we’re gonna be a million dollar business
so let’s you know we were 650 we’re
gonna be a million dollar business so
let’s ramp up like a million dollar
business three years I had ramped up to
be the million dollar business that
wasn’t there
right and in those years our
profitability like drop yeah thanks
Yankees out of these bodies yeah whereas
before that when we were flying off the
handle like the most money we ever made
was when we were six hundred and forty
thousand dollar company yes they were
like fit take-home yeah yeah they’re
like four or five of us in the business
we went we were working like crazy yeah
and I went I’m ready to be the big
company I’m gonna become I’m gonna hire
the way the big companies do yeah and
that hurt us that hurt us until like two
years ago yeah when we made big changes
again and we started going like forget
[Music]
welcome I believe nation we are doing a
ten-part series of how to build a
million dollar plus company in the
marketing agency business world world
this is my trigger this is episode nine
if you haven’t been following along go
back and watch them they’ve been gold
mark runs Fanta
he’s been how long when did you hit like
how long ago have you been milling plus
six years maybe six years ago hit
million-plus yeah awesome and today
we’re gonna talk about how to scale so
they’re seven I think you’re six or
seven weeks across the famiglia knows
you’re successful how to scale how to go
from like just being a solo entrepreneur
to now building a team and building up
the company because as we covered infuse
it for chip the previous video you can’t
build a million dollar company all on
your own and so you’ve got twelve
full-time people you’ve got tons of
freelancers work for you what’s your
advice on how to go from being a solo
entrepreneur to scaling your company
yeah so the biggest thing that you have
to do is is obviously know what you like
and don’t like I know your strengths and
weaknesses yeah right you always want to
so a lot of us when we’re starting we
feel at least I felt like I had to be
the smartest person in the room okay I
do feel like this is my company so
obviously I know everything and I guess
lucky for me there are so many parts of
the business that I know that I’m not
good at when I find someone who is much
better than me at
I’m like thank goodness you’re here like
I cannot wait to bring in people who are
better than me okay what they do and
that’s that’s the kind of multiplying
effect that in a creative agency that I
didn’t think about and I don’t know many
people if many people do mm-hmm is that
when I’m one person I’m not only limited
by my skill set and my time but I’m also
what’s selling and doing account
managing and trying to do the work or
trying to manage people all these things
and when I bring in two people it
doesn’t only double I mean it doesn’t
purely double the amount of productivity
you can dance yourself to manage that
person yeah but it doesn’t only double
that there are now two people it
actually raises what the agency is
capable of because the person I’m hiring
if I hire you mm-hm
you’re let’s be frank like Evan is
really good at coaching people and
speaking to people suddenly I hire you
an Infanta has a new coaching division
of the business right we’re now the
experts at coaching because I can
leverage your credibility I can leverage
your background I can leverage all these
things right and when I go from two
people to three people Michael on my
team twenty years of experience with
analytics with product management I’m
not a product manager yeah but he has
been a product manager at really big
companies and so when we work with a
client and he’s talking about SKUs and
warehouses and all this stuff like I
have no experience suddenly fanta has
the experience right and so I almost I
wasn’t aware of the magic that comes
from each person that you can add who
can be better than you who can elevate
the company who you can leverage your
experience now can go the other way
alright you can miss hi I’ve missed
hired lots of people you can it is
higher and it can be kind of a downer
but the way that I look at people and
scaling in the way that I suggest most
people do does not only look at the
person who can do what you want them to
do but that’s an opportunity to grow
your story to grow your brand to grow
your capabilities and you can sell you
tell the benefits of having that person
who should be the first person somebody
how do you figure out who my first hire
should be it’s gonna be your opposite so
if I’m really great at sales but I’m
terrible at operations and delivery and
production
I need a production person I’m really
great at designed but I’m terrible
customer service I need a customer
service an Account Manager if you know
really within our industry like you’re
either really good at the craft and then
you need the business or the sales
person or you really
I I was much better and I am I think
much better at the the sales and account
management side really our business took
off
when I was able to afford you know a
better producer a better director a
better camera people that are editors
better photographers better people that
wireframing better people at strategy
than me like like we have been a core
team of 12 and then lots of freelancers
is because in I mean I’d love to have
like 18 people here like I want I want
to I want a business manager because I
struggle to keep on top of all of the
contracts and all of the legal and all
of the accounting I’m just not good at
it I like it so we have big projects
they never have a contract side and
people like where’s the contract like
you know I never signed it like eight
months ago and like that’s not great we
should end doing that so so you look at
all the parts of the business but you
start with just like the polar opposite
in my opinion of you okay I’m really
great at the craft I want someone better
at the business I’m really good at the
business I want someone better at the
craft so that way you elevate okay so
that’s from one to two and when you go
to three or four or five I recommend you
look at the areas of the business that
are holding you back meaning
so if you can’t get things produced fast
enough hmm so in in a creative agency
the speed in which you produce and
actually affects your margins more than
anything else okay right and so so if
you have staff on salary and you plan
for them to spend you know a week on it
so forty hours working on and they spend
60 your margins are gone if it’s a
freelance project though you might say
well it doesn’t matter how many weeks it
takes because I’m only it’s a fixed
price but it takes a certain amount of
time to sell something a certain amount
of time to bring it into production
certain amount of time to work on it and
and by the time you get to the part
where you’re delivering that stretched
out project you now have bodies working
on something that was sold and should
have been done three months ago and
you’re burning through your overhead and
now suddenly you get to the next part of
it and you’re selling your next project
you can’t work on that project because
you’re busy trying to deliver the thing
from three months ago right so so when I
mean the parts that are broken or
holding you back is speed of delivery
holding you back are you making mistakes
with coming
occations and then maybe you need like a
project manager hmm or maybe sales like
your team you just sit around doing
nothing
maybe you got to get more business maybe
I’m that’s not your back no I’m very
hesitant to say that okay because you
just well because when we did the last
video series had a whole million dollar
business I had a sales person at the
time yeah I talked about how I have
three years in I put the whole business
on the line to hire a sales person okay
and and I hired someone who helped me a
lot and they were with me for seven
years yeah they like I don’t think Fanta
could have gotten where it was without
that person I really don’t like I
learned a lot we grew up together so why
are you hesitant to say sales is a
problem for companies because and I’ve
learned this since I’ve mentioned that
yeah is people think I need a
salesperson okay right but a salesperson
most salespeople still require lead
generation sure to handle them they
still require create account management
after the fact sure they like they will
they still don’t know your business as
well as you so you still need to feed
them information so they end up so at a
certain point they will help you close
some sales right but then it’ll start to
shift to the point where you’re actually
hiring other resources just to feed that
sales person just so they can do their
job and it becomes an actual negative on
the company well whether it’s sales are
marketing like if you’re saying what’s
the problem the business it may be that
you’re just you have too much work and
you have to hire people to scale up yeah
or you’ve got too many people you know
even a project so whether it’s a sales
person or a PPC campaign or yeah in most
agencies don’t so it’s a bit
chicken-and-egg they’re like I need the
staff yet to make the sales but I need
sales to pay for the staff right and so
we always grew our business based off of
kind of I don’t even think bootstrapping
it’s the right word okay it’s more like
constantly flying apart at the seams
and so when I hired so like if I go
through my order like when I hired
Daniel who was my first sales person it
was like I had it was just me and him
yeah we hired our first editor it was
because literally hire was a salesperson
no my first hire that was real so I
hired a hired a PA of a production
assistant to assist me in this and a
part-time a full-time times only with me
nine months and then the recession
in 2009 and okay you know we were only
180 thousand dollar company okay but the
first employee that helped you grow your
company was the salesperson and you were
doing all of the videos filming
operations everything everything else
but I responsible even for trying to
generate do it again would I do it again
if I started the company again no how
much better it sales now so I would you
you would do the sales and you had hired
the team to do the rest
you got it first hires that’s confidence
and that’s external force no Karma but
my first my first real hire right but I
the company had zero money yeah right we
it was two thousand and just finish 2008
we ate through all of our cash that we
had on reserve there was a three month
period we had zero sales yeah and I was
gonna close the company down and then I
called my mom and I said I you know I
started 2006 I was like it’s just too
hard you know like why have I given
three years of my life
mm-hmm to do something that has no money
in the bank I didn’t earn any income
during that time like I gave three years
of my life yeah yeah and and it was
February and I hired I found a sales
person through through a recruiter
yeah hired a recruiter paid six grand
for a recruiter found a sales person
Andrew this amazing guy that were still
friends with that I really love to have
on board and three weeks in he quit
because he had been offered his dream
job right and he didn’t know was gonna
happen and he would never have accepted
my job if he realized and so I’m left
with like well I just spent I paid him
three weeks salary of really right at me
I got a nothing for it and then I and I
had no money yeah so I went out and
borrowed money I bought 40 or 50 grand
right and I went back to the recruiter I
said find me the next person and then
that was when I didn’t pay myself for
six months I cut checks and I paid that
person and you know like Daniel
sacrificed a lot too so so that’s the
day like he came in not as a sales
person he came in as a is it with a
partner mindset right and what I don’t
I didn’t realize then but most of my
staff whether people work for me hmm
you know you said something about me
being a boss earlier and I’m like I’m
not really a boss I’m just the guy who’s
kind of in charge everybody’s listen to
you okay yeah yeah but I actually hire
people i I think I hire more people who
treat me like a business partner I treat
them like a business part okay so I mean
they’re not fully aware of everything on
the financial side right you
net profit margins and things like that
but when it comes to like guys how do we
do this as a business yeah they’re on
board like how do we how do we how do we
figure this out how do we change this
what’s gonna happen guys this department
is getting completely overrun all the
hands on deck
like we’re all we’re all business
partners we’re all like but but they
also get the rewards from it we do
profit sharing models yeah so if you
know staff have come to me in the past
who and have been like I’m facing this
life situation I don’t know how I’m
gonna get by this month financially so
try to like well we just cut them a
check and hand them a bonus mm-hmm like
I can’t have my team at work no work
yeah and what I’m thinking of like I
want to I want to own them right like
them but I’m not a boss well no then I
Martin I want every aspect of their life
and then I get amazing people dedicated
to our cause yeah yeah and so I can’t
have someone at work barely getting by
like it’s the give and take yeah it’s
the it’s the like this isn’t you know
and first hire freelancer or full-time
you had a bunch of freelancers
what should be advice be first hires
because I mean I agree but because yeah
it’s just the variable cost model so you
have to be able to keep your overhead
down now we built our business a bit
unusually you are eating look at this
she’s a great group he’s eaten a screw
this is not dark food are you gonna stay
in my lap marks a builder so this is
random that’s crews actually pulled this
out of an electrical outlet not just wow
not just companies but it likes to build
stuff too ya know so freelancer yeah so
we built our company a bit unusually
because what should people do what do
you think they should do well but I’m
biased so so so I think you should work
with freelancers yeah when we started
our company everyone was working
freelancers yeah and freelancers are
four five six times more expensive than
