going live okay well welcome everybody
we are doing another one-on-one hangout
and this time I have sales expert Dave
curling with me on the line and dave has
been an offer on my website for a number
of years and he wrote a great book on
sales and and he’s a big baseball nut I
am too and so he’s here to join us Dave
welcome to the welcome to the show
thanks for joining in well thanks for
having the oven it’s great to be here do
you want to tell everybody watches a
little bit more about what you’re all
about what you do who you help sure I’m
a baseball fan so it’s only logical that
in 2005 my second book was called
baseline selling which is both sales
process and sales methodology which is
the centerpiece of some of the work I do
we work with companies and help them
grow sales by doing any number of things
from evaluating a sales organization to
building sales processes and
infrastructure and architecture to doing
development training and coaching of
sales leadership to training and
coaching of salespeople and along with
that we help with recruiting and we hope
help with career paths and we help with
skills and if it has anything to do with
the sales organization we do that at
curling on associates and then my other
company objective management group is a
sales assessment company so we have the
leading Salesforce evaluation and sales
candidate assessment tools on the planet
very cool so what’s the biggest problem
people face with sales they don’t sell
enough so how do you have well usually
the problems are in any one of a number
of areas either at the top of the funnel
they’re not finding and getting enough
new opportunities in the middle of the
funnel they’re not getting traction and
engagement velocity or at the end of the
funnel they’re not closing business or
closing it in a an appropriate amount of
time and those problems are usually
caused by each
a non-supportive sales DNA they’ve got
weaknesses that are getting in their way
or its skills strategies and tactics
that they haven’t learned and mastered
and can’t call on at the ideal moment
and then a little bigger picture than
that in many cases the company doesn’t
have a repeatable sales process that
yields consists in effective results so
the first thing we do is try to find out
why they’re struggling and then from
there we can give them the help they
need so if I’m an entrepreneur and I
have a new product I’m trying to get it
out there and I’m struggling to get the
sales that I want I think I have a great
product great service but I’m really
starting to get it out there get the
sales what am I what are my options
what’s the best thing to do should I
invest in myself and become a better
sales person should I hire sales person
come aboard what do you recommend well
it’s a great question because the
entrepreneur needs to make it work
there’s really no option to not grow
sales but not every entrepreneur has the
DNA or the makeup to be effective
selling especially if they’re selling
themselves which is a little harder for
a lot of people than selling a product
or selling a service so that the logical
first step is to evaluate so that we can
take a look at whether the entrepreneur
has the right sales DNA or has some
skill gaps that we can fix and then
determine that it might make more sense
for them to hire a sales person or if
they’ve got the right potential help
them become more effective so talk about
that potential that DNA what are one of
the some of the things that you’ll look
at to figure out young so entrepreneurs
watching this so trying to figure out
okay Dave said I need to have the
salesman DNA how do I figure out if I’ve
got that or not what are some of the
questions that you ask them look there
are six things that that we look for
that help us understand the sales DNA
and in an entrepreneur one of them is
how much they need to be liked the
psychological term would be need for
approval but how much do you need to be
liked and if
you need to be like their love too much
that gets in the way because you won’t
be able to ask the tough question you
won’t be able to confront somebody and
push back and challenge their thinking
and you’ll accept put office all day
long because you’ll be afraid to say the
thing that could get them upset so
that’s one of the areas we look at
another area we look at is how they buy
things themselves we call it by cycle so
an entrepreneur that needs to think
everything over will generally accept
that kind of behavior from a prospect
I’ll let them think it over indefinitely
an entrepreneur that looks for the
lowest price will understand it when
their prospect needs a lower price an
entrepreneur that comparison shops will
understand it when the prospect wants to
compare them to a couple of other
companies an entrepreneur that thinks a
relatively small amount of money is a
lot of money will understand it when a
prospects of tease that seems expensive
so that’s a second piece of DNA a third
piece we look at is how will they
control their emotions whether they can
stay in the moment and if they’re unable
to stay in the moment and they react and
panic they can lose control of the sales
process because they’ll be listening to
themselves instead of their prospect how
do you how do you test that you put them
in a stressful situation no we have we
have these world-class sales assessments
that I developed and continue to develop
and improve over the last 24 years and
they’re very accurate and they tell us
exactly how someone will do in a sales
situation so that’s three examples so
first step is they’re gonna they’re
gonna buy your so how much is your
assessment to assess just themselves it
would be four hundred dollars I’ll say
so they’re going to spend for Nadal’s
and they get this package at then they
get shipped to them or they download it
or what’s the process will email it to
them okay so they fill it out and then
