what do you think were some of the keys
to the success of that at the beginning
I think I mean I’m only successful
because of other people I mean in the
early days when I just started my
business I was pretty much convinced it
was me and everyone else was helping me
out you know but I can tell you with
hindsight that the reason my business
took a nosedive because my whole
trajectory changed the first three years
of my business were fun and exciting and
we sort of beat the statistic that you
know the overwhelming number of us
supposed to go out of business and I
didn’t and my fourth year was very
difficult my fourth year is very
different and that’s where you know when
you’re running on force of personality
where you you’re chief cook and bottle
washer you’re making every sales call
you’re making you’re doing the the
product you’re making everything you’re
offering the service you’re doing
everything at some point you reach a
level where especially if you’ve
survived for a few years that you now
have to ask other people for help so you
have to hire people right and the stress
of letting go when or trying to do
everything which is demoralizing for
people who you bring on and then needing
structure you know what is the actual
structure of the business it’s not just
you doing everything and that’s where I
failed I was terrible at structure I
continued to be terrible in structure
and and really became very very
difficult for me to grow my business
became very very stressful and I really
hit a dark patch and that’s when I
learned the most valuable lesson I think
of my career which is I don’t have to
know all the answers and when I don’t I
don’t have to pretend that I do mmm and
a willingness to admit that I needed
help that I didn’t know I knew this but
I didn’t know that allowed me to seek
help and accept it when it was offered
and I realize I’m we’re all surrounded
by people who are plenty willing to help
us but because so many of us spend so
much of our time lying hiding and faking
people don’t offer us their help because
they just don’t think we need it
yeah because we’ve presented ourselves
in this picture that we’re good to go
and so we leave ourselves by ourselves
it’s our own fault and so when I was
able to stop lying hiding and faking and
was able to say really good at this
really bad at that and it wasn’t a
depressing thing it was just like an
admission
people came up oh love it go oh my I
could totally help you with that and
that’s when my real trajectory took off
was when I realized that it’s it’s a
team sport and I I have to be really
good at the thing that I’m good at and I
have to be willing to help those succeed
at what they’re good at and allow others
to help me succeed as well at what I’m
good at and so it’s that wonderful
wonderful sort of relationship that we
all have each other where we commit
ourselves to seeing each other succeed
that is the reason I find myself where I
am today Wow so at that point you just
you discovered that businesses all
function with three things what we do
how we do it and why we do it yeah so
this started this whole wide phenomenon
that you launched but was that like you
sitting there writing on a napkin was
this you decided to start reading books
I mean what how did it start you know it
always sounds like it’s an invention or
like there was some sort of revolution
and you know he said if you hit your
head on the bathtub and you have that
it’s not like that
these ideas like all good ideas are
evolutionary and I was tinkering with I
was already tinkering with something
that looked like the Golden Circle
simply to explain why some marketing
worked in some marketing didn’t and it
was really good to help me sort of start
a PowerPoint presentation but it was
basically there and it didn’t you know
as I learned more I started to learn
about the biology of human
decision-making and that set off a spark
that oh my goodness this is much bigger
than marketing this is our lives this is
our careers this is biology this is how
we make decisions that’s when I realized
the power of what I had sitting on the
shelf and then I applied the scientific
sort of methodology which is I had this
theory let’s test it let’s wait for the
theory to fail and so people would come
to me and say will this work and you
know big business I’m like I don’t know
let’s try will it work in this industry
I don’t know let’s try it will that work
in politics I don’t know let’s try and
it kept working and that’s when I
realized it was really something very
very special so people start asking you
to share help them figure out their why
and it gets bigger and bigger was when
did you decide alright I’ve got to sit
and write this down yeah and do you
consider yourself a writer I mean did
you where you already write
lots of things and tell us about your
process not a writer never imagined
being a writer never fantasized about
being a writer but as I said other
people who believed what I believed I
got very very very good at talking about
what I believed and stopped completely
talking about what I did
people come to say what do you do and I
wouldn’t say what I did I would tell
them what I believe and literally I
started practicing the things that I
eventually wrote about which is I
started with why and when you do that it
attracts people who believe what you
believe and so the way the book came
about is a friend of mine who knew what
I believed and that was sharing my ideas
with her I said you have to write this
down and I shrugged and she said I’ll
introduce you to an agent and I shrugged
and then I had an agent and somebody
else said I wanted to use you to an
editor friend I had and I was trying to
said okay and the editor talked to me he
said I wanted reduce you to a publisher
so my meeting with the publisher
actually wasn’t set up by my agent and I
ended up having a 29 minute meeting with
Adrian Zack Heim who’s the god of
business publishing he’s the original
publisher from good to great he came up
with the title and everything Wow and
I’m in this twenty nine minute meeting
with him and three days later they
offered me a book deal and I literally I
never presented myself as anything that
I was not and I just would tell people
what I believed and I and what I
imagined the world could be based on
this little idea and people who believe
what I believe wanted a help and so he
helped me by offering me the opportunity
to to share my idea at a much broader
scale he absolutely took a bet on me I
was an unknown personality I didn’t have
much of a platform which is what they
was tell you need and he took a bet Wow
so I’m very very very lucky and very
very grateful to him for that bet and I
mean a great bet to take obviously I
mean it’s just it’s worldwide I mean
anyone has I feel like I haven’t come
across anyone who hasn’t heard of it or
doesn’t know everybody knows one of the
most popular TED Talks of all time I
mean just congratulations thank you but
so what’s interesting is you’re why tell
everyone your why to inspire people to
do the things that inspire them so
together we can change our world
– love it but I and what about people
who are like that’s great to have a why
but like we have to do work for example
there’s a lot of grunt work there’s jobs
that anyone would hate doing what about
what did what do you say to them so if
you there’s two questions there I don’t
believe the Y is the end-all be-all
when I talk about the Golden Circle
there were three levels to it what we do
how we do it and why we do it right the
reason I talk about the why is because
that’s the piece that’s always missing
because everybody knows what they do
some people know how they do it the
things that you think make you stand out
from the competition you’re
differentiating value proposition
whatever II want to call it but very
very few people if ever think about or
talk about why they do what they do and
my point was is that you cannot achieve
or find long term success or fulfillment
unless all three pieces are there so of
course of course the heavy lifting
happens if you all you have is y and no
work then you live on a hippie commune
everything’s kumbaya and you don’t get
any work done which is also very
unfulfilled after some time and no if
all you do is what and how then you have
a job rather than a calling you know
it’s more it is grunt work as opposed to
something that matters Y contextualizes
the importance of all of that hard
lifting you know if you work very very
hard for something you hate or don’t
believe and it’s called stress if you
work very very hard for something you do
believe in or love it’s called passion
and that’s what the Y does if fuels it
gives you the energy to get all that
heavy lifting done now you said
something else they’re just you said
there are just jobs people don’t like or
something today there are some jobs no
one would like yeah that’s just not true
I think that we have this sort of very
ethnocentric sense of our own like well
clearly people like things like working
in tech and how can anybody like working
as a janitor or something and it’s
completely nonsense it’s really
judgmental actually of us to even think
that way because again because I know
because I know so many high tech people
and bankers and white-collar and you
know movie business and glamour glamour
who hate their lives hate their jobs
hate their colleagues hate their bosses
and need pills to sleep okay
I know plenty
them their superficial glamorous
wonderful lives and I know plenty of
people who work in factories with their
hands and they stand at a machine all
day and are grateful for the company
they work for and they love their
colleagues and they feel cared for and
they love coming to work because they
feel like they’re contributing to
something bigger than themselves it has
nothing to do with the work they do it
has to do with the reason they come to
work see why it started a movement
obviously but let’s get back to you so
you start to see I’m assuming that it’s
catching on like wildfire and you get