the whole time yeah so I immediately
said hey hiring full-time is really
expensive but if I can hire full-time
and then keep them really really busy
right my margins are like amazing right
so we built our business that way but
year over year over a year I I love for
the freelancer model to start because it
also teaches to be a better leader on a
low yeah what about freelancers yeah is
uh is one I think it takes a long time
to
into a groove with string yeah not only
train them but them train here rather
than you are yeah so they got to teach
you you got to teach them you got to
work together you got to develop
shorthand yeah
and so I I would rather invest that in
people who were gonna keep around now we
have freelancers who we’ve worked with
for six or seven years who are still
freelance yeah because every time I look
at the end of the year how much I’ve
paid them it still doesn’t warrant me
hiring them full-time right but but we
like to we like to hold on to people
yeah we’re good people aren’t good you
know I love collecting good people a lot
of people who are in this field are
artists and they’re great at what they
do and they hire somebody who’s not as
good as them and they feel like this
person can’t do what I do and then they
get rid of them and they feel like I’m
never gonna scale I’m you know I suck at
managing I’m just gonna go back and do
everything myself and that could work
but you’re never gonna be a million
dollar company doing it so how do you
get through that initial phase of like
the first person doesn’t work out and
this guy left and it took three weeks
pay and I hire someone but they’re not
what I thought they would be and I hired
the wrong person like all of the bumps
that come at the beginning of hiring
because you’ve never done it before so
you suck and you get the wrong people
and they’re not as good as you so like
how do you get through all that so get
used to the fact that every time that
you hire someone for a role the first
person will be wrong okay like I I’m
into this a long time yeah I feel like
I’m pretty good at hiring yeah and yet
the first person I hire for any new role
doesn’t seem to be the right person
improving maybe once wrong player making
wrong once right where someone did come
in and they were just great
right but hey so Sookie so get
comfortable with these just don’t you
just don’t know what you need from the
person you kind of think you do you
don’t know what you’re looking for you
don’t you need so that’s fine so yeah so
get comfortable that the other thing is
give up the things that you’re really
good at last right right so probably
opposite you first yeah for me I have
very much struggled in the company to
give up copywriting hmm you’re gonna
copyrighted this guy this man is a I
admire his copywriting okay I look at
his he could like brain dump awesomeness
that takes like just out of nothing like
it’s amazing yeah but I have a good team
as well but but I have
like it it has bugged me for years where
I go I’m doing strategy I’m doing sales
that should be focused on all of this
stuff and yet I’m doing this low value
copywriting why don’t we find a
copywriter who can write copy and do
write I want this and that and yet it
may be low it’s not low value it’s just
low perceived value to me and right my
role in the business right and yet if
you have bad copy everything about the
project falls apart it’s gone yeah so
I’m always like I’m still working on
video scripts right so anyway we’re all
these years into it and it’s one of the
very last things that I’m willing to
give up I think creative direction or
art direction is the last thing I’m
willing to give up right you will give
it up at some point yeah yeah and so how
do you deal with that honey shows it
just because you found somebody who can
actually do it better than you or is on
par with you if you feel like you’re
amazing at it and you give it to
somebody who sucks yeah I’ll be the one
tool that we do because we always look
very analytical yeah and I try to
explain to my team we call it my way not
my way right or wrong so think of a
matrix for things yeah right there’s
like there’s like my way not my way
right yeah yeah
so if it’s wrong it has to be fixed sure
even if it’s wrong in my opinion your
way yeah it has to be fixed right if
it’s right everybody’s dandy yeah if
it’s my way even better but if it’s not
my way and it’s right it’s right still I
have to let it go right everybody should
let it go right because then that’s just
me micromanaging but right is what by
the metrics that you’re writing right as
the metrics right is we hit our times I
talked about conversations we’ve had it
feels right for the product we’re really
trying to work to not get bogged down on
what it’s like just inherently I feel is
kind of like not my way right but the
client doesn’t think it’s wrong my team
doesn’t think it’s wrong yeah the
designer doesn’t think it’s wrong and so
I just I let it go in its heart and I
let it go and then when something goes
wrong and the client comes back and is
like you know they like oh I don’t
really like that like oh right no I
should have spoken up hmm but that that
doesn’t happen we talked about that in
the gut okay like when it’s screaming
and everyone says it’s okay and I was
like I should have just done it my way
mm-hmm but you and I tell that to my
team like as as as I turn something over
to producer and that producer become has
to start to turn over to the thinking
people below them and then they have to
turn things over to freelancers I’m now
five steps removed from decisions that
are being made right like I have to
believe that every step below
understands the context of what’s
happening in the best intentions in this
and that and the little things can
really mess you up but you cannot grow a
business having every element of
everything be perfect right right you
have to I mean you talk to me about this
right there’s the world-class things
yeah what are you gonna be my answer to
you was everything right I think my
answer was like I’m gonna be world-class
at account management and design and
analytics and development and this and
it is you’re like no so one last thing I
will say because I mentioned about how
like things are flying off the handle
all the time we only hire someone when
that higher opposites a higher yeah and
we are so busy yeah we couldn’t possibly
go on another day okay so in our
business their journals these be like
but you’ve been drowning for six months
right or eight months right right our
businesses have absent flows right the
water is already in the lungs and you
don’t know if you’re really really busy
right now yeah like you know the Lord
has provided us and it’s never gonna
stop raining yeah and then nine months
later you’re like where did all the
business go what happened right and you
have all these people here and you’re
like oh I ramped up to be this business
that I’m not turning out to be great and
so it’s mostly my comfort level yeah but
but I literally will wait like six or
nine months of just insanity and if it’s
