[Music]
[Music]
[Applause]
few years ago when some of the students
were part of the organization I think
one of the name is Vetrov they
approached me with the idea of this
speaking here at the Ted event at bike I
said what should we be talking about you
know because and and and so probably
said that anything that really you
really passionate about to anything talk
about something that you really
passionate about did you really believe
in and I first thought of maybe I should
talk about media and freedom of
expression or cyberspace and social
media but then I just blurted it out and
I just said that can we talk about can I
talk about why none of the muslim
societies and countries is a genuine
democracy in fact i would say none of
the muslim countries is a democracy and
she said oh that’s interesting that’s
provocative and someone also said this
is very interesting I went on YouTube
and I typed GED TED Talks Pakistan in
more than 80,000 more than 80,000
entries with different titles came up
they were kind of repetitions as well
and I looked through the titles and the
subjects and I realized that most of the
TED talks are about a personal dream a
personal achievement dream through
Pakistan a certain kind of industrial
product technology art form literature
design I didn’t come across I couldn’t
find a single talk that touched religion
or Islam so I went to back to YouTube
the main YouTube and I typed Islam and
democracy and I came across more than
nine hundred thousand titles almost a
million titles and within these toy
titles I started looking surfing started
you know viewing those videos and I came
across lectures and discussions and
university talks by the likes of
professor tariq ramadhan who is now at
Oxford University originally from
Switzerland and shaadi Hamid the Iranian
region who is in scholar of Islam the
famous author for who’s not at the
Brookings Institution Institute in
Washington and who has was known for his
book Islamic exceptionalism a really
popular book that came up short while
ago and then I also came across the
scholars from this part for I mean most
a lot of the video stuff which you come
across in the lectures you come across
are from the Muslim spokespersons
spoilers from the Western world but I
also came across the scholars from this
part of the world a south asia pakistan
in india like zakir naik and dr. SAR and
tariq jameel Hamza Yusuf and so many
others the list is endless
and I found and I found a very
interesting dividing line a very
interesting dichotomy as to how the two
sets of scholars and commentators
addressed the issue of Islam and
democracy whereas the people who live in
the West the Muslims the Muslim
intelligence II of the West says well
Islam and democracy are compatible we
don’t see any problem you know Muslims
are diverse the Muslims are different
Pakistan Saudi Arabia Turkey Indonesia
Malaysia Tunisia Algeria everything is
different so Islam and Muslim world is
not a monolith but when you look at
these scholars that are there on the
YouTube from South Asia from this part
of the world you come across the organ
the look Islam and democracy are not
compatible of course they are not
compatible because Islam is the word of
God and democracy is a system by the
will of the people and the question that
comes to your mind is that of course the
God is not going to come down to the
earth to interpret his word he’s not
going to come down and explain what he
meant by his world that means muslims
intelligence here the intellectual and
muslim people have to interpret the word
of the god and this is the question i
want to leave in your mind and maybe i
get the opportunity to address it
towards the end but as a as a critic and
someone who is from the media and
communication within the Islamic
Republic of Pakistan it is not my cup of
tea is not my
I it’s not for me tutto be talking about
Islamophobia or the French energy to
hijab I have to talk I have to react I
have to be sensitized by what I see in
this country in this Lama crab-like of
Pakistan and there is a media and
communication person I saw in the last
two or three months that how people
unknown people who we never heard of the
bloggers were picked up by national
security agencies because they were
writing blasphemous contents and I am as
a common sense thinking what has
national security agencies of the state
have to do with blasphemy and that’s not
it that the matter disappeared without
any explanation one of the largest
Facebook page which had four million
plus Pakistanis see us abroad PK
suddenly boom disappears from the
Facebook and I find a tweet from this
house of door PK this is we just we just
lost a page we don’t know what really
happened
so I sent a direct tweet to the editor
of this asset or pk who was actually in
Canada I said to him what happened he
says we don’t know anything I mean we
just disappeared you know and we did I
said did you get a notice a notification
and alert of warning by Facebook this is
what the standard is he says nothing
we just disappeared was okay and and he
said what we have found out but after
the court trial the government of
Pakistan has entered into a secret
agreement with the Facebook and
according to that secret agreement you
know because my Bilal is here talking of
agreements so the Government of Pakistan
entered into secret agreement according
