[Music]
well Christina spoke about Iran a
muslim-majority country let me expand it
to include the entire Muslim
Commonwealth and how it’s being
presented and represented to us when it
comes to the question of what are we
talking about when it comes to Muslims
in Islam the first question is how many
Muslims do we have in the world and the
answer is we don’t know because no one
can count all of them but at least we
can presume or we have a conventional
number and it’s 1.7 billion if he tried
to translate it into percentage it’s
almost a quarter of a population and the
demographic Institute’s they predict
that it’s going to rise so that by
sometime we’ll reach a third of the
human race it’s a fairly big number have
to admit now when it comes to the
countries that are Muslim majority
countries it’s once again almost a
quarter of all the world’s countries so
it’s around 50 plus if we think that
it’s about 200 countries that we have in
the world although we have a bit more
now many people believe that the
demographic center of Islam is in the
Arab world or in the Middle East but
then they are wrong hopefully none of
you thought so because the demographic
center of Islam is in South and
Southeast Asia with Indonesia being the
largest Muslim country with over 220
million people who are Muslim because
not all the people Indonesia are Muslim
but majority are so it’s just one
country that has 220 million then if you
go to Pakistan which is approaching fast
approaching 200 million then he have
India which is admittedly not a Muslim
majority country you have to make clear
in this but it has a range of 170
million Muslim population and then
Bangladesh which is also around 170
million so roughly Counting if we say
Indonesia Pakistan India and Bangladesh
will already have 700 million
people if you add several other
countries that contain either majorities
or at least big numbers of Muslims its
Nigeria with something like 90 million
by now probably then of course Iran
comes in with some 18 million and so on
so with eight countries you probably
have half of the Muslim population and
only Egypt Iran and Turkey each with
almost 80 million Muslims are in the
Middle East so the majority of Muslims
of the world’s Muslims today don’t even
live in the Middle East they live
somewhere else and you may ask
yourselves how much have you heard about
those countries and the people living
there but on the other hand of course
when we come to thinking about Muslims
in Islam I need to admit and you
probably would also go along that this
ample reporting of Muslims in Islam I
mean probably not a day passes without
us hearing on Muslims and Islam whatever
that might be I’m not suggesting
necessarily all the bad things but in
general so we might even say that
believers of no other religion received
this much public attention as Muslims
have you heard about Hindus or Buddhists
recently some of you might have of
course if you search for them you do
find information I’m not suggesting that
there’s no information it’s just that
it’s not sort of being forwarded to us
we don’t sort of get it even if we don’t
necessarily look for it but what is
interesting that much of the information
reporting on Muslims is actually on a
particular specific category of people
who are associated with Islam namely
jihadis if you retrace what you have
heard recently on Islam Muslims it’s
about the bad people or if you want bad
Muslims and I don’t necessarily suggest
that could be bad Muslims so I would say
this is paradox that purportedly
increasing cultural awareness through
this reporting and information and
access to that information of and
knowledge about Muslims and Islam in the
West is in fact counterproductive as it
entrenches their stigmatization and
other
so the paradox is we have so much
information and reporting on Islam we
might presume we know now much better
because if I asked you about Hinduism is
it well you know I don’t know I haven’t
heard anything so I just don’t know have
you heard about Muslims and Islam sure
absolutely so you know and I don’t think
we know I’m not saying you don’t know
but we generally in the West know so
with increase of reporting and knowledge
somehow seems not increase that’s the
paradox that I find and the dilemma that
I personally see is that the Western
public then you may decide whether you
belong to that Western public oscillates
between two extremes of presentation of
Muslims in Islam on the one hand we have
what I have termed as the moral panic
all Muslims are at least potentially
radical read jihadis are representative
of them and then Islam is a religion of
war violence whatever you want right but
then the other extremists were which I
have termed as apologetic it’s look you
know jihad is they’re not even Muslims
read real Muslims may not be radical and
Islam is actually a religion of peace
and I think we’re in trouble here if we
see only those two extremes whichever we
