The WHY in Creative Work

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[Music]
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so I consider myself an artist and my process for everything that I do is more
process for everything that I do is more of an artistic process than an academic
of an artistic process than an academic or commercial process it’s usually
or commercial process it’s usually involves a lot of chaos it usually
involves a lot of chaos it usually involves a lot of angst and somehow
involves a lot of angst and somehow someway something beautiful comes out at
someway something beautiful comes out at the end of it and so I actually relate
the end of it and so I actually relate quite well to two artists and performers
quite well to two artists and performers and I sort of feel a kindred spirit when
and I sort of feel a kindred spirit when Jen and I go out for dinner we talk
Jen and I go out for dinner we talk about all kinds of things and very often
about all kinds of things and very often we talk about creativity what makes us
we talk about creativity what makes us creative and the conversations that we
creative and the conversations that we end up having are insightful for both of
end up having are insightful for both of us and the last time we went out for
us and the last time we went out for dinner we said well this is unfair we
dinner we said well this is unfair we should really let others in on this and
should really let others in on this and so it’s actually very exciting for me
so it’s actually very exciting for me you know I spend so much time talking to
you know I spend so much time talking to business people they’re nice but I you
business people they’re nice but I you know coming back and doing things with
know coming back and doing things with artists is much more my home so it’s
artists is much more my home so it’s it’s this is actually a joy for me to do
it’s this is actually a joy for me to do and so I think the goal of today I’m
and so I think the goal of today I’m sure I’ll wax on but the goal of today
sure I’ll wax on but the goal of today is I’m here for you to answer questions
is I’m here for you to answer questions we can talk about what creative process
we can talk about what creative process is what it means to be an artist in
is what it means to be an artist in today’s and day and age you know I have
today’s and day and age you know I have gripes about some of it and and
gripes about some of it and and hopefully we can all learn something and
hopefully we can all learn something and be better off by the end of it so I’m
be better off by the end of it so I’m here to serve I’ll tell you one I’ll
here to serve I’ll tell you one I’ll just start off with one frustration I
just start off with one frustration I have about the arts today I guess two
have about the arts today I guess two frustrations okay three three first I’ll
frustrations okay three three first I’ll share two frustrations one frustration
share two frustrations one frustration is the concept of patronage has gone
is the concept of patronage has gone away
away you know Beethoven and Mozart didn’t pay
you know Beethoven and Mozart didn’t pay their own bills um somebody else saw
their own bills um somebody else saw talent in them and somebody else paid
talent in them and somebody else paid their bills yeah they did some teaching
their bills yeah they did some teaching but let’s be honest that’s not what paid
but let’s be honest that’s not what paid the bills and they had patrons who paid
the bills and they had patrons who paid their bills so that they would produce
their bills so that they would produce and we have the symphonies and the
and we have the symphonies and the sonatas and the operas that we have from
sonatas and the operas that we have from them because others wanted to invest in
them because others wanted to invest in that that was the product that was the
that that was the product that was the return on that investment the ability to
return on that investment the ability to contribute to to society to the arts
contribute to to society to the arts what I lament is that the arts have
what I lament is that the arts have unfortunately too much become business
unfortunately too much become business where the investment is to get money
where the investment is to get money back you know rather than to produce
back you know rather than to produce something that is so necessary and
something that is so necessary and beautiful beautiful that it actually
beautiful beautiful that it actually contributes to to society at large
contributes to to society at large I miss the concept of patronage and I
I miss the concept of patronage and I would love to bring something like that
would love to bring something like that back now I guess we have grants and
back now I guess we have grants and things it’s not quite the same I
things it’s not quite the same I literally mean that an artist with
literally mean that an artist with talent that others recognizes has talent
talent that others recognizes has talent gets a salary that you don’t work you
gets a salary that you don’t work you don’t have a survival job your survival
don’t have a survival job your survival job is the patronage I know I so that’s
job is the patronage I know I so that’s one lamentation the other the other one
one lamentation the other the other one is as I mentioned that that too much of
is as I mentioned that that too much of I’m okay with a portion of art being
I’m okay with a portion of art being business there’s no problem with that
business there’s no problem with that my concept my problem is is is it out of
my concept my problem is is is it out of balance has too much art become built
balance has too much art become built business you could say the same thing of
business you could say the same thing of hospitals you could say the same thing
hospitals you could say the same thing of universities where universities too
of universities where universities too much have forgotten that their
much have forgotten that their responsibility is to educate students
responsibility is to educate students not get donations right hospitals have
not get donations right hospitals have forgotten that their responsibility to
forgotten that their responsibility to take take care of doctors and nurses and
take take care of doctors and nurses and staff so that the doctors and nurses and
staff so that the doctors and nurses and staff can take care of the patients it’s
staff can take care of the patients it’s not how much money can we bring in and
not how much money can we bring in and how many famous doctors can we brag
how many famous doctors can we brag about somebody once told me recently
about somebody once told me recently that they introduced me to a I think was
that they introduced me to a I think was a heart surgeon or some sort of famous
a heart surgeon or some sort of famous surgeon and they said you know they rate
surgeon and they said you know they rate these surgeons on how many of their
these surgeons on how many of their patients died you know that’s how they
patients died you know that’s how they keep track of who’s the best and and he
keep track of who’s the best and and he said you’re very lucky to meet a surgeon
said you’re very lucky to meet a surgeon here who has one of the lowest mortality
here who has one of the lowest mortality rates of all surgeons in his in his
rates of all surgeons in his in his field and I said oh I would never see
field and I said oh I would never see him and my friend said why not I said
him and my friend said why not I said because he passes on all the difficult
because he passes on all the difficult cases so we can make sure that his
cases so we can make sure that his patient
patient live and I can guarantee you that’s what
live and I can guarantee you that’s what happens I can guarantee you that some of
happens I can guarantee you that some of the most difficult cases the best
the most difficult cases the best surgeons do not take for fear of
surgeons do not take for fear of upsetting their metrics upsetting their
upsetting their metrics upsetting their reputations right and unfortunately some
reputations right and unfortunately some of the most important cases are being
of the most important cases are being passed up by some of the best surgeons
passed up by some of the best surgeons now of course that’s not in general I
now of course that’s not in general I can guarantee you it’s happening
can guarantee you it’s happening the minute you start attaching numbers
the minute you start attaching numbers to things like medical care or or
to things like medical care or or education or the arts necessarily or
education or the arts necessarily or each of those things will suffer its III
each of those things will suffer its III lament that universities advertise
lament that universities advertise themselves by bragging about the average
themselves by bragging about the average salary of their graduating students how
salary of their graduating students how about the contribution to society of
about the contribution to society of their average student you know so so
their average student you know so so anything that I can do to help ease the
anything that I can do to help ease the way for you as you go on the journey as
way for you as you go on the journey as an artist which is a and I hold you in
an artist which is a and I hold you in the same esteem that I hold the military
the same esteem that I hold the military I have a really big soft spot in my
I have a really big soft spot in my heart for people who undertake a career
heart for people who undertake a career of service where where sacrifice is a
of service where where sacrifice is a large part of what you’re expected to do
large part of what you’re expected to do and few if any go into the business with
and few if any go into the business with the expectation of getting rich right
the expectation of getting rich right and I think artists and and and military
and I think artists and and and military are very very similar that it is if you
are very very similar that it is if you get it right if you get it right it is
get it right if you get it right it is an act of service it is an act of
an act of service it is an act of service if you think it’s about fame and
service if you think it’s about fame and fortune I wish you nothing but luck but
fortune I wish you nothing but luck but that’s also the difference maybe between
that’s also the difference maybe between the film and a movie like one can stand
the film and a movie like one can stand up as art and is hopefully entertaining
up as art and is hopefully entertaining you want the other one is just
you want the other one is just entertainment and hopefully is also
entertainment and hopefully is also artistic so it’s not a better or worse
artistic so it’s not a better or worse thing but just it’s about awareness of
thing but just it’s about awareness of the lifestyle and and career in the kind
the lifestyle and and career in the kind of art artists journey that you want to
of art artists journey that you want to to go on that’s my preamble
to go on that’s my preamble it’s pretty great preamble what you just
it’s pretty great preamble what you just said reminded me of a conversation we
said reminded me of a conversation we had once and I’m gonna try to jog your
had once and I’m gonna try to jog your memory about what actually defines art
memory about what actually defines art and you are using an example of
and you are using an example of something that is in a gallery oh yeah
something that is in a gallery oh yeah yeah okay okay so jog yeah yeah so so if
yeah okay okay so jog yeah yeah so so if we can recognize things they must be
we can recognize things they must be able we must be able to define them
able we must be able to define them right things that are recognizable are
right things that are recognizable are definable and when people say art defies
definable and when people say art defies definition then how do you know it’s art
definition then how do you know it’s art and so I challenged myself to define art
and so I challenged myself to define art right to come up with a working
right to come up with a working definition it’s and it’s not subjective
definition it’s and it’s not subjective it has to be objective it’s nothing to
it has to be objective it’s nothing to do with art we like or don’t like it’s
do with art we like or don’t like it’s to do with art and I and I and I think I
to do with art and I and I and I think I have a working definition I’ve been
have a working definition I’ve been testing it for years and so far it holds
testing it for years and so far it holds up and it boils down to three things
up and it boils down to three things there’s three tests that something must
there’s three tests that something must pass to be called art right and I’ll
pass to be called art right and I’ll tell you what they are and then I’ll go
tell you what they are and then I’ll go through each of them one is intention
through each of them one is intention one is display and the last is reception
one is display and the last is reception right two recept okay so and the test
right two recept okay so and the test that I gave myself right was things like
that I gave myself right was things like Robert Mapplethorpe okay Robert
Robert Mapplethorpe okay Robert Mapplethorpe took unbeli to unbelievably
Mapplethorpe took unbeli to unbelievably beautifully shot pornography so what
beautifully shot pornography so what makes it art and not pornography and
makes it art and not pornography and what makes you know something in a in a
what makes you know something in a in a pornographic magazine pornography and
pornographic magazine pornography and not art so that’s where I that was sort
not art so that’s where I that was sort of I put boundaries over here to make it
of I put boundaries over here to make it more difficult and so intention matters
more difficult and so intention matters intention is sometimes the intention of
intention is sometimes the intention of the person who produces the work but not
the person who produces the work but not always right so let’s say that the
always right so let’s say that the intention of let’s say a pornographic
intention of let’s say a pornographic magazine the intention is not art the
magazine the intention is not art the intention is a masturbatory aid right
intention is a masturbatory aid right and so it immediately fails the first
and so it immediately fails the first test but what if a curator from the MoMA
test but what if a curator from the MoMA decides to display
decides to display ten years worth of Playboy covers the
ten years worth of Playboy covers the intention is now changed it wasn’t the
intention is now changed it wasn’t the intention of the photograph but now it
intention of the photograph but now it has been converted by the curator right
has been converted by the curator right so it has intention not by the artist
so it has intention not by the artist per se not by the Creator but by the the
per se not by the Creator but by the the person who intends it to be art then is
person who intends it to be art then is display must be displayed in an area
display must be displayed in an area that is consistent with the intention so
that is consistent with the intention so we’re not displaying it in one of those
we’re not displaying it in one of those dine theaters we’re displaying it in a
dine theaters we’re displaying it in a place of artistic reputation Museum of
place of artistic reputation Museum of Modern Art and then it must be received
Modern Art and then it must be received as such people come inside interesting
as such people come inside interesting and then come up with all kinds of
and then come up with all kinds of nonsense about what the interpretation
nonsense about what the interpretation of what the meaning is right so like
of what the meaning is right so like Dada
Dada if you know da tests what if you take a
if you know da tests what if you take a peek like a piece of driftwood in nature
peek like a piece of driftwood in nature is just a piece of driftwood that’s all
is just a piece of driftwood that’s all it is and if someone recognizes its
it is and if someone recognizes its beauty and points wouldn’t say isn’t
beauty and points wouldn’t say isn’t that beautiful it’s still just nature
that beautiful it’s still just nature it’s not yet art but if somebody says
it’s not yet art but if somebody says that it has qualities that I intend to
that it has qualities that I intend to display separate from its natural
display separate from its natural environment and I remove the piece of
environment and I remove the piece of driftwood I now have intention I then
driftwood I now have intention I then display it in the museum and people come
display it in the museum and people come and look at and say isn’t that amazing
and look at and say isn’t that amazing right so you have intention you have
right so you have intention you have display and you have reception which
display and you have reception which means if you paint and you after every
means if you paint and you after every painting you put the paintings under
painting you put the paintings under your bed and they’re never seen you’re
your bed and they’re never seen you’re not an artist you’re just a painter
not an artist you’re just a painter right though you may have intention
right though you may have intention there’s no display and there’s no
there’s no display and there’s no reception if you’re a poet and you sit
reception if you’re a poet and you sit there and write the most fantastic poems
there and write the most fantastic poems and show them to no one but your diary
and show them to no one but your diary you may have intention but there is
you may have intention but there is notice no display and there’s no
notice no display and there’s no reception it must pass all three for it
reception it must pass all three for it to become art you were simply a writer
to become art you were simply a writer of poems you were a poet but you’re not
of poems you were a poet but you’re not yet an artist right you can display it
yet an artist right you can display it in your own home that’s fine you can
in your own home that’s fine you can just hang it up or read your poems to
just hang it up or read your poems to your friends totally fine and your
your friends totally fine and your friends go that’s an amazing poem great
friends go that’s an amazing poem great can I read you my new poem yes you can
can I read you my new poem yes you can that’s where it becomes art it’s nothing
that’s where it becomes art it’s nothing to do with the quality can be bad art
to do with the quality can be bad art but it’s it makes Jackson Pollock
but it’s it makes Jackson Pollock defendable whether you like it or not it
defendable whether you like it or not it makes Robert Mapplethorpe and by the way
makes Robert Mapplethorpe and by the way if we take Mapplethorpe and put it in
if we take Mapplethorpe and put it in a gay porn mag right it has now ceased
a gay porn mag right it has now ceased to be art it is now beautifully shot
to be art it is now beautifully shot pornography because the intention
pornography because the intention display and reception has completely
