[Music]
he says I hear you have a problem with
the president I said I got a big problem
with the president we want you to meet
him at the time like I said I wouldn’t
meet this president the tarmac if he’s
the last President on earth you didn’t
say that
how about cocaine how about heroin
you’re legalizing that so a wallet so
legalize all of it all right and if they
want to kill it don’t let me kill them
so soon legalize coke legalized her own
legalized prostitution with cut comes
off of somebody does graffiti she used
to say Oscars clients never hurt anybody
they just killed each other I mean you
read a story about their Tony putting a
guy’s head in a case I spied on the case
so adesso did it happen did it you know
the saying look you can get away with
murder if you have enough money and the
right attorney backing you up how much
truth is there behind that stage well so
today we’re sitting with somebody I’ve
been looking forward to this meeting
we’ve been going back and forth finally
we could get the schedules to work
together Oscar Goodman to introduce him
properly is a three-time mayor of Vegas
then as a wife follows up and comes the
mayor Debbie you know your wife and
mayors for what 19 20 years now big
almost 20 years we’ve never been done
before I’ve never done before in the
United States he has been known as a mop
a turn knob there’s no such thing as a
mob come on Patrick
you said this was gonna be a legitimate
interview I told you that but after all
the fights and battles I said you got to
open up you got to talk to us City so I
appreciate you like you want me to rat
out the mob and maybe we’re gonna get to
a little bit of that I don’t know some
of the questions here we got is gonna be
tricky but by the way if you’re a movie
guy and you’re like mob movies if you’ve
seen a movie Casino you would have seen
Oscar Goodman in the movie Casino I
could tell all your viewers one thing if
they would watch the movie I make 13
cents every time it’s on TV
13 13 cents it’s a wonderful that movies
played a lot of time so you made a lot
of 13 so a lot of 13 still gettin
residuals could you imagine what the
neuro gets so you were De Niro’s
attorney in the movie I was De Niro’s
attorney in the movie in Pesci’s
attorney in the movie and Sharon Stone’s
attorney in the movie and in real life
represented all the people they depicted
the Tony Spilotro was a Pesci character
De Niro played Frank Rosenthal and
Sharon Stone was Jerry Rosenthal and I
know you told me a story last time that
Sharon’s don’t came to your house it was
a lovely lovely woman not the persona
that you see the
tough lady she’s like she’s like the
girl next door she’s a beautiful lady
she is it physically she’s beautiful
you’re telling me she’s beautiful as I
say and because I always say yeah it’s
beautiful on the inside is the outside I
have some cool questions I want to go
through with you obviously for you to go
from where you were at moving here so
why do you leave Philadelphia to come to
Vegas don’t you know Philadelphia like
you left 64 it’s not like there wasn’t
any action and full of bills and every
kind of action they were the cops there
were using billy clubs knocking people
over the head today instead of shooting
them so that’s the difference in the
action I want to know who you were in
high school but you know guy we do you
know the Gator who you the 4.0 GPA where
you I was like a 2.0 no I usually was
the dumbest guy in my class although I
went to the best schools I went to a
wonderful High School where you had to
take a test to get into it was one of
the two finest high schools in the
United States at the time guy it was he
only high school in the country that had
a president instead of a principal then
my folks moved and I went to a private
school out on the main line
the Haverford school and then went to
Haverford College which was ranked
number one in US News and World Report
as the number one liberal arts college
in the United States and basically I was
the dumbest kid in my class but I loved
I loved College it was like being at the
Elysian Fields it was bucolic I studied
philosophy I studied sociology but then
I’d lost him I was like the ugly
duckling that became the beautiful swan
and played a little football there
played a little baseball there played a
little everything I was the only
undefeated wrestler and Harvard’s
history yeah my roommate was a real
wrestler and they were wrestling I think
Lafayette College and the Lafayette
Heavyweight was out so they took me
along said Goodman’s gonna be the
heavyweight tonight no one was there to
oppose me so they declare me the winner
which was very very good champions I
went to law school University of
Pennsylvania fine law school Ivy League
but the truth the matter is compared to
my experience at Haverford which was
just so interesting to me in those days
when I went to law school I was with
people I’m still friendly with them who
wanted to be corporate lawyers wanted to
be business lawyers and I wanted to be a
civil libertarian I wanted to represent
people
the little guy against the big
government so I was unhappy and got
married to my wife barely made it
through my first year of law school it
was a miracle that I made it through and
became even unhappier not only with the
curriculum but the fact that she was
supporting me and that bugged me I mean
I couldn’t stand the fact that my wife
was why because I looked I guess I’m
chauvinistic I thought that the man was
supposed to support the woman at least
in those days that’s what I think it was
the right thing to do so I decided to
get a job and I walked from 34th and
chestnut where the law school was and
Philadelphia down to Broad which is the
equivalent of 14th and Market one block
off at chestnut went into the DA’s
office there knocked on the door didn’t
know a soul and the DA himself came out
Jim Crow malysh and I said mister
Cranitch I said I need a job I’d like to
be a clerk for your office he said well
I don’t make those decisions but you may
want to see all inspector who became a
United States Senator a very important
person in America’s history he
interviewed me he had just come off the
first victory of a prosecutor against
the teamster official and he was riding
at the crest he was very very popular
and he said I could always use a
research guy do you want to work I said
I really I really want the job he said
I’ll pay in dollar an hour but you have
to work forty hour a week well I was the
only guy in my law school class who
worked at all because everybody’s
studying they want to be warring to
order of the coif I I said I’m so happy
thank you for the privilege of being
able to work and I worked my tail off
and he was a stern taskmaster very
critical of anything that I did but
constructively criticize me and a
wealthy widow was murdered in
Philadelphia and the fellows who
murdered her took three hundred thousand
dollars from under her mattress came out
to Las Vegas to launder it in the
old-fashioned way at the crap tables now
here is this
I’d say 63 1963 got it Arlen assigned me
to work up the testimony of the police
officers who arrested these two fellows
while they were in Las Vegas they got
released on a writ of habeas corpus and
then went to Omaha they were really
they’re brought back to Philadelphia for
trial in the murder case and they raised
a Fourth Amendment search and seizure
issue as far as the search that took
play
in Las Vegas and that the two policemen
who engaged in the search activity here
and arrested them here they came back at
Orland said interview these fellows and
anticipation of a motion to suppress so
was one of these cold dreary rotten
Eastern nights that the wind was just
going through this old stone city hall
building and we worked for four or five
hours and then they said let’s let’s go
out to dinner we had dinner and dinner
they said you’re a nice kid what are you
doing here well nobody ever asked me
that question before Philadelphians in
those days were the most provincial
people in the world I said where else is
there they said Las Vegas I say you got
to be kidding people live there he says
it’s a great community so I went home
that night and I woke Carolyn up my wife
my dear a beautiful bride I woke her up
and I said sweetheart how he’d like to
go to the land of milk and honey she
said I love you but I’m not going to
Israel so that was the end of that one
and then we decided we would come out
here because he promised the new
frontier they said you could do whatever
you want Las Vegas if you have half a
brain and you’re willing to work and
they were absolutely right we didn’t
know a soul came across the country
arrived at the top of the mountain
looking over the valley here there were
a couple twinkling lights in the desert
and my wife said where have you brought
me I said don’t worry this is the great
she says my parents were right I
shouldn’t have married you we settled in
we had lived in a tiny little apartment
in Philadelphia and she said I want you
to have the nicest apartment that you
could afford and I said well that’s not
too much we have $87 between us we found
an apartment it’s a nice little
apartment it was a two-story apartment
we’re here here a two-story apartment
that had a little patio front I mean
compared to what we had in Philadelphia
which was like a postage stamp this was
like a palace but one next-door
neighbour worked for the del Webb
corporation very nice another one was
they had a food and beverage and another
hotel and across the street was a
prostitute who walked a little poodle
every morning and I got my binoculars
out and she was a beautiful prostitute
and she became my clientele the
prostitute absolute not the brutal what
was the case that she became oh well
more soliciting is what
was it the soliciting soliciting and
everyone has to make a living and by the
way you’re for sure I certainly yeah I
don’t even think it’s close first of all
the girls will be safe the customers
would be safe there’s never been a case
of sexually transmitted disease
emanating from one of the brothels here
in Nevada the girls have to go to the
doctor no one’s forcing them to work
they make a decent living they eat well
I visited these brothels in preparation
of cases on occasion and never heard a
complaint from them I much prefer to see
somebody working in an atmosphere like
that rather than going into some back
alley and engaging in some $20 trick so
you believe in anything that can be
taxed turning legal I believe I believe
in anything we’re consenting adults who
aren’t hurting one another and can do I
don’t even get into the economic aspect
yet I’m just saying how about cocaine
how about heroin you’re legalizing that
so all of it so legalize all of it oh
and if they want to kill themselves let
them kill them so how do you say that
and then you turn around and you say if
you do graffiti in the city of Vegas
which is your day off because it was my
beautiful Blood Stone tortoise that some
punk kid that graffiti so I wanted to
teach people a lesson and I suggested
that we go on TV not just cut the thumb
off that wouldn’t do any good it just
hurt him I wanted everyone to see the
thumb being cut off and you were serious
about that serious episode but I liked
stockades too they could take these
graffiti people I haven’t seen a Picasso
out there by the way who’s messing up
the walls okay but we so legalize coke
legalize their own legalized
prostitution but cut thumbs off if
somebody does graffiti where is you
higher your process because they’re
hurting somebody with a graffiti a
building that person has to spend a lot
of money or the city has to spend a lot
of money to make it clean again or else
do you have just a outrageous blight
taking place all over the place and with
these other things you’re just hurting
yourself it’s like I have four children
and none of whom drink and drive now
that wasn’t an a priori decision on
their part they learned that drinking
and driving is bad you’re gonna get in a
lot of trouble and the same thing you
teach him that taking coke is
taking opioids is bad unless you need
them in order to appease pain but if
they want to hurt themselves they’re not
hurting anybody else let them hurt
themselves they’re people I mean they’re
cutting a thumb off you’re pretty
hardcore me you know I’m not I was a
local time that’s like this well I’m not
taking eyes out but if the kid did it
again and we caught him by the way I
spent a little too much time with moms
but no no no no we caught the kid who
had graffiti cut his thumb off word
let’s put it this way I went to the
judge and I said as part of his sentence
I want this kid to come up to my office
in City Hall and apologize to the city
of Las Vegas and when he came up he
caught his father with him and I had a
machete on my desk come on I had a
machete on my desk and I promise you
this after he got through stuttering I
could assure he’s never gonna graffiti
anything again city keys machete not
cutting the thumbs off is what you’re
saying no I’m saying that he thought I
meant business
how old was it can probably bout 17 you
you probably mess with this kid’s mind
for the rest of it I don’t like a
remember you I hope you had nightmares
about it – every night that won’t stop
him from going to a prostitute though
okay but it will stop it from graffiti
maybe he is now a customer – that
prostitute walking the poodle maybe
there’s a connection there now she’s
older than Methuselah she’s a female
masseuse so so go back to you’re in
you’re in the apartment two bedrooms so
I’m finding who is your neighbors and
then you have $87 rent is $87 how are
you getting your first customer how did
you get your first client to get a
career going before we go there I said
to Caroline I said you have to get a job
sweetheart and she got a great job but
advertising and publicity over at the
Riviera Hotel and it really was very
very good at it so we had a little bit
of money coming in I made a little bit
of money in the DA’s office after I took
the bar I went to work for the public
defender’s office I learned an awful lot
there – my first six cases as a public
defender I won them either when I say I
won them I thought I had to define that
I got him dismissed I worked out a deal
that the client could not refuse so they
were very successful of course I was a
court appointed for all intents and
purposes the clients were not paying me
because I was a public
defender not one of these clients thank
me I guess I don’t know why they didn’t
thank me but and you remember that out
of the six none of them thank you
not one thank me and the first case I
got as a private lawyer when a referral
from somebody I lost it and they thanked
me for trying so hard it always taught
me that there’s nothing wrong with
charging a client and also I learned
where there’s a fee there’s a remedy so
I’m not one of these lawyers who had
people come into his office and say oh I
can’t do it or it’s not going to be good
if I took their money they knew I would
work as hard as any human being could
work to make sure that had an
appropriate result so how did this so
call community called and that some
people call mobsters now obviously you
know well they were mobsters in those
hey how did you find him though how did
you although you know you know a lot of
people wiseguys I call them authors who
write stories that Oscar Goodman was
sent out by the mob to represent their
interests in Las Vegas well the mob
would not send me out with 87 dollars in
my pocket I mean if I was coming out I’d
be coming out in a chauffeured limo and
with a little bit of money in my pocket
it happened all by accident my dad who I
told you before I loved more than life
itself he thought of a great present a
great gift when we came out here first
of all he wasn’t happy we were coming to
Las Vegas it took him years to accept
the fact they were going to Las Vegas
because why was that what was he had the
impression that many people in the
public had at that time there was Sin
City and it wasn’t a place where people
should live or even then the reputation
was oh absolutely more so then they had
a book called the green felt jungle and
everybody read it they gave my father a
hundred copies of it he read it was
going crazy and some was going to Las
Vegas and when people said where’s Oscar
he said he moved to Phoenix he moved to
Las Vegas but he sent us a gift he sent
us $20 a month which doesn’t sound like
a lot but it was all the money in the
world with the proviso that it had to be
used for entertainment purposes it
couldn’t be used for rent couldn’t be
used to pay taxes it had to be used to
take Carolyn out to dinner to see a
movie something along that line
interesting there was a hotel where the
Mandalay now is it was called the
Hacienda and Carolyn she was the first
counter believe it or not
she didn’t know she was a card counter
but her parents played a game called to
concentration will you take 52 cards he
and turned them facedown so what you saw
was the cover of the card and you picked
up one at a time and you had to match
them with each other and when you match
them you took them off whoever had the
most at the end of it well that’s it my
way her mind work so we would have a
nice little dinner and usually he had
about five or ten dollars left over and
she would sit down to the blackjack
table and invariably she would play the
five or ten dollars and win and whenever
she won she put it in her purse and when
we lost she lost five or ten dollars I
was smart enough in those days to know
that he had to be thought of as a sucker
by the dealers and by the floor men and
by the pit bosses if you’re playing cuz
no one’s gonna beat them so I would
stand behind her and it was a different
Vegas in those days maybe a much
friendlier Vegas and I would talk to the
dealer the same dealer all the time sold
by them a Bob Butler he’s a very
pleasant guy very pleasant and we became
friends over the card deck one day calls
me up he said I’d like you to do a
little legal work for me and I did a
nice little legal work for $250 I still
remember including the cost
he was happy I was a good amount back
then that’s not a good amount was $250
but it and you rent us 80 87 bucks so
it’s kind of like $4,000 to me well it’s
the only a guy like you who’s that smart
could figure that out and you’re
absolutely right we carried on the
friendship after that a phone call came
in to the Hacienda pet who’s the best
criminal lawyer in Las Vegas nothing’s
changed over the years guy picks up the
phone he cups it who’s the best criminal
lawyer in Las Vegas
nakiya I did the $250 case for said call
Oscar and that’s the way it all started
Wow simple as that really it turned out
that the fella who called me was Bob
Martin Bob Martin was the odds maker for
the world Canada no that was no Horowitz
that Mel’s brother was the one who was
in trouble he called Bob who’s the best
criminal lawyer and they I get a phone
call at home come on over to second
structured address as excuse me
we haven’t Hayes for you so I say to
Caroline because I’m not brave she’s
brave I said sweetheart take a ride with
me because I was scared to go so we went
out early worse I was scared to death is
I you when you hear a voice like that I
wasn’t used to hearing a voice
like that come right over and I went up
to the door and a guy hands me an
envelope he says here’s your retainer
three dimes and you better win the case
I didn’t know what he was talking about
to me – whether he died mmm
so I said all right he says we got a
phone call tomorrow I said fine I go to
the car he said sweetheart
go around the corner let me look what’s
in this envelope I saw a 30 $100 bills
never saw so much money at one time in
my entire life and I said I better win
this case well I was the kind of case he
can’t win it was called a dire act where
this fellas who retained his brother was
caught in a stolen car
apparently in Arizona here in Nevada and
all the government had to prove was a
car was stolen and it was stolen and
taken across state lines and whoever is
behind the wheel 999 times out of a
thousand will be convicted well I got
real lucky I tried the case on st.
Valentine’s Day I think the jury must
have felt sorry for me and it’s I I
thought it was a fun story where we make
our closing arguments the jury is
instructed my law office was about a
block and a half from the courthouse
judge says be one call I said yes your
honor and walk back to my office and on
the way back the the mobster brother the
guy who was taking care of the fella I
represented he was a mobster
but a nice monster bookmaking type
offenses and they didn’t bother anybody
Berner it was a moneymaker
he didn’t yeah he didn’t hurt anybody he
says it better if the jury takes a long
time to come to its verdict or a short
time I said oh here I am I’m like a big
shot my first federal case I said oh
it’s not even close the longer they take
the better we are I walk into my office
the phone’s ringing
jury has a verdict oh I said I told you
the faster the better
we went back there they found him not
guilty well that’s the way it all
started because mr. Horowitz was a
friend of mine Lansky hmm and Meyer
Lansky was the national mob syndicates
financial genius he with he and Lucky
Luciano worthy the people most people
know lucky but Meyer Meyer is a he’s a
he’s a heavy guy I mean he’s like the
heaviest yeah I mean in the world of
that world yeah he was the biggest and
he got indicted out here we got in
her skin which is taking money before
taxes are being paid on it taking it out
of the system and he was living down in
Miami at the time his lawyer Dave rose
and was a friend of mine having met each
other in a case where we defended the
first wiretap case in the United States
down in Florida and I was fortunate
enough to have my clients severed and
the case was ultimately dismissed
against him so I developed a little bit
of a reputation through no fault of my
own I was a very very lucky fellow and
when Lansky gets indicted Rosen his his
real lawyer calls me and said will you
represent him on a local basis so I did
and there were some very prominent
defendants in the case the two fellows
who owned the Fontainebleau in Miami
were defendants of the case and they
were represented by world-class lawyers
Edward Bennett Williams from Washington
DC bill Hundley who was Robert Kennedy’s
right-hand man I’m filing motions to
dismiss based on Lansky’s poor health
and the government saying there’s
nothing wrong with Lansky we have
pictures of him walking his little
poodle down I wonder whether this is my
next-door neighbors poodle walking the
same poodle walking a poodle down 21st
in Collins showed pictures of Lansky and
I’m saying I have letters from the
doctor saying he’s too sick to go to
trial he’s do well and finally the
others go to trial they’re all found
guilty Lansky does not go to trial and
the judge dismisses his case so from
that point on I am the lawyer in the
country for certain kind of people you
no longer have to look for clients
everybody’s looking I have more clients
than any lawyer in the United States
what happened from there of just one
case after another I became an expert in
wiretap cases and represented a lot of
people whose last name ended in fouls
across the United States at cases in
Miami Philadelphia Boston New York New
Jersey South Carolina Macon Georgia of
all places tried for cases of Macon
Omaha Nebraska Representative fella by
name of Maxie the Little Giant Abramson
Los Angeles San Francisco ERISA all over
the place and it was the nation C of
wiretapping and I was able to pick apart
the government’s procedures and was
winning one case after another based on
irregularities under the wiretap statute
ultimately I won so many cases I taught
them how to do it right
so I killed my own practice in effect as
far as wiretaps were concerned but in
doing that I represented all these
people who were supposed reputed
mobsters around the country and whenever
they got in trouble when their children
got in trouble their relatives got in
trouble I got the phone call
now did you become friends with these
mobsters or wiseguys you call how do you
find friends so for instance like was it
what are you doing Friday night let’s go
to and we’re not talking business yeah
what do you do not go to watch it in the
donkeys game well all business except
when I was lucky enough to win a case we
went out to dinner and we celebrated but
half do you want to care there was
nothing that didn’t have to no no
because my wife taught me a lesson early
on she said don’t become your client I
said what do you mean she says if you
are like your clients and not that
they’re bad people they were very
charming they were very nice very
respectful but the judges looked at them
differently and she was saying if the
judges look at you as they do your
clients you will not have any
credibility with it so the clients
understood that and we did not have
social relationships we had friendly
relationships but not social why don’t
you you shared a story on what happened
when there was attorney context well no
it wasn’t an attorney it was interesting
I one of his associate yeah I had a
problem a judge had ordered me to turn
over financial transactions records and
financial transactions with one of my
clients and I knew what the law was in
the Ninth Circuit that financial
transaction is not covered by the
attorney-client privilege it’s only the
communication between the attorney and
the client I knew that but I felt that
was a bad law so I refused to turn it
over and the government brought a motion
to hold me in contempt of court and it
was a serious business because they
wanted me to be jailed forthwith I said
what is fourth with me and they said
right away I said well we’ll give him a
chance to appeal it and he said but if
you lose the appeal bring your
toothbrush I was under that cloud I had
a case in Boston I went up there my wife
joined me and we’re in the hotel room
nice hotel and the TV’s on what’s this a
white suburban going up and down the
highways in Los Angeles what’s the story
here and they were saying that OJ
Simpson
was being followed and chased as it
related to a murder that took place in
the Westwood area and just as we’re
watching it on TV I get a phone call
from a fella by the name of West who
represents himself as an agent of OJ
Simpson’s and they want me to come out
to Los Angeles immediately to represent
him and they were gonna set me a $25,000
retainer so I said I can’t they said
what do you mean you can’t I said I
can’t I have my own problems and I’m not
gonna take on somebody else’s problems
until I resolve my own so I had found
out that the first lawyer who got the
phone call was Howard Weitzman another
excellent lawyer who represented
DeLorean on the cocaine case and want it
and then after I passed I understand the
Robert Shapiro got the phone call he
brought in F lee Bailey and then Johnny
Cochran so he had a great team I would
have loved to have had that case but do
you know you have to do what’s right by
people and I just didn’t have the time
basically on my own problems to take on
somebody else’s you if you would have
taken a you think the results would have
been the same I think that the case was
decided the moment the case was moved
from Westwood through downtown Los
Angeles I think that the folks who lived
in downtown Los Angeles looked at Jason
sand as a deity and he could do no wrong
he was a hero of the community had gone
to school down there great football
player popular public figure running
through the airport
jumping over suitcases and everything in
a single bound and they weren’t about to
hurt him and I don’t know whether anyone
could have lost the case he Shapiro
Dasom they said do you think he did the
crime he says let me put it through this
way I haven’t even told my wife what I
think about this that was his answer yes
I’ve never even brought it up it doesn’t
really talk to his wife they’re not that
friend no I’m kidding no I’m kidding yes
a lovely wife there she knows that yeah
so I understand what so let me ask you
another question this is this is a part
of that world because when when I got
out of the military you know I didn’t
want to go to college but if I was gonna
go to college to become anything I was
gonna become an attorney you had a
really great lawyer that would be the
direction I would want to go that’s it
but you know the saying that’s look you
can get away with murder if you have
enough money and the right attorney
backing you up how much truth is there
behind that state well you know we’re a
capitalistic society and the way that we
reward excellence is by paying somebody
and excellent attorneys make a very good
living they do they charge a substantial
amount of money for their
representatives as services so I think
you’re probably if you have a lot of
money you’re going to get a better
lawyer than somebody who doesn’t have as
much money but on the other hand I’ve
seen some great public defenders who
make a meager salary in the scheme of
things put it their life into a case and
do as good a job as the most expensive
lawyer in the world so I think as a rule
of thumb you probably right money buys
an awful lot advise investigators it
buys the ability to have exhibits and it
buys time yeah in the sense that when
you’re getting paid you could take as
much time as a client could afford you
to take to properly prepare whereas
these poor public defenders they’re
overburdened and they have to move cases
in and out but I think that generally is
a good rule of thumb from your
standpoint you’re in that world I’m in a
financial world what would I like to
change about the financial world you
know in the basketball I don’t like the
ticky tack foul and you know I wish
they’d get away from ties in NFL why
should we have a tie this you play until
somebody wins you know all these things
that people think that would change
obviously in America you know how many
people we have in prison you know we are
the number one it’s way too many right
and then some people don’t get the fair
trial because they didn’t have the money
they didn’t have the support if there
was one or two or three things that you
don’t like about our current system in
place what would those things be well
the first one would be if you have an
FBI agent or a cop that the average
person on the street is supposed to
respect get on the witness stand and
take an oath I swear to tell the whole
truth and nothing but the truth so help
me God and then purgers perjures
themselves tell us a lie
they should be penalized substantially
for that and it never happens they don’t
even get a slap on the wrist they don’t
even get a letter of reprimand in their
file they go on
and lie in the next case that’s the one
thing I would do I would change that
immediate how do you change that though
you make sure that the either judges
direct a prosecutor with a lie is taking
place in that district to take the case
before a grand jury and to see whether
the grand jury wants to indict that
person for perjury
is there somebody you’re insinuating are
you talking like a Comey are you talking
anybody no I’m talking about just about
every case I was involved in where where
the prosecutor or the FBI agent or the
local cop lied and nothing ever happened
to them
yeah and that’s outrageous okay so you
would change the level of accountability
for them what else would you change
about it the system as far as a bail is
concerned I think that they should use
more house arrest they shouldn’t keep
somebody incarcerated who’s presumed to
be innocent just because he’s unable to
post a monetary figured in order to get
out that’s something that there’s a
pretty easily worked out but it takes a
it takes some time to do it it takes
some commitment to do it I think there
has to be reform along that line are you
saying here’s the 20 crimes one can make
at the bottom forty percent we can take
three million people out and have them
be held and just throw in a number out
there you know we can take 300 thousand
people and they can be housed right and
put something on there and we can track
where they’re exact Channel what you’re
saying i electronic monitor that if they
abscond then the alarm will go off do
they make money to pay for food how are
they able to work what happens though
there are Arrangements where they’re
allowed to during the daytime go and get
to their job and then return they can’t
with the government pay for their food
allowance or no if no no I’m not asking
for a welfare state here I’m not curious
no I’m not suggesting that at all
they’re suggesting that somebody
shouldn’t be penalized because they’re
their financial position what are your
thoughts about what to do to minimize
some of the time for these guys that
well certainly one thing that I feel is
very very bad and it’s interesting
because it applies at the very very top
of the rung and very very bottom of the
rung and that’s when a prosecutor makes
a decision who he’s going to give a pass
to in order to have that person testify
against somebody else we see it
happening with Cohen
the fixer the lawyer for drop new Trump
said is my best friend my lawyer my
loyal wonderful great until he flips and
and now he’s a rat and I think I if I
have to predict and I think the same
thing is going to happen with Manta fort
where he’s going to look nobody gets a
deal like manna fort
unless he’s ready to give a fella like
molar the the candy store the you don’t
let a guy he walk away from eight counts
where he’s found guilty facing another
trial where he’s looking at basically
doing a life sentence at his age and say
the most you’re ever going to get is ten
years if you work with us now
what does working with us mean it means
that you are going to fully cooperate
and I’ve been in rooms seeing how they
asked them to cooperate if they don’t
like what the person saying they said no
no that’s not cooperation you know more
than that until they finally say what
the prosecutor feels the prosecutor
wants to hear and then they then the
person has kept the deal let them walk
away from murderers I’m gonna give a
speech here in about a week well no
later on this week I’m speaking to a
group here at the Plaza and I’m gonna go
through one case after another where
they allowed guys who killed four people
who killed eight people who killed 16
people who main two who had prison riots
where they welded different parts of the
guards body together they let him walk
and you know where they walk they go
into the witness protection program and
they become your next-door neighbor and
nobody tells you what these people did
you could be living next to the most
evil killer in the world you won’t know
the difference
that you don’t make deals like that with
the devil that spawns perjury that
spawns lies you shouldn’t be able to
make a you know saying that now
President Trump all of a sudden it dawns
on them
that’s this isn’t fair these guys are
gonna become rats so they could testify
against me that’s not fair that’s not
the way it should work so you’re hearing
it from the very top now so how do you
think Trump is doing I think I think the
country is doing very well financially I
don’t know whether it’s attributed to
him or whether it’s a carryover to the
prior administration or administration’s
I think he’s very very clever that he
appeals to his base with the tweets and
the Twitter’s whatever those things are
called but I also think the
somewhere down the line if he ever has a
proceeding they’re going to be able to
use those as statements against his
personal interest and he’s making a heck
of a record against himself if he’s not
telling the truth I think he has a bad
habit unfortunately of I’m not going to
say lying because lying is a very
technical word but saying one thing one
day and then saying the exact opposite
the next day and now that he has
Giuliani as his straw man out there he’s
compounding the situation so I think
from a legal point of view he’s not
doing so hot
I think Muller is playing everything
very close to the vest I think he’s
doing what a prosecutor’s supposed to do
that he’s not trying his case in the
media but Trump can help himself he he
tries his case and he appeals to people
who will never find him guilty of
anything because they love him but on
the other hand I’m not sure he’s helping
himself
you also had a falling-out with Obama
back in this is like a financial crisis
time right now no no about ten years ago
he made a comment about Vegas said hey
your dad made you make two comments made
two comments yeah and you were upset
about this upset you I mean it was I was
outraged it was it was national news so
I was outraged what what happened there
all right were you out here I’m sitting
I’m sitting as the chairman of the
convention authority conducting a
meeting and somebody comes up to me they
said do you what the president said I
said what are you talking about he said
that people should not fly their private
planes to the Superbowl and shouldn’t go
out to Las Vegas and Gamble their money
I said that president wouldn’t say
something like that that’s like saying
that don’t don’t eat the oranges in
Florida or don’t buy cars in Detroit
same thing I said now he couldn’t have
said that so at the end of the meeting I
said did anybody hear that some
high-ranking officials said something
that about Las Vegas nobody raised her
and then afterwards some reporter comes
up to me said it was the president he
said that I said he owes us an apology
well you know if people took a front of
that how can this mayor say that the
president owes a city an apology I said
I said it but I’ll back off if you don’t
like the word apology he better
straighten the situation out and say
Vegas is a heck of a place to come to
for meetings and conventions there’s no
better place and then when you’re
through
business you have a good time he says
that I’m cool I write him a letter and I
said I expect you to say that I think
it’s only right because the next day
Patrick the day after he made that
statement 312 meetings and conventions
cancelled come on I don’t lie okay
hundred and 312 meetings and conventions
canceled the next day coming to Las
Vegas a major convention paid six
hundred thousand dollars to get out of
their contractual obligation and went to
San Francisco now I’m not I love San
Francisco you know they have a nice
bridge you can’t see it because of the
fog but it’s a nice bridge but the price
is there are way higher here 3x is good
I mean as far as a convention location
we have a hundred fifty five thousand
rooms no places further than fifteen
minutes away from the airport it’s a
perfect spot but they paid to get out of
it and they went up there so I don’t
hear anything
and I’m boiling I’m steamy he makes
another statement to a high school group
same thing people should not spend their
money in Las Vegas at the expense of
paying their children’s college to it
now what’s wrong with that though you
know to his defense
oh yes to hear from this guy about Las
Vegas the president the economy’s bad
he’s telling you to save money but he’s
pointing less offense
oh I’m not going to defend him the guy
he hurt our town and on the mayor and
I’m protecting our town it’s that simple
okay I don’t care whether he’s right or
wrong he hurt my town how long did you
feel it until the following took place
every Memorial Day I visited the
chapel’s all over town when I was the
mayor and I paid my respects to the
fallen and to those who served it’s a
beautiful day
mmm gorgeous got through about 11:30 and
I have a little koi pond in my backyard
and I love going to my backyard watching
my koi and turning my classical music on
and reading a little book and the phone
rings I run into the house oh and I also
had started on my second martini at
11:30 they run into the house
hello the mayor there I said there’s a
mayor he said this is a congressman Rahm
Emanuel the president’s chief of staff
at the time but he called himself
congressman I said what could I do for
you sir he says I hear you have a
problem with the president I said I’ve
got a big problem with the president he
says what we’d like to work it out
because he’s coming out we want you to
meet him at the tarmac I said I wouldn’t
meet this president the tarmac if he’s
the last president earth you didn’t say
that I told you I don’t lie I assured
this wouldn’t meet and I wouldn’t lay
the last president on earth right
he hurt my city no he says I think we
could probably rectify the situation I
said I yes for that a long time ago I
said what do you suggest I suggest when
he comes out he tells the people don’t
feigus is a great place to do business a
great place to have fun he’ll do that
for you I said he does that for me I’ll
meet him at the tarmac so he comes you
know the way he walked comes bouncing
off the plane and oh yeah the wise guy
mayor he says that’s the first remark to
me I said I don’t think I’m a wise guy
he says well they say you have a lot of
fancy suits I’m not sure that makes me
into a wise guy maybe a mob guy but not
a wise guy he says I hear you’re angry
at me I said I’m boiling he says well I
think I was grating it out I said no you
better not think you’re straightening it
out you better straighten it out because
I’m out here meaning you based on the
premise that you’re straightening it out
you didn’t straighten it out you didn’t
straighten it out so I had it with them
and I said to my wife when she became
the mayor I said you’re gonna meet this
guy at the airport she says I’m not you
he surprised the United States he’s
coming to my town it’s only right that I
meet the president itíd States I said
you do what you have to do I do what I
have to do so we don’t agree on that one
point did that cause you to go from
being a Democrat to an independent or he
did so that was the reason no that
wasn’t the reason else was a result
because I felt that as the mayor I
shouldn’t be looking at people as ours
or die’s on the mayor for everybody
because of the way my popularity went
everybody was in favor not everybody I
mean only 84 percent were in favor of me
being the mayor so I changed for that
reason but I did change from independent
or nonpartisan
to
Democrat when I got angry at Trump one
day I ran down there in jail now I’m
going to change it again i partisan yes
that part’s interesting because you know
as a mayor you are more with the people
on a daily basis so I can see how you’re
saying I can’t really be on a political
side because I have to deal with people
on a day to day basis yeah you know I
often thought when I was sitting up
there presiding over the city council
meetings in particular the constituents
were very close to me as close as you
are almost I’m sitting up there and
they’re coming to me with their
grievances and they’re seeking redress
and I thought back and I said you know
this is exactly what the framers of the
Constitution we’re talking about when
they said we the people and they did not
want their leaders to be monarchs they
wanted them to be representatives and I
loved it everyone said when I ran for
office I would hate the city council
meetings it was my favorite time but it
really made me feel like I was down with
the people when I was presiding over
these meetings I really enjoyed it and I
have my like that line you were down
with the people well that’s true because
I’m sitting up here yeah and the people
are down there speaking to me up here
but I had my coffees with the mayor I
did that once a month I had my martinis
with the mayor which I did every night
officially we did it once a month and it
gave people an opportunity to come to a
local bar and have a drink with me or go
to a local Starbucks or tea and leave
whatever they call those places and have
a cup of coffee on me and I wanted to
hear what they had to say that’s what
the mayor is there for and I think
that’s probably why you went from 67 to
87 to you know whatever to 87 right it’s
a 65 to 87th 82 to 84 84 yeah I mean
listen anything above 65 is respect
anything about 55 you’re doing really
good when I won by 65 35 the first time
they said it was a landslide I felt it
Zoey I don’t well that’s a landslide
well I don’t think so but yes that’s
you’re competitive so let me ask you if
I come in is it fair to say that if I
walk into your living room I’m not gonna
say a massive painting of Barack Obama
and Trump in your living room is that a
pretty fair assessment I think that’s
very fair however when you come to
Oscars where we’re
today my little restaurant there I have
a picture of mr. Trump when he was mr.
Trump and I have a picture of President
Obama and that’s the picture by the way
it with a President Obama of him coming
off the plane you could see I am NOT
happy when I first was elected mayor we
acquired 61 acres downtown which we now
call Symphony Park and that’s what I saw
was a future for Las Vegas with great
academic medicine with a wonderful
performing arts he came out he wanted to
build the buildings yep and he built a
beautiful building and he builds
beautiful buildings and the one thing I
wasn’t able to accomplish as the mayor
was to bring professional sports here I
made the inroads by talking to
Commissioner Bettman with the NHL and
David Stern with the NBA and then Adam
silver but my wife is the one she she
capped the deal so we have the Raiders
coming here we’ve got the you got some
hate for that you got some hate for not
getting the teams to move out here you
started it with you you got some
criticism for about criticism but who’s
criticizing it’s important to know that
anybody that does anything you know at
the highest level you’re gonna get that
criticism is there always a couple
people who are I call misanthropes they
get up in the morning and they hate I
mean they hate when they get out of bed
all I could do with these misanthropes I
pray to God I pray to God that a
misanthrope is living with another
misanthrope and they hate each other and
from the moment they wake up in the
morning they aggravate each other to
death it’s not a counter negative like
they end up loving each other like when
you hate each other like Tula hates
becomes a lot although it doesn’t become
a love but I just hope they hate each
other to death
and we got a couple misanthropes around
here so let me ask you this you know you
know how you always like you you hear
the stories and you don’t know how much
truth there is behind it some use think
to something you don’t think there’s
when when when wanted to go to Atlantic
City Trump did whatever he could for him
to not get their life that’s what they
say yeah and then when Trump wanted to
come over here when work this so how
much different is there behind that I
don’t know it’s the same thing as well
you asked me whether somebody’s guilty
whether sitting in my wife you know
their guys really good unless you’re in
the fray
you really can’t say what’s really
happening all I know is this as a mayor
you were you you wouldn’t know like you
wouldn’t hear stories to say like you
hear it but it’s hearsay it I don’t know
whether the rumors that it happened
neither one of them has a life I
understand that but it’s like everything
else I’m too busy to worry about other
people’s business if I was a mediator
and had to put people together and get
the job done I’m there yeah but if you
get Trump that he has a life license you
wouldn’t he keep building here I’m like
bring it brings more economy here wasn’t
very no we’re doing pretty good Las
Vegas is back we he’s not gonna come
build casinos now as a president he’s
not gonna come and put the president
Trump casino plate well yeah don’t bet
on that either that could happen because
who knows what’s gonna happen with the
next term so here’s a technical question
for you now this is just a historic
question I’m Kherson of what you’re
gonna say about it say the folks from
East Coast don’t say and encourage this
guy good-looking guy who was a charm or
suave had a temper but he had these blue
eyes a guy named Bugsy say they don’t
ask him to come to Vegas say he doesn’t
buy flamingos say he doesn’t see Hoover
Dam say none of that stuff takes place
what’s Vegas today well without that
well I’ll tell you what it was back in
1905 when that’s the official time when
we say Las Vegas was created right where
we’re sitting today right on the ground
down there they had an auction and we we
peg our history from the day of that
auction this was a watering hole the
cattle that was being transported from
Salt Lake City to Los Angeles and
vice-versa they would stop here the cows
will get off they would water because
there were these ripe Irian Springs and
that’s why we were founded they built
the dam people came here they built the
air force base the army air force base
in those days now called Nellis and
nothing really what’s happening as far
as the economy was concerned and then we
were the first place to legalize
gambling and there were a couple small
places but Siegel’s the first one to
come here and to build the mega
structure out at the Flamingo I had some
places interest in the downtown joints
but it was a Flamingo and that went bust
as far as the mob was concerned they
were very unhappy with Salone was
shortly thereafter he was a slain at
Virginia Hill his girlfriend’s home in
Beverly Hills and huh
what would be without somebody else
would have done it once we had lost
somebody else would have done oh I
believe that yes so you could see Bugsy
you don’t think irrelevant Vegas is
still gonna end up me in Vegas right but
it went through iterations in order to
get where it was when Bugsy was here he
was working under the aegis of Lansky
and then the other fellows came in
basically there were a lot of Jewish
fellows who were the front people for
the the Italian guys who really owned
hidden ownership of the hotels here and
it was a great town in those days
because each one of these hotels was
owned by one group they weren’t subject
in the New York Stock Exchange Exchange
in the filing of forms and they didn’t
have the careful supervision over the
the gaming so to speak it was wide open
it was a bargain people came here when
my wife came here with myself in 1964 we
were able to go into a place called the
Thunderbird it’s not here
we used to implode our history when I
became the mayor I stopped the implosion
so they got a renovate and do it over
again but we went to the Thunderbird we
saw Frankie laine nobody remembers him
but he was a great singer Sarah Vaughan
who was a great singer didn’t charge us
we went in there they gave us free
drinks free food they were happy to have
us I don’t know why I felt like a big
shot I tipped the maitre d $2 came out I
was wondering what it meant when he put
his hand out like that that’s that’s
when you knew he expected to be rewarded
but we had a drink we enjoyed ourselves
now you have to pay for parking so I
think we have to watch ourselves here I
know there are a lot of people are gonna
be upset that I’m saying that but we
we’re a symbol of something here we’re
symbol of freedom we’re a symbol of
people who think they’re getting
something for nothing people who know
they’re gonna have a good time and when
we impose surcharges or rooms room taxes
entertainment taxes parking fees I think
we detract from what we are supposed to
be and we better not kill the Golden
Goose that has laid an egg here that has
provided a pretty darn good life for all
of us who live here you think that’s
similar to what’s happening to America
where
could become so rich where we say let’s
start making welfare state and give
everything else we’re free to bear this
original people at first you know
created this brought this system of
capitalism and now that were so rich
let’s let’s get all these free problems
because we can afford it now I think
certain programs have to be free for
people who can’t afford it certain
health programs I think that’s very very
important I think that we have to
address the homeless problem just about
every city in the United States has a
major homeless problem we’re in a
position here in Las Vegas we set it up
where as somebody who once helped gets
help somebody who one shelter gets
shelter but there’s so many folks out
there many of whom are veterans who come
back and they really have suffered
mentally and emotionally and they do not
want the help that the city is ready to
give them we have to be able to reach
out and take those people in our bosom
and make sure that they’re provided for
as far as medication and food and
they’re just the common things that
people expect in life interest but don’t
give anything away to those who can earn
it themselves that’s where I am nobody
gave bet you and nobody ever gave you
anything for nothing no not not not this
guy so and what amazes me these days and
I’m not complaining because I had jobs
that people would laugh at I love them
all I was a janitor at a community
center I clean toilets and men’s rooms
and ladies that’s why I never use a
public restroom because I know the way I
used to clean them I wouldn’t go near
them I sold fuller brushes I sold
encyclopedias I had every job in the
world and I loved every single day your
attitude your attitude at these 15 16 17
year old kids they’ve never had a job
and they’re complaining they go away to
college that they should go into the
army they should have the mandatory
service and get to some maturity and
learn how to do something before they
start spending their parents money we’re
on the same page with that so so let’s
go through some of the people you
represent it ok and and and then maybe
some that you know I don’t even mention
that you may have some stories to to
cover obviously we talk on Meyer Lansky
yes and Fat Tony Salerno I know you went
through Nicky Scarfo Philly Leonetti
Stardust casino boss Frank lefty
Rosenthal Jimmy Chuck me something
I represented everybody you represented
pretty much everybody but why don’t we
talk about Tony right let’s watch over
this very interesting guy a very
interesting because the FBI and the the
local charges him of killing 22 people
he said they say 22 now used to be 27
all my clients got killed 27 people
according to maybe the five are alive
now they I don’t know the authorities
always said Goodman’s clients killed
this guy kill 27
I said not 26 I mean you read a story
about the Tony putting a guy’s head in a
case I spied on the case so so did it
happen did it as far as I’m concerned I
want the case a jury they’ve found him
that girl maybe he got a good attorney
maybe he was innocent me maybe he had
good money maybe yeah cuz you know maybe
he was a well two attorneys they paid me
well I’m sure they did and you’re a good
attorney well thank you so how does the
how does the populace know if it
happened if it didn’t happen and is that
okay if we don’t you don’t what what
difference does make it okay if we don’t
sure it’s okay because the only thing
that matters is what the jury has to say
yeah but you went out you also went back
when I asked you I said what would you
change about the laws you said I don’t
like the fact that some of these FBI
agents can get on and they can abuse
their power that’s correct it’s a but
you have to bring that out I bring that
out during the case and you hope you
have some reporter who’s not out in the
hallways but also said you said you’d
rather have your daughter day Tony than
to date an FBI agent yeah I did I just
don’t believe that Tony Avella I’ll
never lied to me I never had an FBI
agent in any case that I ever tried tell
the whole truth under oath on the stand
how do you like that that’s your
reasoning how do you like that that’s
that’s that’s scary and I didn’t let him
get away and it was a very bad winner
you know you talk about bad losers I
wasn’t a bad loser if I lost I lost I
was a bad winner because I made him
suffer and when the jury came back and
said that because the way I tried my
case the government only had to do two
things because I rarely put a client on
the witness stand do two things one they
had to follow the Constitution not a bad
rule and they shouldn’t engage in
prosecutorial misconduct
by holding up a pair of panties with red
paint on it and saying that the woman
was raped and the jury supposed to think
his blood okay United States Supreme
Court they said that’s wrong but before
they said it was wrong we started all
the time yeah you you said so many good
things about Tony
so yes that was a nice man
they even said 20 was an even I think
your mother one-time mid Tony you know
why Indian you know what I said your
mother said they didn’t even treat me
like his mom they treated me like a lady
being like a lady and she used to say
Oscars clients never hurt anybody they
just killed each other
okay and she also said Oscars clients
took me to the best Italian restaurants
that’s not bad but when Tony’s Palacio
came you wish you had friends like Tony
Scott show when they came into my office
they said hello to my secretaries good
morning when they asked for a cup of
coffee may I please have it when they
got a cup of coffee they said thank you
for it you can’t ask for more than that
you can’t answer Brenda I know a lot of
big shots okay who don’t say good
morning to people and it’s true who
don’t thank people you could have those
guys so then it becomes the level of
value on what is at the top because if
I’m gonna take out somebody among family
