welcome back to segment two of show 13
so if I didn’t piss off everyone and or
at least all the female audience in
segment 1 i’m now going to piss off
everybody for playing devil’s advocate
in this segment we’re going to talk
about the e parasite and the protect IP
bills that basically are trying to
unravel whatever the DMCA you know sort
of brought onto the internet and
ninety-eight what is the DMCA that the
DMCA is the Digital Millennium Copyright
Act and basically what that did when
Congress passed it in 1998 is it updated
copyright laws and it basically gave for
safe harbors I’m not going to bore you
with what they are because frankly to a
non-techie they all sound the same but
you can you know you could go find out
what they are the bottom line is that it
basically allowed user-generated sites
to operate and put the onus on
traditional media companies to issue a
takedown notice to do individual users
well not just individual users but also
to like the youtubes of the world so if
YouTube for example if somebody uploads
a video of lazy Sunday which was the SNL
skit to YouTube then NBC basically just
uploads a takedown notice like issues to
takedown notice and so long as YouTube
takes down that infringing video then
YouTube is not get shut down what this
what these two bills bills are setting
out to do basically are removing the
onus from the the traditional media
companies and they basically allow the
traditional media companies to simply
say ok youtube is infringing so we’re
going to do what happened to WikiLeaks
which is cut off their source of funding
they can’t collect money etc etc which
means the death of ugc sites obviously
the tech community as well as the
venture capitalists who are funding all
these companies they’re a bit upset so
what is your take first about the
protect IP and the e parasite law okay I
I get why big media and mainstream media
is doing this I think it’s a huge huge
effing mistake so basically there I
think they’re trying to buy themselves
I’m until they’re ready to adapt to the
technology at which point they can
choose who how and when to litigate at
their discretion when what they should
be doing is taking their investors money
in fact they should have done this five
years ago but they should start doing it
now instead of spending it on lobbyists
and lawyers they should be taking their
investors money and finding ways to
embrace different technology and really
embracing and adapting to like the
really lowered costs the content
production and just focus on producing
awesome content because really what what
are the youtubes of the world their
distribution channels it’s I don’t know
it’s it’s almost this is a really bad
analogy but it’s almost like an old
school newspaper suing kimberly-clark
because their paper was used to reprint
something that was a copyright
infringement okay so I’m going to first
agree with one thing you said if you
take a location point of Hulu where the
traditional media companies got together
and said we’re going to be proactive and
we’re going to build something then
great but here’s the reality news flash
the faster traditional media companies
embrace the web the faster they kill
themselves because the reality is that
the web shrinks traditional businesses
the web removes all of the
inefficiencies of traditional industries
and businesses including media but also
travel you’re just saying the market has
changed the forces of supply and demand
have shifted based on new realities
there is no longer a market for the kind
of product that their packaging and
producing and they’re just wasting their
money trying to force that down
everyone’s throat I would even say this
border is like on antitrust okay
inclusion for the record I’m against
these bills I’m just playing devil’s
advocate I don’t want to get hate mail
and I don’t want to be a hypocrite but I
do think it’s important before word and
pavement no but I do think it’s
important for the critics of these laws
and those who question the traditional
media companies to put themselves in the
shoes of the other side just for a
second to come up with a better argument
and this is my point it’s it’s not that
different you know there’s a saying it’s
easier to ask for forgiveness than it is
to ask for permission so at the very
like I know I’m comparing apples and
oranges but one of vc goes out there and
they fund youtube or Napster both sites
i love as a consumer I think they don’t
go out there and ask permission of the
traditional media companies saying you
know there’s a chance that basically
these tools are going to disrupt your
industry
you so we’re going to play with your IP
but we’re not going to ask you how you
feel about it because clearly you don’t
like this so we’re going to disrupt you
we’re not going to ask your permission
but after the fact if you if you object
to an infringing piece of document then
you could issue a takedown and after the
fact you’re welcome to use these tools
even though they destroy your value over