display and reception has completely changed so that’s my working definition
changed so that’s my working definition of art lots of lots of gasping yes or if
of art lots of lots of gasping yes or if there’s intention display in reception
there’s intention display in reception show so performance artists are somebody
show so performance artists are somebody who I mean I think to say the world is a
who I mean I think to say the world is a stage is a little too abstract
stage is a little too abstract you know that’s like the world is a
you know that’s like the world is a museum yeah yeah I mean too big too big
museum yeah yeah I mean too big too big so so can human beings be works of art
so so can human beings be works of art if there is an intention display human
if there is an intention display human being is a work of art with somebody
being is a work of art with somebody displays that as a work of art and if
displays that as a work of art and if it’s received as a work of art like
it’s received as a work of art like maybe the body’s exhibition you could
maybe the body’s exhibition you could argue you know or somebody who chooses
argue you know or somebody who chooses to do some avant-garde piece where they
to do some avant-garde piece where they sit in a chair for 12 hours you know in
sit in a chair for 12 hours you know in the Whitney Museum which has been done
the Whitney Museum which has been done then sure why not but not all people at
then sure why not but not all people at all times not all poems at all times not
all times not all poems at all times not all art paintings at all times
somebody had to intend to for it to be art for before it was displayed so I I
art for before it was displayed so I I don’t like I don’t have a good argument
don’t like I don’t have a good argument that it has to be in the order but it
that it has to be in the order but it seems to be a chronology to it first you
seems to be a chronology to it first you have to intend it or make it then you
have to intend it or make it then you have to show it to someone in somebody
have to show it to someone in somebody has to go hmm you know so it’s right I
has to go hmm you know so it’s right I think it’s more I think it’s more
think it’s more I think it’s more practical than it is philosophical yes
mm-hmm so remember so the question was I you know as an artist you you have
you know as an artist you you have intention you have display but can I be
intention you have display but can I be confident of the way it’s received so
confident of the way it’s received so it’s it’s not about how that necessarily
it’s it’s not about how that necessarily that people receive it but is it a place
that people receive it but is it a place where it should be received as such so
where it should be received as such so if you put on a play in a theatre you
if you put on a play in a theatre you know it can be filled that people be
know it can be filled that people be like this is an art right you can take
like this is an art right you can take you know my grandfather that are looking
you know my grandfather that are looking at Jackson Pollock you’re like that’s
at Jackson Pollock you’re like that’s not art it it’s a balance thing you know
not art it it’s a balance thing you know that’s one person’s I’m trying to remove
that’s one person’s I’m trying to remove the subjective quality out of it
the subjective quality out of it yeah yeah yes we can talk about other
yeah yeah yes we can talk about other things by the way besides my deafness
yeah so I think the part of it that I the reason I added reception is because
the reason I added reception is because to me art is like a gift you know if you
to me art is like a gift you know if you have capacity if you have talent if you
have capacity if you have talent if you have grit and hard work and you want to
have grit and hard work and you want to produce gifts are supposed to be given
produce gifts are supposed to be given so what’s the point of giving a gift is
so what’s the point of giving a gift is no one gets it right what’s the point of
no one gets it right what’s the point of producing a symphony of no one gets to
producing a symphony of no one gets to hear it so I think reception is
hear it so I think reception is important too to give the art point
important too to give the art point meaning as opposed to point less you
meaning as opposed to point less you know otherwise you’re just decorating
know otherwise you’re just decorating your home now we could have a debate
your home now we could have a debate whether I’m receiving it myself right so
whether I’m receiving it myself right so we could definitely debate that but but
we could definitely debate that but but I I think it I think and maybe this is
I I think it I think and maybe this is just the romantic in me it has to be
just the romantic in me it has to be enjoyed and and maybe one one one person
enjoyed and and maybe one one one person is fine
is fine maybe if you hang it in your own home
maybe if you hang it in your own home and it’s just for you that’s fine too
and it’s just for you that’s fine too but but I think art has to be enjoyed
but but I think art has to be enjoyed otherwise what’s the point you know
otherwise what’s the point you know otherwise it’s just therapy you know I’m
otherwise it’s just therapy you know I’m just painting for therapy and we all do
just painting for therapy and we all do things like that you know our art order
things like that you know our art order has to have another human being involved
has to have another human being involved to me art is about a relationship right
to me art is about a relationship right you you can’t call yourself a romantic
you you can’t call yourself a romantic or somebody who chooses
or somebody who chooses to love another if if nobody ever feels
to love another if if nobody ever feels your love you know it’s I think I think
your love you know it’s I think I think art is is is it’s a type of language
art is is is it’s a type of language right
right I know people who are the world’s worst
I know people who are the world’s worst communicators when it comes to their
communicators when it comes to their emotions when you asked when you have a
emotions when you asked when you have a conversation with them I’ve dated some
conversation with them I’ve dated some of them but given the opportunity to
of them but given the opportunity to write it’s magical and the feelings pour
write it’s magical and the feelings pour out on the page in an eloquence like
out on the page in an eloquence like I’ve never seen and as everyone here
I’ve never seen and as everyone here knows great art in some way shape or
knows great art in some way shape or form is always personal or semi
form is always personal or semi autobiographical right it’s too hard to
autobiographical right it’s too hard to write pure fiction you know we and we we
write pure fiction you know we and we we put ourselves in it because it gives it
put ourselves in it because it gives it a sense of reality in it and it’s what
a sense of reality in it and it’s what makes us passionate for the subject that
makes us passionate for the subject that we’re tackling I know dancers who you
we’re tackling I know dancers who you know you meet them and they’re like this
know you meet them and they’re like this but as soon as they start dancing you
but as soon as they start dancing you realize there’s it’s all there so so art
realize there’s it’s all there so so art is language and if no one hears you know
is language and if no one hears you know does a treat if a tree falls in the
does a treat if a tree falls in the woods you know if no one hears what
woods you know if no one hears what you’re saying is that we’re saying
you’re saying is that we’re saying anything they’re just false so what’s
anything they’re just false so what’s the point of writing a play that never
the point of writing a play that never gets shown is just a thought you know
gets shown is just a thought you know it’s just an intention so yeah no I
it’s just an intention so yeah no I think it must be sure that’s it’s the
think it must be sure that’s it’s the it’s it’s one of the ways in which
it’s it’s one of the ways in which people communicate language is obviously
people communicate language is obviously the primary one in beautiful language is
the primary one in beautiful language is art several years ago I was at the
art several years ago I was at the National young Arts Foundation working
National young Arts Foundation working with I was working specifically with
with I was working specifically with theater artists but they are an
theater artists but they are an organization that I’ve talked to you
organization that I’ve talked to you about before they have artists and the
about before they have artists and the literary arts the Performing Arts the
literary arts the Performing Arts the visual arts everything under an artistic
visual arts everything under an artistic umbrella is represented in there the
umbrella is represented in there the best and the brightest of the next
best and the brightest of the next generation of artists so the absolute
generation of artists so the absolute genius artist bill T Jones came down to
genius artist bill T Jones came down to do an interdisciplinary workshop so we
do an interdisciplinary workshop so we had kids of every single artistic
had kids of every single artistic discipline represented and he opened by
discipline represented and he opened by saying
saying if you are a creative artist raise your
if you are a creative artist raise your hand so of course all hands went up and
hand so of course all hands went up and then he said if you are a dancer a
then he said if you are a dancer a singer an actor director put your hands
singer an actor director put your hands down and you could kind of feel the room
down and you could kind of feel the room go like what the heck is going on here
go like what the heck is going on here and then he says you your hand should be
and then he says you your hand should be up if you are a poet if you are a
up if you are a poet if you are a filmmaker if you’re a choreographer a
filmmaker if you’re a choreographer a composer a playwright a painter now
composer a playwright a painter now raise your hand if you’re an
raise your hand if you’re an interpretive artists and dancers raise
interpretive artists and dancers raise your hand
your hand singers raise your hand actors raise
singers raise your hand actors raise your hand instrumentalists vocalists and
your hand instrumentalists vocalists and you can kind of feel this aha moment
you can kind of feel this aha moment happen so that’s really the question I
happen so that’s really the question I have for you is when you are an
have for you is when you are an interpretive artist as most people in
interpretive artist as most people in this room are not sure about you guys at
this room are not sure about you guys at home but in this room we’ve got mostly
home but in this room we’ve got mostly people who interpret to someone else’s
people who interpret to someone else’s work so when you’re looking for
work so when you’re looking for opportunities to find collaborators
opportunities to find collaborators someone whose work that you are going to
someone whose work that you are going to help bring to life do you have any
help bring to life do you have any thoughts about yeah about what that
thoughts about yeah about what that relationship is like and how to do it in
relationship is like and how to do it in a meaningful way yeah so I went to see a
a meaningful way yeah so I went to see a play with a friend of mine who is an
play with a friend of mine who is an actor and the play was awful I mean a
actor and the play was awful I mean a train wreck the script was awful the
train wreck the script was awful the directing was awful I mean it was an
directing was awful I mean it was an absolute train wreck and those sort of
absolute train wreck and those sort of the applause was kind of like you know
the applause was kind of like you know except for the parents they loved it
except for the parents they loved it and I said to my friend I feel sorry for
and I said to my friend I feel sorry for them I feel sorry for the actors that
them I feel sorry for the actors that had to be poorly directed with this poor
had to be poorly directed with this poor script you know do that and I said just
script you know do that and I said just do they know she says of course they
do they know she says of course they know and she said but do not feel sorry
know and she said but do not feel sorry for them because as actors it is their
for them because as actors it is their responsibility despite the poor
responsibility despite the poor directing and despite the poor script to
directing and despite the poor script to still bring something of themselves to
still bring something of themselves to bear something personal that we should
bear something personal that we should be able to say what a bad script what
be able to say what a bad script what poor directing but my goodness what a
poor directing but my goodness what a performance right and so I was told not
performance right and so I was told not to feel sorry for actors in bad plays
so the question does now the question you asked was about collaboration right
you asked was about collaboration right should any of those actors have taken
should any of those actors have taken the part now of course if you’re gonna
the part now of course if you’re gonna take a part because you need an extra
take a part because you need an extra cash
cash a little extra cash or you want to get
a little extra cash or you want to get little extra practice then you have to
little extra practice then you have to do so I think knowing I’m doing this for
do so I think knowing I’m doing this for the money or I’m doing this just to keep
the money or I’m doing this just to keep keep my skills sharp but I’m under no
keep my skills sharp but I’m under no illusion that this is something that I
illusion that this is something that I connect with but I’m gonna do the best
connect with but I’m gonna do the best that I can and then don’t lie to
that I can and then don’t lie to yourself you know the other problem is
yourself you know the other problem is don’t do that too often because that’ll
don’t do that too often because that’ll just destroy any passion that you have
just destroy any passion that you have for your medium right and I think and
for your medium right and I think and we’ve talked about this which is which
we’ve talked about this which is which is any artist any person but especially
is any artist any person but especially artists have to know they’re why you
artists have to know they’re why you have to know why you’re showing up in
have to know why you’re showing up in the first place and you have to be able
the first place and you have to be able to talk about it because if you talk
to talk about it because if you talk about it things happen people go I like
about it things happen people go I like you right now you may not get the part
you right now you may not get the part but you’re more likely to find people
but you’re more likely to find people who want to work with you even if you’re
who want to work with you even if you’re not the most talented one who auditioned
not the most talented one who auditioned this is my career by the way right when
this is my career by the way right when I learned to talk about what I believed
I learned to talk about what I believed I didn’t talk about the things I’ve done
I didn’t talk about the things I’ve done I didn’t talk about the parts I’ve had
I didn’t talk about the parts I’ve had or the shows I’ve been in or who trained
or the shows I’ve been in or who trained me where the schools I went to resume
me where the schools I went to resume resume resume I started I learned to
resume resume I started I learned to talk about what I believed and some
talk about what I believed and some people thought it was cheesy they didn’t
people thought it was cheesy they didn’t call me back
call me back good and some people went that’s great
good and some people went that’s great and I was not the most talented not the
and I was not the most talented not the most experienced not the best at my
most experienced not the best at my field but because they stood for or
field but because they stood for or believed in what I stood for they wanted
believed in what I stood for they wanted to work with me they would rather work
to work with me they would rather work with someone who understood them who got
with someone who understood them who got them more than somebody who would just
them more than somebody who would just take orders and do exactly what they
take orders and do exactly what they wanted regardless of facility right now
wanted regardless of facility right now you have to have some facility of course
you have to have some facility of course you know there has to be some level of
you know there has to be some level of talent we’re not talking about you know
talent we’re not talking about you know all why and know what you know you’re
all why and know what you know you’re gonna you got a
gonna you got a you gotta bring the goods as well but
you gotta bring the goods as well but you don’t assess enough to be the best
you don’t assess enough to be the best great producers great directors we know
great producers great directors we know what they stand for
what they stand for we’re drawn to their work you can throw
we’re drawn to their work you can throw out the name of the director I love
out the name of the director I love their work well their last three movies
their work well their last three movies sucked yeah that’s okay you know you
sucked yeah that’s okay you know you know he’s like we all have our like I
know he’s like we all have our like I love you no Goomer del Toro just love
love you no Goomer del Toro just love how I don’t like all his movies I think
how I don’t like all his movies I think some of them are not that good I think
some of them are not that good I think some of them are brilliant but I like
some of them are brilliant but I like the way he views the world I want to see
the way he views the world I want to see it when it comes out and the fact is
it when it comes out and the fact is because I know what he stands for and I
because I know what he stands for and I know how he sees the world I’m very
know how he sees the world I’m very patient with the fact that he doesn’t
patient with the fact that he doesn’t always get it right right so so I’m a
always get it right right so so I’m a huge modern dance lover like that’s the
huge modern dance lover like that’s the thing I love and I don’t go to the Joyce
thing I love and I don’t go to the Joyce anymore
anymore because everything that they have on
because everything that they have on their stage is good it’s good everything
their stage is good it’s good everything is safe to me they put things on their
is safe to me they put things on their stage that that’s good they sell tickets
stage that that’s good they sell tickets nothing’s bad and nothing’s great it’s
nothing’s bad and nothing’s great it’s all good I don’t go anymore
all good I don’t go anymore I go to BAM a lot I have seen things
I go to BAM a lot I have seen things that have profoundly changed my view of
