Translator: Claudia Sander Reviewer: Cristina Bufi-Pöcksteiner
Is it possible for us to establish human relationships?
without the intermediation of money?
Well, until a few years ago,
I took my life according to the manual of the traditional life.
I did engineering at a renowned college,
then I got a job at a multinational, I stayed a few years,
until I left the job aside to start a business, entrepreneurship.
But in 2007, I had a diagnosis of a cancer, very aggressive,
and this has given a turning point in my life.
The proximity to death
made me change my vision a long time,
this issue of working hard, saving money, raising money,
prosper and think a lot in the future.
I changed that a bit, I came to value the present moment more,
even because, at that time,
I did not know if I was going to live much longer than a few months.
But everything went well, I did the treatment and that’s okay.
So I came to value the present moment very much.
After a while, I got rid of the company,
I decided to dedicate myself to yoga,
I was teaching yoga for a few years.
Until, at a certain point, a new decision.
Something that always made sense to me was to travel,
I really wanted to travel, and I said:
“Then I’ll do what I want to do, right now.”
I left the yoga work aside and fell on the road.
In what way?
I decided to travel,
take a long-term trip, even without having the money for it.
I was driving around on the side of the road,
something that nowadays is not so common, but it is possible to do.
I slept in the house of people I met along the way.
My intention was, in the first moment,
know the Northeast, then the North,
some countries neighboring Brazil.
I had no contact,
so I would meet people online or in person,
and was getting somewhere to sleep.
And food, which is a question I always ask myself:
“But how can you eat? Are not you hungry?”
There are several ways I could get food in a variety of ways,
It’s easier than it looks.
One of these places I visited was Barra Grande on the coast of Bahia,
a very beautiful place.
A very nice beach.
I decided to go there at the last minute, had no prior contact,
I did not know anyone, it’s a small village,
and I went with the face and the courage.
Arriving there, the first challenge was to get a place to sleep.
So as I had no known there, no contact,
I’ve been knocking door to door,
mainly in hostels, lodges and campings,
offering work in exchange for hosting.
It would be a few days.
And of course,
the first 10, 15 doors that I hit,
they said, “We do not need, we do not want to.”
Until, already getting dark at the end of the day,
I found Ivete, from Camping Ivete
which is also in a great location,
has a beautiful sunset in the front.
I arrived to Ivete and made this proposal, I quickly told my story
and she said, “OK, I’ll accept you.”
I was still at the beginning of the trip,
with this somewhat formal work mentality,
I already wanted to negotiate with her what I was going to do.
“But what am I going to do? What are the activities?
How much work time? “
She said: “Ah relax, set up your tent, sleep, rest,
take a shower, we’ll talk tomorrow. “
And that was the mood for help.
Basically, every morning I woke up,
I was going to talk to her, she would give me some cleaning.
One day was cleaning the toilets, another day was cleaning the kitchen.
Do some general service, which lasted one to two hours.
For me it was a fair exchange, because I did it very quickly in the morning,
and had the rest of the day off,
because I was there to enjoy and not to stay working all day.
And I had a safe place to leave my things, which is important too.
Having a place to sleep, what’s the next step?
Get food.
And I was willing, too, to test different approaches.
So the first approach I wanted to do was eat junk.
That shocks a little, right? Eating rubbish.
I went to some grocery stores
to ask for fruits and vegetables that were not going to be sold anymore.
You know that fruit that is already kneaded, a vegetable that already has a little tip,
the one who is not so handsome anymore to sell,
but that can still be availed.
And I got in the markets that I was.
One of them was very interesting because I not only got the vegetables,
as the person who answered me made a point of going to the local kitchen,
cut the ugly parts,
pack in a plastic film and deliver myself, so … very careful.
I was impressed, I said:
“How interesting, you’re asking for garbage and earning such a beautiful thing.”
The other strategy is that I really wanted to go in a bakery to ask for old bread.
Then I went to the first bakery and took a chair tea.
