the wound bills in the back was not a
fatal one I did help John Kennedy’s
brain yes well I assume it was john f
kennedy’s brain when the body first came
in and you sod did you notice anything
out of the ordinary there’s a portion of
the brain here that was missing there
was an incision in the scalp
why would there be an incision that’s a
good question throat one probably would
have come from over the bridge probably
right right off of the railroad what’s
who was it two people that benefited the
most him in soloq if the topic of JFK
assassination intrigues you you’re gonna
love today’s interview here’s why
obviously I’ve had other people on value
tenman before with Clint Hill who was a
former Secret Service agent he was the
first agent that jumped on the car when
John F Kennedy was shot we’ve also had
Abraham Bowden who was the first African
American Secret Service agent but today
we go complete different angle today I
wanted to sit down with somebody this is
very rare because it’s been 55 years
since the event the assassination
November 22nd 1963 when the autopsy
happened there were four people in the
room who did the autopsy he is one of
them and during the autopsy three people
held the brain this is what we have the
brain here he held the brain he was one
of them and he saw some stuff that’s
gonna surprise you and we’re time as
somebody that witnessed what he saw in
the brain that’s different than maybe
what you’ve read about and so we’re
gonna take a deep deep dive today on
what happened from the moment the body
was announced dead to the delivery to
Air Force One from there to protest that
the casket go with Jackie did it go with
somebody else what happened there all I
can tell you is I’m gonna ask one
question during this interview that I’m
so curious with the answer and we’re
gonna see what Jim Jenkins gonna tell us
today in this interview with that being
said Jim thank you so much for coming
down and being willing to open up and
talk about this topic with us thank you
for inviting your document it all over
the place if you go read any the you
know the autopsies any of the reports
whether it’s the Warren Commission
whatever the reports you read your
document or there are somebody that was
a part of it but you’ve not wanted to
come out and talk a lot about it now
obviously William a friend of yours who
decided to write a book with you kind of
maybe persuaded you to say this is a
story we need to go tell are you willing
to do it but first I want to thank you
secondly is that want to kind of a get
some thoughts from you on what caused
you not want to talk about it all this
year all these years and why now are you
a little bit more
I have to answer the people who asked me
and it’s like you know if I had told you
when I was in graduate school that I did
the autopsy
you know JFK would you ever believe me
and that’s kind of the way that I look
at it it was a part of it the fact that
you didn’t think people would believe
you if you told them that because if we
were friends let’s just say I’m your
friend and I’m your best man at your
wedding well you’re my best man at my
wedding and you told me something like
that like oh my gosh Jim that’s crazy to
really tell me about it I’d want to know
more as a friend on what you did you
seem like a private guy he seemed like a
simple man you don’t seem like a you
know he seemed like you just wanted
you’ve been married since August of 63
was there also part of it we just didn’t
want people to have a certain level of
intrusion on your personal life I think
a lot of it was that okay there’s a lot
of memories that I have in that book
that are specific but there are other
things in the book that I remember that
I’ve tried to you know try to tie in
some of the events when I first began
this book I was going to read and and I
have all kinds of books have a bookcase
the books that people have sent me over
the years I haven’t read them I’m from
Iran so it’s born in Iran I saw the war
I saw people dying I saw things that
happened that maybe you don’t
necessarily want to experience I saw
something weird scenes in my left with
ten thousand men flagellating their
backs on the streets and there’s a
streak of blood I mean I was eight years
old and I saw that that’s not something
I want to see again right
was this one of those things where you
said man this was so traumatic on me
that I don’t ever want to revisit it or
was it the fact that you were just doing
your job you have a lack of interest on
the topic like honestly you know it just
so happened I accidentally was chosen to
be a part of this I didn’t choose to be
a part of this I was just doing my job
which one would you say was more I think
the latter okay god I this is not a you
know it’s not a highlight of my life it
hasn’t affected my life at all but I
think that’s because I really you’re not
participated in it what’s the reasoning
though Paul O’Connor was the other core
woman right by the way just to say when
you say the other core mean the other
core man who was part of the RIT they
were too I was
only two of us Pauline George’s you know
being involved and that type of thing
I had other goals in my life most of the
participation that I have done was at
the encouragement of Paul Paul would
call me and say well you know this
individual once wants to interview you I
would be hissing about and he said well
if hall would tell me well he’s a good
guy
but it was it was a reluctance somewhat
hard you know I didn’t want to get
involved in all of what was going on is
this after the two gentlemen who were
kind of hostile to you with the HSC a
committee that they interviewed you even
after that you were open to it or after
he like I’m not doing any interviews
well the interview was interesting I was
in graduate school at that time I was in
my office and I got a call from a lady
and she told me that these two
individuals Kelly and Purdy were going
to show up at my house on such-and-such
state is such a such time and they were
going to talk to me about my
participation and in the autopsy I said
no you’re not I said you’re not going to
come to my house I don’t know you you’re
strangers so then she told me that this
was a congress mandated Commission and
that I was compelled to do this or they
would subpoena me at that time I was at
Jackson Mississippi and in the medical
school there and so I went to my local
congressman one of his aides checked to
make sure that this was legitimate and
he suggested that I meet in his office
so I met Purdy and Kelly in his office
it wasn’t an amiable type situation they
had told me that that Ferdie and Kelly
were actually lawyers for the House
Select Committee anyway they were going
to come in to take a deposition
well when the secretary for a
congressman checks their credentials we
found out that indeed Purdy was an
attorney the Kelly was an FBI agent what
were they trying to get from you though
I mean what did they would they
conspiracy a conspiratorial did trying
to they basically were looking for
confirmation of the Warren Commission
findings they wanted me to
firm that the magic bullet was yeah yeah
and in a single Bullet theory was
correct and they never really asked me
you know basically what I did what I saw
or what I participated in and every time
I would they were they were always
saying well that King possibly happened
because of this this and this they say
well you know I don’t know another
witnesses said this there are there was
only the doctors and Paul so I knew that
you know what they were saying came from
from one of those individuals and this
one you knew that in a moment based on
the question because see I until Paul
called me in and talked to me about this
interview they were are this deposition
I really never discussed the autopsy
with Paul and so wait a minute so after
the autopsy you and Paul didn’t have a
debrief you guys didn’t talk about it
and nothing ever I don’t know no because
we were given orders you know we were
given orders by the Secretary of the
Navy and also by Department of Defense
not to discuss him so so the only reason
you were open to the House Committee
coming to you is because it’s coming
from Congress well that it wasn’t Plus
that was the first time they rescinded
the orders got it we they sent us
letters for sending Miller’s when they
interviewed you did did you get a
feeling that they were for what the
Warren Commission came out and they
results that’s what they said Oh were
they against it to try to get conspiracy
were they kind of trying to get the
check mark from you to say that he also
agrees that what they said in the Warren
Commission is accurate I said I believe
that’s I mean that was my my feeling did
you watch JFK movies did you watch the
you know did you watch anything so you
do know till today you don’t you don’t
watch or follow any of this you’ve never
been to the Dealey Plaza before no for
55 years you have fully disconnected
that part of your life to not have to be
tied to it I was actually surprised
about
no interest that people had in this
after the 50 years we were surprised by
them oh yes why would you be surprised
by its a president that was assassinated
was well I mean the assassination and to
me in such an enigma and it’s never had
a legal conclusion the conclusion has
always been political would you want to
see a legal conclude yes I’d like to see
usually participate in a legal yes oh so
you would be yeah so you so it’s not the
fact that you’re just trying to set it
aside and not do anything with it so you
would be you would like to see like you
know what I think was 1995 when they
came out with the AR RB when they came
out and they wanted to reinvestigate and
find out what’s going on and they went
through certain things you would want to
see somebody else open it up again to go
through an investigation to find out
what happened a legal investigation I
know not political the investigation but
everything even even the record Review
Board which is what you’re speaking of
it had restrictions when the Clark
Commission was there all of the people
appointed to the Commission had ties to
the government they had obligations to
the government the pathologist’s that
reviewed the case and so forth are the
doctors I’m not sure although more
pathologists but they had ties to
doctors they had grants they were
participating in federal projects and
that type of stuff and the one step
probably would have been more objective
certainly people like dr. Sarawak after
the House Select they were they were
kind of excluded they were all pushed
away so there’s never in my in my mind
in my opinion there’s never been a real
objective committee or anything that’s
delved into this why do you think why is
it because if we found that we would all
be well I think that we that that gets
into some things and and I’m only
judging and I can only judge by the
autopsy in and there
more people out there that know more
about anything outside that more than I
do
but I it just doesn’t make sense
that what we saw at the morgue what we
did it to more and what I participate in
like the brain you know there were two
FBI agents that said there was no brain
Paul said there was no brain but yet dr.
