Jordan Peterson – UNCENSORED

what do you think is the influence of
colleges and how do you feel about the
current educational system period I
think universities are making seven
fatal errors apparently it seems to be
fine if a woman wants to play a
patriarchal role that seems to be
perfectly fine it’s corrupt but it’s
okay if women occupy the positions of
power it’s like okay what do you not
know a lot about that if asked about you
don’t really have that strong of an
opinion research on those topics you
have a moral duty to supersede the
accomplishments of the person who bore
that name and gave it its weight before
you dare capitalize on it in the public
sphere and there’s Trudeau did none of
that we’re never gonna see Prime
Minister Jordan Peterson that’s not
that’s not in the equation so look we
get a lot of guests on value taymiyah
but one of the most highly requested
guests ever by you on value Taemin has
been dr. Jordan Peterson clinical
psychologist professor at University of
Toronto as well as the author of 12
rules for life dr. Jordan Peterson
thanks for joining us you obtained an
invitation yes definitely it’s good to
have you you know this if you if you
don’t know dr. Jordan Peterson if you
you know I would say total viewers cuz
I’ve seen some of your views 50 million
on Facebook 80 million some stuff has
gone completely viral
I’d say total a billion views give or
take maybe even more than that with your
content that’s on YouTube Facebook all
over the place people now know the name
dr. Jordan Peterson and the part I want
to spend some time talking to you about
today is a couple things one obviously a
lot of people who interview you they’re
gonna talk to you about politics
religion God post-modernism all of these
things and maybe we’ll get into some of
that stuff but what I’m very curious
about with you is the following one is
who Jordan Peterson was growing up right
I mean you read the stories about that
13 years old you’ve been given a book
and you started studying some of I think
I ran George Orwell and some of these
books that were given to you and then
from there you have other inspirations
that came up and I think at one point at
Harvard you were studying drugs and
alcohol and the addiction reasoning why
do we get addicted and then you become
who you become and you have some strong
opinions but I want to know who you were
in high school if I was in high school
today with you we’re in 10th grade
we’re classmates I’m sitting next to you
we’re good friends who’s Jordan Peterson
well first I’m not very tall so I was
younger than most of the people in my
class because I skipped grade one okay
so I was five foot two in grade ten
really so yeah yeah yeah and so I
suppose that made me a little bit more
agile verbally than I might have
otherwise been most of my friends were
working-class guys most of them quit
school in junior high and early in high
school most of the friends that I had in
high school were very comical people I
had four very close friends from a
little tiny town even north of where I
grew up and there was almost nothing
north of where I grew up
they were extremely comical people and
so we told jokes to each other all the
time tried to amuse each other I spent a
lot of time driving around on the
country listening music drinking beer
with my friends out in the bush in high
school yeah that’s great
so now Bureau helps to think the way
long winters in northern Alberta you
know and not not a tremendous amount to
do and well it’s eight not a typical
teenage behavior that was me in high
school I read all the time oh you did so
you were reading all the time yeah yeah
I read a book a day for years are you
kidding me no most of it was science
fiction I had a neighbor across the
street who had a huge science fiction
collection a whole wall and he used to
let me come in there once a week or so
and I’d pick like seven or eight books
and take them home and read them and
then I’d come back and get another
eighth I read science fiction like that
I don’t know from what age oh 10
probably one a day yeah yeah that was my
cool
now are you a speed reader do you go
through a very fast reader will you
always fast back then as yeah I learned
to read when I was very young my father
taught me to read when I was very young
and I’m very fast did he teach you how
to fast read oh well you just you just
started reading so that was something I
was very yeah well I wouldn’t say
specifically he taught me to speed read
he just taught me to read and I guess
I’m happened to be relatively fast at it
so it yet that’s been a very useful
thing for me so your dad had a big
influence on you yeah about that a begin
yeah yeah he’s you bet he spent a lot of
time with me when I was a little kid you
know we used to he used to come home
every night we’d spend an hour or so
reading he had designed this he was a
teacher he
a workbook which I still have that that
outlined all the phonics the the all
those sounds of all the letters the
sounds of all the two-letter
combinations and all of that and we went
over that every night and and I that
happened for a long time from the time I
was probably three onward I think at
three years old yeah
Mary Jo mom do my mom well when I was a
kid she took care of us she stayed home
got it she was trained as a nurse she
never practiced as a nurse though she
had kids and then later she became
librarian for our local college and she
had a career that lasts about 20 years
as head librarian and she was a very is
both my parents are still alive
she’s a very pleasant person very funny
she has a great sense of humor I used to
make you laugh all the time so that was
and I still do sometimes on purpose
sometimes and so humor was that humor
has humor always been part of your mo
like have you always been somebody that
jokes yeah definitely well it was a big
part of the culture in northern Alberta
like it was a big deal if you were funny
I’m parties a lot of Canadians and we
drank a lot of kokanee and these guys
are funny people they know how to have
fun yeah well there’s a lot of Canadian
comedian say yeah that’s what we export
down the state so that you guys have
some we need your help because we need
some good comedians down you’re right so
but you better be funny if you’re gonna
live through a Canadian winter that’s a
good point
we better amuse you better be amusing
and Joe yeah it was an important thing
like a lot of what we did when when we
were kids when we were adolescents in
particular was just try to sit around
and amuse each other you know with your
dad we need sarcastic comments I grew up
in there I was in the military so this
is very normal for us we write witty
were like sarcasm some people have a
hard time with that but it’s it’s see I
think it’s more of a working-class thing
you know I think so as well that’s it I
really miss it I really like it cuz I
sort of moved up the ranks yes a on the
academic front that became less and less
common you get your wit from that set or
you think that’s part of a DNA you were
born being witty or because you were in
an environment that you had to be witty
the major survive so the proto yeah that
was definitely part of it well it was
also because I was small and and mouthy
it was very useful to be sarcastic and
witty too because it was the only
defense that I had really that’s so you
know people would
after me I mean everybody gets there’s
lots of physical yeah back and forth in
junior high in high school but people
would come after me and I could defend
myself reasonably well with my tongue so
I think Ben Shapiro has a similar
stories yes a similar guys because he
was a year ahead I think it’s a year you
know and yet he was always smaller so
you figure out a way to stand up him he
was being bullied I don’t think you
don’t mess with Shapiro no it’s quite
impressive I watched you lots of times
on YouTube yeah you want to mess with
him at your peril
yeah we’ve had him on about a 10 min
before and the way he thinks is also
very interesting how we process this
issue so let me ask you when you said
your dad was teaching you how to read
from three years old and he’s going
through it and all of us and you pick up
and start reading a book a day would you
also have dialogues with your dad hey
Dad what do you think about this no I
wouldn’t say no so much dad’s quite
introverted and really yeah isn’t a
debate type of a format sure so your
family wasn’t I can’t believe Prime
Minister no no no very little treasurer
little dad figured he would have been
happier if you’d have been born a
hundred years earlier I mean he grew up
in a log cabin he grow literally and he
grew up on this this well my
grandparents were the original
homesteaders in Saskatchewan Canada
Western Canada is about a hundred years
behind the beautiful area by the way
that whole area they got some nice
property yes yes and and so and his
parents were from his parents were of
Norwegian extraction and they built a
log cabin in the middle of the damn
Prairie and that’s where he grew up and
you know he’s a hunter and a trapper and
a fisherman and he likes to be outside
he likes to spend time alone although
he’s got close friends but these are
people that he mostly does these you
know this hunting and fishing with
that’s I mean he was a teacher he’s the
fire chief in our local town he ran a
huge or huge fishing game Association
imported elk to northern Alberta or no
elk up there before before the
organization brought them up there and
so but that was his life and he’s a
gunsmith and a gun collector and he has
like I don’t know how many guns many
many and so that’s his culture and his
life and and it was never something that
I was really part of I mean I went
hunting with him I went fishing and
trapping with him we used to camp all
the time when I was a kid we weren’t a
particularly political family or a
philosophically oriented family for that
matter I mean my dad’s very smart
philosophically oriented family orderly
no was it a religious family was
literature no family was it let’s read
the Bible every day let’s probably
really so we the debate come from what
did your ability to be able to listen
process respond what did that ability
come from was it when you went into
academia is it as it post yeah probably
I think to some degree it’s it’s it’s a
natural ability I mean even when I was a
graduate student when I was first
teaching I seemed to be good at it
my the classes that I taught as a
graduate student and that was without
any previous teaching experience were
popular and then I well I now I’ve been
teaching I’ve been lecturing for you
know multiple times a week for 30 years
and so and I also very seldom relied on
notes I mean to begin with when you
don’t know a topic very well you have to
scaffold the conversation with notes you
know but I I always very loosely stuck
to my notes I would prepare a lot
beforehand but then sorry now it’s
alright if I come you’re not gonna give
a PowerPoint speech here’s what we’re
doing
right you’re just gonna speak it right
now you know when PowerPoint first came
out I used it more I relied on it more