that have profoundly changed my view of the world and I have walked out of more
the world and I have walked out of more things at BAM
things at BAM literally I’m like I’m done and my
literally I’m like I’m done and my friends like like we can I have walked
friends like like we can I have walked outs out of so many things at Bam and
outs out of so many things at Bam and yet I continued to go and continue to go
yet I continued to go and continue to go and I continue to go because I know what
and I continue to go because I know what they stand for that’s my preference I’m
they stand for that’s my preference I’m not saying it’s right or wrong I’m
not saying it’s right or wrong I’m saying that’s my preference that I would
saying that’s my preference that I would rather take the risk of walking out
rather take the risk of walking out knowing that I might get moved in a way
knowing that I might get moved in a way that I’ve never experienced before more
that I’ve never experienced before more than just go and have a nice night out
than just go and have a nice night out and see something that I know is good
and see something that I know is good right and I think that goes for our
right and I think that goes for our careers as well you know which is if you
careers as well you know which is if you choose to be the kind of artist that
choose to be the kind of artist that stands for something that you want to be
stands for something that you want to be yourself and bring yourself into
yourself and bring yourself into everything that you do you will get
everything that you do you will get fewer parts you will the parts you get
fewer parts you will the parts you get we’ll move you in a way that most
we’ll move you in a way that most artists will not get moved or you can
artists will not get moved or you can bend and manipulate yourself a little
bend and manipulate yourself a little bit and sort of be a little bit more of
bit and sort of be a little bit more of what they want and play their role and
what they want and play their role and even though you don’t really buy into it
even though you don’t really buy into it it’s a part and I want to be an actor I
it’s a part and I want to be an actor I want to be a performer I’m gonna I’m
want to be a performer I’m gonna I’m gonna do what they want you will
gonna do what they want you will absolutely get more parts without a
absolutely get more parts without a doubt you will met you will can arguably
doubt you will met you will can arguably have a better career but will you’ll be
have a better career but will you’ll be profoundly moved as an artist
profoundly moved as an artist the odds are lower it’s not I kind of
the odds are lower it’s not I kind of say never it’s just the odds are lower
say never it’s just the odds are lower it’s not better or worse it is simply
it’s not better or worse it is simply the decision on how you choose to manage
the decision on how you choose to manage or lead your own career both are
or lead your own career both are acceptable right one means you get to
acceptable right one means you get to use your facility a lot one means you
use your facility a lot one means you get to work a lot one means you might be
get to work a lot one means you might be able to do only your art and actually
able to do only your art and actually make a living one means that you’re
make a living one means that you’re gonna be meeting a lot of people and the
gonna be meeting a lot of people and the odds are that you will connect with
odds are that you will connect with somebody at some point or you choose
somebody at some point or you choose this route which is much more difficult
this route which is much more difficult and is fraught with much more risk and
and is fraught with much more risk and much more struggle but you become known
much more struggle but you become known for the thing that you are and it’s a
for the thing that you are and it’s a choice and I think the the the mistake
choice and I think the the the mistake that most artists that I mean especially
that most artists that I mean especially performing artists were this this
performing artists were this this constant audition machine right I think
constant audition machine right I think they try and play both and I don’t think
they try and play both and I don’t think you can be yourself and then also play
you can be yourself and then also play the part that they want you to play I
the part that they want you to play I don’t think you can I think that’s
don’t think you can I think that’s impossible I think that’s where the
impossible I think that’s where the stress lies where you think you can play
stress lies where you think you can play both sides of the coin I think that’s
both sides of the coin I think that’s where the that’s where it becomes
where the that’s where it becomes depressing and I think that’s where it
depressing and I think that’s where it sucks the soul out when you when you
sucks the soul out when you when you trick yourself to think that you can
trick yourself to think that you can have both because you can’t it doesn’t
have both because you can’t it doesn’t exist on any planet you just got to make
exist on any planet you just got to make a choice now you can make a choice half
a choice now you can make a choice half way you can change directions but but
way you can change directions but but but there has to be a
but there has to be a has chosen and you you find confidence
has chosen and you you find confidence in that path it may be difficult but it
in that path it may be difficult but it doesn’t suck the soul out of it you know
doesn’t suck the soul out of it you know it doesn’t become depressing it just
it doesn’t become depressing it just becomes difficult and that’s okay
becomes difficult and that’s okay difficult is fine but I think you have
difficult is fine but I think you have to make a choice and the kind of career
to make a choice and the kind of career you want and again it’s not good or bad
you want and again it’s not good or bad right or wrong
right or wrong there’s simply choices like there’s
there’s simply choices like there’s nothing wrong with choice there’s
nothing wrong with choice there’s nothing wrong with Joyce Joyce sells a
nothing wrong with Joyce Joyce sells a lot of tickets there’s nothing wrong
lot of tickets there’s nothing wrong with it it’s just a choice to live on
with it it’s just a choice to live on these extremes versus VX the extremes
these extremes versus VX the extremes this is very balanced this is very
this is very balanced this is very balanced and it’s like entrepreneurs
balanced and it’s like entrepreneurs versus people who get jobs and come in
versus people who get jobs and come in corporations like there’s no right or
corporations like there’s no right or wrong or good or bad you know
wrong or good or bad you know entrepreneurs experience highs that
entrepreneurs experience highs that people in a job will never experience
people in a job will never experience they also experience lows that people in
they also experience lows that people in a job will never experience people in
a job will never experience people in companies who take jobs with stability
companies who take jobs with stability and your highs are not that high but
and your highs are not that high but your loans are not that low you know
your loans are not that low you know they’re both balanced but the point is
they’re both balanced but the point is you can’t have one without the other you
you can’t have one without the other you can’t have this you can only have this
can’t have this you can only have this you can’t choose to want this and this
you can’t choose to want this and this it just doesn’t work that way you get
it just doesn’t work that way you get this where you get this since the same
this where you get this since the same thing was I’m talking about here you can
thing was I’m talking about here you can have this as a creative career you can
have this as a creative career you can have this as a creative career and then
have this as a creative career and then you prepare yourself for four you know
you prepare yourself for four you know it’s like people with curly hair when
it’s like people with curly hair when straight hair and people don’t want
straight hair and people don’t want curly hair it’s the same thing these
curly hair it’s the same thing these people will complain
people will complain these people will always complain that
these people will always complain that why can’t I ever get that and these
why can’t I ever get that and these people complain I can never get a job
people complain I can never get a job you’re gonna be stressed no matter what
you’re gonna be stressed no matter what focus on the thing that you’re getting
focus on the thing that you’re getting because that’s the choice you made right
because that’s the choice you made right I dress much rather you focus the thing
I dress much rather you focus the thing you you you or you were pursuing right
you you you or you were pursuing right if everything you’re missing and so this
if everything you’re missing and so this idea of affirmative thinking positive
idea of affirmative thinking positive thinking is essential for all people but
thinking is essential for all people but I think it’s especially essential for
I think it’s especially essential for artists and there’s a very very simple
artists and there’s a very very simple biological reason for it which is the
biological reason for it which is the human brain cannot comprehend the
human brain cannot comprehend the negative it is incapable yes it’s true
negative it is incapable yes it’s true I’ll give you an example
I’ll give you an example okay no no I’ll give you an example you
okay no no I’ll give you an example you don’t have to believe me
don’t have to believe me I’ll prove it I’ll prove it
I’ll prove it I’ll prove it okay the human brain cannot comprehend
okay the human brain cannot comprehend the negative you ready don’t think of an
the negative you ready don’t think of an elephant you can’t you can’t tell the
elephant you can’t you can’t tell the human brain not to do something right
human brain not to do something right and so what happens is we very often
and so what happens is we very often reinforce things when we put things in
reinforce things when we put things in the negative right I can’t get apart I
the negative right I can’t get apart I can’t get apart I can’t get apart right
can’t get apart I can’t get apart right or I can’t do this versus I’m gonna keep
or I can’t do this versus I’m gonna keep doing this I’m gonna keep doing this I’m
doing this I’m gonna keep doing this I’m gonna keep doing this right and and it’s
gonna keep doing this right and and it’s such a huge thing to convert things into
such a huge thing to convert things into the affirmative you’re supposed to do
the affirmative you’re supposed to do with children as well we’re supposed to
with children as well we’re supposed to say instead of saying to children don’t
say instead of saying to children don’t eat on the couch we’re supposed to say
eat on the couch we’re supposed to say eat at the table right we tell people
eat at the table right we tell people what we want them to do not what them
what we want them to do not what them what we don’t want to do pilots know
what we don’t want to do pilots know this right it is well known in the pilot
this right it is well known in the pilot community that when you tell a pilot
community that when you tell a pilot don’t hit the obstacle they’ll hit the
don’t hit the obstacle they’ll hit the obstacle because what they’re doing is
obstacle because what they’re doing is focusing on the obstacle skiers notice
focusing on the obstacle skiers notice if if you ever seen skiers go through
if if you ever seen skiers go through trees do you know how they do that it’s
trees do you know how they do that it’s very easy it’s actually surprisingly
very easy it’s actually surprisingly easy if you go through trees on skis you
easy if you go through trees on skis you go don’t hit a tree don’t hit a tree
go don’t hit a tree don’t hit a tree don’t hit a tree guess what you’re
don’t hit a tree guess what you’re watching you’re only looking at trees
watching you’re only looking at trees all you’re doing is seeing trees you
all you’re doing is seeing trees you don’t understand how anyone can ski with
don’t understand how anyone can ski with all these trees right as opposed to
all these trees right as opposed to follow the snow follow the path follow
follow the snow follow the path follow the path the only thing you see is the
the path the only thing you see is the path skiers know this if you say don’t
path skiers know this if you say don’t hit a tree you’ll hit a tree you won’t
hit a tree you’ll hit a tree you won’t be able to find a path because all you
be able to find a path because all you see is millions of trees if you say only
see is millions of trees if you say only follow the path you actually don’t see
follow the path you actually don’t see any trees there’s actually very sparse
any trees there’s actually very sparse trees there’s plenty of paths it’s
trees there’s plenty of paths it’s plenty of snow it’s the same thing for
plenty of snow it’s the same thing for you if you focus on the obstacles all
you if you focus on the obstacles all you will see as obstacles if you focus
you will see as obstacles if you focus on the path through the trees all you
on the path through the trees all you will see is path through the trees
will see is path through the trees it’s your choice how you choose to
it’s your choice how you choose to perceive your own career
perceive your own career it’s literally perspective it’s
it’s literally perspective it’s literally perspective something that you
literally perspective something that you said to me about actors who are always
said to me about actors who are always looking for the next job are always
looking for the next job are always playing this short game and I would love
playing this short game and I would love for you to talk about that because the
for you to talk about that because the concept of being in it for the long haul
concept of being in it for the long haul is yep so important yes okay I’m so I’m
is yep so important yes okay I’m so I’m not gonna bore you with grit and stick
not gonna bore you with grit and stick with it Ness it’s a it’s a it’s a more
with it Ness it’s a it’s a it’s a more philosophical concept right I’ve become
philosophical concept right I’ve become very very interested in the idea of
very very interested in the idea of playing in games that have no finish
playing in games that have no finish lines right
lines right some games have finish line’s right
some games have finish line’s right baseball football right
baseball football right getting apart is the finish line you
getting apart is the finish line you audition there’s a beginning middle and
audition there’s a beginning middle and end who’s rehearsal and practice
end who’s rehearsal and practice there’s showing up for the audition and
there’s showing up for the audition and you either win or you lose and then it’s
you either win or you lose and then it’s over it’s over right that is finite but
over it’s over right that is finite but one’s career is infinite there’s there’s
one’s career is infinite there’s there’s no end it’s like our lives are finite
no end it’s like our lives are finite but life is infinite people come and
but life is infinite people come and people go but life continues right
people go but life continues right theater actors come and actors go but
theater actors come and actors go but theater continues it’s infinite you
theater continues it’s infinite you don’t win theatre you win a part but
don’t win theatre you win a part but what happens once you get the part the
what happens once you get the part the the finite game is over
the finite game is over now you enter the infinite game you have
now you enter the infinite game you have to be able to convert right and the
to be able to convert right and the reason this is important and I’ve seen
reason this is important and I’ve seen this unfortunately so many times I have
this unfortunately so many times I have a friend one of those people who’s
a friend one of those people who’s furiously talented frustratingly
furiously talented frustratingly talented and we all hate her because she
talented and we all hate her because she would oversleep and miss auditions and
would oversleep and miss auditions and then the one she’d roll into she’d get
then the one she’d roll into she’d get the part like we hate her right
that is her career and as a little girl I think she was eight years old ten
I think she was eight years old ten years old she drew a picture of herself
years old she drew a picture of herself with her name and says New York City
with her name and says New York City Rockettes and she drew a picture of the
Rockettes and she drew a picture of the Rockettes now all she wanted to do was
Rockettes now all she wanted to do was be on Broadway and become a Rockette she
be on Broadway and become a Rockette she became a Rockette
became a Rockette all she wanted to do was get to Broadway
all she wanted to do was get to Broadway and we all know people like this some of
and we all know people like this some of you are here which is from a young age
you are here which is from a young age all you wanted to do was get to Broadway
all you wanted to do was get to Broadway and then you get to Broadway and then
and then you get to Broadway and then what you’ve devoted your entire life to
what you’ve devoted your entire life to one finite goal and when you get there
one finite goal and when you get there the immediate response is depression
the immediate response is depression because I I spent 15 years of my life
because I I spent 15 years of my life for this one thing and I got it and now
for this one thing and I got it and now I don’t know what to do next like what a
I don’t know what to do next like what a get to Broadway again doesn’t have the
get to Broadway again doesn’t have the same ambition
it doesn’t have the same passion you know you’ve devoted your from you know
know you’ve devoted your from you know you’re from Fargo North Dakota and
you’re from Fargo North Dakota and that’s all you wanted to do is get out
that’s all you wanted to do is get out of Fargo and make it to Broadway and you
of Fargo and make it to Broadway and you may eat it right it doesn’t have the
may eat it right it doesn’t have the same kind of passion and this is because
same kind of passion and this is because these are finite goals there’s a lot of
these are finite goals there’s a lot of studies that have been done with
studies that have been done with athletes who have finite goals to become
athletes who have finite goals to become the greatest X in the world right so
the greatest X in the world right so Andre Agassi was one of these one of
Andre Agassi was one of these one of these athletes he wanted to become the
these athletes he wanted to become the greatest tennis player that ever lived
greatest tennis player that ever lived guess what everyone in his life he would
guess what everyone in his life he would he would view them through how do you
he would view them through how do you help me get to that everything was how
help me get to that everything was how does this help me get to that everything
does this help me get to that everything was a transaction to how do you help me
was a transaction to how do you help me move to there and then you know what
move to there and then you know what happens he achieved that he became the
happens he achieved that he became the greatest tennis player in the world and
greatest tennis player in the world and you know what happened immediately after
you know what happened immediately after depression Michael Phelps set out to
depression Michael Phelps set out to become the most medaled Olympian in
become the most medaled Olympian in history do you know what he achieved it
history do you know what he achieved it you’re not happened immediately after
you’re not happened immediately after depression they spend their whole life
depression they spend their whole life working for one goal though most will
working for one goal though most will never get it the few that do don’t know
never get it the few that do don’t know what to do next because their goals were
what to do next because their goals were finite their goals were finite right and
finite their goals were finite right and so there are finite components to your
so there are finite components to your career but your career should be
career but your career should be infinite so yes of course you have to
infinite so yes of course you have to win the finite game you have to get the
win the finite game you have to get the part but immediately when you get the
part but immediately when you get the part
part now you convert to infinite now you
now you convert to infinite now you convert to the reason why you wanted to
convert to the reason why you wanted to do this in the first place by the way
do this in the first place by the way team athletics doesn’t suffer the same
team athletics doesn’t suffer the same thing so when the team wins the Super
thing so when the team wins the Super Bowl the team wins the Stanley Cup
Bowl the team wins the Stanley Cup there is no depression afterwards
there is no depression afterwards because there was a team because they
because there was a team because they knew it wasn’t about in each of them and
knew it wasn’t about in each of them and as individuals is about the group that
as individuals is about the group that had to work together there’s
had to work together there’s relationships as opposed to solo
relationships as opposed to solo individual and I think one of the
individual and I think one of the stupidest things that artists do is
stupidest things that artists do is think that they’re in this alone or
think that they’re in this alone or worse try to do it alone you’re you’re
worse try to do it alone you’re you’re stupid
stupid right how do you have a marriage in with
right how do you have a marriage in with one person paying attention to the
one person paying attention to the marriage it takes two right how do you
marriage it takes two right how do you do anything difficult in the world by
do anything difficult in the world by yourself you can’t is the answer human
yourself you can’t is the answer human beings are just not smart enough and
beings are just not smart enough and just not strong enough we’re just not we
just not strong enough we’re just not we don’t even have the emotional fortitude
don’t even have the emotional fortitude to do it this concept of courage and
to do it this concept of courage and sticking with it it’s all
sticking with it it’s all courage is an external thing right so I
courage is an external thing right so I have met people who literally have
have met people who literally have courage what we would call courage they
courage what we would call courage they have put their lives on the line they’ve
have put their lives on the line they’ve thrown themselves into harm’s way in
thrown themselves into harm’s way in order to save the life of someone else
order to save the life of someone else they have done something that we would
they have done something that we would consider mad that violates all tenets of
consider mad that violates all tenets of survive you knows that we’re supposed to
survive you knows that we’re supposed to do things to make to survive so that
do things to make to survive so that someone else will survive current real
someone else will survive current real courage and I’ve talked to them and I
courage and I’ve talked to them and I think always say why did you do it
think always say why did you do it you’ve got a wife you’ve got kids why
you’ve got a wife you’ve got kids why would you do that they all give me the
would you do that they all give me the same answer every time because they
same answer every time because they would have done it for me because
would have done it for me because someone else would have done the same
someone else would have done the same for me
for me it is the absolute confidence that the
it is the absolute confidence that the person to the left and the person to the
person to the left and the person to the right will do the same for me that gives
right will do the same for me that gives them the courage to do amazing things it
them the courage to do amazing things it is external they’re the most the world’s
is external they’re the most the world’s most famous famous trapeze artist would
most famous famous trapeze artist would never try a brand new death-defying act
never try a brand new death-defying act for the first time without a net that’s
for the first time without a net that’s madness that’s what relationships are
madness that’s what relationships are the net right the day’s you’ve not sure
the net right the day’s you’ve not sure you can do it the day’s you’re beaten up
you can do it the day’s you’re beaten up the days you’re hard on yourself the
the days you’re hard on yourself the days you’re depressed the days you
days you’re depressed the days you wonder why it’s worth it simply having
wonder why it’s worth it simply having someone in your life agos I believe in
someone in your life agos I believe in you you got this I’m here we’ll do it
you you got this I’m here we’ll do it together cry on my shoulder that’s what
together cry on my shoulder that’s what gives us the courage to go back the next
gives us the courage to go back the next day it’s not us it’s not us
day it’s not us it’s not us when you become a Marine
when you become a Marine the recruits will sit on the floor of
the recruits will sit on the floor of their barracks and they will watch as
their barracks and they will watch as their drill instructor for the next 13
their drill instructor for the next 13 weeks takes the drill instructor oath
weeks takes the drill instructor oath right in front of them right now this is
right in front of them right now this is the person to be yelling in their face
the person to be yelling in their face for 13 weeks right and they hear that
for 13 weeks right and they hear that drilling truck structure say I will
drilling truck structure say I will continue to believe in you even when you
continue to believe in you even when you stop believing in yourself that’s what
stop believing in yourself that’s what gives them courage to Kate keep going
gives them courage to Kate keep going right if you think that you can do this
right if you think that you can do this alone you cannot and I wish that artists
alone you cannot and I wish that artists would be more supportive of each other
would be more supportive of each other at auditions you will look at each other
at auditions you will look at each other like you’re the enemies right like
like you’re the enemies right like you’re gonna take my part right as
you’re gonna take my part right as opposed to saying to somebody good luck
opposed to saying to somebody good luck or you got this I believe in you you’re
or you got this I believe in you you’re so good I hope you get it and have
so good I hope you get it and have genuine joy when they do I’m not talking
genuine joy when they do I’m not talking about strangers not talk about everybody
about strangers not talk about everybody in the room I’m talking about people you
in the room I’m talking about people you know I’m talking about your friends who
know I’m talking about your friends who show up for the same audition I mean so
show up for the same audition I mean so many people when somebody else gets a
many people when somebody else gets a part of the they don’t deserve well
part of the they don’t deserve well maybe they were one of those artists who
maybe they were one of those artists who spoke about what they believe and they
spoke about what they believe and they happened to connect with the person in
happened to connect with the person in the room and maybe they’ve had 13
the room and maybe they’ve had 13 failures before you and you get every
failures before you and you get every now and then you get every third one
now and then you get every third one they do deserve it sometimes it’s
they do deserve it sometimes it’s completely unfair I have a friend who
completely unfair I have a friend who auditioned for cabaret she auditioned so
auditioned for cabaret she auditioned so many times that they knew her they loved
many times that they knew her they loved her right and she went in one time she
her right and she went in one time she told me the story how she went in one
told me the story how she went in one time they go oh you’re perfect you’re
time they go oh you’re perfect you’re perfect the problem is we want a
perfect the problem is we want a brunette and you’re a blonde seriously
brunette and you’re a blonde seriously that’s why they threw her out because
that’s why they threw her out because they have no imagination she’ll die her
they have no imagination she’ll die her hair never occurred to them she’s a
hair never occurred to them she’s a blonde she didn’t fit the image my point
blonde she didn’t fit the image my point is it’s unfair it’s unfair get over it
is it’s unfair it’s unfair get over it you know it’s it’s unfair right it’s not
you know it’s it’s unfair right it’s not a meritocracy it’s just not right it’s
a meritocracy it’s just not right it’s just not and so I think I think this
just not and so I think I think this idea of relationships III wish artists
idea of relationships III wish artists especially performing artists had
especially performing artists had support groups for each other
support groups for each other III don’t mean I mean not online not
III don’t mean I mean not online not over text I mean every last Thursday of
over text I mean every last Thursday of every month a group of there might be
every month a group of there might be ten or fifteen you of in the group and
ten or fifteen you of in the group and whoever can show up you go out for
whoever can show up you go out for dinner or you meet at someone’s house
dinner or you meet at someone’s house you just talk sometimes you talk about
you just talk sometimes you talk about the business and sometimes you don’t it
the business and sometimes you don’t it doesn’t matter but every last Thursday
doesn’t matter but every last Thursday of every month this group of artists who
of every month this group of artists who are all going through the same thing
meet let me tell you the power of that and the importance of that and I’ll give
and the importance of that and I’ll give you an extreme example so that you have
you an extreme example so that you have no excuse to say well it wouldn’t work
no excuse to say well it wouldn’t work for us I met a former marine recently
for us I met a former marine recently named Zack Zack reached out to us we’re
named Zack Zack reached out to us we’re not really sure why he’s not really sure
not really sure why he’s not really sure why but he did and he wrote an email
why but he did and he wrote an email that touched us and so I called Zack and
that touched us and so I called Zack and I cried with him on the phone and I
I cried with him on the phone and I wanted to meet him I actually got to
wanted to meet him I actually got to meet him this week Zack left the Marine
meet him this week Zack left the Marine Corps and suffered serious PTSD he
Corps and suffered serious PTSD he refused to call at PTSD because he was
refused to call at PTSD because he was only deployed once and to him PTSD is
only deployed once and to him PTSD is actually a badge of honor you earn if
actually a badge of honor you earn if you deploy multiple multiple times so he
you deploy multiple multiple times so he hadn’t earned the right to say I have
hadn’t earned the right to say I have PTSD in his mind this is what he said
PTSD in his mind this is what he said and it was so bad and the depression was
and it was so bad and the depression was so hard the nightmares were so awful
so hard the nightmares were so awful that Zack decided to kill himself the
that Zack decided to kill himself the way he decided to kill himself
way he decided to kill himself was that he took his motorcycle out on
was that he took his motorcycle out on the highway and he chose a truck and he
the highway and he chose a truck and he was gonna Ram his motorcycle into the
was gonna Ram his motorcycle into the back of the truck and so he
back of the truck and so he was going 150 miles an hour down the
was going 150 miles an hour down the highway and right as he was about to hit
highway and right as he was about to hit the truck for some weird reason the
the truck for some weird reason the truck changed lanes and he just went
truck changed lanes and he just went right past it a completely different
right past it a completely different time he decided to try again and you
time he decided to try again and you know when when a highway splits or
know when when a highway splits or there’s a bridge this is usually a some
there’s a bridge this is usually a some sort of concrete bollard you know Zack
sort of concrete bollard you know Zack decided to ram his motorcycle into the
decided to ram his motorcycle into the concrete bollard he was upgrading his
concrete bollard he was upgrading his strategy because it can’t move he he was
strategy because it can’t move he he was hard on the throttle driving straight
hard on the throttle driving straight towards a concrete bollard nobody’s
towards a concrete bollard nobody’s exactly sure what happened or why it
exactly sure what happened or why it happened but his back tire skidded on
happened but his back tire skidded on dirt and it pushed him out of the way
didn’t die so he tried again he decided this time to ride his bike into oncoming
this time to ride his bike into oncoming traffic so on the highway one night he
traffic so on the highway one night he drove into oncoming traffic turn the
drove into oncoming traffic turn the lights off his motorcycle and drove
lights off his motorcycle and drove trying to hit a car and all the cars
trying to hit a car and all the cars kept honking and driving around him he
kept honking and driving around him he didn’t die he tried a fourth time and he
didn’t die he tried a fourth time and he wouldn’t tell us that story but it
wouldn’t tell us that story but it didn’t work and so he realized he
didn’t work and so he realized he probably has to keep living and he
probably has to keep living and he realized what he was missing was people
realized what he was missing was people who get him and he met a soldier who
who get him and he met a soldier who says I know what you’re going through
says I know what you’re going through come and work with me and Zack now has
come and work with me and Zack now has devoted his life to helping other
devoted his life to helping other Marines who are struggling people who
Marines who are struggling people who they feel alone and they feel that
they feel alone and they feel that nobody gets them they can ask for help
nobody gets them they can ask for help and there’s plenty of support groups and
and there’s plenty of support groups and people and friends and sisters and
people and friends and sisters and brothers who want to love them and hold
brothers who want to love them and hold them but they have no idea what they
them but they have no idea what they went through and so it’s Marines helping
went through and so it’s Marines helping Marines
Marines it’s soldiers helping soldiers its
it’s soldiers helping soldiers its sailors helping sailors it’s Airmen
sailors helping sailors it’s Airmen helping airmen they don’t even let
helping airmen they don’t even let Airmen help Marines Marines help Marines
Airmen help Marines Marines help Marines soldiers help soldiers sailors help
soldiers help soldiers sailors help sailors and airmen help Erman somebody
sailors and airmen help Erman somebody who totally understands what you’ve gone
who totally understands what you’ve gone through and says I’ll be there for you
through and says I’ll be there for you so when they say you’ve got to go see a
so when they say you’ve got to go see a shrink
shrink I’m not seeing a shrink like dude I was
I’m not seeing a shrink like dude I was there I know exactly what you’re going
there I know exactly what you’re going through
through telling you gotta see one they will look
telling you gotta see one they will look after you and then they’ll introduce you
after you and then they’ll introduce you to a psychologist who was a marine not
to a psychologist who was a marine not just some random psychologist or some
just some random psychologist or some random doctor they keep it in the family
random doctor they keep it in the family right and he’s fantastic
right and he’s fantastic and he’s happy and he has purpose and I
and he’s happy and he has purpose and I mean what an amazing human being we got
mean what an amazing human being we got to meet you know he’s such a good guy
to meet you know he’s such a good guy so if it works for them artists need to
so if it works for them artists need to help artists actors need to help actors
help artists actors need to help actors dancers need to help dancers singers
dancers need to help dancers singers need to help singers triple threats need
need to help singers triple threats need to help triple threats you got it you
to help triple threats you got it you got to create community because your
got to create community because your friends don’t know the world you live in
friends don’t know the world you live in they don’t know they’re like you live
they don’t know they’re like you live they can’t relate they’re
they can’t relate they’re well-intentioned they just don’t
well-intentioned they just don’t understand you have to help each other
understand you have to help each other genuinely form a group of people who
genuinely form a group of people who love each other just go do think good
love each other just go do think good bowling together it doesn’t matter what
bowling together it doesn’t matter what you do but you’ve got to have community
you do but you’ve got to have community you guys have very weak community and
you guys have very weak community and it’s most evident when you’re waiting
it’s most evident when you’re waiting I’ve gone I’ve gone just out of
I’ve gone I’ve gone just out of curiosity I went and hung out I do
curiosity I went and hung out I do things like this I went I because I hear
things like this I went I because I hear you guys talking about it I want to see