to see Asador PK and asked for the force
of the agreement Facebook has takedown
has to take down and suspend or take off
every page which the Government of
Pakistan recommends to them is injurious
to their interests which I said okay
what to do I said let me tell you
something I said write an email to be th
chairman PT a copy their to secretary
interior for Peter to secretary
information copied that was
such-and-such secretary and copy me on
that and copy all the television actors
and copy all the editors of extra bune
and on and you know Pakistan today and
Friday times and copy that to US embassy
and copy that to everybody and ask them
and ask them you know do you have an
agreement with Facebook because we have
just been down and Facebook is not even
responding
to our emails and he did that he copied
me on that and after 12 hours the PTA
responded did look we haven’t done
anything to us about PK we don’t know
what really happened to you but you know
we have an agreement but that is only we
have signed an agreement with Facebook
but there’s only related to the to the
blasphemous content but what PK was not
blasphemous C acid or PK is an
opposition site is a public debating
thing followed by 4 million people since
2008 since then since Twitter is my
weapon since then I have been tweeting
and I’ve been writing and I’ve been
sending emails to all the government
officials that you cannot sign a secret
agreement with Facebook why it is
important I want you to understand that
because I am is in television industry
I’m in media I know the political
narrative the creative narrative of the
Pakistan is not being shaped by
televisions it is not being shaped by
geo or dunya or express it’s not being
shaped by ary it is not being shaped by
Dawn and Express Tribune the creativity
of the Pakistani youth 65% people in
this country are less than 35 years of
age the creativity the ideas of the
Pakistani youth the questioning is
coming from the social media 40 million
Pakistanis are right now on Twitter and
on Facebook and these are the people the
executive authorities in this country in
all Muslim countries are afraid of so I
have been questioning this thing to all
the government authorities into this
point I have not received any answer to
this that how can you enter into a
secret agreement which has not been put
to judicial review which the Pakistani
media the civil society legal community
the judicial community have not really
seen how can you decide how can PTA or
interior ministry decide what is
blasphemous and how can you down pages
like Sadat DK or recommend to Facebook
that you can dump pages likes acid or PK
without giving them the right of
audience and right of hearing I haven’t
received any answer so when I look
because I exist here I’m not facing
Islamophobia her job French energy to
her job is not my issue with so many
Pakistanis keep on talking my issue my
sensitivity my reaction is towards what
I see over here
and when I see professor tariq ramadhan
who divides his time between Switzerland
and Oxford University and American think
tanks and Japanese universities and box
of the West’s bias towards Muslim or
shaadi Hamid the who talks of the
Islamic exceptionalism I feel like
saying that stop the hypocrisy tell me
how many Muslim countries run by Muslims
govern by Muslims administered by
Muslims are genuine democracies where
there is genuine rule of law where the
minorities and minority point of view is
protected and minority point of view is
very important minority point to you is
not necessarily the point of view of a
most of a religious minority it’s the
point is a minority point of view in art
it’s a minority point of view in
literature it’s the minority point of
view in science it’s a minority point of
view in politics where is minority point
of view rule of law liberal order being
exercised in any Muslim country while
doing this research I came across the
paper a research paper by a certain John
Anderson whose God matters written a few
years ago and they said that which is
which is which is a common theme which
is repeated in Western academic
literature again then again and again
and again which has been repeated by
Huntington Samuel Huntington in his
books by Francis Fukuyama the end of the
history and the theme that records is
that Muslim societies are not receptive
for democracy somehow the other the
democratic institutions do not take hold
in the Muslim societies well John and
the Sun paper makes two exceptions it
says the two exceptions two surprising
exceptions where there are some form of
democratic institutions and what are
those two exceptions Turkey and Pakistan
according to that paper now in the year
2017 we can probably add Indonesia
Malaysia and after the Innova the
political parties you know departure we
can probably add Tunisia to that but the
problem which I think as a commented
race the Muslim countries definition of
democracy is only restricted to two
things
absence of military on the top the
military is not visible on the top and
holding elections otherwise if you just
look at
Turkey which has been referred to as one
of the exceptions as a promising
democratic country I looked and checked
no transition of power from one regime
to the other in Turkey ever took place
without the military intervention
situation Pakistan is more or less the
same and now when the Turkish military
has become very weak and has been
decimated and done to death
president Aragon has completed 15 years
in power and he’s just held her friend
him which gives him now Authority
legitimacy in position and capacity to
be in power for another 10 years I mean
we’re in a Western liberal democracy you
can even conceive of someone you know
thinking of this kind of luxury or
staying in power for so long you know
this whenever the Muslim moving to the
next idea from my childhood school
college university television media
newspapers columnist the only argument
which we encounter from the Muslim
scholars when the talk of Islam and
democracy being compatible is kalafat a
rush to the time period of the rightly
guided caliphs but then we forget to
mention that how long ago that was 1,500
years ago and we don’t even talk the how
how what was the duration of the halawet
a rush to 26 years maybe 30 that’s it
what happened after this yes we have the
Golden Age of ideas Muslims had the
Golden Age of ideas between 8th and 11th
century 303 and 50 years of the Abbasid
era when Muslims were at the cutting
edge of modernity
democracy is a modernity idea so Muslims
at the time were more democratic than
any other society any other civilization
on the planet or of the known
civilization in terms and also they made
very original contributions to
mathematics to Sciences to physics to
chemistry algebra is the Muslim creation
chemistry and so on but what happened
then no one talks about that you know in
every television program every column in
will do newspapers in every discussion
in any television anyway
Oh in any university in this country you
go ahead ditches talk about the
philosophy Rasta so what about the 15
and it is there a pass since then you
know how many original ideas this is the
other question I want to throw into your
mind
how many original ideas Muslim scholars
or teaching places have created in the
last 800 years original ideas that have
changed the world that have impacted the
world how many times Muslim
intellectuals have produced calm or
shoppin ha or marks or nature or surfer
you know or Bertrand Russell or or even
someone like George Orwell I mean what a
brilliant dissection of the power in the
modern age has been done by the or alien
concept of George Orwell if we read if
anyone of you cares to read animal form
it’s a small book you can read in to
ours read animal form annual year right
you will realize it is no more about
this Stalinist Russia it is about this
place it is about this place read animal
form and you’ll find all the characters
of Pakistani politics and society
mentioned and the different names in the
animal form so coming to because when I
was discussing that or what did that
talk one of the idea was that you must
also mention the solutions so when we
talk we move toward the solutions I
think I I would address the question of
the solution in the form of a question
how many of the people here sitting in
this hall and all of those hundreds of
thousands maybe they get to watch this
video
however consciously realized understood
in a very clear sense the religions are
ideas Islam Christianity and Judaism are
ideas and ideas have to be interpreted
ideas cannot be fossilized in time and
space ideas to remain ideas ideas cannot
be made of wood and stone or pulp ideas
a living organic forms for ideas to
remain true to themselves the ideas have
to be interpreted and reinterpreted and
have to be understood and they have to
be
interpreted and reinterpreted with the
help of the modern sciences and the
knowledge as I said in the very
beginning the God will not come down to
earth to interpret his own idea there is
always a class of people that that act
in the name of the God and this is
happening across all the Muslim world
where there is a small is a class or
vested interest that interprets religion
in the name of the God the God is not
coming here and this brings me with the
last torque which I want to leave with
you this question should take us to the
10th the 11th century the time period
the brilliant time period the only real
brilliant time period of Muslim
civilization is between the 8th and 11th
century the Abbasid time period and that
is the time period when the Muslims were
at the cutting edge at the cutting edge
of the civilization every critic of
Muslim civilization and Islam admits to
the fact that Islam was the leading
force that changed the world and
transferred the Greek knowledge from the
Greek oh and Roman world to the modern
world and Islam was the connection but
they was the debate between Moses Allah
and acharya
Mota’s allah what are the lights or
Moses Allah what the rationalist that
believes that religion and God have to
be interpreted through the principles of
reason and rationality and then there
was a counter group of the Acharya the
traditionalists they believed the
revelation and word is more important
than reasoning the rationalist lost the
debate a thousand years ago in 10th and
11th century and off and we have a
thousand years of fossilized thinking no
muslim society or state will become
genuinely democratic unless we become
genuinely modern and we will not become
genuinely modern unless we learn to
dissect interpret and reinterpret the
ideas this is what i have to say thank
you so much
you
[Music]
[Music]
[Applause]
