one knife all right hello believe nation
we are having some fun here with an
untruth while ago we did a contest on
our YouTube channel and I said I want to
help an entrepreneur I want to go in and
help his business and bring my team and
not just you know give advice but not to
get in there do some more and so we had
a few people submit and then my team
kind of pick the winner in and Louise
your hand from last minute training not
see a one so we’re here at louies office
I’ve got my a good chunk of my team with
me here we’ve never done a hang out with
everybody like this so it’ll be fun to
see how it goes and hopefully no snafus
um the louie asked us to come on and
they asked was for a landing page a
video and a social media template before
we kind of dive into it maybe Louie you
can tell us a little bit about last
minute training and what you’re all wet
awesome and this is our very first
google setting up too soon we make that
sort of training is ken’s largest market
place for training horses and a lot like
Expedia or Hotwire more priceline as for
travel but we do it for classroom we
meeting rather than there’s a reason
you’re a crazy yeah we worked at
competing vendors and what the job of a
smaller schedules on our website and
people go out here any made fun of the
courses this is a really bad the fish
you can you get your mixes that recycle
is killing me and you guys you guys hear
an echo to it you do everybody but it’ll
any good so you need to mute your only
to meet my money by your time it’s okay
okay awesome okay so starting again last
minute training is the big guy crowd
training classes so we help training
there’s put students into their classes
because one of the most difficult
prospects that a training compass
is filling their spaces and the more
seats they have full the more profitable
they are at the same time we bring for
casual website users we bring a discount
aspect so they can save a little money
the challenge for us is that the real
value we bring is not to the small
individual necessarily but to the
corporations in the corporate market
when corporations work with us they get
the convenience of a single source but
the benefit of an open competitive
market so they can make one to us and
we’ll present them with competitive
schedules competitive right all their
needs to do little research and we fax
information they don’t have we class is
going to cancel if it’s going to run we
get discounts that a lot of them don’t
get that we can pass along we bring a
lot of corporate value and we know for a
fact that we can walk into pretty much
any company that has four or five or
more IT people and bring them some huge
values see I hear the audience breaking
up is that the everybody all right good
so we know we can do that but we aren’t
good at explaining it the other thing is
and I think what how they piqued the
team’s interest most is that our driving
desire is to delight customers the one
value proposition that we don’t talk
about but that drives our DNA is to be
able to please clients so when someone
calls up yes they know are we know we’re
going to give them the best service
serene again industry and we’re going to
bend over backwards to make them happy
and the challenge we’ve had is how to
portray that how to talk about it how to
make people understand that that’s a big
part of what they get it’s not just the
the time savings it’s not just the
costumes the fact that we care about
them when we’re looking for we’re
shopping for them we’re representing
them and if we don’t make it client
happy I don’t think there’s anyone on
screen and our team who doesn’t worry
about it and it’s it’s quite it’s quite
an important part of what we do and
it’ll keep us awake at night so that’s
us in
shall I i hope i’ve covered most of it
unless Shannon Martha Lorna Rick have
something bad I’d like it i think i
think what i want to do because we’re
getting this you have to mute that i
have to mute and all this crazy i think
i’m gonna come over to your side unplug
your boat and we’ll just work off of
your computer i’ll just meet my stuff
here let’s do it yeah the team full of
cheer overly okay uh so why don’t we
talk a little bit about who’s here so
we’ve got a deal who’s doing a lot of
our website design on my team we’ve got
who says second oh the second picture is
me which is an empty chair because I’m
not on my computer we’ve got Janie who
is our media coach and it’s going to
help help you with your getting your
presentation out talking on camera Jen
who is our copy writer who’s going to be
working on the copy for the landing page
Christina who is going to be editing the
video that we put together and working
overnight to create something amazing
manzoor who does a lot of the admin and
marketing work on my team that we’re not
sure what he’s going to do yet but we’ll
figure it out as we go along we’ve got
ray who does a lot of our Twitter work
and marketing is that he’s going to be
doing some work on this project too and
then we’ve got your team so who’s there
you guys would introduce yourselves yeah
go for it yeah
there hi my name is Martha I’m the
operation the team hi I’m Shannon my
title changes weekly I’m Lorne on in
sales I record book academic sales and
that’s a team full so so wise um guys I
might seem what kind of questions do we
have for Louie and his team we’ve got
them for a little bit to try to figure
out how we’re going to help them in this
next 24 hours of crazy what kind of
questions you guys have for them to be
able to figure out you know our
deliverables within the other day it’s a
pretty quiet group everybody’s Mike that
actually why don’t we start with
delighted because we haven’t touched on
that yet so Louise one word is delighted
and be delighted as a team of the
campaign that we’re trying to do so you
want to quickly talk about about that
sure uh whenever I started his whole one
word campaign we met were a follower of
Evan Carmichael so try to understand
what it is and it came clear through
reading customer testimonials and
through our own conversations that
really what people care about is the
service we bring them and what we care
if it’s a service we bring and we want
to stop at nothing short than delight
and we won’t be delighted know when you
talk about training it sounds a little
bit silly too we’re delighted and but
that’s what we’re looking for it and use
a pick my son when he it was I’m bold
the biggest honest face because that
smile and adjoining that happiness that
deal after they bought from us it’s not
a marketing ploy it’s not a it’s not a
tagline it’s really what we strive for
in this really weddin you know makes us
go look at how happy Shannon is just by
having me talk about it she’s smiling so
big
so the problem is be delighted it is
tough the 22 reasons it’s tough one is
that it’s it if you’re talking to
corporate recognize it’s a little bully
sometimes talk about it so you really
have to believe in it to sell it I and
the second thing is the use of the word
delighted we didn’t realize till after
is a movement within the call center
industry that where they try to delight
their customers by doing some Sun a
little bit of negative connotation to
that right now but for us it’s really
everything I don’t know what else you
want me to mention that Evan I’m better
at answering questions and making stuff
up that’s good oh you guys hey hello can
you hear me yeah okay would be one to a
team by having a bad fit is kind of a
website do you want to have for your
business let me try it here la are you
talking about the the page were time of
creating who right now are west side is
very much national research enrich the
messaging on website has not doing be
plotted an event design and we’ve
already started by redesigning just
changing a little bit our color scheme
on our logo and and changing our fonts a
little or defining it we haven’t gone so
far as to change the entire website yet
because it’s a big massive monster
engine so what we’re trying to do is as
we create new stuff new landing pages
use the new branding and building this
be delighted message so the page that we