you guys talking about it I want to see was all about so I went by a new open I
was all about so I went by a new open I went to one of those places that have
went to one of those places that have all the auditions and I just went and
all the auditions and I just went and hung out I wouldn’t just hung out and it
hung out I wouldn’t just hung out and it was awful
was awful he was I hated every second of it I
he was I hated every second of it I wasn’t even auditioning and I didn’t
wasn’t even auditioning and I didn’t want to be there I could feel the
want to be there I could feel the tension I could see the daggers I could
tension I could see the daggers I could feel the hatred I could feel the
feel the hatred I could feel the jealousy I could feel the insecurity I
jealousy I could feel the insecurity I could see it and it was awful and I
could see it and it was awful and I hated every second and I didn’t see
hated every second and I didn’t see anybody and people knew each other
anybody and people knew each other people like hey you know people in which
people like hey you know people in which I didn’t see anybody offer support to
I didn’t see anybody offer support to anybody somebody practicing their lines
anybody somebody practicing their lines and somebody was just hanging around
and somebody was just hanging around nobody said let me help you I didn’t see
nobody said let me help you I didn’t see any of them it was gross so so the
any of them it was gross so so the question was about visualization and and
question was about visualization and and while watching the Olympics you’re
while watching the Olympics you’re watching some of these these super high
watching some of these these super high performers and some of them talked about
performers and some of them talked about visualizing this one athlete said I’m
visualizing this one athlete said I’m uncomfortable visualizing right does
uncomfortable visualizing right does that what happened you’re saying it’s in
that what happened you’re saying it’s in comes oh oh that’s a different situation
comes oh oh that’s a different situation all together so you’re uncomfortable
all together so you’re uncomfortable visualizing success
visualizing success [Music]
so there’s finite success and then they’re staying in the game they’re
they’re staying in the game they’re different finite success and you have to
different finite success and you have to play finite games within the infinite
play finite games within the infinite you have to write and there as long as
you have to write and there as long as there’s a beginning middle and end
there’s a beginning middle and end that’s a finite game and we all have to
that’s a finite game and we all have to agree on what the rules of the game are
agree on what the rules of the game are we all agree that once the parts are
we all agree that once the parts are given out the game is over and everybody
given out the game is over and everybody agrees to that that’s how we know it’s
agrees to that that’s how we know it’s the end but there nobody knows what the
the end but there nobody knows what the end after that is because we haven’t
end after that is because we haven’t agreed upon it or nobody’s even agreed
agreed upon it or nobody’s even agreed upon what success is is it money
upon what success is is it money is it number of parts landed is it the
is it number of parts landed is it the size of the part you get is it being on
size of the part you get is it being on the front or being in the back like is
the front or being in the back like is it better to be the lead and a small
it better to be the lead and a small play or in the chorus of a big one like
play or in the chorus of a big one like I don’t know right the point is we
I don’t know right the point is we haven’t agreed and we haven’t agreed on
haven’t agreed and we haven’t agreed on the timeframe well you have to be able
the timeframe well you have to be able to land a part in four years otherwise
to land a part in four years otherwise you’re a failure or you’re a success
you’re a failure or you’re a success like we haven’t agreed that’s the
like we haven’t agreed that’s the infinite part of it right there are
infinite part of it right there are finite components within but that’s the
finite components within but that’s the infinite part of it so the the the you
infinite part of it so the the the you have to get comfortable visualizing I
have to get comfortable visualizing I hate to tell you but it has to be on
hate to tell you but it has to be on your own terms right
your own terms right and it’s the difference between seeing
and it’s the difference between seeing in the trees and seeing the path is if
in the trees and seeing the path is if you’re saying I’m uncomfortable seeing
you’re saying I’m uncomfortable seeing success what you’re saying is I’d rather
success what you’re saying is I’d rather look at trees and here’s the good news
look at trees and here’s the good news you’ll hit them
you’ll hit them right like there’s a narrative in your
right like there’s a narrative in your head and that narrative has to change
head and that narrative has to change because you will fulfill your own
because you will fulfill your own narrative right I’ll tell you a funny
narrative right I’ll tell you a funny story that makes my point in a secure
story that makes my point in a secure his way but it’s a funny story so I
his way but it’s a funny story so I wanted to prove that all marketing was
wanted to prove that all marketing was the same thing no matter what you were
the same thing no matter what you were selling it was always the same thing
selling it was always the same thing right and good marketing talked about
right and good marketing talked about the buyer and bad marketing talked about
the buyer and bad marketing talked about the seller makes sense I versus you
the seller makes sense I versus you right so to illustrate my point I wanted
right so to illustrate my point I wanted to prove that what the homeless do and
to prove that what the homeless do and what Microsoft does is the same thing so
what Microsoft does is the same thing so if you think about what the homeless do
if you think about what the homeless do there is advertising they sit there with
there is advertising they sit there with a little sign that says I’m homeless I’m
a little sign that says I’m homeless I’m hungry I got six kids I’m a veteran like
hungry I got six kids I’m a veteran like whatever whatever whatever trying to
whatever whatever whatever trying to appeal to everybody that’s called a
appeal to everybody that’s called a little billboard right Microsoft has a
little billboard right Microsoft has a billboard that says more memory bigger
billboard that says more memory bigger screen all the rest of it right more RAM
screen all the rest of it right more RAM or ROM right and what the homeless are
or ROM right and what the homeless are selling is goodwill so if you walk past
selling is goodwill so if you walk past a homeless person you put money in their
a homeless person you put money in their cup you feel good if you give them
cup you feel good if you give them nothing you either feel nothing or feel
nothing you either feel nothing or feel bad you paid for that feeling there’s an
bad you paid for that feeling there’s an exchange of consideration I sold you
exchange of consideration I sold you goodwill you paid for it you got it
goodwill you paid for it you got it right they’re selling goodwill that’s
right they’re selling goodwill that’s what they’re doing is selling the
what they’re doing is selling the feeling of goodwill so I found a
feeling of goodwill so I found a homeless person who was willing to help
homeless person who was willing to help me and her her sign was pretty typical
me and her her sign was pretty typical and I found out that she makes between
and I found out that she makes between twenty and thirty dollars a day selling
twenty and thirty dollars a day selling goodwill and she works in 8 to 10-hour
goodwill and she works in 8 to 10-hour day right $30 is considered a good day
day right $30 is considered a good day right selling goodwill like I said her
right selling goodwill like I said her sign was pretty typical so I asked her
sign was pretty typical so I asked her if I could change her sign we did and
if I could change her sign we did and the sign that I gave her she made $40 in
the sign that I gave her she made $40 in two hours the sign that I gave her said
two hours the sign that I gave her said if you only give once a month please
if you only give once a month please think of me next time it wasn’t about
think of me next time it wasn’t about the seller it was about the giver
the seller it was about the giver what are the reasons people say they
what are the reasons people say they don’t give how do I know that they’re
don’t give how do I know that they’re genuine I can’t give to everyone so I
genuine I can’t give to everyone so I simply answer the questions if you only
simply answer the questions if you only give once a month please think of me
give once a month please think of me next time I know you can’t give to
next time I know you can’t give to everybody I’m legit
everybody I’m legit that’s all right now here’s the point I
that’s all right now here’s the point I was gonna make she could have made $150
was gonna make she could have made $150 that day but after she made her $40 in
that day but after she made her $40 in two hours she left because one of the
two hours she left because one of the reasons she’s homeless or we could we
reasons she’s homeless or we could we couldn’t surmise that one of the reason
couldn’t surmise that one of the reason she’s homeless is she’s decided that she
she’s homeless is she’s decided that she needs 20 or 30 dollars to live per day
needs 20 or 30 dollars to live per day so once she had it she moved on
so once she had it she moved on that’s a narrative it’s a narrative
that’s a narrative it’s a narrative right so she’ll stay there because she
right so she’ll stay there because she didn’t sit longer it’s a narrative so
didn’t sit longer it’s a narrative so there’s a wonderful little trick you can
there’s a wonderful little trick you can use with your narrative right just add
use with your narrative right just add the word yet at the end okay I’ll never
the word yet at the end okay I’ll never get I’m not famous yet not that talented
get I’m not famous yet not that talented yet I’m so bad I’m not good at auditions
yet I’m so bad I’m not good at auditions like I need to get better any like I
like I need to get better any like I suck at auditions for now right you can
suck at auditions for now right you can just add a couple of words of hope or
just add a couple of words of hope or opportunity or the potential for future
opportunity or the potential for future or some sort of infinite component that
or some sort of infinite component that will profoundly change your narrative we
will profoundly change your narrative we all get hard on ourselves we all bleed
all get hard on ourselves we all bleed ourselves up and by the way in your
ourselves up and by the way in your community when you start going out every
community when you start going out every last Thursday of every month right and
last Thursday of every month right and somebody says I suck at this one of you
somebody says I suck at this one of you will say for now you’ll you’ll you’ll
will say for now you’ll you’ll you’ll correct them I’ll never make it yeah
correct them I’ll never make it yeah just you don’t have to yell at them
just you don’t have to yell at them screaming like no you got to be positive
screaming like no you got to be positive just just just throw in a word at the
just just just throw in a word at the end of the sentence for them so what you
end of the sentence for them so what you have is a narrative so I’ll give you one
have is a narrative so I’ll give you one more Olympic story I was also watching
more Olympic story I was also watching the Olympics and this is what I mean I
the Olympics and this is what I mean I realized this when I was watching the
realized this when I was watching the London Olympics so couple Olympics ago
London Olympics so couple Olympics ago and I was annoyed by how all the
and I was annoyed by how all the journalists asked all the athletes the
journalists asked all the athletes the same stupid question literally everyone
same stupid question literally everyone were you nervous or are you nervous
were you nervous or are you nervous whether it was before or after the event
whether it was before or after the event every single time and every single time
every single time and every single time all the athletes gave the exact same
all the athletes gave the exact same answer
answer no as excited no I’m excited
no as excited no I’m excited every single time these elite athletes
every single time these elite athletes had learned to interpret body stimulus
had learned to interpret body stimulus what is what are the signs of
what is what are the signs of nervousness your heart races you
nervousness your heart races you visualize the future you clamp your
visualize the future you clamp your hands get clammy what’s this what did
hands get clammy what’s this what did the stimulus for excitement your heart
the stimulus for excitement your heart races you visualize the future your
races you visualize the future your hands get clammy they had learned to
hands get clammy they had learned to interpret what their buddy was telling
interpret what their buddy was telling them not as nerves but as excitement and
them not as nerves but as excitement and the reason the journalists said were you
the reason the journalists said were you nervous is because they would be nervous
nervous is because they would be nervous athletes would never say that to each
athletes would never say that to each other they say that was exciting so I
other they say that was exciting so I tried I did a little test on myself
tried I did a little test on myself right I’m on a plane we start hitting
right I’m on a plane we start hitting some really bad turbulence I go and then
some really bad turbulence I go and then I say to myself literally out loud this
I say to myself literally out loud this is exciting and I was fine and I was
is exciting and I was fine and I was fine so I do it a lot now when I find
fine so I do it a lot now when I find myself getting nervous I say to myself
myself getting nervous I say to myself this is so exciting and I’ll explain the
this is so exciting and I’ll explain the reason to myself why so like an actor
reason to myself why so like an actor you don’t get nervous when you’re going
you don’t get nervous when you’re going to stage anymore
to stage anymore but occasionally you do so I get to go
but occasionally you do so I get to go on stage a lot and I don’t really get
on stage a lot and I don’t really get nervous much anymore but I was going to
nervous much anymore but I was going to present to 3000 Chiefs of Police right
present to 3000 Chiefs of Police right in the middle of all this police
in the middle of all this police brutality hullabaloo and I got really
brutality hullabaloo and I got really nervous because the stakes are really
nervous because the stakes are really high you know and I was literally
high you know and I was literally getting nervous backstage and I said to
getting nervous backstage and I said to myself this is so exciting I have an
myself this is so exciting I have an opportunity to talk to a group of people
opportunity to talk to a group of people who can actually affect change in this
who can actually affect change in this country this is really exciting now I
country this is really exciting now I could have said the same thing I’m so
could have said the same thing I’m so nervous
nervous I’m about to talk to people who could
I’m about to talk to people who could but the interpretation was excitement
but the interpretation was excitement just changed the narrative it works
just changed the narrative it works brilliantly well I should give shorter
brilliantly well I should give shorter answers
we got a lot of questions before the event about the relationship of an
event about the relationship of an artist to time and I you are someone who
artist to time and I you are someone who is currently working under a deadline so
is currently working under a deadline so you can relate how when you are a person
you can relate how when you are a person who wants to create something and then
who wants to create something and then someone says great please create this
someone says great please create this for me it’s due on such-and-such a day
for me it’s due on such-and-such a day can you just talk about what that
can you just talk about what that relationship is like and how you manage
relationship is like and how you manage it I think some people are better at it
it I think some people are better at it and some people are worse at I don’t
and some people are worse at I don’t think there’s a universal answer for
think there’s a universal answer for this one you know I really admire
this one you know I really admire artists anybody that have discipline you
artists anybody that have discipline you know so I know writers people ask me
know so I know writers people ask me what’s your writing process because you
what’s your writing process because you know do good because some writers treat
know do good because some writers treat it like a job they write from 9:00 to
it like a job they write from 9:00 to 5:00 some artists treated as a goal and
5:00 some artists treated as a goal and where my 2500 words stay even if what I
where my 2500 words stay even if what I write is crap right I do neither of
write is crap right I do neither of those things but it just doesn’t work
those things but it just doesn’t work for me I’ve tried it just doesn’t work
for me I’ve tried it just doesn’t work my process is days of guilt and
my process is days of guilt and self-loathing punctuated by hours of
self-loathing punctuated by hours of sheer brilliance and I don’t know when
sheer brilliance and I don’t know when there’s hours and I don’t know when
there’s hours and I don’t know when there’s hours strike that’s my process I
there’s hours strike that’s my process I think the the relationship with with
think the the relationship with with time is you know it’s like you know who
time is you know it’s like you know who helped me on this and I can I can
helped me on this and I can I can empathize I can relate because of my
empathize I can relate because of my sophomore work you know because we spend
sophomore work you know because we spend somebody asked me how long did it take
somebody asked me how long did it take you to write start with Y which is my
you to write start with Y which is my first book and my answer was every day
first book and my answer was every day of my life up until that day right the
of my life up until that day right the problem is with your second work it’s
problem is with your second work it’s like okay you have a year
like okay you have a year but it took me every day of my life up
but it took me every day of my life up until that day to write the first one I
until that day to write the first one I am not sure I can do it in a year and
am not sure I can do it in a year and people would always ask me you know I