time which I agree it’s survival of the
fittest its Darwinism too bad but I’m
just saying how different is it now for
the traditional media companies to say
you know tech companies we’re not going
to sit down and invite you to the table
and talk about how you feel about this
bills we’re going to do exactly what you
did we’re going to preempt we’re going
to go out there and get so draconian
with these first strike tactics that
then you’re gonna have to come back and
you’re going to say no no but let’s have
a discussion and I’m gonna end it this
kind of big corporate influence over
legislation I think is is precisely with
the Occupy movement is about right now
but I want to draw a parallel and I
don’t know if it’s a factual parallel
but we’ve all heard the conspiracy
theory the big oil bought the electric
car or the hydrogen car or the water car
or the cold fusion car and they put it
in a safe and they own the patents and
they’ll never let it get produced
because it’ll eat into their market
share if that is true if that makes them
really evil because it’s hurting the
rest of us and I think this is the same
kind of I don’t know the same kind of
ethos behind this move I think that it’s
slowing down progress that benefits
citizens consumers and your users just
to keep a bunch of rich people who made
some bad decisions when the internet
started gaining ground it keeps them
rich and it screws everyone else I think
it’s bad yeah I just I just my point is
it’s it’s unfair for people to be like
the traditional media companies are
crazy it’s not in their economic
incentive to be for the status quo so
you know you know you said you shouldn’t
blame them I think you know the reality
is like no I can blame them for not be
having been smarter about addressing
technology as it evolved but they were
too interested the sooner they go out of
business know if they just have
to change their business model is that
they should focus more on content
production and worry less about the
actual distribution great i don’t have
to maintain a network anymore how easy
is that ok do you think these bills will
actually pass and become law or do you
think that they’re basically you know
brass knuckle tactics to get the tech
companies to agree to more because the
see here’s why the DNC I think pisses
off law these media companies the onus
like look at look at viacom and YouTube
for the record and a fortune on lawyers
and send down one takedown know exactly
and even after that they just reappear
so I’m just saying like you know the
media companies are just trying to give
a taste of the medicine back to the tech
firms I you know I Fred Wilson early
you’re going to shut down YouTube
because of one SNL skit that was
uploaded but it’s not one SNL skit I
think if you take a look at the nets in
that landscape and what Napster did to
the record labels what what you know how
needle YouTube’s impact on Hollywood I
think I think Viacom is misguided for
not using youtube today okay I side with
YouTube and yes I’m biased as a new
media entrepreneur let me not come
across as a hit my bias as a user no I
don’t know but as a user it’s not as a
user I’m fully on the side of the
YouTube in the nap sirs but I’m just
saying I try not to be a hypocrite I try
to see both sides of the argument my
point is I I’m not siding with the
traditional media companies even though
like I have a vested interest to not
piss off the media companies who are
partners but I would just sort of speak
to them and say you guys you know I
understand their approach it’s very very
draconian it’s like the first strike you
know philosophy but my point is the VCS
who are against this need to understand
why the media companies are doing this
because they’re basically doing exactly
what the tech firms did which is they
said we’re gonna unleash all these
disruptive tools out there and we don’t
care what okay you know what disruptive
Tebow’s disrupted because with tebow i
can capture a show and then have the
file top yeah but of no one’s going over
them because T was already becoming like
almost passed so one of those that i
know but like that kind of technology is
still a disruptive tool at the end of
the day it was the user who recorded the
stuff which is a pseudo copyright
infringement then they uploaded it and
shared it and distribute it to other
people like that’s that’s the user the
individual user crossing the line not
the youtube okay and it’s expensive as
it is and as much as an economic
incentive as they have I think this is
goes very much beyond just misguided I
think it’s like a grotesquely litigious
okay I just want to finish off a few
points to make sure Mike my position is
secure one investor Fred Wilson who’s
one of the nicest DC’s out there not
like the evil vc that you hear a very
generous with this time and I do commend
them for basically trying to bring a
spotlight on to this
his main point and I think this is what
I at least want to relay I mean it’s
