welcome to mojo Scholl 25 and we host a
shine Carver solution and I’m Rebecca
Brayton in 4c Timor once again so this
week watch mantra celebrated its
six-year anniversary which makes us a
dinosaur by web video standards
hopefully with a better outcome than
what happened to the dinosaurs so we
thought it would be interesting to just
to a QA to look back at the good bad and
ugly and the pros and cons and the highs
and the lows of WatchMojo in its first
six years takeaway so the first question
is the the obvious million dollar
question why did you start WatchMojo
urgently I was working in an online
magazine that got acquired by News Corp
and I had a non-compete so I had to look
at what I like what my best options were
for the next phase of my career I was
actually somewhat cynical about video I
used to call video as empty calories I
think people read articles a lot more
than they consume videos but way back in
2005 you could see that over time the
trends would be that video would grow
quite a bit and so basically I wanted to
stick in content I wanted to stay in
content and I thought video would be a
good bet and because I couldn’t do like
immense focus publication because of my
non-compete I purposely picked a fairly
broad publication so producing videos
for men women children adults to avoid
the lawyers the key really long term was
just to have a video on every topic
right so that was sort of the big idea
that if we could produce videos and have
a video that addressed each topic in the
world as ambitious as it sounds over
time it would be a neat little business
so describe the company you started
versus the company that you run today
now one of the reasons I’m asking this
is because I always have trouble people
ask me you know what is WatchMojo when I
meet them on site and I always I still
have trouble succinctly and accurately
describing to them what it is yeah
that’s fair that’s fair enough
I mean I’ll watch Mel Joe is at its core
just like an online video magazine we
cover the same topics that you would
read in a magazine or in a newspaper
just in video format so I mean if I’m
describing it to my uncle I’d say you
know imagine
magazine or newspaper but imagine that
in video and they’re like oh that makes
sense
it’s also a little bit like what you see
in cable programming the idea is like
our music content looks and feel like
vh1 travel looks like the Travel Channel
history like the History Channel
that’s the idea really but I think at
its core is just an online video
magazine you know it’s a bit like
Wikipedia but not user-generated and not
in articles it’s a bit like about calm
but in video format there’s a bit more
of an editorial tone than what you would
get in in Wikipedia but really it’s just
online video magazine right well how
does that how has that changed okay
great question so when we started I mean
like everyone else we thought that great
produced content exchange links get that
content index and you have a big
destination sell ads against it and you
know you’re in the big leagues it didn’t
really work out like that in 2000 we
started in 2006 in 2007 56 % of video
producers had their owned and operated
website in 2010 that number fell to 18%
the reason is search engines do a crappy
job of indexing videos they basically
read the metadata like what the title is
in the description and the keywords
that’s how they index videos so it’s
basically become impossible as a
producer to have a property where your
master of your own domain where it’s
really changed I would say is that apart
from the fact that we’ve improved the
quality and really expanded our
tentacles what’s really what really
change from the first few months was
like many we focus more on distribution
over destination but unlike most we kept
the website because we felt it was good
to still have like a overall umbrella of
all of our content but that’s why if you
go to most video producers website it’s
a corporate page it’s a landing page
with like about us there’s no content
we’re sort of unique in that sense but
that’s that’s probably been the biggest
change now you mentioned that our
content is relatively similar to you
know some cable cable stuff discovery
now so why would someone watch a
WatchMojo production versus like a
Travel Channel Discovery Channel HBO
very fair question as well well for one
the reality is the same way that the
record labels did not embrace Napster
and put their music online and initially
the magazine well even to this day
magazines are not putting all of their
content online is that most Kay most
tell
via network broadcast cable or film
studios they’re not gonna put their
content on the Internet it’s you know to
quote Jeff Zucker former CEO of your NBC
Universal they don’t want to change
their analog dollars for digital pennies
right now it’s probably digital quarters
but it’s still not digital dollars
relative to analog dollars so we could
see that you know let’s say you have a
pyramid that represents content at the
top you have traditional media those
guys are not going to embrace the web so
we felt that if we could in that vacuum
produce similar content then we would
fill a void but to I think its length