than I did once I got accustomed to it
but no it’s better to it’s better to
sketch out your your talk and then rely
on your notes as little as possible if
you can manage it and I learned to do
that and I like I practice doing that so
that I could get to the point where any
ously how do you practice that we just
try to stay farther and farther away
from your notes as you yes well there’s
something do you roleplay do you sit
there with the new person and you said
no no no no usually what I do that
that’s a good question I mean first of
all I be over prepared in some sense so
I mean I believe that if you’re going to
if you’re gonna give a 20-minute lecture
you should have an hour of the material
at hand because that way you have an
opportunity to sort of move
spontaneously through the material but
generally what I do now because I have a
lot of material at hand a lot of stories
and a lot of things that I’ve knowledge
say that I’ve accrued over the years
usually before a lecture well this is
the hard part and I can do a lecture
without doing this but it’s better if I
do this this is the hard part I’ll sit
down for 20 minutes with my eyes closed
and I figure out what the
what the central topic is so there’s
always a question what’s the question
I’m trying to address in this lecture
and then I’ll figure out a pathway
through it it’s like okay well here’s
the argument here’s point one here’s 0.2
here’s 0.3 and there’s possible branches
off those and then with each point I
usually have a collection of stories and
facts that I can use to make the point
plus the point
yeah yeah and then to buttress it didn’t
to make it interesting and so it’s a
little bit it’s a little bit like
improvisational jazz I would say or even
improvisational piano because I play a
little bit of piano on so you lay out
the story and then write you can use the
responses of the audience to guide how
you’re gonna walk through it
it’s not duplicatable you have to have
that ability to do that do you would you
say you have some kind of a photographic
memory a little bit or no no no no not
at all not at all so these books you are
you to kinda you can say page 7 you know
he said no it’s not I know I’ve known
people like that like I had professors
and you seem like you may have a little
bit of that because the way no I don’t
organize myself that way I knew
professors at Harvard one particular
professor Richard McNally who was a
walking library man he extraordinarily
well-read person very very smart very
fast on his feet and that’s really how
he seemed to organize his knowledge he
would know the author he would know the
page he’d know the source he’d know
where the book was I’m not like god I
thought you were for sure so okay so
let’s go I have a theory that I’ve been
working on for a very long time and what
happens when I read something is I plug
it into the theory so I know the full
outline of the theory it’s it probably
take me 45 50 hours to lay it out in
lectures I’ve done that online and then
but I keep it grows and grows and grows
and grows I know where to put everything
nice so if I read something I think
oh yes that slots there and so and so
you store it as well if somebody asks
you a question you need to use that fact
you have it somewhere still where you
bring out and say okay but it has to be
related to this work I’ve been doing
overtime oh yeah god oh it’s kind of
like there’s this technique called
memory castle that people have used for
centuries to remember things and so what
you do is you you you you sit and you
you imagine a might be a place that you
know
like a little place a house and then you
can place the things that you remember
imagine you walk through the house you
can place the things that you want to
remember at different locations in the
house but you have to you have to turn
what you’re remembering into an image
and then you can walk through the house
and and you can lift things up and find
what it is that you’re trying to
remember I sort of do that with this
theory it’s like it’s it’s Beatrice I’ve
literally worked on it for it’s been 40
years and so I know the I know the story
and I know it’s branches and I keep
adding to it and adding to it and
shifting pieces around from time to time
and so that’s how I remember things and
I forget a lot of what I read a
tremendous amount of what I read that’s
now and then something pops up in it
sticks that changes the complete
perspective for me a little bit for me
to know that your views obviously has
been vested for many years but you’re
also constantly working on it I guess
this leads to me wanting to ask this
question from you is I think from my
opinion I think I run a business here
I’m an entrepreneur we do what we do
with value tainment I believe the people
that make it to the top of any space
they learn how to process issues better
than others they learn how to put things
together a system that helps them make a
good decision and then from there they
come out with their opinion may be based
on some facts based on whatever they
collect together or data to say this is
what I believe about God this is what I
believe about politics here’s how I view
economics this is what I think works
this is what I think is the way we ought
to live the twelve rules for life right
here’s what I think boys need to do or
women or men or this is based on this
what do you do what is your processing
when a topic enters your mind
how are you taking the next necessary
step to come up with an answer or a
belief that you’re very comfortable
saying this is what I believe in I no
wonder questions you don’t like to be
asked is do you believe in God and your
response is phenomenal cuz you said one
I don’t know what believe means to you
and I don’t know what God means to you
because the word believe in God may be a
different meaning to me so that’s a very
interesting answer to give but how do
you process issues here when a new topic
comes out you Cavanaugh comes out
everybody goes through the leadership
with Cavanaugh right and you come out in
you know afterwards like well I think he
needs to you know well I I usually do
think about what I want to know like
what’s the step yeah the share boss I’d
love to hear that partner well
I mostly I can think in images and so if
I’m building things because I like to do
carpentry and fix houses and that sort
of thing and so I like to build things
and if I’m figuring out how to build
something I can picture it and so I can
think in pictures but I don’t usually
think in pictures I usually think in
words and I think pretty formally in
words like if I’m sitting down let’s say
with the Cavanaugh issue there was a
question that question Eric Weinstein
asked was was there an alternative to
him being confirmed or not confirmed
because he sort of thought both of those
wouldn’t bode well for the country and I
thought okay well what could the option
possibly be so I think that through
inwards and then I think well he could
well I eventually thought well he could
be nominated and then how would I feel
in a situation like that well my my
nomination would be very contentious is
there a way that I can help dampen the
contentiousness and still retain my
reputation I thought well you could be
nominated and resigned what would be the
advantages to that and then lay out one
side of the argument and then I’ll lay
out the other and another and another
and and have an argument and like an in
Whizzer so absolutely that’s what you
know absolutely got it yeah basically
what you do and this is really what you
do when you think is you you know if
thinking is an internalized conversation
which at least is one form of thinking
is that you spin off avatars of yourself
and you say well you take this position
and you take this position and you take
this position and then you have each
fictional part of yourself lay out the
argument and and argue it through so for
example when I write so that’s another
thing that I’ve done a lot of to prepare
for my lectures you know I’ve written
well I’ve written two books and one of
them took 15 years I wrote 3 hours a day
for 15 years every day that was the
first book that’s a technical books of
various it’s very hard yes at so so I
laid out I laid out that argument but
the way I did it was well first of all
you generate your ideas that’s the first
part there’s actually a technical
process that goes along with this I use
a computer in a particular way so
imagine I’ve laid out an essay well then
what I’ll do is I usually use two
screens I take a paragraph out put it on
the other screen
get into sentences okay so I put spaces
between all the sentences okay then I
look and see if the sentences are
organized properly if that if that’s the
proper order try to reconstruct them so
that they that they make more sense they
flow better and I take each sentence one
at a time and try to write a better
version of the sentence maybe three or
four times and every time I try to write
a better version of the sentence I try
to think of all the ways that sentence
is wrong and could be fixed so at the
level of the word at the level of the
phrase at the Leveson school oh you bet
like four maps of meaning the first book
I probably wrote every sentence in that
book fifty times are you oh no
absolutely and then well there’s more so
then so then I’ll take put the paragraph
back together and if it’s better than
the original paragraph then I’ll put it
in so then I have a replacement for it
but then also imagine it’s a chapter
well then the chapter has a structure so
I’ll outline the structure so this is
real helpful too if you’re writing a
chapter is like well boil it down to ten
sentences you written a chapter down to
yeah you got a chapter right a ten
sentence outline and that forces you to
condense what you wrote and with ten
sentences you can see the argument does
that argument make sense then you can
cut and paste the paragraphs from the
essay back into that structure and if
you do that three or four times then you
have a very very tight argument I have a
writing guide on my website at Jordan B
Peterson comm under products it’s free
it’s it’s it’s just a word document but
it outlines how to do this imagine if
you’re writing so here’s what you have
to get right if you’re writing the whole
argument has to make sense as a whole
okay you can think rather unclearly
and still make an argument that works as
a whole sometimes I read essays written
by intuitive students and the essay
works as a whole like there’s a good
idea in here but it’s very badly written
but there’s an idea there so it sort of
succeeds at the highest level but then
if something’s written real well it’s
every word is the right word every
phrase is the right phrase the phrases
are put into sentences properly the
sentences are organized into paragraphs
properly and you have to edit at every
one of those lessons piano so it has to
be like if one you know
Ennis listen to another person plant and
one is off they can’t right yeah
regular person is not gonna catch it
yeah
so you you going to that level of
perfection well then I also read
everything out loud