or within a community I’m a part of
maybe you think that’s okay like if I’m
going to go against somebody else that’s
in my community you’ve chosen to live
the life of being a made man or a capo
and you cross us we got to do something
about it where they live you know I had
the case up in Massachusetts
representing Vinnie Ferrara mm-hmm they
caught the prosecutor in order to
prejudice the public against him at a
speech in front of other prosecutors
refer to him as the animal Vinnie the
enemy he said they would never call him
that it wasn’t to his face yes and his
sister was a nun they never called her a
penguin this guy loved his little doggie
and when the judge had Vinnie in front
of him and listened to the wiretap that
Vinnie did not know he was being
recorded on he said these people have
their own code I don’t agree with their
code but they follow their own code and
he says you know there’s something
decent about a lot of them when you get
to know them you don’t look at what the
other side says they are let me ask you
a question if they’re so decent
would you support the fact to bring more
wise men and mobsters back so we can
have more you know of their culture come
back is that also what you’re saying I’m
not saying that I’m not saying that
they’re decent in the way they treat
people who are not part of their culture
who have crossed this oh it was a Tony
good for society from my perspective it
was a very nice fella
now from the
authorities perspective he killed 27
people and they said to me how can I
represent a guy like Tony’s mulatto who
killed 27 people how can you represent a
guy when you know he’s guilty how can
you do that I said wait a second
you’re the cop how could you not put him
in jail if he killed 27 people he’s
walking around never spent a day in jail
so who’s wrong me or you
sorry I get excited I mean look at you
you you’re a professional for what
you’re doing and by the way his life
Tony’s life was played by Joe Pesci as I
think Nicky Santoro or something like
that in Cassini yeah I forget hothead
but he had charm and you’re saying it
was he did a heck of a job when I played
myself in the movie and when I went out
to the Wardrobe set the first day it was
like deja la Yogi Bear would say yeah
it’s like Jay deja vu all over again I
see it this little fella
with a crooked arm holding your valise
Tony and Tony he was dead if good it was
Pesci he looked just like him he looked
just like him when you got shot the
movie did they ever come over like I
know you said well they come on but
pressure came over as well like you okay
do I have the all came to play okay
demise that experience I thought is the
greatest of De Niro’s very quiet fella
Pesci very noisy fell in with the cigars
dunk got my whole home shower in stone
came over and it was great
Lane Wynn was there she’s a
multi-billionaire and Sharon Stone’s not
doing bad and Carolyn Goodman’s all
right and it was great seeing the three
ladies doing the dishes together that
was pretty cool Scorsese was there
Pileggi was there Stacy was yeah they
were all there and we had a wonderful
time we really did was it it was a great
dinner and the Carolyn made a great meal
and everybody enjoyed themselves let me
ask you is it true that when Mike Tyson
bit Evander Holyfield’s ear up part of
his ear of you represented him did you
did yes and is it it was the referee of
that match also the judge or was it and
it was in not the jaw he was so this the
referee of that match was also the judge
in court
yeah Mills Lane not not no no I appeared
on behalf of Tyson before the Nevada
Athletic Commission and I was brilliant
the evidence was pretty clear that the
year was off okay you know one could
argue that but everybody was saying well
take a year suspension that’s the best
you’re gonna be able to do because
they’ve already grabbed the purse three
million dollars so one of the fellas on
the commission who was a good friend of
mine and I’m not gonna say he wasn’t
calls me in the back room and he said
Oscar you may not want to do this
suspension thing you may want us to
revoke him I said well revoke
revocations much more serious in a
suspension he says no we have to
revocation you could come back and
reapply after a year whereas on a
suspension you had to do the whole time
so I’m thinking to myself you know Tyson
brought in so much money to this
community just being on the billboard
saying he’s gonna fight brought people
in from all over the world to watch him
fight it was a real event I said looking
at this economically I don’t think that
they would not I think they would give
him his license back so we took the
revocation and he got his license back
the first day that the year went by and
it was a brilliant move not me I mean I
just followed the lead there but it’s
nice to have friends in high places too
I was hired by Don King you know it’s
funny when I was a baby lawyer my first
time I represented King was when Roberto
Duran you know the No Mas Sansa stone
yep No Mas
he was tried against Obama – hey Zeus
and the IRS had come in and they were
putting a block on the fight over some
tax lien and Don came to me the night of
the fight I was able to get the fight on
and from that point on just about every
year the first fee I counted on was
gonna be a dime key referral Wow yeah
every year I got myself a nice chunk as
a result of having done the good you
know fan of DOC Cain
I like Don King yeah I’m using you know
so he paid his debt okay so a couple
names yeah I’m just curious to know you
know one of the things Dean shunned all
said this is this is a Jenelle yeah this
is a very interesting story okay so he’s
a boxer he’s rodeo guys he’s Luke Allen
– the actor actor handsome yeah he’s a
rodeo guy he used to carry a bag between
here in st. Louis whatever that means
and tough guy but a nice guy well he
gets some
my opinion set him up the law I went
into his he had a beautiful ranch out
here where he used to rope cattle and
the local sheriff was his best friend
and my kids used to go out there on the
weekend and ride little ponies and three
wheelers and the like so he calls me up
one day he’s arrested what for
possession of an unregistered silencer
I said Dean I said that’s uh that’s sort
of a done deal if they find it in your
home unless you have a reason that I’m
framed but no one’s gonna believe the
frame I didn’t have the silence here but
no one’s gonna believe that so we go
into the courtroom they read the
indictment possession of an unregistered
silencer and we had a visiting judge
from Los Angeles federal court and he
says mr. Goodman may I see you at my
chambers and the prosecutor says yes we
know he says I want to see mr. Goodman
which is you know you’re not supposed to
go and meet with the judge they called
ex parte without the other side there
but this judge asked for me to come back
he says what are you doing he says you
have a reputation as a good lawyer why
are you wasting my time I said Your
Honor I got a defense he says you have a
defense for this I said yes I said mr.
Shindell is an avid hunter he loves to
hunt ducks but he’s a terrible shot so
we had the silencer in case he missed
the first shot and didn’t want to scare
the ducks away judge says you’re kidding
I’m gonna give him probation right now
so I went out there said Dean you got
probation
I don’t want probation I went back I
said Your Honor I said I couldn’t
dismiss the case right now if this was
the case done deal
Thunder silence here he goes hunted
great defense that’s called creative
it’s called making up a creative story
Wow Wow and it worked it was effective
it working by the way this is what he
said about you once he said Oscar is a
stand-up guy he wouldn’t give you up you
can fry him in an electric chair and he
still wouldn’t give you up he’s a man’s
man I consider myself a tough guy I’ll
stand up against any man but I’m not
half the man Oscar is he’s got brain
guts and heart and another man called
you he said the Oscar is known for being
a strategist and he said you you have
your own code you live by and no one can
break that code what is that code you
live
code I mean you even told the guy is a
trick bacon that the FBI guy you told me
said I have a code I live by so what are
some of the elements of your own code
honesty time integrity your word is your
bond you’re loyal and you never cross
the line when I ran for mayor everybody
said you know he’s the mobs lawyer one
of my opponents had a little I have bad
temper sometimes and we never see no one
of my opponents had a little TV ad with
little cartoons of guys with masks on
and carried little bags of money with a
dollar sign on it and hypodermic needles
and my wife said you may not watch TV I
said what do mean that way can’t watch
TV she says you may not watch TV until
this election is over I said what are
you talking about
she says you will have this guy whacked
if you ever see this ad well they were
whack able ads but I had a veteran I
brought pot prosecutors FBI agents that
had come into contact with who were on
the other side and they all said you
know we don’t like Oscar but he never
crossed the line I can’t do better than
that
why I said they came to your defense
that’s pretty interesting it is but now
strategy-wise just just out of curiosity
you’re you got to be mentally tough
emotionally tough guy to be in a city
like this to deal with it well let me
tell you a very interesting Jack Binion
that’s a very important name to our
community his father Benny Binion Benny
came out with the reputation as being a
murderer in Texas and kind of made his
stake here and opened up the Horseshoe
Hotel here very very popular that’s
where all the poker events were taking
place and he had a family in one of his
sons Jack pinion sort of took over the
Empire Jack is a very quiet guy very
smart guy very decent guy and the two of
us we’re talking one day were on the
roof of the horseshoe looking over Las
Vegas it was his domain of my domain and
he said you know if you’re not strong
this place will eat you alive and I
listened to him it’s very very true I’m
a degenerate gambler
but I don’t gamble more than I could
afford I never would
my family be affected by it I’m a I’m a
drunk but not that it affected my
ability to be a halfway decent lawyer
and a halfway decent family man but you
have to know what your limitations are
and if you violate those limitations
you’re going to get in a lot of trouble
especially in Las Vegas and that’s
actually what you said opening when you
were running for mayor at the you said
I’ve never been to the City Hall I drink
I gamble and they love you for it it’s
almost like you pulled off your like the
M&M of politics oh you know what it was
and my son who was in the Marine Corps
today I made called and I said you know
Ross they were gonna send a straw man in
Police Protective Association doesn’t
want to see me the mayor they’re gonna
send somebody in the debates you they’re
gonna talk about my drinking am i
running around and my this and my that
he says dad you have to do a preemptive
strike I said what are you talking about
Russ he said you don’t know where to
preemptive strike is I said no tell me
he says you got to beat them to the
punch so they sent up some guy and he
says when’s the last time you’ve been in
City Hall mr. Goodman turns around
starts walking off a Saturday wait a
second buddy everybody in the audience
is you don’t talk to a potential voter
that way I said wait a second buddy you
come back here and you look at me I’m
gonna answer your question he slinked
back and looked up and I said well you
asked me a question
don’t walk away and saying the answer to
your question is I’ve never been in City
Hall you have anything else you want to
ask me and I looked at the audience and
I said I don’t want to hear any more
questions that I’m gonna answer now
without a question I’m a drunk okay
don’t call me after 5:00 I’ll talk to
you you’ll think I’m sober but I won’t
remember so don’t call me after 5:00 and
as far as gambling is concerned if I saw
a cockroach here and it ran left I would
bet on it going left or right so don’t
ask me about that anything else that was
the end of the race is the campaign end
of the race locally here you know the
stories about Sinatra Dean Martin did
you have any run-ins with them not
run-ins I was friendly with Sammy Davis
jr. mm-hmm I was involved when I was a
baby lawyer with some business
negotiations on his behalf I was invited
to it’s a horrible thing to say to a
birthday party for Sinatra’s mom the
night that her plane crashed and she was
killed so that was a disaster
well yeah a terrible terrible thing
did you spend time with Sinatra like did
you know he never made it he didn’t make
it to the party but we were all there
waiting for him to be there I knew you
know Jerry Lewis was my next-door
neighbor around the street we were good
friends Shecky Greene Don Rickles I mean
I mean or Moe Greene any any experience
of Moe Greene or no no but Moe said way
yes okay so I’m not as a local doctor
here it’s interesting by how the
children are these supposed monsters
that did very very well for themselves
and became community leaders it’s
interesting yeah you said something in
no.6 you said there was a game that came
out of a shooting game rainbow I think
was rainbow something uh where they kiss
dispersions unless yeah I wanted to
borrow that – you wanted a bar that and
sure there’s you feel when the shooting
happened a couple years ago in Vegas did
it make you think about your comments in
O six or not at home now
no in O six hours the mayor so you think
of things one way when you’re the mayor
and this year on October the first my
wife is a mayor and she got the phone
call about twenty of eleven and didn’t
see her for three days after that she
was in the hospital taking care of it
best she could assisting the first
responders so no no I didn’t think of at
that time I just I felt it was a
terrible shame because I felt we’re a
community that’s very safe and this was
not a terrorist attack but could show
you what one evil person he wasn’t crazy
this guy he was just he was evil yeah
what what an evil guy could do it is a
disaster like me wrong like me wrong guy
give you a name first thing that comes
to your mind okay anything that comes to
your mind first thing that comes to mind
James call me Bombay Sapphire Raiders
Las Vegas tequila people who are in
series drinkers people who are in series
drinkers look at John Gotti a victim of
Sammy the bull Gravano La Cosa Nostra I
like to call it a lot kosher Nostra and
think of pastrami Oh Bugsy somebody
who’s nuts really oh yeah Obama don’t
like him Hillary Clinton don’t like her
John McCain I knew John McCain I had a
fight with John McCain too but I
respected him and I think it was a great
American Giuliani
no respect none zero I want to finish on
a good note I was a good let me give you
a good note Joe Lewis boxer he was one
of my favorite people witness in one of
my cases back in New York there’s no way
in the world I could help my client
until I brought Joe Lewis into the
courtroom and the judge said mr. Kenan I
said yes your honor here’s the guy who
didn’t talk to me for the whole truck
mister come up here like I’m his best
friend
he says is that whether who I think it
is
I said that’s Joe Lewis he says kinky
get me his autograph come on
I said I sure can from that point on
every denial was granted granted granted
very cool well Oscar thank you so much
for taking the time I know we were
trying to set it up to get together it’s
good to do it at your restaurant I love
your you humor your knowledge your wit
your energy your mental toughness the
whole night this was just a fascinating
conversation this way I’m a lucky fella
I’m involved with the plaza the great
restaurant here people come up here have
a wonderful time great buzz and I
participated in the buzz so I’m the
happiest guy who ever loved a final Wars
mob story when Michael Franzese I know
we’re very good for Michael yourself as
well right mob story it’s going to be a
noble experiment it’s in the downtown
area
it’s a artistic piece with the Jeff
Kitaj who had the splash show running
for years out of the Riviera but I
understand the music’s great the
Dancing’s great Michael Franzese is in
it
they say he’s riveting as far as his
presentation is concerned so I’m really
looking forward to seeing it and tonight
hear reason we have to wind up is we’re
gonna have concierge is from all the
community here and then we’re gonna have
the media here later on the week and
everybody’s gonna love mob story well
I’m gonna go to tonight by the way if
you haven’t if you’re ever in Vegas
click on the link below to find out more
information about the mob story and
aside from that any questions thoughts
comments about today’s interview comment
below if you haven’t subscribed do so as
well ask her again thank you so much for
thank you Patrick appreciate you you’re
a not only are you a bright guy but ya
got that beautiful twinkle in your eye
it’s great I appreciate that true thank you right thank you very much
he says I hear you have a problem with
the president I said I got a big problem
with the president we want you to meet
him at the time like I said I wouldn’t
meet this president the tarmac if he’s
the last President on earth you didn’t
say that
how about cocaine how about heroin
you’re legalizing that so a wallet so
legalize all of it all right and if they
want to kill it don’t let me kill them
so soon legalize coke legalized her own
legalized prostitution with cut comes
off of somebody does graffiti she used
to say Oscars clients never hurt anybody
they just killed each other I mean you
read a story about their Tony putting a
guy’s head in a case I spied on the case
so adesso did it happen did it you know
the saying look you can get away with
murder if you have enough money and the
right attorney backing you up how much
truth is there behind that stage well so
today we’re sitting with somebody I’ve
been looking forward to this meeting
we’ve been going back and forth finally
we could get the schedules to work
together Oscar Goodman to introduce him
properly is a three-time mayor of Vegas
then as a wife follows up and comes the
mayor Debbie you know your wife and
mayors for what 19 20 years now big
almost 20 years we’ve never been done
before I’ve never done before in the
United States he has been known as a mop
a turn knob there’s no such thing as a
mob come on Patrick
you said this was gonna be a legitimate
interview I told you that but after all
the fights and battles I said you got to
open up you got to talk to us City so I
appreciate you like you want me to rat
out the mob and maybe we’re gonna get to
a little bit of that I don’t know some
of the questions here we got is gonna be
tricky but by the way if you’re a movie
guy and you’re like mob movies if you’ve
seen a movie Casino you would have seen
Oscar Goodman in the movie Casino I
could tell all your viewers one thing if
they would watch the movie I make 13
cents every time it’s on TV
13 13 cents it’s a wonderful that movies
played a lot of time so you made a lot
of 13 so a lot of 13 still gettin
residuals could you imagine what the
neuro gets so you were De Niro’s
attorney in the movie I was De Niro’s
attorney in the movie in Pesci’s
attorney in the movie and Sharon Stone’s
attorney in the movie and in real life
represented all the people they depicted
the Tony Spilotro was a Pesci character
De Niro played Frank Rosenthal and
Sharon Stone was Jerry Rosenthal and I
know you told me a story last time that
Sharon’s don’t came to your house it was
a lovely lovely woman not the persona
that you see the
tough lady she’s like she’s like the
girl next door she’s a beautiful lady
she is it physically she’s beautiful
you’re telling me she’s beautiful as I
say and because I always say yeah it’s
beautiful on the inside is the outside I
have some cool questions I want to go
through with you obviously for you to go
from where you were at moving here so
why do you leave Philadelphia to come to
Vegas don’t you know Philadelphia like
you left 64 it’s not like there wasn’t
any action and full of bills and every
kind of action they were the cops there
were using billy clubs knocking people
over the head today instead of shooting
them so that’s the difference in the
action I want to know who you were in
high school but you know guy we do you
know the Gator who you the 4.0 GPA where
you I was like a 2.0 no I usually was
the dumbest guy in my class although I
went to the best schools I went to a
wonderful High School where you had to
take a test to get into it was one of
the two finest high schools in the
United States at the time guy it was he
only high school in the country that had
a president instead of a principal then
my folks moved and I went to a private
school out on the main line
the Haverford school and then went to
Haverford College which was ranked
number one in US News and World Report
as the number one liberal arts college
in the United States and basically I was
the dumbest kid in my class but I loved
I loved College it was like being at the
Elysian Fields it was bucolic I studied
philosophy I studied sociology but then
I’d lost him I was like the ugly
duckling that became the beautiful swan
and played a little football there
played a little baseball there played a
little everything I was the only
undefeated wrestler and Harvard’s
history yeah my roommate was a real
wrestler and they were wrestling I think
Lafayette College and the Lafayette
Heavyweight was out so they took me
along said Goodman’s gonna be the
heavyweight tonight no one was there to
oppose me so they declare me the winner
which was very very good champions I
went to law school University of
Pennsylvania fine law school Ivy League
but the truth the matter is compared to
my experience at Haverford which was
just so interesting to me in those days
when I went to law school I was with
people I’m still friendly with them who
wanted to be corporate lawyers wanted to
be business lawyers and I wanted to be a
civil libertarian I wanted to represent
people
the little guy against the big
government so I was unhappy and got
married to my wife barely made it
through my first year of law school it
was a miracle that I made it through and
became even unhappier not only with the
curriculum but the fact that she was
supporting me and that bugged me I mean
I couldn’t stand the fact that my wife
was why because I looked I guess I’m
chauvinistic I thought that the man was
supposed to support the woman at least
in those days that’s what I think it was
the right thing to do so I decided to
get a job and I walked from 34th and
chestnut where the law school was and
Philadelphia down to Broad which is the
equivalent of 14th and Market one block
off at chestnut went into the DA’s
office there knocked on the door didn’t
know a soul and the DA himself came out
Jim Crow malysh and I said mister
Cranitch I said I need a job I’d like to
be a clerk for your office he said well
I don’t make those decisions but you may
want to see all inspector who became a
United States Senator a very important
person in America’s history he
interviewed me he had just come off the
first victory of a prosecutor against
the teamster official and he was riding
at the crest he was very very popular
and he said I could always use a
research guy do you want to work I said
I really I really want the job he said
I’ll pay in dollar an hour but you have
to work forty hour a week well I was the
only guy in my law school class who
worked at all because everybody’s
studying they want to be warring to
order of the coif I I said I’m so happy
thank you for the privilege of being
able to work and I worked my tail off
and he was a stern taskmaster very
critical of anything that I did but
constructively criticize me and a
wealthy widow was murdered in
Philadelphia and the fellows who
murdered her took three hundred thousand
dollars from under her mattress came out
to Las Vegas to launder it in the
old-fashioned way at the crap tables now
here is this
I’d say 63 1963 got it Arlen assigned me
to work up the testimony of the police
officers who arrested these two fellows
while they were in Las Vegas they got
released on a writ of habeas corpus and
then went to Omaha they were really
they’re brought back to Philadelphia for
trial in the murder case and they raised
a Fourth Amendment search and seizure
issue as far as the search that took
play
in Las Vegas and that the two policemen
who engaged in the search activity here
and arrested them here they came back at
Orland said interview these fellows and
anticipation of a motion to suppress so
was one of these cold dreary rotten
Eastern nights that the wind was just
going through this old stone city hall
building and we worked for four or five
hours and then they said let’s let’s go
out to dinner we had dinner and dinner
they said you’re a nice kid what are you
doing here well nobody ever asked me
that question before Philadelphians in
those days were the most provincial
people in the world I said where else is
there they said Las Vegas I say you got
to be kidding people live there he says
it’s a great community so I went home
that night and I woke Carolyn up my wife
my dear a beautiful bride I woke her up
and I said sweetheart how he’d like to
go to the land of milk and honey she
said I love you but I’m not going to
Israel so that was the end of that one
and then we decided we would come out
here because he promised the new
frontier they said you could do whatever
you want Las Vegas if you have half a
brain and you’re willing to work and
they were absolutely right we didn’t
know a soul came across the country
arrived at the top of the mountain
looking over the valley here there were
a couple twinkling lights in the desert
and my wife said where have you brought
me I said don’t worry this is the great
she says my parents were right I
shouldn’t have married you we settled in
we had lived in a tiny little apartment
in Philadelphia and she said I want you
to have the nicest apartment that you
could afford and I said well that’s not
too much we have $87 between us we found
an apartment it’s a nice little
apartment it was a two-story apartment
we’re here here a two-story apartment
that had a little patio front I mean
compared to what we had in Philadelphia
which was like a postage stamp this was
like a palace but one next-door
neighbour worked for the del Webb
corporation very nice another one was
they had a food and beverage and another
hotel and across the street was a
prostitute who walked a little poodle
every morning and I got my binoculars
out and she was a beautiful prostitute
and she became my clientele the
prostitute absolute not the brutal what
was the case that she became oh well
more soliciting is what
was it the soliciting soliciting and
everyone has to make a living and by the
way you’re for sure I certainly yeah I
don’t even think it’s close first of all
the girls will be safe the customers
would be safe there’s never been a case
of sexually transmitted disease
emanating from one of the brothels here
in Nevada the girls have to go to the
doctor no one’s forcing them to work
they make a decent living they eat well
I visited these brothels in preparation
of cases on occasion and never heard a
complaint from them I much prefer to see
somebody working in an atmosphere like
that rather than going into some back
alley and engaging in some $20 trick so
you believe in anything that can be
taxed turning legal I believe I believe
in anything we’re consenting adults who
aren’t hurting one another and can do I
don’t even get into the economic aspect
yet I’m just saying how about cocaine
how about heroin you’re legalizing that
so all of it so legalize all of it oh
and if they want to kill themselves let
them kill them so how do you say that
and then you turn around and you say if
you do graffiti in the city of Vegas
which is your day off because it was my
beautiful Blood Stone tortoise that some
punk kid that graffiti so I wanted to
teach people a lesson and I suggested
that we go on TV not just cut the thumb
off that wouldn’t do any good it just
hurt him I wanted everyone to see the
thumb being cut off and you were serious
about that serious episode but I liked
stockades too they could take these
graffiti people I haven’t seen a Picasso
out there by the way who’s messing up
the walls okay but we so legalize coke
legalize their own legalized
prostitution but cut thumbs off if
somebody does graffiti where is you
higher your process because they’re
hurting somebody with a graffiti a
building that person has to spend a lot
of money or the city has to spend a lot
of money to make it clean again or else
do you have just a outrageous blight
taking place all over the place and with
these other things you’re just hurting
yourself it’s like I have four children
and none of whom drink and drive now
that wasn’t an a priori decision on
their part they learned that drinking
and driving is bad you’re gonna get in a
lot of trouble and the same thing you
teach him that taking coke is
taking opioids is bad unless you need
them in order to appease pain but if
they want to hurt themselves they’re not
hurting anybody else let them hurt
themselves they’re people I mean they’re
cutting a thumb off you’re pretty
hardcore me you know I’m not I was a
local time that’s like this well I’m not
taking eyes out but if the kid did it
again and we caught him by the way I
spent a little too much time with moms
but no no no no we caught the kid who
had graffiti cut his thumb off word
let’s put it this way I went to the
judge and I said as part of his sentence
I want this kid to come up to my office
in City Hall and apologize to the city
of Las Vegas and when he came up he
caught his father with him and I had a
machete on my desk come on I had a
machete on my desk and I promise you
this after he got through stuttering I
could assure he’s never gonna graffiti
anything again city keys machete not
cutting the thumbs off is what you’re
saying no I’m saying that he thought I
meant business
how old was it can probably bout 17 you
you probably mess with this kid’s mind
for the rest of it I don’t like a
remember you I hope you had nightmares
about it – every night that won’t stop
him from going to a prostitute though
okay but it will stop it from graffiti
maybe he is now a customer – that
prostitute walking the poodle maybe
there’s a connection there now she’s
older than Methuselah she’s a female
masseuse so so go back to you’re in
you’re in the apartment two bedrooms so
I’m finding who is your neighbors and
then you have $87 rent is $87 how are
you getting your first customer how did
you get your first client to get a
career going before we go there I said
to Caroline I said you have to get a job
sweetheart and she got a great job but
advertising and publicity over at the
Riviera Hotel and it really was very
very good at it so we had a little bit
of money coming in I made a little bit
of money in the DA’s office after I took
the bar I went to work for the public
defender’s office I learned an awful lot
there – my first six cases as a public
defender I won them either when I say I
won them I thought I had to define that
I got him dismissed I worked out a deal
that the client could not refuse so they
were very successful of course I was a
court appointed for all intents and
purposes the clients were not paying me
because I was a public
defender not one of these clients thank
me I guess I don’t know why they didn’t
thank me but and you remember that out
of the six none of them thank you
not one thank me and the first case I
got as a private lawyer when a referral
from somebody I lost it and they thanked
me for trying so hard it always taught
me that there’s nothing wrong with
charging a client and also I learned
where there’s a fee there’s a remedy so
I’m not one of these lawyers who had
people come into his office and say oh I
can’t do it or it’s not going to be good
if I took their money they knew I would
work as hard as any human being could
work to make sure that had an
appropriate result so how did this so
call community called and that some
people call mobsters now obviously you
know well they were mobsters in those
hey how did you find him though how did
you although you know you know a lot of
people wiseguys I call them authors who
write stories that Oscar Goodman was
sent out by the mob to represent their
interests in Las Vegas well the mob
would not send me out with 87 dollars in
my pocket I mean if I was coming out I’d
be coming out in a chauffeured limo and
with a little bit of money in my pocket
it happened all by accident my dad who I
told you before I loved more than life
itself he thought of a great present a
great gift when we came out here first
of all he wasn’t happy we were coming to
Las Vegas it took him years to accept
the fact they were going to Las Vegas
because why was that what was he had the
impression that many people in the
public had at that time there was Sin
City and it wasn’t a place where people
should live or even then the reputation
was oh absolutely more so then they had
a book called the green felt jungle and
everybody read it they gave my father a
hundred copies of it he read it was
going crazy and some was going to Las
Vegas and when people said where’s Oscar
he said he moved to Phoenix he moved to
Las Vegas but he sent us a gift he sent
us $20 a month which doesn’t sound like
a lot but it was all the money in the
world with the proviso that it had to be
used for entertainment purposes it
couldn’t be used for rent couldn’t be
used to pay taxes it had to be used to
take Carolyn out to dinner to see a
movie something along that line
interesting there was a hotel where the
Mandalay now is it was called the
Hacienda and Carolyn she was the first
counter believe it or not
she didn’t know she was a card counter
but her parents played a game called to
concentration will you take 52 cards he
and turned them facedown so what you saw
was the cover of the card and you picked
up one at a time and you had to match
them with each other and when you match
them you took them off whoever had the
most at the end of it well that’s it my
way her mind work so we would have a
nice little dinner and usually he had
about five or ten dollars left over and
she would sit down to the blackjack
table and invariably she would play the
five or ten dollars and win and whenever
she won she put it in her purse and when
we lost she lost five or ten dollars I
was smart enough in those days to know
that he had to be thought of as a sucker
by the dealers and by the floor men and
by the pit bosses if you’re playing cuz
no one’s gonna beat them so I would
stand behind her and it was a different
Vegas in those days maybe a much
friendlier Vegas and I would talk to the
dealer the same dealer all the time sold
by them a Bob Butler he’s a very
pleasant guy very pleasant and we became
friends over the card deck one day calls
me up he said I’d like you to do a
little legal work for me and I did a
nice little legal work for $250 I still
remember including the cost
he was happy I was a good amount back
then that’s not a good amount was $250
but it and you rent us 80 87 bucks so
it’s kind of like $4,000 to me well it’s
the only a guy like you who’s that smart
could figure that out and you’re
absolutely right we carried on the
friendship after that a phone call came
in to the Hacienda pet who’s the best
criminal lawyer in Las Vegas nothing’s
changed over the years guy picks up the
phone he cups it who’s the best criminal
lawyer in Las Vegas
nakiya I did the $250 case for said call
Oscar and that’s the way it all started
Wow simple as that really it turned out
that the fella who called me was Bob
Martin Bob Martin was the odds maker for
the world Canada no that was no Horowitz
that Mel’s brother was the one who was
in trouble he called Bob who’s the best
criminal lawyer and they I get a phone
call at home come on over to second
structured address as excuse me
we haven’t Hayes for you so I say to
Caroline because I’m not brave she’s
brave I said sweetheart take a ride with
me because I was scared to go so we went
out early worse I was scared to death is
I you when you hear a voice like that I
wasn’t used to hearing a voice
like that come right over and I went up
to the door and a guy hands me an
envelope he says here’s your retainer
three dimes and you better win the case
I didn’t know what he was talking about
to me – whether he died mmm
so I said all right he says we got a
phone call tomorrow I said fine I go to
the car he said sweetheart
go around the corner let me look what’s
in this envelope I saw a 30 $100 bills
never saw so much money at one time in
my entire life and I said I better win
this case well I was the kind of case he
can’t win it was called a dire act where
this fellas who retained his brother was
caught in a stolen car
apparently in Arizona here in Nevada and
all the government had to prove was a
car was stolen and it was stolen and
taken across state lines and whoever is
behind the wheel 999 times out of a
thousand will be convicted well I got
real lucky I tried the case on st.