Humes took a brain out of the cranium
handed it to dr. Boswell and dr. Boswell
and I went over and I knelt down and he
gave me to the brain I turned it upside
down put it in the sling you did I did
help John Kennedy’s brain yes well I
assume it was john f kennedy’s brother
that’s one other part right so right and
what you know is the book describes and
in that I don’t know if you I’ve been
asked many times is it was it john f
kennedy’s brain do you think it was I
haven’t I really don’t have any any way
of knowing and neither does anyone else
unless somebody who who really
participated in in you know covering up
some parts of the assassination can come
forth and say now I’m also personal
mistake in that since there’s so much
stuff that’s come out that if I relate
it back to what I saw and so forth
there’s always a question about it it
sounds like you believe it’s important
for us to know the truth on what
happened but you also believe that if
it’s a government investigation being
done whoever’s involved on the inside if
it’s only the government controlling and
not on the other side we’re only gonna
get the answer from somebody’s on the
inside well for instance I’ve worked
with a friend of mine who’s a
neurologist I’ve tried to be allowed to
go into the archives and review the
photographs and any evidence that they
have there I’ve been denied but yet he
he was allowed in and to see the x-rays
and so forth
now those x-rays I
fade-in I actually helped position of
the body and so forth and when the first
set of x-rays that we did I remember the
first photographs went ahead was first
unwrapped they took photographs all
during the autopsy and I was busy so I
really wasn’t paying much attention to
that but there’s a photographs from the
Fox photographs they’re strange but let
me ask you this because you said you
didn’t have interest but why were you
asking to money to get the photographs
it was there a moment where you kind of
felt obligated to want to find out again
some answers because well it sounds like
there’s a little bit of conflicted the
willingness the desire and also at the
same time wanted to stay away three
years ago I committed to this to writing
this book and all of this has occurred
within that time frame so you asked for
the photographs on the last three years
oh yeah so your desire to want to go
deeper on this is the last three years
well I have talked to you like said the
friend of mine the neurologist and he
and I have discussed what he saw in the
archives and what I remember seeing or
what I actually participated in and
remember seeing we’ve come to some
conclusions but not really things that I
would consider to be emphatically true
okay as far as participating in this
three years ago when I when I finally
agreed to do this if William wood would
furnish because I I’m basically finding
in medicine and science and I’m not a
journalist or a writer and he agreed to
help with you then his first suggestion
was that I need to start reading the
material I started a couple of books but
then I began to realize that if I read
all of this material then I may have a
little brain melt you know and it might
come in because you know 50-year old
memories are difficult enough to begin
with so I stopped doing that and then I
began to talk to the people that I knew
we’re at Bethesda not necessarily in the
morgue
we’re at Bethesda and then I I was
fortunate enough to be able to talk to
the honor guard people gentleman named
Dennis David who was in charge of a
detail that actually he was an e6 who
became an officer later on I’m you sir
for we love and yours I think right yeah
what did he tell you when you spoke to
him well he he and I talked about the
unloading of the body from from the
black hearse Dennis gave me more of a
time frame than anything else because I
was in the morgue actually from about
3:30 in the afternoon to about 8 9
o’clock the next morning
you knew the body was coming we were
told about he was coming yes
would you mind us going through the
timeline of what happened from the
moment they found out he’s dead
to the moments because that’s where
that’s where the challenges with this
story right I mean you write autopsies
I’ve been challenged for me when I look
at it I’m a numbers guy so first they
find out he’s dead boom checkmark then
they say let’s put his body they wrap
him up in a nice they put him in a
really nice casket they take him to Air
Force One that’s number two Lyndon
Johnson’s waiting there rather than
going back to DC to have the body being
delivered to the plane which is kind of
a little bit wild for that gets to Air
Force One then they fly back to Bethesda
DC they land they take that nice casket
and they put it in the automobile that
Jackie Kennedy is writing you to go to
where you’re at the morgue they arrived
actually at 7:30 but the body doesn’t
come in to 717 and the body doesn’t come
in till 8:00 and the challenge that I’m
seeing there is another automobile
delivers cascade that’s used for Vietnam
veterans back in the days just to gb
type of casket that apparently they took
John F Kennedy and they put him in a
body bag and they put him there and that
was brought to you guys at around 6:00
at 6:30 there’s an hour and a half
before 8 o’clock so that’s the part
that’s completely cure see and again – I
really don’t have any insight into that
either but reports are at the boys young
report and yeah all of that
him and Dennis David’s timing and seeing
this I had to have a timeline for this
as I was writing it I had no personal
timeline because you know all I saw was
the body being brought in in what I
consider to be a shipping casket that
was striking in the fact is that it was
the president’s body in that in that
such a ordinarily you saw that yes yes
you saw the shipping cast yes I did and
that’s not typical protocol to put a
president under shipping casket I
wouldn’t think so
you witnessed at yours yes I saw
checkmark in that time well you saw that
part yeah the casket came in and it was
brought in by by people they were in
business suits mmm and they may have
been a couple of military officers with
it but they were brought it was brought
in and it was brought into the morgue
proper sat down on the floor Paul helped
them take the body out and they put the
body on the table in front of me now
I’ve you I’m used to Dennis Davis
timeline and I use it because sergeant
Morgan’s action report stated 635
several years ago we talked to an
individual his name and was well he was
dr. J Scott I believe and he’s told us
that he was the officer of the day for
the Vitesse a hospital during the
conversation was with william law
William asked him what time the body
came in and he immediately said 6:30 so
I took sergeant Boren and dr. Scott as
collaboration for the time that Dennis
quoted and then I used that time as a
lie as a timeline for the autopsy at
that point in time I had memories but I
I wasn’t quite sure of sequencing of
them and then over the three years that
I’ve been writing this book I basically
just write sections and
certain things and so forth and then
each section would begin to support RS
or create questions about that
particular memory the timeline that I
use like I said as his Dennis’s that
timeline gave me the ability to say the
body was here at 6:30 when when the body
was put on the table
everybody was asked to leave the body
was still it was on the table it’s still
wrapped in the sheets had anybody was
separate and then dr. Boswell left the
morgue for I don’t know 15 20 minutes
maybe
and I just assumed he was going back up
to the laboratory to you know talk to
dr. Humes and while the bodies in front
of you yeah the body is in the morgue
and the morgue what Paul and I this is
what time I assumed that had to be
somewhere between 6:30 and 7:00 o’clock
if I say it took him approximately 10
minutes to unload the body from the
Hurst and bring it to do that because
see Dennis in his his group or his his
crew they did not bring him into the
morgue they brought it to the morgue
door according to Dennis and then
someone back yeah and somebody took you
from there the morgue was set up where
there was little any room that had Coll
boxes where we put the bodies to me and
then then it came into the morgue proper
so let me ask you from the moment it was
delivered to the morgue from the back
not the one with Jackie Kennedy had a
right around 7:30 to 8:00 o’clock I’m
talking to one that arrived early from
that moment word showed up in that cheap
casket to the moment where you saw it
what was that time line I would say
probably no more than five minutes okay
because you just was unloaded onto the
to the dock and then brought in to them
in through the double doors and then
mork’s mmediately to the left as soon as
it came through the door from the inner
rooms and I saw the casket and that’s
when I that’s what I remember and the
reason I remember that is the fact is
that it was such a plain casket
you know and and that was that struck me
as being the president’s body would be
in a in a transport casket now this
entire time Jackie’s thinking the bodies
and ornate casket that she was driving
in that that’s the one that’s being
delivered I really owe my part that
would be conjecture or speculation got
it and I’m not comfortable with that
we’re getting into that let’s come back
to when the body came in when the body
first came in and you saw it did you
notice anything out of the ordinary
the body was was wrapped you know the
head was wrapped in sheets and the body
was wrapped separately in sheets the
body was taken out of the casket the
morgue had two tables we did the autopsy
on the table where I was the casket the
body was actually taken out between the
back table and he was on the floor and
it was put on the table in front of me
at that time dr. Boswell thanked
everybody in nestin relief and everyone
left the morgue then dr. Boswell left
and Paul and I were there we were told
not to unwrap the body and not to let
anyone in the morgue and about 15
minutes I say about 15 minutes later dr.
Boswell came back and we unwrapped about
the body we left a head wrapped and then
we spread a sheet over from the waist
down and then dr. Boswell handed me the
clipboard what we called a face sheet
it’s a form where you put all scars
wounds any surgical traumatic whatever
it’s basically a superficial description
of everything then before you go to the
body we were doing that as we were doing
that I was writing down what dr. Boswell
was just telling me it’s it was a little
unusual to be doing it that way it was
Jesus the other way around while we were
doing that just almost when we were
finished dr. Humes came in and he had a
he was followed by I believe three or
four military officers they were they
were flag great in other words they were
at
rules are our general got it the
officers went into the gallery dr. Humes
came to the table I’m not exactly sure
when dr. Fink came in he was there when
Humes unwrapped ahead that’s kind of con
kindig turi to what he says I mean we
just reported to his commanding officer
which he said he didn’t come in until
the brain the heart and the lungs were
out of the body when in dr. Humes he
unwrapped the head
he and and dr. Fink examined the head
and that in front of you oh yeah oh well
I’m saying the shoulder I’m standing
it’s the right shoulder of the president
looking down like that and at this point
how many autopsies have you done
yourself up to this point and how many
brains have you seen a lot of no we when
I started I you know it’s Marian August
we went immediately it’s Bethesda I
started doing and my duty I was a
student there I had classes and so forth
but every fourth night I had duty and we
would do two maybe three autopsies a
night so I really don’t know how many I
had done so you’ve seen a number of
different yeah I wound it brains you’ve
seen a different scenarios most of the
things that we did it at Bethesda were
actually patients from the hospital I
remember only probably one other trauma
that I remember is that a sailor had
night out and hit a concrete barrier
most of the others were people who had
died from that we had drownings from
Annapolis had you seen any other
shooting like had you done an autopsy
where there was a I know I had not got
it no so while you’re looking at Fink
and Humes doing what they’re doing what
would what did you notice did you see
anything different you know the
description of the head wound that is in
the autopsy report hesitate to use the
word spin but I think it’s a spin on
what what we really saw could you
elaborate please well it’s actually the
size of the wound
location of the wound I believe that the
measurement that’s in the autopsy report
actually is the measurement of the wound
not of the opening where the bone and
scalp was missing but actually was a
measurement of the total wound shown
after the scout was reflected in other
words the whole right side of the head
was malleable
you could actually just move it around
with your hands the skull was fractured
in multiple areas from would you mind if
we take out the brain yeah you kind of
showed to us what you would you mean by
the little bit more visual is that okay
with you
okay now the description of the wound is
not going to be this is not going to
give you a description of the of the
wound itself it’s only going to be the
skull the skull is going to give you a
description of the one this will will
give you an idea of what I saw the brain
looked like as opposed to the extensive
damage that was in the autopsy report
and this brain the brain that that I had
they this should be about
[Music]
the damage for this brain was basically
in this area here that’s what you saw
yeah okay there’s a portion of the brain
here that that was missing fully missing
yeah okay but it was it was less than a
third of the total brain less than a
third of the total brain or less than a
third of half the brain no the right
side no it’s less than a third of the
total brain okay was approximately the
area right here got it
okay that’s significant because in the
autopsy report they say that over half
of the total brain was was missing the
other thing in the autopsy report they
say that there was a deep laceration
that ran this way and was internally
down into the ventricles here and then
also in the ear had a description of it
penetrating into this area here now the
wound that I saw this is the occipital
area here in the parietal area here and
in the temporal area in here the wound
was here about approximately where my
finger is
and it’s extending down here it was
about three and a half inches long just
being the length about two inches wide
that was where the missing bone was and
the missing tissue was okay it wasn’t it
wasn’t exactly a square or round thing
the top of it of the wound was kind of
domed and it came down and kind of had a
little Te’o type thing that came back
down into here and then it kind of came
back up in this area now the strange
thing about it was at this top of the
wound here there was an incision in the