do you seek perfection in that get in
that area
no but I what I seek I wouldn’t say I
seek perfection what I seek is that I
can’t do it any better so I know a book
is done when I can’t write about it yeah
that’s right i maxed my ability out so
if I can’t and if I if I’m at the point
where when I’m starting to edit I’m not
sure if it’s better then it’s time to
quit interesting and I also often if I’m
writing like I’ll write something and
then wait like you have to wait a couple
of weeks to look at it again because
often when you’re writing and you reread
it you read what you think you wrote
because you’re still you still have the
ideas in your head that that are part of
the cloud of ideas and it’s not until
you forget the context in some sense
that you can actually see what you wrote
and so there has to be pauses in your
writing as well do you have a method for
turning off all the noise I mean you
have a family you have kids so is there
and you have Louisa so what does have a
method for turning up all the noise I’m
like a junkyard dog man it’s like don’t
come in and bother me when I’m writing
and like it’s been hard somewhat hard on
my family particularly on my wife
because you know like I said from 1985
to to 1999 I wrote three hours a day and
the rule was don’t bother me when I’m
writing like to leave me alone and the
reason for that would be you know I I’d
be working on something I have it like
half an hour of thoughts in my head
stacked up to make an argument and then
someone would interrupt me and I’d lose
all of it it’s like that’s no good and
so I got well I have a mental image it’s
like there’s barbed wire it’s a barbed
wire a nice job there dog do you ever
lose it and doesn’t come back well you’d
most definitely
Oh for sure are you mad scientist-type
or no yeah so you okay so you do get
frustrated get you know upset you you
have that side as well oh definitely
okay so do you get along with yourself
typically like do you know you know what
I’m time when I say you get along with
yourself like you know sometimes I’m you
know I enjoy driving
I enjoy my own company I look I’m a guy
that for me therapy is going to the
movies by myself at ten o’clock and I’m
gonna tell my sister I got to do
something
come back with popcorn all of my shirt
that to me is therapy and believing or I
think in movies but do you get along
with jordan peterson yourself like do
you have battles internally when you’re
battling the topic or an issue or theory
oh i battles myself all the time that’s
what thinking is you know like see
people think that thinking is you
encounter something and thoughts appear
in your head and those are your thoughts
it’s like that’s you’re just barely
getting started at that point because
you have to take those thoughts and then
you have to critically assess them and
that’s really that’s where the thinking
starts and that’s based on what that’s
based on experiences that’s based on
data that’s based on research that’s
based on influence on a friend or
profession to say john what do you think
about what else would you is it also
based on the fact that you’re not being
lazy about the fact that you’re willing
to put additional minutes that you get
into a topic cersei I’m going to read a
little bit more about this topic and
then is there the idea of what conflict
would you say some but it is some of it
and I also outlined this to some degree
in this writing guide that I that I
mentioned is like well the first
question might be well why write or why
make an argument and the answer is well
if you’re writing to figure out what you
think then you’re gonna use what you
think to guide your action and the
consequence of that is going to be how
your life turns out so I’m dead serious
about what I write because because I
know what the pathway is it’s like you
don’t you don’t communicate in a false
manner because if you do you will warp
the structure that guides your actions
and you are absolutely absolutely 100%
suffer for that I mean one of the things
I’ve learned as a clinical psychologist
is that I’ve never seen anyone it’s
really a terrifying thing I’ve never
seen anyone get away with anything ever
it the chickens always come home to
roost so and sometimes it might you know
let’s say you get away with something
it’s like yeah you think so man you wait
five years from now seven years from now
it’ll come back is that karma it’s more
like yes I think it’s the same idea but
it’s more like you you can’t you you you
don’t have the power to manipulate
reality like you have the power to bring
about reality show some sense because
you confront potential and through your
actions and and and your communicative
intent you turn potential entry
elodie but you don’t have the you don’t
have the power to bend reality without
it snap you don’t think so
you don’t think so so you don’t think
visionaries and influencers have the
ability to bend reality you know I don’t
think they bend it I think that they the
I mean you can bring new things into
being but you can’t you can’t get away
with a falsehood hmm no you can
definitely bring new things into B you
can’t get away with a false yes that’s
it okay makes sense and and you can’t
get away with weak thinking either
because I mean any more than you can get
away with improper action it just
doesn’t work so you’re you’re contending
it’s what’s why I mean one of the themes
and my writing is the danger of
falsehood and at any at every level it’s
like well if you tell the truth to the
degree that you can or at least don’t
lie that think that’s rule eight then
you have reality on your side you got to
decide and you want reality on your side
or do you want reality against you
I wouldn’t recommend the whole reality
against you thing because you’re not
gonna win you’re gonna get flattened and
so I’m very careful with what I say and
I’m very careful with what I write like
I try to if I write something down it’s
not an opinion I mean obviously it is
because it’s my my thought sure but it’s
it’s I try to take those sentences and
beat them to death I’m trying only to
leave on the paper things I cannot get
under and flip over so and that’s with
every literally it’s every sentence yeah
because it seems like for the most part
when somehow when you when you’re
sitting with these interviews and people
are asking you questions about whatever
topic having to do it with politics it
seems like you’ve recited that answer 50
times or somebody looked it up you just
kind of Dancing with them and like you
know say there’s a series of a thousand
questions it’s like a an actor whose
role played these things so much except
you’re not the actor you’re real-life
person that believes these things that
you’re reciting back to people because
it’s been stored here for a while so it
doesn’t seem like anything’s coming off
to cover it seems like this has been
already thought about and talked about
for years all right not to answer
questions that I haven’t thought about
well here’s a question for you I mean
you’ve been viewed a few billion times
what do you not know a lot about that if
asked about
you don’t really have that strong of an
opinion research on those topics physics
really quantum physics okay no
mathematics mathematics no I’m not I’m
not particularly smart mathematically
I’ve had students who were very gifted
mathematically Wow piano well you
would’ve been a math guy because know
some what is a method my math
intelligence is average so I mean
there’s lots of things I don’t know much
about I don’t know much about economics
now I’m not sure anyone knows much about
economics but they might but as a
technical science I certainly don’t know
much about it
so there’s plenty of room there’s plenty
of places where I’m you know wooly
ignorant I don’t know nearly as much
about history as I should it’s quite
embarrassing really book a day you don’t
know a lot about history I think you’re
probably downplaying yourself well
there’s a lot to know and you know I’m
oh I know enough history to know what to
have some sense of what I don’t know and
man it’s a big very big expanse I’d like
to know a lot more why don’t we talk
about what you do talk a lot about men
you talk a lot about you know what’s
going on right now with men and for me
like I’ll ask this question maybe in a
way that will get a different
perspective for you for me I grew up
with a father
that’s hot a lot of the stuff you write
in your book the 12 rules for life you
know stand up straight my dad’s if
people ask me what has your dad told you
the most never be afraid of the truth if
I tell you how many times I don’t even
know how many times he’s probably told
me that thing a million times never be
afraid of the true just say never before
in this part of you’re one of the rules
of life rules for life so see I think
it’s wrong you should be afraid of the
truth but you should be more afraid of
falsehood see I know man I mean that’s
no criticism of your dad’s advice but
people are afraid of the truth because
often if you reveal it it causes
conflict in the moment all day long oh
yes sir all day long or sometimes they
don’t want to know it oh very off to
sometime it’s very scary yeah I know
about it yeah otherwise it’s trivial but
life is boring if we don’t pursue that
side I mean what do you do if you go
living not wanting to pursue the true to
me it’s kind of like what is the purpose
if we’re not at least trying to test our
own beliefs to see if we are thinking
right or not if we’re not thinking right
what the hell is a purpose of this life
and we’re just got eight years to be
here and be gone we may as well have a
little bit of figured telling the truth
is definitely an adventure and so if you
want an adventure that’s admitting the
truth or telling the truth
both okay but but but seeking for sure
but also telling you no what do you mean
by that telling me so you know one of
the things that your counsel to do let’s
say if you do a lot of media interviews
is to figure out what it is that you
want to accomplish with the media
interview okay right so you have a goal
it’s like here’s what I would I want to
accomplish with this interview and uh
and potentially there’s some use in that
but another way of going about it is to
just say what you think and see what
happens that’s an adventure because you
don’t know what the outcome is going to
be so look there’s this old idea that
it’s necessary to have faith in the
truth and so here’s here’s a way of
thinking about that someone asks you a
question and you might think well here’s
the outcome I want and so here’s how I’m
going to answer that question so that’s
one way of approaching it but another
way of approaching it is you ask me a
question I’m gonna think about the
answer and I’m just going to tell you
what I think and it doesn’t matter what
the outcome is because I’m willing to
see what the outcome will be predicated
on the idea that there isn’t a better
outcome than the one that truth produces
even if it’s harsh and terrible in them
in the short term and sometimes it is
it’s like there isn’t a better way of
doing it now you might say well how do