that will tell them if they have the DNA
or not to BS exist that’ll go through
everything relative to the strengths
that they have that’ll support the use
of skills and tactics and strategy
these it’ll identify the weaknesses that
get in the way of those skills and
tactics and strategies and it’ll
identify the gaps in their skills us so
that they’ll see exactly why they’re
struggling whether or not there’s any
hope and what they can do about it and
from there they can either choose to
hire a sales person get some training
get some coaching or ignore it bury
their head in the sand that’s not the
answer so that first one of I need to be
liked right that’s your first part of
the DNA so do sales people need to be
like a good salesperson needs to be
liked is that is that what the times
good ones don’t need to be liked you’re
like okay I’ll need to be like they
they’re generally likable but they don’t
need it it doesn’t validate them they’re
more interested in having someone
respect them or good i love them you
know so you know you can get the love
from a dog right or me or maybe from
your salsa lessons right right right
cool so this is also like a deep
introspective dive into your psyche here
this isn’t just my sales not not so deep
into the psyche only only the part of
the psyche that supports selling okay
and he and need for approval is probably
the only place we go that could be
related to the psyche all right the rest
of it it’s got more to do with bravery
and comfort level that it has to do with
any deep-seated psychological issues got
her okay so i can spend my core in the
box i get my test and i will tell me if
I’m going to be a good salesperson or
not so then for the for the skills part
what are some of the skills that you
find so if I’ve determined okay yeah I
have the DNA to be a salesperson but I’m
not getting my sales here well then it
some of the skills right so then it’s
probably a matter of which skill gaps
are there and a lot of sales people have
top of the funnel skills but they don’t
have the middle and bottom of the funnel
skills so they can find opportunities
but they can’t
Ferengi ate themselves they they aren’t
selling consultative Lee it’s to
transactional so they’re not drawing out
the compelling reasons why somebody
would spend their money with them
instead of with somebody else and
they’re not selling value some of them
don’t have skills in the area of
qualification so they’re not really
finding out whether the opportunities
viable most of them are pretty good at
presenting and talking about their
capabilities and generating proposals
and quotes so it’s the stuff that
happens prior to the presenting and the
demoing it’s it’s consultative selling
and qualifying where most of the skill
gaps are and then there’s a big group of
people that are horrible at the top of
the funnel if they get a prospect on the
phone or they’re communicating via email
or they’re out in the social selling
world they don’t know how to have that
first interaction of that first
conversation that’ll get somebody to
raise their hand say I’m interested in
schedule a first meeting got it oh okay
you know i just got a question from
someone who’s watching on youtube Jason
hero didn’t say hi David Evan love what
I’m hearing Napoleon Hill says we are
all salesmen regardless of our calling
how does this relate the people who
don’t have daves sales DNA well he’s
right napoleon hill did say that but
there’s a difference between convincing
a family member or a friend to go to the
movie or convincing them to choose this
restaurant over that restaurant and
putting money on the table and then
having to convince somebody to choose us
instead of the alternative and pay us
what we want for what we’re trying to
sell them so as soon as money and
competition enters the equation
everything changes can you and so
Jason’s asked them to expand can you
expand on the difference there sure if
if I reach out to you and say hey Evan
how about interviewing me on your video
YouTube channel you say yeah there’s no
money riding on that there’s no win
there’s no loss if it’s good for both of
us will do it on the other hand if I say
hey
Evan would you be interested in paying
me ten thousand dollars for me to appear
on your YouTube video now I’ve added
money into the equation now it’s a tough
decision for you now there may not be
any gain for you but the game might all
be for me so the whole thing has changed
just because we’ve added money okay so
let’s get to so thanks Jason for writing
in I let’s get to that difference you’re
talking about sales people and some
people are good at the top of the funnel
some people aren’t and they have skills
that they’re missing do we is it better
to go and learn those skills at the top
of the funnel or is it better to have
somebody who’s kind of the hunter and
the lead acquisition and then you focus
on the clothes and what would it was
great question great question if you’ve
got the DNA to support it and we talked
about some of that DNA whether or not
they need to be liked and another pieces
whether they can recover from rejection
because rejection is part of selling so
it’s not whether or not they’re going to
get rejected they’re going to get
rejected but how do they react to that
respond to that can they get right back
on the phone or is it take 10 minutes or
10 hours or 10 days or 10 weeks before
they can do it again so how much they
need to be like how they recover from
rejection and how they feel about
picking up the phone and making a call
it goes into whether they can learn to
be good at it so if the DNA supports it
then we can teach him how to do it but
they’ve got to change themselves a
little bit it’s more than words they
need to have the right tonality they
need to sound engaging they need to be
willing to go away from a script it’s a
script at approach without a script so