choose either jihadists are not only
Muslim but they are actually
representative of all the Muslims and
Islam or Jui how does that have nothing
to do with Islam and the real Muslims
are completely different I think then we
missed the point because then we see in
black and white whichever the two you
consider to be black and white and we
don’t get the point as to how complex
how colorful and fascinating the Muslim
Commonwealth I might say has become if
you want but it also has been that way
for a while so a rhetorical question of
who is what poor what describes Muslims
in Islam who a what represent or
represents Islam and Muslims whenever we
talk we hear talk of Muslims a
discussion an analytical approach or
whatever we very often hear these
convenient divides
well you know they’re liberal Muslims of
course versus conservative and the
liberal are probably the better ones or
at least we like them better and they’re
you know less troublesome than the
modern Muslims whoever they might be
and a traditionalists who are
troublesome and you could go on and on
rich versus poor bad educated versus
less educated urbanites versus
Prevention’s but even worse I would say
and I emphasize worse is the convenient
labels sunni versus xi a very often get
asked by journalists what we have been
seeing you know anywhere cut that Iran
Saudi Arabia or elsewhere isn’t that
between Sunni and Shia
it’s so relevant these labels are
irrelevant if you come to think about
the Islamic state and the people it has
been torturing and killing if we say
that Islamic state is Sunni if someone
thinks so then it’s the Sunnis who
suffer most so it’s so irrelevant but
even better you know you know inverted
sense fundamentalist extremist Islamist
terrorist whatever you want
we have these very convenient labels we
go by
we’re being socialized into them and if
I’m may use the social constructivist
framework we’re led to believe that they
the labels I mean carry contents and
they don’t they’re often not always but
they’re often they don’t so what is it
to be a Muslim today well we could think
along certain lines dimensions the
classical dimensions of Islam the legal
schools some of you might be aware of
these Messiah as they call in Arabic the
legal traditions there are a number of
them they have been around for a
thousand plus years and they’re still
there the mystical dimension of Islam
and many of you might be familiar with
it through the word where the title of
Sufism those of you have traveled to
Konya might have seen of levy dervishes
and they are just an example of Sufism
folk Islam that so-called living local
Islam
of course we may talk of modernizing
trends through westernization
secularization all the way to the point
of post religiousness it’s very often
when we think about Muslims in Islam we
think along the terms okay Muslim well
believer can a Muslim be non-believer
why not can Christians be non-believers
or at least not religious the answer is
yes why not
of course I have to admit we may talk of
fundamentalists even Islamists and
jihadis yes no denial that there are
people whom we may call jihadis but if
you come to think about the numbers how
many of those very very really literally
bad people they might be out there if we
say it’s 1% remember 1.7 billion it’s a
fairly big number one percent I would
say that if we could agree that there
might be out there a hundred seventy
thousand jihadis the people who are
ready to kill themselves while killing
the other 170,000 people this is a very
big number but if you translate into
percentage its point zero zero one
percent one hundred seventy thousand is
a big number I have to admit but
percentage-wise
it’s just a fringe group so we have a
funny shared game here the silent really
reported on majority the legal is the
traditionalist so whatever they are
called is there and it’s the majority
but we don’t really hear about them that
often we never really hear about the
minorities about those alternative
religiosity or even you know agnostics
maybe even out the state’s among Muslims
no they don’t count although
individually their groups might be small
but collectively that make it feel a big
share but we never hear about them so
who do we hear about the jihadis it’s
those people who have stolen the show
who have taken the seat of
representatives of Islam and Muslims all
at the expense of all the other
majorities and minorities together
and I find it a very big problem no
denial that there is this group which is
very problematic which needs to be
tackled and so on that’s it but how come
they have come to represent all the
Muslim Commonwealth I don’t get it
well I do get it because it’s in the
media on the lips of politicians and so
on but then you feel that this this
inverted representativeness where a very
non representative group actually what
mine claim to be representative but we
go along and we actually and trust them
with this you know sort of leadership
card or title which they don’t deserve