few years ago when some of the students
were part of the organization I think
one of the name is Vetrov they
approached me with the idea of this
speaking here at the Ted event at bike I
said what should we be talking about you
know because and and and so probably
said that anything that really you
really passionate about to anything talk
about something that you really
passionate about did you really believe
in and I first thought of maybe I should
talk about media and freedom of
expression or cyberspace and social
media but then I just blurted it out and
I just said that can we talk about can I
talk about why none of the muslim
societies and countries is a genuine
democracy in fact i would say none of
the muslim countries is a democracy and
she said oh that’s interesting that’s
provocative and someone also said this
is very interesting I went on YouTube
and I typed GED TED Talks Pakistan in
more than 80,000 more than 80,000
entries with different titles came up
they were kind of repetitions as well
and I looked through the titles and the
subjects and I realized that most of the
TED talks are about a personal dream a
personal achievement dream through
Pakistan a certain kind of industrial
product technology art form literature
design I didn’t come across I couldn’t
find a single talk that touched religion
or Islam so I went to back to YouTube
the main YouTube and I typed Islam and
democracy and I came across more than
nine hundred thousand titles almost a
million titles and within these toy
titles I started looking surfing started
you know viewing those videos and I came
across lectures and discussions and
university talks by the likes of
professor tariq ramadhan who is now at
Oxford University originally from
Switzerland and shaadi Hamid the Iranian
region who is in scholar of Islam the
famous author for who’s not at the
Brookings Institution Institute in
Washington and who has was known for his
book Islamic exceptionalism a really
popular book that came up short while
ago and then I also came across the
scholars from this part for I mean most
a lot of the video stuff which you come
across in the lectures you come across
are from the Muslim spokespersons
spoilers from the Western world but I
also came across the scholars from this
part of the world a south asia pakistan
in india like zakir naik and dr. SAR and
tariq jameel Hamza Yusuf and so many
others the list is endless
and I found and I found a very
interesting dividing line a very
interesting dichotomy as to how the two
sets of scholars and commentators
addressed the issue of Islam and
democracy whereas the people who live in
the West the Muslims the Muslim
intelligence II of the West says well
Islam and democracy are compatible we
don’t see any problem you know Muslims
are diverse the Muslims are different
Pakistan Saudi Arabia Turkey Indonesia
Malaysia Tunisia Algeria everything is
different so Islam and Muslim world is
not a monolith but when you look at
these scholars that are there on the
YouTube from South Asia from this part
of the world you come across the organ
the look Islam and democracy are not
compatible of course they are not
compatible because Islam is the word of
God and democracy is a system by the
will of the people and the question that
comes to your mind is that of course the
God is not going to come down to the
earth to interpret his word he’s not
going to come down and explain what he
meant by his world that means muslims
intelligence here the intellectual and
muslim people have to interpret the word
of the god and this is the question i
want to leave in your mind and maybe i
get the opportunity to address it
towards the end but as a as a critic and
someone who is from the media and
communication within the Islamic
Republic of Pakistan it is not my cup of
tea is not my
I it’s not for me tutto be talking about
Islamophobia or the French energy to
hijab I have to talk I have to react I
have to be sensitized by what I see in
this country in this Lama crab-like of
Pakistan and there is a media and
communication person I saw in the last
two or three months that how people
unknown people who we never heard of the
bloggers were picked up by national
security agencies because they were
writing blasphemous contents and I am as
a common sense thinking what has
national security agencies of the state
have to do with blasphemy and that’s not
it that the matter disappeared without
any explanation one of the largest
Facebook page which had four million
plus Pakistanis see us abroad PK
suddenly boom disappears from the
Facebook and I find a tweet from this
house of door PK this is we just we just
lost a page we don’t know what really
happened
so I sent a direct tweet to the editor
of this asset or pk who was actually in
Canada I said to him what happened he
says we don’t know anything I mean we
just disappeared you know and we did I
said did you get a notice a notification
and alert of warning by Facebook this is
what the standard is he says nothing
we just disappeared was okay and and he
said what we have found out but after
the court trial the government of
Pakistan has entered into a secret
agreement with the Facebook and
according to that secret agreement you
know because my Bilal is here talking of
agreements so the Government of Pakistan
entered into secret agreement according
to see Asador PK and asked for the force