scallop they went approximately to the
coronal suture here I went a little bit
past here an incision an incision well I
saw right it was actually see why would
there be an
that’s a good question the scalp had you
know remember all of this all this this
portion in this area is fractured okay
to the sagittal suture which is this
suture all of this area was fractured
now but it was it wasn’t gone it was he
was still being kept intact by the by
the scalp scalp had rents and tears in
it and along this area it seemed like
that some of those tears in the scalp
had been surgically connected the little
connections to follow fracture line in
here okay and that extended to about
here okay you know that was the same
when when dr. Humes took the wrappings
off of the head there was a secondary
wrapping on it that I you know I think
was the towel but the scalp and and the
whole thing this was all all matted hair
and missing scalloped torn scalp fatty
tissue from underneath the scalp which
is all normal yeah which is all normal
okay it had kind of stuck to that
secondary layer so as he was taking it
off this Eric kind of gaped open but as
soon as we separated it from from the
towel
it went back together now that
significant rule and for the fact is
that you could actually if if you want
you to do that you could actually lay
this skull open you could actually take
your hands and separate it okay
so that would have given you access to
the brain which means which again
speculations short as that fact is that
that you would have had access you
possibly had access to the rain before
we received it in that in the morgue but
where would they that is that’s a
question that I would force one on the
drive that’s not enough time
well I don’t know there’s a lot of
theories there’s a lot of probabilities
last year I have friends that were in
school with me and and I visited one of
their friends in DC and just out of
curiosity william law and i we actually
went to visit think Oh Franco Lennox it
was given to the military and before
World War one it was under Walter Reed
Walter Reed was responsible for it they
used it for convalescence for world one
world war two patients and so forth so I
wanted to check out that because there
was an individual had speculated and he
said that surgery was done a clandestine
service surgery was done at this Glen
Cove annex and so we decided to see if
it was possible we drove to the complex
drove back to the back gate at Bethesda
he was eight minutes GPS the funeral
home that was involved in it was
scholar’s we actually time to distance
from Gaulish funeral home to Bethesda
which again was about eight minutes now
and recently we found that there may
have been another funeral home that was
involved in it Humphreys paw fries
supposedly had the contract with
Bethesda Naval Hospital at that time
understand I my command was not in the
Naval Hospital my command was the Naval
Medical School there there’s also a
possibility that the person Tom Robinson
who performed who actually prepared the
body along with a couple of other people
was not an employee of callers he was an
employee of Humphreys we haven’t been
able to confirm that I’ve tried in the
last three years to get in touch with
Tom Robinson
not been able to do that what will be
the difference if that was a case
well I read an interview of Tom with a
Swedish our Danish researcher Tom’s
description of the wounds and so forth
are similar to mine and almost opposite
of what’s in you know what what’s being
told in public and so forth the
exaggeration of the wounds when we
receive the body there were other other
things that were unusual the tracheotomy
that we were told it was a tracheotomy
in the throat very unusual even for an
emergency trach why is that well first
of all I never really seen a trach that
was done horizontally and I’ve never
seen a trach that was that large it also
had some ragged edges
dr. Perry said that he actually had done
that trach over a wound his description
of the trach wound that he did was was
what you normally would would expect but
if you did a trach there that was that
wide you wouldn’t you would probably
never do it because in that area you you
there would be a danger of damaging the
thyroid so you wouldn’t it wouldn’t be
even as an emergency trach you wouldn’t
want to create more damage and
especially in this situation when you
wouldn’t want to damage one of the
primary life supporting organs that and
the wound in the head the only other
wound that I actually saw was the one in
the back and it was it was in the upper
back at the upper border of the scapula
but this is that’s the wound that that
was on the only head itself the wound
wasn’t obvious as to the extent of it
and the margins and so forth until the
scalp was actually reflected back from
him and when the Scout was reflected
back
some of the bone that was here to scalp
had fallen off of it made it look larger
than it really was
and I think that’s the measurement that
send the official autopsy so when you
saw the brain cuz you know the
conspiracy is it’s not just one bullet
the magic bullet whatever you want to
call it and there’s shots from the front
not just from the back it’s not just
Oswald and by the way no one’s saying
Oswald didn’t shoot and he wasn’t one of
the shooters they’re just saying that
there may be somebody from the front as
well that shot there’s six or seven
shots what’s your thoughts on that from
what you saw if in fact Oswald did shoot
from the depository the wound that was
in the back that I saw was not a fatal
one the wound I saw in the right temple
and that couldn’t have been Oswald no no
he couldn’t it would have had to have
come from from actually the right front
look I mean you’re certain about that
I’m yeah I saw the wound dr. Humes and
dr. Fink found the wound you examined
this whole area of the back yes sir
were there any other wounds except one
at the base of the neck and one up in
the spill no sir that we’re not about
the head wound sir there was only one it
was the only one entrance wound in the
head yes sir
now can you be absolutely certain that
the wound you described as the entry
wound was in fact that yes indeed we can
so let me let me ask you this when you
see everybody on TV every news everybody
from TV Senate’s from back at that
moment when this happened you’re there
in the room every conversation go to
dinner or lunch friend people co-workers
how are you holding yourself back from
saying they’re lying that’s not the case
I guess it goes back to the same same
credibility you didn’t think that would
believe you’ve got anything right how do
I really don’t want to be critical but
there are some really fine
researchers out there a they’ve done a
fantastic job
and have dedicated most of their life to
them they don’t readily accept the
possibility that that they could be
incorrect everything that is new or
contradictory to their theories so forth
is automatically rejected I would be I
you know I would be more than willing to
participate in a objective legal inquiry
where where you would be able to you
know someone who’s objected not and I’m
not talking about a group of physicians
they were to review the evidence and
that type of session I’m talking about a
true law-enforcement objective
investigation into a murder why do you
think it hasn’t been done yet though
well I’m not sure that it can be done
why do you say that I think the
assassination of Oswald eliminated that
possibility and I think it was they
wanted to keep and this is all my
opinion okay I’m not I have no inside
information anything I think they wanted
they wanted to keep it within the realm
of control of the government you know
how sometimes when me and my wife go and
let’s just say a name comes up that’s
her father’s name and her father passed
I say are you thinking about your dad or
you know how you go some places and for
me something comes up about Iran and
home Amy and the Shah she asks hey are
you okay I’m sure JFK came up many times
was there ever like babe what do you
think about this
Jim you okay was it all buried those
moments or she just respected and says
look if you don’t want me to go there
I’m not gonna go there well actually
since I started writing a book she’s
become more involved it’s important to
know you’ve been you guys been married
for 55 years and three months you got
married August of 63 which was three
years before the assassination so you’re
selling I see it was actually August
before this
the August before tea sends annexed yeah
that’s what I was referencing always so
55 years you’ve been married 55 years
you’ve been married this is maybe going
a little bit deeper myself and I’m just
curious to know what do you think about
it what what is your opinion on Humes
yourself do you have an opinion on Humes
I think in Humes and Boswell and Fink
they were good people but one of the
things that that everybody seems to to
negate is the fact is that they were
military they were in knew in the Navy
they were all career officers they were
getting close to their retirement my
feeling is that they were given a
scenario and they were directed to
actually support that through all the
autopsy findings now I don’t think that
set well with dr. Humes
he really wasn’t that kind of an
individual but he had no alternative and
that’s one of the reasons I say that the
autopsy a lot of the autopsy report is a
spin on what we actually saw the
measurement wounds
13 centimeters that’s almost 5 inches
that’s it’s almost inch and a half over
what what I actually saw now as a Cavett
Cavett to that I would like to say you
know I didn’t measure them but he did
well well what I think he used and then
dr. Boswell actually said and his his
notes that it was 19 centimeters and I
think what they did was that the
measurement was taken after the scalp
was retracted some of the bone it
separates from the scalp and have fallen
in so it had increased the size of the
wound that was actually missing where
just seemed to be bone was missing would
they being ordered oh yes I’m sure
all the way from the top oh I’m sure so
then send what’s your opinion on Lyndon
not very well I figured that was the
entire question I wanted to ask you
today I was in San Antonio and I lived
in San Antonio and Lyndon Johnson and
San Antonio are in Texas was I guess you
could say a good old boy politically he
was supported he’s not someone that you
even want to invite to dinner you know
it’s amazing I’m reading a book right
now I just finished a good friend of
mine wrote Robert Greene and he talks
about Lyndon Johnson heavily yeah and he
talks about how ambitious he was to the
point where he was willing to do
anything at all cost to make it to the
next level in his career and how coming
up for him he would go against Hubert
Humphrey you know the Triple H Ebert
Humphrey and then he had this one mentor
of his Russell that kind of calmed them
down and he tried to keep his motivation
in it and when you read about him
there’s a little bit of animosity as
towards JFK and amount of la viga
because a lot of a lot of animosity
because he was never a great orator and
he was never loved like JFK was loved
and he was way more ambitious it was way
more important for him to become a
president in JFK because in JFK’s family
his older brother was supposed to be
President Joseph’s right and you know
this because if you read history the
older brother was a war he died as a
pilot and his father was depressed for
several years and so when you read this
the part as I get deeper into this a lot
of things make sense you know when when
you when you tie it up a lot of things
make sense do you think a part of the
investigation that is to be done do you
think there needs to be him involved in
it as well or no you’re thinking more
specifically from researchers because I
think a part of this is also to see two
things one you know the six soldiers
that saw the casket coming in early
right you knew there was a couple a
force a couple a fives and an e6 that
later on became a lieutenant so either
they’re lying which why would they
they’re not be monetized why would they
say that they didn’t see it and then the
other side is you know why wouldn’t they
tell the truth and then the opposite
side is what is the motive behind
wanting to take the front bullet wounds
out
would be the motive so would you say
Lyndon Johnson would need to be a little
bit investigated to see there was a
motivation there a small I I would say I
guess I can answer that with a question
who were the two people in the
government it’s a time that benefited
the most him and Hoover that’s right is
that the right answer
yeah I just got the chills all over my
body yeah it goes deeper than that by
the way because you have to go like five
steps prior to him and Hoover on why
Hoover so the story goes back of
Kennedy’s running I’m gonna go a whole
different angle here and and and I’m
curious to know where you’re gonna say
here Kennedy’s running and Kennedy’s
having a hard time with Illinois and
there’s a mayor Cook County who helps
with the seven to eight thousand people
this is some conspiracy who were dead
but he helps and that mayor who one one
because if Chicago mob boss apparently
helped him out and the mayor’s son who
has became a late mayor later on they
asked them was a mob ever involved in
helping you so then you go to Chicago
right and Chicago you go to the mob
that’s trying to get JFK to become
president after JFK’s up winning he
didn’t need Illinois but he ended up
winning illinois’s well he won
single-handedly over Nixon
okay so then that happens and when that
happened the mob always had Hoover not
say that there’s the mob there’s no such
thing as the mob and Hoover never said
it
Jed guven ever said it but because the
mob had some insider information on
Hoover that Hoover didn’t want to become
public and I think you may know what
some of those things may be at that time
it was a big deal and so when this whole
thing is taken place
Linden’s extremely ambitious on what he
wants to be fastest way to become a you
know they say the fastest way to become
a millionaires to marry one and the
fastest way to become a president is to
be a vice president who eliminates a
president now again this is all stuff
that I read and I research and then you
find out why he waited by the plane
Air Force One you know why
years later when Jackie did a recording
that the tapes was earned they found and
he looked at Jackie Kennedy’s recording
why did she say Lyndon was a very
dangerous man she always feared him
because she always felt like he wanted
to do something to to John and so when
you put all these pieces of puzzle
together and why when the Commission
came out is it the Warren Commission
when it came out why would he say 75
years seal why not 30 years because
that’s the typical number why would we
do 75 year old enlisted would be dead so
no one would be able to investigate
these guys all these things are little
bit too much for someone to say there’s
something here we’re dealing with you
know and you know even after the House
Select Committee my deposition and
Paul’s deposition was sealed again for
another 50 years and it was only
released because of the record review
board there’s so much involved in this
and one of the things that I’ve tried
not to do is to speculate now at the end
of the book I a little bit I do yeah and
and you know I’ve had people say well
you know and and and I guess I have to
defend I guess I have to defend the
doctors if you were looking at a
retirement and you had a family you’d
spend all your life you know in one
organization one company or something of
that nature and something came in
threaten your retirement and your
pension and even possibility of jail
time and you were told well you really
don’t have to lie about it but you have
to adjust it what you know what you know
to fit this yeah well you told that I
was and I was just I mean I was too low
on the
totem poles Howard Hughes Boswell and
they may have been because a retirement
so they had to make the right decisions
for their families because the 25-30
years is on the line sure I mean they
were they were all I think they were
thirty-year people and third year people
you know what happens with them you know
what I wouldn’t mind doing why don’t you
and I take a break and why don’t we go
to the Dealey Plaza and kind of see that
and then come back and finish the
interview if you don’t mind because it’s
based on what we’re talking about here
I’d like to see what you think the other
angle would be if they was shot where
would are we coming from if you don’t
mind taking a break and going to the
Dealey Plaza
so that’s the X right there so Jim if
that’s the eggs and the shot from Oswald
came from there and you’re looking at
the brain we would have to assume the
other shot that you saw in the front
would come from where if we’re standing
there probably right there somewhere
around there because actually the shot
was in the temple exited here temple hit
the temple of God right
a little bit above and in front of the
year right in the hairline that’s that’s
was the first and then it exited back
here and that’s why he kind of shook
back and he won back yeah and say the
thing about it is that the wound that
they mentioned in the autopsy and so
forth in the back of the head is missing
I never saw that you never saw that no I
should have seen him because I handle
the body for the x-ray actually placed
the film cassettes for Custer what is
this – for your own level of curiosity
being here does it do anything for you
not really I I mean I always wanted to
come down it’s it’s a lot smaller than I
I see oh yeah that’s right it’s a place
now people all over the world come here
to see the sex there’s a throat wound
probably with it come from right over
the bridge probably right right off of
the railroad or it could have come from
individuals see where those people are
standing this group or the ones in the
back yes to where the guy is to begin it
could have come from there in one of the
photographs in the book the neck wound
you can see in the right side of the
neck one where there’s a ragged area top
if you look closely
you’ll also see that there is a a Ridge
or tunnel under the skin that goes up
with so what was that the are you saying
that’s another bullet I think that’s
probably the one that dr. Perry
described I think it was removed because
see the one in the back never penetrated
the pleural cavity and humans could
actually probe it with his little finger
but there was no room there was no boy
later you said he went in what a an inch
an inch and a half with his finger
little finger with his middle with his
pinkie was a little bit yeah huge that
huge mean but he did it actually in
never penetrated the chest cavity
AutoCAD apparently did make a bruise on
the wrong because hummin on the backside
of the middle lobe of the right long
just to call the middle lobe on the
first load there was kind of a reddish
spot there that we saw they moved it up
to the top of the line he also moves the
wound in the back from the area where it
was to the neck wound and all of that
was the support to single Bullet theory
so let me ask you can you put a number
two how many bullets you think there was
shot or know just what you saw with the
brain you wouldn’t be able to know that
tell you when I left the mortgage like I
saw at least two wounds that I thought
that you were one I wasn’t aware of the
neck wound because we had been told it
was a it was an emergency trach and
believe it alone got it and that was
those were there only two wounds that’s
all I never saw the supposedly entry
wound in the back of the head and in
reality if there had been an entry wound
they’re where they located it would have
been within the big wound in the back of
the head where all the stuff was missing
it would have had to have been either on
the margin of it or whatever and I
didn’t see that and then the pictures of
the face show honestly I believe that
was that was government in this
information it’s inconceivable for me
that that Fox would have had possession
world they’ve been so tight on
everything else
everything’s been just totally locked
away in all of the real evidence that
was given to Robert Kennedy and
apparently he disposed of it yeah
there’s just too many questions well so
you’re saying there’s nothing really can
happen for there to be an open
investigation now right I don’t think
that the government will allow it
because they there’s so much stuff that
they still have sequestered they won’t
release and what we were hoping Trump
wouldn’t be involved in all of this to
the point and he was released it but and
he did he released a lot of it but the
thing about it is it wasn’t submitted so
it wasn’t significant stuff it was not
it had nothing to do really with the
autopsy what’s the biggest worry with it
as though what is the worry and the
concern that if comes out that it was an
inside job it’s going to show the rest
of the world a level of instability you
know a level of unstable government
internally I don’t think that that’s the
case you know when the founding fathers
established the country they didn’t
establish the House of Lords now we have
a House of Lords which is Congress so I
think it’s it’s a see why I cya you mean
yeah neither cosa I believe that yeah I
believe it to investigate a Attorney
General or Assistant Attorney General
they subpoena me he just ignores it how
is that possible without repercussions
of course Johnson said it was because
the people couldn’t handle the right
information are those what really
happened I think it’s to go further but
that’s again – that’s my that’s my take
on that speculation of course and which
you notice with him he was loved around
the world you know a lot of countries
around the world started museums on
behalf of his name because of the level
of admiration that for us I think that’s
probably why there’s such a high level
of wanting to know exactly what happened
what was the motivation behind it well I
think that he was one of the first
people in a long series of presidents
that actually was beginning to look at
the people as people power of who’s in
charge where the Republican Democrat yep
army or you yep no and that’s that’s all
is I saw politics in this country as we
go power they buy them they buy it’s
easy to buy in nowadays it’s a money
game and you wonder you you go and see
who can be bought and who can’t be
bought and you know the voters sitting
there saying I like this guy but it’s
not as much as you like in the voter
there’s too much of that
like you said corporations are coming in
and are able to buy votes and whether
they want to do something that has to do
with regulation or making it difficult
for their competitors to do something
they’re not looking at the political
side they’re looking at more regulations
that’s going to hurt competition let me
ask you did you ever did you spend a lot
of time study in Oswald or not really
his background you know him wanting to
be a Russian citizen and all that stuff
or no I really don’t know you know
people ask you do you do I think he he
killed Kennedy yeah well that’s actually
not a climbing to stay off question
because if he’s shot at Kennedy and he
shot from behind Kennedy then what he
did he was he was apparently responsible
for the back room which was hospital and
would not have been available you’re
certain of that that it wouldn’t been
fatal you know and you saw that back
wound yeah what would have been worst
case with that they would have done
surgery and he would have recovered oh
no I they probably would have just
removed the bullet and closed it I mean
it wasn’t destructive in any sense that
it hit a vital organ or it even broke a
rib the whole information the whole
report that are out there
the autopsy report that’s that point
they don’t make sense from a medical
standpoint from an anatomical standpoint
they just don’t make sense it’s almost
like they’ve been manipulated or spun
the real information is to lead someone
to conclusion is not the truth is there
anybody out there that is coming from
the right place morals values character
integrity that is extremely motivated to
one investigate this and want to do
something about is there someone you
know that’s out there wanted to get
deeper in this topic or now if this is
ever going to have a legal solution and
so forth it’s going to have to come
through the government and because
they’re the only one who can release the
evidence what evidence is still there
and see we still don’t know you know I’m
not allowed to see photographs that I
was there when it that’s amazing that
amazes me I’m not allowed to see the
x-rays that I took pardon how is that
even possible that amazes me or any of
those guys the enlisted guys even Dennis
or O’Connor or any of them still in
contact with you are they still around
Humes Boswell or any of them still
around and that’s what Lyndon wanted
because he knew once everybody was gone
there’s nothing that’s gonna come back
Trent
Wow that’s right and what year was the
fifty years put on you oh it was
seventy-five seventy-five to 20 25
that’s amazing and by the way they
measured it they said you know is this
one of the things about Oswald is how
long the distance was they said they
brought 12 marksmen to test shooting it
while a target is movement 12 out of 12
they all hit the target so it said it’s
not a target that really needs somehow
to be a you know sniper to be able to
hit it it wasn’t that difficult of a
target to hit but also of himself is an
interesting character and Ruby died as
well two years later so he’s not even
around for some other to be investigate
and say what do you connected to as a
local nightclub owner or a restaurant
owner well you know my opinion if Oswald
had lived they would have had
if the administration did reach out you
to want to go deeper on this would there
be an interest on on your line or no
sure but I only have the information
that I have
there’s always an interest with this so
maybe if the right person sees this
message they’re able to reach out and
billions of people this is not millions
billions that people would like to know
what happened here there’s too many
unknowns that are not fully answered yet
and there’s too many signs from credible
sources that makes you question things
well I agree also I’d like to know who
what where and why I don’t think in my
lifetime I’ll ever know but it would be
you know it’ll be something I really
would like well you never know you never
know what happens that the part about
you is from me on why I wanted to do
this because bill contacted me says Pat
you know let’s try to see if we can do
something with you and Jim I’m in a
business of reading people because
that’s what I do for a living I run a
business I’m supposed to see who I’m
doing business with and what I do for a
living there’s nothing about you with a
motive to monetize and use this as a
platform to make a multi-million dollar
contract book any that you come across
as somebody that you’re just trying to
get to the bottom of it and investigate
it because there’s some unknowns and
50-plus years later you’ve agreed to
kind of talk about it a little bit more
than before and so I don’t I think
there’s something there the purpose of
the book is to get the information out
there you know I guess it has to do with
my own mortality
it’s just absolutely unconscionable that
what’s being taught in schools now it’s
not true but it’s accepted as part of
history someone once said that history
is written by the winner and we
definitely lost here the other one
whoever controls the present controls
the past some see whoever controls the
present controls the future of a history
it says a lot well this was great to
kind of see the perspective of something
was to happen which angle would have
come from without being able to stand
out there
it would be impossible but I can I can
tell you the angle from the wound in the
back it actually went down at about 30
45 degree angles like oh like abyss yeah
from the front
no what’s he like this one he got shot
or was he straight with because he was
he was going like this and then he got
shaky he got shot first in the throat
that’s what his hands came up but he did
was hand came up he went down like this
and then he went back like this and this
and you can see the tissue stuff and
people say oh well half his brain was
blown out they don’t understand that a
brain that’s a very delicate type see
once it’s protected by them in energy
even in the skull there would have been
a lot of Nicola fication a lot of liquid
there they were cause of the pressure of
the bullet as the bullet energy created
personal opinion
and he fractured all of the sides and
then we’re excellent it blew the loan
out but as it passed through and created
pressure
seen demonstration completely shooting
watermelon yes yes we just have we just
shot that’s interesting we were we were
at a place called drive tanks two weeks
ago and I was on a tank when you’re
shooting stuff up and I was shooting at
watermelons and a few pumpkins and I
shot the pumpkin and the front is just a
hole but the back is a blast right and
the gentleman comes up and he says the
best things and says this the front this
is the back this the front this tabac he
says if you want to know exactly what
this means it’s what happened with JFK
so look if you’re somebody who follows
history I’m sure you were fascinated by
what we just saw here at the Dealey
Plaza I am myself as somebody who was in
the military but you know what I’d like
to do if you don’t mind
Jim is obviously we’re at the end here
and the book that you wrote would
William Law at the cold-shoulder of
history why don’t you take a minute and
tell us a little bit about what I’m
going to get as a read if I read this
book I think you’ll get a different
perspective on the whole JFK
assassination these are my memories of
what I actually participated in
concerning the brain dr. Boswell and I
did did the body proper and what I
observed from dr. Humes and and dr.
Fink’s examination of the head we
actually took three sets of x-rays I
actually helped Gerald Custer who was
the x-ray tech placed the cassettes and
moved the body and so forth for the
first set of x-rays he took him and when
he came back he brought an assistant
with him
I think it’ll it’ll give the reader some
thought but it also is going to require
the reader to make some judgments on its
own it’s gonna make you go and say
really let me go look it up no way and
let me go google it which i think it’s
great but that’s you saying that’s a
great thing
yeah that’s the purpose and I think that
book does that if you’re interested in
that topic you your parents your kids
anybody I’ll go get the book gifted for
somebody click on the link below to go
buy the book and if you haven’t watched
the interview I did with Clint Hill it
was an interview done about two years
ago
so click on a link over here are we
gonna put the link for the interviews
while down here a Clint Hill I suggest
you go watch that as well with that
being said Jim thank you so much for
coming out truly thank you for your time
and thanks thank you for your courage
for wanting to open up and tell the
story and as well as your service [Music]
fatal one I did help John Kennedy’s
brain yes well I assume it was john f
kennedy’s brain when the body first came
in and you sod did you notice anything
out of the ordinary there’s a portion of
the brain here that was missing there
was an incision in the scalp
why would there be an incision that’s a
good question throat one probably would
have come from over the bridge probably
right right off of the railroad what’s
who was it two people that benefited the
most him in soloq if the topic of JFK
assassination intrigues you you’re gonna
love today’s interview here’s why
obviously I’ve had other people on value
tenman before with Clint Hill who was a
former Secret Service agent he was the
first agent that jumped on the car when
John F Kennedy was shot we’ve also had
Abraham Bowden who was the first African
American Secret Service agent but today
we go complete different angle today I
wanted to sit down with somebody this is
very rare because it’s been 55 years
since the event the assassination
November 22nd 1963 when the autopsy
happened there were four people in the
room who did the autopsy he is one of
them and during the autopsy three people
held the brain this is what we have the
brain here he held the brain he was one
of them and he saw some stuff that’s
gonna surprise you and we’re time as
somebody that witnessed what he saw in
the brain that’s different than maybe
what you’ve read about and so we’re
gonna take a deep deep dive today on
what happened from the moment the body
was announced dead to the delivery to
Air Force One from there to protest that
the casket go with Jackie did it go with
somebody else what happened there all I
can tell you is I’m gonna ask one
question during this interview that I’m
so curious with the answer and we’re
gonna see what Jim Jenkins gonna tell us
today in this interview with that being
said Jim thank you so much for coming
down and being willing to open up and
talk about this topic with us thank you
for inviting your document it all over
the place if you go read any the you
know the autopsies any of the reports
whether it’s the Warren Commission
whatever the reports you read your
document or there are somebody that was
a part of it but you’ve not wanted to
come out and talk a lot about it now
obviously William a friend of yours who
decided to write a book with you kind of
maybe persuaded you to say this is a
story we need to go tell are you willing
to do it but first I want to thank you
secondly is that want to kind of a get
some thoughts from you on what caused
you not want to talk about it all this
year all these years and why now are you
a little bit more
I have to answer the people who asked me
and it’s like you know if I had told you
when I was in graduate school that I did
the autopsy
you know JFK would you ever believe me
and that’s kind of the way that I look
at it it was a part of it the fact that
you didn’t think people would believe
you if you told them that because if we
were friends let’s just say I’m your
friend and I’m your best man at your
wedding well you’re my best man at my
wedding and you told me something like
that like oh my gosh Jim that’s crazy to
really tell me about it I’d want to know
more as a friend on what you did you
seem like a private guy he seemed like a
simple man you don’t seem like a you
know he seemed like you just wanted
you’ve been married since August of 63
was there also part of it we just didn’t
want people to have a certain level of
intrusion on your personal life I think
a lot of it was that okay there’s a lot
of memories that I have in that book
that are specific but there are other
things in the book that I remember that
I’ve tried to you know try to tie in
some of the events when I first began
this book I was going to read and and I
have all kinds of books have a bookcase
the books that people have sent me over
the years I haven’t read them I’m from
Iran so it’s born in Iran I saw the war
I saw people dying I saw things that
happened that maybe you don’t
necessarily want to experience I saw
something weird scenes in my left with
ten thousand men flagellating their
backs on the streets and there’s a
streak of blood I mean I was eight years
old and I saw that that’s not something
I want to see again right
was this one of those things where you
said man this was so traumatic on me
that I don’t ever want to revisit it or
was it the fact that you were just doing
your job you have a lack of interest on
the topic like honestly you know it just
so happened I accidentally was chosen to
be a part of this I didn’t choose to be
a part of this I was just doing my job
which one would you say was more I think
the latter okay god I this is not a you
know it’s not a highlight of my life it
hasn’t affected my life at all but I
think that’s because I really you’re not
participated in it what’s the reasoning
though Paul O’Connor was the other core
woman right by the way just to say when
you say the other core mean the other
core man who was part of the RIT they
were too I was
only two of us Pauline George’s you know
being involved and that type of thing
I had other goals in my life most of the
participation that I have done was at
the encouragement of Paul Paul would
call me and say well you know this
individual once wants to interview you I
would be hissing about and he said well
if hall would tell me well he’s a good
guy
but it was it was a reluctance somewhat
hard you know I didn’t want to get
involved in all of what was going on is
this after the two gentlemen who were
kind of hostile to you with the HSC a
committee that they interviewed you even
after that you were open to it or after
he like I’m not doing any interviews
well the interview was interesting I was
in graduate school at that time I was in
my office and I got a call from a lady
and she told me that these two
individuals Kelly and Purdy were going
to show up at my house on such-and-such
state is such a such time and they were
going to talk to me about my
participation and in the autopsy I said
no you’re not I said you’re not going to
come to my house I don’t know you you’re
strangers so then she told me that this
was a congress mandated Commission and
that I was compelled to do this or they
would subpoena me at that time I was at
Jackson Mississippi and in the medical
school there and so I went to my local
congressman one of his aides checked to
make sure that this was legitimate and
he suggested that I meet in his office
so I met Purdy and Kelly in his office
it wasn’t an amiable type situation they
had told me that that Ferdie and Kelly
were actually lawyers for the House
Select Committee anyway they were going
to come in to take a deposition
well when the secretary for a
congressman checks their credentials we
found out that indeed Purdy was an
attorney the Kelly was an FBI agent what
were they trying to get from you though
I mean what did they would they
conspiracy a conspiratorial did trying
to they basically were looking for
confirmation of the Warren Commission
findings they wanted me to
firm that the magic bullet was yeah yeah
and in a single Bullet theory was
correct and they never really asked me
you know basically what I did what I saw
or what I participated in and every time
I would they were they were always
saying well that King possibly happened
because of this this and this they say
well you know I don’t know another
witnesses said this there are there was
only the doctors and Paul so I knew that
you know what they were saying came from
from one of those individuals and this
one you knew that in a moment based on
the question because see I until Paul
called me in and talked to me about this
interview they were are this deposition
I really never discussed the autopsy
with Paul and so wait a minute so after
the autopsy you and Paul didn’t have a
debrief you guys didn’t talk about it
and nothing ever I don’t know no because
we were given orders you know we were
given orders by the Secretary of the
Navy and also by Department of Defense
not to discuss him so so the only reason
you were open to the House Committee
coming to you is because it’s coming
from Congress well that it wasn’t Plus
that was the first time they rescinded
the orders got it we they sent us
letters for sending Miller’s when they
interviewed you did did you get a
feeling that they were for what the
Warren Commission came out and they
results that’s what they said Oh were
they against it to try to get conspiracy
were they kind of trying to get the
check mark from you to say that he also
agrees that what they said in the Warren
Commission is accurate I said I believe
that’s I mean that was my my feeling did
you watch JFK movies did you watch the
you know did you watch anything so you
do know till today you don’t you don’t
watch or follow any of this you’ve never
been to the Dealey Plaza before no for
55 years you have fully disconnected
that part of your life to not have to be
tied to it I was actually surprised
about
no interest that people had in this
after the 50 years we were surprised by
them oh yes why would you be surprised
by its a president that was assassinated
was well I mean the assassination and to
me in such an enigma and it’s never had
a legal conclusion the conclusion has
always been political would you want to
see a legal conclude yes I’d like to see
usually participate in a legal yes oh so
you would be yeah so you so it’s not the
fact that you’re just trying to set it
aside and not do anything with it so you
would be you would like to see like you
know what I think was 1995 when they
came out with the AR RB when they came
out and they wanted to reinvestigate and
find out what’s going on and they went
through certain things you would want to
see somebody else open it up again to go
through an investigation to find out
what happened a legal investigation I
know not political the investigation but
everything even even the record Review
Board which is what you’re speaking of
it had restrictions when the Clark
Commission was there all of the people
appointed to the Commission had ties to
the government they had obligations to
the government the pathologist’s that
reviewed the case and so forth are the
doctors I’m not sure although more
pathologists but they had ties to
doctors they had grants they were
participating in federal projects and
that type of stuff and the one step
probably would have been more objective
certainly people like dr. Sarawak after
the House Select they were they were
kind of excluded they were all pushed
away so there’s never in my in my mind
in my opinion there’s never been a real
objective committee or anything that’s
delved into this why do you think why is
it because if we found that we would all
be well I think that we that that gets
into some things and and I’m only
judging and I can only judge by the
autopsy in and there
more people out there that know more
about anything outside that more than I
do
but I it just doesn’t make sense
that what we saw at the morgue what we
did it to more and what I participate in
like the brain you know there were two
FBI agents that said there was no brain
Paul said there was no brain but yet dr.