you know that an answer is well I don’t
know that that’s why it’s an article of
faith because I believe and I believe
this deeply the being that you produce
as a consequence of telling the truth is
good by definition but so you know it’s
harsh and and often uncomfortable
because you get in trouble yes but your
faith to me seems very mathematical like
when I when I when I see your answers
about your faith like you say I choose
to believe that there is a God but I
don’t know so it’s a very logical answer
you’re given right there act as if God
exists access of God this is a good
definition of belief yeah sure yeah you
know believing is something you have not
yet seen right you see this would you
stake yourself all right you know like
you think well how do you know if you
believe something well the answer is you
stake your life on it that’s how you
know and that’s something I suppose to
the degree that I’ve been able to have
stake my life on it’s like well do I
believe it well it depends on what you
mean I’m acting it out I’m putting
myself on the line so that seems to be a
reasonable definition of belief you know
if someone says you know do you think
there’s a God in heaven it’s like well I
don’t know how to answer that question
because I don’t know exactly what you
mean it’s what I’m saying the logical
part to me is more honest I think the
logical side of it is more of an honest
way of looking at it saying it’s a bet I
don’t know you know I’m not a hundred
percent but I’m betting there is if I
was to bet to see if there is or there
isn’t my bid is yes there is that’s the
life I want to live and I think I’m
living a better life if I believe there
it’s also there’s also there’s
psychological elements that are
associated with that dude that are
important so one of the things I learned
from Carl Jung who great respect for is
that we we necessarily exist inside a
hierarchy of values and that manifests
itself all the time because in order to
act things have to come to a point right
for you to do something you have to
decide at that moment that that thing is
more important to do than anything else
that you’re doing and it isn’t only how
you act it’s even how you perceive
because when you look at the world you
look at some things one thing rather
than all the other things you could look
at so even to look at something and this
is technically true you have to value
the thing that you’re looking at okay so
you’re always using values to interact
with the world perceptually and in terms
of action now those values are organized
otherwise you’re a chaotic mess so
they’re organized there’s some
consistency in what you do right there’s
a narrative driving it that’s another
way of looking at it means you exist
inside a value hierarchy some things are
more important than others some of the
things that are important to you are
even more important than other things
that are important to other people well
to you sure how do people period but
you’re pointing towards something now
you might be fragmented and pointing to
a bunch of contradictory things but
that’s not helpful let’s assume that
you’re a reasonably integrated person
okay and so you’re pursuing you’re
pursuing something of value it’s at the
top of your hierarchy functionally
speaking whatever that is at the top of
your hierarchy that’s God for you and
you might say well I don’t believe in
God it’s like oh yeah but you still have
you either hand that’s your God you have
an ultimate value performs the function
that a deity would pray for them yeah I
agree with that let me let me ask this
question do you think a lot of men today
struggle with that but maybe even not
even men men and women today because you
know there’s a lot of different
movements to
you see so it’s almost like you know
there was a band back in the days in the
night they’re still around they perform
in Vegas they’re called boys two men
right we’re going from boys to men we
are now men and you know life has
changed for us I think we’re going from
men to boys at times today you know
sometimes guys are feeling bad about
being too manly like you know here’s a
man’s man oh my gosh is a man’s man
that’s not how you’re supposed to be you
don’t have any empathy or feelings for
other people and then sometimes on the
other side is you know you’re not bossy
enough you’re not this enough do you
think there’s a identity crisis right
now for both men and woman that they
don’t really know what position do I
need to be to be a real man or a real
woman you think there’s some of that
going on I think let’s start with a male
part of that I so I think that right now
our society is criticizing itself there
that that’s part of let’s call it
patriarchy theory and the idea is the
hierarchies that are characteristic of
our society are male-dominated and
predicated on power and tyranny okay so
I don’t buy that I think that any
hierarchical structure can degenerate
into tyranny but I think that most of
the hierarchical structures in the West
are about as good as hierarchical
structures ever get and if you think we
can do without hierarchical structures
then you don’t know what you’re talking
about because you can’t organize your
perception without a hierarchical
structure and you can’t organize people
in terms of pursuing a valuable goal you
can’t even say that the goal is valuable
without producing a hierarchy there’s no
getting rid of hierarchies now then you
can say well yeah but the hierarchy is
based on power and it’s corrupt I don’t
think that’s true in the West
although hierarchies can become corrupt
okay so let’s say you do buy that though
the hierarchy is patriarchal and it’s
corrupt
well then let’s say you’re young man and
you’re ambitious well then obviously
you’re corrupt too because your ambition
is to take your place in the corrupt
hierarchy and so because the hierarchies
aren’t tyrannical and because they’re
based on competence your ambition if you
have any sense is actually to become
competent but if you confuse that with a
power drive and there’s tremendous
confusion about that then you confuse
young men because they think if they’re
ambitious and they want to get ahead
let’s say they want to be useful
incompetent that they’re somehow buying
into the tyranny so you actually punish
the young men for their for their
virtues and I actually think that that’s
part and parcel of this critical process
because I think that one of the things
that
the people who are theorizing about the
tyrannical patriarchy’s that they
absolutely detest competence and it’s a
deep war so it’s very annoying it’s very
hard on young men but it’s also hard on
young women so it’s hard on young women
because they end up with partners who
are confused they’re confused about the
relationship between masculine and
feminine they’re confused about – how
what role they should play out in the
world apparently it seems to be fine if
a woman wants to play a patriarchal role
that seems to be perfectly fine
ethically I don’t understand how that
can be the case if the patriarchy itself
is corrupt it’s corrupt but it’s ok if
women occupy the positions of power it’s
like ok how does that make sense
well none of this makes sense part of
the reason it doesn’t make sense is
because it it isn’t designed to make
sense it’s designed to be destructive
now there’s more complications than that
there’s lots of reasons why people are
unstable in their rules now I’m one of
the big reasons is the introduction of
the birth control pill so we still
haven’t adapted to that by any stretch
of the imagination and we God knows how
long it’ll take
it’s a huge biological transformation
for women to have voluntary control over
the reproductive function that’s a you
can’t possibly overstate how massive our
technological revolution that is it’s
like a biological mutation you know it’s
like we’re a different species it’s
really a big deal and so we’re the
there’s plenty of waves produced by that
and we haven’t sorted that out at all do
you think that is becoming the norm that
you know boys like we had a guy today
Trent asked the question hey I’d love to
ask you know dr. Peterson I’m a new new
father today raising kids today how
different is it to be a father today
than before do you think he who controls
the mic dictates how people should live
and think like men and women and today
the mic is controlled by media and media
is telling us everything and it’s
controlled by 80% on one side do you
think that’s what the influence is
coming from and that’s for the whole
post modernism’s influence on the
younger generation well I think it’s
hard to say I mean the criticisms that
that that we’ve been discussing are in
some sense justified because it’s
reasonable to look at a hierarchical
structure and to be concerned about the
degree to which it becomes tyrannical
Oracle structures tilt towards tyranny
you have to be awake and you have to be
ethical in order to keep them straight
but the criticism has gone so far as far
as I’m concerned that it’s critiquing
the entire idea it’s gone way down to
the bottom and critiquing even the idea
of the sovereign individual which i
think is a is it catastrophic it’s a
catastrophic problem and it’s it’s so
interesting to see the response to
people after my talks say or is a
consequence of watching my lectures I
have people come up to me every night
because I talked to about 150 people a
night after the talks and so many of
them are happy because they’ve put their
lives on firm foundation because they
found a little bit of encouragement in
my in my lectures saying look it’s good
for you to go take your place in the
world have some ambition have some have
a vision have a goal have a strategy try
to try to be a good person in not not
because it’s your duty precisely because
that’s the proper way to live we’re in
danger of undermining all of that and
it’s not good for people one of the
things that I’ve really learned for
example recently is that there’s a learn
to articulate better is that there’s a
very tight relationship between
aspiration and responsibilities so let’s
say well the first question might be do
you need to aspire to something and the
answer is well yes because you have to
do something okay if you just sit there
you’ll die you can’t just sit there you
have to go act out in the world
okay so act towards what well that’s
whatever your aspiration is you have to
have a name okay well what should the
aim be well it should be something worth
doing let’s say what why do something
that you don’t feel is worth doing what
do you think’s worth doing well if you
watch other people and you judge when
they’re doing something worthwhile
usually judge them positively if you see
that they’re taking responsibility at
least for themselves what do you want to
be completely useless so other people
have to take care of you that’s pretty
pathetic and maybe you could get your
act together so you’re taking care of
yourself and your family and maybe you
could even do better than that and take
care of yourself and your family and
your community well good for you that’s
that’s responsibility and that’s a name
well here’s one of the things that’s
cool about that is that your life
doesn’t have meaning without aspiration
or name okay so you need a hierarchy of
values there’s got to be something at
the top it’s got to be something
important if you don’t have that your
life doesn’t have any meaning so if you
criticize the higher
key or even the ideas of idea of
hierarchy you destroy the idea of
aspiration and then people have nothing
well that’s not helpful
people are built for a struggle and
they’re built for a wait and you want to
take on a heavy burden voluntarily see
if you can put yourself together see
what you can do out in the world while
you’re waiting to die it’s an all-in
game it better be worth while and so
there’s a tight relationship between
responsibility and aspiration and
hierarchy and when you criticize those
things you get rid of the aspiration but
why are those ideas doing good today
like why why are those the idea of you
know feeling entitled or victimhood
mentality why are those ideas doing good
today why is it becoming a norm to say
people are feeling like I’m a victim but
you don’t understand what I’m going
through you don’t some where I’m at it
feels like there’s a lot of that going
on today versus a stander but do
something about your life and take some
responsibility
why are those ideas getting so much
attention today or is it something
that’s always been like this I think in
some sense it’s it’s an it’s an eternal
battle I mean the story of Cain and Abel
is a story about that is about
responsible proper living and the
jealousy that might be engendered while
observing that so it’s a very very old
problem I think well the problem is Envy
are you saying Envy oh it definitely and
yes definitely and I don’t know just
think about discussion of the 1% it’s
like well those evil 1% do you know how
much money you have to make in order to
be in the top 1% in in worldwide terms
oh worldwide yeah we don’t we’re not the
three thousand dollars a year it’s
thirty two thirty two thousand we made a
video on that thirty two thousand
persist so it’s like well where why do
you draw the boundaries so that the top
1% are people that aren’t you if it’s
not envy if you’re doing okay I mean
you’re doing okay with a with a say an
average working class salary you’re
doing okay I’m not saying you’re doing
great you’re not starving you’ve got
heat you’ve got air conditioning you’ve
got access to electronic technology
you’ve got some ability to move forward
into the future so you’re doing all
right and by historical standards you’re
doing damn fine so why all of a sudden
is the one percent that you’re envious
of only those people who are richer than
you when you’re also part of the one
percent worldwide if that’s not envy so
I know how
the riches the rich is always someone
who has more money than me that’s who
the rich is I don’t put myself in that
category you know especially if I’m
pursuing this victim mentality and then
the other part of the victim mentality
as well you know let’s say you can have
a meaningful life by adopting
responsibility but it’s a heavy load you
got to be awake and alert and on your
feet and moving towards something
difficult you have to have some
self-control and you have to sacrifice
in the present so that the future is
better it’s complex you have to
integrate a lot and will you take on
some responsibility your life has
meaning you think I want a meaningful
life it’s like maybe you do if you’re
willing to take on the responsibility
what’s the alternative well to garner a
lot of unearned sympathy for your
victimization position and to at the
same time take down the people who are
willing to take more responsibility than
you it’s a nasty game and I see it
played out in the universities too I
think if you quadrupled the salaries of
sociologists that most political
correctness would go away I think
they’re jealous and envious because they
see people who aren’t any smarter than
them doing way better out there in the
capitalist world now it drives their
envy and their hatred even though
they’re unbelievably privileged in their
positions as let’s say sociology
professors or Social Work professors or
people who are on the faculties of
Education all disciplines that have
become incredibly corrupt envy those are
two things right there then then we’re
talking media and we’re talking about
educational system and the influence of
the media and the educational system 80%
is on the left well the media is a
complicated more complicated thing I
think because I think what’s happening
in the mainstream media is that it’s
falling apart as a consequence of
technological transformation and as it’s
doing so it’s polarizing you know like
well look newspapers are having a hard
time showing any money right we all know
that and of course cable TV networks are
losing all their viewers to interesting
things like YouTube fault of people like
you and so they’re starting to
disintegrate well when you start to
disintegrate you get more desperate and
when you get more desperate well then
you have to attract attention however
you can and I think what we’re seeing in
the mainstream media is increasing focus
on polarizing figures because that
drives the remaining audience to view
and so I think a lot of that’s being
driven by the underlying technological
transformations so media solving for
view
rather than the truth that you’re saying
yeah yeah so how do you feel about the
media yourself when you when you think
about the media well I have mixed
feelings about it I mean I’ve been
treated very well by some journalists
you know there’s a handful of Canadian
journalists in particular I actually
think they’re the best journalists in
Canada I don’t I hope that isn’t mere
personal bias who’ve taken a careful
look at what I’ve been doing and saying
and have been very supportive of me the
post media group in Canada it’s an
aggregation of 200 newspapers came out
publicly in support of my stance on free
speech a year and a half ago and at some
cost to them because it was very
contentious at that point so that’s been
that’s been good and of course the media
so to speak has also enabled me to bring
what I know or purport to know to a very
broad audience and so that’s that’s a
very positive thing I’ve had very very
stressful interactions with many many
journalists it’s certainly been the most
stressful part of my life over the last
two years and some of it was absolutely
reprehensible some of the journalists
and then MSNBC News appalling appalling
and amateurish so both at the same time
it’s a bad combination vice and other
pit of snakes as far as I’m concerned
people who interviewed me and then
chopped up the interview to make it look
as bad as they possibly could and that
was all laid out by other people on
YouTube who spliced back the original
interviews and you know put out what
Iona said what do you think was CNN I’ve
had absolutely no contact with
personally if I don’t pay attention to
them Fox Fox the Fox people have treated
me very well
look I don’t pay a lot for you I
question for one here’s the reason why
I’m asking this question for because so
I’ll sit with people and on the left and
the right we’ve had Gloria Allred Jerry
Springer but we’ve had Prager Shapiro
McAfee in the middle Ron Paul so you got
two left to right in the middle weird I
mean we got them all right we’re even
because I’m trying to get clear for
myself philosophically and politically
to see if there’s some clarity as an
entrepreneur what are some of the things
we ought to pay attention to sometimes
entrepreneurs you’re so independence I
listen just leave me alone
don’t bother me for the most part most
entrepreneurs are libertarian esque type
of philosophies for most because just
let me get to work I’m gonna make my
money I’m gonna create jobs I don’t want
to get
anybody else into my business having
said that I hear Republicans complain
about the fact that well you know 80% of
media is controlled by the left you know
look what they own they own New York
Times the own Washington Post they own
you know they own this and they want
that and doing this and look what they
just did to Alex Jones they just banned
them a hundred different web sites ban
and PayPal just banned them what’s this
guy gonna do why can’t he get up there
and go out there and say what’s on his
mind and it’s all the liberal media’s
fault right I hear that then on the
complete opposite side say wait a minute
Time magazine was just bought by the
founder of salesforce.com for 350
million dollars you mean to tell me
somebody on the right couldn’t about
Time magazine for 350 million dollars
how much influence does it have so when
I hear that part on the conservative
side the right side Republicans calling
the left snowflakes I see the other said
that sometimes conservatives Republicans
if you calling them snowflakes why don’t
you could also compete and buy some
media and create some media for yourself
there aren’t any social media platforms
that are pretty much owned by somebody
on the right or conservative so that’s
why it’s the question from you saying
you know what do you think about media
is it a majority controlled on the other
side and why aren’t the Republicans or
the people on the right doing something
about it we’re at least 50/50 medias
50/50 where I can get up and say you
know what I agree I disagree they’re
full of it these guys are full of it but
I have an opinion versus 80% tells me to
go look once I think part of it the
argument that the large-scale social
media providers were politically biased
in some important senses only existed
for about three or four years in any
real sense right it’s really expanded I
would say since the election that’s
thrown by the left yeah yeah I mean I
don’t think people necessarily thought
five years ago that Facebook and Google
were primarily left at least to the
degree that they’re accused of as being
now
well Silicon Valley for the most Peter
Thiel would be left if you think about
Silicon Valley the only person that you
got to be worried about it right but how
long has that really been a contentious
issue like Google has only been a
company that people had had mixed
opinions about for about two years
like people were pretty happy let’s say
a handful of years yeah but nothing
nothing to the plan worse all right I
agree with you so strike a part but if
you think about CNN you know MSNBC
Washington Tom New York
some of that is is purely that’s true
short but to some degree that was
balanced by Fox News I think part of the
reason that there are a channel again is
fair enough but to some degree that’s
balanced I think part of the reason that
there aren’t more conservative social
media platforms is because it wasn’t
obvious until relatively recently that
that was a necessity now but I still
think your point is well-taken if the
Conservatives want to do something about
the the hypothetically liberal bias of
the large-scale social media companies
then they’re free to go out and do
something about it but I don’t think
they’ve I don’t think they’ve considered
that a problem for for that mutineers