of the agreement Facebook has takedown
has to take down and suspend or take off
every page which the Government of
Pakistan recommends to them is injurious
to their interests which I said okay
what to do I said let me tell you
something I said write an email to be th
chairman PT a copy their to secretary
interior for Peter to secretary
information copied that was
such-and-such secretary and copy me on
that and copy all the television actors
and copy all the editors of extra bune
and on and you know Pakistan today and
Friday times and copy that to US embassy
and copy that to everybody and ask them
and ask them you know do you have an
agreement with Facebook because we have
just been down and Facebook is not even
responding
to our emails and he did that he copied
me on that and after 12 hours the PTA
responded did look we haven’t done
anything to us about PK we don’t know
what really happened to you but you know
we have an agreement but that is only we
have signed an agreement with Facebook
but there’s only related to the to the
blasphemous content but what PK was not
blasphemous C acid or PK is an
opposition site is a public debating
thing followed by 4 million people since
2008 since then since Twitter is my
weapon since then I have been tweeting
and I’ve been writing and I’ve been
sending emails to all the government
officials that you cannot sign a secret
agreement with Facebook why it is
important I want you to understand that
because I am is in television industry
I’m in media I know the political
narrative the creative narrative of the
Pakistan is not being shaped by
televisions it is not being shaped by
geo or dunya or express it’s not being
shaped by ary it is not being shaped by
Dawn and Express Tribune the creativity
of the Pakistani youth 65% people in
this country are less than 35 years of
age the creativity the ideas of the
Pakistani youth the questioning is
coming from the social media 40 million
Pakistanis are right now on Twitter and
on Facebook and these are the people the
executive authorities in this country in
all Muslim countries are afraid of so I
have been questioning this thing to all
the government authorities into this
point I have not received any answer to
this that how can you enter into a
secret agreement which has not been put
to judicial review which the Pakistani
media the civil society legal community
the judicial community have not really
seen how can you decide how can PTA or
interior ministry decide what is
blasphemous and how can you down pages
like Sadat DK or recommend to Facebook
that you can dump pages likes acid or PK
without giving them the right of
audience and right of hearing I haven’t
received any answer so when I look
because I exist here I’m not facing
Islamophobia her job French energy to
her job is not my issue with so many
Pakistanis keep on talking my issue my
sensitivity my reaction is towards what
I see over here
and when I see professor tariq ramadhan
who divides his time between Switzerland
and Oxford University and American think
tanks and Japanese universities and box
of the West’s bias towards Muslim or
shaadi Hamid the who talks of the
Islamic exceptionalism I feel like
saying that stop the hypocrisy tell me
how many Muslim countries run by Muslims
govern by Muslims administered by
Muslims are genuine democracies where
there is genuine rule of law where the
minorities and minority point of view is
protected and minority point of view is
very important minority point to you is
not necessarily the point of view of a
most of a religious minority it’s the
point is a minority point of view in art
it’s a minority point of view in
literature it’s the minority point of
view in science it’s a minority point of
view in politics where is minority point
of view rule of law liberal order being
exercised in any Muslim country while
doing this research I came across the
paper a research paper by a certain John
Anderson whose God matters written a few
years ago and they said that which is
which is which is a common theme which
is repeated in Western academic
literature again then again and again
and again which has been repeated by
Huntington Samuel Huntington in his
books by Francis Fukuyama the end of the
history and the theme that records is
that Muslim societies are not receptive
for democracy somehow the other the
democratic institutions do not take hold
in the Muslim societies well John and
the Sun paper makes two exceptions it
says the two exceptions two surprising
exceptions where there are some form of
democratic institutions and what are
those two exceptions Turkey and Pakistan
according to that paper now in the year
2017 we can probably add Indonesia
Malaysia and after the Innova the
political parties you know departure we
can probably add Tunisia to that but the
problem which I think as a commented
race the Muslim countries definition of
democracy is only restricted to two
things
absence of military on the top the
military is not visible on the top and
holding elections otherwise if you just
look at
Turkey which has been referred to as one
of the exceptions as a promising
democratic country I looked and checked
no transition of power from one regime
to the other in Turkey ever took place
without the military intervention
situation Pakistan is more or less the
same and now when the Turkish military