talked about you guys developing was
really us answering that question of how
do we express to our clients that for us
what’s important for them to be
delighted and that it’s not a tagline
that it’s not a gimmick it’s really in
our DNA and how do we how do we put that
through on our website and so the page
you guys are are creating for us is the
starting point from there everything
will build
and this transcript question challenge
is a good man he fought one google
hangout okay uh Jason it’s not a
question Jason over to you here Jason
yeah Jason might you have an internet
connection okay um Jen did you have
anything that you wanted to ask when
we’re here now yeah yeah definitely I’m
curious about your business model seems
kind of unique do you have any
competitors that kind of do what you do
and if not who you know who are your
competitors are they you know just the
school’s themselves or how does that
work you know what you’re just based on
that question you could come and work
for me already the answer is there is no
competitor to our business in canada in
the united states are a number of other
city in the u.s. in Canada’s pretty
unique its can another chick people
don’t quite understand what we do and at
the end of the day we are competing
directly our schools our vendors is we
call them the airline industry where the
culture is built around selling through
agents the training world has always
been about direct sales so you know we
kind of stuck ourself in as this middle
layer that is not quite understood okay
great and I’m just curious to about your
customers themselves and you said that
you through your surveys they said that
they were really delighted is that like
they’re probably the biggest advantage
you think you have besides the value I
mean is that the thing that makes you
stand out the most well I think the
value problem is everything combined for
corporations but the reason we say that
is because when we reviewed the actual
feedback so the actual comments left
after every class we have students that
we have a student and we give them a
feedback form a fellow then we ask them
about their experience with us and by
and farley talk with the service you
never hear you seldom do you hear oh I
saved a little bit of money
it’s always oh Shannon was amazing she
helped me do this Oh Martha was amazing
she helped me do this so it’s always
about how we help them always with the
service so that’s why we’ve latched on
to that as our key value proposition
because he even though a bunch of other
stuff at the end of the day they talking
about us are talking about that aspect
okay cool and do you have like when
people decide not to go with you I mean
what are the biggest objections that you
have what do you mean it’ll go with this
are there any objections when you go
talk to a business and they decide not
to use you yeah there any you know what
Martha Shannon my brother look better
than I do because they talked to so many
more of the clients typically and it’s
when people don’t understand the pain
that they’re facing that that we can’t
get through them so if I don’t get a lot
of objections I don’t get anyone saying
well that sounds like a stupid service
or there’s no way you’re gonna help me I
get some people saying well you know we
give all our we buy all our money we buy
all our training at one time in one big
pot at we give it to one vendor so we
get this big discount and it’s a bigger
discount that we and there’s a lot of
negatives unfortunately for them to go
along with that and unless they
understand those payments um it’s really
hard to get past that but other than
that objection um we’ve learned can face
every any other objection we’ve had like
some people want to know are they gonna
be treated anything or are they going to
lose anything by booking through ass
it’s usually not about objectives
ejections more about explaining why it’s
to this hear me Oh whoever you are
that’s Jason awesome music fantastic um
oh my god it’s so great to be here I
love you all know me and I asked
questions
gen do that did not answer your question
yeah but it’s a quick follow-up I’m just
curious you said there are negatives to
doing what they do sometimes which is
buying buying you know service all at
once at one school what are those
negatives if you think about it if
you’ve given all your money to school
one of the biggest problems in the
training industry is that classes get
cancelled more than eighty percent of
the IT classes that are scheduled on
anyone’s website get cancelled so if you
have given all your all your budget to
one vendor and and you need it let’s say
you needed a VMware class and they
canceled you’re kind of stuck until the
next one that they run and you know
they’re not going to run one till they
have enough students or as if they had
purchased through us and we have eight
different training vendors who offer
that same course so we would just move
their student over the other thing is
once you’ve piled all your money into
one one vendor I mean you have to spend
it what if you didn’t need to spend it
and we had a big client approached us
once to do business with us because they
had bought three hundred thousand of
training from one particular vendor and
then they needed to spend another budget
money about 50,000 for another project
and they went to that same vendor and
they asked if for that separate project
they could have the same discounts and
for some God knows reason a vendor said
no that because they weren’t buying it
all at once they couldn’t get the
discount was very frustrating for them
so tied into a single vendor you’re kind
of on the hook for doing business the
way they want to do business whether
it’s good for you or not if you think
about training look at the weight loss
industry huh not training but you were
to call the Running Room here in Canada
and Assam but the best way to lose
weight is they’ll tell you it’s to run
we’re call a legacy cycle it’s a takes
in classes the end of the day the render
is going to sell you what’s good for
them or they are the best solution they
have for you as opposed to you know
selling you the best solution for you
and so when you go through me like us
we’re always looking for the best
solution for them not the only solution
we have and hope it works for you
thank you so much hi Louie uh I’m how
long have you been in business ten years
ten years and what are your most popular
classes all I don’t know if ladies and
Rick what are the most popular classes
I’m you are you guys needed any on me
Phil mute it I need ya ya know there’s
still muted you know we go to the office
tops classes plus t know from the higher
and stuff the project management class
was the idea I’m sorry I couldn’t have
one would you say that again well hey
look look kind of the pottery classes
I’ll rephrase what Rick said since we
didn’t quite hear it I think he said you
know Microsoft Office classes technology
classes project management classes if
you think from a delivery of training
standpoint it’s a lot harder to run a
computerized trading session in your
office so clients tend to send employees
out to those types of training classes
and they bring in training for
management skills or soft skills and
more often than not so MS office all the
IT training and in project management
those types of training courses we have
such a breadth that the only way we can
tell you who the best ones are to say
the best our best sellers are the one
that’s not report so it’s really hard
for us an answer that question indeed
it’s mostly technology though right yeah
we’ll see tech knowledge i do if you
want to increase your technology skills
yeah the computer courses right yeah are
our focuses on our outbound focus is on
I like Katrina so that’s what’s
important verticals IT trainers are our
IT people all day and we don’t really
call a book alright can I go next your
grout awesome can you hear me hear you
excellent all right um can you see my
screen share you cannot see your screen
chair but we can hear you oh okay are
you sure yeah yeah there you go okay uh
well I don’t know if the audience can