this book deal and now people want you
to speak all the time did did you change
your business model or sell your old
business or did you just transition
because you were doing marketing
consultant yeah so the marketing
business happened three years prior so I
had the marketing business lost my
passion for what I was doing that crisis
mm-hmm
was the spark that helped me find this
thing called the why and then define the
Golden Circle and I would fall in love
with this idea and would literally go to
my friend’s apartments and give talks to
their friends about this thing called
the Y and I would help people find their
Y for a hundred bucks on the side that’s
how it began okay and people just kept
in kept asking me to speak and I kept
saying yes so I was actually giving the
talk for about three years before any
book or TED talk and that’s when I
abandoned my marketing business because
I realized when I realized I could make
a living doing this that people will pay
me to speak and will also invite me to
come in consult I guess but as it
started to gain popularity then the
question was what do I want to do and I
made the conscious decision not to build
a consultancy because I didn’t want for
me spreading the message was much more
important
so I sort of took on the the the
identity of a sort of a modern-day
preacher I had a purpose I had a cause I
had a calling
I had a something I believed in that I
was gonna preach I was gonna share it I
was gonna stand on my bully pulpit and I
was gonna look for followers to help me
spread this spread this gospel I mean
that’s really the the angle I took and
that’s what we’ve done and the reason
the message has spread is because that’s
what we decided we would do I could have
become a consultant and made a nice
little nest egg but this seemed like the
the right thing to do I’d rather more
people find a job they love and feel
inspired when they wake up every day not
just a few people I could to help so
when you’re that passionate and that
committed was it I feel like it would be
interesting or maybe challenging or
difficult to bring on team members how
so
well because it’s like your baby I mean
everyone’s business is their baby so a
lot of people have questions about
hiring but what what were your what’s
your advice for starting to build a team
I think the Divis between an
entrepreneur who cannot achieve scale
which is different from success you can
make a ton of money but that’s not scale
it’s just money right versus being able
to cross that little chasm and find that
tipping point where it can really gain
scale is the ability to let go you know
I’d been chief cook and bottle washer I
had done every job and so when I started
needing help because I could no longer
do every job I didn’t have the time or
the energy I wanted to tell everybody
how I used to do it and have them do it
that way that’s that’s that’s about like
assigning tasks that’s not a sending
responsibility that’s not letting go and
it was a slow uncomfortable process it’s
not like tomorrow morning I’m just gonna
let go you know it doesn’t it doesn’t it
doesn’t work that way it’s a very
uncomfortable process
I assume you you use the analogy of this
is your baby I assume it’s something
like when your kids grow up and leave
the house or when they become old enough
to drive and they gain some independents
like we’d like to tell them what to do
what to eat when to go to bed when to
have a shower but you kind of lose that
and some parents struggle with that and
it creates tension in the relationship
with their kids and some parents slowly
embrace that their kids are adults and
it’s the same kind of transition where
you people come on and you realize that
they care and that they’re smart and
that they’re good at what they do and
that they want to learn and so they want
to do things they’ve never done before
also they don’t have to be experts in
everything and you let go a little bit
and they do an amazing job and you let
go and amazing a little bit late and
then they you let go a little bit and
they screw it all up and you say okay
try again and the more they feel that
you care about their success the more I
started to feel um that I cared about
the success of those around me it became
very easy for me to simply say just take
care of this and whatever happens is
fine in every decision you make I love
you know yeah which this is kind of
easily segwaying us into your next book
but before we go there I was listening
to I’m sure you’re familiar with Liz
Gilbert and I was listening to her in an
interview and she was talking about
after the massive success of Eat Pray
Love kind of like a little bit of an
identity crisis you know did you have
that after what became I mean your book
became what it is so it’s funny you
bring up Elizabeth Gilbert because her
TED talk actually helped me not go
through that so people would come up to
me and say how are you gonna do another
TED talk as successful as the first one
and the answer was I’m not that was an
accident I won the lottery like I won
the lottery and I can’t plan to win the
lottery again like that’s not how it
works and the success of start with Y
again like I can’t plan that like
there’s nothing you can’t plan for
something that was an accident
so I had actually completely divorced
myself of any notion that I had to
produce something that was better or
more successful than the first work and
so when I set out to write leaders eat
last the only goal was to share every
lesson that I’ve been learning on the
topic of trust and cooperation and do
the best job I can of communicating
those ideas with literally no concern or
thought where there would be more
successful than the first one I didn’t
mind I didn’t care and I feel that way
about all my work which is you know the
Y has sort of gone off and done its own
thing and and it’s like my kid leaving
the house I’m like I’m just so proud so
tell us just about your actual writing
process do you sit in a room for a
certain chunk every day or you know how
do you actually get the book done a very
very envious of writers with discipline
you know who treat it like a job from
9:00 to 5:00 or set a goal every day of
writing you know whatever a thousand
words or 2,000 words and they do that I
that’s not my process my process is best
defined as days of guilt and
self-loathing
punctuated by hours of
your brilliance and the problem is I
don’t know when those hours will strike
and so I will sit at home and watch TV
and hate myself for not getting any work
done and and I won’t go out for dinner
in case one of these things strikes and
then I sit at home and watch TV and say
I should have gone out for dinner then I
would see my friends and then the next
night I got for dinner and then I have
an idea and I’m riding on tablecloths
and it’s it’s more of a creative mad
process than it is a disciplined process
I feel like a lot of people can relate
to that a lot of writers probably yeah
I’m okay with it like I don’t pretend
that I have the discipline I don’t like
sit at a desk and stare at a screen or
write I can’t write you know some
writers they can write two thousand
words a day even if it’s junk I can’t do
that if I’m writing I have to like what
I’m writing I don’t like what I’m
writing then I stop writing
interesting now your second book leaders
eat last if you guys haven’t heard the
story that prompted that you told it so
brilliantly to marie forleo so i don’t
want to take time on that today but i’ll
link it you guys go watch it because I
was like on the edge of my seats of this
whole your whole journey through
Afghanistan and just take note of the
way he tells stories okay for anybody
who’s the speaker or you’re working on
your writing because I was just riveted
so then after in that book I I kind of
want you to just touch on what you feel
like our leadership challenges for
people who are still very small so five
employees ten employees because a lot of
times you know they’re growing so fast
they’re trying to keep up there’s no
culture to speak of
there’s nothing what’s your advice to
them so when we’re junior or when we’re
solo we only really have to be good at
whatever it is we claim we’re offering
like that’s pretty much it you know and
as you gain seniority or as you have to
bring on more people you have to go
through a transition you don’t have a
choice some people make it quickly some
people make it slowly and some people
will never make it at all which is you
now go through the transition where
you’re no longer responsible for the job
you’re now responsible for the people
who are responsible for the job right so
I love talking to CEOs and say you know
what’s your priority say my customer I’m
like you haven’t talked to a customer in
10 years yeah you’re not responsible
with a customer you’re responsible for
the people who are responsible for the
customer you know there’s not a senior
exec
on the planet that’s responsible for the
results zero they’re responsible for the
people who responsible for the results
and so we work so hard and get advanced
degrees on how to do the job but really
there’s very little out there to train
us to do the job of leadership which is
to let go of the results and take care
of the people who are responsible for
results now when you have a small
business you actually have to do both
where you do have responsibility for the
job because you’re still in the game
but now you also have responsibility for
people and their and their jobs and so
you have to dance that line and if you
do too much of one then the thing
collapses and if you do too much of the
other then you’re you’re a micromanager
and everybody wants you out of their way
and everybody hates coming to work for
you and the thing collapses and so you
really have to find that balance and as
the organization grows what you’ve been
doing is practicing and as the
organization grows and you stop doing
the jobs you used to do you now take
care of the people who do the jobs so
you know you become a much better leader