there’s a process they would need to
follow and they’ve got to get away from
just telling people who they are what
their company is and what they’re
selling and asked to meet with them
they’ve got to take a more scientific
approach so that they can get people’s
attention and get them engaged and learn
the right words to to get their
attention with a positioning statement
so yeah
they can learn it with supportive DNA
but there’s a lot to it which might
explain why so many of them suck so bad
at it so the DNA will tell me fight if I
have the ability to do that first part
yeah you dope then I should hide us
you’re fine I’m fine I mean I didn’t go
through the test I know but I developed
test I already know I’m liking it I’m
liking it okay um let’s talk about your
book so baseline selling it’s it’s a
baseball theme for those who haven’t
seen it is if there’s a you know picture
of baseball players on it how does
baseball relate to this Alan I’m a
baseball fan so I’m curious well there’s
a bunch of need analogies that the
appendix in the back of the book has
about 30 analogies but the two that are
most important is that we can use the
baseball diamond itself as a visual
sales process so you can use the bases
as a way to trace the evolution of the
sales process it goes from suspect to
prospect to qualified to closeable first
base second base third base home and we
can lay out the steps in the milestones
in the sales process on the basepaths
that’s one way it works probably the
coolest place that it works I don’t know
how much time we have you have time for
a five-minute story yeah report okay so
one of the milestones between first and
second base the the part of the sales
process where we’re selling consultative
Lee and trying to differentiate
ourselves we call it sob quality in this
case sob stands for speed on the bases
so you know for watching a baseball game
and the speedster reaches first base the
color analyst says well there’s speed on
the bases so what that ends up meaning
is that everybody in the stadium knows
he’s going to try and steal second so
the pitcher starts to go into defensive
tactics and starts throwing over the
first base to maybe take a step or two
off the lead to show that he’s paying
attention maybe the tire a mug he’s got
a slide and dive back into fur
space every time and eventually he’s got
a pitch to the hitter but the hitter has
an advantage now because he knows a
fastball is coming this is a big gap on
the right side of the infield because
the first baseman’s on first base second
basements come in a bit and over towards
second to take a throw on an attempted
steal and play for a double play so the
the next hitter with great bat control
has an advantage where he knows it’s a
fastball and he’s got the whole right
side of the infield to punch it through
so the the base stealer has changed the
energy of the game and has taken over
the game by getting the picture to pay
more attention to him than the hitter if
we translate that to selling we as
salespeople have developed sob quality
when we get the prospect to pay more
attention to us than all of our
competitors and we do that by building a
better relationship by showing that we
care by showing that we’re listening by
differentiating demonstrating our
expertise and we do all of that by
asking questions asking more questions
better questions tougher questions than
the competition until we’ve had the kind
of conversation with a prospect that
nobody else has ever had with them and
that game-changing differentiating
conversation is the culmination of
developing speed on the bases sob sob
will be I was buried you’re right
exactly I guess a year you know gone
he’s gone he’s been pinstripes now was
the new speedster in Boston uh Jackie
Bradley is replacing Jacoby Ellsbury he
said okay so he’s not as fast as Jacoby
buddies he’s got all the tools of
jacobian now we’ll see how it plays out
at the major league level very and what
about up in Toronto this year is
supposed to have a good team will or
still have a good team last year but
we’ll see what happened guys are
supposed to have a good team every year
I was excited last year with all this
all the trades everything but I don’t
know we’ll see I’m confident yeah you
guys got the same roster from the
Florida Marlins that didn’t succeed with
the Florida Marlins
it’s like digging it in there just again
okay so back on top tip tip to develop
those skills and ask better questions
and develop my sob is it training with
you guys is it going through this
assessment tool is it reading your book
is a combination like how do I so I know
I have a gap in skills how do I get
better well if the evaluation shows that
there are some weaknesses and some skill
gaps then we can do some training or end
or some coaching so what we’re talking
about right now between first and second
base with developing sob that’s that’s
all listening and asking questions and
most salespeople even the good
salespeople are deficient when it comes
to really good listening skills and
being able to ask spontaneous questions
based on what they’re hearing so
training and coaching is the answer to
that and sure you can read the book is
there is era just for everybody watching
is there even example you can go through
or a client wait a minute without naming
names but someone who epitomized that
was not great at listening and it costed
him and how he came and helped them and
how you fix them geez we can probably
point to every client when it comes to
that because as soon as soon as you can
teach sales people or entrepreneurs to
effectively listen and ask questions
everything changes everything changes
the way a prospect looks at you changes
the way they share information with you
changes the amount of time they give you
changes the amount of attention they
give you changes you go from salesperson
or vendor to trusted advisor so you
