I’d like to tell you a story that’s what
I’d like to do so last week a colleague
of mine called Chris who I’ve been
working with for about four weeks he
came to see me because he had this
problem and he wanted to talk it through
let me give you a bit of background
Chris is a team leader and he has eight
people in this team including him and
the team the way the team works is that
they get to appoint their leaders on a
sort of regular basis I guess and what
he what he was struggling with is that
they had been going through protocols
and procedures around teams and how how
people would come in to work and whether
they would be laid and what would happen
and all these kind of things anyway he
found that he was just beating his head
against a brick wall I guess so he
wanted to talk and this is a little bit
how the conversation kind of went he
sort of said to me I’m really struggling
with the balance between leading and
managing I’m used to just knowing
exactly what happens and then sometimes
I like delegate activities and then the
work just gets done but in this case
that’s not working
hmm what do you think’s going on I said
I’m really not very empathetic I really
don’t understand how people work and
because of that I don’t really know why
they’re doing what they’re doing I’m
really frustrated so what are you gonna
do I said and he said well I think I I
need to talk with them and I want to
take out the people who I don’t know
very well I want to take them out for
coffee and I want to find out what makes
them tick because if I can understand
them then I’ll be able to see their
point of view and if I can see their
point of view I’ll be less judgmental
interesting I said what else I need to
be silent more in meetings because I’m
the first person to answer and if I
answer nobody else speaks so what I
really need to do is give them a space
to voice now I don’t know about you but
I’ve had conversations like this with
people all through my working careers
have you with colleagues
yeah what’s maybe more surprising and
interesting about this is that Chris is
19 years old and he’s a student and he
and his other 17 members first met each
other four weeks ago when they joined as
first year’s on our business team
entrepreneurship program which runs at
Bishop gross test University now the
program itself is based on a model
called Team Academy
timmi Academy from Finland and there are
Team Academy programs all over the world
and in fact in the UK there are another
four universities that run Timmy Academy
our style programs so ours is not unique
interestingly there’s something about
the way in which these programs enable
young people to have complex and really
challenging conversations with each
other because Chris’s ability to be
deeply self reflective is not unique to
him it’s something that I’ve noticed
with all the students and we call them
team entrepreneurs that I’ve met across
a number of different team academies in
the seven years that I’ve been working
with this kind of model and
interestingly at the moment all of these
team entrepreneurs are based in business
schools or faculty faculties of business
in in higher education so what is it
about the program that makes it enable
people to have these kind of complex
conversations there’s a term called
heutagogy and interestingly all team
entrepreneur programs are built around
the idea that team entrepreneurs have
the capacity and the capability to
determine for themselves their own
learning destiny so what this actually
means is they write the curriculum they
decide what they’re going to learn they
decide when they’re gonna learn it and
how they’re going to do that they are
truly leaders of their learning journey
heutagogy is all about
self-determination and it’s all about
being autonomous and actually learning
about learning how do we do that so the
interesting thing here is it’s really
taken traction in the world of distance
learning and in a technologically savvy
and globally connected world I guess
it’s hardly surprising because does it
make more sense to be working here ago
giclee than it does to be desk-bound
I would say that anyone has the
capability of engaging with this kind of
learning approach regardless of what
you’re doing and how you’re doing it but
there is a massive leap to make because
our current education system formalized
education system has a traditional base
that’s basically not really necessarily
preparing people to really truly think
for themselves
Nataly caning put this in a really
interesting way when she was trying to
explain the difference between pedagogy
and heutagogy so in schools you have
pedagogy
and pedagogy is the instruction of
learning so learners come in and are fed
information and in lots of schools they
do lots of other exciting things too but
essentially the curriculum is controlled
by national outcomes things that they
have to achieve so the learning is
instruction lead next along you have
andragogy and this is all about learning
by doing you connect through the
learning and it cultivates an
understanding of the learning because
you’re doing something but there’s still
quite a lot of direction there hyouta
gaji is at the other end of the scale it
is utterly self led the the desire and
the thing that you are going to learn
doesn’t come from an outside source it
comes from within you as the learner now
this poses a lot of difficulty for
people trying to make the transition
from a pedagogical proach to learning to
something that is heutagogy cool because
if you want to make that leap students
who engage in a team entrepreneur
program have to be able to communicate
and connect with lots of other people
they have to be able to work with a team
and inner team they also have to be able
to understand how to identify and seek
opportunities for those kinds of
collaborations to occur and it’s not
easy there are many ways that you can
develop tools to help support people in
a huge odjick approach and in our
program we do this we work together team
becomes the construct that we use in
order to make these kind of connections
they have to work together as part of a
team which means they have to learn how
to communicate to negotiate to
understand and there’s a level of
interdependence that is required because
they have to know that who I am and what
I do does not just impact on me it
impacts on everybody around me as well
we coach and we don’t teach and this is
a different way of thinking there are no
taught inputs at all so students are
coached through the process of learning
through supportive challenge learning is
pulled from them by their peers and then
we don’t push learning back in so it’s a
different way of thinking there is no
timetable in terms of structured
activity so immediately team
entrepreneurs are placed into a period
of uncertainty and ambiguity in fact
chaos prevails it’s wonderful but what
it means is that right away they have to
get together as a team in order to gain
any kind of control over the situation
and it’s not an easy thing to do we also
play play is essential for life but it’s
also essential for innovating and
creative ideas through play physically
your body actually opens up blood rushes
through your body if you’re doing
warm-ups and exercises and it enables
you to think differently it’s fun as
well and there has to be joy and lastly
we look at William Isaac’s the idea of
dialogue this thing about thinking
together in dialogue we work on the
principle that people need to suspend
their own judgement in order to truly
respectfully listen to what they’re
hearing other people say and in the
listening when they do finally voice
they’re building on the idea of the team
entrepreneur that spoke before them
rather than disregarding it sounds like
utopia yeah paradise but there are
serious challenges here for us first one
being that making that leap between
pedagogy and heutagogy is extremely hard
and very painful for lots of people
coaching is also incredibly emotionally
exhausting having been an educator for
20-plus years I know
that a teacher can pretty much track the
the sort of way a lesson is going to
work whereas a coach comp we have to be
utterly at the service of the team that
we are coaching so we have to follow
their ebb and flow all the time being
acutely aware of where’s the learning
going here what are they missing how can
I challenge with a useful question and
education is also fast becoming a
commodity the idea that you pay me and I
teach you would kind of indicate that
the student has no responsibility after
that transaction and yet that is not
true and nor should it be
I believe fundamentally that this kind
of model of approach enables us to
really look at how learners can lead
themselves into the future it’s a bit
like that analogy of if you fit your own
oxygen mask first before you fit
somebody else’s then you will be okay
and it’s the same with this what are we
teaching young people about their
ability to lead themselves regardless of
the subject discipline I’d like to leave
you with going back to Chris because he
was still trying to wrestle with this
dynamic and he spoke to another two or
three team entrepreneurs who’d been the
leadership situations they very kindly
let me video some of what they were
talking about and I want to leave you
with this question
which is really how could we
revolutionize the way that we think
about talk about feel about and act
about leadership if we allowed our
learners for today to just lead
themselves I think the way that in fact
me was not behind the football in the
talk of behavior things
but when you see lately set by being
agree with a lot of boys and anything
it kind of makes you feel like fill out
the circle another place kills is how do
you separate yeah yeah hot like trying
to be still a teen number and still bond
with you team that’s a species
yeah I’m finding it hard like people I
want to feel like so many same as
everyone else and as team leader a
minute people looking to me for guidance
but people like the other day we were in
a session I challenged to stay silent
for the entire session and the first
thing the grass was right hard you wanna
come up this session and every wonder
stern words that mean I have to sit
there in complete silence which I found
by the
there’s no real British butcher – you’re
not solving the same my intention pushed
in the right direction find out things
for yourself as opposed to it’s almost
though it’s like here in the team you
when you find an issue you will bring
the team into it like you’re a group
work that’s no degree the first
gathering is quite selfish you just want
your your thing to do well or is here
you’ve got to support each other you
have to think yeah is a big sport not
just in your attitudes with
thank you
I’d like to do so last week a colleague
of mine called Chris who I’ve been
working with for about four weeks he
came to see me because he had this
problem and he wanted to talk it through
let me give you a bit of background
Chris is a team leader and he has eight
people in this team including him and
the team the way the team works is that
they get to appoint their leaders on a
sort of regular basis I guess and what
he what he was struggling with is that
they had been going through protocols
and procedures around teams and how how
people would come in to work and whether
they would be laid and what would happen
and all these kind of things anyway he
found that he was just beating his head
against a brick wall I guess so he
wanted to talk and this is a little bit
how the conversation kind of went he
sort of said to me I’m really struggling
with the balance between leading and
managing I’m used to just knowing
exactly what happens and then sometimes
I like delegate activities and then the
work just gets done but in this case
that’s not working
hmm what do you think’s going on I said
I’m really not very empathetic I really
don’t understand how people work and
because of that I don’t really know why
they’re doing what they’re doing I’m
really frustrated so what are you gonna
do I said and he said well I think I I
need to talk with them and I want to
take out the people who I don’t know
very well I want to take them out for
coffee and I want to find out what makes
them tick because if I can understand
them then I’ll be able to see their
point of view and if I can see their
point of view I’ll be less judgmental
interesting I said what else I need to
be silent more in meetings because I’m
the first person to answer and if I
answer nobody else speaks so what I
really need to do is give them a space
to voice now I don’t know about you but
I’ve had conversations like this with
people all through my working careers
have you with colleagues
yeah what’s maybe more surprising and
interesting about this is that Chris is
19 years old and he’s a student and he
and his other 17 members first met each
other four weeks ago when they joined as
first year’s on our business team
entrepreneurship program which runs at
Bishop gross test University now the
program itself is based on a model
called Team Academy
timmi Academy from Finland and there are
Team Academy programs all over the world
and in fact in the UK there are another
four universities that run Timmy Academy
our style programs so ours is not unique
interestingly there’s something about
the way in which these programs enable
young people to have complex and really
challenging conversations with each
other because Chris’s ability to be
deeply self reflective is not unique to
him it’s something that I’ve noticed
with all the students and we call them
team entrepreneurs that I’ve met across
a number of different team academies in
the seven years that I’ve been working
with this kind of model and
interestingly at the moment all of these
team entrepreneurs are based in business
schools or faculty faculties of business
in in higher education so what is it
about the program that makes it enable
people to have these kind of complex
conversations there’s a term called
heutagogy and interestingly all team
entrepreneur programs are built around
the idea that team entrepreneurs have
the capacity and the capability to
determine for themselves their own
learning destiny so what this actually
means is they write the curriculum they
decide what they’re going to learn they
decide when they’re gonna learn it and
how they’re going to do that they are
truly leaders of their learning journey
heutagogy is all about
self-determination and it’s all about
being autonomous and actually learning
about learning how do we do that so the
interesting thing here is it’s really
taken traction in the world of distance
learning and in a technologically savvy
and globally connected world I guess
it’s hardly surprising because does it
make more sense to be working here ago
giclee than it does to be desk-bound
I would say that anyone has the
capability of engaging with this kind of
learning approach regardless of what
you’re doing and how you’re doing it but
there is a massive leap to make because
our current education system formalized
education system has a traditional base
that’s basically not really necessarily
preparing people to really truly think
for themselves
Nataly caning put this in a really
interesting way when she was trying to
explain the difference between pedagogy
and heutagogy so in schools you have
pedagogy
and pedagogy is the instruction of
learning so learners come in and are fed
information and in lots of schools they
do lots of other exciting things too but
essentially the curriculum is controlled
by national outcomes things that they
have to achieve so the learning is
instruction lead next along you have
andragogy and this is all about learning
by doing you connect through the
learning and it cultivates an
understanding of the learning because
you’re doing something but there’s still
quite a lot of direction there hyouta
gaji is at the other end of the scale it
is utterly self led the the desire and
the thing that you are going to learn
doesn’t come from an outside source it
comes from within you as the learner now
this poses a lot of difficulty for
people trying to make the transition
from a pedagogical proach to learning to
something that is heutagogy cool because
if you want to make that leap students
who engage in a team entrepreneur
program have to be able to communicate
and connect with lots of other people
they have to be able to work with a team
and inner team they also have to be able
to understand how to identify and seek
opportunities for those kinds of
collaborations to occur and it’s not
easy there are many ways that you can
develop tools to help support people in
a huge odjick approach and in our
program we do this we work together team
becomes the construct that we use in
order to make these kind of connections
they have to work together as part of a
team which means they have to learn how
to communicate to negotiate to
understand and there’s a level of
interdependence that is required because
they have to know that who I am and what
I do does not just impact on me it
impacts on everybody around me as well
we coach and we don’t teach and this is
a different way of thinking there are no
taught inputs at all so students are
coached through the process of learning
through supportive challenge learning is
pulled from them by their peers and then
we don’t push learning back in so it’s a
different way of thinking there is no
timetable in terms of structured
activity so immediately team
entrepreneurs are placed into a period
of uncertainty and ambiguity in fact
chaos prevails it’s wonderful but what
it means is that right away they have to
get together as a team in order to gain
any kind of control over the situation
and it’s not an easy thing to do we also
play play is essential for life but it’s
also essential for innovating and
creative ideas through play physically
your body actually opens up blood rushes
through your body if you’re doing
warm-ups and exercises and it enables
you to think differently it’s fun as
well and there has to be joy and lastly
we look at William Isaac’s the idea of
dialogue this thing about thinking
together in dialogue we work on the
principle that people need to suspend
their own judgement in order to truly
respectfully listen to what they’re
hearing other people say and in the
listening when they do finally voice
they’re building on the idea of the team
entrepreneur that spoke before them
rather than disregarding it sounds like
utopia yeah paradise but there are
serious challenges here for us first one
being that making that leap between
pedagogy and heutagogy is extremely hard
and very painful for lots of people
coaching is also incredibly emotionally
exhausting having been an educator for
20-plus years I know
that a teacher can pretty much track the
the sort of way a lesson is going to
work whereas a coach comp we have to be
utterly at the service of the team that
we are coaching so we have to follow
their ebb and flow all the time being
acutely aware of where’s the learning
going here what are they missing how can
I challenge with a useful question and
education is also fast becoming a
commodity the idea that you pay me and I
teach you would kind of indicate that
the student has no responsibility after
that transaction and yet that is not
true and nor should it be
I believe fundamentally that this kind
of model of approach enables us to
really look at how learners can lead
themselves into the future it’s a bit
like that analogy of if you fit your own
oxygen mask first before you fit
somebody else’s then you will be okay
and it’s the same with this what are we
teaching young people about their
ability to lead themselves regardless of
the subject discipline I’d like to leave
you with going back to Chris because he
was still trying to wrestle with this
dynamic and he spoke to another two or
three team entrepreneurs who’d been the
leadership situations they very kindly
let me video some of what they were
talking about and I want to leave you
with this question
which is really how could we
revolutionize the way that we think
about talk about feel about and act
about leadership if we allowed our
learners for today to just lead
themselves I think the way that in fact
me was not behind the football in the
talk of behavior things
but when you see lately set by being
agree with a lot of boys and anything
it kind of makes you feel like fill out
the circle another place kills is how do
you separate yeah yeah hot like trying
to be still a teen number and still bond
with you team that’s a species
yeah I’m finding it hard like people I
want to feel like so many same as
everyone else and as team leader a
minute people looking to me for guidance
but people like the other day we were in
a session I challenged to stay silent
for the entire session and the first
thing the grass was right hard you wanna
come up this session and every wonder
stern words that mean I have to sit
there in complete silence which I found
by the
there’s no real British butcher – you’re
not solving the same my intention pushed
in the right direction find out things
for yourself as opposed to it’s almost
though it’s like here in the team you
when you find an issue you will bring
the team into it like you’re a group
work that’s no degree the first
gathering is quite selfish you just want
your your thing to do well or is here
you’ve got to support each other you
have to think yeah is a big sport not
just in your attitudes with
thank you
Please follow and like us: