got Nina just came home so she might be
walking on the background too okay
welcome everybody to another Google
hangout today I’ve got a special guest
with me mark Drager a friend of mine who
runs a video production company called
phantom media he’s been on before
welcome back mark thank you thank you
hello there so the reason why I have
mark on it’s like other question I get
questions from my readers all the time
and I got a question from one of my
YouTube viewers my pachi 19 who wrote in
this today what tips would you give for
starting the video production company I
really like doing it and would love to
learn more about it you think you can
make a video about the first steps on
starting a video production company it
would be awesome and I’ve reached out to
mark instead mark you know I can answer
this question but I thought we talked to
you because you’ve started a video
production company and I know you have a
passion for entrepreneurs so mark how
would you answer that question where the
first steps how do you get started in a
video production business well I think I
think the first thing to recognize is
that you can have a different type of
business depending on what you want to
do so I think you need to decide whether
you want to be like a freelancer someone
who has who goes out and and does the
work on a day to day basis for other
companies or or maybe picking up small
jobs or whether you want to build maybe
kind of what’s call a medium-sized
business where you do most of the work
yourself you’re out there selling it and
you’re delivering it and maybe you hire
some freelancers to help you or whether
you want to build a big business or a
larger firm where you essentially hire
other people to do many other components
and you just do the kind of one thing
you’re passionate about so if you’re
really loved editing you hire people to
do everything else and you do the
editing if you love the creativity of
production you do that if you love the
business management you do that so I
think the place to start is deciding
what type of company it is you want to
build so how did you figure that out for
for France immediately Rob well so I
started the firm close to eight years
ago and I started as the single person
so I started as the guy who had the
camera and the lights and I did the
editing and I did selling and I did
everything but but I started it knowing
that I wanted to build a bigger company
so I wanted to build the company where I
could hire people who were quite a bit
better than myself to do each of their
specific roles and that I could build a
larger firm because because ultimately
while I was pretty good at at some stuff
I was also I was also not great at other
things and so I kind of recognized that
I wanted to do something better than I
could just do alone
and and to do that I needed to bring in
people who could help me what was the
first thing you wanted to give up gosh I
wanted to give up sales selling selling
can be hard when you’re starting and you
don’t know what to say or what to do and
and ultimately like the first the first
big I tried a whole bunch of things I
tried to hire editors and they wouldn’t
edit as well as I wanted I tried to hire
and camera people and they just no one
everyone did it their way and I wanted
them to do it my way and I have certain
standards and so I found ultimately the
first thing to do was to actually bring
in a sales person but it wasn’t to bring
in a sales person so I didn’t have to
sell it was to help us earn the right
amount of money to be able to go out and
hire technical people because without
the revenue of the extra sales I didn’t
have I couldn’t hire the the delivery
people and so we started by building
sales but it was really only so that way
I could I could first stop editing and
then I handed over production and I
don’t do any production anymore and now
I’m at the point where all I handle is
strategy and creative so I act kind of
as a creative director I handle the
strategy and the creative and then I
turn it over to my team there’s 11 of us
in the company and ultimately I I don’t
I go out on set to talk to clients but I
don’t do production anymore
I don’t do editing anymore I’ve hired
people who are quite a bit better at it
than I am so they’re cool man so this
question is really about the early
stages right he’s asked what are the
first steps on starting the company so
how did you go from having a job working
for the man they were what was that
transition what were your first steps
yeah so I would I would say that and the
question is that that that clearly I
think the person you wrote
it has a passion for video and so if you
have a passion for video whether you’re
whether you’re formally trained or not
um I think I think you need three things
if you’re going to survive and where
there’s going to be a big company or a
little company or whatever you need
three things you’re going to survive you
need to have the technical capabilities
so either you’re going to do the work or
you’re going to hire people who can and
you’re gonna and you’re going to have to
be able to sell and selling isn’t just
about about like going out there talking
to people there’s there’s there’s going
out there and and establishing
relationships and helping people with
whatever going to do if it’s if it’s
wedding videos it’s talking to the
brides and networking with grooms if
it’s a corporate video then you’re gonna
have to be able to connect with
businesses who need your services if
it’s advertising or if it’s social media
or or whatever it may be you need the
technical skills but you also need the
relationships and then the last thing
that people kind of forget about is is
kind of the analysis it’s coming up with
the plan it’s actually what I do now
every day which is I have sales people I
have people who deliver and I just help
them come up with whatever that plan is
to help deliver so when you’re starting
out and you’re starting off you’re
probably not going to be good at
everything so so if you’re lacking in
the tech in the technical get better at
it because you might be a great people
person and that’s that’s a great place
to start you may be fantastic
technically but if you’re not so good at
the people side I would suggest
partnering strategic partnerships if you
if you if you wanted to start a video
company for weddings find a photographer
right you can easily meld into their
business and then you’re going to be
maybe you’ll take lower fees but you’re
going to get the ball rolling your
inability portfolio if your corporate
then connect connect with another
company or like an ad agency or any kind
of partner like that because you’re
going to be really strong technically
and you’d be surprised I mean it is
really hard to find good strong
technical video people out there I mean
there are companies who there are PR
companies for example who have all these
clients who have video needs and they
just can’t find something that clicks
into their system for pay and whatnot so
there’s all kinds of partnerships so
either you’re going to have to get
stronger technique
or get stronger on building
relationships but that’s that’s where
you start did you start with any of that
partnerships alliances that help you get
some customers totally totally and it
bit me eventually I started so I started
a bit of a unique situation because I
worked for a franchise company and I
actually left the franchise company and
I took all the equipment and I actually
took their business so I approached the
company and said ok I’m doing this for
you and you’re spending all this money
on my salary and everything else but you
don’t really need me as much as you
think you do so if I leave you could
outsource the work to me and I could
help do this for other companies for
other clients so I already left and
started the business with my first time
under my belt but I spent my first two
years figuring everything out and
selling to just friends invent like
friends and family meaning not like
family but business people people who
friends of friends and referrals and
people I used to work with and I was
just I was just growing my portfolio and
working off them and it’s fantastic
where where I didn’t realize what
happened is with video once you’ve done
it people don’t need you for a little
bit you know you’ve done the video
you’ve spent all the budget they don’t
need you until next year or maybe two
years from now and so we’re a bit me was
I spent a year and a half to two years
leveraging um kind of all my connections
and then I hit a point where no one no
one needed anything they like I had done
it all and I didn’t I wasn’t I wasn’t
meeting new people so a very very good
place to start
everyone you know is great but recognize
the fact that you are going to kind of
use up those connections and so you
wanna you wanna and then they came back
two or three years later because they
did love our services but there is just
there’s just a cycle that you got to
keep filling so that’s that’s how I got
started it was a bit unique um the
question coming in from Jose who’s
wondering who was your first client
outside of your network you there
oh you froze on me oh I closed on you
you froze on me too good ok so the
question from Jose was who was your
first client outside of your network so
I guess after you’ve expanded your your
friends and family who is your first
client ah jeez I’m trying to think you
stumped
mark yeah that’s a good question because
our longest term client here in Canada
is RBC which is Canada’s largest bank
but they came they were referred to us
four months after we started and were
still working with them today and we’ve
grown we’ve grown them in and they’re
fantastic client of ours but they came
to us through through a friend so I’m
trying to think of the first completely
cold project where someone found us um
it it was it was probably like three
years into it it was probably I I
couldn’t even say who it was but it
would have been after I hired Daniel or
first sales guy a director of business
development and when he came in and
because everything was always through
referrals and that’s a great point there
to like it that it took three years to
get the first cold Klein in that you
built everything up through that
referral strategy what what did you do
to get referral so I guess you you
started with your friends and family and
you realize okay after X amount of time
they don’t need you anymore how did you
then encourage them to talk about you to
build your business up because it it’s
grown just the referrals how did you get
that to happen so the first thing is is
understanding what it is they like it’s
the basic business what it is you
actually do what problem you solve a lot
of people who create videos are a
technical think that they deliver video
but they don’t the video is is either
going to be a marketing tool or
communications tool or it’s a way of
communicating something so you have to
first recognize what it is you’re
selling and do that really well so so so
for us you know our take on it is
especially started so we did a lot of
internal communications we knew we
weren’t going to get a big national bank
to give us their national broadcast
campaign but what we
could do is help them communicate to
their staff better or their team better
and so we are very communications
focused at first and so to answer your
question doing recognizing what you do
and doing it the best you possibly can
and it’s okay to be really nice about it
you know I saw I saw another video you
did about photography and bowling and
you said you know be the best be the
best photographer for the world of
bowling and that’s exactly it
we we decided that we wanted to be the
company to come to if you had to
communicate your staff and that worked
that worked to a point so that’s the
first thing the the next thing is um is
maintaining maintaining relationships uh
you know when I came to work to start I
didn’t have work to do every day but
because I wanted to because I wasn’t a
freelancer with a freelancer mindset in
my mind I wanted a business I went to
work every day whether I had something
to do or not uh and I didn’t I didn’t
fool around it’s just like I have to go
to work because I have a job because I’m
building a company and and so I think I
think you need to come to work every day
if that’s the business you wanna you
want to build and again I’m terrible for
this because this happened last time to
you I don’t know if I’m answering your
question at all or not Evan well we’re
talking over pearls like how did you
encourage referrals once you’ve built
beyond your existing kind of friends and
family pool so it’s great that so you
know what you stand for and it’s easy
people to talk about you how else did
you build referrals that you asked
people did you stay in touch because if
video is not something they need all the
time so how did you get the referrals
going in especially those first couple
years so I was okay I realized I was
answering your question which is cool
the first thing is do really good work
because people won’t refer you if you do
terrible work right so do it do what you
do really well so that’s the first thing
the second thing is um is is I hired a
business coach to kind of help me
because I was really lost but and and
they pointed out something I never
realized they said you know you’re kind
of a likable guy and they said you know
you’re sincere so I came at business
sincerely I was really modest and so
when you do good work and you really
want to help your clients um and you’re
sincere and you’re modest
I would take people out for lunch and
I’d say I’m you know I started the
business I was 23 my wife was at home
with with we had a new child really my
oldest daughter was was a newborn we had
no source of income I quit my job she
didn’t have any income so I wanted to do
good work I wanted to help my clients
I’d take them out for lunch and say
listen I’m a young company I’m just
starting up I’m really hungry for work I
want to help you is there is there
anyone at all that that you think we
could help would like sincerely we just
want to help and if not that’s fine I
don’t it’s not it’s not I’m not in a
charity case or anything I wanna I want
to work but but I want to do good work
for you and for other people and is
there any way you can help me and you
know what
people were really receptive to it and
so I you know the first client RBC I
took them out for lunch
um and I said it was great working with
you I want to do this for other people
is there anything you do to help me and
think about it for yourself if anyone
came to you with that you would you’d be
open to helping them out if they were
sincere about it so that’s I mean be you
know being yourself doing good work
connecting with people that you have
shared similarities with that’s I mean
people I think people don’t realize that
that is that’s what sales has become
today it’s just being authentic and
being yourself and trying to help people
it’s not it’s not pounding the phone
it’s not I tried cold calling doesn’t
thing didn’t work for me I tried
networking in that working events never
paid off I tried breakfast networking
type things and I made great friends but
it never led to any business and so just
recognize that we’re in a bit of a tough
industry to to crack into so to do
really good work be sincere and just
just ask ask for the business so so the
question what were the steps and as
you’ve been talking I’m kind of taking
notes here and I put together a
five-step mark your process I love I
love how you’re able to just like I
ramble and ramble and ramble and you’re
like okay so here the five steps this is
what working this is this is what I
wrote down and let me know if this works
because I really want to help this
person out so number one was start with
a client you know you you had a job and
you turned that client that job into
your first client so you’re not just
starting
off with nothing you’re starting off
with your client number two was tapped
your network and you reached out to
everybody in your network who you knew
when introduce yourself so here I’m
starting this new business number three
was know what your expertise is so you
know your specific focus on
communications instead of other things
that people could clearly understand
what you did and could talk about you
easily number four I wrote was do great
work so blow people away you know have
them be so excited by the extraordinary
work you’re putting that extraordinary
that that they want to talk about it and
they’re left with the positive feeling
and then number five was stay top of
mind and take people out to lunch and
ask for referrals and be genuine so that
they can think of other people to send
you in your business I I think those are
the five steps and they’re perfect I
will say don’t fall into one trap anyone
who’s starting and and I think you’ve
talked about this a lot Evan yeah don’t
go out and spend a lot of money on
equipment please please do not do that
when I started the company I had a four
year old computer that wouldn’t even I
mean this is they wouldn’t even do HD
back then it was like standard
definition I had a camera that was four
or five years out of date when actually
Roland has been with me for years
started with the company we were still
shooting on technology that was ten
years old and and he would say he didn’t
even know how to it was so old but he
wasn’t even sure how to use the cameras
and we know he forgot how to use the
cameras and everyone in the industry
laughed at me but we did like 2.5
million dollars worth of work on old
technology because because people don’t
care whether you’re working with the
best or not they care what you do with
it and so don’t go out and put yourself
into a ton I started my coming for
$7,000
that was my total startup cost hmm what
did you spend what was that 7k on so I
went to a lawyer and did obviously
illegal I set up I set up a corporation
so there was that I set a payroll I
bought a printer said anything printer
and a scanner I had to I actually leased
back the equipment off of off of the
company that I was working on I took
in exchange for free work for them
because they already had the gear and
they didn’t need it and so we did kind
of this trade for work to be honest I
can’t even remember but I remember it
seemed like a lot of money at the time
uh and you know what I lost a lot of
money in the first six months I they get
one point is like thirty thousand
dollars in debt but that was just
covering offices I mean I went out and
got an office and you know if I did it
again I wouldn’t have done that spending
fifteen hundred dollars a month on an
unprofessional offices that I wouldn’t
do again but you know you can’t go back
and learn that lesson again but um yeah
website and marketing fees and all of
those kind of stuff I kind of bucket it
into the first startup and doing free
work and all of those things but but
just don’t just just if you have any
camera get your first project and shoot
that on anything you know you’re gonna
feel embarrassed you say you know you’re
gonna apologize to Glenn oh I don’t have
to they don’t they don’t know they don’t
know anything so go out there shoot it
make it look the best you can use a
little bit of that money that you have
put it away or live off of it but but I
we were operating for four years before
we did our first equipment upgrade it
was just it was silly it was it was
there’s almost asinine but I just didn’t
want to spend the money on it
hmm so you know it’s interesting that
you would go out and spend the money to
hire business coach to help you but not
spend the money on the equipment yeah I
spent I spent a lot of money on a lot
actually not maybe not at the time but
spending like seven or eight hundred
dollars a month on a business coach when
I had no money
uh yeah that’s weird isn’t it but but I
I didn’t know how to start a business I
knew how to create I knew that I could I
knew that I could make good videos with
crap equipment I didn’t know how to
start a business interesting and you
were so you’re invested in yourself and
your knowledge and how to become a
better entrepreneur it’s interesting
it’s good I like it
oh I just saw a light bulb go off
there’s there’s another there’s another
video in that alone really there might
be there might be um something else you
said you said when you first started you
go out to the office and and you didn’t
have work to do and you know you said
okay I’m committed to this this is my
business I’m going to treat it like a
job I’m going to go into the office you
know to have work to do so my two
thoughts are is well so what did you do
when you
got there um and to look how did you
stay motivated through that when you’re
you know you realize that I got nothing
to do right now yeah I remember so I
launched my business January 2nd 2007
and I already had the office least I
moved up all the equipment in that
morning and and I set up my desk I set
up my phone cuz I had a proper phone was
all excited I set my voicemail
I was I was super pumped and then I
remember it was like quarter to 11:00 in
the morning and I had nothing to do and
I developed a business plan I had a
marketing strategy I like I had all
these things developed i sat there and I
remember I called my mother actually
because she is she’s run businesses and
she’s helped me along the way and I said
I just realized I have nothing did like
I don’t know what to do now I’ve set up
my I have no idea
so one how did I stay motivated if you
recall we connected sometime in like
June so as I was only five or six months
into my business when we met and you and
your mastermind group was a huge asset
so I would suggest peer mentorship you
know connect with other business owners
in other industries people call me up
directly and we kind of have you know if
they’re if they’re out of our region or
not really our competition so we have
conversations about it but but um you
know it can be hard it can be hard to
stay motivated look at other people’s
work and say one day I will be doing
that because because you just maybe you
can’t today you know I often say that if
I if I look at the business I built when
I started it I never believed that I
could actually do it and I know that
goes against everything even with your
belief I just I wouldn’t have thought
that I could do it there you go
uh and you know when I look at a
business that’s twenty or thirty times
larger than us I I believe we can get
there but not so it’s different now now
I believe we can be thirty times bigger
I don’t know how to get there yet but
that’s a very different thing when I
started I just didn’t believe that I
could do it so come into work every day
what did I do
we did we did like landing page designs
so in 2007 the biggest thing was that
PPC pay-per-click for Google had to have
a different landing page and so we went
out and found agencies where we could
design simple landing pages and they
would pay us whatever was $60 a page and
we would just do hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of pages and it wasn’t even
in our business but it was like we
needed money
money to stay going and so I would come
in and do that I would I would think of
people to email I would go on LinkedIn I
would create our own marketing examples
for ourselves I I would try and think of
workshops that I could give and you know
today the we weren’t really blogging
back then even but today I would today I
would I would just decide to become who
I want to be
I would I would start a persona I would
create videos like you do because your
video company why not I would uh I would
blog about it I would connect with
people I would just out I mean I would
just go out there and do it fake it to
you make it right and the way was was
you right yeah sorry I always say weeks
I was gonna start the firm with a
partner and things fell apart beforehand
and I also be wanting to be a big
company I always talk in the in the we
because now we have many people but back
then it was just me and I didn’t want
anyone to know it was just me because I
felt if I was charging you know if I
surging a thousand dollars for my time
for the day I had I didn’t believe I
thought that if people knew I was doing
all the work that they wouldn’t they
just wouldn’t value to pay me what I
thought I was worth and so I always said
we this we that we’ll get back to you
and I just
people call me on that now but but I
always say we we we it was just me I was
me in a two hundred square foot office
with fluorescent lighting it was
terrible
I’m curious as to so when you started
your business he said you never thought
you would get to where you are now but
now you can see how you can get to 30
times bigger no you don’t know the step
so I’m wondering that what caused that
change in self-confidence and in belief
that was there a moment that you felt
like now now it’s on now it’s working or
have just been a slow progression
because now you’re very confident were
at the start you weren’t so I’m
wondering what caused that difference uh
I trust the people I’ve surrounded
myself with and so you know you’re you
and I have conversations too you know
you’re you’re pushing me in your heart
are me I have a business coach that
helps me with operations that I that I
trust in I’ve hired staff and surrounded
myself from people who are just
so good at their job and and so I I just
I I what I’ve learned is it will take
way more time than I ever think it will
everything takes so much time
you know it’s just I’ve been at this
eight years and and I thought I would be
where we were four years ago but really
we’ve seen most of our growth just in
our last four years and so and so the
confidence comes from people you know
our clients being really receptive to
what we’re doing us you know increasing
sales us delivering always pushing
deliver better work building our
portfolio and and just Saran today build
a business where I could do what I loved
and didn’t have to do everything
and so surrounding myself with people
who literally they surprised me it
surprised me every single day with with
what we’re doing and I’m so pride I
don’t even feel you know I’m so proud of
what we do as a company and I’m amazed
with what the guys do so if I can feel
that delight like a client will that’s
that excites me and so that I have
confidence that I will always be able to
surround myself with people who are
really smart and I will always be able
to figure out a way to to sell or
communicate what it is we do because
because as long as people as long as
businesses need help with communications
of some sort marketing sales issues
whatever whatever it is and video is a
way to communicate I know we’ll be here
and a video isn’t a way to communicate
then we’ll find that that new channel to
communicate and still apply everything
we’ve learned
I love it man I love it ah one last
question coming in from Hector who’s
asking if you could go back and tell
yourself when you were starting one
thing what would it be um oh jeez I mean
we it’s funny we talked about startup we
talked about now there’s this whole
recession that just clobbered us like we
blew through all our cash I laid off the
small staff I had I I literally we had
no money
I personally didn’t pay myself for six
months I went into debt I went into debt
to hire the sales guy and I and I paid
him a salary and I didn’t pay myself for
six months so like there was the startup
time that was hard there was the last
four years we’ve seen a lot of growth
but there was a there’s this really
terrible middle year uh in in 2009 where
where it was really really hard and so
if I went back to start up I think I
would probably I think I would probably
scare myself out of doing it or keeping
going so the only thing I could say is
like I could pull the line it gets
better right it gets it you know
I heard someone once say that your
career is like a giant lineup and if as
long as you stay in line and work hard
your time will come
but if you get out of line and you
decide to get back into line you have to
start at the back again and so I think
about that because you know what the
guys who I really look up to who are
doing great work they’ve all been doing
this for 25 or 30 years and I’m on year
I’m on year 8 in my business so if I
jump from thing to thing to thing to
thing to thing rather than take what I
have and massage it and grow it and
change and change it changes with me
then I’m getting out of line and I’m
throwing myself and I gotta start all
over again I want to stay in line and so
if I went back and told myself I would
just I don’t know I would just do the
typical you know like stick with it it’s
you know it’s gonna get it’s gonna get
better
the truth is it’s really really hard and
I think most entrepreneurs are a little
bit we’re not we’re not risk takers were
foolish right we foolishly believe that
we can do it better than everyone else
and we’ll keep working at it until it is
better than everyone else
um and so uh yeah I don’t know I
wouldn’t I probably wouldn’t tell myself
very much
all right well on that note mark thanks
man thanks to the time for people
watching working and learn more about
you so they can check us out at Fanta
Mediacom for our corporate stuff I also
put in I put a link there to an Adobe
session we did last April now that’s
more for people who already have a video
company who want to kind of grow it to
bigger it’s a it’s a one-hour session we
did with Adobe talking about how to grow
a business to be maybe a bit more
successful and what to focus on so you
can certainly check that out or our blog
which is blog.bufferapp.com
believe believe you got it man okay
thanks for watch back you see chief
walking on the background too okay
welcome everybody to another Google
hangout today I’ve got a special guest
with me mark Drager a friend of mine who
runs a video production company called
phantom media he’s been on before
welcome back mark thank you thank you
hello there so the reason why I have
mark on it’s like other question I get
questions from my readers all the time
and I got a question from one of my
YouTube viewers my pachi 19 who wrote in
this today what tips would you give for
starting the video production company I
really like doing it and would love to
learn more about it you think you can
make a video about the first steps on
starting a video production company it
would be awesome and I’ve reached out to
mark instead mark you know I can answer
this question but I thought we talked to
you because you’ve started a video
production company and I know you have a
passion for entrepreneurs so mark how
would you answer that question where the
first steps how do you get started in a
video production business well I think I
think the first thing to recognize is
that you can have a different type of
business depending on what you want to
do so I think you need to decide whether
you want to be like a freelancer someone
who has who goes out and and does the
work on a day to day basis for other
companies or or maybe picking up small
jobs or whether you want to build maybe
kind of what’s call a medium-sized
business where you do most of the work
yourself you’re out there selling it and
you’re delivering it and maybe you hire
some freelancers to help you or whether
you want to build a big business or a
larger firm where you essentially hire
other people to do many other components
and you just do the kind of one thing
you’re passionate about so if you’re
really loved editing you hire people to
do everything else and you do the
editing if you love the creativity of
production you do that if you love the
business management you do that so I
think the place to start is deciding
what type of company it is you want to
build so how did you figure that out for
for France immediately Rob well so I
started the firm close to eight years
ago and I started as the single person
so I started as the guy who had the
camera and the lights and I did the
editing and I did selling and I did
everything but but I started it knowing
that I wanted to build a bigger company
so I wanted to build the company where I
could hire people who were quite a bit
better than myself to do each of their
specific roles and that I could build a
larger firm because because ultimately
while I was pretty good at at some stuff
I was also I was also not great at other
things and so I kind of recognized that
I wanted to do something better than I
could just do alone
and and to do that I needed to bring in
people who could help me what was the
first thing you wanted to give up gosh I
wanted to give up sales selling selling
can be hard when you’re starting and you
don’t know what to say or what to do and
and ultimately like the first the first
big I tried a whole bunch of things I
tried to hire editors and they wouldn’t
edit as well as I wanted I tried to hire
and camera people and they just no one
everyone did it their way and I wanted
them to do it my way and I have certain
standards and so I found ultimately the
first thing to do was to actually bring
in a sales person but it wasn’t to bring
in a sales person so I didn’t have to
sell it was to help us earn the right
amount of money to be able to go out and
hire technical people because without
the revenue of the extra sales I didn’t
have I couldn’t hire the the delivery
people and so we started by building
sales but it was really only so that way
I could I could first stop editing and
then I handed over production and I
don’t do any production anymore and now
I’m at the point where all I handle is
strategy and creative so I act kind of
as a creative director I handle the
strategy and the creative and then I
turn it over to my team there’s 11 of us
in the company and ultimately I I don’t
I go out on set to talk to clients but I
don’t do production anymore
I don’t do editing anymore I’ve hired
people who are quite a bit better at it
than I am so they’re cool man so this
question is really about the early
stages right he’s asked what are the
first steps on starting the company so
how did you go from having a job working
for the man they were what was that
transition what were your first steps
yeah so I would I would say that and the
question is that that that clearly I
think the person you wrote
it has a passion for video and so if you
have a passion for video whether you’re
whether you’re formally trained or not
um I think I think you need three things
if you’re going to survive and where
there’s going to be a big company or a
little company or whatever you need
three things you’re going to survive you
need to have the technical capabilities
so either you’re going to do the work or
you’re going to hire people who can and
you’re gonna and you’re going to have to
be able to sell and selling isn’t just
about about like going out there talking
to people there’s there’s there’s going
out there and and establishing
relationships and helping people with
whatever going to do if it’s if it’s
wedding videos it’s talking to the
brides and networking with grooms if
it’s a corporate video then you’re gonna
have to be able to connect with
businesses who need your services if
it’s advertising or if it’s social media
or or whatever it may be you need the
technical skills but you also need the
relationships and then the last thing
that people kind of forget about is is
kind of the analysis it’s coming up with
the plan it’s actually what I do now
every day which is I have sales people I
have people who deliver and I just help
them come up with whatever that plan is
to help deliver so when you’re starting
out and you’re starting off you’re
probably not going to be good at
everything so so if you’re lacking in
the tech in the technical get better at
it because you might be a great people
person and that’s that’s a great place
to start you may be fantastic
technically but if you’re not so good at
the people side I would suggest
partnering strategic partnerships if you
if you if you wanted to start a video
company for weddings find a photographer
right you can easily meld into their
business and then you’re going to be
maybe you’ll take lower fees but you’re
going to get the ball rolling your
inability portfolio if your corporate
then connect connect with another
company or like an ad agency or any kind
of partner like that because you’re
going to be really strong technically
and you’d be surprised I mean it is
really hard to find good strong
technical video people out there I mean
there are companies who there are PR
companies for example who have all these
clients who have video needs and they
just can’t find something that clicks
into their system for pay and whatnot so
there’s all kinds of partnerships so
either you’re going to have to get
stronger technique
or get stronger on building
relationships but that’s that’s where
you start did you start with any of that
partnerships alliances that help you get
some customers totally totally and it
bit me eventually I started so I started
a bit of a unique situation because I
worked for a franchise company and I
actually left the franchise company and
I took all the equipment and I actually
took their business so I approached the
company and said ok I’m doing this for
you and you’re spending all this money
on my salary and everything else but you
don’t really need me as much as you
think you do so if I leave you could
outsource the work to me and I could
help do this for other companies for
other clients so I already left and
started the business with my first time
under my belt but I spent my first two
years figuring everything out and
selling to just friends invent like
friends and family meaning not like
family but business people people who
friends of friends and referrals and
people I used to work with and I was
just I was just growing my portfolio and
working off them and it’s fantastic
where where I didn’t realize what
happened is with video once you’ve done
it people don’t need you for a little
bit you know you’ve done the video
you’ve spent all the budget they don’t
need you until next year or maybe two
years from now and so we’re a bit me was
I spent a year and a half to two years
leveraging um kind of all my connections
and then I hit a point where no one no
one needed anything they like I had done
it all and I didn’t I wasn’t I wasn’t
meeting new people so a very very good
place to start
everyone you know is great but recognize
the fact that you are going to kind of
use up those connections and so you
wanna you wanna and then they came back
two or three years later because they
did love our services but there is just
there’s just a cycle that you got to
keep filling so that’s that’s how I got
started it was a bit unique um the
question coming in from Jose who’s
wondering who was your first client
outside of your network you there
oh you froze on me oh I closed on you
you froze on me too good ok so the
question from Jose was who was your
first client outside of your network so
I guess after you’ve expanded your your
friends and family who is your first
client ah jeez I’m trying to think you
stumped
mark yeah that’s a good question because
our longest term client here in Canada
is RBC which is Canada’s largest bank
but they came they were referred to us
four months after we started and were
still working with them today and we’ve
grown we’ve grown them in and they’re
fantastic client of ours but they came
to us through through a friend so I’m
trying to think of the first completely
cold project where someone found us um
it it was it was probably like three
years into it it was probably I I
couldn’t even say who it was but it
would have been after I hired Daniel or
first sales guy a director of business
development and when he came in and
because everything was always through
referrals and that’s a great point there
to like it that it took three years to
get the first cold Klein in that you
built everything up through that
referral strategy what what did you do
to get referral so I guess you you
started with your friends and family and
you realize okay after X amount of time
they don’t need you anymore how did you
then encourage them to talk about you to
build your business up because it it’s
grown just the referrals how did you get
that to happen so the first thing is is
understanding what it is they like it’s
the basic business what it is you
actually do what problem you solve a lot
of people who create videos are a
technical think that they deliver video
but they don’t the video is is either
going to be a marketing tool or
communications tool or it’s a way of
communicating something so you have to
first recognize what it is you’re
selling and do that really well so so so
for us you know our take on it is
especially started so we did a lot of
internal communications we knew we
weren’t going to get a big national bank
to give us their national broadcast
campaign but what we
could do is help them communicate to
their staff better or their team better
and so we are very communications
focused at first and so to answer your
question doing recognizing what you do
and doing it the best you possibly can
and it’s okay to be really nice about it
you know I saw I saw another video you
did about photography and bowling and
you said you know be the best be the
best photographer for the world of
bowling and that’s exactly it
we we decided that we wanted to be the
company to come to if you had to
communicate your staff and that worked
that worked to a point so that’s the
first thing the the next thing is um is
maintaining maintaining relationships uh
you know when I came to work to start I
didn’t have work to do every day but
because I wanted to because I wasn’t a
freelancer with a freelancer mindset in
my mind I wanted a business I went to
work every day whether I had something
to do or not uh and I didn’t I didn’t
fool around it’s just like I have to go
to work because I have a job because I’m
building a company and and so I think I
think you need to come to work every day
if that’s the business you wanna you
want to build and again I’m terrible for
this because this happened last time to
you I don’t know if I’m answering your
question at all or not Evan well we’re
talking over pearls like how did you
encourage referrals once you’ve built
beyond your existing kind of friends and
family pool so it’s great that so you
know what you stand for and it’s easy
people to talk about you how else did
you build referrals that you asked
people did you stay in touch because if
video is not something they need all the
time so how did you get the referrals
going in especially those first couple
years so I was okay I realized I was
answering your question which is cool
the first thing is do really good work
because people won’t refer you if you do
terrible work right so do it do what you
do really well so that’s the first thing
the second thing is um is is I hired a
business coach to kind of help me
because I was really lost but and and
they pointed out something I never
realized they said you know you’re kind
of a likable guy and they said you know
you’re sincere so I came at business
sincerely I was really modest and so
when you do good work and you really
want to help your clients um and you’re
sincere and you’re modest
I would take people out for lunch and
I’d say I’m you know I started the
business I was 23 my wife was at home
with with we had a new child really my
oldest daughter was was a newborn we had
no source of income I quit my job she
didn’t have any income so I wanted to do
good work I wanted to help my clients
I’d take them out for lunch and say
listen I’m a young company I’m just
starting up I’m really hungry for work I
want to help you is there is there
anyone at all that that you think we
could help would like sincerely we just
want to help and if not that’s fine I
don’t it’s not it’s not I’m not in a
charity case or anything I wanna I want
to work but but I want to do good work
for you and for other people and is
there any way you can help me and you
know what
people were really receptive to it and
so I you know the first client RBC I
took them out for lunch
um and I said it was great working with
you I want to do this for other people
is there anything you do to help me and
think about it for yourself if anyone
came to you with that you would you’d be
open to helping them out if they were
sincere about it so that’s I mean be you
know being yourself doing good work
connecting with people that you have
shared similarities with that’s I mean
people I think people don’t realize that
that is that’s what sales has become
today it’s just being authentic and
being yourself and trying to help people
it’s not it’s not pounding the phone
it’s not I tried cold calling doesn’t
thing didn’t work for me I tried
networking in that working events never
paid off I tried breakfast networking
type things and I made great friends but
it never led to any business and so just
recognize that we’re in a bit of a tough
industry to to crack into so to do
really good work be sincere and just
just ask ask for the business so so the
question what were the steps and as
you’ve been talking I’m kind of taking
notes here and I put together a
five-step mark your process I love I
love how you’re able to just like I
ramble and ramble and ramble and you’re
like okay so here the five steps this is
what working this is this is what I
wrote down and let me know if this works
because I really want to help this
person out so number one was start with
a client you know you you had a job and
you turned that client that job into
your first client so you’re not just
starting
off with nothing you’re starting off
with your client number two was tapped
your network and you reached out to
everybody in your network who you knew
when introduce yourself so here I’m
starting this new business number three
was know what your expertise is so you
know your specific focus on
communications instead of other things
that people could clearly understand
what you did and could talk about you
easily number four I wrote was do great
work so blow people away you know have
them be so excited by the extraordinary
work you’re putting that extraordinary
that that they want to talk about it and
they’re left with the positive feeling
and then number five was stay top of
mind and take people out to lunch and
ask for referrals and be genuine so that
they can think of other people to send
you in your business I I think those are
the five steps and they’re perfect I
will say don’t fall into one trap anyone
who’s starting and and I think you’ve
talked about this a lot Evan yeah don’t
go out and spend a lot of money on
equipment please please do not do that
when I started the company I had a four
year old computer that wouldn’t even I
mean this is they wouldn’t even do HD
back then it was like standard
definition I had a camera that was four
or five years out of date when actually
Roland has been with me for years
started with the company we were still
shooting on technology that was ten
years old and and he would say he didn’t
even know how to it was so old but he
wasn’t even sure how to use the cameras
and we know he forgot how to use the
cameras and everyone in the industry
laughed at me but we did like 2.5
million dollars worth of work on old
technology because because people don’t
care whether you’re working with the
best or not they care what you do with
it and so don’t go out and put yourself
into a ton I started my coming for
$7,000
that was my total startup cost hmm what
did you spend what was that 7k on so I
went to a lawyer and did obviously
illegal I set up I set up a corporation
so there was that I set a payroll I
bought a printer said anything printer
and a scanner I had to I actually leased
back the equipment off of off of the
company that I was working on I took
in exchange for free work for them
because they already had the gear and
they didn’t need it and so we did kind
of this trade for work to be honest I
can’t even remember but I remember it
seemed like a lot of money at the time
uh and you know what I lost a lot of
money in the first six months I they get
one point is like thirty thousand
dollars in debt but that was just
covering offices I mean I went out and
got an office and you know if I did it
again I wouldn’t have done that spending
fifteen hundred dollars a month on an
unprofessional offices that I wouldn’t
do again but you know you can’t go back
and learn that lesson again but um yeah
website and marketing fees and all of
those kind of stuff I kind of bucket it
into the first startup and doing free
work and all of those things but but
just don’t just just if you have any
camera get your first project and shoot
that on anything you know you’re gonna
feel embarrassed you say you know you’re
gonna apologize to Glenn oh I don’t have
to they don’t they don’t know they don’t
know anything so go out there shoot it
make it look the best you can use a
little bit of that money that you have
put it away or live off of it but but I
we were operating for four years before
we did our first equipment upgrade it
was just it was silly it was it was
there’s almost asinine but I just didn’t
want to spend the money on it
hmm so you know it’s interesting that
you would go out and spend the money to
hire business coach to help you but not
spend the money on the equipment yeah I
spent I spent a lot of money on a lot
actually not maybe not at the time but
spending like seven or eight hundred
dollars a month on a business coach when
I had no money
uh yeah that’s weird isn’t it but but I
I didn’t know how to start a business I
knew how to create I knew that I could I
knew that I could make good videos with
crap equipment I didn’t know how to
start a business interesting and you
were so you’re invested in yourself and
your knowledge and how to become a
better entrepreneur it’s interesting
it’s good I like it
oh I just saw a light bulb go off
there’s there’s another there’s another
video in that alone really there might
be there might be um something else you
said you said when you first started you
go out to the office and and you didn’t
have work to do and you know you said
okay I’m committed to this this is my
business I’m going to treat it like a
job I’m going to go into the office you
know to have work to do so my two
thoughts are is well so what did you do
when you
got there um and to look how did you
stay motivated through that when you’re
you know you realize that I got nothing
to do right now yeah I remember so I
launched my business January 2nd 2007
and I already had the office least I
moved up all the equipment in that
morning and and I set up my desk I set
up my phone cuz I had a proper phone was
all excited I set my voicemail
I was I was super pumped and then I
remember it was like quarter to 11:00 in
the morning and I had nothing to do and
I developed a business plan I had a
marketing strategy I like I had all
these things developed i sat there and I
remember I called my mother actually
because she is she’s run businesses and
she’s helped me along the way and I said
I just realized I have nothing did like
I don’t know what to do now I’ve set up
my I have no idea
so one how did I stay motivated if you
recall we connected sometime in like
June so as I was only five or six months
into my business when we met and you and
your mastermind group was a huge asset
so I would suggest peer mentorship you
know connect with other business owners
in other industries people call me up
directly and we kind of have you know if
they’re if they’re out of our region or
not really our competition so we have
conversations about it but but um you
know it can be hard it can be hard to
stay motivated look at other people’s
work and say one day I will be doing
that because because you just maybe you
can’t today you know I often say that if
I if I look at the business I built when
I started it I never believed that I
could actually do it and I know that
goes against everything even with your
belief I just I wouldn’t have thought
that I could do it there you go
uh and you know when I look at a
business that’s twenty or thirty times
larger than us I I believe we can get
there but not so it’s different now now
I believe we can be thirty times bigger
I don’t know how to get there yet but
that’s a very different thing when I
started I just didn’t believe that I
could do it so come into work every day
what did I do
we did we did like landing page designs
so in 2007 the biggest thing was that
PPC pay-per-click for Google had to have
a different landing page and so we went
out and found agencies where we could
design simple landing pages and they
would pay us whatever was $60 a page and
we would just do hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of pages and it wasn’t even
in our business but it was like we
needed money
money to stay going and so I would come
in and do that I would I would think of
people to email I would go on LinkedIn I
would create our own marketing examples
for ourselves I I would try and think of
workshops that I could give and you know
today the we weren’t really blogging
back then even but today I would today I
would I would just decide to become who
I want to be
I would I would start a persona I would
create videos like you do because your
video company why not I would uh I would
blog about it I would connect with
people I would just out I mean I would
just go out there and do it fake it to
you make it right and the way was was
you right yeah sorry I always say weeks
I was gonna start the firm with a
partner and things fell apart beforehand
and I also be wanting to be a big
company I always talk in the in the we
because now we have many people but back
then it was just me and I didn’t want
anyone to know it was just me because I
felt if I was charging you know if I
surging a thousand dollars for my time
for the day I had I didn’t believe I
thought that if people knew I was doing
all the work that they wouldn’t they
just wouldn’t value to pay me what I
thought I was worth and so I always said
we this we that we’ll get back to you
and I just
people call me on that now but but I
always say we we we it was just me I was
me in a two hundred square foot office
with fluorescent lighting it was
terrible
I’m curious as to so when you started
your business he said you never thought
you would get to where you are now but
now you can see how you can get to 30
times bigger no you don’t know the step
so I’m wondering that what caused that
change in self-confidence and in belief
that was there a moment that you felt
like now now it’s on now it’s working or
have just been a slow progression
because now you’re very confident were
at the start you weren’t so I’m
wondering what caused that difference uh
I trust the people I’ve surrounded
myself with and so you know you’re you
and I have conversations too you know
you’re you’re pushing me in your heart
are me I have a business coach that
helps me with operations that I that I
trust in I’ve hired staff and surrounded
myself from people who are just
so good at their job and and so I I just
I I what I’ve learned is it will take
way more time than I ever think it will
everything takes so much time
you know it’s just I’ve been at this
eight years and and I thought I would be
where we were four years ago but really
we’ve seen most of our growth just in
our last four years and so and so the
confidence comes from people you know
our clients being really receptive to
what we’re doing us you know increasing
sales us delivering always pushing
deliver better work building our
portfolio and and just Saran today build
a business where I could do what I loved
and didn’t have to do everything
and so surrounding myself with people
who literally they surprised me it
surprised me every single day with with
what we’re doing and I’m so pride I
don’t even feel you know I’m so proud of
what we do as a company and I’m amazed
with what the guys do so if I can feel
that delight like a client will that’s
that excites me and so that I have
confidence that I will always be able to
surround myself with people who are
really smart and I will always be able
to figure out a way to to sell or
communicate what it is we do because
because as long as people as long as
businesses need help with communications
of some sort marketing sales issues
whatever whatever it is and video is a
way to communicate I know we’ll be here
and a video isn’t a way to communicate
then we’ll find that that new channel to
communicate and still apply everything
we’ve learned
I love it man I love it ah one last
question coming in from Hector who’s
asking if you could go back and tell
yourself when you were starting one
thing what would it be um oh jeez I mean
we it’s funny we talked about startup we
talked about now there’s this whole
recession that just clobbered us like we
blew through all our cash I laid off the
small staff I had I I literally we had
no money
I personally didn’t pay myself for six
months I went into debt I went into debt
to hire the sales guy and I and I paid
him a salary and I didn’t pay myself for
six months so like there was the startup
time that was hard there was the last
four years we’ve seen a lot of growth
but there was a there’s this really
terrible middle year uh in in 2009 where
where it was really really hard and so
if I went back to start up I think I
would probably I think I would probably
scare myself out of doing it or keeping
going so the only thing I could say is
like I could pull the line it gets
better right it gets it you know
I heard someone once say that your
career is like a giant lineup and if as
long as you stay in line and work hard
your time will come
but if you get out of line and you
decide to get back into line you have to
start at the back again and so I think
about that because you know what the
guys who I really look up to who are
doing great work they’ve all been doing
this for 25 or 30 years and I’m on year
I’m on year 8 in my business so if I
jump from thing to thing to thing to
thing to thing rather than take what I
have and massage it and grow it and
change and change it changes with me
then I’m getting out of line and I’m
throwing myself and I gotta start all
over again I want to stay in line and so
if I went back and told myself I would
just I don’t know I would just do the
typical you know like stick with it it’s
you know it’s gonna get it’s gonna get
better
the truth is it’s really really hard and
I think most entrepreneurs are a little
bit we’re not we’re not risk takers were
foolish right we foolishly believe that
we can do it better than everyone else
and we’ll keep working at it until it is
better than everyone else
um and so uh yeah I don’t know I
wouldn’t I probably wouldn’t tell myself
very much
all right well on that note mark thanks
man thanks to the time for people
watching working and learn more about
you so they can check us out at Fanta
Mediacom for our corporate stuff I also
put in I put a link there to an Adobe
session we did last April now that’s
more for people who already have a video
company who want to kind of grow it to
bigger it’s a it’s a one-hour session we
did with Adobe talking about how to grow
a business to be maybe a bit more
successful and what to focus on so you
can certainly check that out or our blog
which is blog.bufferapp.com
believe believe you got it man okay
thanks for watch back you see chief
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