The owner did not say “no”, but he did not answer me.
Normal.
When you are in such a situation,
you have to be prepared for these situations.
I said, “I will not stay here all day,
because of having this experience of old bread. “
Then I went to the next bakery and went straight to the manager.
I explained my situation and he said:
“You will not eat old bread, sit there,
I’ll have two breads on the plate with butter and a coffee for you. “
Then I had a nice “coffee” in the morning.
And the head of this place was attuned to my story.
And we kept talking, too, because when you have free time,
you talk to people, it’s nice, it establishes relationships.
And then he took it, took out $ 5 and gave it to me.
That was 2014, but it was symbolic,
the chapeiro gave me $ 5.
At that time I could buy something for $ 5.
Then I said: “With R $ 5 also do not do much,
so it will not solve so much for me. “
I turned to the manager and said, “Do you know Ivete from the campsite?”
“Oh I know!”
“I’m staying there, she was very nice to me.
“Comes.”
“What does she buy here?” “That coffee there, that brand.”
I gave to buy coffee with that money.
And there’s a change left, I bought a little chocolate, something like that.
I went and gave it to Ivete as a gift.
It was a symbolic thing too, but I felt like doing it,
by the way she opened herself to me, to receive me, without asking,
without wanting to know who I was, simply because I needed it.
And she too needed strength.
Well, another interesting thing,
which seems to conspire at times when you’re open.
The campsite had hoses, several hoses and several coconut trees
in the camping itself, there were nets protecting the tents
because they fell, and could break a tent.
So I did not even need to reap,
I had mango and dry coconut and green coconut, every day on the ground.
Amazing! Then a part of my nutrition …
And even the manga from Bahia is fantastic!
I took some of the calories out of it,
especially dry coconut, which is very caloric.
Well, one fine day,
along with the camping staff and other people who were showing up,
we decided to take a long walk to get to know some natural pools,
and each one was going to take his food.
It was a full day trip, to go back at night
and I took it I think manga; mango and coconut.
(Laughs)
And in this group had a guy who was five years ago, a Brazilian from Bahia,
for five years having a nomadic life, and he began to position himself in the group
as if I were a leader, spiritual guru, I do not know, something like that.
I found it interesting and I was observing: “I’ll learn from this guy”.
At one point I had green coconut.
Then he said: “I’ll explain to you how to handle the green coconut.
It’s easier to take it off. “
How to open a green coconut with a simple kitchen knife,
he taught us to get water.
Cool!
In another moment, we arrived at some taller coconut trees
that there the coconut falls, the coconut dry, where does the dry coconut come from?
I learned, he taught me: the dry coconut is the one that is on the ground.
And to choose? It has to shake.
He taught me how to choose dry coconut, cool!
How to open? How to remove the bark? How to open a coconut harder to open?
Take the water and eat the pulp.
And he taught me something very interesting,
that I’ve never had experience in life in this regard: the coconut apple.
Probably few here must have heard.
When the dry coconut is on the ground in the sand,
and it begins to sprout to turn a new coconut tree,
a ball that looks like an apple, white,
delicious, but sadly for you to be able to eat,
You have to kill that coconut tree.
So I’ll confess, I killed a coconut tree in my life.
(Laughs)
It was a once in a lifetime, I do not intend to do more, but it was very cool.
But what was coolest of this guy,
his experience of being a spiritual leader was time to eat.
It was not just to come and eat.
We sat down, someone spread a cloth,
and everyone put what was in the cloth.
So far, picnic, nothing too much, but he wanted to encourage sharing.
So he … I’ll explain in a simpler way.
He had an apple, not only did you get the apple that’s there and eat it.
You took a bite of the apple, passed it to the side, you took a bite.
And so we would take turns eating.
I found it very cool, because that was very symbolic.
It was a bit strange at the time, but it was symbolic.
It was one of the things I took for myself.
Whenever I have food, mainly traveling,
in this condition of mine, half devoid, I will always divide what I have.
Especially the hot things, because I think dividing, comes more.
So it was something I learned a lot there.
Another way I got food –
have had others, but I will summarize, by the time of the lecture –
which was very symbolic too,
the camping staff, which I naturally became friends with,
those who were encamped, began to offer me their food.
Because one thing I have is not to beg for it.
Even when I have nothing, I do not ask.
I stay in mine, if the person wants to offer me I accept, but if not …
I have my means to achieve it.
And they began to offer me food and I accepted.
The justification was very interesting: “You’re cleaning up our dirt.
We dirty the bathroom, you clean, we dirty the kitchen, you clean,
nothing is fairer than you eating our food. “
And another thing that happened in this camping, very interesting,
Ivete had hired a boy …
She was alone,
and she was very tired, she is already a grandmother,
that year-end camping rush,
New Year’s Eve in Bahia, summer and alone, supercansada.
And she hired a guy to clean the camp site.
It was $ 50 at the time cleaning, and the boy would not come,
he would come, stay a little and leave, not finish,
did a general cleaning in the campground.
She arrived: “Roger, clean here for me.”
And I did this cleaning,
which was a bit heavier, but in two hours I finished.
And the camping, at the time, cost R $ 15.
So the cleaning I did for $ 50 would be about three nights at the campground.
So theoretically I could stay three nights at random,
but this kind of account, I do not, I did not,
because our exchange was not mathematical.
What I did not want was this business relationship,
I wanted a spontaneous relationship: I helped, she helped me.
And she was much happier than the boy she was paying.
To see how sometimes an exchange without money can be made
in a more humane, closer, uninvolved way.
And our relationship was so cool,
that I ended up earning her a gift sheet.
Look how interesting, a sheet.
I needed a sheet, she had it, she gave it to me, it was very striking.
I think I’ll never forget Ivete again.
And I stayed two years, establishing relationships of this kind with several people;
relations, which were not mediated by money.
What happens when you do not have money intermediating?
In such relationships,
what I call interest interest.
So I stayed two years, practically without relating to people
that they had some self-interest about me or me about them.
It stands to reason that all relationships are based on some kind of interest.
It’s natural, normal.
What I call interest interest, which money provides,
is when one person approaches another and establishes a friendship, a relationship,
seeking some sort of advantage: an indication of customers
or a public office, or a job, or even some social status,
a loan, something like that.
I know we’ll eventually have these relationships, but I’m looking for,
more and more, decrease the amount of these relationships in my life.
I want relationships that are based on another logic.
This experience, of staying two years living in this way,
she showed me that when you do not have the money intermediation,
we can have a frank, more open, more honest,
transparent.
Because there are no interests that go beyond their own coexistence.
What could I, as a nomad, offer to the various people who helped me?
The various people who gave me a ride, who stayed me, who gave me food,
or some other kind of support.
What could I offer?
Basically, my time, my attention and some of my stories,
and maybe some arm help, some service, nothing more.
So these people approached me spontaneously because they wanted to.
And I felt in them the desire to help.
So I could see, through these relationships not ruled by money,
something that every human being has of very precious within him,
which is generosity; all we have.
I very much believe today.
that if we can give ourselves to others, how these people gave themselves to me
and how I gave myself to them in a way too.
If we can do something for others, I’m sure it will return,
the universe brings us.
And when I talk about doing something for others,
it is not necessarily religious charity, which is also important,
that a lot of people dedicate themselves and it’s cool.
But I say, do something in your day to day, with your skills, with your time,
with what you have learned, with your attention, by others,
without expecting anything in return.
If we make a part of our time dedicated to this,
I’m sure this will return,
including materially.
I have full conviction
that at least part of our material needs
can be supplied, including through this type of relationship,
that do not involve a contract, a money, an expectation of return.
Then returning to the original, initial question of the lecture.
Is it possible to establish human relations without the intermediation of money?
I believe that not only is it possible, as it is very gratifying.
And I want to take that kind of relationship for the rest of my life.