but it’s a it’s a process it’s a
transition it’s an education it’s not an
event it’s not like today I’m a leader I
hired you know I’ve got five people I’m
a leader it’s nice it smells work that
way so but it takes unbelievable it took
a lot of hard work it takes a lot of
energy leadership is the most it is more
difficult in the business right because
you can back plan something or you can
figure out how to fill your pipeline but
how you deal with the whims and
insecurities and egos and ambitions of a
human being who no matter how great they
are they have a fight with their spouse
or there’s a family tragedy or they
didn’t get enough sleep and everything’s
horrible right you know like they come
to work with all of that stress and
anxiety and human beings are messy it’s
I wish it were so neat and so it’s like
leadership is really really hard work
and I equate leadership to it’s like
everyone to parenting where everyone on
the planet has the capacity to be a
parent it doesn’t mean everybody should
be a parent and it doesn’t mean
everybody wants to be a parent
leadership is the same everybody has the
capacity to be a leader doesn’t mean
that everybody wants to be a leader and
it doesn’t mean that everybody should be
a leader so if you don’t want to be a
parent don’t have kids
if you don’t want to be a leader then
don’t push your career to have people
report to you because you then don’t
have a choice like if you accidentally
have a kid congratulations you are now a
parent right yep
you know so if you find yourself in a
leadership position you either give it
up to somebody doesn’t say and I know
plenty of entrepreneurs who do that they
bring in presidents to run their
companies and they like to be the
creative director they like to be in the
weeds because they’re good at it and
they don’t want to run the organization
they don’t want to lead the people right
it’s hard mm-hmm and you stop getting to
do the stuff that you like doing anyway
you have to like leadership so it’s an
education and the best leaders I know
like truly remarkable leaders who’ve
some of them have achieved amazing
things and they command unbelievable
love and loyalty from their people they
get all the theories that I talk about
they get it they do it I learn from them
none of them consider themselves experts
they all consider themselves students
and when anybody says to you you know
I’m an expert at this I think I know
what I’m doing run run run
yeah it’s the ones who understand that
every everyday as a leader is an
education and so all the leaders I know
talk about leadership
look we sit down and we talk about it
like I want to hear what they’re doing
then when you were time doing like we
talk about it because we’re learning
right I may be in a more advanced
student than some but I’m still a
student right and so when you have that
perspective you show up every single day
as a student have a student’s mind a
student’s mentality and so your constant
like you watch the news or you watch a
press conference or you meet someone and
you’re constantly paying attention to
how they answered something or how they
did something agreeing and disagreeing
because you’re in student mode if you’re
an expert mode you’ve just ignored the
world around you so all the best leaders
I know see it as a constant every day
education and a daily practice student
mode I like that student mode so now you
are a leader and you have a team play
one on TV what is the average day like
for simon Sinek
oh I wish I had an average day actual
no I don’t have an average day my days
are die I’d like to say that I want one
of these I love my job is I don’t know
what I do every Monday I don’t really
have a sense of routine there are lots
of things that I have to do and
sometimes things go in spurts so
sometimes I’m on the road sometimes I’m
working directly with organizations or
leaders in the resort within those
organizations sometimes I’m writing I
have a strategic partnership with EUI
Ornstein Young where they’re taking my
IP and we’re developing it into products
and services so we can give it to more
people so that they can implement it
more easily and we’re I’m actually a
part of something that they do every
year called sgf which in the
entrepreneur world is very very well
known I love that kind of stuff so I
have responsibilities there as well
we’re developing stuff together which is
fun so there’s no there’s no there’s no
routine but like anybody else my
struggles are the same that sometimes I
have I have what I call very
productively unproductive days where
there’s something I have to get done and
I get done 15 other things but not the
thing right do you have any daily
rituals or habits that you think have
helped in your success I mean as I said
before I’m very good about asking for
help of bouncing ideas of someone you
know even if I’m you know rarely away a
hundred percent sure about but even if
I’m a 90 percent sure about something
I’ll call up somebody on my team be like
so this is what’s happening this is what
I’m thinking of doing and sometimes just
me getting to say it out loud is like
okay no that’s actually a bad idea yeah
you know so I’m very good about using
sounding boards even for things that I’m
fairly confident about so I do that a
lot it’s the basics I think you got to
get a good night’s sleep I think you you
got to exercise you know if you don’t if
you think one of the big things I
changed my life was I prioritized
exercise so exercise for me goes in my
schedule like a meeting and too many of
us treat exercise as something malleable
or flexible where oh my god I have this
amazing opportunity to meet with this
person I’ll move my gym time I don’t
like my gym time is
in my schedule and if somebody says can
I meet you at 3 o’clock or later you
know six o’clock whatever whenever I put
it in sometimes you did the middle today
I go I’m sorry I’m busy that time they’d
have to know what I’m doing
right I’m busy so can we do it tomorrow
yeah and I’m really my I really started
things started to may get a lot easier
for me when I prioritized my body and my
health
equally as my my my work so that’s a big
one and I’m really good about separating
from my telephone and from from email my
phone doesn’t go busy being buzzed beep
for every notification I keep my phone
ring or off almost all the time I don’t
know when I get emails I’ll check later
like it doesn’t my email alert has
actually turned off so the only way I
find out if I got an email is if I go
check my phone won’t buzz and that’s on
purpose because I don’t want to
Pavlovian response you know somebody hit
reply all and I got buzzed I go like
this and I thought and it didn’t even
matter and I interrupted something that
I actually was focused on and I broke
that concentration yeah I’m really good
about putting my phone away and working
not having it on the desk I’m really
good about going out with my friends or
even for meetings not putting the phone
on the desk not putting the phone on the
table engaging with somebody fully and
it’s that practice where people are much
more likely to want to help you if they
feel that you do something as simple as
look in the eye and give them your full
attention as opposed to one of these
deals uh-huh you’re totally or my
favorite one is the phone rings they go
I’m not gonna get this it’s like oh
you’re so magnet yeah so so I’m really
good at prioritizing health I don’t
believe in pulling all-nighters
I just don’t believe in it the quality
of the work can’t be that good anyway
you know for talk in the morning I’d
rather get at least some sleep and then
wake up early and work you know and and
and really prioritizing the
relationships I have with other people
whether it’s whether it’s a first-time
meeting or an old friend
I’m very good about putting my phone
away do you feel like you had to give
anything up to serve this giant movement
I’ve given up a lot and always
consciously
the decisions were made by accident um
you know when you when I made the
decision that I was going to spread this
message I knew that it would come as a
sacrifice to my my personal life I knew
that I knew that going in you know when
you’re always on the road going on a
date and goes great and you go oh my god
I had so much fun are you free in six
weeks
yeah your honor your undateable I there
was a sacrifice there I knew that and
there was a point at which I was
sacrificing my health have fixed that
one but yeah there were sacrifices I’ve
made I regret none of them you know you
make value judgments and you can pick
one you know you can’t have it all yeah
and so if you’re gonna choose this you
can have to give up that so if you want
more time you might have to give up some
of the money if you want more money then
you’re gonna have to give up some of the
time like you know yeah and sometimes I
play with a juggle with those you know
looking back what’s the best part and
the worst part of your journey so far
well the best part is the journey I mean
this is the most exciting amazing
wonderful thing that I’ve ever done it
my life is surreal there’s not a single
thing that I’m doing or have done that I
could have imagined that I would do I’m
grateful for every day and when
everybody says oh my god you’ve done so
much my answer has been the same for the
past ten years which is it’s just the
tip of the iceberg you know I’m I’m
trying to change the way in which
business is run I’m trying to undo all
of the theories that were popularized in
the 80s and 90s you know shareholder
supremacy putting the interests of an
external constituent ahead of the people
inside your company that’s like a coach
prioritizing the the desires of the fans
over the desires of the players that’s
what that is well we have to sell
tickets
sure destroy your team and appease a fan
for a year or two with a couple
promotions right so that’s what
shareholder supremacy is that was a
theory that was proposed in late 1970s
the use of mass layoffs to balance the
books we’re not talking life-and-death
situations here you know balancing the