they have you don’t think they’ve seen
that as a problem do you think I mean
i-i’ve been following American politics
say for I mean I come from Iran so for
us we know Jimmy Carter the influence
played in Iran and my mom’s family’s
communist outsides imperialist I lived
in Germany two years of refugee camp so
I’ve had to follow politics for quite
some time because it’s affected my life
right and when when you see politics
here I would say 20 years of me at least
looking at it I think a lot of its been
on the left but Department the reason
I’m asking this is I’m not looking for
being right I don’t think it’s good to
be 80 percent either side like I think
what shoes Shapiro Rubin a rogue in some
of us what we doing about them when we
talk about capitalism I think that is
very healthy but I also think John
Oliver is good I also think John Stewart
is good I think some of that is also
there because we need both sides to see
one is certainly the case that the
people that you just described aren’t
having any shortage of opportunity to
get they’re married or not I mean I mean
but the control at the top that’s the
thing when I say control at the top
where distrust at the top do ya know
like Ruben tweeted out yesterday he said
that he’s got reports from hundreds of
people that that have been described
from his channel you know and the
problem is well is that true or is it
not true the problem is is that well the
trust for YouTube for example has been
damaged
you know when Google shut me down they
shot my youtube channel down they shot
my email channels down all of them one
day everything a thousands and thousands
of emails on Gmail everything for the
last shuttle completely I couldn’t get
access at all I couldn’t get actually
with my calendar but I was appalled it
was absolutely horrible
does not concern you let horse it
concerns me so was which to DuckDuckGo
yesterday did you yeah well I’m simply
with it yes and you said you’re gonna
get off to you at Lincoln about your
offer to I don’t think it’s a good idea
but you said I should we on être should
know you’re saying I’m thinking about no
longer going on good and kind of writing
more articles I might because your son
recommended that you look more wrong
there’s other like I could use read it
more for example don’t use read it much
and I already have a good I think I
think you’re writing you you you when
you write and I read the article
obviously when you wrote on your website
said I shouldn’t have just said this on
Twitter let me elaborate I mean I read
it you know and then you said yourself
it’s just because I say something
doesn’t mean I’m right I was thinking
and not every thought I’m saying means
I’m right but I was thinking about that
right so but when you go deeper into it
I see that for someone this is
interesting how he’s wired no my only
concern is the fact that look in Iran
the Shah was worried about today today
was a group of Communists in Iran and
everything they wanted to do find him
and trying to get rid of him right now
so my gosh we can’t have these concept
coming and then people were so afraid of
today that they were forgot about how
many or Comenius and you know France
they never have to worry about it he
came in and am bummed so the fear of
communism of what if they could take
over made him kind of give more ability
for how many to create influence that
led to a revolution when nine million
people in streets of Iran revolt and
boom Iran goes from one day one the best
countries in the Middle East coming up
and the Middle East was safe next thing
you know the war half a million people
getting killed and all this other stuff
so I think sometimes being worried about
what other people are gonna say they
disagree with I don’t think it leads to
good things but today hundred social
media platforms are controlled on one
side that’s a scary thought Jordan if
all of a sudden capitalism becomes a
curse word and anybody uses capitalism
hey you know actually see things in the
u.s. balance quite nicely you know I
mean there is tremendous control on this
a left-leaning end of things in academia
and in in the classic mainstream media
but you know the the electoral process
seems to have balanced that out quite
nicely because the Republicans I agree
yeah so I agree the American system
seems to work I agree with you
absolutely it’ll be really interesting
to see what happens in November’s
elections American system works well
however this is the one part that I
think
we have to realize that you know Ron
Paul started social media influence on
politics Ron Paul raised I think six
million dollars in 2004 on myspace in 24
hours in 24 hours here eight-six may
rise like Obama’s like what he’s got
raised six million dollars in 24 hours a
month and he’s how old I’m young I’m
cool I’m handsome I want to raise
billions and then he took social media
and he raised and he’s a two-term
president and then Trump you take the
Jack Dorsey’s Twitter out I don’t know
if Trump’s president today so Trump
learn how to use Twitter to his
advantage now that everybody knows the
power of social media the concern now
becomes everyone knows what you need to
do if you want to be a president two
years from now or six years from now
right you know if you play the game of
social media whoever’s got the big
following so now the people at the top
who control these social media platforms
are more powerful than some governments
are so this is why when you say the
electoral college you know the system
works it works today but you know that
isn’t necessarily I mean well we have no
idea how all this technological
transformation will destabilize and
transform things going into the future
that’s what I mean part of the reason
that I’m going on this tour for example
and talking to people about individual
responsibility is that I see this like
everyone does this unbelievably rapid
process of technological transformation
approaching us I think well we better be
wise enough to handle it because we
can’t predict it right so to the degree
that we have character flaws that could
be rectified the consequences those are
going to be magnified by our increased
technological power so I’m hoping that
everybody can try to get their act
together a little bit more carefully and
that’s that’s also being extraordinarily
fun in this like the the lecture so I’ve
been in 85 cities since March that’s
amazing yeah since it is it’s been it’s
unbeliev and I’ve been fortunate cuz
I’ve had lots of good people helping me
make sure this works and it has worked
so far but it’s really quite it’s very
heartening because all these every night
I talk to about 2,000 people not every
night but like four nights out of four
nights and a week as far as I can tell
they’re all primarily coming there
because they want to put their house
together from a psychological
perspective they’re interested in
developing a vision in writing and
taking on responsibility and I have
dozens of people every night who who
have told me that over the last couple
of years their lives have been
transformed they’ve gone from a bad
place we know where they were really
lost in the nihilistic they’ve decided
that they were gonna do something with
their life you know I had I tweeted out
something today that some kid kid wrote
me he said two years ago he didn’t have
any friends he didn’t he didn’t have an
intimate relationship he didn’t know
where he was going his life he didn’t
have a job like he was just you know
nothing was going for him and he’s doing
a philosophy degrees in the second year
he has a good job he’s got a girlfriend
he’s got friends that care forms like
he’s put his life for another and so I
hear this sort of story from people all
the time people stopped me on the street
and tell me this which is lovely right
to go to a city you’ve never been to
this happens to me all the time I’ll be
walking down the street someone will
come up and say I’m sorry that I’m
bothering you and they’re not because
people are very polite
they’ve been very polite to me say you
know I wasn’t in such a good place year
ago two years ago I’ve been trying to
put my life together I’ve been listening
to your lectures and here’s a bunch of
things that are way better for me it’s
like right on man the more about the
better and I think that’s the right way
forward
you know this which is why I don’t
really regard myself as a political
person I have political interests but
mostly I must I operate I try to operate
at the level of psychology it’s like
better for people to put their lives
together it’s important and I think each
person is crucially important I think
that’s a predicate of of the democratic
state right we wouldn’t let people vote
people wouldn’t have the responsibility
to vote to determine the outcome of the
state if there wasn’t a deep belief in
our culture that each person was vital
and I do believe that I believe that the
world is constructed so that each person
plays a vital role and so every time
that someone gets their act together
it’s like great great that’s gonna have
way more positive effect than you think
and stave off an awful lot of trouble
because someone who goes bad can do an
unbelievable amount of damage or even
just not going bad is a good thing so
you know sometimes you you read this you
know articles or videos of America’s
more divided than it’s ever been before
and then you read some research and it
says you know it’s actually not the
truth America is more United than we’ve
ever been before it’s a better place
than it’s ever been before I know you’re
a Canadian looking in but you’re going
also speaking every way 85 places you
speak since March that’s a lot of people
you’re shaking hands with that you’re
talking to and 150 people that stick
around after
words they’re having a dialogue this is
more info you have here than the average
human being what are you feeling about
the conditions of America are we more
divided than we’ve ever been before or
are we actually we’re definitely not
mean before because you guys had a civil
war and we’re certainly not at that
point and I don’t think that the current
division is any greater than it was in
the 1960s in fact I think it’s less I
think there’s more there was more
tension well the war was going well yes
there was a war I mean that makes a big
difference you know I mean people people
young people particularly now who
haven’t been through that don’t realize
what that’s like it’s not like I’ve been
through that personally but a war is a
big deal and a universal draft I mean
that was high stakes bargaining you know
and then things were pretty divided
later under Nixon that was the end of
the 60s and then they were divided again
under Reagan there were huge scale
protests under Reagan and the Cold War
had really heated up and everyone was
afraid that we were gonna push the
nuclear button and so there’s plenty of
division then even in in my lifetime
I’ve seen times when I think that your
country the United States was more
divided than it is now there is a fair
bit of polarization now I know that if
you look at how what’s happened to
political attitudes the the typical
Democrat has moved farther to the left
over the last 20 years the Republicans
haven’t moved that much they’re still
relatively that median Republican is
still relatively close to the center but
I think a lot of the polarization is
actually being driven by the death of
the mainstream media like well you know
you always want to look at what the
consequence of a technological
transformation is and this is a big
transformation you know there used to be
flagship media sources that were
basically attempting to give a balanced
picture and I think they did a pretty
good job 30 years ago Time magazine even
the mainstream news programs they had a
professionalism that was associated with
their journalism that had some degree of
objectivity and that’s fragmented and
and it’s fragmenting because there’s all
these media sources like innumerable
media sources and so it’s it’s driving
people who are trying to get attention
to desperation and they exaggerate the
polarity and so that puts everyone on
and Twitter puts people on edge like and
this is part of the reason I’d thought
about I’m still thinking about what to
do with Twitter maybe I should not use
it for a month because Twitter I think
my experience with Twitter is that I’m
wandering around in the world and
everything’s fine the streets are
peaceful the people I meet every the
people I meet are doing well that your
cities I’ve been to I don’t know how
many American cities in the last four
months like 40 or 50 they look great you
know I mean the everywhere I go there’s
construction and and the country feels
like it’s moving how does one person
that’s watching the news and that’s what
the news they get from it they consume
news through media I’m watching CNN Fox
MSNBC whatever yeah how do I tell apart
between the truth and propaganda I don’t
know I mean when I counsel my clinical
clients who are depressed or anxious one
of the things I’ve always told them to
do over the last few decades is to
disconnect themselves from the news this
was before the social media and you
still believe that today well I hadn’t
see you asked me about CNN earlier like
I haven’t watched mainstream television
news since like 1985 you gotta be no I’m
not let me get this straight I want to
hear you say this one more time you
haven’t watched mainstream media since
1985 no very little I didn’t have a TV I
didn’t have a TV since nineteen about
1985 Alessa me watch CNN probably in an
airport for a few minutes I personally
never watched you so if I don’t come to
your place I know you have some
interesting collection of art that you
collect but if I come to your place your
TV’s not gonna be on CNN there’s no TV
there’s no TV new I haven’t had a TV
since 1985 I realized back in 1985 that
news wasn’t news if it was only news for
a day it wasn’t important so I read
magazines you know I’ve read I read
Harper’s or I’m not at the moment
Harper’s Atlantic Monthly The Economist
those were my basic sources for news now
that’s changed you see because I got
tangled up so badly and scandal two
years ago that I’ve been on top of
especially social media like an obsessed
addict for two years trying to manage it
you know but it’s not clear to me that
that’s been a good thing for like for
your sanity or for it’s it’s
certainly I don’t think Twitter is a
good thing for my sanity Twitter is so
contentious it’s so I mean if you want a
daily dose of hate you can get it in 10
minutes on Twitter you know if I post
something you know there’s there’s
there’s a number of comments about
whatever I posted and one out of four of
them is brutally rude and obnoxious as
nasty as it can possibly be and that’s
very very common and like you know
people are quite sensitive to negative
information we’re more sensitive to
negative information than we are the
positive information and so and our not
complaining I don’t have to use Twitter
it’s a completely voluntary choice and
I’m certainly a massive beneficiary of
the existence of social media so I’m not
complaining about it I don’t have a
right to complain about but it exists in
absolute contrast to my experiences in
the world like it’s not like I’m walking
down the street and one person out of 4
jumps out of an alley and like curses me
I haven’t had a single negative
interaction with an individual that’s
not true I met one really drunk woman in
in in Dublin and she called me a wanker
but she was great the piece of work
though was a timid husband by her size
that after Connor lost maybe she was
pissed out because maybe maybe she was
but but I’ve had thousands of
interactions with individual people on
the street let’s say in airports and so
forth in the last six months and every
single one of them has been
overwhelmingly positive
so that’s reality then I go into Twitter
and it’s like oh my god it’s just brutal
doesn’t really bother you though do you
really get a bother and listen but all
of us you know no one likes negative
comments like right before this Mario
sitting I’m preparing my notes and Mars
like look at the three negative comments
we got to them like Mario I’m doing an
interview yes in your tone sir so
obviously before doing some like this
but does it does it bother you a little
bit when you read those Nicole
definitely read oh definitely well look
when when I was when I was still working
as a professor I’m on unpaid leave at
the moment you know I get my my feedback
from my students and my feedback is
being generally extraordinarily positive
so maybe there’ll be 50 comments from
students three of them will be negative
something like that or two and and often
quite nasty
negative ones and uh you remember the
negative ones and that is what people
are like we’re much more sensitive to
negative and that the reason for that is
negative things can kill you positive
things can make you a little happier so
going back to it I guess what you are
saying is with the social media platform
you saying from 1985 you didn’t consume
any content on TV outside of pure
accident there’s no TV at your house in
the last two years you’ve done it
because social media so you kind of have
to be aware yeah I had to be on top of
it has okay so this is an interesting
question are you happier now that you’re
consuming the content last two years or
do you find yourself being man I’m a
little bit more anxious than I was two
years ago was a little oh I’m Way more
anxious really oh yeah are you waiting
about going on a diet again from social
media like well no not not look it’s
it’s it’s complicated because my life is
gone I mean my life was fairly broad two
years ago I had a number of businesses I
had my clinical practice I was working
as a professor I was writing I was
involved in lots of things and so I had
plenty to do you know but since then
it’s gone like this and some of its
unbelievably good and some of it’s
really really bad and so the breadth of
it has extended and so like all right
there’s no shortage of ridiculously
positive things that are happening to me
on an ongoing basis I can’t even believe
it but the same is true on the negative
end and so what’s happened is the the
range of my emotional experience has
expanded almost unbearably I would say
so
and again I’m not complaining about that
because I couldn’t choose to do it
differently but some of this has also
been a matter of management it’s like it
is it is literally the case that
although it’s been a little better over
the last three or four months for about
18 months in a row I was at the center
of a scandal that could have taken me
out at least twice a week
so constant non-stop scandal of one form
or another and so that took a lot of
juggling and management to see what was
going on and I was paying attention to
social media and trying to figure out
how to respond in the press and on
YouTube and and on my blog and all of
these sorts of things trying to learn
how to do that and so it’s been an
obsessive learning experience let’s say
I
has served me very very well my blog
works out very well for me the podcast I
have a podcast it’s very popular that’s
worked out really well Facebook I don’t
pay much attention to Facebook although
I post on it Twitter that’s that’s
something else
Twitter is this you don’t know what to
do with Twitter I don’t know what to do
with Twitter I think I go back and forth
I I go back and forth you know there’s a
part of me that there’s people I keep up
with on Twitter the people I follow some
of these IDW types so to speak you know
I see what Shapiro’s posting i see what
brett weinstein is posting and sam
harris and I kind of keep in the loop
that way and I feel a moral obligation
to be to keep up and I have nine hundred
thousand followers and I feel an
obligation to them too but there’s this
also this addictive curiosity you know
that that that what’s happening what’s
happening what’s happening what’s
happening and I tried to pull myself
away from that on the TV news because
it’s the same thing except in much less
concentrated form and it was good for me
and I do think if it’s only important
today it’s not important right if it’s
news it doesn’t matter if you don’t know
about it for a week it’s still news but
I still haven’t figured out how to
completely deal with all this social
reach I have at my fingertips I don’t
know exactly how to manage it you feel
there’s an addiction to because you know
that’s the whole thing with social media
addiction to feel like you are committed
to seeing what everybody else is doing
because it’s a part of loyalty like I
gotta be loyal to them and I kind of
feel like they’ve been loyal to me yeah
there’s some of that going on there’s
definitely some of that there’s also
there’s also that there’s also and like
I am insatiably curious about things and
so Twitter is terrible for that because
it’s just continual hits of information
so I’m sure yeah I mean if you taught me
reading a book a day and you all of a
sudden have all this information to your
hands like what is he say what’s going
over here what about this oh my gosh
what’s it so you can get really caught
up with that yes and that’s gonna happen
a lot with social media last question
here before we go into speedrun
educational system your professor I mean
you’ve been in the environment you see
what’s going on I know sometimes when
we’re talking about early 80% of media
is on the left one of the stats you read
about is that
one in twelve professors in colleges
today are conservative one in 12 that
means 11 are not right so you know what
do you think is the influence of
colleges and how do you feel about the
current educational system period I’ve
seen large institutions fall apart
because they make a fatal error I think
universities are making seven fatal
errors top-heavy administration that
keeps growing okay
increase in the number of part-time
untenured faculty members who have no
administrative or or academic power
massively increasing insane increases in
tuition combined with indentured
servitude for students right you get a
student loan you can’t declare
bankruptcy now so that means that the
burgeoning administration has learned
how to pick the pockets of the young
people’s future earnings they entice
them into university and offer them
extended adolescence with no
responsibilities and the price they
garner from them is too garnished their
future earnings crooked game ethics
committees absolute catastrophe the the
the dominance of this post this weird
nonsensical alliance between the
postmodern types and the neo-marxist
types which makes no sense
philosophically given the post modernist
stated what would you call it skepticism
for meta-narratives why the hell they’ve
aligned themselves with the Marxist is
below beyond me except that I think
post-modernism is just a shell game for
for Marxism that’s another fatal error
the gerrymandering of the grade system
so that’s I think I got six there all of
those there they’re not good they’re
they’re fatal I think all of them and so
I think they I don’t know what’s gonna
happen to the university system over the
next twenty years but I’m certainly not
optimistic about it so and I’ve hired
some people this is like this is a big
problem we just discussed and I’ve got
this little solution and so I know I’m
talking about a little semi-interesting
book if you were to write about it well
I’ve hired people I’ve hired some people
to build an online education platform
and where they’ve been working on it for
six months and we have a bit of a
prototype and we’re trying to figure out
how to build an alternative you know you
said look if if the Conservatives are so
concerned about the liberal media why
the hell don’t they go out and build
their own media empire it’s like well if
I’m concerned about the education system
then why don’t I try to generate an
alternative to it you’re doing it yeah
I’m trying to I mean the probability
that it will succeed is like zero
it’s an impossible task but we’re trying
to build a platform that would help
people use their online time more
productively and keep track of it so
imagine that everything that you taught
yourself on YouTube could be accredited
and you could be you could be rewarded
for that across time and may be guided
through it so that you could you could
track your educational progress through
along a whole wide range of potential
learning opportunities we’d like to
build an online portal that would make
your use of your online time much more
productive and engaging that so that’s
that’s what we’re aiming soon oh god who
knows we have a prototype we have a
prototype and we’ve applied to Y
Combinator I don’t know if we’ll get
accepted maybe we will maybe we won’t we
thought all alternatives lined up well
let us know about it we have some
context we would love to know more about
I will let you know with the right
people what’s next for you by the way I
mean what are your aspirations I mean
you know everybody has inspirations
though you’re talking about right
everybody well I can tell you what’s
happening in the next year but that’s as
far out is it long look oh so you don’t
know no filter right Minister follow six
nothing like that so we’re never gonna
see Prime Minister Jordan Peterson
that’s not that’s not in the equation
not that I can foresee at the moment I
mean god only knows because I can’t look
that far out I’m more interested in what
I’m doing at the moment I think it’s
more useful I can tell you what I’m
doing for the next year okay so next
month I’m going to Europe I have like 15
talks in Europe all over the place and
then Hawaii Los Angeles Calgary
Vancouver more talks and then Florida
and then I’m going to Australia New
Zealand in February for another lecture
tour if the Y Combinator thing pops up
I’ll go to San Francisco for January and
February and March I’m going back to
Europe I’ll probably hit another 25
cities then from May to September I’m
gonna hopefully finish up my next book
which is called twelve moral more rules
for life beyond mere order that’s the
plan and then from September to December
next year I’m going to I did a whole
series of lectures on Genesis I want to
go back after that but go to Exodus and
do a series of lectures on Exodus so
that’s out for the next year and after
that I don’t know I have no idea
that’s plenty of planning for heads for
how you’re planning this well for how
fluid and crazy things are right now
that’s
if I get through all that that’ll be a
miracle III think if you were to start a
university or online university or
somewhere to educate thinking processing
decision making process I think that
would that would that wouldn’t just be
something that’ll do well in the states
here that’ll be worldwide we also want
to build modules we’ve been trying to
figure out how to do this to teach
people to read to teach them to think to
teach them to speak and present to teach
them to negotiate so part of the aligned
with what we’re thinking it’s so weird
like this stuff he’s saying yeah well
there’s a there’s a crying need for it
and and obviously with the current
technology that we possess it would be
possible to educate everyone
hypothetically and we’d also like to do
it at low cost so one of our goals is to
is to make a high quality University
equivalent education process that would
be like one 1/10 to 1/100 of the current
cost that’s powerful that and we have a
need for that so the fact that you’re
doing that I’m looking forward to it I
think I think the way you know you’re
you your ideas have been growing and
people are looking at and being so
receptive where nowadays everybody
sounds Jordan Peterson Jordan Peterson
well maybe one day if the man upstairs
has plans who knows maybe you know the
Trudeau last name may be replaced by
Peterson last name you know in a place
like Canada but we’ll see what happened
there definitely you are very
presidential Prime Minister s type of a
person and you’re you’re good with
fashion as well you know how to put it
together so you’re very fashionable
anyway so let’s do speed run let’s do
speed run I’ll say some things a name of
a person just tell me the first thing
that comes to your mind okay whatever it
may be all right Drake male duck Kanye
West king of the IDW that’s Dave Reubens
really okay Trump anomaly Trudeau Justin
Trudeau that I just shake my head at
that okay oh man who capitalized without
virtue on the name of his father Wow yes
why was right he had an ounce of
character he would have never run I’m
not happy about him
he had no right well he had a right he’s
a citizen he can run he didn’t earn his
name not impressed why do you say that’s
a specific because his father was very
famous sure and so that put Trudeau at
menace advantage with regards to moving
into a leadership position in Canada
it’s not excusable you should move ahead
on your own merits especially if you’re
daring to do something like run a
country you have a moral duty if you
have the advantage of a name you have a
moral duty to supersede the
accomplishments of the person who bore
that name and gave it its weight before
you dare capitalize on it in the public
sphere and there’s Trudeau did none of
that he can he knows how to behave he
knows how to act in public he had the
upbringing for it other than that
there’s nothing there not that I can see
and if there was he wouldn’t have run
the way he did he’s not not an
impressive person in my estimation some
strong opinions there’s he appointed
fifty percent of females to 50 percent
of his cabinet because it was what he
says well because it’s 2015 it’s like no
quarter of your elected members of
parliament were female if you would your
job was to pick the most qualified
people period regardless of their
genitalia because they’re leading the
country you picked the most qualified
people
steady advocated his responsibility to
make those difficult decisions and then
wallpapered it over with a this casual
virtue of well I’m going to promote
women it’s like no you’re going to
promote competent people you weasel no
excuse for it Wow I’d say one word but
that was a few hundred words yeah well
I’ll take it we’ll go with that
okay how about vegans to each his own
man Jim Jefferies he’s a comedian
more power to him I like comedians Kathy
Newman failure to learn from experience
Alex Jones don’t persecute someone who’s
paranoid it’s a big mistake
strategically speaking you know lots of
people think conspiratorial II it’s it’s
a mode of thinking and perhaps Alex
Jones a little more than everyone else
they didn’t just stop Alex Jones they
stopped all the people that were
listening to him all those people
weren’t stupid it wasn’t like they
believed everything else Jones said she
left him the hell alone so it’s not he’s
a canary in the coal mine I think Karl
Marx a testament to the murderous power
of resentment Elon Musk amazing he’s
amazing he’s done five impossible things
that’s amazing it’s absolutely beyond
belief it’s hard to believe he exists he
made an electric car and then he
shorted into space right either one of
those things really hard but to do them
together and actually do them it doesn’t
even seem real and he lives during our
time yes that’s what yeah we don’t ice
time but we he’s current so look so
here’s what I wanted a few dohman I want
to get a signed copy of one of your
books yeah and we give it away to
undervalue tanners since everybody’s
been asking about you know Jordan
Peterson being on here I’m about you
tell me dr. Jordan Peterson I figure we
get a signed book out you know you have
a self authoring website yeah you teach
people how to write book so I’m going to
talk a little bit about it’s a program
it’s an online writing program that
helps people straighten out their past
write an autobiography understand their
personality virtues and faults and to
develop a vision and a strategy for the
future it’s a really useful program the
future authoring part which is the part
that helps you develop a vision if
University students do that it increases
the probability they’ll stay in
university by about 30% so and we’ve
done that with thousands of people and
so if you’re trying to get your act
together this is an excellent way to sit
down and have a discussion with yourself
about what’s important where you what
I’m asking myself yeah Wow it breaks
down the process is planning your life
and I’m really curious because the way
you were explaining it earlier so this
program is 29 bucks you said earlier
that’s right and you get all three
programs and get an extra one for a
friend how about we get a cold yeah that
we put on there they can you let’s use
PBD maybe this is about a 20% discount
okay so here’s what we’re gonna do this
what I want you to do go to is self
authoring com sign up for the program
29.95 there’ll be a 20% discount if you
use the code PBD then when you buy this
program tweet me and him with the
handles that we have right next to our
names you should see it it’s right next
to our names and you and I will pick a
winner and we’ll send send a signed copy
to one of the people that will pick us a
winner because sounds like a good that’d
be good hey yeah thanks so much for him
enjoyed it really really enjoyed looking
forward to next time Yeah right take
everybody much love bye-bye