good to play devil’s advocate but at
some point i’m in favor of those against
these bills he does say that you know at
the end of the day the DMCA does work I
will just add that it might not be
perfect and it’s not what the media
companies work but it does work and he
basically argues that look at the jobs
that the tech firms have created over
the last two decades and I would say
yeah if you probably look at the stats
those jobs created probably far outweigh
the jobs lost by traditional media
companies so at the end of the day the
net impact to society because of the
DMCA is positive so I think that’s the
main argument here just one last thing
now on this and then we can move on now
I do think though that you know both
sides interestingly have been driven by
greed and fear initially I would say the
tech firms and the VCS were driven by
greed by unleashing these tools and
saying I will worry about the result
later and then the media companies were
driven by fear like oh my god I’m gonna
have less money to basically eat shrimp
and cocktails and champagne and now that
these bills have been drafted and it
scares the living daylights out of the
tech firms it’s almost like the opposite
where the tech companies are now being
driven by fear and the VCS are being
driven by fear and the Tet and the
traditional media companies all said and
there are the greedy ones who are like
oh my god we can destroy the internet
and take everything back but at the end
of the day I think look at all the great
things that you know the Internet is
done and the world wide web is done I
don’t understand how anybody including
the traditional media companies could
actually be in favor of this I don’t
think they expect this to pass I don’t
even think they want this to pass but I
think they want to use a very very hard
tactic with the tech and VC community to
say you guys have to play ball now I
will just say this if this does become
long and the DMCA blows up they should
be careful because i think the
uncertainty could be far greater and it
reminds her of that expression better
the devil you know than the devil you
don’t know and i do think that if the
DMCA is blown up then you’re going to
see like when when they killed Napster
what happened cazal came around all
these things came around that were far
far wilder and harder to contain the
Napster ever was so I think history
repeats itself and the traditional media
companies should be careful we’re gonna
take a short break come back for
lightning round
so if I didn’t piss off everyone and or
at least all the female audience in
segment 1 i’m now going to piss off
everybody for playing devil’s advocate
in this segment we’re going to talk
about the e parasite and the protect IP
bills that basically are trying to
unravel whatever the DMCA you know sort
of brought onto the internet and
ninety-eight what is the DMCA that the
DMCA is the Digital Millennium Copyright
Act and basically what that did when
Congress passed it in 1998 is it updated
copyright laws and it basically gave for
safe harbors I’m not going to bore you
with what they are because frankly to a
non-techie they all sound the same but
you can you know you could go find out
what they are the bottom line is that it
basically allowed user-generated sites
to operate and put the onus on
traditional media companies to issue a
takedown notice to do individual users
well not just individual users but also
to like the youtubes of the world so if
YouTube for example if somebody uploads
a video of lazy Sunday which was the SNL
skit to YouTube then NBC basically just
uploads a takedown notice like issues to
takedown notice and so long as YouTube
takes down that infringing video then
YouTube is not get shut down what this
what these two bills bills are setting
out to do basically are removing the
onus from the the traditional media
companies and they basically allow the
traditional media companies to simply
say ok youtube is infringing so we’re
going to do what happened to WikiLeaks
which is cut off their source of funding
they can’t collect money etc etc which
means the death of ugc sites obviously
the tech community as well as the
venture capitalists who are funding all
these companies they’re a bit upset so
what is your take first about the
protect IP and the e parasite law okay I
I get why big media and mainstream media
is doing this I think it’s a huge huge
effing mistake so basically there I
think they’re trying to buy themselves
I’m until they’re ready to adapt to the
technology at which point they can
choose who how and when to litigate at
their discretion when what they should
be doing is taking their investors money
in fact they should have done this five
years ago but they should start doing it
now instead of spending it on lobbyists
and lawyers they should be taking their
investors money and finding ways to
embrace different technology and really
embracing and adapting to like the
really lowered costs the content
production and just focus on producing