books for the year you know that was a
that did not exist in the United States
prior to the 1980s so they have all of
these theories rank and yank terrible
terrible destroys the inside of a
corporate culture or pitting people
against each other I guess I like to get
my people to compete
no no compete with not compete against
you know there’s all of these theories
that were popularized in the 80s and 90s
all in the name of selfish desires that
have really done long-term damage to our
economy to the way we feel about our
jobs the way we feel about each other
the way you feel about ourselves
depression is massively on the rise in
our company if any company goes look at
their that without what they’re spending
on health care you know from you know
they can companies can see what drugs
they’re buying and their health care
plans you’ll see that there is a
precipitous rise and we have a
precipitous rise exponential rise in in
depression drugs in fact it’s the number
one thing that we’re treating in
companies so I’m trying to completely
undo an entire philosophy of how we do
business that is the norm in the United
States and other places in the world
like we don’t even think that anything
is bad when layoffs are no they
announced layoffs it’s awful right so no
matter how much I’ve accomplished I
stand at the foot of my of the mountain
oh my god oh my god I’m so much more to
do yeah and I love that I guess the
worst part is that what is the worst
part I mean I have bad days and but
that’s not I mean like you get through
those and I have days where I think I
can’t do it but you get through those
and I don’t know it’s pretty it’s pretty
cool that’s an awesome answer I don’t
know yeah I’m sorry I wish I had
something so if you had to give what
your number one piece of advice for
someone who is has a message and they’re
trying to spread it to the world what’s
your number one piece of advice for them
so spread it like what are you waiting
for do it you know I get this question
sometimes you know I want to be a public
speaker how do I start
speak I don’t know you know like it’s
not about the problem is are you
speaking because you have a message to
spread are you speaking because you want
to be on Ted or become famous or get
paid lots of money to stand on the stage
like what’s your motivation like if your
motivation is to be on Ted or be famous
I got nothing
I have no idea how you do that right but
if you have a message to spread the rule
is talk to anyone who will listen
remember I started just talking for free
in the living rooms of my friends that’s
how I started yeah and somebody said
will you come to my company and they
went mookie and they paid me a couple
hundred bucks you know and the first
time somebody ever offered me any sort
of real money I didn’t realize this was
an industry that I could accept the
money so I gave it to charity like they
gave me a big check and you know because
that’s what I thought you did right so I
didn’t realize I could make a living so
I even today I don’t define myself as a
speaker I speak and if I stop speaking
I still have an identity in other words
my identity comes from my Y my identity
comes from my message my identity comes
from the thing that I want to talk about
that I want to write about I’m an author
technically because I happen to have
written a couple of books but do I cease
to have an identity because if I never
write another book again what if I never
give another speech what happens my
identity I’m fine
so I’ve never wanted to be a speaker or
an author I just want to spread a
message and I am completely agnostic as
to how I spread that message right so if
you want to do these things then you
have to wake up to do that thing not to
be someone or be that thing you know so
the question is what is the message
you’re trying to spread and if you
believe displaying that message your
passion will show through and if your
passion shows through because you
believe desperately in that message
people will invite you because they’re
attracted to your passion and they like
your message and if your practice and
you become clearer and more articulate
and how you explain your ideas and other
people go I understand I understand so
clearly I can tell someone your idea
without you in the room
then what happens to is your message
starts to spread without you yeah and
then down somebody calls you up and says
will you come and deliver your message
that I’ve heard about over here and you
go I would love to thank you and the
thing grows we’ll be back in just a
second with fast facts man there is so
much we can learn from that interview
but here are my keys to success from my
interview with simon Sinek number one be
honest with yourself and
CENTAC with others he had to realize
what he was good at and what he wasn’t
good at he says once he started to get
honest and just spread his message with
others things started to take off he
didn’t try to build a platform or become
an author he just started to share his
ideas and focus on what he was good at
number two be patient and persistent
cynic started really small sharing his
message in friends apartments for a
hundred bucks on the side he just
started sharing his message and he says
if you want to create a movement just
get up and start sharing your message
but of course you have to consider why
you want to start a movement and realize
that it takes a lot of time and
sacrifice he gave up a lot in his
personal life in order to spread this
message so quickly and so powerfully
number three be passionate focused and
passion focused again we have to talk
about why if we’re talking about simon
Sinek he literally started practicing
the things he wrote about he would
introduce himself by talking about what
he believed in instead of what he did he
says if you just start sharing and
practice how to share your passion
clearly other people will start to get
on board and it will begin to grow
number four be willing to let go and
keep learning he says that the
entrepreneurs that reach a tipping point
realized that they have to let go and
truly delegate and be able to tell their
team members that they can make their
own decisions and that they’ll be fine
with the decisions that they make
and part of letting go is admitting you
don’t have all the answers he says that
the best leaders he knows are constantly
in student mode and that learning is a
daily practice for them number five be
practical be present and stay grateful
he says to focus on the simple things
when it comes to your health like diet
exercise getting a lot of sleep then he
says focus on being present he puts away
his phone he engages with people and
lastly he called himself lucky multiple
times even though he worked for three
years on his idea before starting to get
any sort of traction with his book deal
or his speaking gigs he was just sharing
his message with people in their home
this is someone who worked hard to start
sharing his message and instead he says
he got lucky that is a sign of someone
who’s grateful and he says he’s living
his dream and is grateful for every day
and we are back for fast facts just try
and answer as quickly as you can okay
without really thinking about okay all
right
what is the wallpaper on your phone it’s
a photograph it’s a it’s an art it’s I’m
and I’m an art nut so it’s a photograph
of a girl in a pool but it’s the broom
the pool is decorated like it’s a house
it’s hard to explain okay so it’s okay
probably a restaurant something nearby
yeah Scrabble or charades Oh Scrabble
hands down favorite book a man’s search
Wonderland chocolate or vanilla
chocolate one word you’re guilty of
saying too often probably the word
inspire who is the last person that you
called or texted my sister what was the
last awkward situation you were in pick
a day I mean last vacation you took
Bahamas favorite hobby photography
coffee or tea tea early bird or night
owl it’s changed I used to be a night
out now still I’m like a hybrid kind of
a hybrid winter or summer winter wine or
beer wine pancakes or waffles
don’t care guilty pleasure TV show Game
of Thrones but I don’t feel guilty
yeah neither marie forleo says the same
thing and I also I agree favorite snack
I like those I like those pop corners
you know they call they like the popcorn
things sweet thing
there’s a good interesting I’ll try and
Google app for the rest of us and link
to whatever it is you’re talking about
good favorite cereal I’m I like I’m a
I’m a syrup I have many boxes of cereal
and I
myself and so there’s no favorite cereal
it’s the art of mixing cereal you know
is the same way Seth Godin Siri ologist
is what I am yeah I mix cereals there’s
usually raisins in there there’s usually
maybe sometimes there’s fruit I’m like
I’m going through a goat’s milk phase
right now
interesting yeah what is your favorite
music right now I have an eclectic taste
in music I mean this is embarrassing
the the Hamilton soundtrack I mean yeah
yeah I wondered if you were gonna say
that because it’s like a phenomenon and
I love that you just like to the point
where my friends are like okay you can
shut up now
amazing biggest pet peeve I got a bunch
of those I hate it when I mean how
myopic are we talking here I hate open
cabinets when people leave cabinets open
like I walk into someone’s house and
cabinets are up and I will go and I just
like close all their kitchen cabinets
like don’t come over it makes me it
makes me really uncomfortable that is
just on to the next task
no no so is mine like I’ll open the
cabinet take some that close the cabinet
open a cabinet take something out of
clothes again yeah I get that I don’t
know where it comes from but it’s true
what were you doing right before this
interview I was working with the
wonderful people at ey figuring out what
we’re gonna do at sgf and what will you
be doing after this interview I don’t
know actually
all right honest I don’t know well again
thank you so much this has been
incredible it’s been an awesome time thank you for fitting us in
to the success of that at the beginning
I think I mean I’m only successful
because of other people I mean in the
early days when I just started my
business I was pretty much convinced it
was me and everyone else was helping me
out you know but I can tell you with
hindsight that the reason my business
took a nosedive because my whole
trajectory changed the first three years
of my business were fun and exciting and
we sort of beat the statistic that you
know the overwhelming number of us
supposed to go out of business and I
didn’t and my fourth year was very
difficult my fourth year is very
different and that’s where you know when
you’re running on force of personality
where you you’re chief cook and bottle
washer you’re making every sales call
you’re making you’re doing the the
product you’re making everything you’re
offering the service you’re doing
everything at some point you reach a
level where especially if you’ve
survived for a few years that you now
have to ask other people for help so you
have to hire people right and the stress
of letting go when or trying to do
everything which is demoralizing for
people who you bring on and then needing
structure you know what is the actual
structure of the business it’s not just
you doing everything and that’s where I
failed I was terrible at structure I
continued to be terrible in structure
and and really became very very
difficult for me to grow my business
became very very stressful and I really
hit a dark patch and that’s when I
learned the most valuable lesson I think
of my career which is I don’t have to
know all the answers and when I don’t I
don’t have to pretend that I do mmm and
a willingness to admit that I needed
help that I didn’t know I knew this but
I didn’t know that allowed me to seek
help and accept it when it was offered
and I realize I’m we’re all surrounded
by people who are plenty willing to help
us but because so many of us spend so
much of our time lying hiding and faking
people don’t offer us their help because
they just don’t think we need it
yeah because we’ve presented ourselves
in this picture that we’re good to go
and so we leave ourselves by ourselves
it’s our own fault and so when I was
able to stop lying hiding and faking and
was able to say really good at this
really bad at that and it wasn’t a
depressing thing it was just like an
admission
people came up oh love it go oh my I
could totally help you with that and
that’s when my real trajectory took off
was when I realized that it’s it’s a
team sport and I I have to be really
good at the thing that I’m good at and I
have to be willing to help those succeed
at what they’re good at and allow others
to help me succeed as well at what I’m
good at and so it’s that wonderful
wonderful sort of relationship that we
all have each other where we commit
ourselves to seeing each other succeed
that is the reason I find myself where I
am today Wow so at that point you just
you discovered that businesses all
function with three things what we do
how we do it and why we do it yeah so
this started this whole wide phenomenon
that you launched but was that like you
sitting there writing on a napkin was
this you decided to start reading books
I mean what how did it start you know it
always sounds like it’s an invention or
like there was some sort of revolution
and you know he said if you hit your
head on the bathtub and you have that
it’s not like that
these ideas like all good ideas are
evolutionary and I was tinkering with I
was already tinkering with something
that looked like the Golden Circle
simply to explain why some marketing
worked in some marketing didn’t and it
was really good to help me sort of start
a PowerPoint presentation but it was
basically there and it didn’t you know
as I learned more I started to learn
about the biology of human
decision-making and that set off a spark
that oh my goodness this is much bigger
than marketing this is our lives this is
our careers this is biology this is how
we make decisions that’s when I realized
the power of what I had sitting on the
shelf and then I applied the scientific
sort of methodology which is I had this
theory let’s test it let’s wait for the
theory to fail and so people would come
to me and say will this work and you
know big business I’m like I don’t know
let’s try will it work in this industry
I don’t know let’s try it will that work
in politics I don’t know let’s try and
it kept working and that’s when I
realized it was really something very
very special so people start asking you
to share help them figure out their why
and it gets bigger and bigger was when
did you decide alright I’ve got to sit
and write this down yeah and do you
consider yourself a writer I mean did
you where you already write
lots of things and tell us about your
process not a writer never imagined
being a writer never fantasized about
being a writer but as I said other
people who believed what I believed I
got very very very good at talking about
what I believed and stopped completely
talking about what I did
people come to say what do you do and I
wouldn’t say what I did I would tell
them what I believe and literally I
started practicing the things that I
eventually wrote about which is I
started with why and when you do that it
attracts people who believe what you
believe and so the way the book came
about is a friend of mine who knew what
I believed and that was sharing my ideas
with her I said you have to write this
down and I shrugged and she said I’ll
introduce you to an agent and I shrugged
and then I had an agent and somebody
else said I wanted to use you to an
editor friend I had and I was trying to
said okay and the editor talked to me he
said I wanted reduce you to a publisher
so my meeting with the publisher
actually wasn’t set up by my agent and I
ended up having a 29 minute meeting with
Adrian Zack Heim who’s the god of
business publishing he’s the original
publisher from good to great he came up
with the title and everything Wow and
I’m in this twenty nine minute meeting
with him and three days later they
offered me a book deal and I literally I
never presented myself as anything that
I was not and I just would tell people
what I believed and I and what I
imagined the world could be based on
this little idea and people who believe
what I believe wanted a help and so he
helped me by offering me the opportunity
to to share my idea at a much broader
scale he absolutely took a bet on me I
was an unknown personality I didn’t have
much of a platform which is what they
was tell you need and he took a bet Wow
so I’m very very very lucky and very
very grateful to him for that bet and I
mean a great bet to take obviously I
mean it’s just it’s worldwide I mean
anyone has I feel like I haven’t come
across anyone who hasn’t heard of it or
doesn’t know everybody knows one of the
most popular TED Talks of all time I
mean just congratulations thank you but
so what’s interesting is you’re why tell
everyone your why to inspire people to
do the things that inspire them so
together we can change our world
– love it but I and what about people
who are like that’s great to have a why
but like we have to do work for example
there’s a lot of grunt work there’s jobs
that anyone would hate doing what about
what did what do you say to them so if
you there’s two questions there I don’t
believe the Y is the end-all be-all
when I talk about the Golden Circle
there were three levels to it what we do
how we do it and why we do it right the
reason I talk about the why is because
that’s the piece that’s always missing
because everybody knows what they do
some people know how they do it the
things that you think make you stand out
from the competition you’re
differentiating value proposition
whatever II want to call it but very
very few people if ever think about or
talk about why they do what they do and
my point was is that you cannot achieve
or find long term success or fulfillment
unless all three pieces are there so of
course of course the heavy lifting
happens if you all you have is y and no
work then you live on a hippie commune
everything’s kumbaya and you don’t get
any work done which is also very
unfulfilled after some time and no if
all you do is what and how then you have
a job rather than a calling you know
it’s more it is grunt work as opposed to
something that matters Y contextualizes
the importance of all of that hard
lifting you know if you work very very
hard for something you hate or don’t
believe and it’s called stress if you
work very very hard for something you do
believe in or love it’s called passion
and that’s what the Y does if fuels it
gives you the energy to get all that
heavy lifting done now you said
something else they’re just you said
there are just jobs people don’t like or
something today there are some jobs no
one would like yeah that’s just not true
I think that we have this sort of very
ethnocentric sense of our own like well
clearly people like things like working
in tech and how can anybody like working
as a janitor or something and it’s
completely nonsense it’s really
judgmental actually of us to even think
that way because again because I know
because I know so many high tech people
and bankers and white-collar and you
know movie business and glamour glamour
who hate their lives hate their jobs
hate their colleagues hate their bosses
and need pills to sleep okay
I know plenty
them their superficial glamorous
wonderful lives and I know plenty of
people who work in factories with their
hands and they stand at a machine all
day and are grateful for the company
they work for and they love their
colleagues and they feel cared for and
they love coming to work because they
feel like they’re contributing to
something bigger than themselves it has
nothing to do with the work they do it
has to do with the reason they come to
work see why it started a movement
obviously but let’s get back to you so
you start to see I’m assuming that it’s
catching on like wildfire and you get
this book deal and now people want you