Valentine’s Day I think the jury must
have felt sorry for me and it’s I I
thought it was a fun story where we make
our closing arguments the jury is
instructed my law office was about a
block and a half from the courthouse
judge says be one call I said yes your
honor and walk back to my office and on
the way back the the mobster brother the
guy who was taking care of the fella I
represented he was a mobster
but a nice monster bookmaking type
offenses and they didn’t bother anybody
Berner it was a moneymaker
he didn’t yeah he didn’t hurt anybody he
says it better if the jury takes a long
time to come to its verdict or a short
time I said oh here I am I’m like a big
shot my first federal case I said oh
it’s not even close the longer they take
the better we are I walk into my office
the phone’s ringing
jury has a verdict oh I said I told you
the faster the better
we went back there they found him not
guilty well that’s the way it all
started because mr. Horowitz was a
friend of mine Lansky hmm and Meyer
Lansky was the national mob syndicates
financial genius he with he and Lucky
Luciano worthy the people most people
know lucky but Meyer Meyer is a he’s a
he’s a heavy guy I mean he’s like the
heaviest yeah I mean in the world of
that world yeah he was the biggest and
he got indicted out here we got in
her skin which is taking money before
taxes are being paid on it taking it out
of the system and he was living down in
Miami at the time his lawyer Dave rose
and was a friend of mine having met each
other in a case where we defended the
first wiretap case in the United States
down in Florida and I was fortunate
enough to have my clients severed and
the case was ultimately dismissed
against him so I developed a little bit
of a reputation through no fault of my
own I was a very very lucky fellow and
when Lansky gets indicted Rosen his his
real lawyer calls me and said will you
represent him on a local basis so I did
and there were some very prominent
defendants in the case the two fellows
who owned the Fontainebleau in Miami
were defendants of the case and they
were represented by world-class lawyers
Edward Bennett Williams from Washington
DC bill Hundley who was Robert Kennedy’s
right-hand man I’m filing motions to
dismiss based on Lansky’s poor health
and the government saying there’s
nothing wrong with Lansky we have
pictures of him walking his little
poodle down I wonder whether this is my
next-door neighbors poodle walking the
same poodle walking a poodle down 21st
in Collins showed pictures of Lansky and
I’m saying I have letters from the
doctor saying he’s too sick to go to
trial he’s do well and finally the
others go to trial they’re all found
guilty Lansky does not go to trial and
the judge dismisses his case so from
that point on I am the lawyer in the
country for certain kind of people you
no longer have to look for clients
everybody’s looking I have more clients
than any lawyer in the United States
what happened from there of just one
case after another I became an expert in
wiretap cases and represented a lot of
people whose last name ended in fouls
across the United States at cases in
Miami Philadelphia Boston New York New
Jersey South Carolina Macon Georgia of
all places tried for cases of Macon
Omaha Nebraska Representative fella by
name of Maxie the Little Giant Abramson
Los Angeles San Francisco ERISA all over
the place and it was the nation C of
wiretapping and I was able to pick apart
the government’s procedures and was
winning one case after another based on
irregularities under the wiretap statute
ultimately I won so many cases I taught
them how to do it right
so I killed my own practice in effect as
far as wiretaps were concerned but in
doing that I represented all these
people who were supposed reputed
mobsters around the country and whenever
they got in trouble when their children
got in trouble their relatives got in
trouble I got the phone call
now did you become friends with these
mobsters or wiseguys you call how do you
find friends so for instance like was it
what are you doing Friday night let’s go
to and we’re not talking business yeah
what do you do not go to watch it in the
donkeys game well all business except
when I was lucky enough to win a case we
went out to dinner and we celebrated but
half do you want to care there was
nothing that didn’t have to no no
because my wife taught me a lesson early
on she said don’t become your client I
said what do you mean she says if you
are like your clients and not that
they’re bad people they were very
charming they were very nice very
respectful but the judges looked at them
differently and she was saying if the
judges look at you as they do your
clients you will not have any
credibility with it so the clients
understood that and we did not have
social relationships we had friendly
relationships but not social why don’t
you you shared a story on what happened
when there was attorney context well no
it wasn’t an attorney it was interesting
I one of his associate yeah I had a
problem a judge had ordered me to turn
over financial transactions records and
financial transactions with one of my
clients and I knew what the law was in
the Ninth Circuit that financial
transaction is not covered by the
attorney-client privilege it’s only the
communication between the attorney and
the client I knew that but I felt that
was a bad law so I refused to turn it
over and the government brought a motion
to hold me in contempt of court and it
was a serious business because they
wanted me to be jailed forthwith I said
what is fourth with me and they said
right away I said well we’ll give him a
chance to appeal it and he said but if
you lose the appeal bring your
toothbrush I was under that cloud I had
a case in Boston I went up there my wife
joined me and we’re in the hotel room
nice hotel and the TV’s on what’s this a
white suburban going up and down the
highways in Los Angeles what’s the story
here and they were saying that OJ
Simpson
was being followed and chased as it
related to a murder that took place in
the Westwood area and just as we’re
watching it on TV I get a phone call
from a fella by the name of West who
represents himself as an agent of OJ
Simpson’s and they want me to come out
to Los Angeles immediately to represent
him and they were gonna set me a $25,000
retainer so I said I can’t they said
what do you mean you can’t I said I
can’t I have my own problems and I’m not
gonna take on somebody else’s problems
until I resolve my own so I had found
out that the first lawyer who got the
phone call was Howard Weitzman another
excellent lawyer who represented
DeLorean on the cocaine case and want it
and then after I passed I understand the
Robert Shapiro got the phone call he
brought in F lee Bailey and then Johnny
Cochran so he had a great team I would
have loved to have had that case but do
you know you have to do what’s right by
people and I just didn’t have the time
basically on my own problems to take on
somebody else’s you if you would have
taken a you think the results would have
been the same I think that the case was
decided the moment the case was moved
from Westwood through downtown Los
Angeles I think that the folks who lived
in downtown Los Angeles looked at Jason
sand as a deity and he could do no wrong
he was a hero of the community had gone
to school down there great football
player popular public figure running
through the airport
jumping over suitcases and everything in
a single bound and they weren’t about to
hurt him and I don’t know whether anyone
could have lost the case he Shapiro
Dasom they said do you think he did the
crime he says let me put it through this
way I haven’t even told my wife what I
think about this that was his answer yes
I’ve never even brought it up it doesn’t
really talk to his wife they’re not that
friend no I’m kidding no I’m kidding yes
a lovely wife there she knows that yeah
so I understand what so let me ask you
another question this is this is a part
of that world because when when I got
out of the military you know I didn’t
want to go to college but if I was gonna
go to college to become anything I was
gonna become an attorney you had a
really great lawyer that would be the
direction I would want to go that’s it
but you know the saying that’s look you
can get away with murder if you have
enough money and the right attorney
backing you up how much truth is there
behind that state well you know we’re a
capitalistic society and the way that we
reward excellence is by paying somebody
and excellent attorneys make a very good
living they do they charge a substantial
amount of money for their
representatives as services so I think
you’re probably if you have a lot of
money you’re going to get a better
lawyer than somebody who doesn’t have as
much money but on the other hand I’ve
seen some great public defenders who
make a meager salary in the scheme of
things put it their life into a case and
do as good a job as the most expensive
lawyer in the world so I think as a rule
of thumb you probably right money buys
an awful lot advise investigators it
buys the ability to have exhibits and it
buys time yeah in the sense that when
you’re getting paid you could take as
much time as a client could afford you
to take to properly prepare whereas
these poor public defenders they’re
overburdened and they have to move cases
in and out but I think that generally is
a good rule of thumb from your
standpoint you’re in that world I’m in a
financial world what would I like to
change about the financial world you
know in the basketball I don’t like the
ticky tack foul and you know I wish
they’d get away from ties in NFL why
should we have a tie this you play until
somebody wins you know all these things
that people think that would change
obviously in America you know how many
people we have in prison you know we are
the number one it’s way too many right
and then some people don’t get the fair
trial because they didn’t have the money
they didn’t have the support if there
was one or two or three things that you
don’t like about our current system in
place what would those things be well
the first one would be if you have an
FBI agent or a cop that the average
person on the street is supposed to
respect get on the witness stand and
take an oath I swear to tell the whole
truth and nothing but the truth so help
me God and then purgers perjures
themselves tell us a lie
they should be penalized substantially
for that and it never happens they don’t
even get a slap on the wrist they don’t
even get a letter of reprimand in their
file they go on
and lie in the next case that’s the one
thing I would do I would change that
immediate how do you change that though
you make sure that the either judges
direct a prosecutor with a lie is taking
place in that district to take the case
before a grand jury and to see whether
the grand jury wants to indict that
person for perjury
is there somebody you’re insinuating are
you talking like a Comey are you talking
anybody no I’m talking about just about
every case I was involved in where where
the prosecutor or the FBI agent or the
local cop lied and nothing ever happened
to them
yeah and that’s outrageous okay so you
would change the level of accountability
for them what else would you change
about it the system as far as a bail is
concerned I think that they should use
more house arrest they shouldn’t keep
somebody incarcerated who’s presumed to
be innocent just because he’s unable to
post a monetary figured in order to get
out that’s something that there’s a
pretty easily worked out but it takes a
it takes some time to do it it takes
some commitment to do it I think there
has to be reform along that line are you
saying here’s the 20 crimes one can make
at the bottom forty percent we can take
three million people out and have them
be held and just throw in a number out
there you know we can take 300 thousand
people and they can be housed right and
put something on there and we can track
where they’re exact Channel what you’re
saying i electronic monitor that if they
abscond then the alarm will go off do
they make money to pay for food how are
they able to work what happens though
there are Arrangements where they’re
allowed to during the daytime go and get
to their job and then return they can’t
with the government pay for their food
allowance or no if no no I’m not asking
for a welfare state here I’m not curious
no I’m not suggesting that at all
they’re suggesting that somebody
shouldn’t be penalized because they’re
their financial position what are your
thoughts about what to do to minimize
some of the time for these guys that
well certainly one thing that I feel is
very very bad and it’s interesting
because it applies at the very very top
of the rung and very very bottom of the
rung and that’s when a prosecutor makes
a decision who he’s going to give a pass
to in order to have that person testify
against somebody else we see it
happening with Cohen
the fixer the lawyer for drop new Trump
said is my best friend my lawyer my
loyal wonderful great until he flips and
and now he’s a rat and I think I if I
have to predict and I think the same
thing is going to happen with Manta fort
where he’s going to look nobody gets a
deal like manna fort
unless he’s ready to give a fella like
molar the the candy store the you don’t
let a guy he walk away from eight counts
where he’s found guilty facing another
trial where he’s looking at basically
doing a life sentence at his age and say
the most you’re ever going to get is ten
years if you work with us now
what does working with us mean it means
that you are going to fully cooperate
and I’ve been in rooms seeing how they
asked them to cooperate if they don’t
like what the person saying they said no
no that’s not cooperation you know more
than that until they finally say what
the prosecutor feels the prosecutor
wants to hear and then they then the
person has kept the deal let them walk
away from murderers I’m gonna give a
speech here in about a week well no
later on this week I’m speaking to a
group here at the Plaza and I’m gonna go
through one case after another where
they allowed guys who killed four people
who killed eight people who killed 16
people who main two who had prison riots
where they welded different parts of the
guards body together they let him walk
and you know where they walk they go
into the witness protection program and
they become your next-door neighbor and
nobody tells you what these people did
you could be living next to the most
evil killer in the world you won’t know
the difference
that you don’t make deals like that with
the devil that spawns perjury that
spawns lies you shouldn’t be able to
make a you know saying that now
President Trump all of a sudden it dawns
on them
that’s this isn’t fair these guys are
gonna become rats so they could testify
against me that’s not fair that’s not
the way it should work so you’re hearing
it from the very top now so how do you
think Trump is doing I think I think the
country is doing very well financially I
don’t know whether it’s attributed to
him or whether it’s a carryover to the
prior administration or administration’s
I think he’s very very clever that he
appeals to his base with the tweets and
the Twitter’s whatever those things are
called but I also think the
somewhere down the line if he ever has a
proceeding they’re going to be able to
use those as statements against his
personal interest and he’s making a heck
of a record against himself if he’s not
telling the truth I think he has a bad
habit unfortunately of I’m not going to
say lying because lying is a very
technical word but saying one thing one
day and then saying the exact opposite
the next day and now that he has
Giuliani as his straw man out there he’s
compounding the situation so I think
from a legal point of view he’s not
doing so hot
I think Muller is playing everything
very close to the vest I think he’s
doing what a prosecutor’s supposed to do
that he’s not trying his case in the
media but Trump can help himself he he
tries his case and he appeals to people
who will never find him guilty of
anything because they love him but on
the other hand I’m not sure he’s helping
himself
you also had a falling-out with Obama
back in this is like a financial crisis
time right now no no about ten years ago
he made a comment about Vegas said hey
your dad made you make two comments made
two comments yeah and you were upset
about this upset you I mean it was I was
outraged it was it was national news so
I was outraged what what happened there
all right were you out here I’m sitting
I’m sitting as the chairman of the
convention authority conducting a
meeting and somebody comes up to me they
said do you what the president said I
said what are you talking about he said
that people should not fly their private
planes to the Superbowl and shouldn’t go
out to Las Vegas and Gamble their money
I said that president wouldn’t say
something like that that’s like saying
that don’t don’t eat the oranges in
Florida or don’t buy cars in Detroit
same thing I said now he couldn’t have
said that so at the end of the meeting I
said did anybody hear that some
high-ranking officials said something
that about Las Vegas nobody raised her
and then afterwards some reporter comes
up to me said it was the president he
said that I said he owes us an apology
well you know if people took a front of
that how can this mayor say that the
president owes a city an apology I said
I said it but I’ll back off if you don’t
like the word apology he better
straighten the situation out and say
Vegas is a heck of a place to come to
for meetings and conventions there’s no
better place and then when you’re
through
business you have a good time he says
that I’m cool I write him a letter and I
said I expect you to say that I think
it’s only right because the next day
Patrick the day after he made that
statement 312 meetings and conventions
cancelled come on I don’t lie okay
hundred and 312 meetings and conventions
canceled the next day coming to Las
Vegas a major convention paid six
hundred thousand dollars to get out of
their contractual obligation and went to
San Francisco now I’m not I love San
Francisco you know they have a nice
bridge you can’t see it because of the
fog but it’s a nice bridge but the price
is there are way higher here 3x is good
I mean as far as a convention location
we have a hundred fifty five thousand
rooms no places further than fifteen
minutes away from the airport it’s a
perfect spot but they paid to get out of
it and they went up there so I don’t
hear anything
and I’m boiling I’m steamy he makes
another statement to a high school group
same thing people should not spend their
money in Las Vegas at the expense of
paying their children’s college to it
now what’s wrong with that though you
know to his defense
oh yes to hear from this guy about Las
Vegas the president the economy’s bad
he’s telling you to save money but he’s
pointing less offense
oh I’m not going to defend him the guy
he hurt our town and on the mayor and
I’m protecting our town it’s that simple
okay I don’t care whether he’s right or
wrong he hurt my town how long did you
feel it until the following took place
every Memorial Day I visited the
chapel’s all over town when I was the
mayor and I paid my respects to the
fallen and to those who served it’s a
beautiful day
mmm gorgeous got through about 11:30 and
I have a little koi pond in my backyard
and I love going to my backyard watching
my koi and turning my classical music on
and reading a little book and the phone
rings I run into the house oh and I also
had started on my second martini at
11:30 they run into the house
hello the mayor there I said there’s a
mayor he said this is a congressman Rahm
Emanuel the president’s chief of staff
at the time but he called himself
congressman I said what could I do for
you sir he says I hear you have a
problem with the president I said I’ve
got a big problem with the president he
says what we’d like to work it out
because he’s coming out we want you to
meet him at the tarmac I said I wouldn’t
meet this president the tarmac if he’s
the last president earth you didn’t say
that I told you I don’t lie I assured
this wouldn’t meet and I wouldn’t lay
the last president on earth right
he hurt my city no he says I think we
could probably rectify the situation I
said I yes for that a long time ago I
said what do you suggest I suggest when
he comes out he tells the people don’t
feigus is a great place to do business a
great place to have fun he’ll do that
for you I said he does that for me I’ll
meet him at the tarmac so he comes you
know the way he walked comes bouncing
off the plane and oh yeah the wise guy
mayor he says that’s the first remark to
me I said I don’t think I’m a wise guy
he says well they say you have a lot of
fancy suits I’m not sure that makes me
into a wise guy maybe a mob guy but not
a wise guy he says I hear you’re angry
at me I said I’m boiling he says well I
think I was grating it out I said no you
better not think you’re straightening it
out you better straighten it out because
I’m out here meaning you based on the
premise that you’re straightening it out
you didn’t straighten it out you didn’t
straighten it out so I had it with them
and I said to my wife when she became
the mayor I said you’re gonna meet this
guy at the airport she says I’m not you
he surprised the United States he’s
coming to my town it’s only right that I
meet the president itíd States I said
you do what you have to do I do what I
have to do so we don’t agree on that one
point did that cause you to go from
being a Democrat to an independent or he
did so that was the reason no that
wasn’t the reason else was a result
because I felt that as the mayor I
shouldn’t be looking at people as ours
or die’s on the mayor for everybody
because of the way my popularity went
everybody was in favor not everybody I
mean only 84 percent were in favor of me
being the mayor so I changed for that
reason but I did change from independent
or nonpartisan
to
Democrat when I got angry at Trump one
day I ran down there in jail now I’m
going to change it again i partisan yes
that part’s interesting because you know
as a mayor you are more with the people
on a daily basis so I can see how you’re
saying I can’t really be on a political
side because I have to deal with people
on a day to day basis yeah you know I
often thought when I was sitting up
there presiding over the city council
meetings in particular the constituents
were very close to me as close as you
are almost I’m sitting up there and
they’re coming to me with their
grievances and they’re seeking redress
and I thought back and I said you know
this is exactly what the framers of the
Constitution we’re talking about when
they said we the people and they did not
want their leaders to be monarchs they
wanted them to be representatives and I
loved it everyone said when I ran for
office I would hate the city council
meetings it was my favorite time but it
really made me feel like I was down with
the people when I was presiding over
these meetings I really enjoyed it and I
have my like that line you were down
with the people well that’s true because
I’m sitting up here yeah and the people
are down there speaking to me up here
but I had my coffees with the mayor I
did that once a month I had my martinis
with the mayor which I did every night
officially we did it once a month and it
gave people an opportunity to come to a
local bar and have a drink with me or go
to a local Starbucks or tea and leave
whatever they call those places and have
a cup of coffee on me and I wanted to
hear what they had to say that’s what
the mayor is there for and I think
that’s probably why you went from 67 to
87 to you know whatever to 87 right it’s
a 65 to 87th 82 to 84 84 yeah I mean
listen anything above 65 is respect
anything about 55 you’re doing really
good when I won by 65 35 the first time
they said it was a landslide I felt it
Zoey I don’t well that’s a landslide
well I don’t think so but yes that’s
you’re competitive so let me ask you if
I come in is it fair to say that if I
walk into your living room I’m not gonna
say a massive painting of Barack Obama
and Trump in your living room is that a
pretty fair assessment I think that’s
very fair however when you come to
Oscars where we’re
today my little restaurant there I have
a picture of mr. Trump when he was mr.
Trump and I have a picture of President
Obama and that’s the picture by the way
it with a President Obama of him coming
off the plane you could see I am NOT
happy when I first was elected mayor we
acquired 61 acres downtown which we now
call Symphony Park and that’s what I saw
was a future for Las Vegas with great
academic medicine with a wonderful
performing arts he came out he wanted to
build the buildings yep and he built a
beautiful building and he builds
beautiful buildings and the one thing I
wasn’t able to accomplish as the mayor
was to bring professional sports here I
made the inroads by talking to
Commissioner Bettman with the NHL and
David Stern with the NBA and then Adam
silver but my wife is the one she she
capped the deal so we have the Raiders
coming here we’ve got the you got some
hate for that you got some hate for not
getting the teams to move out here you
started it with you you got some
criticism for about criticism but who’s
criticizing it’s important to know that
anybody that does anything you know at
the highest level you’re gonna get that
criticism is there always a couple
people who are I call misanthropes they
get up in the morning and they hate I
mean they hate when they get out of bed
all I could do with these misanthropes I
pray to God I pray to God that a
misanthrope is living with another
misanthrope and they hate each other and
from the moment they wake up in the
morning they aggravate each other to
death it’s not a counter negative like
they end up loving each other like when
you hate each other like Tula hates
becomes a lot although it doesn’t become
a love but I just hope they hate each
other to death
and we got a couple misanthropes around
here so let me ask you this you know you
know how you always like you you hear
the stories and you don’t know how much
truth there is behind it some use think
to something you don’t think there’s
when when when wanted to go to Atlantic
City Trump did whatever he could for him
to not get their life that’s what they
say yeah and then when Trump wanted to
come over here when work this so how
much different is there behind that I
don’t know it’s the same thing as well
you asked me whether somebody’s guilty
whether sitting in my wife you know
their guys really good unless you’re in
the fray
you really can’t say what’s really
happening all I know is this as a mayor
you were you you wouldn’t know like you
wouldn’t hear stories to say like you
hear it but it’s hearsay it I don’t know
whether the rumors that it happened
neither one of them has a life I
understand that but it’s like everything
else I’m too busy to worry about other
people’s business if I was a mediator
and had to put people together and get
the job done I’m there yeah but if you
get Trump that he has a life license you
wouldn’t he keep building here I’m like
bring it brings more economy here wasn’t
very no we’re doing pretty good Las
Vegas is back we he’s not gonna come
build casinos now as a president he’s
not gonna come and put the president
Trump casino plate well yeah don’t bet
on that either that could happen because
who knows what’s gonna happen with the
next term so here’s a technical question
for you now this is just a historic
question I’m Kherson of what you’re
gonna say about it say the folks from
East Coast don’t say and encourage this
guy good-looking guy who was a charm or
suave had a temper but he had these blue
eyes a guy named Bugsy say they don’t
ask him to come to Vegas say he doesn’t
buy flamingos say he doesn’t see Hoover
Dam say none of that stuff takes place
what’s Vegas today well without that
well I’ll tell you what it was back in
1905 when that’s the official time when
we say Las Vegas was created right where
we’re sitting today right on the ground
down there they had an auction and we we
peg our history from the day of that
auction this was a watering hole the
cattle that was being transported from
Salt Lake City to Los Angeles and
vice-versa they would stop here the cows
will get off they would water because
there were these ripe Irian Springs and
that’s why we were founded they built
the dam people came here they built the
air force base the army air force base
in those days now called Nellis and
nothing really what’s happening as far
as the economy was concerned and then we
were the first place to legalize
gambling and there were a couple small
places but Siegel’s the first one to
come here and to build the mega
structure out at the Flamingo I had some
places interest in the downtown joints
but it was a Flamingo and that went bust
as far as the mob was concerned they
were very unhappy with Salone was
shortly thereafter he was a slain at
Virginia Hill his girlfriend’s home in
Beverly Hills and huh
what would be without somebody else
would have done it once we had lost
somebody else would have done oh I
believe that yes so you could see Bugsy
you don’t think irrelevant Vegas is
still gonna end up me in Vegas right but
it went through iterations in order to
get where it was when Bugsy was here he
was working under the aegis of Lansky
and then the other fellows came in
basically there were a lot of Jewish
fellows who were the front people for
the the Italian guys who really owned
hidden ownership of the hotels here and
it was a great town in those days
because each one of these hotels was
owned by one group they weren’t subject
in the New York Stock Exchange Exchange
in the filing of forms and they didn’t
have the careful supervision over the
the gaming so to speak it was wide open
it was a bargain people came here when
my wife came here with myself in 1964 we
were able to go into a place called the
Thunderbird it’s not here
we used to implode our history when I
became the mayor I stopped the implosion
so they got a renovate and do it over
again but we went to the Thunderbird we
saw Frankie laine nobody remembers him
but he was a great singer Sarah Vaughan
who was a great singer didn’t charge us
we went in there they gave us free
drinks free food they were happy to have
us I don’t know why I felt like a big
shot I tipped the maitre d $2 came out I
was wondering what it meant when he put
his hand out like that that’s that’s
when you knew he expected to be rewarded
but we had a drink we enjoyed ourselves
now you have to pay for parking so I
think we have to watch ourselves here I
know there are a lot of people are gonna
be upset that I’m saying that but we
we’re a symbol of something here we’re
symbol of freedom we’re a symbol of
people who think they’re getting
something for nothing people who know
they’re gonna have a good time and when
we impose surcharges or rooms room taxes
entertainment taxes parking fees I think
we detract from what we are supposed to
be and we better not kill the Golden
Goose that has laid an egg here that has
provided a pretty darn good life for all
of us who live here you think that’s
similar to what’s happening to America
where
could become so rich where we say let’s
start making welfare state and give
everything else we’re free to bear this
original people at first you know
created this brought this system of
capitalism and now that were so rich
let’s let’s get all these free problems
because we can afford it now I think
certain programs have to be free for
people who can’t afford it certain
health programs I think that’s very very
important I think that we have to
address the homeless problem just about
every city in the United States has a
major homeless problem we’re in a
position here in Las Vegas we set it up
where as somebody who once helped gets
help somebody who one shelter gets
shelter but there’s so many folks out
there many of whom are veterans who come
back and they really have suffered
mentally and emotionally and they do not
want the help that the city is ready to
give them we have to be able to reach
out and take those people in our bosom
and make sure that they’re provided for
as far as medication and food and
they’re just the common things that
people expect in life interest but don’t
give anything away to those who can earn
it themselves that’s where I am nobody
gave bet you and nobody ever gave you
anything for nothing no not not not this
guy so and what amazes me these days and
I’m not complaining because I had jobs
that people would laugh at I love them
all I was a janitor at a community
center I clean toilets and men’s rooms
and ladies that’s why I never use a
public restroom because I know the way I
used to clean them I wouldn’t go near
them I sold fuller brushes I sold
encyclopedias I had every job in the
world and I loved every single day your
attitude your attitude at these 15 16 17
year old kids they’ve never had a job
and they’re complaining they go away to
college that they should go into the
army they should have the mandatory
service and get to some maturity and
learn how to do something before they
start spending their parents money we’re
on the same page with that so so let’s
go through some of the people you
represent it ok and and and then maybe
some that you know I don’t even mention
that you may have some stories to to
cover obviously we talk on Meyer Lansky
yes and Fat Tony Salerno I know you went
through Nicky Scarfo Philly Leonetti
Stardust casino boss Frank lefty
Rosenthal Jimmy Chuck me something
I represented everybody you represented
pretty much everybody but why don’t we
talk about Tony right let’s watch over
this very interesting guy a very
interesting because the FBI and the the
local charges him of killing 22 people
he said they say 22 now used to be 27
all my clients got killed 27 people
according to maybe the five are alive
now they I don’t know the authorities
always said Goodman’s clients killed
this guy kill 27
I said not 26 I mean you read a story
about the Tony putting a guy’s head in a
case I spied on the case so so did it
happen did it as far as I’m concerned I
want the case a jury they’ve found him
that girl maybe he got a good attorney
maybe he was innocent me maybe he had
good money maybe yeah cuz you know maybe
he was a well two attorneys they paid me
well I’m sure they did and you’re a good
attorney well thank you so how does the
how does the populace know if it
happened if it didn’t happen and is that
okay if we don’t you don’t what what
difference does make it okay if we don’t
sure it’s okay because the only thing
that matters is what the jury has to say
yeah but you went out you also went back
when I asked you I said what would you
change about the laws you said I don’t
like the fact that some of these FBI
agents can get on and they can abuse
their power that’s correct it’s a but
you have to bring that out I bring that
out during the case and you hope you
have some reporter who’s not out in the
hallways but also said you said you’d
rather have your daughter day Tony than
to date an FBI agent yeah I did I just
don’t believe that Tony Avella I’ll
never lied to me I never had an FBI
agent in any case that I ever tried tell
the whole truth under oath on the stand
how do you like that that’s your
reasoning how do you like that that’s
that’s that’s scary and I didn’t let him
get away and it was a very bad winner
you know you talk about bad losers I
wasn’t a bad loser if I lost I lost I
was a bad winner because I made him
suffer and when the jury came back and
said that because the way I tried my
case the government only had to do two
things because I rarely put a client on
the witness stand do two things one they
had to follow the Constitution not a bad
rule and they shouldn’t engage in
prosecutorial misconduct
by holding up a pair of panties with red
paint on it and saying that the woman
was raped and the jury supposed to think
his blood okay United States Supreme
Court they said that’s wrong but before
they said it was wrong we started all
the time yeah you you said so many good
things about Tony
so yes that was a nice man
they even said 20 was an even I think
your mother one-time mid Tony you know
why Indian you know what I said your
mother said they didn’t even treat me
like his mom they treated me like a lady
being like a lady and she used to say
Oscars clients never hurt anybody they
just killed each other
okay and she also said Oscars clients
took me to the best Italian restaurants
that’s not bad but when Tony’s Palacio
came you wish you had friends like Tony
Scott show when they came into my office
they said hello to my secretaries good
morning when they asked for a cup of
coffee may I please have it when they
got a cup of coffee they said thank you
for it you can’t ask for more than that
you can’t answer Brenda I know a lot of
big shots okay who don’t say good
morning to people and it’s true who
don’t thank people you could have those
guys so then it becomes the level of
value on what is at the top because if
I’m gonna take out somebody among family
or within a community I’m a part of
maybe you think that’s okay like if I’m
going to go against somebody else that’s
in my community you’ve chosen to live
the life of being a made man or a capo
and you cross us we got to do something
about it where they live you know I had
the case up in Massachusetts
representing Vinnie Ferrara mm-hmm they
caught the prosecutor in order to
prejudice the public against him at a
speech in front of other prosecutors
refer to him as the animal Vinnie the
enemy he said they would never call him
that it wasn’t to his face yes and his
sister was a nun they never called her a
penguin this guy loved his little doggie
and when the judge had Vinnie in front
of him and listened to the wiretap that
Vinnie did not know he was being
recorded on he said these people have
their own code I don’t agree with their
code but they follow their own code and
he says you know there’s something
decent about a lot of them when you get
to know them you don’t look at what the
other side says they are let me ask you
a question if they’re so decent
would you support the fact to bring more
wise men and mobsters back so we can
have more you know of their culture come
back is that also what you’re saying I’m
not saying that I’m not saying that
they’re decent in the way they treat
people who are not part of their culture
who have crossed this oh it was a Tony
good for society from my perspective it
was a very nice fella
now from the
authorities perspective he killed 27
people and they said to me how can I
represent a guy like Tony’s mulatto who
killed 27 people how can you represent a
guy when you know he’s guilty how can
you do that I said wait a second
you’re the cop how could you not put him
in jail if he killed 27 people he’s
walking around never spent a day in jail
so who’s wrong me or you
sorry I get excited I mean look at you
you you’re a professional for what
you’re doing and by the way his life
Tony’s life was played by Joe Pesci as I
think Nicky Santoro or something like
that in Cassini yeah I forget hothead
but he had charm and you’re saying it
was he did a heck of a job when I played
myself in the movie and when I went out
to the Wardrobe set the first day it was
like deja la Yogi Bear would say yeah
it’s like Jay deja vu all over again I
see it this little fella
with a crooked arm holding your valise
Tony and Tony he was dead if good it was
Pesci he looked just like him he looked
just like him when you got shot the
movie did they ever come over like I
know you said well they come on but
pressure came over as well like you okay
do I have the all came to play okay
demise that experience I thought is the
greatest of De Niro’s very quiet fella
Pesci very noisy fell in with the cigars
dunk got my whole home shower in stone
came over and it was great
Lane Wynn was there she’s a
multi-billionaire and Sharon Stone’s not
doing bad and Carolyn Goodman’s all
right and it was great seeing the three
ladies doing the dishes together that
was pretty cool Scorsese was there
Pileggi was there Stacy was yeah they
were all there and we had a wonderful
time we really did was it it was a great
dinner and the Carolyn made a great meal
and everybody enjoyed themselves let me
ask you is it true that when Mike Tyson
bit Evander Holyfield’s ear up part of
his ear of you represented him did you
did yes and is it it was the referee of
that match also the judge or was it and
it was in not the jaw he was so this the
referee of that match was also the judge
in court
yeah Mills Lane not not no no I appeared
on behalf of Tyson before the Nevada
Athletic Commission and I was brilliant
the evidence was pretty clear that the
year was off okay you know one could
argue that but everybody was saying well
take a year suspension that’s the best
you’re gonna be able to do because
they’ve already grabbed the purse three
million dollars so one of the fellas on
the commission who was a good friend of
mine and I’m not gonna say he wasn’t
calls me in the back room and he said
Oscar you may not want to do this
suspension thing you may want us to
revoke him I said well revoke
revocations much more serious in a
suspension he says no we have to
revocation you could come back and
reapply after a year whereas on a
suspension you had to do the whole time
so I’m thinking to myself you know Tyson
brought in so much money to this
community just being on the billboard
saying he’s gonna fight brought people
in from all over the world to watch him
fight it was a real event I said looking
at this economically I don’t think that
they would not I think they would give
him his license back so we took the
revocation and he got his license back
the first day that the year went by and
it was a brilliant move not me I mean I
just followed the lead there but it’s
nice to have friends in high places too
I was hired by Don King you know it’s
funny when I was a baby lawyer my first
time I represented King was when Roberto
Duran you know the No Mas Sansa stone
yep No Mas
he was tried against Obama – hey Zeus
and the IRS had come in and they were
putting a block on the fight over some
tax lien and Don came to me the night of
the fight I was able to get the fight on
and from that point on just about every
year the first fee I counted on was
gonna be a dime key referral Wow yeah
every year I got myself a nice chunk as
a result of having done the good you
know fan of DOC Cain
I like Don King yeah I’m using you know
so he paid his debt okay so a couple
names yeah I’m just curious to know you
know one of the things Dean shunned all
said this is this is a Jenelle yeah this
is a very interesting story okay so he’s
a boxer he’s rodeo guys he’s Luke Allen
– the actor actor handsome yeah he’s a
rodeo guy he used to carry a bag between
here in st. Louis whatever that means
and tough guy but a nice guy well he
gets some
my opinion set him up the law I went
into his he had a beautiful ranch out
here where he used to rope cattle and
the local sheriff was his best friend
and my kids used to go out there on the
weekend and ride little ponies and three
wheelers and the like so he calls me up
one day he’s arrested what for
possession of an unregistered silencer
I said Dean I said that’s uh that’s sort
of a done deal if they find it in your
home unless you have a reason that I’m
framed but no one’s gonna believe the
frame I didn’t have the silence here but
no one’s gonna believe that so we go
into the courtroom they read the
indictment possession of an unregistered
silencer and we had a visiting judge
from Los Angeles federal court and he
says mr. Goodman may I see you at my
chambers and the prosecutor says yes we
know he says I want to see mr. Goodman
which is you know you’re not supposed to
go and meet with the judge they called
ex parte without the other side there
but this judge asked for me to come back
he says what are you doing he says you
have a reputation as a good lawyer why
are you wasting my time I said Your
Honor I got a defense he says you have a
defense for this I said yes I said mr.
Shindell is an avid hunter he loves to
hunt ducks but he’s a terrible shot so
we had the silencer in case he missed
the first shot and didn’t want to scare
the ducks away judge says you’re kidding
I’m gonna give him probation right now
so I went out there said Dean you got
probation
I don’t want probation I went back I
said Your Honor I said I couldn’t
dismiss the case right now if this was
the case done deal
Thunder silence here he goes hunted
great defense that’s called creative
it’s called making up a creative story
Wow Wow and it worked it was effective
it working by the way this is what he
said about you once he said Oscar is a
stand-up guy he wouldn’t give you up you
can fry him in an electric chair and he
still wouldn’t give you up he’s a man’s
man I consider myself a tough guy I’ll
stand up against any man but I’m not
half the man Oscar is he’s got brain
guts and heart and another man called
you he said the Oscar is known for being
a strategist and he said you you have
your own code you live by and no one can
break that code what is that code you
live
code I mean you even told the guy is a
trick bacon that the FBI guy you told me
said I have a code I live by so what are
some of the elements of your own code
honesty time integrity your word is your
bond you’re loyal and you never cross
the line when I ran for mayor everybody
said you know he’s the mobs lawyer one
of my opponents had a little I have bad
temper sometimes and we never see no one
of my opponents had a little TV ad with
little cartoons of guys with masks on
and carried little bags of money with a
dollar sign on it and hypodermic needles
and my wife said you may not watch TV I
said what do mean that way can’t watch
TV she says you may not watch TV until
this election is over I said what are
you talking about
she says you will have this guy whacked
if you ever see this ad well they were
whack able ads but I had a veteran I
brought pot prosecutors FBI agents that
had come into contact with who were on
the other side and they all said you
know we don’t like Oscar but he never
crossed the line I can’t do better than
that
why I said they came to your defense
that’s pretty interesting it is but now
strategy-wise just just out of curiosity
you’re you got to be mentally tough
emotionally tough guy to be in a city
like this to deal with it well let me
tell you a very interesting Jack Binion
that’s a very important name to our
community his father Benny Binion Benny
came out with the reputation as being a
murderer in Texas and kind of made his
stake here and opened up the Horseshoe
Hotel here very very popular that’s
where all the poker events were taking
place and he had a family in one of his
sons Jack pinion sort of took over the
Empire Jack is a very quiet guy very
smart guy very decent guy and the two of
us we’re talking one day were on the
roof of the horseshoe looking over Las
Vegas it was his domain of my domain and
he said you know if you’re not strong
this place will eat you alive and I
listened to him it’s very very true I’m
a degenerate gambler
but I don’t gamble more than I could
afford I never would
my family be affected by it I’m a I’m a
drunk but not that it affected my
ability to be a halfway decent lawyer
and a halfway decent family man but you
have to know what your limitations are
and if you violate those limitations
you’re going to get in a lot of trouble
especially in Las Vegas and that’s
actually what you said opening when you
were running for mayor at the you said
I’ve never been to the City Hall I drink
I gamble and they love you for it it’s
almost like you pulled off your like the
M&M of politics oh you know what it was
and my son who was in the Marine Corps
today I made called and I said you know
Ross they were gonna send a straw man in
Police Protective Association doesn’t
want to see me the mayor they’re gonna
send somebody in the debates you they’re
gonna talk about my drinking am i
running around and my this and my that
he says dad you have to do a preemptive
strike I said what are you talking about
Russ he said you don’t know where to
preemptive strike is I said no tell me
he says you got to beat them to the
punch so they sent up some guy and he
says when’s the last time you’ve been in
City Hall mr. Goodman turns around
starts walking off a Saturday wait a
second buddy everybody in the audience
is you don’t talk to a potential voter
that way I said wait a second buddy you
come back here and you look at me I’m
gonna answer your question he slinked
back and looked up and I said well you
asked me a question
don’t walk away and saying the answer to
your question is I’ve never been in City
Hall you have anything else you want to
ask me and I looked at the audience and
I said I don’t want to hear any more
questions that I’m gonna answer now
without a question I’m a drunk okay
don’t call me after 5:00 I’ll talk to
you you’ll think I’m sober but I won’t
remember so don’t call me after 5:00 and
as far as gambling is concerned if I saw
a cockroach here and it ran left I would
bet on it going left or right so don’t
ask me about that anything else that was
the end of the race is the campaign end
of the race locally here you know the
stories about Sinatra Dean Martin did
you have any run-ins with them not
run-ins I was friendly with Sammy Davis
jr. mm-hmm I was involved when I was a
baby lawyer with some business
negotiations on his behalf I was invited
to it’s a horrible thing to say to a
birthday party for Sinatra’s mom the
night that her plane crashed and she was
killed so that was a disaster
well yeah a terrible terrible thing
did you spend time with Sinatra like did
you know he never made it he didn’t make
it to the party but we were all there
waiting for him to be there I knew you
know Jerry Lewis was my next-door
neighbor around the street we were good
friends Shecky Greene Don Rickles I mean
I mean or Moe Greene any any experience
of Moe Greene or no no but Moe said way
yes okay so I’m not as a local doctor
here it’s interesting by how the
children are these supposed monsters
that did very very well for themselves
and became community leaders it’s
interesting yeah you said something in
no.6 you said there was a game that came
out of a shooting game rainbow I think
was rainbow something uh where they kiss
dispersions unless yeah I wanted to
borrow that – you wanted a bar that and
sure there’s you feel when the shooting
happened a couple years ago in Vegas did
it make you think about your comments in
O six or not at home now
no in O six hours the mayor so you think
of things one way when you’re the mayor
and this year on October the first my
wife is a mayor and she got the phone
call about twenty of eleven and didn’t
see her for three days after that she
was in the hospital taking care of it
best she could assisting the first
responders so no no I didn’t think of at
that time I just I felt it was a
terrible shame because I felt we’re a
community that’s very safe and this was
not a terrorist attack but could show
you what one evil person he wasn’t crazy
this guy he was just he was evil yeah
what what an evil guy could do it is a
disaster like me wrong like me wrong guy
give you a name first thing that comes
to your mind okay anything that comes to
your mind first thing that comes to mind
James call me Bombay Sapphire Raiders
Las Vegas tequila people who are in
series drinkers people who are in series
drinkers look at John Gotti a victim of
Sammy the bull Gravano La Cosa Nostra I
like to call it a lot kosher Nostra and
think of pastrami Oh Bugsy somebody
who’s nuts really oh yeah Obama don’t
like him Hillary Clinton don’t like her
John McCain I knew John McCain I had a
fight with John McCain too but I
respected him and I think it was a great
American Giuliani
no respect none zero I want to finish on
a good note I was a good let me give you
a good note Joe Lewis boxer he was one
of my favorite people witness in one of
my cases back in New York there’s no way
in the world I could help my client
until I brought Joe Lewis into the
courtroom and the judge said mr. Kenan I
said yes your honor here’s the guy who
didn’t talk to me for the whole truck
mister come up here like I’m his best
friend
he says is that whether who I think it
is
I said that’s Joe Lewis he says kinky
get me his autograph come on
I said I sure can from that point on
every denial was granted granted granted
very cool well Oscar thank you so much
for taking the time I know we were
trying to set it up to get together it’s
good to do it at your restaurant I love
your you humor your knowledge your wit
your energy your mental toughness the
whole night this was just a fascinating
conversation this way I’m a lucky fella
I’m involved with the plaza the great
restaurant here people come up here have
a wonderful time great buzz and I
participated in the buzz so I’m the
happiest guy who ever loved a final Wars
mob story when Michael Franzese I know
we’re very good for Michael yourself as
well right mob story it’s going to be a
noble experiment it’s in the downtown
area
it’s a artistic piece with the Jeff
Kitaj who had the splash show running
for years out of the Riviera but I
understand the music’s great the
Dancing’s great Michael Franzese is in
it
they say he’s riveting as far as his
presentation is concerned so I’m really
looking forward to seeing it and tonight
hear reason we have to wind up is we’re
gonna have concierge is from all the
community here and then we’re gonna have
the media here later on the week and
everybody’s gonna love mob story well
I’m gonna go to tonight by the way if
you haven’t if you’re ever in Vegas
click on the link below to find out more
information about the mob story and
aside from that any questions thoughts
comments about today’s interview comment
below if you haven’t subscribed do so as
well ask her again thank you so much for
thank you Patrick appreciate you you’re
a not only are you a bright guy but ya
got that beautiful twinkle in your eye
it’s great I appreciate that true thank you right thank you very much
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