the web has made us look at Twitter 140
characters you know the web is made us
so short bite-sized micro content
consumers that we wanted to you know
we’ll do a seven-minute bio of the
Beatles we cover the most success one of
them or the most successful band of all
time in seven minutes that’s made one of
our users you know email this a year ago
and you said this is perfect for the Gen
Y you know sort of generation where we
have like a DD and we can’t contact heck
I can’t concentrate for more than two
minutes let alone two hours so I think
the idea is one is there’s a void on the
internet so we fill that void and to the
formatting and the the packaging makes
sense for the web you know they blame
Sesame Street for that the lack of
concentration I believe that because I
watch Sesame now that is SME Street now
that I have two daughters and what were
we talking about right so what has been
the biggest surprise that you’ve had
over the time with watching um the
biggest surprise probably has been not
to be cheesy but that we’ve survived I
mean if you take a look I mean you have
to survive before you thrive and I think
now we’re sort of in the last 18 months
I’ve hit a bit of a tipping point
thankfully where we’re growing more
partnerships more validation you know
thankfully I seeing how much
broadly speaking online video was a lot
so hyped and the reality was so poor
look at the number of technology
companies in video that have blown up
there’s really not been that many
successful content companies I think we
stand out because we sort of were a
survivor there’s a lot of successful
content companies and I and I you know
look up to them and I respect their
leaders I’m just saying relative to the
amount of money that was invested we
never raised
outside capital but relative to the
amount of money that’s gone into the
industry it’s actually been rather
underwhelming and I think you know as
much as the industry tends to drink the
kool-aid everybody’s a mercenary like
they hype the the latest thing that
they’re boosting basically I’m actually
quite candid to say that I think videos
have flopped relative to the
expectations people thought it was going
to be the next search engine in the
street I thought well who’s the next
Google and like I always say Google is
an ex-googler video because they bought
YouTube so I would say it’s more the
fact that the actual reality has been
rather underwhelming and thankfully we
didn’t raise capital in that sense so
the expectations that we have to surpass
are relatively low but for most
businesses in the industry they’re gonna
have a tough time getting their
investors a return on their investment
so tell us about some of the huge
disappointments mistakes setbacks that
you think is this an hour-long show no I
mean I mean listen to be honest with you
we’ve had a lot of you know it’s the the
relative apathy of the investment
community towards content is a letdown I
mean the fact that they’ll keep putting
money in the latest sexiest fad whether
it was yet another social network the
latest link shortener the latest
location-based services I mean you name
them we’ve seen the fats come and go yet
content always seems to be detoured but
that’s just a reality you know life’s
unfair get used to it move on to I think
you know personally a mistake I did as i
may be invested a bit too much on the
content side in hindsight I mean I know
you you’re hearing that as someone on
the content side I mean it’s great
content is king but probably at some
point I should have shifted years and
you know maybe put a bit more on the
business side and sales and expanded
that faster but I mean overall I think
we’ve done a very good job than an
admirable job of building a business and
content which is tough I just never
understood if I were to go back like as
an advice to an entrepreneur like I came
from a Content company and I probably
didn’t open my blinders enough to say
well if I don’t want to do content what
else is out there
in hindsight it worked out because we’re
successful but I just think that
contents you know the feel as I say
content is king but it’s basically
ridiculed marked spat on pooped on it’s
just it’s a very tough business to
but we’re sort of using that to our
advantage that it’s so very hard now to
do what we’ve done which is build this
massive catalog but I would say yeah
without a doubt the fact that content is
not necessarily King or content without
distribution is not necessarily king
that’s been a bit of a disappointment
now your answer to this may be redundant
I’m not sure but what would you say
would you be able to pinpoint the number
one thing that is holding WatchMojo back
without a doubt I think being based in
Montreal I mean you know the reality is
content is a long-term bet I think in
nowadays with you know you read
TechCrunch you follow all this VC funded
stuff and you have to realize once you
decide to go into content you’re not a
tech firm like machinima which is the
number one content producer on YouTube
they’re massive they’ve been around
since 2000 and sometime in 2006 or 5 or
7 they basically pivoted into being a
YouTube platform you know vice also from