to speak all the time did did you change
your business model or sell your old
business or did you just transition
because you were doing marketing
consultant yeah so the marketing
business happened three years prior so I
had the marketing business lost my
passion for what I was doing that crisis
mm-hmm
was the spark that helped me find this
thing called the why and then define the
Golden Circle and I would fall in love
with this idea and would literally go to
my friend’s apartments and give talks to
their friends about this thing called
the Y and I would help people find their
Y for a hundred bucks on the side that’s
how it began okay and people just kept
in kept asking me to speak and I kept
saying yes so I was actually giving the
talk for about three years before any
book or TED talk and that’s when I
abandoned my marketing business because
I realized when I realized I could make
a living doing this that people will pay
me to speak and will also invite me to
come in consult I guess but as it
started to gain popularity then the
question was what do I want to do and I
made the conscious decision not to build
a consultancy because I didn’t want for
me spreading the message was much more
important
so I sort of took on the the the
identity of a sort of a modern-day
preacher I had a purpose I had a cause I
had a calling
I had a something I believed in that I
was gonna preach I was gonna share it I
was gonna stand on my bully pulpit and I
was gonna look for followers to help me
spread this spread this gospel I mean
that’s really the the angle I took and
that’s what we’ve done and the reason
the message has spread is because that’s
what we decided we would do I could have
become a consultant and made a nice
little nest egg but this seemed like the
the right thing to do I’d rather more
people find a job they love and feel
inspired when they wake up every day not
just a few people I could to help so
when you’re that passionate and that
committed was it I feel like it would be
interesting or maybe challenging or
difficult to bring on team members how
so
well because it’s like your baby I mean
everyone’s business is their baby so a
lot of people have questions about
hiring but what what were your what’s
your advice for starting to build a team
I think the Divis between an
entrepreneur who cannot achieve scale
which is different from success you can
make a ton of money but that’s not scale
it’s just money right versus being able
to cross that little chasm and find that
tipping point where it can really gain
scale is the ability to let go you know
I’d been chief cook and bottle washer I
had done every job and so when I started
needing help because I could no longer
do every job I didn’t have the time or
the energy I wanted to tell everybody
how I used to do it and have them do it
that way that’s that’s that’s about like
assigning tasks that’s not a sending
responsibility that’s not letting go and
it was a slow uncomfortable process it’s
not like tomorrow morning I’m just gonna
let go you know it doesn’t it doesn’t it
doesn’t work that way it’s a very
uncomfortable process
I assume you you use the analogy of this
is your baby I assume it’s something
like when your kids grow up and leave
the house or when they become old enough
to drive and they gain some independents
like we’d like to tell them what to do
what to eat when to go to bed when to
have a shower but you kind of lose that
and some parents struggle with that and
it creates tension in the relationship
with their kids and some parents slowly
embrace that their kids are adults and
it’s the same kind of transition where
you people come on and you realize that
they care and that they’re smart and
that they’re good at what they do and
that they want to learn and so they want
to do things they’ve never done before
also they don’t have to be experts in
everything and you let go a little bit
and they do an amazing job and you let
go and amazing a little bit late and
then they you let go a little bit and
they screw it all up and you say okay
try again and the more they feel that
you care about their success the more I
started to feel um that I cared about
the success of those around me it became
very easy for me to simply say just take
care of this and whatever happens is
fine in every decision you make I love
you know yeah which this is kind of
easily segwaying us into your next book
but before we go there I was listening
to I’m sure you’re familiar with Liz
Gilbert and I was listening to her in an
interview and she was talking about
after the massive success of Eat Pray
Love kind of like a little bit of an
identity crisis you know did you have
that after what became I mean your book
became what it is so it’s funny you
bring up Elizabeth Gilbert because her
TED talk actually helped me not go
through that so people would come up to
me and say how are you gonna do another
TED talk as successful as the first one
and the answer was I’m not that was an
accident I won the lottery like I won
the lottery and I can’t plan to win the
lottery again like that’s not how it
works and the success of start with Y
again like I can’t plan that like
there’s nothing you can’t plan for
something that was an accident
so I had actually completely divorced
myself of any notion that I had to
produce something that was better or
more successful than the first work and
so when I set out to write leaders eat
last the only goal was to share every
lesson that I’ve been learning on the
topic of trust and cooperation and do
the best job I can of communicating
those ideas with literally no concern or
thought where there would be more
successful than the first one I didn’t
mind I didn’t care and I feel that way
about all my work which is you know the
Y has sort of gone off and done its own
thing and and it’s like my kid leaving
the house I’m like I’m just so proud so
tell us just about your actual writing
process do you sit in a room for a
certain chunk every day or you know how
do you actually get the book done a very
very envious of writers with discipline
you know who treat it like a job from
9:00 to 5:00 or set a goal every day of
writing you know whatever a thousand
words or 2,000 words and they do that I
that’s not my process my process is best
defined as days of guilt and
self-loathing
punctuated by hours of
your brilliance and the problem is I
don’t know when those hours will strike
and so I will sit at home and watch TV
and hate myself for not getting any work
done and and I won’t go out for dinner
in case one of these things strikes and
then I sit at home and watch TV and say
I should have gone out for dinner then I
would see my friends and then the next
night I got for dinner and then I have
an idea and I’m riding on tablecloths
and it’s it’s more of a creative mad
process than it is a disciplined process
I feel like a lot of people can relate
to that a lot of writers probably yeah
I’m okay with it like I don’t pretend
that I have the discipline I don’t like
sit at a desk and stare at a screen or
write I can’t write you know some
writers they can write two thousand
words a day even if it’s junk I can’t do
that if I’m writing I have to like what
I’m writing I don’t like what I’m
writing then I stop writing
interesting now your second book leaders
eat last if you guys haven’t heard the
story that prompted that you told it so
brilliantly to marie forleo so i don’t
want to take time on that today but i’ll
link it you guys go watch it because I
was like on the edge of my seats of this
whole your whole journey through
Afghanistan and just take note of the
way he tells stories okay for anybody
who’s the speaker or you’re working on
your writing because I was just riveted
so then after in that book I I kind of
want you to just touch on what you feel
like our leadership challenges for
people who are still very small so five
employees ten employees because a lot of
times you know they’re growing so fast
they’re trying to keep up there’s no
culture to speak of
there’s nothing what’s your advice to
them so when we’re junior or when we’re
solo we only really have to be good at
whatever it is we claim we’re offering
like that’s pretty much it you know and
as you gain seniority or as you have to
bring on more people you have to go
through a transition you don’t have a
choice some people make it quickly some
people make it slowly and some people
will never make it at all which is you
now go through the transition where
you’re no longer responsible for the job
you’re now responsible for the people
who are responsible for the job right so
I love talking to CEOs and say you know
what’s your priority say my customer I’m
like you haven’t talked to a customer in
10 years yeah you’re not responsible
with a customer you’re responsible for
the people who are responsible for the
customer you know there’s not a senior
exec
on the planet that’s responsible for the
results zero they’re responsible for the
people who responsible for the results
and so we work so hard and get advanced
degrees on how to do the job but really
there’s very little out there to train
us to do the job of leadership which is
to let go of the results and take care
of the people who are responsible for
results now when you have a small
business you actually have to do both
where you do have responsibility for the
job because you’re still in the game
but now you also have responsibility for
people and their and their jobs and so
you have to dance that line and if you
do too much of one then the thing
collapses and if you do too much of the
other then you’re you’re a micromanager
and everybody wants you out of their way
and everybody hates coming to work for
you and the thing collapses and so you
really have to find that balance and as
the organization grows what you’ve been
doing is practicing and as the
organization grows and you stop doing
the jobs you used to do you now take
care of the people who do the jobs so
you know you become a much better leader
but it’s a it’s a process it’s a
transition it’s an education it’s not an