people would always ask me you know I think they were being they’re trying to
think they were being they’re trying to be helpful but they would say things to
be helpful but they would say things to me like how are you going to do a second
me like how are you going to do a second TED talk as famous as the first one how
TED talk as famous as the first one how are you gonna write a second book as
are you gonna write a second book as good as the first one it’s like thank
good as the first one it’s like thank you thank you thank you thank you and it
you thank you thank you thank you and it was actually Elizabeth Gilbert’s
was actually Elizabeth Gilbert’s TED talk that helped me she gave this
TED talk that helped me she gave this wonderful TED talk where she talked
wonderful TED talk where she talked about the concept of genius right where
about the concept of genius right where prior to the I think was the Renaissance
prior to the I think was the Renaissance probably was the Renaissance prior to
probably was the Renaissance prior to the Renaissance the or maybe probably
the Renaissance the or maybe probably just doing the Renaissance the the
just doing the Renaissance the the concept of genius was a daemon that
concept of genius was a daemon that lived in the walls so if somebody
lived in the walls so if somebody produced a marvelous work we would say
produced a marvelous work we would say of them he had his genius his genius was
of them he had his genius his genius was with him and if there was a flop they
with him and if there was a flop they would say she didn’t have her genius her
would say she didn’t have her genius her genius wasn’t there right so you could
genius wasn’t there right so you could never take full credit for your success
never take full credit for your success but you never had to beat yourself up so
but you never had to beat yourself up so much if you had a failure either and
much if you had a failure either and somewhere along the line the genius that
somewhere along the line the genius that you had became the genius that you are
you had became the genius that you are she’s a genius and for their for their
she’s a genius and for their for their profound work that they produced and now
profound work that they produced and now you have to live up to that and the
you have to live up to that and the stress of living up to being a genius
stress of living up to being a genius because the one thing that you did that
because the one thing that you did that none of us really know how we did it
none of us really know how we did it because it was largely accidental even
because it was largely accidental even though we take all the credit is the
though we take all the credit is the stress is overwhelming the stress is
stress is overwhelming the stress is overwhelming and then you add deadlines
overwhelming and then you add deadlines and the rest of it so I thank goodness
and the rest of it so I thank goodness learn that lesson before I started my
learn that lesson before I started my second work and was at complete peace
second work and was at complete peace with the fact that I had an inspiration
with the fact that I had an inspiration not that I was inspired or I am inspired
not that I was inspired or I am inspired when I produced my first work
when I produced my first work and was totally comfortable that I would
and was totally comfortable that I would not produce a second work as good as the
not produce a second work as good as the first I
first I I removed the comparison and my only
I removed the comparison and my only goal was to produce as good a work as
goal was to produce as good a work as that work could be irrespective of the
that work could be irrespective of the other work I wasn’t trying to make this
other work I wasn’t trying to make this work
work better than that work I wasn’t trying to
better than that work I wasn’t trying to make this work as good as that work I
make this work as good as that work I was trying to make this work the best
was trying to make this work the best work it could be by its own standards
work it could be by its own standards and its own metrics in fact the
and its own metrics in fact the techniques that I used to write the
techniques that I used to write the first one I had completely different
first one I had completely different techniques to write the second one all
techniques to write the second one all the things that I relied on that helped
the things that I relied on that helped me stay productive and the first thing
me stay productive and the first thing they didn’t even work in the second one
they didn’t even work in the second one so I had to invent entirely new systems
so I had to invent entirely new systems to help me produce be productive in the
to help me produce be productive in the second one it literally was an entirely
second one it literally was an entirely different experience
different experience with zero stress of comparison so I
with zero stress of comparison so I think time is the same thing by the way
think time is the same thing by the way my first book was exactly on time I
my first book was exactly on time I literally handed my manuscript in on the
literally handed my manuscript in on the day apparently that’s a big deal
day apparently that’s a big deal apparently nobody does that I didn’t
apparently nobody does that I didn’t know that was my first book nobody told
know that was my first book nobody told me that nobody really hands it in on
me that nobody really hands it in on time but I did literally on the day my
time but I did literally on the day my second book was a year late because I
second book was a year late because I had to write a good book based on its
had to write a good book based on its own standards and I couldn’t do it in
own standards and I couldn’t do it in the timeframe now I’m the first to admit
the timeframe now I’m the first to admit I’m the first to admit that when you
I’m the first to admit that when you write one book that sells exceptionally
write one book that sells exceptionally well the publisher is much more patient
well the publisher is much more patient with the second one
with the second one I get that Susan Cain took six years to
I get that Susan Cain took six years to write the book quiet it’s her first book
write the book quiet it’s her first book six years right she’s working on another
six years right she’s working on another book it’s probably gonna take her six
book it’s probably gonna take her six years she knows that she’s okay with
years she knows that she’s okay with that but like I said before I’m gonna
that but like I said before I’m gonna refer back to the answer I gave before
refer back to the answer I gave before remember I said there’s two ways to
remember I said there’s two ways to manage a career you stand for what you
manage a career you stand for what you stand for and people either buy into her
stand for and people either buy into her don’t it’s much harder you’re gonna get
don’t it’s much harder you’re gonna get fewer parts but my goodness my goodness
fewer parts but my goodness my goodness when you get them or you bend in shape
when you get them or you bend in shape and you play by their rules the same
and you play by their rules the same goes for this right when you say to
goes for this right when you say to somebody I will work I will produce a
somebody I will work I will produce a really good piece of work but the odds
really good piece of work but the odds are pretty high I’m gonna miss the
are pretty high I’m gonna miss the deadline if they are deadline-driven
deadline if they are deadline-driven you won’t get the you won’t get the job
you won’t get the you won’t get the job but you feel like I’m gonna do it on the
but you feel like I’m gonna do it on the deadline no matter what because I want
deadline no matter what because I want this job you’ll produce something I have
this job you’ll produce something I have no doubt it made me really good but
no doubt it made me really good but Susan went in very openly and said I
Susan went in very openly and said I can’t do it in a year I’m not going to
can’t do it in a year I’m not going to do it in a year there’s there’s no
do it in a year there’s there’s no insecurity I’m not gonna do it in a year
insecurity I’m not gonna do it in a year you’ll have the book when I’m done with
you’ll have the book when I’m done with it
it hopefully it will be a few years but
hopefully it will be a few years but you’ll get it when it’s done and they
you’ll get it when it’s done and they went well okay
went well okay that’s my point they bought into her not
that’s my point they bought into her not the deadline right not better or worse
the deadline right not better or worse there’s not better where some publishers
there’s not better where some publishers can afford that and some publishers just
can afford that and some publishers just you need to produce books and they
you need to produce books and they understand that sometimes they put
understand that sometimes they put out onto the marketplace but hey look at
out onto the marketplace but hey look at how many books we got on the market
how many books we got on the market they’re playing a numbers game it’s a
they’re playing a numbers game it’s a different business model but Susan made
different business model but Susan made the decision to to be that kind of
the decision to to be that kind of writer assuming that I meet my deadline
writer assuming that I meet my deadline it’ll be out in October amazingly I
it’ll be out in October amazingly I think this is so funny about modern book
think this is so funny about modern book selling you can actually buy my book on
selling you can actually buy my book on Amazon it’s called the infinite game and
Amazon it’s called the infinite game and I haven’t even finished writing it
I haven’t even finished writing it anything that’s so fantastically funny
anything that’s so fantastically funny but yes you can buy it it is it’s not
but yes you can buy it it is it’s not even the right cover but it’s a cover
even the right cover but it’s a cover [Laughter]
[Laughter] yes yeah those are behind you there was
yes yeah those are behind you there was a question yes yeah
yeah yeah cuz you know what they did wrong yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
wrong yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so the question was the question was so
so the question was the question was so she’s a singer-songwriter but you still
she’s a singer-songwriter but you still perform other people’s works and you
perform other people’s works and you have frustration sometimes when you
have frustration sometimes when you perform other people’s works because you
perform other people’s works because you could do it better you would have done
could do it better you would have done it differently right and I think I think
it differently right and I think I think to do both things you have to be able to
to do both things you have to be able to separate them right which is you you
separate them right which is you you have to be able to say I’m a creator and
have to be able to say I’m a creator and I’m a Terp and I’m an interpreter and
I’m a Terp and I’m an interpreter and you create when it’s time to create new
you create when it’s time to create new interpret it’s time to interpret it’s
interpret it’s time to interpret it’s unfair to you but it’s also unfair to
unfair to you but it’s also unfair to the other creator for you to come in and
the other creator for you to come in and judge their work based on your creative
judge their work based on your creative standards just as when you give your
standards just as when you give your creations to someone else to perform you
creations to someone else to perform you don’t need them or want them to judge
don’t need them or want them to judge your work if you don’t like the work
your work if you don’t like the work they don’t sing it so and again you may
they don’t sing it so and again you may have two parallel paths which is I’m
have two parallel paths which is I’m gonna be this kind of artist for my
gonna be this kind of artist for my creation of them being this kind of
creation of them being this kind of artist for my interpretation but you
artist for my interpretation but you kind of I mean I mean
have at it I mean have at it but yeah yeah and my
I mean have at it but yeah yeah and my question is why do you want the Grammy
question is why do you want the Grammy why do you want the Tony what happens
why do you want the Tony what happens once you get the Grammy so you only want
once you get the Grammy so you only want one Grammy you’re okay with one Grammy
one Grammy you’re okay with one Grammy you only want one Grammy just to say it
you only want one Grammy just to say it did it how many’s how many’s a ton ones
did it how many’s how many’s a ton ones at four is at five is a ten who has the
at four is at five is a ten who has the most
most how many Grammys what person got the
how many Grammys what person got the most do you want that you want more than
most do you want that you want more than that
that why okay okay so what point doesn’t run
why okay okay so what point doesn’t run out just I’m just curious but how many
out just I’m just curious but how many grams you have to win before you switch
grams you have to win before you switch I think that you will you I admire your
I think that you will you I admire your your passion and your gussto I do I love
your passion and your gussto I do I love it and you have that drive and I think
it and you have that drive and I think you’ll be very surprised how how after
you’ll be very surprised how how after the first Grammy the insecurity starts
the first Grammy the insecurity starts to set in that you never had prior okay
to set in that you never had prior okay because because you you will get to the
because because you you will get to the point where you can no longer judge your
point where you can no longer judge your work based on those own merits for
work based on those own merits for yourself you now want everybody else to
yourself you now want everybody else to judge your work for you because that’s
judge your work for you because that’s really what a Grammy is
don’t compare it’s where your talent lies right Michael Sheehan malleable who
lies right Michael Sheehan malleable who is he good though I mean really really
is he good though I mean really really good right there were brilliant
good right there were brilliant brilliant artists sometimes we don’t
brilliant artists sometimes we don’t know who they are like most people don’t
know who they are like most people don’t know their names because they play so
know their names because they play so many roles so differently gary oldman
many roles so differently gary oldman valuable artist Wow
valuable artist Wow the best one of the best what’s his name
the best one of the best what’s his name Daniel day-lewis I mean have you ever
Daniel day-lewis I mean have you ever seen two parts look the same never one
seen two parts look the same never one of the best malleable artists I’ve ever
of the best malleable artists I’ve ever seen in my life
seen in my life Robert DeNiro not Somalia ball great if
Robert DeNiro not Somalia ball great if you like that it’s like I said there’s a
you like that it’s like I said there’s a wonderful review I went to see I went to
wonderful review I went to see I went to see a Philip Glass opera and the review
see a Philip Glass opera and the review read the review was great the review
read the review was great the review said it’s the same tune but if you like
said it’s the same tune but if you like that tune it’s brilliant
not malleable right when when when art sounds like itself that’s that kind of
sounds like itself that’s that kind of art when art can be anything it’s a
art when art can be anything it’s a different of art so don’t for one second
different of art so don’t for one second think one is better or worse right there
think one is better or worse right there are great artists who play themselves
are great artists who play themselves every time and they’re great artists who
every time and they’re great artists who play others every single time
what they want rather than what I am well I think so I think whether you’re
well I think so I think whether you’re an interpretive artist or whether you’re
an interpretive artist or whether you’re a create you know your Creator I I think
a create you know your Creator I I think you should always be showing up to be
you should always be showing up to be yourself right it I mean this is the
yourself right it I mean this is the horrible term authenticity
horrible term authenticity you know because you never want to be
you know because you never want to be what they want you want to bring your
what they want you want to bring your own interpretation to the part and
own interpretation to the part and hopefully they’ll like it it’s a
hopefully they’ll like it it’s a slightly different mental model no I
slightly different mental model no I mean can you imagine you go on a date
mean can you imagine you go on a date and on your first date you say tell me
and on your first date you say tell me how you would like to meet to be I’m a
how you would like to meet to be I’m a valuable artist I’m very comfortable
valuable artist I’m very comfortable I like pleasing people I like people
I like pleasing people I like people being happy I want you to be happy so
being happy I want you to be happy so I’m going to learn what you like and I’m
I’m going to learn what you like and I’m gonna do that right it’s it’s not a good
gonna do that right it’s it’s not a good way to start a relationship right and I
way to start a relationship right and I think the same goes for any kind of
think the same goes for any kind of piece I I want you to bring yourself to
piece I I want you to bring yourself to it because yourself is the only thing
it because yourself is the only thing that distinguishes you from all the
that distinguishes you from all the other performers because training is is
other performers because training is is a commodity rehearsal as a commodity
a commodity rehearsal as a commodity right your resume is the commodity
right your resume is the commodity everybody’s got a couple of great
everybody’s got a couple of great coaches in a couple of great parts and
coaches in a couple of great parts and everybody fudge did a couple you know so
everybody fudge did a couple you know so if everything else is the commodity and
if everything else is the commodity and the only thing that distinguishes you
the only thing that distinguishes you from somebody else is you then I would
from somebody else is you then I would stick with that it’s probably the only
stick with that it’s probably the only thing you’re good at to which is
thing you’re good at to which is yourself your master yeah yeah
yourself your master yeah yeah I mean it’s the same in my business you
I mean it’s the same in my business you know there are people who are much
know there are people who are much smarter than me much more disciplined
smarter than me much more disciplined than me have much greater command of
than me have much greater command of like when I quote studies I can’t
like when I quote studies I can’t remember the studies I was like there