Montreal I mean they’d been around since
1994 and now Forbes writes that they’re
crushing it and then you know they’re
doing a lot of things very well so what
I think going into it you have to
realize that content takes a lot longer
to grow that’s fair you know Hearst has
been around for 150 years Rupert Murdoch
is been around forever so I think one
you just have to realize it’s a
different time horizon but but I would
say being in Montreal is probably a good
place to start a company but you know
there’s a reason why I spend 25-30
percent of my time in New York that’s
been holding us back and then as a
result of being in Montreal I would just
say the lack of resources you know like
maybe you know if we lied to the
investment investor the people who are
interested to invest I could lie to them
and say this is the game plan maybe
we’re a bit too candid but ultimately I
think you need resources to grow you
know if you don’t put water on a plant
well that plants not going to grow as
fast as as if you actually feed it and
give it you know sunlight and all that
jazz so those are probably the things
holding us back I think we have a great
team I think our catalog is amazing I
think our distribution is pretty pretty
strong so a lot of the elements are
there for us to take off but obviously
being in Montreal and not having outside
capital I mean those are too
overwhelming not strikes but they’re too
overwhelming obstacles that as an
entrepreneur you know people say start a
company where the talent is
sure but start a company where the
ecosystem is as well and I think that’s
why you see tech companies going to San
Fran and increasingly New York and I
think as a media content company we have
no business being in Montreal as much as
it’s a great city there’s that theme
again there’s that that’s why it’s
called the theme I’m sorry greatest
accomplishment and I’ve put in my notes
please don’t say winning velocity yeah
well the lawsuit would not be the
greatest accomplishment the lawsuit is
just like a little footnote anecdotal
it’s fun to talk about blah blah blah
I would say the greatest accomplishment
and this is really cheesy I’m not saying
it because there’s a few of the people
listening in the stuff I would say the
fact that we have the same team that
we’ve largely had I mean we if you think
about it you know let’s say we’ve had
you know a team the freelance basis
probably is over a hundred but the core
employees let’s say we’ve had fifteen to
twenty and I would say thirteen to
fifteen of those people are still with
the company that’s really neat I mean
this is a big cliche I think culture
Trump’s a lot of other things I mean you
know it’s like you can make a decision
to put profit ahead of people or people
at a profit and then the profit takes
care of itself so I what I think of it
as we do have this very unique culture
we’ve survived we’re starting to thrive
so to speak and it’s a lot of the same
people that sort of helped us build the
company are still there that is pretty
cool you know I don’t want to name names
I get a lot of fellow CEOs who tell me
about the cancerous climates that they
find themselves in now because they’re
VCS have forced them to bring on people
that don’t really have any of the common
history DNA or values these are
important things so for me that’s
probably the number one thing but at the
end of the day surviving and and
starting to be like going from an
expensive hobby to you know if we had
the culture but but the company sucked
it wouldn’t mean anything it’s the fact
that the results are there and the
results are starting to accelerate okay
so let’s let’s do the other cliche
question which is realistically where do
you see the company in another six years
okay I actually think that once my head
started to change in my perspective
change and I realized that content is a
different sort of it’s like a recipe
you’re not gonna make pulled pork in an
afternoon like a day pulled pork takes a
while and when done well it’s very good
I think in six years we will probably be
the we will probably be
most valuable brand / company that is
focused on the production of video
content for emerging platforms so I
think when you look at all of the
companies that sort of have focused on
producing content watch module will most
probably be either the most valuable
brand or the most valuable business that
is focused on you know new media video
production and notice I didn’t say
distribution even though we have a good
distribution it’s pretty clear you can’t
really excel at both and I think that
there could be another company that
might generate a bit more revenue but
they might have massive costs so their
value is going to be less than ours and
we I would say the last 18 months have
given me the signs in the last six
months or even the last six weeks of
giving me some of the sort of validation
that I need to be like okay this isn’t
delusional entrepreneur talk I can see
that happening so that’s where I see us
in six years great well that’s it tune
in next week for another episode of hip
mojo and play the drinking game spot the
Seinfeld references what was the
Seinfeld reference you always do
shine Carver solution and I’m Rebecca
Brayton in 4c Timor once again so this
week watch mantra celebrated its
six-year anniversary which makes us a
dinosaur by web video standards
hopefully with a better outcome than
what happened to the dinosaurs so we
thought it would be interesting to just
to a QA to look back at the good bad and
ugly and the pros and cons and the highs
and the lows of WatchMojo in its first
six years takeaway so the first question
is the the obvious million dollar
question why did you start WatchMojo
urgently I was working in an online
magazine that got acquired by News Corp
and I had a non-compete so I had to look
at what I like what my best options were
for the next phase of my career I was
actually somewhat cynical about video I
used to call video as empty calories I
think people read articles a lot more
than they consume videos but way back in
2005 you could see that over time the
trends would be that video would grow
quite a bit and so basically I wanted to
stick in content I wanted to stay in
content and I thought video would be a
good bet and because I couldn’t do like
immense focus publication because of my
non-compete I purposely picked a fairly
broad publication so producing videos
for men women children adults to avoid
the lawyers the key really long term was
just to have a video on every topic
right so that was sort of the big idea
that if we could produce videos and have
a video that addressed each topic in the
world as ambitious as it sounds over
time it would be a neat little business
so describe the company you started
versus the company that you run today
now one of the reasons I’m asking this
is because I always have trouble people
ask me you know what is WatchMojo when I
meet them on site and I always I still
have trouble succinctly and accurately
describing to them what it is yeah
that’s fair that’s fair enough
I mean I’ll watch Mel Joe is at its core
just like an online video magazine we
cover the same topics that you would
read in a magazine or in a newspaper
just in video format so I mean if I’m
describing it to my uncle I’d say you
know imagine
magazine or newspaper but imagine that
in video and they’re like oh that makes
sense
it’s also a little bit like what you see
in cable programming the idea is like
our music content looks and feel like
vh1 travel looks like the Travel Channel
history like the History Channel
that’s the idea really but I think at
its core is just an online video
magazine you know it’s a bit like
Wikipedia but not user-generated and not
in articles it’s a bit like about calm
but in video format there’s a bit more
of an editorial tone than what you would
get in in Wikipedia but really it’s just
online video magazine right well how
does that how has that changed okay
great question so when we started I mean
like everyone else we thought that great
produced content exchange links get that
content index and you have a big
destination sell ads against it and you
know you’re in the big leagues it didn’t
really work out like that in 2000 we
started in 2006 in 2007 56 % of video
producers had their owned and operated
website in 2010 that number fell to 18%
the reason is search engines do a crappy
job of indexing videos they basically
read the metadata like what the title is
in the description and the keywords
that’s how they index videos so it’s
basically become impossible as a
producer to have a property where your
master of your own domain where it’s
really changed I would say is that apart
from the fact that we’ve improved the
quality and really expanded our
tentacles what’s really what really
change from the first few months was
like many we focus more on distribution
over destination but unlike most we kept
the website because we felt it was good
to still have like a overall umbrella of
all of our content but that’s why if you
go to most video producers website it’s
a corporate page it’s a landing page
with like about us there’s no content
we’re sort of unique in that sense but
that’s that’s probably been the biggest
change now you mentioned that our
content is relatively similar to you
know some cable cable stuff discovery
now so why would someone watch a
WatchMojo production versus like a
Travel Channel Discovery Channel HBO
very fair question as well well for one
the reality is the same way that the
record labels did not embrace Napster
and put their music online and initially
the magazine well even to this day
magazines are not putting all of their
content online is that most Kay most
tell
via network broadcast cable or film
studios they’re not gonna put their
content on the Internet it’s you know to
quote Jeff Zucker former CEO of your NBC
Universal they don’t want to change
their analog dollars for digital pennies
right now it’s probably digital quarters
but it’s still not digital dollars
relative to analog dollars so we could
see that you know let’s say you have a
pyramid that represents content at the
top you have traditional media those
guys are not going to embrace the web so
we felt that if we could in that vacuum
produce similar content then we would
fill a void but to I think its length
the web has made us look at Twitter 140
characters you know the web is made us
so short bite-sized micro content
consumers that we wanted to you know
we’ll do a seven-minute bio of the
Beatles we cover the most success one of
them or the most successful band of all
time in seven minutes that’s made one of
our users you know email this a year ago
and you said this is perfect for the Gen
Y you know sort of generation where we
have like a DD and we can’t contact heck
I can’t concentrate for more than two
minutes let alone two hours so I think
the idea is one is there’s a void on the
internet so we fill that void and to the
formatting and the the packaging makes
sense for the web you know they blame
Sesame Street for that the lack of
concentration I believe that because I
watch Sesame now that is SME Street now
that I have two daughters and what were
we talking about right so what has been
the biggest surprise that you’ve had
over the time with watching um the
biggest surprise probably has been not
to be cheesy but that we’ve survived I
mean if you take a look I mean you have
to survive before you thrive and I think
now we’re sort of in the last 18 months
I’ve hit a bit of a tipping point
thankfully where we’re growing more
partnerships more validation you know
thankfully I seeing how much
broadly speaking online video was a lot
so hyped and the reality was so poor
look at the number of technology
companies in video that have blown up
there’s really not been that many
successful content companies I think we
stand out because we sort of were a
survivor there’s a lot of successful
content companies and I and I you know
look up to them and I respect their
leaders I’m just saying relative to the
amount of money that was invested we
never raised
outside capital but relative to the
amount of money that’s gone into the
industry it’s actually been rather
underwhelming and I think you know as
much as the industry tends to drink the
kool-aid everybody’s a mercenary like
they hype the the latest thing that
they’re boosting basically I’m actually
quite candid to say that I think videos
have flopped relative to the
expectations people thought it was going
to be the next search engine in the
street I thought well who’s the next
Google and like I always say Google is
an ex-googler video because they bought
YouTube so I would say it’s more the
fact that the actual reality has been
rather underwhelming and thankfully we
didn’t raise capital in that sense so
the expectations that we have to surpass
are relatively low but for most
businesses in the industry they’re gonna
have a tough time getting their
investors a return on their investment
so tell us about some of the huge
disappointments mistakes setbacks that
you think is this an hour-long show no I
mean I mean listen to be honest with you
we’ve had a lot of you know it’s the the
relative apathy of the investment
community towards content is a letdown I
mean the fact that they’ll keep putting
money in the latest sexiest fad whether
it was yet another social network the
latest link shortener the latest
location-based services I mean you name
them we’ve seen the fats come and go yet
content always seems to be detoured but
that’s just a reality you know life’s
unfair get used to it move on to I think
you know personally a mistake I did as i
may be invested a bit too much on the
content side in hindsight I mean I know
you you’re hearing that as someone on
the content side I mean it’s great
content is king but probably at some
point I should have shifted years and
you know maybe put a bit more on the
business side and sales and expanded
that faster but I mean overall I think
we’ve done a very good job than an
admirable job of building a business and
content which is tough I just never
understood if I were to go back like as
an advice to an entrepreneur like I came
from a Content company and I probably
didn’t open my blinders enough to say
well if I don’t want to do content what
else is out there
in hindsight it worked out because we’re
successful but I just think that
contents you know the feel as I say
content is king but it’s basically
ridiculed marked spat on pooped on it’s
just it’s a very tough business to
but we’re sort of using that to our
advantage that it’s so very hard now to
do what we’ve done which is build this
massive catalog but I would say yeah
without a doubt the fact that content is
not necessarily King or content without
distribution is not necessarily king
that’s been a bit of a disappointment
now your answer to this may be redundant
I’m not sure but what would you say
would you be able to pinpoint the number
one thing that is holding WatchMojo back
without a doubt I think being based in
Montreal I mean you know the reality is
content is a long-term bet I think in
nowadays with you know you read
TechCrunch you follow all this VC funded
stuff and you have to realize once you
decide to go into content you’re not a
tech firm like machinima which is the
number one content producer on YouTube
they’re massive they’ve been around
since 2000 and sometime in 2006 or 5 or
7 they basically pivoted into being a
YouTube platform you know vice also from
Montreal I mean they’d been around since
1994 and now Forbes writes that they’re
crushing it and then you know they’re
doing a lot of things very well so what
I think going into it you have to
realize that content takes a lot longer
to grow that’s fair you know Hearst has
been around for 150 years Rupert Murdoch
is been around forever so I think one
you just have to realize it’s a
different time horizon but but I would
say being in Montreal is probably a good
place to start a company but you know
there’s a reason why I spend 25-30
percent of my time in New York that’s
been holding us back and then as a
result of being in Montreal I would just
say the lack of resources you know like
maybe you know if we lied to the
investment investor the people who are
interested to invest I could lie to them
and say this is the game plan maybe
we’re a bit too candid but ultimately I
think you need resources to grow you
know if you don’t put water on a plant
well that plants not going to grow as
fast as as if you actually feed it and
give it you know sunlight and all that
jazz so those are probably the things
holding us back I think we have a great
team I think our catalog is amazing I
think our distribution is pretty pretty
strong so a lot of the elements are
there for us to take off but obviously
being in Montreal and not having outside
capital I mean those are too
overwhelming not strikes but they’re too
overwhelming obstacles that as an
entrepreneur you know people say start a
company where the talent is
sure but start a company where the
ecosystem is as well and I think that’s
why you see tech companies going to San
Fran and increasingly New York and I
think as a media content company we have
no business being in Montreal as much as
it’s a great city there’s that theme
again there’s that that’s why it’s
called the theme I’m sorry greatest
accomplishment and I’ve put in my notes
please don’t say winning velocity yeah
well the lawsuit would not be the
greatest accomplishment the lawsuit is
just like a little footnote anecdotal
it’s fun to talk about blah blah blah
I would say the greatest accomplishment
and this is really cheesy I’m not saying
it because there’s a few of the people
listening in the stuff I would say the
fact that we have the same team that
we’ve largely had I mean we if you think
about it you know let’s say we’ve had
you know a team the freelance basis
probably is over a hundred but the core
employees let’s say we’ve had fifteen to
twenty and I would say thirteen to
fifteen of those people are still with
the company that’s really neat I mean
this is a big cliche I think culture
Trump’s a lot of other things I mean you
know it’s like you can make a decision
to put profit ahead of people or people
at a profit and then the profit takes
care of itself so I what I think of it
as we do have this very unique culture
we’ve survived we’re starting to thrive
so to speak and it’s a lot of the same
people that sort of helped us build the
company are still there that is pretty
cool you know I don’t want to name names
I get a lot of fellow CEOs who tell me
about the cancerous climates that they
find themselves in now because they’re
VCS have forced them to bring on people
that don’t really have any of the common
history DNA or values these are
important things so for me that’s
probably the number one thing but at the
end of the day surviving and and
starting to be like going from an
expensive hobby to you know if we had
the culture but but the company sucked
it wouldn’t mean anything it’s the fact
that the results are there and the
results are starting to accelerate okay
so let’s let’s do the other cliche
question which is realistically where do
you see the company in another six years
okay I actually think that once my head
started to change in my perspective
change and I realized that content is a
different sort of it’s like a recipe
you’re not gonna make pulled pork in an
afternoon like a day pulled pork takes a
while and when done well it’s very good
I think in six years we will probably be
the we will probably be
most valuable brand / company that is
focused on the production of video
content for emerging platforms so I
think when you look at all of the
companies that sort of have focused on
producing content watch module will most
probably be either the most valuable
brand or the most valuable business that
is focused on you know new media video
production and notice I didn’t say
distribution even though we have a good
distribution it’s pretty clear you can’t
really excel at both and I think that
there could be another company that
might generate a bit more revenue but
they might have massive costs so their
value is going to be less than ours and
we I would say the last 18 months have
given me the signs in the last six
months or even the last six weeks of
giving me some of the sort of validation
that I need to be like okay this isn’t
delusional entrepreneur talk I can see
that happening so that’s where I see us
in six years great well that’s it tune
in next week for another episode of hip
mojo and play the drinking game spot the
Seinfeld references what was the
Seinfeld reference you always do
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