Thank you very much.
(Applause)
Is it possible for us to establish human relationships?
without the intermediation of money?
Well, until a few years ago,
I took my life according to the manual of the traditional life.
I did engineering at a renowned college,
then I got a job at a multinational, I stayed a few years,
until I left the job aside to start a business, entrepreneurship.
But in 2007, I had a diagnosis of a cancer, very aggressive,
and this has given a turning point in my life.
The proximity to death
made me change my vision a long time,
this issue of working hard, saving money, raising money,
prosper and think a lot in the future.
I changed that a bit, I came to value the present moment more,
even because, at that time,
I did not know if I was going to live much longer than a few months.
But everything went well, I did the treatment and that’s okay.
So I came to value the present moment very much.
After a while, I got rid of the company,
I decided to dedicate myself to yoga,
I was teaching yoga for a few years.
Until, at a certain point, a new decision.
Something that always made sense to me was to travel,
I really wanted to travel, and I said:
“Then I’ll do what I want to do, right now.”
I left the yoga work aside and fell on the road.
In what way?
I decided to travel,
take a long-term trip, even without having the money for it.
I was driving around on the side of the road,
something that nowadays is not so common, but it is possible to do.
I slept in the house of people I met along the way.
My intention was, in the first moment,
know the Northeast, then the North,
some countries neighboring Brazil.
I had no contact,
so I would meet people online or in person,
and was getting somewhere to sleep.
And food, which is a question I always ask myself:
“But how can you eat? Are not you hungry?”
There are several ways I could get food in a variety of ways,
It’s easier than it looks.
One of these places I visited was Barra Grande on the coast of Bahia,
a very beautiful place.
A very nice beach.
I decided to go there at the last minute, had no prior contact,
I did not know anyone, it’s a small village,
and I went with the face and the courage.
Arriving there, the first challenge was to get a place to sleep.
So as I had no known there, no contact,
I’ve been knocking door to door,
mainly in hostels, lodges and campings,
offering work in exchange for hosting.
It would be a few days.
And of course,
the first 10, 15 doors that I hit,
they said, “We do not need, we do not want to.”
Until, already getting dark at the end of the day,
I found Ivete, from Camping Ivete
which is also in a great location,
has a beautiful sunset in the front.
I arrived to Ivete and made this proposal, I quickly told my story
and she said, “OK, I’ll accept you.”
I was still at the beginning of the trip,
with this somewhat formal work mentality,
I already wanted to negotiate with her what I was going to do.
“But what am I going to do? What are the activities?
How much work time? “
She said: “Ah relax, set up your tent, sleep, rest,
take a shower, we’ll talk tomorrow. “
And that was the mood for help.
Basically, every morning I woke up,
I was going to talk to her, she would give me some cleaning.
One day was cleaning the toilets, another day was cleaning the kitchen.
Do some general service, which lasted one to two hours.
For me it was a fair exchange, because I did it very quickly in the morning,
and had the rest of the day off,
because I was there to enjoy and not to stay working all day.
And I had a safe place to leave my things, which is important too.
Having a place to sleep, what’s the next step?
Get food.
And I was willing, too, to test different approaches.
So the first approach I wanted to do was eat junk.
That shocks a little, right? Eating rubbish.
I went to some grocery stores
to ask for fruits and vegetables that were not going to be sold anymore.
You know that fruit that is already kneaded, a vegetable that already has a little tip,
the one who is not so handsome anymore to sell,
but that can still be availed.
And I got in the markets that I was.
One of them was very interesting because I not only got the vegetables,
as the person who answered me made a point of going to the local kitchen,
cut the ugly parts,
pack in a plastic film and deliver myself, so … very careful.
I was impressed, I said:
“How interesting, you’re asking for garbage and earning such a beautiful thing.”
The other strategy is that I really wanted to go in a bakery to ask for old bread.
Then I went to the first bakery and took a chair tea.
The owner did not say “no”, but he did not answer me.
Normal.
