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Shouldn’t countries be required to follow the law | Mudra Kashyap | TEDxCanadianIntlSchool


hi everyone I’m so glad that we have

such a vibrant audience tonight I’ve

heard some great things backstage so I

want to get to know this audience myself

you know I think it’s really important

for a presenter and her audience to know

each other so let’s start with a few

icebreaker questions I’ll ask you some

stuff and you raise your hand when you’d

like to answer all right so let’s start

with something simple gentle let’s ease

into it how many people have broken a

law today okay we have a few daring

individuals so let’s let’s think about

this in terms of the theme of this event

how many people well how many of you do

you think will break the law in the next

10 years raise your hand if you think

you will okay at least we have an honest

crowd let’s put a number to this feeling

how many times do you think you will

break the law in the next 10 years okay

I’ll say a few numbers and you raise

your hand when it’s applicable you’ll

break zero loss in the next ten years

great I love that okay ten laws a

hundred a thousand ten thousand more a

huge number okay okay I see you okay all

right

well according to Harvey silver gate the

average person will break three laws

every single day which amounts to around

eleven thousand laws per person over the

next 10 years and that’s an astounding

figure I mean most people didn’t even

think they broke a lot today so that

what what does that say about us I mean

is it that we’re horrible people because

then I’m really glad that I’m on stage a

little bit safe and you guys can just

like sort yourselves out but yeah he

thinks it’s because that people just

aren’t aware that these laws apply in

this particular circumstance or that

they’re unaware of why this rise

relevant so that doesn’t say anything

bad about us however there’s somebody

else who has to follow the law and if

this person follows the law it actually

has a lot of impact on our lives

can you think about who this person is

feel free to shout it out hint hint

this person follows international law

anyone yep

countries countries have to follow a lot

they follow international law so how

does the country how do countries

compared to the average citizen do you

think they follow more laws an equal

amount or less raise your hand do you

think they’ve break more laws than the

average citizen

okay well this audience has no faith in

humanity that’s what we’ve established

tonight how do you how many people think

that they break an equal amount okay how

many people think that countries are

very law-abiding they do what they’re

supposed to do they’re way better off

than us okay we get a few more hand

raised actually this minority crowd is

the right one according to Louie hencken

almost all nations observe almost all

principles of international law and

almost all of their political

obligations almost all of the time so he

actually suggests a really great future

he’s saying that we’re living in a in

the prime of when international law is

abided by and there’s an amazing culture

but when somebody says almost that much

I think it raises a few flags because

that implies said there are instances

when laws are broken and as we know when

countries break laws it’s not just one

person that’s involved it’s entire

nations

it’s huge populations so the reality is

is that countries break laws and they do

so not because like us they don’t know

laws apply

I mean countries have lots of advisors

at their disposal

clearly they’re doing so intentionally

countries break laws when it’s prudent

and they follow them they break them

whenever it’s convenient which is

something that will weigh down on our

future because in the next ten years

we’re gonna be forced to cooperate as a

species we’re gonna have to deal with

issues like climate change

technological advancement

humanitarianism and these are not solved

in isolation

these are solved together as an

international community and that can’t

happen if we’re violating trust that

can’t happen if we’re breaking

international law whenever one feels

it’s more convenient for the other and

forcing everybody else into a horrible

future so what do we do how do we choose

to follow or not follow international

law because these kind of things they

happen far away from us we’re really far

from these decisions when they’re made

so what do we do I mean actually we’re

not that far from these decisions raise

your hand if you’ve read a newspaper

headline in just as far as you can

remember that reads something like blank

blank country is in violation of blank

convention or blank country is in

violation of blank treaty blank country

violates blank and turn ICJ ruling

have you seen stuff like this before

yeah we’ve all seen it and do you really

own does anybody in this room think

about why countries do those things do

we think about the consequences this has

for a future because our opinion matters

our opinion shapes what the what our

world leaders think about it shapes how

we as a culture think about

international law because the reality is

is that we’re one of the few generations

that have ever had to think about

international law international law is

very new and it’s but it’s very relevant

to our future so today let’s think about

international law let’s solve this

problem let’s walk out all knowing how

to read headlines and how to think about

what our respective countries do so

let’s think let’s let’s start with

something chill it start with something

easy something we’re all familiar with

gratitude I want you to think about it

who are you grateful for start listing

it think your mom your dad your

wonderful teachers you know lots of

people we’re grateful for lots of people

so when you’re making this list do you

include your country in that list do you

include your fellow countrymen your

government do they make it onto your

list raise your hand if yes okay yes

that’s the response I was looking for

don’t think about it but it’s actually

not it’s it might be we should be

thinking about this kind of stuff

because actually Socrates we all know

Greek philosopher when he was sentenced

to death by a jury he chose to follow

that ruling he chose to he chose to die

because he said one of the reasons at

least that he said was he’s grateful to

his countrymen he owes it to them to do

this but we don’t have those feelings

should we should we have these feelings

according to gratitude theory if you

have benefited from someone then you or

you should be grateful to them and

because you are grateful you have an

obligation to them and if you have an

obligation to someone you should act in

their interests you should not do

anything that hurts them so if we apply

this to international law if you as a

person or if you as a country have

benefited from international law then

you have an obligation to service the

international community you have an

obligation to follow international law

and keep to your word and help foster a

productive environment but is is that

the whole picture I mean is everybody in

the crowd convinced everyone’s gonna go

home be like yes I should be grateful

I’m gonna follow every law there is on

the planet no okay well I see that the

audience is not convinced and for good

reason because gratitude usually stems

from sacrifice when someone sacrifice

something for us that is when we feel

grateful because we know that something

has been given up for us to accomplish

these things well the international

community doesn’t necessarily make

sacrifices for one specific country we

don’t necessarily an entire nation

cannot feel grateful so this theory

actually fails to give us a good role

model for the next 10 years but what it

does do effectively is give us an

emotional response it connects us

emotionally to international law and

makes it seem less distant more personal

to us but where this theory leaves off

others pick up we have another one this

theory feels that what why do you think

why do you think laws are created what

is the purpose of laws is it a

to feel to help humanity is it be fill

in the options guys you’re creatives

fill in these options it’s actually a

it’s a most people think that countries

countries create laws to benefit people

right that’s when we think about the UN

the UN is actually meeting right now we

think that wow we’re making progress as

humanity we’re accomplishing things and

that’s that’s our hope and so and so

some scholars argue that we should

follow international law because this is

an amazing goal we should help follow

laws that help accomplish these goals

and while this is the ideal version it’s

not the reality the reality is is that

international law is still largely

dictated by more powerful wealthy

countries and so international law and

treaties favor certain states and not

others other states have to compromise

some of their agency in order to follow

international law so this doesn’t

actually explain why we should follow

international life it’s not helping us

but that’s okay but this theory does

tell us is that we have to look to a

role we have to look to a future we have

to think about the models of why we are

following international law it’s not as

simple as what the lies accomplishing

today it’s about what the law is telling

us and what moral reactions we have to

law in the future but we have one final

theory that helps explain where this

theory also leaves off um the third is

no name I like to call it the

cooperative theory to make myself feel

better

um but yeah what this theory states is

that international law shouldn’t be

followed for the merit of oh I’m

following this law because this is what

it’s accomplishing and this is the

reasons as to what its resulting in no

it argues that the whole point of

international law the whole point of

following international law is that it

creates a culture of cooperation it

creates a culture in which countries

enter more multilateral instead of

bilateral treaties it creates a culture

in which countries are accountable for

the laws they make because they will be

required to upkeep them it creates a

culture in which accountability

increases and thereby creates a society

in which our futures are better looked

after

so ultimately none of these theories

actually help paint the whole picture

and this is true because it’s called the

problem of political obligation today

the academic community doesn’t have a

single answer for you and I as to why we

should follow the law but still you and

I do it we follow laws because we think

there’s some merit to it right and this

is the discussion we have to have with

international law the answer isn’t out

there for us it’s an answer that we have

to develop individually because that’s

just how it is

we aren’t necessarily taught in school

that you should follow law because of

these in these theories we do it because

it’s an organic feeling that develops

it’s a culture we’ve decided on a

society because we’ve had laws for all

these years and that is the conversation

we have to have today if we’re going to

have a culture of international

cooperation in the future so when

everyone goes home and everyone sees a

new headline set says blank person has

violated international law think about

not Oh what is this amounting to right

now think about why they should have

followed or not followed international

law in the next ten years and what

that’s gonna say for you and I thank you [Applause]

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