see it and I’m not sure if you guys can
see it but I’ll just ask my questions so
uh sorry Jade if you guys want to see it
just click basins major bone into your
mainframe four teams gonna see that oh
yeah click my picture click my handsome
face exactly alright so okay so most of
my questions relate to this stuff in
orange can you see that I can see a lot
of questions okay so starting on the
right can you provide us with like
testimonials and logos of clients and
press coverage and stuff like that that
will need to create magic for you uh
logos yes taking metrics in this we
don’t have a ton of social right now so
be tough and testimonials yes press
coverage when we launched we had a lot
we had an entrepreneur magazine we’ve
had a bit not all it’s uh some of the
press coverages is not happy press
coverage it was how do i get write a
story that that they’ll publish so
sometimes you had to pretend we had
problems haha so stories bullets
I guess we can pull a lot of there’s a
lot of good examples we can you video we
have nothing happy photos we see the
photos on our landing pages so we have
photos like that but we don’t have a
whole lot of photos branding I gave Evan
we do have a specific font set and we do
have so absolutely and so that’s those
on the right okay cool um the only thing
to keep in mind i think for for us is
our team super creative so just the more
ammo the better like we’re never gonna
make you look bad unlike the press so so
just as much as you can provide we never
look bad if you can happen all right
well uh i’m most of the right hands by
jason we can we can pull out I got you
know maybe if you need questions of the
team you can you can probably get some
questions a good answers to all of those
all right ah so we’re going to skip the
one in the middle and go over to the
left uh so is membership important on
your site like can people interact with
your site as a as a guest like I know a
membership is something we use to make
you feel welcome and there’s no fee for
membership everyone who buys office is a
member right but I’m not a lizard
important you’re not a member well as
soon as you visit our sighting but
that’s something your moon so the only
be you know it was just a set of sake
profile or whatever we use membership
it’s also important from a way for
vendors it makes them feel a little more
comfortable the fact that we’re
discounting because they feel also for
it last in the training member as
opposed just all anybody can really
merely get cheap prices and our sales
people are going to hate us but that’s a
very mild
I’ll but so I would stay Rick could
probably agree with me that membership
aspect may not be so important um I
don’t know teeth what do you feel are
you guys back online you sir we are but
big enough for us hi yes oh yeah here
you can hear hey is never alone we can
hear you we can hear you is that ok so
what you say breaks off so we’re getting
a third what you’re saying ok hey is
membership that’s just a question not
really some people actually might be off
by it and say well maybe it’s not the
costs associated with the membership so
there might be too much at an early
stage of I across the membership though
as can be by offering because it not
kaka dates a lot of fields I mean sign
in and water mix uh sort of the
perceptions are all right Jason got that
one Jason let me just not even through
what’s on ya so how fast and easy is it
it really depends if you if you call us
for if you’re looking for sale training
in Toronto between january first and
january fifteenth and you know what
version you want we could get you result
within five minutes if you search
yourself a good result is yeah it’s very
fast now if you’re calling and we need
to go get you quotes on private training
it could take your three days but the
difference for the client is they’re
gonna have one phone call we’re going to
talk to us 10-15 minutes and we go out
and do all the work so for them it’s
still fast Brust not as fast I’m on it
typically to research a new training
company and find a
when I talked to him to the clients when
we started it would take them between
four and six hours so to be able to have
a 5 or 10-minute conversation with us
and then get what they need a huge huge
benefit am ironic team they probably
only heard a third of what you said yeah
I maybe I’m too loud just go through the
black Jesus I mean the light um after
you sing na boo boo there’s a pic of a
woman with that 10,000 number this is a
woman who had been cast so we went above
and beyond we went and hired a trainer
so that we don’t do you we brought her
in to do private training so she’d get
the learning that she needed it turns
out that she was our 10,000th customer
so Shannon you know what got some
balloons and a little sign and then what
was in we gave her we gave her I wasn’t
here I was on vacation Shannon you know
took picture isn’t it they think they
gave her a big welcome and then we
invited her to sit in on a staff lunch
and learn that happen to be having and
she was so moved by this that she was
brought to tears during the day so I
think that’s delightful and we had
another string speaking press Jason I
can give you ten each one of us on our
team alarm is pretty new bedford then
mark and i can probably give you at
least if the light where we just made
people very happy i got like you know
you’re going to be my go-to source you
know on so we have lots of them all in
perfect perfect
storyville for service from our husky
that does not happen and what do I seem
like worser much I thought you would be
passionate about other companies lack of
service oh I am very cool yeah such
animal yeah I had a friend who we’re big
fan of a company called grocery gateway
here in Toronto and so I’m a bit of a
promoter when I like somebody service I
I promote the hell out of them so I
finally persuaded someone to go out and
truck by grocery he’s talking about me
but this is an Evan story here I’m the
friend and because I mean make
recommendation like to follow up see how
it went so I actually called Nina and
after hell went and she was furious with
them because she had got some poor
produce and hadn’t got a response I take
this stuff so seriously that I got on
the phone with grocery gateway I was in
a lot of trouble with Nina for making
this voucher that that came from Louie
anyway I got us awesome and I explained
to them that I recommend them and
because i recommend them i’m putting my
word on the line and that they’re making
me look like idiots and that they need
to step up and fix the problem now to be
fair we had it just had a big ice storm
and they had like a three-week backlog
of email problems to deal with and they
were trying to work them through but I
didn’t that was a reasonable excuse and
and I and I said that I said you know
what you need to do is you need to be I
know you samples they say need to be the
Zappos of the grocery world and you need
to pick up the phone even to call that
person and you need to take care of them
because I’m the one who referred them
and they called within an hour and took
care of the problem awesome your story
yeah amazing story I love you probably
have a Mormon no no that’s fine what
one’s good to start guess again maybe
Shannon loves a customer service about
as much as I and she probably has a ton
or service stories do you have anything
you want to share Shannon did you hear
me
she probably heard a third official said
I have examples of bad customer service
that relates to Outlook email okay what
do we you can move it on what does move
on chatham you know what Jason you
should connect with Shannon maybe after
I i well just the bandwidth it might be
a strange so I feel the issue we’re
having hey do we engage people yes the
same story about giving that woman and
out like the balloons everything I think
that talks about it so we do engage how
important is social mia i we we think is
very important we we’ve engaged social
media sold solely to have a social
footprint for organic search results and
in the past where we want to change that
now we’ve always outsource that we’ve
brought it in post Anna’s gonna be