Humes took a brain out of the cranium
handed it to dr. Boswell and dr. Boswell
and I went over and I knelt down and he
gave me to the brain I turned it upside
down put it in the sling you did I did
help John Kennedy’s brain yes well I
assume it was john f kennedy’s brother
that’s one other part right so right and
what you know is the book describes and
in that I don’t know if you I’ve been
asked many times is it was it john f
kennedy’s brain do you think it was I
haven’t I really don’t have any any way
of knowing and neither does anyone else
unless somebody who who really
participated in in you know covering up
some parts of the assassination can come
forth and say now I’m also personal
mistake in that since there’s so much
stuff that’s come out that if I relate
it back to what I saw and so forth
there’s always a question about it it
sounds like you believe it’s important
for us to know the truth on what
happened but you also believe that if
it’s a government investigation being
done whoever’s involved on the inside if
it’s only the government controlling and
not on the other side we’re only gonna
get the answer from somebody’s on the
inside well for instance I’ve worked
with a friend of mine who’s a
neurologist I’ve tried to be allowed to
go into the archives and review the
photographs and any evidence that they
have there I’ve been denied but yet he
he was allowed in and to see the x-rays
and so forth
now those x-rays I
fade-in I actually helped position of
the body and so forth and when the first
set of x-rays that we did I remember the
first photographs went ahead was first
unwrapped they took photographs all
during the autopsy and I was busy so I
really wasn’t paying much attention to
that but there’s a photographs from the
Fox photographs they’re strange but let
me ask you this because you said you
didn’t have interest but why were you
asking to money to get the photographs
it was there a moment where you kind of
felt obligated to want to find out again
some answers because well it sounds like
there’s a little bit of conflicted the
willingness the desire and also at the
same time wanted to stay away three
years ago I committed to this to writing
this book and all of this has occurred
within that time frame so you asked for
the photographs on the last three years
oh yeah so your desire to want to go
deeper on this is the last three years
well I have talked to you like said the
friend of mine the neurologist and he
and I have discussed what he saw in the
archives and what I remember seeing or
what I actually participated in and
remember seeing we’ve come to some
conclusions but not really things that I
would consider to be emphatically true
okay as far as participating in this
three years ago when I when I finally
agreed to do this if William wood would
furnish because I I’m basically finding
in medicine and science and I’m not a
journalist or a writer and he agreed to
help with you then his first suggestion
was that I need to start reading the
material I started a couple of books but
then I began to realize that if I read
all of this material then I may have a
little brain melt you know and it might
come in because you know 50-year old
memories are difficult enough to begin
with so I stopped doing that and then I
began to talk to the people that I knew
we’re at Bethesda not necessarily in the
morgue
we’re at Bethesda and then I I was
fortunate enough to be able to talk to
the honor guard people gentleman named
Dennis David who was in charge of a
detail that actually he was an e6 who
became an officer later on I’m you sir
for we love and yours I think right yeah
what did he tell you when you spoke to
him well he he and I talked about the
unloading of the body from from the
black hearse Dennis gave me more of a
time frame than anything else because I
was in the morgue actually from about
3:30 in the afternoon to about 8 9
o’clock the next morning
you knew the body was coming we were
told about he was coming yes
would you mind us going through the
timeline of what happened from the
moment they found out he’s dead
to the moments because that’s where
that’s where the challenges with this
story right I mean you write autopsies
I’ve been challenged for me when I look
at it I’m a numbers guy so first they
find out he’s dead boom checkmark then
they say let’s put his body they wrap
him up in a nice they put him in a
really nice casket they take him to Air
Force One that’s number two Lyndon
Johnson’s waiting there rather than
going back to DC to have the body being
delivered to the plane which is kind of
a little bit wild for that gets to Air
Force One then they fly back to Bethesda
DC they land they take that nice casket
and they put it in the automobile that
Jackie Kennedy is writing you to go to
where you’re at the morgue they arrived
actually at 7:30 but the body doesn’t
come in to 717 and the body doesn’t come
in till 8:00 and the challenge that I’m
seeing there is another automobile
delivers cascade that’s used for Vietnam
veterans back in the days just to gb
type of casket that apparently they took
John F Kennedy and they put him in a
body bag and they put him there and that
was brought to you guys at around 6:00
at 6:30 there’s an hour and a half
before 8 o’clock so that’s the part
that’s completely cure see and again – I
really don’t have any insight into that
either but reports are at the boys young
report and yeah all of that
him and Dennis David’s timing and seeing
this I had to have a timeline for this
as I was writing it I had no personal
timeline because you know all I saw was
the body being brought in in what I
consider to be a shipping casket that
was striking in the fact is that it was
the president’s body in that in that
such a ordinarily you saw that yes yes
you saw the shipping cast yes I did and
that’s not typical protocol to put a
president under shipping casket I
wouldn’t think so
you witnessed at yours yes I saw
checkmark in that time well you saw that
part yeah the casket came in and it was
brought in by by people they were in
business suits mmm and they may have
been a couple of military officers with
it but they were brought it was brought
in and it was brought into the morgue
proper sat down on the floor Paul helped
them take the body out and they put the
body on the table in front of me now
I’ve you I’m used to Dennis Davis
timeline and I use it because sergeant
Morgan’s action report stated 635
several years ago we talked to an
individual his name and was well he was
dr. J Scott I believe and he’s told us
that he was the officer of the day for
the Vitesse a hospital during the
conversation was with william law
William asked him what time the body
came in and he immediately said 6:30 so
I took sergeant Boren and dr. Scott as
collaboration for the time that Dennis
quoted and then I used that time as a
lie as a timeline for the autopsy at
that point in time I had memories but I
I wasn’t quite sure of sequencing of
them and then over the three years that
I’ve been writing this book I basically
just write sections and
certain things and so forth and then
each section would begin to support RS
or create questions about that
particular memory the timeline that I
use like I said as his Dennis’s that
timeline gave me the ability to say the
body was here at 6:30 when when the body
was put on the table
everybody was asked to leave the body
was still it was on the table it’s still
wrapped in the sheets had anybody was
separate and then dr. Boswell left the
morgue for I don’t know 15 20 minutes
maybe
and I just assumed he was going back up
to the laboratory to you know talk to
dr. Humes and while the bodies in front
of you yeah the body is in the morgue
and the morgue what Paul and I this is
what time I assumed that had to be
somewhere between 6:30 and 7:00 o’clock
if I say it took him approximately 10
minutes to unload the body from the
Hurst and bring it to do that because
see Dennis in his his group or his his
crew they did not bring him into the
morgue they brought it to the morgue
door according to Dennis and then
someone back yeah and somebody took you
from there the morgue was set up where
there was little any room that had Coll
boxes where we put the bodies to me and
then then it came into the morgue proper
so let me ask you from the moment it was
delivered to the morgue from the back
not the one with Jackie Kennedy had a
right around 7:30 to 8:00 o’clock I’m
talking to one that arrived early from
that moment word showed up in that cheap
casket to the moment where you saw it
what was that time line I would say
probably no more than five minutes okay
because you just was unloaded onto the
to the dock and then brought in to them
in through the double doors and then
mork’s mmediately to the left as soon as
it came through the door from the inner
rooms and I saw the casket and that’s
when I that’s what I remember and the
reason I remember that is the fact is
that it was such a plain casket
you know and and that was that struck me
as being the president’s body would be
in a in a transport casket now this
entire time Jackie’s thinking the bodies
and ornate casket that she was driving
in that that’s the one that’s being
delivered I really owe my part that
would be conjecture or speculation got
it and I’m not comfortable with that
we’re getting into that let’s come back
to when the body came in when the body
first came in and you saw it did you
notice anything out of the ordinary
the body was was wrapped you know the
head was wrapped in sheets and the body
was wrapped separately in sheets the
body was taken out of the casket the
morgue had two tables we did the autopsy
on the table where I was the casket the
body was actually taken out between the
back table and he was on the floor and
it was put on the table in front of me
at that time dr. Boswell thanked
everybody in nestin relief and everyone
left the morgue then dr. Boswell left
and Paul and I were there we were told
not to unwrap the body and not to let
anyone in the morgue and about 15
minutes I say about 15 minutes later dr.
Boswell came back and we unwrapped about
the body we left a head wrapped and then
we spread a sheet over from the waist
down and then dr. Boswell handed me the
clipboard what we called a face sheet
it’s a form where you put all scars
wounds any surgical traumatic whatever
it’s basically a superficial description
of everything then before you go to the
body we were doing that as we were doing
that I was writing down what dr. Boswell
was just telling me it’s it was a little
unusual to be doing it that way it was
Jesus the other way around while we were
doing that just almost when we were
finished dr. Humes came in and he had a
he was followed by I believe three or
four military officers they were they
were flag great in other words they were
at
rules are our general got it the
officers went into the gallery dr. Humes
came to the table I’m not exactly sure
when dr. Fink came in he was there when
Humes unwrapped ahead that’s kind of con
kindig turi to what he says I mean we
just reported to his commanding officer
which he said he didn’t come in until
the brain the heart and the lungs were
out of the body when in dr. Humes he
unwrapped the head
he and and dr. Fink examined the head
and that in front of you oh yeah oh well
I’m saying the shoulder I’m standing
it’s the right shoulder of the president
looking down like that and at this point
how many autopsies have you done
yourself up to this point and how many
brains have you seen a lot of no we when
I started I you know it’s Marian August
we went immediately it’s Bethesda I
started doing and my duty I was a
student there I had classes and so forth
but every fourth night I had duty and we
would do two maybe three autopsies a
night so I really don’t know how many I
had done so you’ve seen a number of
different yeah I wound it brains you’ve
seen a different scenarios most of the
things that we did it at Bethesda were
actually patients from the hospital I
remember only probably one other trauma
that I remember is that a sailor had
night out and hit a concrete barrier
most of the others were people who had
died from that we had drownings from
Annapolis had you seen any other
shooting like had you done an autopsy
where there was a I know I had not got
it no so while you’re looking at Fink
and Humes doing what they’re doing what
would what did you notice did you see
anything different you know the
description of the head wound that is in
the autopsy report hesitate to use the
word spin but I think it’s a spin on
what what we really saw could you
elaborate please well it’s actually the
size of the wound
location of the wound I believe that the
measurement that’s in the autopsy report
actually is the measurement of the wound
not of the opening where the bone and
scalp was missing but actually was a
measurement of the total wound shown
after the scout was reflected in other
words the whole right side of the head
was malleable
you could actually just move it around
with your hands the skull was fractured
in multiple areas from would you mind if
we take out the brain yeah you kind of
showed to us what you would you mean by
the little bit more visual is that okay
with you
okay now the description of the wound is
not going to be this is not going to
give you a description of the of the
wound itself it’s only going to be the
skull the skull is going to give you a
description of the one this will will
give you an idea of what I saw the brain
looked like as opposed to the extensive
damage that was in the autopsy report
and this brain the brain that that I had
they this should be about
[Music]
the damage for this brain was basically
in this area here that’s what you saw
yeah okay there’s a portion of the brain
here that that was missing fully missing
yeah okay but it was it was less than a
third of the total brain less than a
third of the total brain or less than a
third of half the brain no the right
side no it’s less than a third of the
total brain okay was approximately the
area right here got it
okay that’s significant because in the
autopsy report they say that over half
of the total brain was was missing the
other thing in the autopsy report they
say that there was a deep laceration
that ran this way and was internally
down into the ventricles here and then
also in the ear had a description of it
penetrating into this area here now the
wound that I saw this is the occipital
area here in the parietal area here and
in the temporal area in here the wound
was here about approximately where my
finger is
and it’s extending down here it was
about three and a half inches long just
being the length about two inches wide
that was where the missing bone was and
the missing tissue was okay it wasn’t it
wasn’t exactly a square or round thing
the top of it of the wound was kind of
domed and it came down and kind of had a
little Te’o type thing that came back
down into here and then it kind of came
back up in this area now the strange
thing about it was at this top of the
wound here there was an incision in the
scallop they went approximately to the
coronal suture here I went a little bit
past here an incision an incision well I
saw right it was actually see why would
there be an
that’s a good question the scalp had you
know remember all of this all this this
portion in this area is fractured okay
to the sagittal suture which is this
suture all of this area was fractured
now but it was it wasn’t gone it was he
was still being kept intact by the by
the scalp scalp had rents and tears in
it and along this area it seemed like
that some of those tears in the scalp
had been surgically connected the little
connections to follow fracture line in
here okay and that extended to about
here okay you know that was the same
when when dr. Humes took the wrappings
off of the head there was a secondary
wrapping on it that I you know I think
was the towel but the scalp and and the
whole thing this was all all matted hair
and missing scalloped torn scalp fatty
tissue from underneath the scalp which
is all normal yeah which is all normal
okay it had kind of stuck to that
secondary layer so as he was taking it
off this Eric kind of gaped open but as
soon as we separated it from from the
towel
it went back together now that
significant rule and for the fact is
that you could actually if if you want
you to do that you could actually lay
this skull open you could actually take
your hands and separate it okay
so that would have given you access to
the brain which means which again
speculations short as that fact is that
that you would have had access you
possibly had access to the rain before
we received it in that in the morgue but
where would they that is that’s a
question that I would force one on the
drive that’s not enough time
well I don’t know there’s a lot of
theories there’s a lot of probabilities
last year I have friends that were in
school with me and and I visited one of
their friends in DC and just out of
curiosity william law and i we actually
went to visit think Oh Franco Lennox it
was given to the military and before
World War one it was under Walter Reed
Walter Reed was responsible for it they
used it for convalescence for world one
world war two patients and so forth so I
wanted to check out that because there
was an individual had speculated and he
said that surgery was done a clandestine
service surgery was done at this Glen
Cove annex and so we decided to see if
it was possible we drove to the complex
drove back to the back gate at Bethesda
he was eight minutes GPS the funeral
home that was involved in it was
scholar’s we actually time to distance
from Gaulish funeral home to Bethesda
which again was about eight minutes now
and recently we found that there may
have been another funeral home that was
involved in it Humphreys paw fries
supposedly had the contract with
Bethesda Naval Hospital at that time
understand I my command was not in the
Naval Hospital my command was the Naval
Medical School there there’s also a
possibility that the person Tom Robinson
who performed who actually prepared the
body along with a couple of other people
was not an employee of callers he was an
employee of Humphreys we haven’t been
able to confirm that I’ve tried in the
last three years to get in touch with
Tom Robinson
not been able to do that what will be
the difference if that was a case
well I read an interview of Tom with a
Swedish our Danish researcher Tom’s
description of the wounds and so forth
are similar to mine and almost opposite
of what’s in you know what what’s being
told in public and so forth the
exaggeration of the wounds when we
receive the body there were other other
things that were unusual the tracheotomy
that we were told it was a tracheotomy
in the throat very unusual even for an
emergency trach why is that well first
of all I never really seen a trach that
was done horizontally and I’ve never
seen a trach that was that large it also
had some ragged edges
dr. Perry said that he actually had done
that trach over a wound his description
of the trach wound that he did was was
what you normally would would expect but
if you did a trach there that was that
wide you wouldn’t you would probably
never do it because in that area you you
there would be a danger of damaging the
thyroid so you wouldn’t it wouldn’t be
even as an emergency trach you wouldn’t
want to create more damage and
especially in this situation when you
wouldn’t want to damage one of the
primary life supporting organs that and
the wound in the head the only other
wound that I actually saw was the one in
the back and it was it was in the upper
back at the upper border of the scapula
but this is that’s the wound that that
was on the only head itself the wound
wasn’t obvious as to the extent of it
and the margins and so forth until the
scalp was actually reflected back from
him and when the Scout was reflected
back
some of the bone that was here to scalp
had fallen off of it made it look larger
than it really was
and I think that’s the measurement that
send the official autopsy so when you
saw the brain cuz you know the
conspiracy is it’s not just one bullet
the magic bullet whatever you want to
call it and there’s shots from the front
not just from the back it’s not just
Oswald and by the way no one’s saying
Oswald didn’t shoot and he wasn’t one of
the shooters they’re just saying that
there may be somebody from the front as
well that shot there’s six or seven
shots what’s your thoughts on that from
what you saw if in fact Oswald did shoot
from the depository the wound that was
in the back that I saw was not a fatal
one the wound I saw in the right temple
and that couldn’t have been Oswald no no
he couldn’t it would have had to have
come from from actually the right front
look I mean you’re certain about that
I’m yeah I saw the wound dr. Humes and
dr. Fink found the wound you examined
this whole area of the back yes sir
were there any other wounds except one
at the base of the neck and one up in
the spill no sir that we’re not about
the head wound sir there was only one it
was the only one entrance wound in the
head yes sir
now can you be absolutely certain that
the wound you described as the entry
wound was in fact that yes indeed we can
so let me let me ask you this when you
see everybody on TV every news everybody
from TV Senate’s from back at that
moment when this happened you’re there
in the room every conversation go to
dinner or lunch friend people co-workers
how are you holding yourself back from
saying they’re lying that’s not the case
I guess it goes back to the same same
credibility you didn’t think that would
believe you’ve got anything right how do
I really don’t want to be critical but
there are some really fine
researchers out there a they’ve done a
fantastic job
and have dedicated most of their life to
them they don’t readily accept the
possibility that that they could be
incorrect everything that is new or
contradictory to their theories so forth
is automatically rejected I would be I
you know I would be more than willing to
participate in a objective legal inquiry
where where you would be able to you
know someone who’s objected not and I’m
not talking about a group of physicians
they were to review the evidence and
that type of session I’m talking about a
true law-enforcement objective
investigation into a murder why do you
think it hasn’t been done yet though
well I’m not sure that it can be done
why do you say that I think the
assassination of Oswald eliminated that
possibility and I think it was they
wanted to keep and this is all my
opinion okay I’m not I have no inside
information anything I think they wanted
they wanted to keep it within the realm
of control of the government you know
how sometimes when me and my wife go and
let’s just say a name comes up that’s
her father’s name and her father passed
I say are you thinking about your dad or
you know how you go some places and for
me something comes up about Iran and
home Amy and the Shah she asks hey are
you okay I’m sure JFK came up many times
was there ever like babe what do you
think about this
Jim you okay was it all buried those
moments or she just respected and says
look if you don’t want me to go there
I’m not gonna go there well actually
since I started writing a book she’s
become more involved it’s important to
know you’ve been you guys been married
for 55 years and three months you got
married August of 63 which was three
years before the assassination so you’re
selling I see it was actually August
before this
the August before tea sends annexed yeah
that’s what I was referencing always so
55 years you’ve been married 55 years
you’ve been married this is maybe going
a little bit deeper myself and I’m just
curious to know what do you think about
it what what is your opinion on Humes
yourself do you have an opinion on Humes
I think in Humes and Boswell and Fink
they were good people but one of the
things that that everybody seems to to
negate is the fact is that they were
military they were in knew in the Navy
they were all career officers they were
getting close to their retirement my
feeling is that they were given a
scenario and they were directed to
actually support that through all the
autopsy findings now I don’t think that
set well with dr. Humes
he really wasn’t that kind of an
individual but he had no alternative and
that’s one of the reasons I say that the
autopsy a lot of the autopsy report is a
spin on what we actually saw the
measurement wounds
13 centimeters that’s almost 5 inches
that’s it’s almost inch and a half over
what what I actually saw now as a Cavett
Cavett to that I would like to say you
know I didn’t measure them but he did
well well what I think he used and then
dr. Boswell actually said and his his
notes that it was 19 centimeters and I
think what they did was that the
measurement was taken after the scalp
was retracted some of the bone it
separates from the scalp and have fallen
in so it had increased the size of the
wound that was actually missing where
just seemed to be bone was missing would
they being ordered oh yes I’m sure
all the way from the top oh I’m sure so
then send what’s your opinion on Lyndon
not very well I figured that was the
entire question I wanted to ask you
today I was in San Antonio and I lived
in San Antonio and Lyndon Johnson and
San Antonio are in Texas was I guess you
could say a good old boy politically he
was supported he’s not someone that you
even want to invite to dinner you know
it’s amazing I’m reading a book right
now I just finished a good friend of
mine wrote Robert Greene and he talks
about Lyndon Johnson heavily yeah and he
talks about how ambitious he was to the
point where he was willing to do
anything at all cost to make it to the
next level in his career and how coming
up for him he would go against Hubert
Humphrey you know the Triple H Ebert
Humphrey and then he had this one mentor
of his Russell that kind of calmed them
down and he tried to keep his motivation
in it and when you read about him
there’s a little bit of animosity as
towards JFK and amount of la viga
because a lot of a lot of animosity
because he was never a great orator and
he was never loved like JFK was loved
and he was way more ambitious it was way
more important for him to become a
president in JFK because in JFK’s family
his older brother was supposed to be
President Joseph’s right and you know
this because if you read history the
older brother was a war he died as a
pilot and his father was depressed for
several years and so when you read this
the part as I get deeper into this a lot
of things make sense you know when when
you when you tie it up a lot of things
make sense do you think a part of the
investigation that is to be done do you
think there needs to be him involved in
it as well or no you’re thinking more
specifically from researchers because I
think a part of this is also to see two
things one you know the six soldiers
that saw the casket coming in early
right you knew there was a couple a
force a couple a fives and an e6 that
later on became a lieutenant so either
they’re lying which why would they
they’re not be monetized why would they
say that they didn’t see it and then the
other side is you know why wouldn’t they
tell the truth and then the opposite
side is what is the motive behind
wanting to take the front bullet wounds
out
would be the motive so would you say
Lyndon Johnson would need to be a little
bit investigated to see there was a
motivation there a small I I would say I
guess I can answer that with a question
who were the two people in the
government it’s a time that benefited
the most him and Hoover that’s right is
that the right answer
yeah I just got the chills all over my
body yeah it goes deeper than that by
the way because you have to go like five
steps prior to him and Hoover on why
Hoover so the story goes back of
Kennedy’s running I’m gonna go a whole
different angle here and and and I’m
curious to know where you’re gonna say
here Kennedy’s running and Kennedy’s
having a hard time with Illinois and
there’s a mayor Cook County who helps
with the seven to eight thousand people
this is some conspiracy who were dead
but he helps and that mayor who one one
because if Chicago mob boss apparently
helped him out and the mayor’s son who
has became a late mayor later on they
asked them was a mob ever involved in
helping you so then you go to Chicago
right and Chicago you go to the mob
that’s trying to get JFK to become
president after JFK’s up winning he
didn’t need Illinois but he ended up
winning illinois’s well he won
single-handedly over Nixon
okay so then that happens and when that
happened the mob always had Hoover not
say that there’s the mob there’s no such
thing as the mob and Hoover never said
it
Jed guven ever said it but because the
mob had some insider information on
Hoover that Hoover didn’t want to become
public and I think you may know what
some of those things may be at that time
it was a big deal and so when this whole
thing is taken place
Linden’s extremely ambitious on what he
wants to be fastest way to become a you
know they say the fastest way to become
a millionaires to marry one and the
fastest way to become a president is to
be a vice president who eliminates a
president now again this is all stuff
that I read and I research and then you
find out why he waited by the plane
Air Force One you know why
years later when Jackie did a recording
that the tapes was earned they found and
he looked at Jackie Kennedy’s recording
why did she say Lyndon was a very
dangerous man she always feared him
because she always felt like he wanted
to do something to to John and so when
you put all these pieces of puzzle
together and why when the Commission
came out is it the Warren Commission
when it came out why would he say 75
years seal why not 30 years because
that’s the typical number why would we
do 75 year old enlisted would be dead so
no one would be able to investigate
these guys all these things are little
bit too much for someone to say there’s
something here we’re dealing with you
know and you know even after the House
Select Committee my deposition and
Paul’s deposition was sealed again for
another 50 years and it was only
released because of the record review
board there’s so much involved in this
and one of the things that I’ve tried
not to do is to speculate now at the end
of the book I a little bit I do yeah and
and you know I’ve had people say well
you know and and and I guess I have to
defend I guess I have to defend the
doctors if you were looking at a
retirement and you had a family you’d
spend all your life you know in one
organization one company or something of
that nature and something came in
threaten your retirement and your
pension and even possibility of jail
time and you were told well you really
don’t have to lie about it but you have
to adjust it what you know what you know
to fit this yeah well you told that I