we know that so but where is the real
problem then I would say it’s of course
not so much in the volume of reporting
that’s even too much information on
Islam Muslims isn’t it or particularly
on individual Muslims a guy there out in
the suburbs of Brussels who you know
used to play football then he didn’t
play football he used to eat something
that he didn’t and so on it’s like do we
really need that information
it obscures this big picture which is a
set very colorful very interesting which
may not only maybe needs to be realized
and I’m glad listen I just showed you
how she personally realized that that
the diversity the difference even if you
want which is out there and those of you
have traveled to the Middle East and
elsewhere to the Muslim majority
countries you must have realized that
the reporting on Muslims in Islam and
your experiences probably diverged
greatly and this has been what I have
been experiencing traveling living and
so on and it’s you think that it’s two
realities so it’s not so much about the
volume as probably about the contents
and when I say contents it’s the target
groups if you want the people who are
being reported on so it’s about the
contents but also about the intention
and I always wonder what is the
intention on reporting in reporting on
Muslims in Islam is really to report on
or is it to let the people get what they
expect so this is a nexus between
expectations or supply and demand sort
of Nexus where people in the West seem
to expect the news on bad Muslims now if
I told you about punk bands somewhere in
a Muslim world or about even Satanists
in Morocco or heavy metal bands and
festivals in Iraq what is this do that
they do they do anything and everything
how come we allow ourselves to believe
that we can be whatever we want whatever
we choose to be and they for whatever
reason don’t know which reason but they
cannot be what they want they can and in
fact what is even more interesting they
are it’s only that we somehow mentally
deny them that ability or capability to
be what they might want to be but they
are so what is it for us it is to go out
maybe even physically Savior and
experience that diversity of the Muslim
Commonwealth and I don’t suggest all of
it is pleasant no but much of it is
really very pleasant nice welcoming of
us and we should be welcoming of them we
need to go out there and be trustful of
them so that they can be trustful of us
thank you
[Music]
well Christina spoke about Iran a
muslim-majority country let me expand it
to include the entire Muslim
Commonwealth and how it’s being
presented and represented to us when it
comes to the question of what are we
talking about when it comes to Muslims
in Islam the first question is how many
Muslims do we have in the world and the
answer is we don’t know because no one
can count all of them but at least we
can presume or we have a conventional
number and it’s 1.7 billion if he tried
to translate it into percentage it’s
almost a quarter of a population and the
demographic Institute’s they predict
that it’s going to rise so that by
sometime we’ll reach a third of the
human race it’s a fairly big number have
to admit now when it comes to the
countries that are Muslim majority
countries it’s once again almost a
quarter of all the world’s countries so
it’s around 50 plus if we think that
it’s about 200 countries that we have in
the world although we have a bit more
now many people believe that the
demographic center of Islam is in the
Arab world or in the Middle East but
then they are wrong hopefully none of
you thought so because the demographic
center of Islam is in South and
Southeast Asia with Indonesia being the
largest Muslim country with over 220
million people who are Muslim because
not all the people Indonesia are Muslim
but majority are so it’s just one
country that has 220 million then if you
go to Pakistan which is approaching fast
approaching 200 million then he have
India which is admittedly not a Muslim
majority country you have to make clear
in this but it has a range of 170
million Muslim population and then
Bangladesh which is also around 170
million so roughly Counting if we say
Indonesia Pakistan India and Bangladesh
will already have 700 million
people if you add several other
countries that contain either majorities
or at least big numbers of Muslims its
Nigeria with something like 90 million
by now probably then of course Iran
comes in with some 18 million and so on
so with eight countries you probably
have half of the Muslim population and
only Egypt Iran and Turkey each with
almost 80 million Muslims are in the
Middle East so the majority of Muslims
of the world’s Muslims today don’t even
live in the Middle East they live
somewhere else and you may ask
yourselves how much have you heard about
those countries and the people living
there but on the other hand of course
when we come to thinking about Muslims
in Islam I need to admit and you
probably would also go along that this
ample reporting of Muslims in Islam I
mean probably not a day passes without
us hearing on Muslims and Islam whatever
that might be I’m not suggesting
necessarily all the bad things but in
general so we might even say that
believers of no other religion received
this much public attention as Muslims
have you heard about Hindus or Buddhists
recently some of you might have of
course if you search for them you do
find information I’m not suggesting that
there’s no information it’s just that
it’s not sort of being forwarded to us
we don’t sort of get it even if we don’t
necessarily look for it but what is
interesting that much of the information
reporting on Muslims is actually on a
particular specific category of people
who are associated with Islam namely
jihadis if you retrace what you have
heard recently on Islam Muslims it’s
about the bad people or if you want bad
Muslims and I don’t necessarily suggest
that could be bad Muslims so I would say
this is paradox that purportedly
increasing cultural awareness through
this reporting and information and
access to that information of and
knowledge about Muslims and Islam in the
West is in fact counterproductive as it
entrenches their stigmatization and
other
so the paradox is we have so much
information and reporting on Islam we
might presume we know now much better
because if I asked you about Hinduism is
it well you know I don’t know I haven’t
heard anything so I just don’t know have
you heard about Muslims and Islam sure
absolutely so you know and I don’t think
we know I’m not saying you don’t know
but we generally in the West know so
with increase of reporting and knowledge
somehow seems not increase that’s the
paradox that I find and the dilemma that
I personally see is that the Western
public then you may decide whether you
belong to that Western public oscillates
between two extremes of presentation of
Muslims in Islam on the one hand we have
what I have termed as the moral panic
all Muslims are at least potentially
radical read jihadis are representative
of them and then Islam is a religion of
war violence whatever you want right but
then the other extremists were which I
have termed as apologetic it’s look you
know jihad is they’re not even Muslims
read real Muslims may not be radical and
Islam is actually a religion of peace
and I think we’re in trouble here if we
see only those two extremes whichever we
choose either jihadists are not only
Muslim but they are actually
representative of all the Muslims and
Islam or Jui how does that have nothing
to do with Islam and the real Muslims
are completely different I think then we
missed the point because then we see in
black and white whichever the two you
consider to be black and white and we
don’t get the point as to how complex
how colorful and fascinating the Muslim
Commonwealth I might say has become if
you want but it also has been that way
for a while so a rhetorical question of
who is what poor what describes Muslims
in Islam who a what represent or
represents Islam and Muslims whenever we
talk we hear talk of Muslims a
discussion an analytical approach or
whatever we very often hear these
convenient divides
well you know they’re liberal Muslims of
course versus conservative and the
liberal are probably the better ones or
at least we like them better and they’re
you know less troublesome than the
modern Muslims whoever they might be
and a traditionalists who are
troublesome and you could go on and on
rich versus poor bad educated versus
less educated urbanites versus
Prevention’s but even worse I would say
and I emphasize worse is the convenient
labels sunni versus xi a very often get
asked by journalists what we have been
seeing you know anywhere cut that Iran
Saudi Arabia or elsewhere isn’t that
between Sunni and Shia
it’s so relevant these labels are
irrelevant if you come to think about
the Islamic state and the people it has
been torturing and killing if we say
that Islamic state is Sunni if someone
thinks so then it’s the Sunnis who
suffer most so it’s so irrelevant but
even better you know you know inverted
sense fundamentalist extremist Islamist
terrorist whatever you want
we have these very convenient labels we
go by
we’re being socialized into them and if
I’m may use the social constructivist
framework we’re led to believe that they
the labels I mean carry contents and
they don’t they’re often not always but
they’re often they don’t so what is it
to be a Muslim today well we could think
along certain lines dimensions the
classical dimensions of Islam the legal
schools some of you might be aware of
these Messiah as they call in Arabic the
legal traditions there are a number of
them they have been around for a
thousand plus years and they’re still
there the mystical dimension of Islam
and many of you might be familiar with
it through the word where the title of
Sufism those of you have traveled to
Konya might have seen of levy dervishes