heading that up we want to start having
conversation and the challenge we find
social media is we’re not so it’s better
than anything that we sell our own logic
matters in idea buying training and
generic generic information around that
so that’s been a challenge for us and do
we have a sales funnel absolutely we
have a full-blown CRM system Rick who
you met earlier is is in charge of are
responsible for making us bringing that
to us and making us more aware I’m
George traffic flow and I can give you
the exact numbers and I don’t have
thousand eight thousand six thousand
eight thousand visits or session per per
month why would people brag the last
minute why would they bring depends on
the person guys I could use some help on
this question I wouldn’t say some people
are really just you know really done
they really enjoy eels so some people
might brag about the fact that they got
a great deal other people like brag some
company
a sign up for a different vendor than
they were and they got cancelled and
because that other tree other the other
co-worker didn’t go through last minute
training so they might they might brag
if they save their company a ton of
money or time if their training
coordinator so it really depends on
who’s was talking about us um yeah Jason
they might brag but reality is we don’t
have better trainers or better manners
because we’re actually selling for the
ones that exist out there so I don’t
think okay that’s cool so what public
spectacle is last minute training done
we haven’t ya know I spectacle I’ll get
one right here yeah this is it this is
it I missed this a question ideal
traffic flow ideal traffic flow would be
a hundred thousand or more qualified
people visiting our site we would be
pretty happy with that and what word
immediately triggers last minute I’m not
quite sure the question leaving triggers
well like I mean delighted ideally right
like if I hear the word delighted i
should think last minute but I mean
currently sort of like I I’m under the
impression that’s not currently the case
like so like would it be deal or
training like what comes to mind for me
too easy Easy’s of you sec hold if
you’re an end user right but any Shannon
are you guys there like any feedback on
this I don’t know if they’re there is
something we’re going on with their
computer yeah it’s cool this is good
answer good stuff um you know Evan one
thing is or shannon the team if they
actually plug in the laptop and mike
well better but i can’t really leave
here to tell them that haha your mind is
down to its like it’s okay personality
injection social media I wish Shannon
still on okay I’ll talk to her
individually pretty much about that
sheet for for Halloween
we don come she showed up in the morning
with a bag full of costumes awesome
awesome and we and she took pictures and
stuck it all over soon yeah I know what
she mentioned yeah yeah absolutely
mentioned the her title changes and we
don’t use titles of last minute training
you won’t see titles on her you’ll see
her title is never anything to do with
anything so her title is right now
probably the chief purveyor of sweet
potatoes or something like that so she
just makes up whatever she wants and
it’s fun because people who engage her
on it sales are like what what’s that
title what the hell is that makes those
and Sandman she loved lame just say I
had internal changed it I bring in
personality injection social media
definitely definitely she would be
bringing that and it’s important her I
just got her to come in this room come
on over here Shannon because we can’t
hear you for some reason over there so
hey she’s here now what’s up um so we
were just answering this question
probable personality injection in social
media and I was talking about a pictures
of Halloween stuff so yeah the draft and
panna cotta yes and now you want to take
a picture of me and my name sleeping bag
yes so again we weren’t very much of a
personality we were just talking about
doing Christmas mug shots for our
Christmas cards everyone dressing up as
El officer Santa living it is a mug back
and saying we’re on Santa’s naughty list
I love it I love it if you seem to tried
yeah if you seem to try not last minute
training a try last minute training
Gontier pages you’ll notice you know we
have Shannon there and we have a lot of
that and in our in our presentations we
make the corporation’s we have like type
of fun stuff so the last question is
because this is we won’t do it all right
now it’s in the reality is we would
change if we could we would change
everything but uh it’s not a web site
application there’s forth to it it
includes a very since search engine
called swing
search engine and the changing last bit
of training is not easy and that’s why
we’re starting with a single page yeah
makes sense there we might move on to a
slight rebrand yeah I love it that’s my
questions okay all right yeah but you
can stay here with me if you want or you
can go back it’s the teams teams back on
I was thinking guys Martha I see over
there if you were to plug in the
internet cable to computer we might not
have the same issues that you’re having
now with with bandwidth so just throwing
that out there if you wanted to try that
it was something else that you were
referring to Shannon Jamie that you have
for answering my question it was the
social media and bad customer service so
you know what Jason’s gonna do a hangout
I think direct with her talk about that
if that makes yes I am okay I you know
like I’m so much bigger than you cuz
she’s standing here on purpose yes I am
I’m the big talking head tention okay
any other questions any other questions
guys I have one quick question I’m just
curious about the common questions you
get what are the common questions you
get from customers in regards to what a
very strong we get questions we have
common questions you website with horses
with our service I guess it’s something
i can ask in our in our follow-up
meeting i’m just kind of it i guess it
has to do the sales process like as
you’re talking to customers what they
might be asking you what they don’t
understand yeah there’s a pencil
departed sales process so we we just
launched Shannon just lunch this morning
actually I help center on our website
and that help center has a lot of the
commonly asked questions on it from an
operational standpoint I’m not
necessarily from a sales standpoint
or from a corporate sales staff what I
guess okay cool yeah I’m look I’m more
curious about the sales sales proj I
didn’t put in the sales process but we
can talk about it later okay so all this
awkward silence silence it’s like being
on a first date no I could I could I can
talk more man like you want to fill
silence I got lots to say so I mean the
next step is we’re gonna break out into
our own individual hangouts it was there
anything that we needed to get from
lawyers team before we do our little
breakout sessions I think we haven’t
heard from Christina yet and she’s got a
great accent definitely of any mostly
Evan and Jenny maybe later I ask you
questions all right ok now we’ve heard
the exit if you watch Evans videos know
her from one of the videos two of the
videos into the mist yeah okay cool um
so we’ll stop this one here thanks
everybody for kind of coming on and that
I just in this I think next up uh Louie
with what’s the next when you Jason and
Jen are gonna hop up a hangout to talk
about the copy and me are gonna hop I
want to talk about the video and then
after we’re gonna get you and Jenny
doing some training yeah getting the
story out okay Danny to with you what my
inviting Jess what’s that I didn’t hear
that Evan what time what time are you
looking at for me uh so we’re gonna hop
on now to do me you and Christina to
talk about the video okay and then and
then I’m aiming for a half an hour of
that and then and then you and Louis
doing the story the train I now beyond
that with you guys too and maybe
Christina I don’t know what she was
saying but we’ll see what happens there
why for me
all right thank you guys cool by
inviting I don’t know all right I’ll
figure it out
we are having some fun here with an
untruth while ago we did a contest on
our YouTube channel and I said I want to
help an entrepreneur I want to go in and
help his business and bring my team and
not just you know give advice but not to
get in there do some more and so we had
a few people submit and then my team
kind of pick the winner in and Louise
your hand from last minute training not
see a one so we’re here at louies office
I’ve got my a good chunk of my team with
me here we’ve never done a hang out with
everybody like this so it’ll be fun to
see how it goes and hopefully no snafus
um the louie asked us to come on and
they asked was for a landing page a
video and a social media template before
we kind of dive into it maybe Louie you
can tell us a little bit about last
minute training and what you’re all wet
awesome and this is our very first
google setting up too soon we make that
sort of training is ken’s largest market
place for training horses and a lot like
Expedia or Hotwire more priceline as for
travel but we do it for classroom we
meeting rather than there’s a reason
you’re a crazy yeah we worked at
competing vendors and what the job of a
smaller schedules on our website and
people go out here any made fun of the
courses this is a really bad the fish
you can you get your mixes that recycle
is killing me and you guys you guys hear
an echo to it you do everybody but it’ll
any good so you need to mute your only
to meet my money by your time it’s okay
okay awesome okay so starting again last
minute training is the big guy crowd
training classes so we help training
there’s put students into their classes
because one of the most difficult
prospects that a training compass
is filling their spaces and the more
seats they have full the more profitable
they are at the same time we bring for
casual website users we bring a discount
aspect so they can save a little money
the challenge for us is that the real
value we bring is not to the small
individual necessarily but to the
corporations in the corporate market
when corporations work with us they get
the convenience of a single source but
the benefit of an open competitive
market so they can make one to us and
we’ll present them with competitive
schedules competitive right all their
needs to do little research and we fax
information they don’t have we class is
going to cancel if it’s going to run we
get discounts that a lot of them don’t
get that we can pass along we bring a
lot of corporate value and we know for a
fact that we can walk into pretty much
any company that has four or five or
more IT people and bring them some huge
values see I hear the audience breaking
up is that the everybody all right good
so we know we can do that but we aren’t
good at explaining it the other thing is
and I think what how they piqued the
team’s interest most is that our driving
desire is to delight customers the one
value proposition that we don’t talk
about but that drives our DNA is to be
able to please clients so when someone
calls up yes they know are we know we’re
going to give them the best service
serene again industry and we’re going to
bend over backwards to make them happy
and the challenge we’ve had is how to
portray that how to talk about it how to
make people understand that that’s a big
part of what they get it’s not just the
the time savings it’s not just the
costumes the fact that we care about
them when we’re looking for we’re
shopping for them we’re representing
them and if we don’t make it client
happy I don’t think there’s anyone on
screen and our team who doesn’t worry
about it and it’s it’s quite it’s quite
an important part of what we do and
it’ll keep us awake at night so that’s
us in
shall I i hope i’ve covered most of it
unless Shannon Martha Lorna Rick have
something bad I’d like it i think i
think what i want to do because we’re
getting this you have to mute that i
have to mute and all this crazy i think
i’m gonna come over to your side unplug
your boat and we’ll just work off of
your computer i’ll just meet my stuff
here let’s do it yeah the team full of
cheer overly okay uh so why don’t we
talk a little bit about who’s here so
we’ve got a deal who’s doing a lot of
our website design on my team we’ve got
who says second oh the second picture is
me which is an empty chair because I’m
not on my computer we’ve got Janie who
is our media coach and it’s going to
help help you with your getting your
presentation out talking on camera Jen
who is our copy writer who’s going to be
working on the copy for the landing page
Christina who is going to be editing the
video that we put together and working
overnight to create something amazing
manzoor who does a lot of the admin and
marketing work on my team that we’re not
sure what he’s going to do yet but we’ll
figure it out as we go along we’ve got
ray who does a lot of our Twitter work
and marketing is that he’s going to be
doing some work on this project too and
then we’ve got your team so who’s there
you guys would introduce yourselves yeah
go for it yeah
there hi my name is Martha I’m the
operation the team hi I’m Shannon my
title changes weekly I’m Lorne on in
sales I record book academic sales and
that’s a team full so so wise um guys I
might seem what kind of questions do we
have for Louie and his team we’ve got
them for a little bit to try to figure
out how we’re going to help them in this
next 24 hours of crazy what kind of
questions you guys have for them to be
able to figure out you know our
deliverables within the other day it’s a
pretty quiet group everybody’s Mike that
actually why don’t we start with
delighted because we haven’t touched on
that yet so Louise one word is delighted
and be delighted as a team of the
campaign that we’re trying to do so you
want to quickly talk about about that
sure uh whenever I started his whole one
word campaign we met were a follower of
Evan Carmichael so try to understand
what it is and it came clear through
reading customer testimonials and
through our own conversations that
really what people care about is the
service we bring them and what we care
if it’s a service we bring and we want
to stop at nothing short than delight
and we won’t be delighted know when you
talk about training it sounds a little
bit silly too we’re delighted and but
that’s what we’re looking for it and use
a pick my son when he it was I’m bold
the biggest honest face because that
smile and adjoining that happiness that
deal after they bought from us it’s not
a marketing ploy it’s not a it’s not a
tagline it’s really what we strive for
in this really weddin you know makes us
go look at how happy Shannon is just by
having me talk about it she’s smiling so
big
so the problem is be delighted it is
tough the 22 reasons it’s tough one is
that it’s it if you’re talking to
corporate recognize it’s a little bully
sometimes talk about it so you really
have to believe in it to sell it I and
the second thing is the use of the word
delighted we didn’t realize till after
is a movement within the call center
industry that where they try to delight
their customers by doing some Sun a
little bit of negative connotation to
that right now but for us it’s really
everything I don’t know what else you
want me to mention that Evan I’m better
at answering questions and making stuff
up that’s good oh you guys hey hello can
you hear me yeah okay would be one to a
team by having a bad fit is kind of a
website do you want to have for your
business let me try it here la are you
talking about the the page were time of
creating who right now are west side is
very much national research enrich the
messaging on website has not doing be
plotted an event design and we’ve
already started by redesigning just
changing a little bit our color scheme
on our logo and and changing our fonts a
little or defining it we haven’t gone so
far as to change the entire website yet
because it’s a big massive monster
engine so what we’re trying to do is as
we create new stuff new landing pages
use the new branding and building this
be delighted message so the page that we
talked about you guys developing was
really us answering that question of how
do we express to our clients that for us
what’s important for them to be
delighted and that it’s not a tagline
that it’s not a gimmick it’s really in
our DNA and how do we how do we put that
through on our website and so the page
you guys are are creating for us is the
starting point from there everything
will build
and this transcript question challenge
is a good man he fought one google
hangout okay uh Jason it’s not a
question Jason over to you here Jason
yeah Jason might you have an internet
connection okay um Jen did you have
anything that you wanted to ask when
we’re here now yeah yeah definitely I’m
curious about your business model seems
kind of unique do you have any
competitors that kind of do what you do
and if not who you know who are your
competitors are they you know just the
school’s themselves or how does that
work you know what you’re just based on
that question you could come and work
for me already the answer is there is no
competitor to our business in canada in
the united states are a number of other
city in the u.s. in Canada’s pretty
unique its can another chick people
don’t quite understand what we do and at
the end of the day we are competing
directly our schools our vendors is we
call them the airline industry where the
culture is built around selling through
agents the training world has always
been about direct sales so you know we
kind of stuck ourself in as this middle
layer that is not quite understood okay
great and I’m just curious to about your
customers themselves and you said that
you through your surveys they said that
they were really delighted is that like
they’re probably the biggest advantage
you think you have besides the value I
mean is that the thing that makes you
stand out the most well I think the
value problem is everything combined for
corporations but the reason we say that
is because when we reviewed the actual
feedback so the actual comments left
after every class we have students that
we have a student and we give them a
feedback form a fellow then we ask them
about their experience with us and by
and farley talk with the service you
never hear you seldom do you hear oh I
saved a little bit of money
it’s always oh Shannon was amazing she
helped me do this Oh Martha was amazing
she helped me do this so it’s always
about how we help them always with the
service so that’s why we’ve latched on
to that as our key value proposition
because he even though a bunch of other
stuff at the end of the day they talking
about us are talking about that aspect
okay cool and do you have like when
people decide not to go with you I mean
what are the biggest objections that you
have what do you mean it’ll go with this
are there any objections when you go
talk to a business and they decide not
to use you yeah there any you know what
Martha Shannon my brother look better
than I do because they talked to so many
more of the clients typically and it’s
when people don’t understand the pain
that they’re facing that that we can’t
get through them so if I don’t get a lot
of objections I don’t get anyone saying
well that sounds like a stupid service
or there’s no way you’re gonna help me I
get some people saying well you know we
give all our we buy all our money we buy
all our training at one time in one big
pot at we give it to one vendor so we
get this big discount and it’s a bigger
discount that we and there’s a lot of
negatives unfortunately for them to go
along with that and unless they
understand those payments um it’s really
hard to get past that but other than
that objection um we’ve learned can face
every any other objection we’ve had like
some people want to know are they gonna
be treated anything or are they going to
lose anything by booking through ass
it’s usually not about objectives
ejections more about explaining why it’s
to this hear me Oh whoever you are
that’s Jason awesome music fantastic um
oh my god it’s so great to be here I
love you all know me and I asked
questions
gen do that did not answer your question
yeah but it’s a quick follow-up I’m just
curious you said there are negatives to
doing what they do sometimes which is
buying buying you know service all at
once at one school what are those
negatives if you think about it if
you’ve given all your money to school
one of the biggest problems in the
training industry is that classes get
cancelled more than eighty percent of
the IT classes that are scheduled on
anyone’s website get cancelled so if you
have given all your all your budget to
one vendor and and you need it let’s say
you needed a VMware class and they
canceled you’re kind of stuck until the
next one that they run and you know
they’re not going to run one till they
have enough students or as if they had
purchased through us and we have eight
different training vendors who offer
that same course so we would just move
their student over the other thing is
once you’ve piled all your money into
one one vendor I mean you have to spend
it what if you didn’t need to spend it
and we had a big client approached us
once to do business with us because they
had bought three hundred thousand of
training from one particular vendor and
then they needed to spend another budget
money about 50,000 for another project
and they went to that same vendor and
they asked if for that separate project
they could have the same discounts and
for some God knows reason a vendor said
no that because they weren’t buying it
all at once they couldn’t get the
discount was very frustrating for them
so tied into a single vendor you’re kind
of on the hook for doing business the
way they want to do business whether
it’s good for you or not if you think
about training look at the weight loss
industry huh not training but you were
to call the Running Room here in Canada
and Assam but the best way to lose
weight is they’ll tell you it’s to run
we’re call a legacy cycle it’s a takes
in classes the end of the day the render
is going to sell you what’s good for
them or they are the best solution they
have for you as opposed to you know
selling you the best solution for you
and so when you go through me like us
we’re always looking for the best
solution for them not the only solution
we have and hope it works for you
thank you so much hi Louie uh I’m how
long have you been in business ten years
ten years and what are your most popular
classes all I don’t know if ladies and
Rick what are the most popular classes
I’m you are you guys needed any on me
Phil mute it I need ya ya know there’s
still muted you know we go to the office
tops classes plus t know from the higher
and stuff the project management class
was the idea I’m sorry I couldn’t have
one would you say that again well hey
look look kind of the pottery classes
I’ll rephrase what Rick said since we
didn’t quite hear it I think he said you
know Microsoft Office classes technology
classes project management classes if
you think from a delivery of training
standpoint it’s a lot harder to run a
computerized trading session in your
office so clients tend to send employees
out to those types of training classes
and they bring in training for
management skills or soft skills and
more often than not so MS office all the
IT training and in project management
those types of training courses we have
such a breadth that the only way we can
tell you who the best ones are to say
the best our best sellers are the one
that’s not report so it’s really hard
for us an answer that question indeed
it’s mostly technology though right yeah
we’ll see tech knowledge i do if you
want to increase your technology skills
yeah the computer courses right yeah are
our focuses on our outbound focus is on
I like Katrina so that’s what’s
important verticals IT trainers are our
IT people all day and we don’t really
call a book alright can I go next your
grout awesome can you hear me hear you
excellent all right um can you see my
screen share you cannot see your screen
chair but we can hear you oh okay are
you sure yeah yeah there you go okay uh
well I don’t know if the audience can
see it and I’m not sure if you guys can