event it’s not like today I’m a leader I
hired you know I’ve got five people I’m
a leader it’s nice it smells work that
way so but it takes unbelievable it took
a lot of hard work it takes a lot of
energy leadership is the most it is more
difficult in the business right because
you can back plan something or you can
figure out how to fill your pipeline but
how you deal with the whims and
insecurities and egos and ambitions of a
human being who no matter how great they
are they have a fight with their spouse
or there’s a family tragedy or they
didn’t get enough sleep and everything’s
horrible right you know like they come
to work with all of that stress and
anxiety and human beings are messy it’s
I wish it were so neat and so it’s like
leadership is really really hard work
and I equate leadership to it’s like
everyone to parenting where everyone on
the planet has the capacity to be a
parent it doesn’t mean everybody should
be a parent and it doesn’t mean
everybody wants to be a parent
leadership is the same everybody has the
capacity to be a leader doesn’t mean
that everybody wants to be a leader and
it doesn’t mean that everybody should be
a leader so if you don’t want to be a
parent don’t have kids
if you don’t want to be a leader then
don’t push your career to have people
report to you because you then don’t
have a choice like if you accidentally
have a kid congratulations you are now a
parent right yep
you know so if you find yourself in a
leadership position you either give it
up to somebody doesn’t say and I know
plenty of entrepreneurs who do that they
bring in presidents to run their
companies and they like to be the
creative director they like to be in the
weeds because they’re good at it and
they don’t want to run the organization
they don’t want to lead the people right
it’s hard mm-hmm and you stop getting to
do the stuff that you like doing anyway
you have to like leadership so it’s an
education and the best leaders I know
like truly remarkable leaders who’ve
some of them have achieved amazing
things and they command unbelievable
love and loyalty from their people they
get all the theories that I talk about
they get it they do it I learn from them
none of them consider themselves experts
they all consider themselves students
and when anybody says to you you know
I’m an expert at this I think I know
what I’m doing run run run
yeah it’s the ones who understand that
every everyday as a leader is an
education and so all the leaders I know
talk about leadership
look we sit down and we talk about it
like I want to hear what they’re doing
then when you were time doing like we
talk about it because we’re learning
right I may be in a more advanced
student than some but I’m still a
student right and so when you have that
perspective you show up every single day
as a student have a student’s mind a
student’s mentality and so your constant
like you watch the news or you watch a
press conference or you meet someone and
you’re constantly paying attention to
how they answered something or how they
did something agreeing and disagreeing
because you’re in student mode if you’re
an expert mode you’ve just ignored the
world around you so all the best leaders
I know see it as a constant every day
education and a daily practice student
mode I like that student mode so now you
are a leader and you have a team play
one on TV what is the average day like
for simon Sinek
oh I wish I had an average day actual
no I don’t have an average day my days
are die I’d like to say that I want one
of these I love my job is I don’t know
what I do every Monday I don’t really
have a sense of routine there are lots
of things that I have to do and
sometimes things go in spurts so
sometimes I’m on the road sometimes I’m
working directly with organizations or
leaders in the resort within those
organizations sometimes I’m writing I
have a strategic partnership with EUI
Ornstein Young where they’re taking my
IP and we’re developing it into products
and services so we can give it to more
people so that they can implement it
more easily and we’re I’m actually a
part of something that they do every
year called sgf which in the
entrepreneur world is very very well
known I love that kind of stuff so I
have responsibilities there as well
we’re developing stuff together which is
fun so there’s no there’s no there’s no
routine but like anybody else my
struggles are the same that sometimes I
have I have what I call very
productively unproductive days where
there’s something I have to get done and
I get done 15 other things but not the
thing right do you have any daily
rituals or habits that you think have
helped in your success I mean as I said
before I’m very good about asking for
help of bouncing ideas of someone you
know even if I’m you know rarely away a
hundred percent sure about but even if
I’m a 90 percent sure about something
I’ll call up somebody on my team be like
so this is what’s happening this is what
I’m thinking of doing and sometimes just
me getting to say it out loud is like
okay no that’s actually a bad idea yeah
you know so I’m very good about using
sounding boards even for things that I’m
fairly confident about so I do that a
lot it’s the basics I think you got to
get a good night’s sleep I think you you
got to exercise you know if you don’t if
you think one of the big things I
changed my life was I prioritized
exercise so exercise for me goes in my
schedule like a meeting and too many of
us treat exercise as something malleable
or flexible where oh my god I have this
amazing opportunity to meet with this
person I’ll move my gym time I don’t
like my gym time is
in my schedule and if somebody says can
I meet you at 3 o’clock or later you
know six o’clock whatever whenever I put
it in sometimes you did the middle today
I go I’m sorry I’m busy that time they’d
have to know what I’m doing
right I’m busy so can we do it tomorrow
yeah and I’m really my I really started
things started to may get a lot easier
for me when I prioritized my body and my
health
equally as my my my work so that’s a big
one and I’m really good about separating
from my telephone and from from email my
phone doesn’t go busy being buzzed beep
for every notification I keep my phone
ring or off almost all the time I don’t
know when I get emails I’ll check later
like it doesn’t my email alert has
actually turned off so the only way I
find out if I got an email is if I go
check my phone won’t buzz and that’s on
purpose because I don’t want to
Pavlovian response you know somebody hit
reply all and I got buzzed I go like
this and I thought and it didn’t even
matter and I interrupted something that
I actually was focused on and I broke
that concentration yeah I’m really good
about putting my phone away and working
not having it on the desk I’m really
good about going out with my friends or
even for meetings not putting the phone
on the desk not putting the phone on the
table engaging with somebody fully and
it’s that practice where people are much
more likely to want to help you if they
feel that you do something as simple as
look in the eye and give them your full
attention as opposed to one of these
deals uh-huh you’re totally or my
favorite one is the phone rings they go
I’m not gonna get this it’s like oh
you’re so magnet yeah so so I’m really
good at prioritizing health I don’t
believe in pulling all-nighters
I just don’t believe in it the quality
of the work can’t be that good anyway
you know for talk in the morning I’d
rather get at least some sleep and then
wake up early and work you know and and
and really prioritizing the
relationships I have with other people
whether it’s whether it’s a first-time
meeting or an old friend
I’m very good about putting my phone
away do you feel like you had to give
anything up to serve this giant movement
I’ve given up a lot and always
consciously
the decisions were made by accident um
you know when you when I made the
decision that I was going to spread this
message I knew that it would come as a
sacrifice to my my personal life I knew
that I knew that going in you know when
you’re always on the road going on a
date and goes great and you go oh my god
I had so much fun are you free in six
weeks
yeah your honor your undateable I there
was a sacrifice there I knew that and
there was a point at which I was
sacrificing my health have fixed that
one but yeah there were sacrifices I’ve
made I regret none of them you know you
make value judgments and you can pick
one you know you can’t have it all yeah
and so if you’re gonna choose this you
can have to give up that so if you want
more time you might have to give up some
of the money if you want more money then
you’re gonna have to give up some of the
time like you know yeah and sometimes I
play with a juggle with those you know
looking back what’s the best part and
the worst part of your journey so far
well the best part is the journey I mean
this is the most exciting amazing
wonderful thing that I’ve ever done it
my life is surreal there’s not a single
thing that I’m doing or have done that I
could have imagined that I would do I’m
grateful for every day and when
everybody says oh my god you’ve done so
much my answer has been the same for the
past ten years which is it’s just the
tip of the iceberg you know I’m I’m
trying to change the way in which
business is run I’m trying to undo all
of the theories that were popularized in
the 80s and 90s you know shareholder
supremacy putting the interests of an
external constituent ahead of the people
inside your company that’s like a coach
prioritizing the the desires of the fans
over the desires of the players that’s
what that is well we have to sell
tickets
sure destroy your team and appease a fan
for a year or two with a couple
promotions right so that’s what
shareholder supremacy is that was a
theory that was proposed in late 1970s
the use of mass layoffs to balance the
books we’re not talking life-and-death
situations here you know balancing the
books for the year you know that was a