was and I was just I mean I was too low
on the
totem poles Howard Hughes Boswell and
they may have been because a retirement
so they had to make the right decisions
for their families because the 25-30
years is on the line sure I mean they
were they were all I think they were
thirty-year people and third year people
you know what happens with them you know
what I wouldn’t mind doing why don’t you
and I take a break and why don’t we go
to the Dealey Plaza and kind of see that
and then come back and finish the
interview if you don’t mind because it’s
based on what we’re talking about here
I’d like to see what you think the other
angle would be if they was shot where
would are we coming from if you don’t
mind taking a break and going to the
Dealey Plaza
so that’s the X right there so Jim if
that’s the eggs and the shot from Oswald
came from there and you’re looking at
the brain we would have to assume the
other shot that you saw in the front
would come from where if we’re standing
there probably right there somewhere
around there because actually the shot
was in the temple exited here temple hit
the temple of God right
a little bit above and in front of the
year right in the hairline that’s that’s
was the first and then it exited back
here and that’s why he kind of shook
back and he won back yeah and say the
thing about it is that the wound that
they mentioned in the autopsy and so
forth in the back of the head is missing
I never saw that you never saw that no I
should have seen him because I handle
the body for the x-ray actually placed
the film cassettes for Custer what is
this – for your own level of curiosity
being here does it do anything for you
not really I I mean I always wanted to
come down it’s it’s a lot smaller than I
I see oh yeah that’s right it’s a place
now people all over the world come here
to see the sex there’s a throat wound
probably with it come from right over
the bridge probably right right off of
the railroad or it could have come from
individuals see where those people are
standing this group or the ones in the
back yes to where the guy is to begin it
could have come from there in one of the
photographs in the book the neck wound
you can see in the right side of the
neck one where there’s a ragged area top
if you look closely
you’ll also see that there is a a Ridge
or tunnel under the skin that goes up
with so what was that the are you saying
that’s another bullet I think that’s
probably the one that dr. Perry
described I think it was removed because
see the one in the back never penetrated
the pleural cavity and humans could
actually probe it with his little finger
but there was no room there was no boy
later you said he went in what a an inch
an inch and a half with his finger
little finger with his middle with his
pinkie was a little bit yeah huge that
huge mean but he did it actually in
never penetrated the chest cavity
AutoCAD apparently did make a bruise on
the wrong because hummin on the backside
of the middle lobe of the right long
just to call the middle lobe on the
first load there was kind of a reddish
spot there that we saw they moved it up
to the top of the line he also moves the
wound in the back from the area where it
was to the neck wound and all of that
was the support to single Bullet theory
so let me ask you can you put a number
two how many bullets you think there was
shot or know just what you saw with the
brain you wouldn’t be able to know that
tell you when I left the mortgage like I
saw at least two wounds that I thought
that you were one I wasn’t aware of the
neck wound because we had been told it
was a it was an emergency trach and
believe it alone got it and that was
those were there only two wounds that’s
all I never saw the supposedly entry
wound in the back of the head and in
reality if there had been an entry wound
they’re where they located it would have
been within the big wound in the back of
the head where all the stuff was missing
it would have had to have been either on
the margin of it or whatever and I
didn’t see that and then the pictures of
the face show honestly I believe that
was that was government in this
information it’s inconceivable for me
that that Fox would have had possession
world they’ve been so tight on
everything else
everything’s been just totally locked
away in all of the real evidence that
was given to Robert Kennedy and
apparently he disposed of it yeah
there’s just too many questions well so
you’re saying there’s nothing really can
happen for there to be an open
investigation now right I don’t think
that the government will allow it
because they there’s so much stuff that
they still have sequestered they won’t
release and what we were hoping Trump
wouldn’t be involved in all of this to
the point and he was released it but and
he did he released a lot of it but the
thing about it is it wasn’t submitted so
it wasn’t significant stuff it was not
it had nothing to do really with the
autopsy what’s the biggest worry with it
as though what is the worry and the
concern that if comes out that it was an
inside job it’s going to show the rest
of the world a level of instability you
know a level of unstable government
internally I don’t think that that’s the
case you know when the founding fathers
established the country they didn’t
establish the House of Lords now we have
a House of Lords which is Congress so I
think it’s it’s a see why I cya you mean
yeah neither cosa I believe that yeah I
believe it to investigate a Attorney
General or Assistant Attorney General
they subpoena me he just ignores it how
is that possible without repercussions
of course Johnson said it was because
the people couldn’t handle the right
information are those what really
happened I think it’s to go further but
that’s again – that’s my that’s my take
on that speculation of course and which
you notice with him he was loved around
the world you know a lot of countries
around the world started museums on
behalf of his name because of the level
of admiration that for us I think that’s
probably why there’s such a high level
of wanting to know exactly what happened
what was the motivation behind it well I
think that he was one of the first
people in a long series of presidents
that actually was beginning to look at
the people as people power of who’s in
charge where the Republican Democrat yep
army or you yep no and that’s that’s all
is I saw politics in this country as we
go power they buy them they buy it’s
easy to buy in nowadays it’s a money
game and you wonder you you go and see
who can be bought and who can’t be
bought and you know the voters sitting
there saying I like this guy but it’s
not as much as you like in the voter
there’s too much of that
like you said corporations are coming in
and are able to buy votes and whether
they want to do something that has to do
with regulation or making it difficult
for their competitors to do something
they’re not looking at the political
side they’re looking at more regulations
that’s going to hurt competition let me
ask you did you ever did you spend a lot
of time study in Oswald or not really
his background you know him wanting to
be a Russian citizen and all that stuff
or no I really don’t know you know
people ask you do you do I think he he
killed Kennedy yeah well that’s actually
not a climbing to stay off question
because if he’s shot at Kennedy and he
shot from behind Kennedy then what he
did he was he was apparently responsible
for the back room which was hospital and
would not have been available you’re
certain of that that it wouldn’t been
fatal you know and you saw that back
wound yeah what would have been worst
case with that they would have done
surgery and he would have recovered oh
no I they probably would have just
removed the bullet and closed it I mean
it wasn’t destructive in any sense that
it hit a vital organ or it even broke a
rib the whole information the whole
report that are out there
the autopsy report that’s that point
they don’t make sense from a medical
standpoint from an anatomical standpoint
they just don’t make sense it’s almost
like they’ve been manipulated or spun
the real information is to lead someone
to conclusion is not the truth is there
anybody out there that is coming from
the right place morals values character
integrity that is extremely motivated to
one investigate this and want to do
something about is there someone you
know that’s out there wanted to get
deeper in this topic or now if this is
ever going to have a legal solution and
so forth it’s going to have to come
through the government and because
they’re the only one who can release the
evidence what evidence is still there
and see we still don’t know you know I’m
not allowed to see photographs that I
was there when it that’s amazing that
amazes me I’m not allowed to see the
x-rays that I took pardon how is that
even possible that amazes me or any of
those guys the enlisted guys even Dennis
or O’Connor or any of them still in
contact with you are they still around
Humes Boswell or any of them still
around and that’s what Lyndon wanted
because he knew once everybody was gone
there’s nothing that’s gonna come back
Trent
Wow that’s right and what year was the
fifty years put on you oh it was
seventy-five seventy-five to 20 25
that’s amazing and by the way they
measured it they said you know is this
one of the things about Oswald is how
long the distance was they said they
brought 12 marksmen to test shooting it
while a target is movement 12 out of 12
they all hit the target so it said it’s
not a target that really needs somehow
to be a you know sniper to be able to
hit it it wasn’t that difficult of a
target to hit but also of himself is an
interesting character and Ruby died as
well two years later so he’s not even
around for some other to be investigate
and say what do you connected to as a
local nightclub owner or a restaurant
owner well you know my opinion if Oswald
had lived they would have had
if the administration did reach out you
to want to go deeper on this would there
be an interest on on your line or no
sure but I only have the information
that I have
there’s always an interest with this so
maybe if the right person sees this
message they’re able to reach out and
billions of people this is not millions
billions that people would like to know
what happened here there’s too many
unknowns that are not fully answered yet
and there’s too many signs from credible
sources that makes you question things
well I agree also I’d like to know who
what where and why I don’t think in my
lifetime I’ll ever know but it would be
you know it’ll be something I really
would like well you never know you never
know what happens that the part about
you is from me on why I wanted to do
this because bill contacted me says Pat
you know let’s try to see if we can do
something with you and Jim I’m in a
business of reading people because
that’s what I do for a living I run a
business I’m supposed to see who I’m
doing business with and what I do for a
living there’s nothing about you with a
motive to monetize and use this as a
platform to make a multi-million dollar
contract book any that you come across
as somebody that you’re just trying to
get to the bottom of it and investigate
it because there’s some unknowns and
50-plus years later you’ve agreed to
kind of talk about it a little bit more
than before and so I don’t I think
there’s something there the purpose of
the book is to get the information out
there you know I guess it has to do with
my own mortality
it’s just absolutely unconscionable that
what’s being taught in schools now it’s
not true but it’s accepted as part of
history someone once said that history
is written by the winner and we
definitely lost here the other one
whoever controls the present controls
the past some see whoever controls the
present controls the future of a history
it says a lot well this was great to
kind of see the perspective of something
was to happen which angle would have
come from without being able to stand
out there
it would be impossible but I can I can
tell you the angle from the wound in the
back it actually went down at about 30
45 degree angles like oh like abyss yeah
from the front
no what’s he like this one he got shot
or was he straight with because he was
he was going like this and then he got
shaky he got shot first in the throat
that’s what his hands came up but he did
was hand came up he went down like this
and then he went back like this and this
and you can see the tissue stuff and
people say oh well half his brain was
blown out they don’t understand that a
brain that’s a very delicate type see
once it’s protected by them in energy
even in the skull there would have been
a lot of Nicola fication a lot of liquid
there they were cause of the pressure of
the bullet as the bullet energy created
personal opinion
and he fractured all of the sides and
then we’re excellent it blew the loan
out but as it passed through and created
pressure
seen demonstration completely shooting
watermelon yes yes we just have we just
shot that’s interesting we were we were
at a place called drive tanks two weeks
ago and I was on a tank when you’re
shooting stuff up and I was shooting at
watermelons and a few pumpkins and I
shot the pumpkin and the front is just a
hole but the back is a blast right and
the gentleman comes up and he says the
best things and says this the front this
is the back this the front this tabac he
says if you want to know exactly what
this means it’s what happened with JFK
so look if you’re somebody who follows
history I’m sure you were fascinated by
what we just saw here at the Dealey
Plaza I am myself as somebody who was in
the military but you know what I’d like
to do if you don’t mind
Jim is obviously we’re at the end here
and the book that you wrote would
William Law at the cold-shoulder of
history why don’t you take a minute and
tell us a little bit about what I’m
going to get as a read if I read this
book I think you’ll get a different
perspective on the whole JFK
assassination these are my memories of
what I actually participated in
concerning the brain dr. Boswell and I
did did the body proper and what I
observed from dr. Humes and and dr.
Fink’s examination of the head we
actually took three sets of x-rays I
actually helped Gerald Custer who was
the x-ray tech placed the cassettes and
moved the body and so forth for the
first set of x-rays he took him and when
he came back he brought an assistant
with him
I think it’ll it’ll give the reader some
thought but it also is going to require
the reader to make some judgments on its
own it’s gonna make you go and say
really let me go look it up no way and
let me go google it which i think it’s
great but that’s you saying that’s a
great thing
yeah that’s the purpose and I think that
book does that if you’re interested in
that topic you your parents your kids
anybody I’ll go get the book gifted for
somebody click on the link below to go
buy the book and if you haven’t watched
the interview I did with Clint Hill it
was an interview done about two years
ago
so click on a link over here are we
gonna put the link for the interviews
while down here a Clint Hill I suggest
you go watch that as well with that
being said Jim thank you so much for
coming out truly thank you for your time
and thanks thank you for your courage
for wanting to open up and tell the
story and as well as your service [Music]
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