see it but I’ll just ask my questions so
uh sorry Jade if you guys want to see it
just click basins major bone into your
mainframe four teams gonna see that oh
yeah click my picture click my handsome
face exactly alright so okay so most of
my questions relate to this stuff in
orange can you see that I can see a lot
of questions okay so starting on the
right can you provide us with like
testimonials and logos of clients and
press coverage and stuff like that that
will need to create magic for you uh
logos yes taking metrics in this we
don’t have a ton of social right now so
be tough and testimonials yes press
coverage when we launched we had a lot
we had an entrepreneur magazine we’ve
had a bit not all it’s uh some of the
press coverages is not happy press
coverage it was how do i get write a
story that that they’ll publish so
sometimes you had to pretend we had
problems haha so stories bullets
I guess we can pull a lot of there’s a
lot of good examples we can you video we
have nothing happy photos we see the
photos on our landing pages so we have
photos like that but we don’t have a
whole lot of photos branding I gave Evan
we do have a specific font set and we do
have so absolutely and so that’s those
on the right okay cool um the only thing
to keep in mind i think for for us is
our team super creative so just the more
ammo the better like we’re never gonna
make you look bad unlike the press so so
just as much as you can provide we never
look bad if you can happen all right
well uh i’m most of the right hands by
jason we can we can pull out I got you
know maybe if you need questions of the
team you can you can probably get some
questions a good answers to all of those
all right ah so we’re going to skip the
one in the middle and go over to the
left uh so is membership important on
your site like can people interact with
your site as a as a guest like I know a
membership is something we use to make
you feel welcome and there’s no fee for
membership everyone who buys office is a
member right but I’m not a lizard
important you’re not a member well as
soon as you visit our sighting but
that’s something your moon so the only
be you know it was just a set of sake
profile or whatever we use membership
it’s also important from a way for
vendors it makes them feel a little more
comfortable the fact that we’re
discounting because they feel also for
it last in the training member as
opposed just all anybody can really
merely get cheap prices and our sales
people are going to hate us but that’s a
very mild
I’ll but so I would stay Rick could
probably agree with me that membership
aspect may not be so important um I
don’t know teeth what do you feel are
you guys back online you sir we are but
big enough for us hi yes oh yeah here
you can hear hey is never alone we can
hear you we can hear you is that ok so
what you say breaks off so we’re getting
a third what you’re saying ok hey is
membership that’s just a question not
really some people actually might be off
by it and say well maybe it’s not the
costs associated with the membership so
there might be too much at an early
stage of I across the membership though
as can be by offering because it not
kaka dates a lot of fields I mean sign
in and water mix uh sort of the
perceptions are all right Jason got that
one Jason let me just not even through
what’s on ya so how fast and easy is it
it really depends if you if you call us
for if you’re looking for sale training
in Toronto between january first and
january fifteenth and you know what
version you want we could get you result
within five minutes if you search
yourself a good result is yeah it’s very
fast now if you’re calling and we need
to go get you quotes on private training
it could take your three days but the
difference for the client is they’re
gonna have one phone call we’re going to
talk to us 10-15 minutes and we go out
and do all the work so for them it’s
still fast Brust not as fast I’m on it
typically to research a new training
company and find a
when I talked to him to the clients when
we started it would take them between
four and six hours so to be able to have
a 5 or 10-minute conversation with us
and then get what they need a huge huge
benefit am ironic team they probably
only heard a third of what you said yeah
I maybe I’m too loud just go through the
black Jesus I mean the light um after
you sing na boo boo there’s a pic of a
woman with that 10,000 number this is a
woman who had been cast so we went above
and beyond we went and hired a trainer
so that we don’t do you we brought her
in to do private training so she’d get
the learning that she needed it turns
out that she was our 10,000th customer
so Shannon you know what got some
balloons and a little sign and then what
was in we gave her we gave her I wasn’t
here I was on vacation Shannon you know
took picture isn’t it they think they
gave her a big welcome and then we
invited her to sit in on a staff lunch
and learn that happen to be having and
she was so moved by this that she was
brought to tears during the day so I
think that’s delightful and we had
another string speaking press Jason I
can give you ten each one of us on our
team alarm is pretty new bedford then
mark and i can probably give you at
least if the light where we just made
people very happy i got like you know
you’re going to be my go-to source you
know on so we have lots of them all in
perfect perfect
storyville for service from our husky
that does not happen and what do I seem
like worser much I thought you would be
passionate about other companies lack of
service oh I am very cool yeah such
animal yeah I had a friend who we’re big
fan of a company called grocery gateway
here in Toronto and so I’m a bit of a
promoter when I like somebody service I
I promote the hell out of them so I
finally persuaded someone to go out and
truck by grocery he’s talking about me
but this is an Evan story here I’m the
friend and because I mean make
recommendation like to follow up see how
it went so I actually called Nina and
after hell went and she was furious with
them because she had got some poor
produce and hadn’t got a response I take
this stuff so seriously that I got on
the phone with grocery gateway I was in
a lot of trouble with Nina for making
this voucher that that came from Louie
anyway I got us awesome and I explained
to them that I recommend them and
because i recommend them i’m putting my
word on the line and that they’re making
me look like idiots and that they need
to step up and fix the problem now to be
fair we had it just had a big ice storm
and they had like a three-week backlog
of email problems to deal with and they
were trying to work them through but I
didn’t that was a reasonable excuse and
and I and I said that I said you know
what you need to do is you need to be I
know you samples they say need to be the
Zappos of the grocery world and you need
to pick up the phone even to call that
person and you need to take care of them
because I’m the one who referred them
and they called within an hour and took
care of the problem awesome your story
yeah amazing story I love you probably
have a Mormon no no that’s fine what
one’s good to start guess again maybe
Shannon loves a customer service about
as much as I and she probably has a ton
or service stories do you have anything
you want to share Shannon did you hear
me
she probably heard a third official said
I have examples of bad customer service
that relates to Outlook email okay what
do we you can move it on what does move
on chatham you know what Jason you
should connect with Shannon maybe after
I i well just the bandwidth it might be
a strange so I feel the issue we’re
having hey do we engage people yes the
same story about giving that woman and
out like the balloons everything I think
that talks about it so we do engage how
important is social mia i we we think is
very important we we’ve engaged social
media sold solely to have a social
footprint for organic search results and
in the past where we want to change that
now we’ve always outsource that we’ve
brought it in post Anna’s gonna be
heading that up we want to start having