remember the studies I was like there was a study they did a study you know
was a study they did a study you know they who do all the studies you know and
they who do all the studies you know and I’ll stand on the stage of Blake and
I’ll stand on the stage of Blake and I’ll fudge I’ll like get the numbers
I’ll fudge I’ll like get the numbers wrong I’ll be like 80% is like 75% and
wrong I’ll be like 80% is like 75% and there’s a friend of mine who’s in the
there’s a friend of mine who’s in the same who does the similar work who knows
same who does the similar work who knows every study and be like so a Stanford
every study and be like so a Stanford study in 1989 and they found out that
study in 1989 and they found out that 79.6%
79.6% and I was like and he and he thinks it
and I was like and he and he thinks it gives him more credibility he thinks you
gives him more credibility he thinks you have to be able to do that because it
have to be able to do that because it gives credibility and it does I just
gives credibility and it does I just wish I could remember it because I can
wish I could remember it because I can write and it drives him up the wall that
write and it drives him up the wall that I can’t I’m like they did a study and
I can’t I’m like they did a study and like something like this with like about
like something like this with like about 80% I think something like that should
80% I think something like that should go check yourselves and and it drives
go check yourselves and and it drives him nuts but that’s kind of just who I
him nuts but that’s kind of just who I am and I’m at peace with it you know
am and I’m at peace with it you know so what distinguishes me from him is not
so what distinguishes me from him is not that I’m trying to do I really should
that I’m trying to do I really should remember the names of the studies and I
remember the names of the studies and I really should he was kind of you know
really should he was kind of you know unless I wrote him down and I don’t like
unless I wrote him down and I don’t like doing notes unless I put them in a
doing notes unless I put them in a PowerPoint and I refused to do that so
PowerPoint and I refused to do that so so my style is a little more casual
so my style is a little more casual little more relaxed I could get all the
little more relaxed I could get all the data right if I put it up on a slide I’d
data right if I put it up on a slide I’d never get it wrong but I sacrifice the
never get it wrong but I sacrifice the accuracy for this that’s my choice it’s
accuracy for this that’s my choice it’s not better or worse it’s my choice right
side of the room left side a room is showing you up just just saying all the
showing you up just just saying all the questions are coming from the left side
questions are coming from the left side of the room
yes I think there’s a couple of reasons the question was when I talk about what
the question was when I talk about what you do and why you do it
you do and why you do it that the your inclination was that
that the your inclination was that artist is so in touch with their
artist is so in touch with their feelings they inherently would
feelings they inherently would understand the why but what you’ve
understand the why but what you’ve learned is they don’t is that okay
learned is they don’t is that okay why is that I think there’s a couple of
why is that I think there’s a couple of reasons I think one of the reasons is
reasons I think one of the reasons is goes back to community which is you
goes back to community which is you don’t help each other you don’t talk to
don’t help each other you don’t talk to each other it doesn’t come out and
each other it doesn’t come out and because you don’t get to have that depth
because you don’t get to have that depth of conversation with somebody about this
of conversation with somebody about this kind of stuff what are you gonna do it
kind of stuff what are you gonna do it yourself you know like when we do why
yourself you know like when we do why discoveries for anybody is it’s it’s at
discoveries for anybody is it’s it’s at least a pair right we we strongly
least a pair right we we strongly recommend people do it with someone it’s
recommend people do it with someone it’s better it works better so I think part
better it works better so I think part of that is community you’ve actually
of that is community you’ve actually though you may be in touch with your
though you may be in touch with your feelings I don’t think you’ve ever gone
feelings I don’t think you’ve ever gone to the depths you need to go to
to the depths you need to go to understand what your why is which is a
understand what your why is which is a conversation and somebody else listening
conversation and somebody else listening to you and saying I don’t understand why
to you and saying I don’t understand why did you say this forcing you to go
did you say this forcing you to go deeper right that’s number one and I
deeper right that’s number one and I think number two is dare I say it
think number two is dare I say it hubris a little bit of excessive pride I
hubris a little bit of excessive pride I do emotions for a living right and so
do emotions for a living right and so the result is is very generic stuff
the result is is very generic stuff because I’ve talked to plenty of artists
because I’ve talked to plenty of artists and asked them do you know your why and
and asked them do you know your why and they with great confidence say of course
they with great confidence say of course I call my white horse and I say what is
I call my white horse and I say what is it what really inspires me is I want to
it what really inspires me is I want to entertain people like how many people
entertain people like how many people can tell me that what really inspires me
can tell me that what really inspires me is that I can transport people away from
is that I can transport people away from their stress to another world like that
their stress to another world like that is entirely accurate for the entire
is entirely accurate for the entire discipline that’s like an airline
discipline that’s like an airline telling me are why is to get
telling me are why is to get people to where they’re going true but
people to where they’re going true but not proprietary it’s good for the
not proprietary it’s good for the industry so you’re right you’ve cleverly
industry so you’re right you’ve cleverly designed the Y for all entertainment
designed the Y for all entertainment right accurate just too broad and so
right accurate just too broad and so within all entertainment there’s a
within all entertainment there’s a different Y for music there’s a
different Y for music there’s a different Y for acting there’s different
different Y for acting there’s different Y for dancing is it NY performing it’s a
Y for dancing is it NY performing it’s a different wife of creating Brazil is it
different wife of creating Brazil is it all in and then is a different way for
all in and then is a different way for you and the questions that you want to
you and the questions that you want to grapple with are are what about you what
grapple with are are what about you what you do is worth the suffering
entertaining people is worth suffering you know everything
you know everything that you go for in survival jobs and
that you go for in survival jobs and living in a tiny apartment with 12
living in a tiny apartment with 12 roommates is worth is worth some banker
roommates is worth is worth some banker boy paying $400 for ticket to come see
boy paying $400 for ticket to come see you so you can escape his
you so you can escape his stress for the day for two hours
right what is worth what about what you
do is so worth the sacrifice I mean
you’re gonna have that conversation by
yourself unlikely but maybe every last
Thursday of every month another way to
get to that answer is to find the times
in which you did this thing that you
fell in love with this thing it might
have been a commercial flop it might
have been the worst experience of your
life but for some reason this one
specific incident is one specific
experience exemplifies what I love not
like you know do you love your wife I
like her I like her no no do you love
your wife I like her a lot I told you I
like her a lot like it’s a different
standard like them love okay didn’t like
the show didn’t like the whatever it is
you were doing
you loved it find those I’ll give you an
example so I did some work with the
Disney Imagineer
the Disney Imagineers are the ones
responsible for everything physical that
Disney makes the boats the parades the
shows the rides the parks the only thing
they don’t touch is merchandising and
the films but everything else is the
Imagineers they’re incredible
and I went to talk to the Imagineers
about this concept of why and I decided
a spontaneously to demonstrate it to do
an example and I picked a random person
in the audience one of the Imagineers I
picked an older guy because I figured he
was more seen you had been around for a
while and what I didn’t realize I found
out afterwards the guy that I picked had
a nickname at the company his name was
ice chips because he was a cold bastard
[Music]
and people who worked for ice chips
didn’t like working for his chips
because ice chips was hard to work for
hard on them and he and he drove them
hard as a cold bastard
I picked ice chips so I asked ice chips
can you tell me a specific story can you
tell me a specific story that helps me
understand what you loved about being a
Disney Imagineer and he didn’t have to
think too long and he told me the story
he told took five or six minutes to tell
it was wonderful but here’s the short
version he oversaw the design and build
of a brand new ride at Disneyland and on
its opening he decided to go to see it
run for the first time and he was
standing back and watching the parents
and the kids started to line up for the
ride and in the front of the line in
there was a guy in a wheelchair and his
daughter and he said everywhere in the
world what the world sees is a man in a
wheelchair and his daughter he said only
at Disneyland do we only see a father
and his daughter and it’s the only place
that you can ever go where he will never
feel like he’s
a wheelchair with his daughter he will
feel like he’s just a father with his
daughter and if you know anybody who is
in a wheelchair who’s ever gone to
Disneyland it is one of the best design
parks for handicapped disabled and not
only were we all crying but instantly
everybody understood why he was so hard
because to him those were the stakes
instantly everyone wanted to work for
him instantly
everyone wanted him to be hard on them
because they wanted to push to produce
that level of quality to have that kind
of impact in the life of another human
that’s purpose but he had to go through
the process and nobody knew it until he
articulated it they they didn’t like him
but once his Y was clear he didn’t have
to change a thing he did not have to
change a thing
that’s what Y provides it provides
context for who you are to your friends
to people you’re auditioning to they
will understand your interpretation they
understand what you’re bringing to the
part because you start with y and yes
you say it it takes a second it takes a
second where’s your name what do you
what’s your name where’d you come from
it’s just throw it in there ignore the
question right I do it every single time
I go every meeting I have every meeting
that I call us and let me tell you why
I’ve called this meeting every meeting
that I have I let me go why why I wanted
to come to this meeting
and I’ll ask it I want to know why you
took the meeting to please now you can’t
do that yeah
but I will say before we get started
once you know why I took this meeting I
imagine a world that does not yet exist
I imagine a world in which the vast
majority of people wake up every single
morning inspired feel safe at work and
return home
at the end of the day and so I saw the
opportunity to have this meeting as
something that I’d hope will help me
advance that world my name is simon
Sinek and i’m from blood of love it
takes us what that took eight seconds
nobody’s nobody’s ever interrupted me
ever and say oh I just want your name or
I could say my why my why is to inspire
people to do the things that inspire
them so together each of us can change
our world for the better everything I do
is singularly devoted to that I’m hoping
that this affords me the opportunity to
bring that to life what does that six
seconds now you know exactly who I am
you know exactly what I’m gonna bring if
you don’t want it you’re not gonna hire
me if you do want to give me a chance
every single time it’s never failed me
and I use it as my own filter to write
because it’s always in my head so back
in the early days I often get accused
that I that I have the luxury of being
able to turn down things I’ve been
turning down things before I could
afford to I had no money in the bank
literally hand you know hand to mouth I
was living and yet I would turn down
business because it didn’t feel right
didn’t it wasn’t right I chose a
different path I chose this path much
more difficult I mean true story guy
calls me up he says I got your name from
someone who hired you and spoke very
highly of you
thank you I’ve heard about your work
thank you
convince me why I should hire you my
answer don’t what I’m not the right guy
for you which is what my polite was
saying you’re not the right guy for me
I’m not right for this part I’m the
wrong one for this part I’m sorry
I’m not right I bowed out of things all
the time always saying I’m it’s not me
which is true because I want I want this
the ones I loved were the people who
said you’re onto something I don’t think
it’s perfect I don’t think you have all
the answers I think there’s some flaws
in what you’re doing
but I think you’re on to something with
a little grin like I want to work with
you they’re buying my why they’re ready
told me buy what’s flawed but that takes
huge discipline and let me tell you it
does get very hard and you can
compromise now and then for practical
reasons I got it bills to pay I got it I
got it I’m an idealist
I know reality exists but you kind of do
too often like when you’re getting into
shape like if you exercise a lot and you
can have chocolate cake knock yourself
out
you just kind of do too often every now
and then a little bit of out of balance
it’s okay yes right side of the room
personal emotions and to understand
better how the infinite and finite okay
so the first question was remind me how
do you deal with an evolving sense of
why self growth and all the rest of it
okay you only have one why okay you’re
why was fully formed probably in your
mid to late teens it is the sum total of
who you are how you were raised
experiences you had when you were
younger it is who you are the rest of
your life simply offers you
opportunities to live in balance or out
of balance with that why the earlier you
learn it the more likely you can manage
the opportunities you say yes or no to
so that you remain in balance right so
your why has never changed ever
you only have one what you’re talking
about is different things that you’re
doing to bring your Y to life I’ve had a
few careers I had great passion for all
of them at various times and even this
journey that I’m on with this concept of
Y has changed multiple times what I’m
doing has evolved many times the what is
very malleable and flexible but the Y
that’s underlying it’s always been there
it’s always been there so you only have
one Y okay and the self growth is be
coming to terms with it and making sure
that you’re making decisions that keep
you in balance that’s the growth that’s
the good you get and that’s an ongoing
process no one’s perfect at it you get
better and better and better at it right
you can keep reinventing yourself as
long as you can it you can reinvent you
can reinvent it to yourself as long as
it’s consistent with why you do what you
do yeah you can do different things as
long as it’s consistent and you find
that that new thing actually does allow
you to to bring your Y to life that’s
that’s great
and the your second question was what
how the how the infinite game relates to
the why how and what yeah sure yeah yeah
okay so my my my work is
semi-autobiographical my work is about a
journey it’s my journey it just so
happens there other human beings out
there on similar human journeys just so
happens thank goodness so why is where I
started why is about knowing why you do
what you do it’s this higher sense of
purpose cause or belief and it’s the
thing that attracts people to you and
attracts you to people right the problem
is what happens once you’ve been
attracted to all the people that people
are attracted to you that’s when I wrote
leader Z last now that you got the
people what do you do with the people
how do you make an environment in which
people love and trust each other is that
them or is it the environment turns out
it’s the environment get the environment
right you get trust and cooperation get
the environment wrong you get cynicism
paranoia mistrust and self-interest it’s
not the people it’s the environment okay
so now you got this amazing team and
everybody loves each other but the
problem is you work in reality and the
world doesn’t care about your why and
the world doesn’t care about your team
they only care about themselves and what
they get and what they want so how was
an idealist supposed to operate in
reality and that’s where the the
construction of the finite infinite game
has helped me understand and manage how
I go through reality so I’m not just a
an idiot with his head in the clouds
I’m also an idiot with his feet on the
ground and that’s what the that’s what
it is so the concept of why there’s five
things that you need to play the
infinite game right just cause
courageous leadership vulnerable team
worthy adversary and in a flexible
playbook right so the first one just
that’s the why but just cook you have to
have a why to play the infinite game
then courageous leadership you have the
courage to do it say yes and no two
things
say yes to difficult things where’s my
friend with the visualization say yes
difficult things and say no to things
that you know were wrong even though
they may look good on paper we do that
with people all the time right and the
third thing Valle nerble team that’s the
circle of safety that’s leaders eat last
then you add in a worthy adversary okay
where the adversaries about respecting
the people in your industry your
competitors respecting them not hating
them because what you’re worthy
adversaries do what those people in that
audition room do is they reveal to you
all your weaknesses that’s why we get
insecure that’s why we hate people we
hate the people we hate the people who
reveal to us our insecurities they make
us feel bad about ourselves right so
it’s not them it’s you right and that’s
good because that’s a worthy adversary
because we don’t run our best times we
run around a track by ourselves that’s
if you only went to auditions by
yourself you’d actually never improve
because you have nothing to judge
against we run our best times we run in
a race now if your entire goal is to
undermine the competitor of your entire
goals to beat your competition you can