has become very weak and has been
decimated and done to death
president Aragon has completed 15 years
in power and he’s just held her friend
him which gives him now Authority
legitimacy in position and capacity to
be in power for another 10 years I mean
we’re in a Western liberal democracy you
can even conceive of someone you know
thinking of this kind of luxury or
staying in power for so long you know
this whenever the Muslim moving to the
next idea from my childhood school
college university television media
newspapers columnist the only argument
which we encounter from the Muslim
scholars when the talk of Islam and
democracy being compatible is kalafat a
rush to the time period of the rightly
guided caliphs but then we forget to
mention that how long ago that was 1,500
years ago and we don’t even talk the how
how what was the duration of the halawet
a rush to 26 years maybe 30 that’s it
what happened after this yes we have the
Golden Age of ideas Muslims had the
Golden Age of ideas between 8th and 11th
century 303 and 50 years of the Abbasid
era when Muslims were at the cutting
edge of modernity
democracy is a modernity idea so Muslims
at the time were more democratic than
any other society any other civilization
on the planet or of the known
civilization in terms and also they made
very original contributions to
mathematics to Sciences to physics to
chemistry algebra is the Muslim creation
chemistry and so on but what happened
then no one talks about that you know in
every television program every column in
will do newspapers in every discussion
in any television anyway
Oh in any university in this country you
go ahead ditches talk about the
philosophy Rasta so what about the 15
and it is there a pass since then you
know how many original ideas this is the
other question I want to throw into your
mind
how many original ideas Muslim scholars
or teaching places have created in the
last 800 years original ideas that have
changed the world that have impacted the
world how many times Muslim
intellectuals have produced calm or
shoppin ha or marks or nature or surfer
you know or Bertrand Russell or or even
someone like George Orwell I mean what a
brilliant dissection of the power in the
modern age has been done by the or alien
concept of George Orwell if we read if
anyone of you cares to read animal form
it’s a small book you can read in to
ours read animal form annual year right
you will realize it is no more about
this Stalinist Russia it is about this
place it is about this place read animal
form and you’ll find all the characters
of Pakistani politics and society
mentioned and the different names in the
animal form so coming to because when I
was discussing that or what did that
talk one of the idea was that you must
also mention the solutions so when we
talk we move toward the solutions I
think I I would address the question of
the solution in the form of a question
how many of the people here sitting in
this hall and all of those hundreds of
thousands maybe they get to watch this
video
however consciously realized understood
in a very clear sense the religions are
ideas Islam Christianity and Judaism are
ideas and ideas have to be interpreted
ideas cannot be fossilized in time and
space ideas to remain ideas ideas cannot
be made of wood and stone or pulp ideas
a living organic forms for ideas to
remain true to themselves the ideas have
to be interpreted and reinterpreted and
have to be understood and they have to
be
interpreted and reinterpreted with the
help of the modern sciences and the
knowledge as I said in the very
beginning the God will not come down to
earth to interpret his own idea there is
always a class of people that that act
in the name of the God and this is
happening across all the Muslim world
where there is a small is a class or
vested interest that interprets religion
in the name of the God the God is not
coming here and this brings me with the
last torque which I want to leave with
you this question should take us to the
10th the 11th century the time period
the brilliant time period the only real
brilliant time period of Muslim
civilization is between the 8th and 11th
century the Abbasid time period and that
is the time period when the Muslims were
at the cutting edge at the cutting edge
of the civilization every critic of
Muslim civilization and Islam admits to
the fact that Islam was the leading
force that changed the world and
transferred the Greek knowledge from the
Greek oh and Roman world to the modern
world and Islam was the connection but
they was the debate between Moses Allah
and acharya
Mota’s allah what are the lights or
Moses Allah what the rationalist that
believes that religion and God have to
be interpreted through the principles of
reason and rationality and then there
was a counter group of the Acharya the
traditionalists they believed the
revelation and word is more important
than reasoning the rationalist lost the
debate a thousand years ago in 10th and
11th century and off and we have a
thousand years of fossilized thinking no
muslim society or state will become
genuinely democratic unless we become
genuinely modern and we will not become
genuinely modern unless we learn to
dissect interpret and reinterpret the
ideas this is what i have to say thank
you so much
you
[Music]
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