proven season over season that it’s
still insane and it still looks insane
ahead then I go okay I’m comfortable to
hire someone got it but you know a bunch
of years ago I switched my hiring
practice from that model I just
mentioned yeah
– we’re gonna be a million dollar
business so let’s you know we were 650
we’re gonna be a million dollar business
so let’s ramp up like a million dollar
business okay and we didn’t hit a
million dollars you like 700 mm-hmm and
then I think we hit like nine twenty and
then
hit a million dollars but for three
years I had ramped up to be the million
dollar business that wasn’t there
right and in those years our
profitability like dropped the paint
Yankees out of those bodies
yeah whereas before that when we were
flying off the handle like the most
money we ever made was when we were six
hundred and forty thousand dollar
company we’re like – thank God
yeah yeah they were like four or five of
us in the business we were we were
working like crazy yeah and I went I’m
ready to be the big company I’m gonna
become I’m gonna hire the way the big
companies do yeah and that hurt us that
hurt us until like two years ago yeah
when we made big changes again and we
started going like forget this we need
to be flying off the handle
what are you where do you what’s it like
what’s what a scaling look like for you
now are you good where you at you want
to know so wouldn’t we fly off the
handle right now well but where do you
were like what’s the future version what
are you trying to build did you know you
so forgive me I haven’t figured out
what’s that you never have it figured
out okay so I know what I want to do for
people yeah and I know the value I want
to drive for them and I know the types
of clients who are perfect clients
mm-hmm and what they should pay us very
hard to know if all those things are
gonna align when you’re facing a project
in front of you hmm
and when you’re halfway through and
things aren’t quite good or they’re not
going well you know like there was a
week two weeks ago where I was yelled at
by three clients like I had to have
really tough conversations three clients
one of them they were confused because
were so busy they were confused by the
way we were account managing and I had
one conversation someone else on my team
had another conversation we contradicted
one another and we didn’t know that we
had and she and she was like what is
going on here and I’m like yeah that’s
that’s embarrassing yeah we’d have an
open conversation with her about like
I’m sorry yeah you know another I don’t
know what the other was another client
called at us and was not pleased with
some things that were happening hmm last
week I got I got destroyed by a client
who did it because of one mistake one
outsource developer made on one page of
one site that caused the entire
e-commerce site to crash well it was
down for whatever 18 minutes yeah but
you know it was like we weren’t we
weren’t even charging the client for the
work yeah we’re just managing it to be
friendly yeah and
and you know like on a Friday you know
even now like I’m like you feel like
garbage because of this one little
mistake from this one little thing yeah
and so when you have those days you go
like this isn’t fun why am I doing this
right
but then I have conversations with
people where I’m like I’m like hey I
have the opportunity to change your life
right like your business is here and
it’s gonna be here
and if I can enable you to get there not
only do I help you but I help everyone
that you help right right and you can
make videos like this inspire so many
people it’s fun right it’s fun but yeah
so I hear you’re here but but I mean you
know but how’d you beat do you see
yourself being double the size triple
the size is that not how you like we we
need six more people right now hmm
but do you want to be like 10 times the
size I think we should I don’t I don’t
know if it’s what I want or what we need
or we need to do okay right you know
like like we’re hovering around two
million dollars and that’s okay yeah
and it’s a very different company for
six or eight or ten million dollars very
very different company and and I don’t
have the the I’m not opposed building
that company but I just want to know I’m
more curious why I would want to build
that hmm all right so if I want to build
that because it’s like I really want
that hundred person team yeah and I
really want the eight million dollars in
revenue like for like an eight million
dollar company earns more or less the
same profits that a two million dollar
company has when you’re in marketing be
cute because you’re gonna go through
these ebbs and flows I mean if you’re
really eight million eight million a
meal you’re really tight really good
you’re gonna earn a lot of money yeah
but what we do okay so it’s got to be
more about about the capabilities about
how well we do it for me yeah and and
the the amount we are able to impact a
business right it’s all I care about
well when we make out how to get to
eight million dollar marketing agency
well come back and do this all again
yeah no let’s go on pom-pom to see your
growth okay so I key takeaways if you
want to build a million-dollar business
you can’t do it by yourself in this
industry you have to you have to bring
on people you hire your opposite don’t
hire the person who does what you do
hire the exact opposite stuff you hate
start with freelancers and then work
your way to get full-time let go of the
thing that you love the most last in
your business and it doesn’t even the
thing you love the things are your best
to think of your best at last love the
copywriting I just think I’m good at it
and then expect your first hire in each
role that you hire for not to work out
the suck yeah it’s unfortunate and and
you’ll find your good person on the
other side of the continuing to go
through the hiring process yeah yeah
cool the last thing yeah I used to be
paranoid about it don’t be afraid for
good people to leave you alright he used
to motivate me to do all kinds of crazy
things and I would live in a fear and
all this stuff and good people calm and
good people leave mm-hmm a lot of good
people out there your company will
survive anyway all right don’t be afraid
for your company to shrink by 50 percent
mm-hmm you haven’t I have a friend a
mentor who ran a 40-person agency that’s
down to 18 people and they’re doing the
best work they’ve ever done mmm
right it’s not like like companies grow
in agencies the companies grow and they
shrink in they go up and they go down
and you have good years any of bad years
and and people come and people go and
and the company will go on yeah right
what you can do for people will go on
it’s it took me like 11 years to figure
that out but I feel much more free now
that I know him hopefully they learn it
faster that’s how we’re hacking is rain
there you go speaking of that point the
next video the last one is series on
motivation how to say motivate is an
entrepreneur it’s the 10 out of 10 the
last food in the series the link should
be right there next to me click on it we’ll see you there
so let’s you know we were 650 we’re
gonna be a million dollar business so
let’s ramp up like a million dollar
business three years I had ramped up to
be the million dollar business that
wasn’t there
right and in those years our
profitability like drop yeah thanks
Yankees out of these bodies yeah whereas
before that when we were flying off the
handle like the most money we ever made
was when we were six hundred and forty
thousand dollar company yes they were
like fit take-home yeah yeah they’re
like four or five of us in the business
we went we were working like crazy yeah
and I went I’m ready to be the big
company I’m gonna become I’m gonna hire
the way the big companies do yeah and
that hurt us that hurt us until like two
years ago yeah when we made big changes
again and we started going like forget
[Music]
welcome I believe nation we are doing a
ten-part series of how to build a
million dollar plus company in the
marketing agency business world world
this is my trigger this is episode nine
if you haven’t been following along go
back and watch them they’ve been gold
mark runs Fanta
he’s been how long when did you hit like
how long ago have you been milling plus
six years maybe six years ago hit
million-plus yeah awesome and today
we’re gonna talk about how to scale so
they’re seven I think you’re six or
seven weeks across the famiglia knows
you’re successful how to scale how to go
from like just being a solo entrepreneur
to now building a team and building up
the company because as we covered infuse
it for chip the previous video you can’t
build a million dollar company all on
your own and so you’ve got twelve
full-time people you’ve got tons of
freelancers work for you what’s your
advice on how to go from being a solo
entrepreneur to scaling your company
yeah so the biggest thing that you have
to do is is obviously know what you like
and don’t like I know your strengths and
weaknesses yeah right you always want to
so a lot of us when we’re starting we
feel at least I felt like I had to be
the smartest person in the room okay I
do feel like this is my company so
obviously I know everything and I guess
lucky for me there are so many parts of
the business that I know that I’m not
good at when I find someone who is much
better than me at
I’m like thank goodness you’re here like
I cannot wait to bring in people who are
better than me okay what they do and
that’s that’s the kind of multiplying
effect that in a creative agency that I
didn’t think about and I don’t know many
people if many people do mm-hmm is that
when I’m one person I’m not only limited
by my skill set and my time but I’m also
what’s selling and doing account
managing and trying to do the work or
trying to manage people all these things
and when I bring in two people it
doesn’t only double I mean it doesn’t
purely double the amount of productivity
you can dance yourself to manage that
person yeah but it doesn’t only double
that there are now two people it
actually raises what the agency is
capable of because the person I’m hiring
if I hire you mm-hm
you’re let’s be frank like Evan is
really good at coaching people and
speaking to people suddenly I hire you
an Infanta has a new coaching division
of the business right we’re now the
experts at coaching because I can
leverage your credibility I can leverage
your background I can leverage all these
things right and when I go from two
people to three people Michael on my
team twenty years of experience with
analytics with product management I’m
not a product manager yeah but he has
been a product manager at really big
companies and so when we work with a
client and he’s talking about SKUs and
warehouses and all this stuff like I
have no experience suddenly fanta has
the experience right and so I almost I
wasn’t aware of the magic that comes
from each person that you can add who
can be better than you who can elevate
the company who you can leverage your
experience now can go the other way
alright you can miss hi I’ve missed
hired lots of people you can it is
higher and it can be kind of a downer
but the way that I look at people and
scaling in the way that I suggest most
people do does not only look at the
person who can do what you want them to
do but that’s an opportunity to grow
your story to grow your brand to grow
your capabilities and you can sell you
tell the benefits of having that person
who should be the first person somebody
how do you figure out who my first hire
should be it’s gonna be your opposite so
if I’m really great at sales but I’m
terrible at operations and delivery and
production
I need a production person I’m really
great at designed but I’m terrible
customer service I need a customer
service an Account Manager if you know
really within our industry like you’re
either really good at the craft and then
you need the business or the sales
person or you really
I I was much better and I am I think
much better at the the sales and account
management side really our business took
off
when I was able to afford you know a
better producer a better director a
better camera people that are editors
better photographers better people that
wireframing better people at strategy
than me like like we have been a core
team of 12 and then lots of freelancers
is because in I mean I’d love to have
like 18 people here like I want I want
to I want a business manager because I
struggle to keep on top of all of the
contracts and all of the legal and all
of the accounting I’m just not good at
it I like it so we have big projects
they never have a contract side and
people like where’s the contract like
you know I never signed it like eight
months ago and like that’s not great we
should end doing that so so you look at
all the parts of the business but you
start with just like the polar opposite
in my opinion of you okay I’m really
great at the craft I want someone better
at the business I’m really good at the
business I want someone better at the
craft so that way you elevate okay so
that’s from one to two and when you go
to three or four or five I recommend you
look at the areas of the business that
are holding you back meaning
so if you can’t get things produced fast
enough hmm so in in a creative agency
the speed in which you produce and
actually affects your margins more than
anything else okay right and so so if
you have staff on salary and you plan
for them to spend you know a week on it
so forty hours working on and they spend
60 your margins are gone if it’s a
freelance project though you might say
well it doesn’t matter how many weeks it
takes because I’m only it’s a fixed
price but it takes a certain amount of
time to sell something a certain amount
of time to bring it into production
certain amount of time to work on it and
and by the time you get to the part
where you’re delivering that stretched
out project you now have bodies working
on something that was sold and should
have been done three months ago and
you’re burning through your overhead and
now suddenly you get to the next part of
it and you’re selling your next project
you can’t work on that project because