that did not exist in the United States
prior to the 1980s so they have all of
these theories rank and yank terrible
terrible destroys the inside of a
corporate culture or pitting people
against each other I guess I like to get
my people to compete
no no compete with not compete against
you know there’s all of these theories
that were popularized in the 80s and 90s
all in the name of selfish desires that
have really done long-term damage to our
economy to the way we feel about our
jobs the way we feel about each other
the way you feel about ourselves
depression is massively on the rise in
our company if any company goes look at
their that without what they’re spending
on health care you know from you know
they can companies can see what drugs
they’re buying and their health care
plans you’ll see that there is a
precipitous rise and we have a
precipitous rise exponential rise in in
depression drugs in fact it’s the number
one thing that we’re treating in
companies so I’m trying to completely
undo an entire philosophy of how we do
business that is the norm in the United
States and other places in the world
like we don’t even think that anything
is bad when layoffs are no they
announced layoffs it’s awful right so no
matter how much I’ve accomplished I
stand at the foot of my of the mountain
oh my god oh my god I’m so much more to
do yeah and I love that I guess the
worst part is that what is the worst
part I mean I have bad days and but
that’s not I mean like you get through
those and I have days where I think I
can’t do it but you get through those
and I don’t know it’s pretty it’s pretty
cool that’s an awesome answer I don’t
know yeah I’m sorry I wish I had
something so if you had to give what
your number one piece of advice for
someone who is has a message and they’re
trying to spread it to the world what’s
your number one piece of advice for them
so spread it like what are you waiting
for do it you know I get this question
sometimes you know I want to be a public
speaker how do I start
speak I don’t know you know like it’s
not about the problem is are you
speaking because you have a message to
spread are you speaking because you want
to be on Ted or become famous or get
paid lots of money to stand on the stage
like what’s your motivation like if your
motivation is to be on Ted or be famous
I got nothing
I have no idea how you do that right but
if you have a message to spread the rule
is talk to anyone who will listen
remember I started just talking for free
in the living rooms of my friends that’s
how I started yeah and somebody said
will you come to my company and they
went mookie and they paid me a couple
hundred bucks you know and the first
time somebody ever offered me any sort
of real money I didn’t realize this was
an industry that I could accept the
money so I gave it to charity like they
gave me a big check and you know because
that’s what I thought you did right so I
didn’t realize I could make a living so
I even today I don’t define myself as a
speaker I speak and if I stop speaking
I still have an identity in other words
my identity comes from my Y my identity
comes from my message my identity comes
from the thing that I want to talk about
that I want to write about I’m an author
technically because I happen to have
written a couple of books but do I cease
to have an identity because if I never
write another book again what if I never
give another speech what happens my
identity I’m fine
so I’ve never wanted to be a speaker or
an author I just want to spread a
message and I am completely agnostic as
to how I spread that message right so if
you want to do these things then you
have to wake up to do that thing not to
be someone or be that thing you know so
the question is what is the message
you’re trying to spread and if you
believe displaying that message your
passion will show through and if your
passion shows through because you
believe desperately in that message
people will invite you because they’re
attracted to your passion and they like
your message and if your practice and
you become clearer and more articulate
and how you explain your ideas and other
people go I understand I understand so
clearly I can tell someone your idea
without you in the room
then what happens to is your message
starts to spread without you yeah and
then down somebody calls you up and says
will you come and deliver your message
that I’ve heard about over here and you
go I would love to thank you and the
thing grows we’ll be back in just a
second with fast facts man there is so
much we can learn from that interview
but here are my keys to success from my
interview with simon Sinek number one be
honest with yourself and
CENTAC with others he had to realize
what he was good at and what he wasn’t
good at he says once he started to get
honest and just spread his message with
others things started to take off he
didn’t try to build a platform or become
an author he just started to share his
ideas and focus on what he was good at
number two be patient and persistent
cynic started really small sharing his
message in friends apartments for a
hundred bucks on the side he just
started sharing his message and he says
if you want to create a movement just
get up and start sharing your message
but of course you have to consider why
you want to start a movement and realize
that it takes a lot of time and
sacrifice he gave up a lot in his
personal life in order to spread this
message so quickly and so powerfully
number three be passionate focused and
passion focused again we have to talk
about why if we’re talking about simon
Sinek he literally started practicing
the things he wrote about he would
introduce himself by talking about what
he believed in instead of what he did he
says if you just start sharing and
practice how to share your passion
clearly other people will start to get
on board and it will begin to grow
number four be willing to let go and
keep learning he says that the
entrepreneurs that reach a tipping point
realized that they have to let go and
truly delegate and be able to tell their
team members that they can make their
own decisions and that they’ll be fine
with the decisions that they make
and part of letting go is admitting you
don’t have all the answers he says that
the best leaders he knows are constantly
in student mode and that learning is a
daily practice for them number five be
practical be present and stay grateful
he says to focus on the simple things
when it comes to your health like diet
exercise getting a lot of sleep then he
says focus on being present he puts away
his phone he engages with people and
lastly he called himself lucky multiple
times even though he worked for three
years on his idea before starting to get
any sort of traction with his book deal
or his speaking gigs he was just sharing
his message with people in their home
this is someone who worked hard to start
sharing his message and instead he says
he got lucky that is a sign of someone
who’s grateful and he says he’s living
his dream and is grateful for every day
and we are back for fast facts just try
and answer as quickly as you can okay
without really thinking about okay all
right
what is the wallpaper on your phone it’s
a photograph it’s a it’s an art it’s I’m
and I’m an art nut so it’s a photograph
of a girl in a pool but it’s the broom
the pool is decorated like it’s a house
it’s hard to explain okay so it’s okay
probably a restaurant something nearby
yeah Scrabble or charades Oh Scrabble
hands down favorite book a man’s search
Wonderland chocolate or vanilla
chocolate one word you’re guilty of
saying too often probably the word
inspire who is the last person that you
called or texted my sister what was the
last awkward situation you were in pick
a day I mean last vacation you took
Bahamas favorite hobby photography
coffee or tea tea early bird or night
owl it’s changed I used to be a night
out now still I’m like a hybrid kind of
a hybrid winter or summer winter wine or
beer wine pancakes or waffles
don’t care guilty pleasure TV show Game
of Thrones but I don’t feel guilty
yeah neither marie forleo says the same
thing and I also I agree favorite snack
I like those I like those pop corners
you know they call they like the popcorn
things sweet thing
there’s a good interesting I’ll try and
Google app for the rest of us and link
to whatever it is you’re talking about
good favorite cereal I’m I like I’m a
I’m a syrup I have many boxes of cereal
and I
myself and so there’s no favorite cereal
it’s the art of mixing cereal you know
is the same way Seth Godin Siri ologist
is what I am yeah I mix cereals there’s
usually raisins in there there’s usually
maybe sometimes there’s fruit I’m like
I’m going through a goat’s milk phase
right now
interesting yeah what is your favorite
music right now I have an eclectic taste
in music I mean this is embarrassing
the the Hamilton soundtrack I mean yeah
yeah I wondered if you were gonna say
that because it’s like a phenomenon and
I love that you just like to the point
where my friends are like okay you can
shut up now
amazing biggest pet peeve I got a bunch
of those I hate it when I mean how
myopic are we talking here I hate open
cabinets when people leave cabinets open
like I walk into someone’s house and
cabinets are up and I will go and I just
like close all their kitchen cabinets
like don’t come over it makes me it
makes me really uncomfortable that is
just on to the next task
no no so is mine like I’ll open the
cabinet take some that close the cabinet
open a cabinet take something out of
clothes again yeah I get that I don’t
know where it comes from but it’s true
what were you doing right before this
interview I was working with the
wonderful people at ey figuring out what
we’re gonna do at sgf and what will you
be doing after this interview I don’t
know actually
all right honest I don’t know well again
thank you so much this has been
incredible it’s been an awesome time thank you for fitting us in
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