conversation and the challenge we find
social media is we’re not so it’s better
than anything that we sell our own logic
matters in idea buying training and
generic generic information around that
so that’s been a challenge for us and do
we have a sales funnel absolutely we
have a full-blown CRM system Rick who
you met earlier is is in charge of are
responsible for making us bringing that
to us and making us more aware I’m
George traffic flow and I can give you
the exact numbers and I don’t have
thousand eight thousand six thousand
eight thousand visits or session per per
month why would people brag the last
minute why would they bring depends on
the person guys I could use some help on
this question I wouldn’t say some people
are really just you know really done
they really enjoy eels so some people
might brag about the fact that they got
a great deal other people like brag some
company
a sign up for a different vendor than
they were and they got cancelled and
because that other tree other the other
co-worker didn’t go through last minute
training so they might they might brag
if they save their company a ton of
money or time if their training
coordinator so it really depends on
who’s was talking about us um yeah Jason
they might brag but reality is we don’t
have better trainers or better manners
because we’re actually selling for the
ones that exist out there so I don’t
think okay that’s cool so what public
spectacle is last minute training done
we haven’t ya know I spectacle I’ll get
one right here yeah this is it this is
it I missed this a question ideal
traffic flow ideal traffic flow would be
a hundred thousand or more qualified
people visiting our site we would be
pretty happy with that and what word
immediately triggers last minute I’m not
quite sure the question leaving triggers
well like I mean delighted ideally right
like if I hear the word delighted i
should think last minute but I mean
currently sort of like I I’m under the
impression that’s not currently the case
like so like would it be deal or
training like what comes to mind for me
too easy Easy’s of you sec hold if
you’re an end user right but any Shannon
are you guys there like any feedback on
this I don’t know if they’re there is
something we’re going on with their
computer yeah it’s cool this is good
answer good stuff um you know Evan one
thing is or shannon the team if they
actually plug in the laptop and mike
well better but i can’t really leave
here to tell them that haha your mind is
down to its like it’s okay personality
injection social media I wish Shannon
still on okay I’ll talk to her
individually pretty much about that
sheet for for Halloween
we don come she showed up in the morning
with a bag full of costumes awesome
awesome and we and she took pictures and
stuck it all over soon yeah I know what
she mentioned yeah yeah absolutely
mentioned the her title changes and we
don’t use titles of last minute training
you won’t see titles on her you’ll see
her title is never anything to do with
anything so her title is right now
probably the chief purveyor of sweet
potatoes or something like that so she
just makes up whatever she wants and
it’s fun because people who engage her
on it sales are like what what’s that
title what the hell is that makes those
and Sandman she loved lame just say I
had internal changed it I bring in
personality injection social media
definitely definitely she would be
bringing that and it’s important her I
just got her to come in this room come
on over here Shannon because we can’t
hear you for some reason over there so
hey she’s here now what’s up um so we
were just answering this question
probable personality injection in social
media and I was talking about a pictures
of Halloween stuff so yeah the draft and
panna cotta yes and now you want to take
a picture of me and my name sleeping bag
yes so again we weren’t very much of a
personality we were just talking about
doing Christmas mug shots for our
Christmas cards everyone dressing up as
El officer Santa living it is a mug back
and saying we’re on Santa’s naughty list
I love it I love it if you seem to tried
yeah if you seem to try not last minute
training a try last minute training
Gontier pages you’ll notice you know we
have Shannon there and we have a lot of
that and in our in our presentations we
make the corporation’s we have like type
of fun stuff so the last question is
because this is we won’t do it all right
now it’s in the reality is we would
change if we could we would change
everything but uh it’s not a web site
application there’s forth to it it
includes a very since search engine
called swing
search engine and the changing last bit
of training is not easy and that’s why
we’re starting with a single page yeah
makes sense there we might move on to a
slight rebrand yeah I love it that’s my
questions okay all right yeah but you
can stay here with me if you want or you
can go back it’s the teams teams back on
I was thinking guys Martha I see over
there if you were to plug in the
internet cable to computer we might not
have the same issues that you’re having
now with with bandwidth so just throwing
that out there if you wanted to try that
it was something else that you were
referring to Shannon Jamie that you have
for answering my question it was the
social media and bad customer service so
you know what Jason’s gonna do a hangout
I think direct with her talk about that
if that makes yes I am okay I you know
like I’m so much bigger than you cuz
she’s standing here on purpose yes I am
I’m the big talking head tention okay
any other questions any other questions
guys I have one quick question I’m just
curious about the common questions you
get what are the common questions you
get from customers in regards to what a
very strong we get questions we have
common questions you website with horses
with our service I guess it’s something
i can ask in our in our follow-up
meeting i’m just kind of it i guess it
has to do the sales process like as
you’re talking to customers what they
might be asking you what they don’t
understand yeah there’s a pencil
departed sales process so we we just
launched Shannon just lunch this morning
actually I help center on our website
and that help center has a lot of the
commonly asked questions on it from an
operational standpoint I’m not
necessarily from a sales standpoint
or from a corporate sales staff what I
guess okay cool yeah I’m look I’m more
curious about the sales sales proj I
didn’t put in the sales process but we
can talk about it later okay so all this
awkward silence silence it’s like being
on a first date no I could I could I can
talk more man like you want to fill
silence I got lots to say so I mean the
next step is we’re gonna break out into
our own individual hangouts it was there
anything that we needed to get from
lawyers team before we do our little
breakout sessions I think we haven’t
heard from Christina yet and she’s got a
great accent definitely of any mostly
Evan and Jenny maybe later I ask you
questions all right ok now we’ve heard
the exit if you watch Evans videos know
her from one of the videos two of the
videos into the mist yeah okay cool um
so we’ll stop this one here thanks
everybody for kind of coming on and that
I just in this I think next up uh Louie
with what’s the next when you Jason and
Jen are gonna hop up a hangout to talk
about the copy and me are gonna hop I
want to talk about the video and then
after we’re gonna get you and Jenny
doing some training yeah getting the
story out okay Danny to with you what my
inviting Jess what’s that I didn’t hear
that Evan what time what time are you
looking at for me uh so we’re gonna hop
on now to do me you and Christina to
talk about the video okay and then and
then I’m aiming for a half an hour of
that and then and then you and Louis
doing the story the train I now beyond
that with you guys too and maybe
Christina I don’t know what she was
saying but we’ll see what happens there
why for me
all right thank you guys cool by
inviting I don’t know all right I’ll
figure it out
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