you’re busy trying to deliver the thing
from three months ago right so so when I
mean the parts that are broken or
holding you back is speed of delivery
holding you back are you making mistakes
with coming
occations and then maybe you need like a
project manager hmm or maybe sales like
your team you just sit around doing
nothing
maybe you got to get more business maybe
I’m that’s not your back no I’m very
hesitant to say that okay because you
just well because when we did the last
video series had a whole million dollar
business I had a sales person at the
time yeah I talked about how I have
three years in I put the whole business
on the line to hire a sales person okay
and and I hired someone who helped me a
lot and they were with me for seven
years yeah they like I don’t think Fanta
could have gotten where it was without
that person I really don’t like I
learned a lot we grew up together so why
are you hesitant to say sales is a
problem for companies because and I’ve
learned this since I’ve mentioned that
yeah is people think I need a
salesperson okay right but a salesperson
most salespeople still require lead
generation sure to handle them they
still require create account management
after the fact sure they like they will
they still don’t know your business as
well as you so you still need to feed
them information so they end up so at a
certain point they will help you close
some sales right but then it’ll start to
shift to the point where you’re actually
hiring other resources just to feed that
sales person just so they can do their
job and it becomes an actual negative on
the company well whether it’s sales are
marketing like if you’re saying what’s
the problem the business it may be that
you’re just you have too much work and
you have to hire people to scale up yeah
or you’ve got too many people you know
even a project so whether it’s a sales
person or a PPC campaign or yeah in most
agencies don’t so it’s a bit
chicken-and-egg they’re like I need the
staff yet to make the sales but I need
sales to pay for the staff right and so
we always grew our business based off of
kind of I don’t even think bootstrapping
it’s the right word okay it’s more like
constantly flying apart at the seams
and so when I hired so like if I go
through my order like when I hired
Daniel who was my first sales person it
was like I had it was just me and him
yeah we hired our first editor it was
because literally hire was a salesperson
no my first hire that was real so I
hired a hired a PA of a production
assistant to assist me in this and a
part-time a full-time times only with me
nine months and then the recession
in 2009 and okay you know we were only
180 thousand dollar company okay but the
first employee that helped you grow your
company was the salesperson and you were
doing all of the videos filming
operations everything everything else
but I responsible even for trying to
generate do it again would I do it again
if I started the company again no how
much better it sales now so I would you
you would do the sales and you had hired
the team to do the rest
you got it first hires that’s confidence
and that’s external force no Karma but
my first my first real hire right but I
the company had zero money yeah right we
it was two thousand and just finish 2008
we ate through all of our cash that we
had on reserve there was a three month
period we had zero sales yeah and I was
gonna close the company down and then I
called my mom and I said I you know I
started 2006 I was like it’s just too
hard you know like why have I given
three years of my life
mm-hmm to do something that has no money
in the bank I didn’t earn any income
during that time like I gave three years
of my life yeah yeah and and it was
February and I hired I found a sales
person through through a recruiter
yeah hired a recruiter paid six grand
for a recruiter found a sales person
Andrew this amazing guy that were still
friends with that I really love to have
on board and three weeks in he quit
because he had been offered his dream
job right and he didn’t know was gonna
happen and he would never have accepted
my job if he realized and so I’m left
with like well I just spent I paid him
three weeks salary of really right at me
I got a nothing for it and then I and I
had no money yeah so I went out and
borrowed money I bought 40 or 50 grand
right and I went back to the recruiter I
said find me the next person and then
that was when I didn’t pay myself for
six months I cut checks and I paid that
person and you know like Daniel
sacrificed a lot too so so that’s the
day like he came in not as a sales
person he came in as a is it with a
partner mindset right and what I don’t
I didn’t realize then but most of my
staff whether people work for me hmm
you know you said something about me
being a boss earlier and I’m like I’m
not really a boss I’m just the guy who’s
kind of in charge everybody’s listen to
you okay yeah yeah but I actually hire
people i I think I hire more people who
treat me like a business partner I treat
them like a business part okay so I mean
they’re not fully aware of everything on
the financial side right you
net profit margins and things like that
but when it comes to like guys how do we
do this as a business yeah they’re on
board like how do we how do we how do we
figure this out how do we change this
what’s gonna happen guys this department
is getting completely overrun all the
hands on deck
like we’re all we’re all business
partners we’re all like but but they
also get the rewards from it we do
profit sharing models yeah so if you
know staff have come to me in the past
who and have been like I’m facing this
life situation I don’t know how I’m
gonna get by this month financially so
try to like well we just cut them a
check and hand them a bonus mm-hmm like
I can’t have my team at work no work
yeah and what I’m thinking of like I
want to I want to own them right like
them but I’m not a boss well no then I
Martin I want every aspect of their life
and then I get amazing people dedicated
to our cause yeah yeah and so I can’t
have someone at work barely getting by
like it’s the give and take yeah it’s
the it’s the like this isn’t you know
and first hire freelancer or full-time
you had a bunch of freelancers
what should be advice be first hires
because I mean I agree but because yeah
it’s just the variable cost model so you
have to be able to keep your overhead
down now we built our business a bit
unusually you are eating look at this
she’s a great group he’s eaten a screw
this is not dark food are you gonna stay
in my lap marks a builder so this is
random that’s crews actually pulled this
out of an electrical outlet not just wow
not just companies but it likes to build
stuff too ya know so freelancer yeah so
we built our company a bit unusually
because what should people do what do
you think they should do well but I’m
biased so so so I think you should work
with freelancers yeah when we started
our company everyone was working
freelancers yeah and freelancers are
four five six times more expensive than
the whole time yeah so I immediately