and they are just an example of Sufism
folk Islam that so-called living local
Islam
of course we may talk of modernizing
trends through westernization
secularization all the way to the point
of post religiousness it’s very often
when we think about Muslims in Islam we
think along the terms okay Muslim well
believer can a Muslim be non-believer
why not can Christians be non-believers
or at least not religious the answer is
yes why not
of course I have to admit we may talk of
fundamentalists even Islamists and
jihadis yes no denial that there are
people whom we may call jihadis but if
you come to think about the numbers how
many of those very very really literally
bad people they might be out there if we
say it’s 1% remember 1.7 billion it’s a
fairly big number one percent I would
say that if we could agree that there
might be out there a hundred seventy
thousand jihadis the people who are
ready to kill themselves while killing
the other 170,000 people this is a very
big number but if you translate into
percentage its point zero zero one
percent one hundred seventy thousand is
a big number I have to admit but
percentage-wise
it’s just a fringe group so we have a
funny shared game here the silent really
reported on majority the legal is the
traditionalist so whatever they are
called is there and it’s the majority
but we don’t really hear about them that
often we never really hear about the
minorities about those alternative
religiosity or even you know agnostics
maybe even out the state’s among Muslims
no they don’t count although
individually their groups might be small
but collectively that make it feel a big
share but we never hear about them so
who do we hear about the jihadis it’s
those people who have stolen the show
who have taken the seat of
representatives of Islam and Muslims all
at the expense of all the other
majorities and minorities together
and I find it a very big problem no
denial that there is this group which is
very problematic which needs to be
tackled and so on that’s it but how come
they have come to represent all the
Muslim Commonwealth I don’t get it
well I do get it because it’s in the
media on the lips of politicians and so
on but then you feel that this this
inverted representativeness where a very
non representative group actually what
mine claim to be representative but we
go along and we actually and trust them
with this you know sort of leadership
card or title which they don’t deserve
we know that so but where is the real
problem then I would say it’s of course
not so much in the volume of reporting
that’s even too much information on
Islam Muslims isn’t it or particularly
on individual Muslims a guy there out in
the suburbs of Brussels who you know
used to play football then he didn’t
play football he used to eat something
that he didn’t and so on it’s like do we
really need that information
it obscures this big picture which is a
set very colorful very interesting which
may not only maybe needs to be realized
and I’m glad listen I just showed you
how she personally realized that that
the diversity the difference even if you
want which is out there and those of you
have traveled to the Middle East and
elsewhere to the Muslim majority
countries you must have realized that
the reporting on Muslims in Islam and
your experiences probably diverged
greatly and this has been what I have
been experiencing traveling living and
so on and it’s you think that it’s two
realities so it’s not so much about the
volume as probably about the contents
and when I say contents it’s the target
groups if you want the people who are
being reported on so it’s about the
contents but also about the intention
and I always wonder what is the
intention on reporting in reporting on
Muslims in Islam is really to report on
or is it to let the people get what they
expect so this is a nexus between
expectations or supply and demand sort
of Nexus where people in the West seem
to expect the news on bad Muslims now if
I told you about punk bands somewhere in
a Muslim world or about even Satanists
in Morocco or heavy metal bands and
festivals in Iraq what is this do that
they do they do anything and everything
how come we allow ourselves to believe
that we can be whatever we want whatever
we choose to be and they for whatever
reason don’t know which reason but they
cannot be what they want they can and in
fact what is even more interesting they
are it’s only that we somehow mentally
deny them that ability or capability to
be what they might want to be but they
are so what is it for us it is to go out
maybe even physically Savior and
experience that diversity of the Muslim
Commonwealth and I don’t suggest all of
it is pleasant no but much of it is
really very pleasant nice welcoming of
us and we should be welcoming of them we
need to go out there and be trustful of
them so that they can be trustful of us
thank you
[Music]
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