basically get to the point where they
won’t do anything without talking to you
so in a typical company once we get a
sales force to go through that
transition with a typical entrepreneur
once we get them individually to go
through that transition it can take
several months to develop and master
those skills
we usually see them double their revenue
it’s great it is there is it a mindset
you need to develop is it asking certain
questions I have to believe they must
believe guards it starts with mindset
they have to know that it’s okay they
have to know that they can they have to
know that no one’s going to get upset
with them and tell them to stop asking
questions because a lot of them are
afraid that I can’t ask those questions
I can’t push back I can’t challenge but
that’s how you differentiate yourself by
challenging conventional thinking and
pushing back on something that was said
and asking for explanations and not
having all the answers and until you
identify a problem you can solve and
understand the consequences of that
problem and the impact and can quantify
it and put a dollar amount on it and be
able to share with a prospect so we’re
talking about a 10 million dollar
problem right and that’s a game changer
so to get to that to get to those
problems is there is there a common type
of question a common scenario where
sales people are afraid to push back on
something and they kind of like yeah
doesn’t there say always example they
always think they’ve asked enough
questions they always assume they know
what the problem is they always assume
it’s the same problem that everybody
else has but it’s if they can ask so
tell me a little more about that a
couple of more times and tell me how
that manifests for you but give me an
example of the last time that happened
or when that happened who bore all the
pressure of that who did that impact / t
who else cares about that what do they
say about that so it’s basically the
polite english-language version of more
more MORE okay let me let me shift gears
to I have a question that from an
entrepreneur friend of mine okay he has
a sales guy and they fight over how much
research you need to do before you call
up a fine so
his sales guy hassett he likes to do a
lot of research and look at the website
look at every page understand their
business and my entrepreneur friend is
saying just call them and start a
conversation and they’ll tell everything
you need to know and he gets upset that
a sales guy takes so long it feels like
he could be calling a lot more people if
you didn’t spend so much time
researching what what are you what’s
your advice for that kind of situation
your entrepreneur friend is right just
pick up the phone and call now okay you
need to know enough to know that they’re
an appropriate target that they fit a
profile that they’re in our sweet spot
we need to know if if we solve the kinds
of problems that are relevant to what
they might be in the news for and to
what might be on their website we might
need to know that they have the things
going on that we can help with but but
short of that get on the phone and make
the call or go into your Linkedin
Network and find somebody that can
introduce you to break the ice and lower
the first barrier so that you don’t have
to make a cold call but do it get on it
be nike just do it be nike and believe
and believe you got it that’s right um
what do you recommend for someone who’d
like to get over that fear to call
somebody especially cold calling right
people are just afraid afraid to follow
up afraid to make that first initial
call to how do you get over that fear
you might not that like I said some
people don’t have sales DNA that will
support cold calling and it’s not fair
to ask that person to cold call if in
their DNA they don’t have what it takes
to support doing that all you’re going
to do is just drive them nuts and cause
them to feel bad about themselves
because they’re going to underperform
they’re going to underachieve they’re
going to fail so you’ve got to put them
in a role that they’re better suited for
and if cold calling isn’t what their
best suited for let’s not make them do
it we can’t change their DNA so what you
had a good salesperson like if they’re
not going to cold calling can they still
be and they still do the rest of it they
can
and and they can work with the issue
they can work their customer base for
referrals and introductions if they know
they’re not going to make you know forty
cold calls a day well fine as long as
they can find enough new opportunity
some other way as long as they can do a
few marketing through referrals do
introductions to being out there
speaking engagements do videos just some
way of getting found so they don’t have
to rely on cold calls this is great Dave
I really appreciate all the time today
it’s been great to meet you kind of face
to face so we we’ve emailed back and
forth over the last several years old
times I know this is the first time
we’ve actually spoken that’s great ah
just a wrap-up if people are interested
in learning about your book or they want
to you know get your assessment or they
want to do some coaching or training
with you what’s the best way for people
to find you they can email me the easy
email address is David baseline selling
calm okay I’m all over the web find me
on LinkedIn you can my blog OMG like oh
my god hub hu b.com that the blog is
understanding the sales force OMG is
short for objective management group the
assessment company so OMG hub calm
objective management com Curlin and
associate Curlin associates com google
dave Curlin it when you need to reach me
I’ll be there or of course on your site
right it’s true yeah absolutely true
you’ll find I’m never chemical calm to
thank you so much David really
appreciate all the time thanks for
having me Evan it was great fun her she
good luck