shoot your competitor in the race and
you will get the part you will win the
race but you’ll still be a slow runner
or or you lose the race and you learn
why they ran the RET why they won the
race you learn your weaknesses I’m bad
in the straightaway good it turns bad in
the straightaway I’m only gonna practice
the straightaway
I’m better at sprinting I’m no good at
distance whatever it is and you work
harder and harder because the only true
competitor in an infinite game is
yourself everyone else there is to
reveal your weaknesses to you so you can
find the areas in which you can improve
I’m susceptible to it there is there’s
another author out there that I hate
I hate I hate him and when I look at my
my book ranking on Amazon I don’t look
at anything else my book ranking and his
no one else just the two of us
and when mines up I’m like and when mine
when he’s ahead of me and like doesn’t
deserve it
now he’s super smart he’s super good at
what he does he’s really compelling I
intellectually I know he’s really good
but I hate him so we were invited to
speak on the same stage and the
interviewer said to us why don’t you
guys introduce each other and he said
I’ll go first
Simon so now I had to go first because
he was being funny I’m like funny here’s
what I said to the audience I turned to
him in front of the audience and I said
you make me really insecure I said
because all of your strengths are all of
my weaknesses and he turned to me he
said funny I feel the same about you we
are now close friends we love each other
I love it when his book is doing better
than mine I love it when his careers on
fire I love it when people bring up his
name I’m proud of him and I want his
work out there because I came to terms
can you unpack the playbook oh the open
playbook the fourth one was the worthy
adversary and the flat one is the
flexible playbook of the open playbook
the flexible playbook means that the the
Just Cause is fixed but the path you
take to get there must be flexible so
going to my singer-songwriter friend in
the back the path you take is flexible
you can bring your cause to life in any
way you want it’s the people who say I’m
only a singer and so they only take
singing parts and they close the
opportunity to do things that would
inspire them and inspire others and
force them to work really hard at
something that they’re not already good
at because they haven’t been practicing
for 20 years because they’ve got a fixed
path and the cause becomes malleable is
like through and they justify it as
opposed to saying my cause is fixed and
I’ll take whatever path I need to take
to advance my why so I’m learned this
right I am NOT a public speaker but I do
a lot of public speaking I’m not an
author but I’ve written a bunch of books
I refuse to define myself by what I do
at the time that I did those things or
at the time that I choose to do those
things those are the things that I have
decided are good ways for me to advance
my message in my cause and if I stop
speaking publicly my self-identity is
totally fine like we all have friends
who are doctors and bankers and one
another and when they stop doing that
thing they literally they lose their
self-identity we wrapped too much of our
identity in what we do rather than
define ourselves as devoted to a cause
bigger than ourselves it was Martin
Luther King a public speaker or was he a
man devoted to a cause of course is
devoted to a cause I choose to live a
life devoted to a cause define myself by
none of those things to the point I’m
actually a bastard about it to the point
like when I blur books right they always
write it was the best book I ever read
right and then underneath it’ll say
simon Sinek
and then this is how that you do for
other people
CEO blah blah blah best-selling author
blah blah blah right that’s it the
credibility that’s why they do it right
and imma bastard about it I make them
right this is the best book I ever read
simon Sinek optimist and author of
author always comes second optimist
comes first because if I stopped writing
books and still an optimist my identity
is wrapped into why I do what I do not
what I do
so that’s what the open that’s what the
flexible playbook means it means that
you’re open to the fact that there may
be paths that are different to the one
that you’re on and those paths if you
choose to take them may be extremely
difficult to do I could be one silly
example so Steve Jobs had a very clear
sense of purpose a very clear sense of
cause which is to give the individual
the power to stand up to big brother
right he loved that and he saw the
personal computer is the great way to do
that right that an individual could
compete against a corporation how cool
is that right and he’s already a famous
CEO they’ve had success with the Apple
one they’ve had success with the Apple
two and their next product it’s called
the Lisa right that’s their next big
product now coincidentally at the same
time that they were developing the Lisa
Jobs in a bunch of the senior executives
went to visit Xerox and Xerox showed
them a new product that they invented
called the graphic user interface a new
technology and jobs as he’s leaving
Xerox says to his guys we have to invest
in this this is way better than what
we’re doing this is a leapfrog of what
we’re doing people don’t have to learn a
computer language they can just move a
mouse on the screen that means even more
people could take down the man we have
to invest in this graphic user interface
thing and his guy said Steve are you
crazy we’ve already invested millions of
dollars in countless man-hours in the
Lisa we can’t walk away from it if we do
that we’ll blow up our own company to
which jobs replies better we should blow
it up than someone else that decision
was the Macintosh a computer platform
that profoundly changes computing as we
know it the entire software of Windows
designed to mimic a Macintosh
that’s a flexible playbook that’s a man
with a fixed cause and an open path
which means you might have devoted
thousands of dollars and countless years
becoming X except that’s better and
you’re gonna have to learn a whole new
discipline as we’ve really hard work and
you’re gonna walk away yeah if but it’s
not random and it’s not opportunistic
it’s not because I think I can make more
money here it’s because I found a better
path that will help me advance my cause
I technically we’re done but I’ll keep
going if you want we’ll do a little more
I think should we take any questions
from Facebook or did that not work out
okay okay let’s do a couple Facebook
uestions a if you if you guys need to
leave technically we’re done and you
need to leave you can leave I won’t be
offended oh I have to say goodbye to you
cuz you’re going away for a week come
here no you have come here have a
wonderful wonderful holiday thanks so
much yeah if you need to go that’s fine
I’ll just keep going for those who want
okay so what are certain techniques we
can use to go back to our authentic
state when we what when we feel like we
can’t show our authentic state who
there’s a lot going on on that one well
we don’t okay we how do we get back to
our authentic state we don’t feel like
we can show so have you lost it so
authenticity and I don’t like the word
is let’s because nobody really knows
what it means so authentic what
authenticity means is that you say and
do the things you actually believe
that’s it that’s all it means so if
she’s saying when you don’t feel like
you can show it that means whether she’s
choosing where she feels pressure to not
say and do the things she actually
believes right this is what she means by
being an authentic so though how do you
reclaim your authenticity well one the
easiest way I mean knowing your Y is an
advanced way let’s be honest right
because you can do without knowing your
Y the best way to do it is I’ll go back
to that sense of camaraderie and
friendship which is you have to have
someone in your corner who loves you who
knows you for who you are who loves you
for who you are and wants you to be who
you are and you need someone in your
corner who says you got this be yourself
right I love you so I think the the the
the thing to do is
Brene brown talks about this which is we
don’t build trust by asking for we don’t
build trust by offering help to others
we build trust by asking for help from
others
and so it takes a much more courage to
say somebody I need I need help versus
how can I help you and I think sometimes
we say how can I help you when what we
really mean is I need help and this is
my story
I lost my passion and I was in a dark
place and I was very inauthentic and I
was trying to portray a role that wasn’t
me of successful entrepreneur when I was
a failing entrepreneur and a friend came
to me and said I’m worried about you
so she opened the door and thank
goodness I stepped through it and said I
need your help and I came clean and it
took a huge weight off my shoulders and
all the energy that I was using lying
hiding and faking which is what we’re
doing when we’re being inauthentic I
could now invest that energy and finding
solution the solution I found was this
thing called the Y so it was because of
a friend that my life was changed and
saved not because of me not because of
me my genius was in my friend so I don’t
take any credit for it so it’s the same
thing you know there’s something I’ve
had the opportunity to spend a lot of
time with folks in the military and they
do things very differently to us I’ve
hugged more people in uniform that I
have in suits I’ve cried with more
people in uniform than I’ve cried with
in suits I’ve stood in audiences and
listened to officers give a briefing
that I’ve cried at I’ve never cried when
a CEO give a speech we have colleagues
and co-workers they have brothers and
sisters it is a different relationship
right and I remember I had a I had an
experience where I was on a stage
talking to a group of senior officers in
the Air Force and I told a very very
difficult story for the first time and I
choked up and I couldn’t go I couldn’t
go on you know you get to that point
where you know if you go on you’re gonna
lose it so you just don’t go on
and you just hold it you know you just
don’t because you know if you say one
more word you you love her and so you
don’t and in the private sector I know
what they do they say don’t worry they
say take a minute right they that’s what
they do in the private sector I heard
two words come from a general in the
audience
he said go on very different instruction
he didn’t say take your time he didn’t
say take a moment he didn’t say compose
yourself
he said you’re in a very very very safe
space here right
he said go on it’s all I heard and so I
went on and I cried it was good
so what we need is when we hold back for
fear or concern that we’re going to cry
or that we may accidentally reveal
that instead of saying to somebody take
your time have a moment when you’re
ready instead we say to them go on
that’s stuck with me want to do another
Facebook question yeah if we go back to
my homeless example everybody’s selling
something to somebody yeah so yeah sure
it’s all the same right I think in the
retail industry if we try and link it
back to the arts there are like I’ll put
it this way there is a refusal to
compete here’s what I mean here’s what I
mean any participant in any industry can
get lazy when there is little change in
how that industry operates and then when
there’s a sudden change to how the
industry operates everybody gets angry
panics and points a finger I’ll give you
an example okay I’ll give you two
examples example number one taxi
companies around the world hate Buber
right now here’s the reality the app
that calls a car not proprietary you can
call a taxi with it with an app right
paying with your phone not proprietary
any taxi can do that as well
the reason Ober is eating taxi companies
for lunch is because it’s a better
product and the taxi companies around
the world could have a shitty product
because you’re the only game in town and
we had no choice and now you have a
competitor and instead of competing
you’re getting angry I would gladly take
more cabs than coal services if I got in
the cab and he said hi and it was clean
and I had a nice chat with him and he
wasn’t on the phone and he wasn’t
smoking and in all of these things and I
had some leg room I’d gladly gladly
gladly has nothing to do with the app
the paid mechanism has to do with the
fact that Juno and lyft are just better
is it just a better experience better
product is why I take them it costs a
dollar more whatever I’ll pay for it
it’s not even a price thing I have no
idea but she’s were more expensive but
actually we never compared the same goes
for Starbucks right so there was a lot
of people hate Starbucks because they
put mom and pops out of business right
the reality is the complete opposite
that when Starbucks moves into a
neighborhood mom and pops coffee shops
actually do better for two reasons one
Starbucks attract more customers so
there’s more people and the second
reason is there is a groundswell of
giving back to the local and so more
people go to the mom-and-pop right the
ones that go out of business the ones
that refuse to compete
I’ll give you a real-life example this
goes back a few years a real life
example I’m lactose intolerant right so
I don’t have milk in my coffee and there
was a time where it wasn’t a foregone
conclusion that every coffee shop had
soy milk or almond milk or something so
I would always go into the mom-and-pop
that was across the street from
Starbucks always go to the mom-and-pop
and I’d say do you guys have any soy
milk and they go no but I like thank you
and I would walk
out those went out of business because I
went to Starbucks he’s right I went to
Starbucks now had Starbucks moved in and
they went across the street and said
let’s see what Starbucks has we should
offer soy milk maybe it’s time for us to
replace this ripped couch that we’ve had
for 15 years because it’s really nice
across there and it’s really gross here
it’s the ones who got angry and refused
to compete that went out of business I
think retail is the same everybody’s
pointing fingers instead of saying we’ve
had it really good for a bunch of years
and the question is now what is our
competitor revealing about our own
weaknesses that we can learn to improve
because that’s what competition does
competition reveals your weaknesses to
you and when you had no competition you
didn’t know where you were weak this is
the problem with being the best at
anything because you don’t know where
your your faults are and then somebody
undermines you because they can see your
faults before you can we’ll do one more
Facebook question and then we’ll do some
more in here and then we’ll probably
should wind down how do you do how do
you stay inspired when doing all the
parts of your work that are tedious and
not inspiring not creative sorry how do
you stay inspired when when you’re doing
all the parts of your work that are
tedious and not creative okay the answer
is do you know it’s like raising
don’t try and convince me otherwise have
you seen what your apartment looks like
have you seen what your house looks like
your definition of dinner is eating
macaroni and cheese over the sink with a
plastic spoon right if you have a
backseat of a car it’s destroyed
[Laughter]
you have kids that throw temper tantrums
and all you want to do is watch TV but
they don’t want to go to bed that’s your
life right you have to travel at
Christmas or summer the most expensive
and worse times to travel because
everybody’s on vacation because you have
kids you own a Honda Odyssey you know
did you have one the poster of one of
those on your wall when you’re a kid was
that your aspiration the Lamborghini in
the Honda Odyssey you’ve got one right
it’s freaking hard work and they’re
really annoying and then they have
problems and they’re sick and they get
bad grades and who knows what so why
would anybody have a child it’s for the
unpredictable glimmers when you catch
your five-year-old sharing with your
four-year-old
when you check to see that your kid is
sleeping you find them under the covers
with a flashlight reading the school
play the first girlfriend the first
boyfriend
it’s the unpredictable glimmers that
make all of the sacrifice worth it and
the same goes here creativity is not
something that you get to have every day
if you did you’d be jaded and it get
boring thank you you know you don’t get
that a living a creative life means that
you you accept the tedium and you accept
the the mundane as part of the process
of discovering the glimmers and when you
get those glimmers all the tedium
disappears it was all worth it you know
so there’s no such thing as a thrill a
day and when people seek it out they die
young you know it’s just not a
sustainable model asking for help helps
somewhat delegating helps somewhat
saying learning to say no to some things
helps somewhat but it’s it’s just it’s
part of the deal
relationships are the same relationships
are really hard but it’s the glimmers
when someone makes you feel like you’re
the most special person on earth when
someone makes you feel that you’re the
better version of yourself because
they’re in your life you know you don’t
get that every day you know and that
goes for friendships that goes for
really does anything like my III every
now and then I look at my I pull back
and I look at my own friendships and
it’s not a criticism of the people that
are in my life that I call friends it’s
a criticism of me which is I have people
my life that I can absolutely say with
absolute certainty that I’m a better
version of myself because they’re in my
life
and if I lost them I would lose a piece
of me
there’s without certainty without
without a doubt I mean with absolute
certainty and I also have people in my
life that if I look back at my
friendship
I really haven’t grown at all because
they’re in my life and I spend time with
them maybe because I don’t like being
alone and they were available or I spend
time with them because they’re funny and
I like him but if they disappeared would
I feel like a piece of me got lost
probably not and then I ask myself
because it’s not a criticism of them
it’s a criticism of me
I ask myself am i investing time and the
people that are helping me grow like
should I should I because if I never
called them they’d never call me I know
that too
you know so should I really have a few
nights alone in order to save up time
you know I don’t have an answer for it
but these are the things I think about
so yeah
we’ll do one more question one more one
more yes you’ve been waiting so
patiently and you’re from the right side
of the game the one question from the
right side of the room one question for
resident there’s a lot under shoulder
this better be a good question it’s the
only question from the right side of the
room and it’s the last question isn’t
this exciting isn’t this exciting just a
macro philosophical sense change is
happening so the question was in a world
of uncertainty how do we stay balanced
yeah
is that the question right I’ll give you
the same answer I’ve given 15 times
today
you better have someone in your life who
loves you now the harder question is how
do you have someone in your life who
okay that’s the harder question and
there’s an answer to that too
you better be open to loving someone all
right that’s all I got [Music]