When you are in such a situation,
you have to be prepared for these situations.
I said, “I will not stay here all day,
because of having this experience of old bread. “
Then I went to the next bakery and went straight to the manager.
I explained my situation and he said:
“You will not eat old bread, sit there,
I’ll have two breads on the plate with butter and a coffee for you. “
Then I had a nice “coffee” in the morning.
And the head of this place was attuned to my story.
And we kept talking, too, because when you have free time,
you talk to people, it’s nice, it establishes relationships.
And then he took it, took out $ 5 and gave it to me.
That was 2014, but it was symbolic,
the chapeiro gave me $ 5.
At that time I could buy something for $ 5.
Then I said: “With R $ 5 also do not do much,
so it will not solve so much for me. “
I turned to the manager and said, “Do you know Ivete from the campsite?”
“Oh I know!”
“I’m staying there, she was very nice to me.
“Comes.”
“What does she buy here?” “That coffee there, that brand.”
I gave to buy coffee with that money.
And there’s a change left, I bought a little chocolate, something like that.
I went and gave it to Ivete as a gift.
It was a symbolic thing too, but I felt like doing it,
by the way she opened herself to me, to receive me, without asking,
without wanting to know who I was, simply because I needed it.
And she too needed strength.
Well, another interesting thing,
which seems to conspire at times when you’re open.
The campsite had hoses, several hoses and several coconut trees
in the camping itself, there were nets protecting the tents
because they fell, and could break a tent.
So I did not even need to reap,
I had mango and dry coconut and green coconut, every day on the ground.
Amazing! Then a part of my nutrition …
And even the manga from Bahia is fantastic!
I took some of the calories out of it,
especially dry coconut, which is very caloric.
Well, one fine day,
along with the camping staff and other people who were showing up,
we decided to take a long walk to get to know some natural pools,
and each one was going to take his food.
It was a full day trip, to go back at night
and I took it I think manga; mango and coconut.
(Laughs)
And in this group had a guy who was five years ago, a Brazilian from Bahia,
for five years having a nomadic life, and he began to position himself in the group
as if I were a leader, spiritual guru, I do not know, something like that.
I found it interesting and I was observing: “I’ll learn from this guy”.
At one point I had green coconut.
Then he said: “I’ll explain to you how to handle the green coconut.
It’s easier to take it off. “
How to open a green coconut with a simple kitchen knife,
he taught us to get water.
Cool!
In another moment, we arrived at some taller coconut trees
that there the coconut falls, the coconut dry, where does the dry coconut come from?
I learned, he taught me: the dry coconut is the one that is on the ground.
And to choose? It has to shake.
He taught me how to choose dry coconut, cool!
How to open? How to remove the bark? How to open a coconut harder to open?
Take the water and eat the pulp.
And he taught me something very interesting,
that I’ve never had experience in life in this regard: the coconut apple.
Probably few here must have heard.
When the dry coconut is on the ground in the sand,
and it begins to sprout to turn a new coconut tree,
a ball that looks like an apple, white,
delicious, but sadly for you to be able to eat,
You have to kill that coconut tree.
So I’ll confess, I killed a coconut tree in my life.
(Laughs)
It was a once in a lifetime, I do not intend to do more, but it was very cool.
But what was coolest of this guy,
his experience of being a spiritual leader was time to eat.
It was not just to come and eat.
We sat down, someone spread a cloth,
and everyone put what was in the cloth.
So far, picnic, nothing too much, but he wanted to encourage sharing.
So he … I’ll explain in a simpler way.
He had an apple, not only did you get the apple that’s there and eat it.
You took a bite of the apple, passed it to the side, you took a bite.
And so we would take turns eating.
I found it very cool, because that was very symbolic.
It was a bit strange at the time, but it was symbolic.
It was one of the things I took for myself.
Whenever I have food, mainly traveling,
in this condition of mine, half devoid, I will always divide what I have.
Especially the hot things, because I think dividing, comes more.