we are doing another one-on-one hangout
and this time I have sales expert Dave
curling with me on the line and dave has
been an offer on my website for a number
of years and he wrote a great book on
sales and and he’s a big baseball nut I
am too and so he’s here to join us Dave
welcome to the welcome to the show
thanks for joining in well thanks for
having the oven it’s great to be here do
you want to tell everybody watches a
little bit more about what you’re all
about what you do who you help sure I’m
a baseball fan so it’s only logical that
in 2005 my second book was called
baseline selling which is both sales
process and sales methodology which is
the centerpiece of some of the work I do
we work with companies and help them
grow sales by doing any number of things
from evaluating a sales organization to
building sales processes and
infrastructure and architecture to doing
development training and coaching of
sales leadership to training and
coaching of salespeople and along with
that we help with recruiting and we hope
help with career paths and we help with
skills and if it has anything to do with
the sales organization we do that at
curling on associates and then my other
company objective management group is a
sales assessment company so we have the
leading Salesforce evaluation and sales
candidate assessment tools on the planet
very cool so what’s the biggest problem
people face with sales they don’t sell
enough so how do you have well usually
the problems are in any one of a number
of areas either at the top of the funnel
they’re not finding and getting enough
new opportunities in the middle of the
funnel they’re not getting traction and
engagement velocity or at the end of the
funnel they’re not closing business or
closing it in a an appropriate amount of
time and those problems are usually
caused by each
a non-supportive sales DNA they’ve got
weaknesses that are getting in their way
or its skills strategies and tactics
that they haven’t learned and mastered
and can’t call on at the ideal moment
and then a little bigger picture than
that in many cases the company doesn’t
have a repeatable sales process that
yields consists in effective results so
the first thing we do is try to find out
why they’re struggling and then from
there we can give them the help they
need so if I’m an entrepreneur and I
have a new product I’m trying to get it
out there and I’m struggling to get the
sales that I want I think I have a great
product great service but I’m really
starting to get it out there get the
sales what am I what are my options
what’s the best thing to do should I
invest in myself and become a better
sales person should I hire sales person
come aboard what do you recommend well
it’s a great question because the
entrepreneur needs to make it work
there’s really no option to not grow
sales but not every entrepreneur has the
DNA or the makeup to be effective
selling especially if they’re selling
themselves which is a little harder for
a lot of people than selling a product
or selling a service so that the logical
first step is to evaluate so that we can
take a look at whether the entrepreneur
has the right sales DNA or has some
skill gaps that we can fix and then
determine that it might make more sense
for them to hire a sales person or if
they’ve got the right potential help
them become more effective so talk about
that potential that DNA what are one of
the some of the things that you’ll look
at to figure out young so entrepreneurs
watching this so trying to figure out
okay Dave said I need to have the
salesman DNA how do I figure out if I’ve
got that or not what are some of the
questions that you ask them look there
are six things that that we look for
that help us understand the sales DNA
and in an entrepreneur one of them is
how much they need to be liked the
psychological term would be need for
approval but how much do you need to be
liked and if
you need to be like their love too much
that gets in the way because you won’t
be able to ask the tough question you
won’t be able to confront somebody and
push back and challenge their thinking
and you’ll accept put office all day
long because you’ll be afraid to say the
thing that could get them upset so
that’s one of the areas we look at
another area we look at is how they buy
things themselves we call it by cycle so
an entrepreneur that needs to think
everything over will generally accept
that kind of behavior from a prospect
I’ll let them think it over indefinitely
an entrepreneur that looks for the
lowest price will understand it when
their prospect needs a lower price an
entrepreneur that comparison shops will
understand it when the prospect wants to
compare them to a couple of other
companies an entrepreneur that thinks a
relatively small amount of money is a
lot of money will understand it when a
prospects of tease that seems expensive
so that’s a second piece of DNA a third
piece we look at is how will they
control their emotions whether they can
stay in the moment and if they’re unable
to stay in the moment and they react and
panic they can lose control of the sales
process because they’ll be listening to
themselves instead of their prospect how
do you how do you test that you put them
in a stressful situation no we have we
have these world-class sales assessments
that I developed and continue to develop
and improve over the last 24 years and
they’re very accurate and they tell us
exactly how someone will do in a sales
situation so that’s three examples so
first step is they’re gonna they’re
gonna buy your so how much is your
assessment to assess just themselves it
would be four hundred dollars I’ll say
so they’re going to spend for Nadal’s
and they get this package at then they
get shipped to them or they download it
or what’s the process will email it to
them okay so they fill it out and then
that will tell them if they have the DNA
or not to BS exist that’ll go through
everything relative to the strengths
that they have that’ll support the use
of skills and tactics and strategy
these it’ll identify the weaknesses that
get in the way of those skills and
tactics and strategies and it’ll
identify the gaps in their skills us so
that they’ll see exactly why they’re
struggling whether or not there’s any
hope and what they can do about it and
from there they can either choose to
hire a sales person get some training
get some coaching or ignore it bury
their head in the sand that’s not the
answer so that first one of I need to be
liked right that’s your first part of
the DNA so do sales people need to be
like a good salesperson needs to be
liked is that is that what the times
good ones don’t need to be liked you’re
like okay I’ll need to be like they
they’re generally likable but they don’t
need it it doesn’t validate them they’re
more interested in having someone
respect them or good i love them you
know so you know you can get the love
from a dog right or me or maybe from
your salsa lessons right right right
cool so this is also like a deep
introspective dive into your psyche here
this isn’t just my sales not not so deep
into the psyche only only the part of
the psyche that supports selling okay
and he and need for approval is probably
the only place we go that could be
related to the psyche all right the rest
of it it’s got more to do with bravery
and comfort level that it has to do with
any deep-seated psychological issues got
her okay so i can spend my core in the
box i get my test and i will tell me if
I’m going to be a good salesperson or
not so then for the for the skills part
what are some of the skills that you
find so if I’ve determined okay yeah I
have the DNA to be a salesperson but I’m
not getting my sales here well then it
some of the skills right so then it’s
probably a matter of which skill gaps
are there and a lot of sales people have
top of the funnel skills but they don’t
have the middle and bottom of the funnel
skills so they can find opportunities
but they can’t
Ferengi ate themselves they they aren’t
selling consultative Lee it’s to
transactional so they’re not drawing out
the compelling reasons why somebody
would spend their money with them
instead of with somebody else and
they’re not selling value some of them
don’t have skills in the area of
qualification so they’re not really
finding out whether the opportunities
viable most of them are pretty good at
presenting and talking about their
capabilities and generating proposals
and quotes so it’s the stuff that
happens prior to the presenting and the
demoing it’s it’s consultative selling
and qualifying where most of the skill
gaps are and then there’s a big group of
people that are horrible at the top of
the funnel if they get a prospect on the
phone or they’re communicating via email
or they’re out in the social selling
world they don’t know how to have that
first interaction of that first
conversation that’ll get somebody to
raise their hand say I’m interested in
schedule a first meeting got it oh okay
you know i just got a question from
someone who’s watching on youtube Jason
hero didn’t say hi David Evan love what
I’m hearing Napoleon Hill says we are
all salesmen regardless of our calling
how does this relate the people who
don’t have daves sales DNA well he’s
right napoleon hill did say that but
there’s a difference between convincing
a family member or a friend to go to the
movie or convincing them to choose this
restaurant over that restaurant and
putting money on the table and then
having to convince somebody to choose us
instead of the alternative and pay us
what we want for what we’re trying to
sell them so as soon as money and
competition enters the equation
everything changes can you and so
Jason’s asked them to expand can you
expand on the difference there sure if
if I reach out to you and say hey Evan
how about interviewing me on your video
YouTube channel you say yeah there’s no
money riding on that there’s no win
there’s no loss if it’s good for both of
us will do it on the other hand if I say
hey
Evan would you be interested in paying
me ten thousand dollars for me to appear
on your YouTube video now I’ve added
money into the equation now it’s a tough
decision for you now there may not be
any gain for you but the game might all
be for me so the whole thing has changed
just because we’ve added money okay so
let’s get to so thanks Jason for writing
in I let’s get to that difference you’re
talking about sales people and some
people are good at the top of the funnel
some people aren’t and they have skills
that they’re missing do we is it better
to go and learn those skills at the top
of the funnel or is it better to have
somebody who’s kind of the hunter and
the lead acquisition and then you focus
on the clothes and what would it was
great question great question if you’ve
got the DNA to support it and we talked
about some of that DNA whether or not
they need to be liked and another pieces
whether they can recover from rejection
because rejection is part of selling so
it’s not whether or not they’re going to
get rejected they’re going to get
rejected but how do they react to that
respond to that can they get right back
on the phone or is it take 10 minutes or
10 hours or 10 days or 10 weeks before
they can do it again so how much they
need to be like how they recover from
rejection and how they feel about
picking up the phone and making a call
it goes into whether they can learn to
be good at it so if the DNA supports it
then we can teach him how to do it but
they’ve got to change themselves a
little bit it’s more than words they
need to have the right tonality they
need to sound engaging they need to be
willing to go away from a script it’s a
script at approach without a script so
there’s a process they would need to
follow and they’ve got to get away from
just telling people who they are what
their company is and what they’re
selling and asked to meet with them
they’ve got to take a more scientific
approach so that they can get people’s
attention and get them engaged and learn
the right words to to get their
attention with a positioning statement
so yeah
they can learn it with supportive DNA
but there’s a lot to it which might
explain why so many of them suck so bad
at it so the DNA will tell me fight if I
have the ability to do that first part
yeah you dope then I should hide us
you’re fine I’m fine I mean I didn’t go
through the test I know but I developed
test I already know I’m liking it I’m
liking it okay um let’s talk about your
book so baseline selling it’s it’s a
baseball theme for those who haven’t
seen it is if there’s a you know picture
of baseball players on it how does
baseball relate to this Alan I’m a
baseball fan so I’m curious well there’s
a bunch of need analogies that the
appendix in the back of the book has
about 30 analogies but the two that are
most important is that we can use the
baseball diamond itself as a visual
sales process so you can use the bases
as a way to trace the evolution of the
sales process it goes from suspect to
prospect to qualified to closeable first
base second base third base home and we
can lay out the steps in the milestones
in the sales process on the basepaths
that’s one way it works probably the
coolest place that it works I don’t know
how much time we have you have time for
a five-minute story yeah report okay so
one of the milestones between first and
second base the the part of the sales
process where we’re selling consultative
Lee and trying to differentiate
ourselves we call it sob quality in this
case sob stands for speed on the bases
so you know for watching a baseball game
and the speedster reaches first base the
color analyst says well there’s speed on
the bases so what that ends up meaning
is that everybody in the stadium knows
he’s going to try and steal second so
the pitcher starts to go into defensive
tactics and starts throwing over the
first base to maybe take a step or two
off the lead to show that he’s paying
attention maybe the tire a mug he’s got
a slide and dive back into fur
space every time and eventually he’s got
a pitch to the hitter but the hitter has
an advantage now because he knows a
fastball is coming this is a big gap on
the right side of the infield because
the first baseman’s on first base second
basements come in a bit and over towards
second to take a throw on an attempted
steal and play for a double play so the
the next hitter with great bat control
has an advantage where he knows it’s a
fastball and he’s got the whole right
side of the infield to punch it through
so the the base stealer has changed the
energy of the game and has taken over
the game by getting the picture to pay
more attention to him than the hitter if
we translate that to selling we as
salespeople have developed sob quality
when we get the prospect to pay more
attention to us than all of our
competitors and we do that by building a
better relationship by showing that we
care by showing that we’re listening by
differentiating demonstrating our
expertise and we do all of that by
asking questions asking more questions
better questions tougher questions than
the competition until we’ve had the kind
of conversation with a prospect that
nobody else has ever had with them and
that game-changing differentiating
conversation is the culmination of
developing speed on the bases sob sob
will be I was buried you’re right
exactly I guess a year you know gone
he’s gone he’s been pinstripes now was
the new speedster in Boston uh Jackie
Bradley is replacing Jacoby Ellsbury he
said okay so he’s not as fast as Jacoby
buddies he’s got all the tools of
jacobian now we’ll see how it plays out
at the major league level very and what
about up in Toronto this year is
supposed to have a good team will or
still have a good team last year but
we’ll see what happened guys are
supposed to have a good team every year
I was excited last year with all this
all the trades everything but I don’t
know we’ll see I’m confident yeah you
guys got the same roster from the
Florida Marlins that didn’t succeed with
the Florida Marlins
it’s like digging it in there just again
okay so back on top tip tip to develop
those skills and ask better questions
and develop my sob is it training with
you guys is it going through this
assessment tool is it reading your book
is a combination like how do I so I know
I have a gap in skills how do I get
better well if the evaluation shows that
there are some weaknesses and some skill
gaps then we can do some training or end
or some coaching so what we’re talking
about right now between first and second
base with developing sob that’s that’s
all listening and asking questions and
most salespeople even the good
salespeople are deficient when it comes
to really good listening skills and
being able to ask spontaneous questions
based on what they’re hearing so
training and coaching is the answer to
that and sure you can read the book is
there is era just for everybody watching
is there even example you can go through
or a client wait a minute without naming
names but someone who epitomized that
was not great at listening and it costed
him and how he came and helped them and
how you fix them geez we can probably
point to every client when it comes to
that because as soon as soon as you can
teach sales people or entrepreneurs to
effectively listen and ask questions
everything changes everything changes
the way a prospect looks at you changes
the way they share information with you
changes the amount of time they give you
changes the amount of attention they
give you changes you go from salesperson
or vendor to trusted advisor so you
basically get to the point where they