said hey hiring full-time is really
expensive but if I can hire full-time
and then keep them really really busy
right my margins are like amazing right
so we built our business that way but
year over year over a year I I love for
the freelancer model to start because it
also teaches to be a better leader on a
low yeah what about freelancers yeah is
uh is one I think it takes a long time
to
into a groove with string yeah not only
train them but them train here rather
than you are yeah so they got to teach
you you got to teach them you got to
work together you got to develop
shorthand yeah
and so I I would rather invest that in
people who were gonna keep around now we
have freelancers who we’ve worked with
for six or seven years who are still
freelance yeah because every time I look
at the end of the year how much I’ve
paid them it still doesn’t warrant me
hiring them full-time right but but we
like to we like to hold on to people
yeah we’re good people aren’t good you
know I love collecting good people a lot
of people who are in this field are
artists and they’re great at what they
do and they hire somebody who’s not as
good as them and they feel like this
person can’t do what I do and then they
get rid of them and they feel like I’m
never gonna scale I’m you know I suck at
managing I’m just gonna go back and do
everything myself and that could work
but you’re never gonna be a million
dollar company doing it so how do you
get through that initial phase of like
the first person doesn’t work out and
this guy left and it took three weeks
pay and I hire someone but they’re not
what I thought they would be and I hired
the wrong person like all of the bumps
that come at the beginning of hiring
because you’ve never done it before so
you suck and you get the wrong people
and they’re not as good as you so like
how do you get through all that so get
used to the fact that every time that
you hire someone for a role the first
person will be wrong okay like I I’m
into this a long time yeah I feel like
I’m pretty good at hiring yeah and yet
the first person I hire for any new role
doesn’t seem to be the right person
improving maybe once wrong player making
wrong once right where someone did come
in and they were just great
right but hey so Sookie so get
comfortable with these just don’t you
just don’t know what you need from the
person you kind of think you do you
don’t know what you’re looking for you
don’t you need so that’s fine so yeah so
get comfortable that the other thing is
give up the things that you’re really
good at last right right so probably
opposite you first yeah for me I have
very much struggled in the company to
give up copywriting hmm you’re gonna
copyrighted this guy this man is a I
admire his copywriting okay I look at
his he could like brain dump awesomeness
that takes like just out of nothing like
it’s amazing yeah but I have a good team
as well but but I have
like it it has bugged me for years where
I go I’m doing strategy I’m doing sales
that should be focused on all of this
stuff and yet I’m doing this low value
copywriting why don’t we find a
copywriter who can write copy and do
write I want this and that and yet it
may be low it’s not low value it’s just
low perceived value to me and right my
role in the business right and yet if
you have bad copy everything about the
project falls apart it’s gone yeah so
I’m always like I’m still working on
video scripts right so anyway we’re all
these years into it and it’s one of the
very last things that I’m willing to
give up I think creative direction or
art direction is the last thing I’m
willing to give up right you will give
it up at some point yeah yeah and so how
do you deal with that honey shows it
just because you found somebody who can
actually do it better than you or is on
par with you if you feel like you’re
amazing at it and you give it to
somebody who sucks yeah I’ll be the one
tool that we do because we always look
very analytical yeah and I try to
explain to my team we call it my way not
my way right or wrong so think of a
matrix for things yeah right there’s
like there’s like my way not my way
right yeah yeah
so if it’s wrong it has to be fixed sure
even if it’s wrong in my opinion your
way yeah it has to be fixed right if
it’s right everybody’s dandy yeah if
it’s my way even better but if it’s not
my way and it’s right it’s right still I
have to let it go right everybody should
let it go right because then that’s just
me micromanaging but right is what by
the metrics that you’re writing right as
the metrics right is we hit our times I
talked about conversations we’ve had it
feels right for the product we’re really
trying to work to not get bogged down on
what it’s like just inherently I feel is
kind of like not my way right but the
client doesn’t think it’s wrong my team
doesn’t think it’s wrong yeah the
designer doesn’t think it’s wrong and so
I just I let it go in its heart and I
let it go and then when something goes
wrong and the client comes back and is
like you know they like oh I don’t
really like that like oh right no I
should have spoken up hmm but that that
doesn’t happen we talked about that in
the gut okay like when it’s screaming
and everyone says it’s okay and I was
like I should have just done it my way
mm-hmm but you and I tell that to my
team like as as as I turn something over
to producer and that producer become has
to start to turn over to the thinking
people below them and then they have to
turn things over to freelancers I’m now
five steps removed from decisions that
are being made right like I have to
believe that every step below
understands the context of what’s
happening in the best intentions in this
and that and the little things can
really mess you up but you cannot grow a
business having every element of
everything be perfect right right you
have to I mean you talk to me about this
right there’s the world-class things
yeah what are you gonna be my answer to
you was everything right I think my
answer was like I’m gonna be world-class
at account management and design and
analytics and development and this and
it is you’re like no so one last thing I
will say because I mentioned about how
like things are flying off the handle
all the time we only hire someone when
that higher opposites a higher yeah and
we are so busy yeah we couldn’t possibly
go on another day okay so in our
business their journals these be like
but you’ve been drowning for six months
right or eight months right right our
businesses have absent flows right the
water is already in the lungs and you
don’t know if you’re really really busy
right now yeah like you know the Lord
has provided us and it’s never gonna
stop raining yeah and then nine months
later you’re like where did all the
business go what happened right and you
have all these people here and you’re
like oh I ramped up to be this business
that I’m not turning out to be great and
so it’s mostly my comfort level yeah but
but I literally will wait like six or
nine months of just insanity and if it’s
proven season over season that it’s