awesome content because really what what
are the youtubes of the world their
distribution channels it’s I don’t know
it’s it’s almost this is a really bad
analogy but it’s almost like an old
school newspaper suing kimberly-clark
because their paper was used to reprint
something that was a copyright
infringement okay so I’m going to first
agree with one thing you said if you
take a location point of Hulu where the
traditional media companies got together
and said we’re going to be proactive and
we’re going to build something then
great but here’s the reality news flash
the faster traditional media companies
embrace the web the faster they kill
themselves because the reality is that
the web shrinks traditional businesses
the web removes all of the
inefficiencies of traditional industries
and businesses including media but also
travel you’re just saying the market has
changed the forces of supply and demand
have shifted based on new realities
there is no longer a market for the kind
of product that their packaging and
producing and they’re just wasting their
money trying to force that down
everyone’s throat I would even say this
border is like on antitrust okay
inclusion for the record I’m against
these bills I’m just playing devil’s
advocate I don’t want to get hate mail
and I don’t want to be a hypocrite but I
do think it’s important before word and
pavement no but I do think it’s
important for the critics of these laws
and those who question the traditional
media companies to put themselves in the
shoes of the other side just for a
second to come up with a better argument
and this is my point it’s it’s not that
different you know there’s a saying it’s
easier to ask for forgiveness than it is
to ask for permission so at the very
like I know I’m comparing apples and
oranges but one of vc goes out there and
they fund youtube or Napster both sites
i love as a consumer I think they don’t
go out there and ask permission of the
traditional media companies saying you
know there’s a chance that basically
these tools are going to disrupt your
industry
you so we’re going to play with your IP
but we’re not going to ask you how you
feel about it because clearly you don’t
like this so we’re going to disrupt you
we’re not going to ask your permission
but after the fact if you if you object
to an infringing piece of document then
you could issue a takedown and after the
fact you’re welcome to use these tools
even though they destroy your value over
time which I agree it’s survival of the
fittest its Darwinism too bad but I’m
just saying how different is it now for
the traditional media companies to say
you know tech companies we’re not going
to sit down and invite you to the table
and talk about how you feel about this
bills we’re going to do exactly what you
did we’re going to preempt we’re going
to go out there and get so draconian
with these first strike tactics that
then you’re gonna have to come back and
you’re going to say no no but let’s have
a discussion and I’m gonna end it this
kind of big corporate influence over
legislation I think is is precisely with
the Occupy movement is about right now
but I want to draw a parallel and I
don’t know if it’s a factual parallel
but we’ve all heard the conspiracy
theory the big oil bought the electric
car or the hydrogen car or the water car
or the cold fusion car and they put it
in a safe and they own the patents and
they’ll never let it get produced
because it’ll eat into their market
share if that is true if that makes them
really evil because it’s hurting the
rest of us and I think this is the same
kind of I don’t know the same kind of
ethos behind this move I think that it’s
slowing down progress that benefits
citizens consumers and your users just
to keep a bunch of rich people who made
some bad decisions when the internet
started gaining ground it keeps them
rich and it screws everyone else I think
it’s bad yeah I just I just my point is
it’s it’s unfair for people to be like
the traditional media companies are
crazy it’s not in their economic
incentive to be for the status quo so
you know you know you said you shouldn’t
blame them I think you know the reality
is like no I can blame them for not be
having been smarter about addressing
technology as it evolved but they were
too interested the sooner they go out of
business know if they just have
to change their business model is that
they should focus more on content
production and worry less about the
actual distribution great i don’t have
to maintain a network anymore how easy
is that ok do you think these bills will
actually pass and become law or do you
think that they’re basically you know
brass knuckle tactics to get the tech
companies to agree to more because the
see here’s why the DNC I think pisses
off law these media companies the onus
like look at look at viacom and YouTube
for the record and a fortune on lawyers
and send down one takedown know exactly
and even after that they just reappear