won’t do anything without talking to you
so in a typical company once we get a
sales force to go through that
transition with a typical entrepreneur
once we get them individually to go
through that transition it can take
several months to develop and master
those skills
we usually see them double their revenue
it’s great it is there is it a mindset
you need to develop is it asking certain
questions I have to believe they must
believe guards it starts with mindset
they have to know that it’s okay they
have to know that they can they have to
know that no one’s going to get upset
with them and tell them to stop asking
questions because a lot of them are
afraid that I can’t ask those questions
I can’t push back I can’t challenge but
that’s how you differentiate yourself by
challenging conventional thinking and
pushing back on something that was said
and asking for explanations and not
having all the answers and until you
identify a problem you can solve and
understand the consequences of that
problem and the impact and can quantify
it and put a dollar amount on it and be
able to share with a prospect so we’re
talking about a 10 million dollar
problem right and that’s a game changer
so to get to that to get to those
problems is there is there a common type
of question a common scenario where
sales people are afraid to push back on
something and they kind of like yeah
doesn’t there say always example they
always think they’ve asked enough
questions they always assume they know
what the problem is they always assume
it’s the same problem that everybody
else has but it’s if they can ask so
tell me a little more about that a
couple of more times and tell me how
that manifests for you but give me an
example of the last time that happened
or when that happened who bore all the
pressure of that who did that impact / t
who else cares about that what do they
say about that so it’s basically the
polite english-language version of more
more MORE okay let me let me shift gears
to I have a question that from an
entrepreneur friend of mine okay he has
a sales guy and they fight over how much
research you need to do before you call
up a fine so
his sales guy hassett he likes to do a
lot of research and look at the website
look at every page understand their
business and my entrepreneur friend is
saying just call them and start a
conversation and they’ll tell everything
you need to know and he gets upset that
a sales guy takes so long it feels like
he could be calling a lot more people if
you didn’t spend so much time
researching what what are you what’s
your advice for that kind of situation
your entrepreneur friend is right just
pick up the phone and call now okay you
need to know enough to know that they’re
an appropriate target that they fit a
profile that they’re in our sweet spot
we need to know if if we solve the kinds
of problems that are relevant to what
they might be in the news for and to
what might be on their website we might
need to know that they have the things
going on that we can help with but but
short of that get on the phone and make
the call or go into your Linkedin
Network and find somebody that can
introduce you to break the ice and lower
the first barrier so that you don’t have
to make a cold call but do it get on it
be nike just do it be nike and believe
and believe you got it that’s right um
what do you recommend for someone who’d
like to get over that fear to call
somebody especially cold calling right
people are just afraid afraid to follow
up afraid to make that first initial
call to how do you get over that fear
you might not that like I said some
people don’t have sales DNA that will
support cold calling and it’s not fair
to ask that person to cold call if in
their DNA they don’t have what it takes
to support doing that all you’re going
to do is just drive them nuts and cause
them to feel bad about themselves
because they’re going to underperform
they’re going to underachieve they’re
going to fail so you’ve got to put them
in a role that they’re better suited for
and if cold calling isn’t what their
best suited for let’s not make them do
it we can’t change their DNA so what you
had a good salesperson like if they’re
not going to cold calling can they still
be and they still do the rest of it they
can
and and they can work with the issue
they can work their customer base for
referrals and introductions if they know
they’re not going to make you know forty
cold calls a day well fine as long as
they can find enough new opportunity
some other way as long as they can do a
few marketing through referrals do
introductions to being out there
speaking engagements do videos just some
way of getting found so they don’t have
to rely on cold calls this is great Dave
I really appreciate all the time today
it’s been great to meet you kind of face
to face so we we’ve emailed back and
forth over the last several years old
times I know this is the first time
we’ve actually spoken that’s great ah
just a wrap-up if people are interested
in learning about your book or they want
to you know get your assessment or they
want to do some coaching or training
with you what’s the best way for people
to find you they can email me the easy
email address is David baseline selling
calm okay I’m all over the web find me
on LinkedIn you can my blog OMG like oh
my god hub hu b.com that the blog is
understanding the sales force OMG is
short for objective management group the
assessment company so OMG hub calm
objective management com Curlin and
associate Curlin associates com google
dave Curlin it when you need to reach me
I’ll be there or of course on your site
right it’s true yeah absolutely true
you’ll find I’m never chemical calm to
thank you so much David really
appreciate all the time thanks for
having me Evan it was great fun her she
good luck
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