still insane and it still looks insane
ahead then I go okay I’m comfortable to
hire someone got it but you know a bunch
of years ago I switched my hiring
practice from that model I just
mentioned yeah
– we’re gonna be a million dollar
business so let’s you know we were 650
we’re gonna be a million dollar business
so let’s ramp up like a million dollar
business okay and we didn’t hit a
million dollars you like 700 mm-hmm and
then I think we hit like nine twenty and
then
hit a million dollars but for three
years I had ramped up to be the million
dollar business that wasn’t there
right and in those years our
profitability like dropped the paint
Yankees out of those bodies
yeah whereas before that when we were
flying off the handle like the most
money we ever made was when we were six
hundred and forty thousand dollar
company we’re like – thank God
yeah yeah they were like four or five of
us in the business we were we were
working like crazy yeah and I went I’m
ready to be the big company I’m gonna
become I’m gonna hire the way the big
companies do yeah and that hurt us that
hurt us until like two years ago yeah
when we made big changes again and we
started going like forget this we need
to be flying off the handle
what are you where do you what’s it like
what’s what a scaling look like for you
now are you good where you at you want
to know so wouldn’t we fly off the
handle right now well but where do you
were like what’s the future version what
are you trying to build did you know you
so forgive me I haven’t figured out
what’s that you never have it figured
out okay so I know what I want to do for
people yeah and I know the value I want
to drive for them and I know the types
of clients who are perfect clients
mm-hmm and what they should pay us very
hard to know if all those things are
gonna align when you’re facing a project
in front of you hmm
and when you’re halfway through and
things aren’t quite good or they’re not
going well you know like there was a
week two weeks ago where I was yelled at
by three clients like I had to have
really tough conversations three clients
one of them they were confused because
were so busy they were confused by the
way we were account managing and I had
one conversation someone else on my team
had another conversation we contradicted
one another and we didn’t know that we
had and she and she was like what is
going on here and I’m like yeah that’s
that’s embarrassing yeah we’d have an
open conversation with her about like
I’m sorry yeah you know another I don’t
know what the other was another client
called at us and was not pleased with
some things that were happening hmm last
week I got I got destroyed by a client
who did it because of one mistake one
outsource developer made on one page of
one site that caused the entire
e-commerce site to crash well it was
down for whatever 18 minutes yeah but
you know it was like we weren’t we
weren’t even charging the client for the
work yeah we’re just managing it to be
friendly yeah and
and you know like on a Friday you know
even now like I’m like you feel like
garbage because of this one little
mistake from this one little thing yeah
and so when you have those days you go
like this isn’t fun why am I doing this
right
but then I have conversations with
people where I’m like I’m like hey I
have the opportunity to change your life
right like your business is here and
it’s gonna be here
and if I can enable you to get there not
only do I help you but I help everyone
that you help right right and you can
make videos like this inspire so many
people it’s fun right it’s fun but yeah
so I hear you’re here but but I mean you
know but how’d you beat do you see
yourself being double the size triple
the size is that not how you like we we
need six more people right now hmm
but do you want to be like 10 times the
size I think we should I don’t I don’t
know if it’s what I want or what we need
or we need to do okay right you know
like like we’re hovering around two
million dollars and that’s okay yeah
and it’s a very different company for
six or eight or ten million dollars very
very different company and and I don’t
have the the I’m not opposed building
that company but I just want to know I’m
more curious why I would want to build
that hmm all right so if I want to build
that because it’s like I really want
that hundred person team yeah and I
really want the eight million dollars in
revenue like for like an eight million
dollar company earns more or less the
same profits that a two million dollar
company has when you’re in marketing be
cute because you’re gonna go through
these ebbs and flows I mean if you’re
really eight million eight million a
meal you’re really tight really good
you’re gonna earn a lot of money yeah
but what we do okay so it’s got to be
more about about the capabilities about
how well we do it for me yeah and and
the the amount we are able to impact a
business right it’s all I care about
well when we make out how to get to
eight million dollar marketing agency
well come back and do this all again
yeah no let’s go on pom-pom to see your
growth okay so I key takeaways if you
want to build a million-dollar business
you can’t do it by yourself in this
industry you have to you have to bring
on people you hire your opposite don’t
hire the person who does what you do
hire the exact opposite stuff you hate
start with freelancers and then work
your way to get full-time let go of the
thing that you love the most last in
your business and it doesn’t even the
thing you love the things are your best
to think of your best at last love the
copywriting I just think I’m good at it
and then expect your first hire in each
role that you hire for not to work out
the suck yeah it’s unfortunate and and
you’ll find your good person on the
other side of the continuing to go
through the hiring process yeah yeah
cool the last thing yeah I used to be
paranoid about it don’t be afraid for
good people to leave you alright he used
to motivate me to do all kinds of crazy
things and I would live in a fear and
all this stuff and good people calm and
good people leave mm-hmm a lot of good
people out there your company will
survive anyway all right don’t be afraid
for your company to shrink by 50 percent
mm-hmm you haven’t I have a friend a
mentor who ran a 40-person agency that’s
down to 18 people and they’re doing the
best work they’ve ever done mmm
right it’s not like like companies grow
in agencies the companies grow and they
shrink in they go up and they go down
and you have good years any of bad years
and and people come and people go and
and the company will go on yeah right
what you can do for people will go on
it’s it took me like 11 years to figure
that out but I feel much more free now
that I know him hopefully they learn it
faster that’s how we’re hacking is rain
there you go speaking of that point the
next video the last one is series on
motivation how to say motivate is an
entrepreneur it’s the 10 out of 10 the
last food in the series the link should
be right there next to me click on it we’ll see you there
Please follow and like us: