I’m a very easy guy so my talk has three
parts a beginning middle and an end in
the beginning I will tell you what
democracy is
and why democracy as I will use that
word it’s grounded in a certain set of
values there are three of them I will
also tell you that three villains in my
story they are not Putin a gun and other
people
Trump they’re different villains
somewhat more dangerous villains that’s
gonna go down in the second part and I
will try to create a kind of immune
system against this particular threat
against democracy a threat which is a
threat to our very own minds and to the
human being as such and I will conclude
with a brief defense of the political
system I call Co immune ISM no it’s not
communism it’s Co immune ISM Co immune
ism is democracy grounded in an
unquestioned assumption of human rights
but we need to work our way to that view
too Co immune is my otherwise it sounds
too much like communism so part 1 the
beginning what is democracy so as I said
I used the word democracy in a certain
way the word democracy has many many
meanings it picks out a form of
government it refers to a kind of
administration to a system of
information processing on a bureaucratic
level to a representation of the
people’s will etc so the term democracy
means many things what I have in mind
when I talk about democracy as a value
something which is intrinsically
valuable I refer to really three pillars
and the three pillars are number one
human rights number two freedom and
number three equality so I will talk
about human rights freedom and equality
and I will defend them and now my three
villains enter the stage okay so they
say this all sounds very nice and maybe
democracy is a kind of value system and
not just an administration or form of
government
maybe there’s something deeper going on
a democracy but wait a minute okay
villain number one pessimism says human
life is so
complicated that we will always wind up
with dictatorship and something which
goes against democracy democracy has no
survival chance this is what the
pessimist says then we have my second
villain the relativist the relativist
says something like this well you’re
talking about democracy and human rights
here but really you’re just defending
Western hegemony or imperial standards
there are no universal human rights
there is no meaningful concept of
justice equality and freedom all there
is a local decisions to behave in a
certain way right so the Russians do
their thing the Chinese do their thing
and maybe the Europeans whoever they are
to some other thing right and the
Americans they do their thing and
they’re also exceptional etc so that’s
the relativist there are really no
universal values and whoever believes
that their universal values has a will
to power wants to dominate some other
group that’s the relativist and finally
the worst enemy but also the easiest to
defeat the nihilist
what does the nihilist say well the
nihilist believes that fundamentally
there are no values not even local ones
okay there are no Russian values no
Chinese values no German values zero
values okay so that’s the nihilist and
you see my villains get gradually worse
the pessimist kind of still has some
kind of hope but is in despair the
relativist wants to use us in his own
interest think of the Putin interviews
for instance that’s a nice case of
relativism and the nihilist wants to say
forget about all of this this is just a
ridiculous meaningless show okay it’s a
show about nothing let’s get started so
we need to meet our villains on their
own ground let’s build up our immune
system part number to the middle okay
that was the opening now we come to the
middle PR and those are my enemies it
does not stand for the People’s Republic
of North Korea though okay
PR and let’s start with number one
pessimism so why would anyone be a
pessimist so here’s an idea that
motivates pessimism in many people’s
minds including my own one so I know the
temptation here’s how pessimism
there’s widespread moral social and
political disagreement in any community
you know pretty much everybody else
agrees with everybody else on pretty
much everything when it comes to moral
social and political issues and this
also holds about yourself you disagree
with your former self you disagree with
your future self so there’s basically
only disagreement about say abortion
same-sex marriage the best form of
government vegetarianism feminism etc
people talk about these things and
they’re in widespread disagreement now
doesn’t this make it unlikely that there
are universal values and even if there
were universal values or moral truth
that could ground our insistence and
commitment to human rights even if there
were such truth we could never know what
they are because there’s too much
disagreement about among humans will
never sort us out this is what the
pessimist says okay but now let’s take a
closer look at that position and start
from a very different angle is there
really so much moral disagreement among
humans as the pessimist typically
imagines it I gather that this is false
and here’s why think about the opposite
case I think we all agree obviously
including all Chinese citizens or
Russian citizens etc fundamentally agree
that we should not torture children just
for fun we’ve probably also agreed that
we shouldn’t torture sentient creatures
just for fun we also agree that we
shouldn’t walk around our cities and
just hit people in the face for no
reason okay we also agree that civil war
is worse than peace even if someone
profits from civil war say war load the
wallet knows that something’s wrong it’s
civil war so if you know what the word
civil war means or if you know what the
word torture means or what the word rape
mean if you know what these words mean
then you know that they do not
characterize something that is good okay
so this is fundamental agreement among
all humans also there couldn’t be any
kind of disagreement without fundamental
agreement here
very simple argument from a different
context right so imagine we disagree
about all sorts of things in order to
disagree so that I can say something and
you say the opposite in order to
disagree we have to speak for instance
the same language you tell me something
that I can understand and I communicate
back so we agree for instance on the
fact that we exist that we can speak
that we communicate that I have 10
fingers etc so for any disagreement
there’s going to be a higher amount of
agreement in the world okay you can even
show this mathematically as it were in
philosophy we call this the principle of
charity it’s impossible to imagine
disagreement without a wider set of
agreement okay it’s a wonderful
philosophical insight that you have to
bear in mind also in the moral case no
moral disagreement without moral
agreement right trivially imagine i
morally disagree with you on a
particular kind of issue so i’m for
same-sex marriage and i just celebrated
what went down in germany and then I
meet someone probably no one from this
room I don’t know but I meet someone on
the streets of Berlin and he says well
I’m all against a terrible ok so I meet
like a homophobe falsely I never meet
them but I’m also not looking for them
so but imagine I meet this homophobic
person and I get into a fistfight right
I mean that’s not disagreement that’s a
fist fight so as long as I disagree with
the homophobe there’s room for an
exchange of arguments and therefore
moral agreement then we both agree that
fistfights are bad and that’s a good
starting point right build it up from
there I think it’s not that hard to go
from fist fights a bad to homophobia is
bad for certain people homosexuals and
also me I find us generally repulsive ok
so it’s bad for humanity and it’s pretty
much like fist fighting ok homophobia
looks a little less violent from the
outset then fist fighting but it’s
really not it’s a very violent thing so
we can build up from there so the
pessimist is fundamentally defeated
because the pessimist cannot generalize
on the basis of local moral disagreement
to fundamental disagreement among humans
also this has never been done there’s
always been in the history in the entire
history of ideas there’s always been the
claim that
people who live elsewhere in different
cultures as we say are probably very
different from us I mean look what they
do over there I mean every single
culture and every single local group
actually believes that look what they do
over there I mean that’s what we believe
in born about Berlin right and and well
unfortunately I think Berliners stopped
caring about us but we still kind of
care we still feel insulted that the
government moved here okay but be that
as it may we always have the fantasy
that the others are super different but
they’re really not because they’re human
beings
okay so moral disagreement rests on
moral agreement the pessimist is
defeated fundamentally now enter the
relativist what do we do against the
relativist the relativist says to quote
Frank Underwood the president from house
of cards one of the best TV shows right
there out there on the market right now
so to quote Frank Underwood sorry
spoiler alert there is no justice only
conquest this is what the relativist
says there is no justice only conquest
there are no moral values there are no
human rights there are only strategies
that make it look that pretend as if
there were human rights so when the
United Nations declared the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 this
was an imperialist strategy okay it
doesn’t look like that they say all
human beings are born equal and free etc
they don’t specify they don’t say this
is for Americans right or for Europeans
they speak about everyone but really
what they mean is it’s good far as
everyone subscribes to this okay then we
can sell whatever diet coke to Africa
that’s that’s the idea okay of the
relativist they’re really they really
have an agenda arguably the counter
declaration has an agenda so the that’s
a little bit difficult so that we know
there are many declarations of human
rights however say the Cairo declaration
for instance of you know universal human
rights also has some universal human
rights in there okay it’s never fully
local wherever you have the notion of a
human right which by the way you will
also already find an ancient Chinese
philosophy and of course in India etc
this
by itself is already universal wherever
you have the notion of the human being
you have the notion of universal moral
rights inviolable human dignity etc that
is extremely widespread okay so the
relativist again tells us something
that’s not the case when I say I want to
help you I really have a strategy I
don’t want to help you so the relativist
wants to reject kindness and create new
borders that’s what the relative
relativist wants to do Donald Trump is a
relativist Vladimir Putin is a
relativist very clearly right I mean
there’s a Russian democracy there’s an
American democracy etc there is no such
thing on the level of values there’s an
American administration there’s a
Russian administration but there’s no
American democracy no German democracy
there’s just democracy when it comes to
values okay so that’s all false
goodbye relativist one more villain in
my game then I hear list now he’s really
evil so we need to do something against
a nihilist here’s what the nihilist says
you think there are universal moral
values that are at the bottom of
democracy that are the foundations of
democracy in your sense of the values of
democracy but there really are no values
at all reality is just physical reality
plus evolutionary biology say okay so
all there is is the swarm of particles
electromagnetic radiation and certain
animals and the animals have of course
survival interests and in order to look
good in their own eyes they invent the
fantasy of values this is roughly the
story of Nietzsche who says well there
might be values but what is I quote him
now the value of these values and
Nietzsche says they have no value okay
the the values themselves have no value
they only serve a certain function in
the survival struggle of human beings
they are a function of the will to power
as he puts it okay a very widespread
idea which unfortunately is driving
large chunks of the so-called science of
sociology
I call this battering-ram sociology so
the idea that you can understand society
as a whole as nothing but a power
struggle okay so that would be the
nihilistic vision
of morality there really is no such
thing no values whatsoever just
particles and animals now what do we do
against a nihilist and this might be my
biggest weapon so I come to my
conclusion Co immune ISM now that you
see what the villain is and what the
villain wants to say and why it’s
dangerous I I want to give you a kind of
immune system that you already have I’m
not telling you news I’m just telling
you what you already know and what you
already know is this you experience your
everyday life every single situation as
value-laden for instance in this
particular situation everyone listening
to what I’m saying right in this room or
maybe on their screens is in a situation
where certain things can be done and
other things can’t I hope you don’t
start a fistfight right now I feel like
no one is going to attack me right now
so that’s great and the entire situation
comes to me in a moral or in a value
form values already in in that situation
imagine you go to a dinner there’s a
certain atmosphere we all know that
their atmospheres can be a good or a bad
atmosphere people can be kind people can
be suffering people can be violent and
we humans just have a sense for that
human experience as such the way we are
as humans puts us in touch with the
value of others so quiet Minh being and
so far as we are human beings our
experience is the ground of our values
that is why things such as suffering ok
play a crucial role in the justification
of human rights and of ethics in general
because suffering is so important in
human life we know we will all suffer
but there are other very valuable
experience not just the bad ones as it
were suffering suffering isn’t the only
origin of ethics there’s also something
like giving birth or falling in love
there’s good value-laden experience
there different kinds of value Laden
experience to be in war is horrible
always also for the soldier the soldier
doesn’t think that this is great it’s
great for the soldier insofar as the
soldier has to fight this war in place
his or her role for whatever reason but
no soldier things that this is
before like in the same sense in which I
enjoy a concert when I’m here you can’t
enjoy war in that particular sense
because there’s human experience and
human experience is the ground of our
ethical judgments and you cannot reduce
it to anything deeper let me illustrate
this with a very simple thought
experiment again so imagine you would
really conclude that all there is is the
physical universe and certain animals
that evolved in the physical universe
say us the human animal we evolved
somehow right and all that is to say
about the human being is what you have
what you can learn from biology and what
you can learn from biology about the
human being does not come with values
you can understand the behavior of
humans you can understand the makeup you
can also understand their suffering and
their kindness all right but it doesn’t
give you a justification for your values
so this is one way of being a nihilist
however even if our value experience is
of course grounded in our experience as
human animals this does not mean that it
can be reduced to that experience in one
word the human experience of value is
irreducible it is an independent reality
it is something that we can’t deny
however here’s the supervillain in one
word okay here’s what’s driving both the
pessimist the relativist and to some
extent also denialist the wish to deny
one’s own humanity as the American
philosopher Stanley Cavell has caught it
and he thinks that there’s nothing
stronger in humans than that wish we
want to get rid of our own humanity why
because we are responsible we are
fundamentally responsible for the
achievement of democracy where democracy
is nothing but my name for a system of
universally valid norms and these
university valid norms apply to everyone
regardless of where they come from how
they look at cetera just think of the
human rights so I want to conclude with
a very simple call to action defend the
objectivity of your own experience and
don’t let the pessimist relativist
annihilist
into your home we need to create a
community that is immune to these kinds
of unjustified
doubts that is a democracy based on Co
immune ISM thank you very much for your
attention
[Applause]
parts a beginning middle and an end in
the beginning I will tell you what
democracy is
and why democracy as I will use that
word it’s grounded in a certain set of
values there are three of them I will
also tell you that three villains in my
story they are not Putin a gun and other
people
Trump they’re different villains
somewhat more dangerous villains that’s
gonna go down in the second part and I
will try to create a kind of immune
system against this particular threat
against democracy a threat which is a
threat to our very own minds and to the
human being as such and I will conclude
with a brief defense of the political
system I call Co immune ISM no it’s not
communism it’s Co immune ISM Co immune
ism is democracy grounded in an
unquestioned assumption of human rights
but we need to work our way to that view
too Co immune is my otherwise it sounds
too much like communism so part 1 the
beginning what is democracy so as I said
I used the word democracy in a certain
way the word democracy has many many
meanings it picks out a form of
government it refers to a kind of
administration to a system of
information processing on a bureaucratic
level to a representation of the
people’s will etc so the term democracy
means many things what I have in mind
when I talk about democracy as a value
something which is intrinsically
valuable I refer to really three pillars
and the three pillars are number one
human rights number two freedom and
number three equality so I will talk
about human rights freedom and equality
and I will defend them and now my three
villains enter the stage okay so they
say this all sounds very nice and maybe
democracy is a kind of value system and
not just an administration or form of
government
maybe there’s something deeper going on
a democracy but wait a minute okay
villain number one pessimism says human
life is so
complicated that we will always wind up
with dictatorship and something which
goes against democracy democracy has no
survival chance this is what the
pessimist says then we have my second
villain the relativist the relativist
says something like this well you’re
talking about democracy and human rights
here but really you’re just defending
Western hegemony or imperial standards
there are no universal human rights
there is no meaningful concept of
justice equality and freedom all there
is a local decisions to behave in a
certain way right so the Russians do
their thing the Chinese do their thing
and maybe the Europeans whoever they are
to some other thing right and the
Americans they do their thing and
they’re also exceptional etc so that’s
the relativist there are really no
universal values and whoever believes
that their universal values has a will
to power wants to dominate some other
group that’s the relativist and finally
the worst enemy but also the easiest to
defeat the nihilist
what does the nihilist say well the
nihilist believes that fundamentally
there are no values not even local ones
okay there are no Russian values no
Chinese values no German values zero
values okay so that’s the nihilist and
you see my villains get gradually worse
the pessimist kind of still has some
kind of hope but is in despair the
relativist wants to use us in his own
interest think of the Putin interviews
for instance that’s a nice case of
relativism and the nihilist wants to say
forget about all of this this is just a
ridiculous meaningless show okay it’s a
show about nothing let’s get started so
we need to meet our villains on their
own ground let’s build up our immune
system part number to the middle okay
that was the opening now we come to the
middle PR and those are my enemies it
does not stand for the People’s Republic
of North Korea though okay
PR and let’s start with number one
pessimism so why would anyone be a
pessimist so here’s an idea that
motivates pessimism in many people’s
minds including my own one so I know the
temptation here’s how pessimism
there’s widespread moral social and
political disagreement in any community
you know pretty much everybody else
agrees with everybody else on pretty
much everything when it comes to moral
social and political issues and this
also holds about yourself you disagree
with your former self you disagree with
your future self so there’s basically
only disagreement about say abortion
same-sex marriage the best form of
government vegetarianism feminism etc
people talk about these things and
they’re in widespread disagreement now
doesn’t this make it unlikely that there
are universal values and even if there
were universal values or moral truth
that could ground our insistence and
commitment to human rights even if there
were such truth we could never know what
they are because there’s too much
disagreement about among humans will
never sort us out this is what the
pessimist says okay but now let’s take a
closer look at that position and start
from a very different angle is there
really so much moral disagreement among
humans as the pessimist typically
imagines it I gather that this is false
and here’s why think about the opposite
case I think we all agree obviously
including all Chinese citizens or
Russian citizens etc fundamentally agree
that we should not torture children just
for fun we’ve probably also agreed that
we shouldn’t torture sentient creatures
just for fun we also agree that we
shouldn’t walk around our cities and
just hit people in the face for no
reason okay we also agree that civil war
is worse than peace even if someone
profits from civil war say war load the
wallet knows that something’s wrong it’s
civil war so if you know what the word
civil war means or if you know what the
word torture means or what the word rape
mean if you know what these words mean
then you know that they do not
characterize something that is good okay
so this is fundamental agreement among
all humans also there couldn’t be any
kind of disagreement without fundamental
agreement here
very simple argument from a different
context right so imagine we disagree
about all sorts of things in order to
disagree so that I can say something and
you say the opposite in order to
disagree we have to speak for instance
the same language you tell me something
that I can understand and I communicate
back so we agree for instance on the
fact that we exist that we can speak
that we communicate that I have 10
fingers etc so for any disagreement
there’s going to be a higher amount of
agreement in the world okay you can even
show this mathematically as it were in
philosophy we call this the principle of
charity it’s impossible to imagine
disagreement without a wider set of
agreement okay it’s a wonderful
philosophical insight that you have to
bear in mind also in the moral case no
moral disagreement without moral
agreement right trivially imagine i
morally disagree with you on a
particular kind of issue so i’m for
same-sex marriage and i just celebrated
what went down in germany and then I
meet someone probably no one from this
room I don’t know but I meet someone on
the streets of Berlin and he says well
I’m all against a terrible ok so I meet
like a homophobe falsely I never meet
them but I’m also not looking for them
so but imagine I meet this homophobic
person and I get into a fistfight right
I mean that’s not disagreement that’s a
fist fight so as long as I disagree with
the homophobe there’s room for an
exchange of arguments and therefore
moral agreement then we both agree that
fistfights are bad and that’s a good
starting point right build it up from
there I think it’s not that hard to go
from fist fights a bad to homophobia is
bad for certain people homosexuals and
also me I find us generally repulsive ok
so it’s bad for humanity and it’s pretty
much like fist fighting ok homophobia
looks a little less violent from the
outset then fist fighting but it’s
really not it’s a very violent thing so
we can build up from there so the
pessimist is fundamentally defeated
because the pessimist cannot generalize
on the basis of local moral disagreement
to fundamental disagreement among humans
also this has never been done there’s
always been in the history in the entire
history of ideas there’s always been the
claim that
people who live elsewhere in different
cultures as we say are probably very
different from us I mean look what they
do over there I mean every single
culture and every single local group
actually believes that look what they do
over there I mean that’s what we believe
in born about Berlin right and and well
unfortunately I think Berliners stopped
caring about us but we still kind of
care we still feel insulted that the
government moved here okay but be that
as it may we always have the fantasy
that the others are super different but
they’re really not because they’re human
beings
okay so moral disagreement rests on
moral agreement the pessimist is
defeated fundamentally now enter the
relativist what do we do against the
relativist the relativist says to quote
Frank Underwood the president from house
of cards one of the best TV shows right
there out there on the market right now
so to quote Frank Underwood sorry
spoiler alert there is no justice only
conquest this is what the relativist
says there is no justice only conquest
there are no moral values there are no
human rights there are only strategies
that make it look that pretend as if
there were human rights so when the
United Nations declared the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 this
was an imperialist strategy okay it
doesn’t look like that they say all
human beings are born equal and free etc
they don’t specify they don’t say this
is for Americans right or for Europeans
they speak about everyone but really
what they mean is it’s good far as
everyone subscribes to this okay then we
can sell whatever diet coke to Africa
that’s that’s the idea okay of the
relativist they’re really they really
have an agenda arguably the counter
declaration has an agenda so the that’s
a little bit difficult so that we know
there are many declarations of human
rights however say the Cairo declaration
for instance of you know universal human
rights also has some universal human
rights in there okay it’s never fully
local wherever you have the notion of a
human right which by the way you will
also already find an ancient Chinese
philosophy and of course in India etc
this
by itself is already universal wherever
you have the notion of the human being
you have the notion of universal moral
rights inviolable human dignity etc that
is extremely widespread okay so the
relativist again tells us something
that’s not the case when I say I want to
help you I really have a strategy I
don’t want to help you so the relativist
wants to reject kindness and create new
borders that’s what the relative
relativist wants to do Donald Trump is a
relativist Vladimir Putin is a
relativist very clearly right I mean
there’s a Russian democracy there’s an
American democracy etc there is no such
thing on the level of values there’s an
American administration there’s a
Russian administration but there’s no
American democracy no German democracy
there’s just democracy when it comes to
values okay so that’s all false
goodbye relativist one more villain in
my game then I hear list now he’s really
evil so we need to do something against
a nihilist here’s what the nihilist says
you think there are universal moral
values that are at the bottom of
democracy that are the foundations of
democracy in your sense of the values of
democracy but there really are no values
at all reality is just physical reality
plus evolutionary biology say okay so
all there is is the swarm of particles
electromagnetic radiation and certain
animals and the animals have of course
survival interests and in order to look
good in their own eyes they invent the
fantasy of values this is roughly the
story of Nietzsche who says well there
might be values but what is I quote him
now the value of these values and
Nietzsche says they have no value okay
the the values themselves have no value
they only serve a certain function in
the survival struggle of human beings
they are a function of the will to power
as he puts it okay a very widespread
idea which unfortunately is driving
large chunks of the so-called science of
sociology
I call this battering-ram sociology so
the idea that you can understand society
as a whole as nothing but a power
struggle okay so that would be the
nihilistic vision
of morality there really is no such
thing no values whatsoever just
particles and animals now what do we do
against a nihilist and this might be my
biggest weapon so I come to my
conclusion Co immune ISM now that you
see what the villain is and what the
villain wants to say and why it’s
dangerous I I want to give you a kind of
immune system that you already have I’m
not telling you news I’m just telling
you what you already know and what you
already know is this you experience your
everyday life every single situation as
value-laden for instance in this
particular situation everyone listening
to what I’m saying right in this room or
maybe on their screens is in a situation
where certain things can be done and
other things can’t I hope you don’t
start a fistfight right now I feel like
no one is going to attack me right now
so that’s great and the entire situation
comes to me in a moral or in a value
form values already in in that situation
imagine you go to a dinner there’s a
certain atmosphere we all know that
their atmospheres can be a good or a bad
atmosphere people can be kind people can
be suffering people can be violent and
we humans just have a sense for that
human experience as such the way we are
as humans puts us in touch with the
value of others so quiet Minh being and
so far as we are human beings our
experience is the ground of our values
that is why things such as suffering ok
play a crucial role in the justification
of human rights and of ethics in general
because suffering is so important in
human life we know we will all suffer
but there are other very valuable
experience not just the bad ones as it
were suffering suffering isn’t the only
origin of ethics there’s also something
like giving birth or falling in love
there’s good value-laden experience
there different kinds of value Laden
experience to be in war is horrible
always also for the soldier the soldier
doesn’t think that this is great it’s
great for the soldier insofar as the
soldier has to fight this war in place
his or her role for whatever reason but
no soldier things that this is
before like in the same sense in which I
enjoy a concert when I’m here you can’t
enjoy war in that particular sense
because there’s human experience and
human experience is the ground of our
ethical judgments and you cannot reduce
it to anything deeper let me illustrate
this with a very simple thought
experiment again so imagine you would
really conclude that all there is is the
physical universe and certain animals
that evolved in the physical universe
say us the human animal we evolved
somehow right and all that is to say
about the human being is what you have
what you can learn from biology and what
you can learn from biology about the
human being does not come with values
you can understand the behavior of
humans you can understand the makeup you
can also understand their suffering and
their kindness all right but it doesn’t
give you a justification for your values
so this is one way of being a nihilist
however even if our value experience is
of course grounded in our experience as
human animals this does not mean that it
can be reduced to that experience in one
word the human experience of value is
irreducible it is an independent reality
it is something that we can’t deny
however here’s the supervillain in one
word okay here’s what’s driving both the
pessimist the relativist and to some
extent also denialist the wish to deny
one’s own humanity as the American
philosopher Stanley Cavell has caught it
and he thinks that there’s nothing
stronger in humans than that wish we
want to get rid of our own humanity why
because we are responsible we are
fundamentally responsible for the
achievement of democracy where democracy
is nothing but my name for a system of
universally valid norms and these
university valid norms apply to everyone
regardless of where they come from how
they look at cetera just think of the
human rights so I want to conclude with
a very simple call to action defend the
objectivity of your own experience and
don’t let the pessimist relativist
annihilist
into your home we need to create a
community that is immune to these kinds
of unjustified
doubts that is a democracy based on Co
immune ISM thank you very much for your
attention
[Applause]
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