So it was something I learned a lot there.
Another way I got food –
have had others, but I will summarize, by the time of the lecture –
which was very symbolic too,
the camping staff, which I naturally became friends with,
those who were encamped, began to offer me their food.
Because one thing I have is not to beg for it.
Even when I have nothing, I do not ask.
I stay in mine, if the person wants to offer me I accept, but if not …
I have my means to achieve it.
And they began to offer me food and I accepted.
The justification was very interesting: “You’re cleaning up our dirt.
We dirty the bathroom, you clean, we dirty the kitchen, you clean,
nothing is fairer than you eating our food. “
And another thing that happened in this camping, very interesting,
Ivete had hired a boy …
She was alone,
and she was very tired, she is already a grandmother,
that year-end camping rush,
New Year’s Eve in Bahia, summer and alone, supercansada.
And she hired a guy to clean the camp site.
It was $ 50 at the time cleaning, and the boy would not come,
he would come, stay a little and leave, not finish,
did a general cleaning in the campground.
She arrived: “Roger, clean here for me.”
And I did this cleaning,
which was a bit heavier, but in two hours I finished.
And the camping, at the time, cost R $ 15.
So the cleaning I did for $ 50 would be about three nights at the campground.
So theoretically I could stay three nights at random,
but this kind of account, I do not, I did not,
because our exchange was not mathematical.
What I did not want was this business relationship,
I wanted a spontaneous relationship: I helped, she helped me.
And she was much happier than the boy she was paying.
To see how sometimes an exchange without money can be made
in a more humane, closer, uninvolved way.
And our relationship was so cool,
that I ended up earning her a gift sheet.
Look how interesting, a sheet.
I needed a sheet, she had it, she gave it to me, it was very striking.
I think I’ll never forget Ivete again.
And I stayed two years, establishing relationships of this kind with several people;
relations, which were not mediated by money.
What happens when you do not have money intermediating?
In such relationships,
what I call interest interest.
So I stayed two years, practically without relating to people
that they had some self-interest about me or me about them.
It stands to reason that all relationships are based on some kind of interest.
It’s natural, normal.
What I call interest interest, which money provides,
is when one person approaches another and establishes a friendship, a relationship,
seeking some sort of advantage: an indication of customers
or a public office, or a job, or even some social status,
a loan, something like that.
I know we’ll eventually have these relationships, but I’m looking for,
more and more, decrease the amount of these relationships in my life.
I want relationships that are based on another logic.
This experience, of staying two years living in this way,
she showed me that when you do not have the money intermediation,
we can have a frank, more open, more honest,
transparent.
Because there are no interests that go beyond their own coexistence.
What could I, as a nomad, offer to the various people who helped me?
The various people who gave me a ride, who stayed me, who gave me food,
or some other kind of support.
What could I offer?
Basically, my time, my attention and some of my stories,
and maybe some arm help, some service, nothing more.
So these people approached me spontaneously because they wanted to.
And I felt in them the desire to help.
So I could see, through these relationships not ruled by money,
something that every human being has of very precious within him,
which is generosity; all we have.
I very much believe today.
that if we can give ourselves to others, how these people gave themselves to me
and how I gave myself to them in a way too.
If we can do something for others, I’m sure it will return,
the universe brings us.
And when I talk about doing something for others,
it is not necessarily religious charity, which is also important,
that a lot of people dedicate themselves and it’s cool.
But I say, do something in your day to day, with your skills, with your time,
with what you have learned, with your attention, by others,
without expecting anything in return.
If we make a part of our time dedicated to this,
I’m sure this will return,
including materially.
I have full conviction
that at least part of our material needs
can be supplied, including through this type of relationship,
that do not involve a contract, a money, an expectation of return.
Then returning to the original, initial question of the lecture.
Is it possible to establish human relations without the intermediation of money?
I believe that not only is it possible, as it is very gratifying.
And I want to take that kind of relationship for the rest of my life.
Thank you very much.
(Applause)
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