so I’m just saying like you know the
media companies are just trying to give
a taste of the medicine back to the tech
firms I you know I Fred Wilson early
you’re going to shut down YouTube
because of one SNL skit that was
uploaded but it’s not one SNL skit I
think if you take a look at the nets in
that landscape and what Napster did to
the record labels what what you know how
needle YouTube’s impact on Hollywood I
think I think Viacom is misguided for
not using youtube today okay I side with
YouTube and yes I’m biased as a new
media entrepreneur let me not come
across as a hit my bias as a user no I
don’t know but as a user it’s not as a
user I’m fully on the side of the
YouTube in the nap sirs but I’m just
saying I try not to be a hypocrite I try
to see both sides of the argument my
point is I I’m not siding with the
traditional media companies even though
like I have a vested interest to not
piss off the media companies who are
partners but I would just sort of speak
to them and say you guys you know I
understand their approach it’s very very
draconian it’s like the first strike you
know philosophy but my point is the VCS
who are against this need to understand
why the media companies are doing this
because they’re basically doing exactly
what the tech firms did which is they
said we’re gonna unleash all these
disruptive tools out there and we don’t
care what okay you know what disruptive
Tebow’s disrupted because with tebow i
can capture a show and then have the
file top yeah but of no one’s going over
them because T was already becoming like
almost passed so one of those that i
know but like that kind of technology is
still a disruptive tool at the end of
the day it was the user who recorded the
stuff which is a pseudo copyright
infringement then they uploaded it and
shared it and distribute it to other
people like that’s that’s the user the
individual user crossing the line not
the youtube okay and it’s expensive as
it is and as much as an economic
incentive as they have I think this is
goes very much beyond just misguided I
think it’s like a grotesquely litigious
okay I just want to finish off a few
points to make sure Mike my position is
secure one investor Fred Wilson who’s
one of the nicest DC’s out there not
like the evil vc that you hear a very
generous with this time and I do commend
them for basically trying to bring a
spotlight on to this
his main point and I think this is what
I at least want to relay I mean it’s
good to play devil’s advocate but at
some point i’m in favor of those against
these bills he does say that you know at
the end of the day the DMCA does work I
will just add that it might not be
perfect and it’s not what the media
companies work but it does work and he
basically argues that look at the jobs
that the tech firms have created over
the last two decades and I would say
yeah if you probably look at the stats
those jobs created probably far outweigh
the jobs lost by traditional media
companies so at the end of the day the
net impact to society because of the
DMCA is positive so I think that’s the
main argument here just one last thing
now on this and then we can move on now
I do think though that you know both
sides interestingly have been driven by
greed and fear initially I would say the
tech firms and the VCS were driven by
greed by unleashing these tools and
saying I will worry about the result
later and then the media companies were
driven by fear like oh my god I’m gonna
have less money to basically eat shrimp
and cocktails and champagne and now that
these bills have been drafted and it
scares the living daylights out of the
tech firms it’s almost like the opposite
where the tech companies are now being
driven by fear and the VCS are being
driven by fear and the Tet and the
traditional media companies all said and
there are the greedy ones who are like
oh my god we can destroy the internet
and take everything back but at the end
of the day I think look at all the great
things that you know the Internet is
done and the world wide web is done I
don’t understand how anybody including
the traditional media companies could
actually be in favor of this I don’t
think they expect this to pass I don’t
even think they want this to pass but I
think they want to use a very very hard
tactic with the tech and VC community to
say you guys have to play ball now I
will just say this if this does become
long and the DMCA blows up they should
be careful because i think the
uncertainty could be far greater and it
reminds her of that expression better
the devil you know than the devil you
don’t know and i do think that if the
DMCA is blown up then you’re going to
see like when when they killed Napster
what happened cazal came around all
these things came around that were far
far wilder and harder to contain the
Napster ever was so I think history
repeats itself and the traditional media
companies should be careful we’re gonna
take a short break come back for
lightning round
Please follow and like us: