any great creative person is never happy
if they’re happy they’re the wrong
creative Persaud the minute a creative
person has created something they’re
unhappy with it do you think it’s almost
mathematically impossible for a founder
of a company to be happy with any CEO in
a public board the number one job that
they have is to have a great CEO they’re
number two job is to have a pipelining
for that CEO what I’m really looking for
is I’m looking for leaders that can
create other leaders I couldn’t prove
the future and it’s so easy for metric
people to prove the past I also fully
believe in the 3d printing of food and
and I think everybody’s going to be fit
20 years from now what’s really gonna
have are we gonna have like smart
clothes like is there gonna be smart
so today we’re sitting with an
entrepreneur but for some of you guys
that want to know maybe well let me see
what the data the stats are chip Wilson
founder of Lululemon pants which now is
not just pants they went from being a
small business to not being a twelve
billion dollar business give or take the
men sitting to my left your right got a
net worth of roughly 3.8 billion but
who’s counting and a one number I’m so
curious about getting to know about him
he’s got a new book I will talk about
here in a minute so when they started
Lululemon they were one person one
percent of their customers were men they
went from 1% in 1998 to 30% in 2018 how
do you do that I’m so curious to find
out more about how the CEO and founder
chip Wilson did it so with that being
said sorry Patrick it’s great to be with
you thanks for today
cool for some of you that don’t know
when chip and I were talking for a few
weeks about wanting to do this interview
we were thinking about doing in our
speedos today but we thought it was
inappropriate maybe you’d be
uncomfortable and that is an inside joke
because one thing about chips work
environment is if he had it his way why
don’t you tell the rest of us if you had
it your way what would you were three
pieces of you know maybe Armani suit or
what would it look like I mean I guess
from living a lifetime as a competitive
swimmer you know when I was young it’s
funny how I’m 63 years old and still
defined myself as a competitive swimmer
but you know living that life and it
speedo was you know just the most
comfortable thing ever and I and I think
the cold water and swimming always kind
of cooled me down so when I actually
went to put clothes on it was
exceedingly uncomfortable and I felt I
was always sweating so the speedo felt
where when our life really happened for
me
so how wild is that you like to have the
least amount of clothes on but your
business is to put clothes on people
right that’s that’s a pretty interesting
dynamic yeah but it was the context of
knowing that that’s how clothes all
clothing should fit like you should be
naked you shouldn’t ever think about
your clothing I like that especially in
athletics you want to win that event you
shouldn’t have to think about what
you’re wearing so is that like a are you
thinking about coming up with a new
league like new competitive sports type
of thing is that a next project after
Lululemon or is that just an idea no
that’s just the design concept so New
York Times don’t write about it and say
he said he’s gonna do something like
that so look let’s get into it and
before talking business one of the
things I’m always curious about is a
person like you you’ve made it to the
top everybody’s looking at you saying
well one day I’d love to have a story
like yours we have a lot of young
entrepreneurs who follow value Tim a lot
of executives and people that are on
business or somewhere around you know a
million at the low revenue upwards of
100 million dollars per year and they
want to find out how to scale their
business but prior to going there your
personality is very different than Mark
Cuban’s personality but your net worth
is slightly more than his this is not a
dynamic you’re loud you’re this you’re
very subtle very calm very your
temperament is an interesting
temperament that you have if I was in
high school with you we’re in 10th grade
right we’re best friends we hang out
together whose chip chip would have been
an athlete the competitive swimmer who
really would like to play football but
almost too good a competitive swimmer to
quit to play football
recognizing I’m getting too big to swim
so in other words I can do that I can
only do Sprint’s I can’t do long
distance I’m a mediocre student but I
live for athletics so the it seems like
the only reason I’m going to school is
phys ed for you at that yeah yeah okay
my dad was one of those original hippies
you know the organic food and the self
development Wow you know living in the
Esalen Institute in California during
the ass
here in the 70s and so I was a little
bit of a function of that in the inquiry
about it but definitely thought my dad
was very weird at the time and and now
of course I see almost everything he
told me actually he’s come to fruition
and life actually is about good food and
knowing yourself in that amazing yeah so
now you have a hippie as a dad but
you’re extremely competitive how does
that happen
what what caused that was it just your
DNA or was your house a house of let’s
play Monopoly and see who wins let’s
play cards and see yeah let’s play
backgammon and see who wins where did
that competitive fire come to chip or
was it just part of your DNA yeah I
think is part of DNA it doesn’t mean it
has to be there forever in life
you know I actually think Lululemon was
built on not competitive actually for
everyone winning which was far different
than the other athletic companies so it
took me 40 years to get to that point
and you know for me to win everyone has
to win for you to win everyone has to
win yeah so the the will you ever an
extremely super competitive guy that
maybe you push some people away from you
or there was never that part of you was
just an internal composed type of a
competitor no I definitely I wanted to
win I mean there was that I think it’s
the testosterone as a kid but as a child
but I think there’s a time when you
realize okay well I have a choice I can
compete to win or I can that’s a good
question why did I change I change
because winning only got me a win a
small wins but actually being inclusive
and bringing everyone in I started to
see that could bring me a bigger win so
to you competitiveness does it mean that
you’re a solo competitor I know you were
swimmer but are you somebody that also
follows team sports not anymore
I’m only because I don’t like the whole
drugs and the the media excitement about
it seems like that my love of the pure
sport has gone which is probably why I
love rugby more than anything else right
now the rugby sevens I think that are
being played in Hong Kong and Vancouver
around its that English gentlemanly
sport where you kind of give it all and
you can like crack a guy’s head but he’s
still your best friend
was there a tipping point where that
shift was made on your mind or no like
like for instance when Lululemon first
got started was the chippy side of you
still there because I mean your
manifesto when you wrote it that sounds
like a pretty competitive guys manifesto
you said one day we would like to make
Pepsi and coca-cola with cigarettes is
today great marketing I think it’s a
terrible product something like that
yeah Coke and Pepsi are the tobacco of
the future great marketing terrible
product but really where is coming from
as I felt like I didn’t care so much
about making money
but I Lululemon it was a platform of
social health I see what you’re saying I
totally feel that by the way well I
totally feel that you know how you get
an athlete that lasts a long time in the
league and and you kind of said well
look at the perfect LeBron James he’s
got the great body but this guy’s got
the discipline to condition himself and
he gets along with people etc etc but
you come across like a guy extremely
capable he pays attention to numbers
creative but at the same time people
actually like working with this guy you
got a chip beside there you don’t mind
having a tough conversation well you’re
still somebody that’s you’re likable
enough where people say I want to work
where I want to be around a guy like
this so very it you could be called an
anomaly to some people as a seal but
that’s a whole different conversation we
could have so okay so you’re an athlete
you know you come out I think you
started a couple other businesses before
Lululemon actually happened what was it
you were doing prior to Lululemon we
were led to just you know saying well
I’m we when we start a new business
called Lululemon well I fell into the
surf business by mistake I was living in
Canada no competition Quicksilver and
Billabong had just come from Australia
in the California Opie was here it was
just that the fledgling start of that my
mom was a sore I was a big guy clothing
was very tight at that time very
uncomfortable I kind of took the concept
to Canada and because I was such a big
guy I started making and there was no
real lycra at the time that I knew of
outside of speedos that I I started
making larger longer shorts for men I
went into that business and then as that
became a commodity business neither was
doing from 0 to 500 companies to much
product toph to few consumers then I
morphed into skateboarding
same thing happened and morphed into
snowboarding then when that became a
quantity product I was just in the right
place at the right time
sell to a public company got some money
could sit back and call now what and and
that’s when you said let’s try to do
Lululemon yeah and I dolls had this
thing where ice if I saw three things in
a very short amount of time I knew it
was something that was going to happen
hundred percent so I kind of walked by a
telephone post and there was a little
sign there for a yoga class which I’d
never seen before I’m in a coffee shop
and I hear two women talk about a healer
class and I go and read the newspaper
and there’s an article about yoga and I
went this is going to happen it says on
the type person that looks for that kind
of thing my success seems to have been
like just being five to seven years
ahead of the normal consumer trend what
did a name come from by the way yeah
when I had West Beach which was my
former West Beach snowboard I had a
skateboard brand I had called homeless
homeless homeless yeah so I was I was
making it I was selling to Europe in
Japan and and then I went to register
the brand cuz I woke a this is actually
gonna go but I couldn’t register
homeless because hom is French for male
and there were it was would have been
impossible to trademarks snowboarding
was going straight up and skateboarding
was like I said becoming a commodity
product so I went I’m not gonna do
homeless anymore I’m not gonna do it so
I told everybody and that year I was
over in Japan and I showing them the
snowboard line and after I do it they
turned to me and they go mr. chips and
we’re homeless
I said I told you guys I’m not doing it
and and I told him the reasons why again
and next year the same thing show them
the snowboard line mr. chips and we’re
homeless told me the same thing and you
got to get at that time it was kind of
like the Japanese yen was the highest
ever they were buying all of America
Pebble Beach the would yours is 97 9
yeah 95 94 94 6 something in there so
they phoned me up a couple months later
and they said mr. chips an we want to
buy name homeless from you and I went
and so I that I’m selling complete air
because I’m not making it anymore I
don’t own the trademarks to it
and I’m desperate for money
so so I gave them a price I thought was
absolutely ridiculous they said yes and
I went oh you know that’s easiest money
I ever made so I thought well why did
they like that name so much and I went
oh you know like the job there’s big
five big Japanese trading firms and they
are all starting to make clothing with
American sounding names but I think for
the twenty year old or the young
teenager they knew that it was more an
authentic North American name if it had
an L in it because the L doesn’t exist
in the Japanese language I started to
think of alliterations and I went this
time if I ever have another company I’m
gonna put three L’s in it and if I
consulted Japanese I’ll get three times
as much of course it was all in my
subconscious I think so then what did
you put together my how did Loulou come
and just just I don’t know one day in it
it’s especially with the word lemon at
that time because it was very well
connected to Detroit poor quality right
there of course so actually it was maybe
just on the precipice of that being a
name which could be used again and
putting Lula and lemon together seemed
to be like a super fresh name so it’s
like a formula you literally were
looking for a name with three L’s in it
right Lululemon
like when you started it did you think
it was gonna turn into what it is today
was there a vision that this is
something everybody needs to use because
I had seen what had happened the surf
skate snowboard industry when I caught
into it and how quickly it grew my first
yoga class was those six people and and
within a month it was 30 people that was
faster than I’d seen in the surf skate
snowboard business but I had no idea it
would be as big as it was but I knew I
was in it first I knew I had a new
business model of eliminating the
wholesale person in the middle and I
knew I was probably one of the only
people in the world that was really
thinking of technical clothing outside
of Mountain gear because that come from
the snowboard industry and now you know
to think of like being in the gym and
actually thinking about that in the same
kind of form as as mountain survival
clothing was an interesting context you
seemed very methodical have you read the
book blue ocean strategy
yes but Blanc
a long time ago I read a hundred books a
year so I it gets lost in in what one
what the information comes from what it
almost sounds like that’s what you did
you had a blue ocean I mean it almost
seems like we you you came out and you
know you had a blue ocean but who came
after you that’s would you say would you
put as a competitor of Lululemon well I
probably the closest that came was
Athleta they started off an online and
then the gap bought them yeah I’d say
that’s as close as it came of course
everyone’s put more into and you know
created an aura of competition around
Lululemon which leg Lululemon definitely
had the chance to move out of that
mm-hmm I mean you know we were seven
years ahead of anybody and then you know
we had the chance in poly 210 to really
own the whole space of mindfulness the
same way that Lululemon did for yoga but
you know a company gets big you get
people that don’t want to change I’d
kind of lost my voting power on the
board to be able to go no this is the
future I couldn’t prove the future and
it’s so easy for metric people to prove
the past so and they get very nervous
about investing in the future especially
if there’s if they’re a public company
and they’re really concerned with
quarterly results and so what why don’t
we transition with that because I know
you mentioned a gap your new book called
little black stretchy pants the cover is
an incredible cover you have this hole
and by the way I mean how you talk about
you know the fact that when you made
these pants one of the things about the
woman is the fact that they’re
uncomfortable when they wear their pants
that you know they’re just worried that
yoga but they don’t want to wear in the
streets because athleisure there’s a
different word the whole camel toe goes
away and you were thinking about
designing it in a way where people get
comfortable and they go in the streets
and sport it but you know when you’re
talking about some of the creativity
that goes away in the business would you
say some of that was when you brought in
Christine day because in the book you
talked about Christine day the existing
CEO at the time that you had a bit of a
direct conversation with can you walk me
a little bit through what happened there
we were a company that when I had three
kids under the age of two when I kind of
decided I was kind of like I mean kids
any age who yes so it was kind of like
blue
was a cash cow didn’t need money but I
needed advice and I wanted to you know
to transition and my job as an
entrepreneur I thought from the book the
e-myth was always to move myself out of
technical like no no move myself out of
day-to-day operations and get above so I
could like be that seven years in the
future
christine day was a great sea you know
CEO for the first couple of years but
then it would became obvious to me that
there’s a real difference between what a
CEO is and what a chief operating
officer is the CEO has to keep the
culture in the vision I think that’s
their number one job to me the CEO o is
somebody who runs the company and runs
the operation then metrics so what
became clear to me after after a while
was that I had an operator metrics CEO
so there’s an obvious clash because I’m
looking for things seven years in the
future in position the company seven
years in the future and a metric CEO
will want to be you know provide the
numbers for Wall Street that quarter
when that happens and there bonused
that way then they’re going to operate
in a short-term fashion and the easiest
way to do that especially with a great
brand like Lululemon you just lower the
expenses in other words the number the
green not let the great kind of people
you have you had a great level of
quality you have really easy to cut down
for a couple years raise the prices it
looks like the seals a genius when I
look at it and I go those are called bad
profits in the long run that’s gonna
kill you which is except exactly what
happened at Lululemon so so let me ask
you so CEO and CEO role of a CEO is
purely operational on a daily basis to
you so what is the role of a CMO I know
it’s marketing but is it pretty specific
to you on how you gauge because you seem
like you’re pretty meticulous on what
you expect from each role and define
each role what do you look at a CMO or a
president is the president different
Dennis iam actually curious to know what
you think about that well I think a lot
of these when you’re talking about
president CEO CEO a lot of those are
like indicating that that person’s next
in
I don’t know where president fits in
because I’ve never really had a
president I’ve had the CEO but if you
put someone CEO oh it’s really like
saying okay if if the CEO got hit by a
bus the CEO is in there and it’s a it’s
an indication to the public market that
you’ve got somebody ready and in place
ready you know to step into that
position because the in a public board
the number one job that they have is to
have a great CEO they’re number two job
is to have a pipeline for that CEO Wow
so no one who’s gonna replace them sure
and what is that typical timeline is
there a set timeline or not necessarily
well it really depends on who your CEO
is I mean in most cases a CEO will last
like four to five years so and it’s
really on my belief that the CEO all
CEOs number one job from the book good
to great a number five liter is
developed someone who’s better than and
under them such that whenever they leave
actually the company runs better that’s
to me as a level five CEO let me ask you
we did Christine they follow you as a
CEO is that one you stepped down as a
chairman and CEO and then she came or
had you already had other CEOs after you
before bringing Christine day in yeah I
was CEO and then when we went public I
became chairman and we hired a CEO who
worked for Reebok Bob mares was his name
and he did a great job helping us with
our production because that was probably
our bald neck at the time he was still
an East Coast kind of executive and
wasn’t quite right for us but he was
kind of a what I’d call a pretty face
for going public in other words they’re
saying the people that are going that
are investing when you go public they’ve
got a thousand companies to look at so
they want to know that there’s somebody
in there that’s kind of done it before
or kind of been in a public company kind
of understands it it’s kind of like they
need a babysitter or some it’s part of
their due diligence do you think it’s
almost mathematically impossible for a
founder of a company to be happy with
any CEO he or she hires
because as a founder you’re the
heartbeat right and so to you everything
is like do you know what we’ve put into
this do you know what this logo means do
you know what the stories behind the
system do you know behind the culture of
this do you know why we look at vision
first do you think it’s difficult for a
founder and a visionary like yourself to
have anybody that follows you and say
I’m happy with the seal well I think
specifically if the visionary founder
got more of a creative mind like I do
any great creative person is never happy
if they’re happy they’re the wrong
creative personality the minute a
creative person has created something
they’re unhappy with it I mean really
you know and they should be so the my
job then is to like if okay great I’m a
creative person and I’m so I’m an
analytical creative person so my job
then is to surround myself with
structural social people so in any kind
of dynamics there has to be that balance
so if I’m that as I knew I was a you
know visionary creative analytical
person then my needed my CEO to be the
very office at which which in in almost
all cases they have been and I think
that that system worked out beautiful
until it didn’t I mean the the real
story about that is that I lost my
control of the board
and I think for anybody going to get
private equity and then to go public
right when you go to get Google with
private equity you’ve got to know what
your board of directors and the
governance is gonna look like when your
public not when you’re just taking on
private equity money because that’s
where really all the power lays is when
the entrepreneur first sells their
company so I didn’t do that it’s my
fault you know I I have I lost control
of the board that when you sold 48% of
the steaks is that what you’re saying
that event was kind of how he exchanged
yeah which was great it was long at all
that aw that was all per right but I
just didn’t see the long-term
ramifications of not being digging in
and finding out what the governance
structure was gonna be when we went
public naturally when you go public and
this is like really really fascinating
you end up Ida had no idea
that we needed more board of directors
than we already had you know I get told
like a month before I’m a very in the
depth creative person so it’s not like
I’ve gone out and have been to harbor of
heaven that Kannamma scree but that
didn’t mean I knew somebody that could
be on the public board of directors in
the United States Board of Directors my
board that I had elected more people
because you’ve got to have three people
on the governance three people on the
audit and three people on the the
Compensation Committee just the nature
of who wants to be on a board the
mindset of that person is not
necessarily a creative person in other
words almost the the way the boards are
set up kills a creative person
it’s very metric driven it’s very
by-the-book
the litigation system in the United
States is phenomenal so everything
nothing can kind of get documented
everything can kind of get talked about
there’s no real love or caring about the
non metrics of innovation culture brand
because you can never get sued for it so
the Board of Directors doesn’t really
care a creative founder who’s that’s
their that’s what they really bring to
the morning directors loses their power
because what they say is one versus
almost eight other people when that
happened to hat what did you do you know
when a creative person loses the ability
to keep being creative because you’re
being driven by logical people how did
you handle that I didn’t really know
what was happening I felt like like we
had these directors that were coming to
our company because they went man
Lululemon is like creating the number
one metrics in the world in apparel I
mean it was off the charts and I thought
that they would want to come to the come
be to learn why that was because
directors don’t to a great extent don’t
really need the job most of them are
quite wealthy and they’re trying to give
back and I really honor that after a
while that that kind of gets lost non
creative people can’t handle the unknown
that creative people bring into the
process I always believe in this thing
the law of attraction and I think that
they want more people like them
or surrounded them in the board like
them not like you yeah right and I also
want a CEO like that because they know
how to talk to that CEO do you think
it’s almost like company starts you are
the most important person in a company
because you’re the creative visionary
found the right and as a company starts
going past the maturity phase it’s
almost like the board of directors the
directors the money people want to get
rid of you because you’re almost getting
in the way of them increasing the data
they expect or so they can make the most
on their money and return do you think
it’s almost like you’re getting in the
way as a creative founder do you think
they look at it that way I think they do
I think they’re but they don’t know that
they think that way that’s the
interesting it’s a very subconscious
thing but I know they’re smart people
and I know they’ve been in big
businesses and I know that they you know
that whatever business they were in they
knew that there had to be a right
balance between creative and analytic or
metric and you know a metric over here
yep safety security don’t rock the boat
be careful versus you know the the
creative person who’s out on this end so
you’ve got to have both these and it’s a
teeter-totter and you gotta balance
sometimes it goes up and down up and
down
interesting so said then I have a
follow-up question for someone like you
say say I’m your protege I look up to
you and you’ve chosen to mentor me for
no reason just to want to mentor me
right and I’m coming to you and I’m
speaking to you and you say Pat you’re a
little too competitive and like but you
understand shape you know we’re gonna
build that everybody needs to have this
this is just amazing but Pat I’m just
telling you’re a little too competitive
your edges too much your edges too this
right so for me I’ll come and say well
chip where were you when you were my age
right what were you thinking about when
you were my age and then you’re gonna
come back and say but you don’t
understand Pat it’s too much or you
gonna drive people away by being this
competitive so do you think it’s almost
similar like when I asked and I said how
competitive are you I’m very competitive
it I had to learn how to collaborate and
bring people together and rather making
it about the team do you think this is a
very common trend that happens I have my
own board and my board these are people
that have made money these are people
that have done fairly well for
themselves so they’re not coming in
because they’re just an advisory board
and uncle that makes 600 grand that’s
doing you a favor these are pee
that I made 200 million 100 million 50
million they’ve done well for themselves
so they look at it as an x-factor right
do you think the longer you’re in
business it becomes more logical and the
emotional side goes away would you say
there was an element of paranoia with
you or no you were pretty free-spirited
let’s trust everybody good eyes
definitely trust everybody
I think Wow give before expectation and
return I think if I had somebody who is
that competitive I would probably let
them go or I would coach them what I’m
really looking for is I’m looking for
leaders that can create other leaders of
course so in other words if people
aren’t gonna look up to that competitive
shut it and go that’s somebody I can
learn from and that I can move to the
next level from and where everyone’s
inclusive and everyone wins in it then
then it probably wouldn’t be the right
culture for Lululemon got it and that’s
one of the reasons why when you had a
chance to but maybe it is I don’t know
maybe you can correct me with this where
you almost you were twice the size of a
price point of a Under Armour and you
sat with a plank I believe and you guys
talked about doing a deal together but
you said the company was a little too
over the edge I don’t know what word you
use but yeah and that all gets overblown
I didn’t ever talk to Kevin Plank okay
that’s what the article was written that
you sat down and he spoke to him
whatever if that was an article that was
a media person creating a story in order
to sell sensationalism in order to sell
marketing clicks in order to pay their
mortgage and their kids let’s to be
clear on that
no the only statement I made is that you
know I went you know in my own mind I
went down we talked and I went well
wouldn’t it be neat if we could put this
great men’s coming together with this
great woman’s clear you actually saw it
obvious I mean Nike was the big the big
not you know we were both good at
opposite ends of that so it made sense
to like think about it it would be
stupid of me not to like contemplate
that that would be a good move but this
that the cultures were just too diverse
one ultra male win at all costs and
Lululemon was everyone wins it almost
sounds like because I know in the book
you talk a lot about the fact that
there’s three different types of women
and one is a super woman the other one
is a balance woman and
and power power woman can you can you
talk a little bit about on that because
I mean you Thomas September 28 32 years
old that’s very specific you know it’s
sort of target mark or a target market
you got very specific on who was the
ideal target market for you and it’s
detailed owns a cat it’s thinking about
possibly getting married but not yet its
athletic takes care of her body you were
that detailed about who your customer
was that’s incredible I believe as a to
start a company you’ve got to know the
real subconscious of the customer that’s
buying it and for me that 32 year old
was our iconic like that was our I don’t
Tiger Woods leave on James whatever you
want it to be we didn’t have to go out
and buy you know buy you know big money
sponsorship artists was just to make
sure that that 32 year old loved
everything that we did it’s interesting
because everything we do is segment it
every time we go on the computer
anything we say it’s all segments and so
in branding then I had to figure out
well who is our customer and so then
that’s when I came up with just like I’m
sorry just like Gen X Gen Y you know
that type of thing I came up with
superwoman was a certain age a certain
mindset and that was the mother of these
super girls that were these highly
educated daughters of these power woman
they created a whole new world that had
never existed before and that was a
really a 24 to 32 year old woman that
was highly educated professional with no
children owned a condo and very fit
traveled the world because before that
age in 1998 you know you could say all
women got you know had babies at 24 and
left the workforce so it was a major
shift in the way the world occurred and
I was putting language to what I saw in
reality so did you like I want to know
the process because for me I’m in the
financial industry so who’s your ideal
client 27 to 35 married with kids you
know ambitious certain Drive that they
have we have certain things that we look
at but for you what was your processing
of
coming up with who will be the perfect
ideal candidate for you was it research
was it you sitting out and thinking
about did you collaborate with other
people on your board or your home office
or your marketing team how did you come
out come up with that number in Africa I
know so much charity money was moving in
there because the goal was to educate
woman because everyone knew of a better
educated woman will wait longer to have
children and have fewer children so when
I woke up one day and I saw something in
the paper that said 60% of the graduates
at a university or woman like in 1998 I
knew there was a massive change in the
world and maybe I was the first person
to see it where really I think that was
the inflection point for woman being
more powerful than men but it’s 20 years
ago then you gotta gotta go okay if
these girls are now 22 years old
what are they gonna grow into like
what’s gonna happen well they are they
are gonna have condos they are gonna be
well-dressed they’re gonna have money
twenty eight year old woman before that
didn’t have any money because they had
two kids and their husband was out
working and they were struggling on a
mortgage and there was nothing there but
the minute that these women are still
single and they’re still just growing
their career and rather than leaving the
workforce at 24 and now they’re 28 30 32
making not this like thirty thousand
year but 80 90 hundred thousand there’s
a lot of disposable income there so then
I went okay
I knew yoga was coming I knew there was
a lot of other things kind of put in
place and I knew that there was now the
ability to buy a very very high quality
athletic product that had never been
made before so that that was your
process and on how you came out with it
so do you have a system on how you make
decisions like in your mind is there a
system that you have on how you make any
kind of a decision I know one of my my
biggest issues and other people may be
other entrepreneurs will find this is
again being a creative person being five
to seven years in the future almost
everything I think is going to happen is
it’s almost like a feeling because it’s
a million touch points not any one
specific thing and I say that you know
six percent of women out of university
were
graduates but that was like that took me
over the edge of probably a thousand
different touch points so that gal I had
internally but I didn’t know how to
express expressing you know like a color
to a blind person is like very difficult
and it’s the same kind of thing and my
creative creative people inside a
company have to be protected because
sometimes they’re wrong
and when they’re go wrong then the
metric people just love to go oh I knew
you’d be wrong of course I’m gonna be
wrong every now and again but that gives
me the ability to jump in take control
put parameters around the creative
person and the creativity never comes
back and I’d say this is the biggest
downfall of American public companies
interesting not knowing how to nurture
the creative minds and allowing data to
crush the creatives machine of coming up
with the next ideas that is that kind of
what you’re saying right my statement
would be you have to have a seal that
understands creative so well that they
can protect creative from the metric
finance machine that is usually they’re
usually better spoken they’re usually
better educated they can prove their
data because they have metrics from the
past where when the Mets won the
creative person does something wrong are
you know it doesn’t work out they can
then they have to start proving the
future and if you have eight of nine
people on your board of directors and
you’re sitting there they’re gonna go
yeah we’ll go with this person that can
prove so you would say somebody like you
is living in a future truth sure sure
honey use a trigger so you’re the future
truth gal you’re sure sure
unbelievable that’s a that’s an
interesting we have so so what do you do
with that is it kind of like a politics
where it’s like Democrats and
Republicans they both kind of need each
other to keep it balanced or do you kind
of have to separate create a fully
formal logic and don’t let them clash
because if you’re a creative founder you
have no choice but to sit in that
boardroom when you’re a chairman of the
board and not allowed these guys to tell
you what what happened last quarter well
what’s going on based on your numbers
you did three quarters ago or two years
ago it looks like this is what’s gonna
happen what do you do to make sure you
don’t have your creative guys heart be
broken at least you know their ideas be
broken both sides have to
appreciate each other and I the great
analogy is just getting married man men
and women are not supposed to be alike
on any kind of level they I mean there’s
some crossover but they have an end
vision and an end goal and in my mind
that’s all was we want to raise great
children that are productive in the
world and that we love and they we love
them right we want to be great
grandparents that’s the end goal so you
have these two people that almost can
look at life entirely different ways and
even within that you can have one metric
and one creative person you can have one
one nurse one engineer do you know what
I mean it’s all over the place but these
people because they have a common end
goal they know they need each other to
get there and it’s a synergy thing one
plus one equals three but if you just
have a metric board then it’s one just
have a bunch of creative people it’s
just one I mean that has to that that’s
the big opening I’m trying to really
well one of ten big old things I’m
trying to say in my book so you know one
of the questions I asked the earlier
that I’d like to bring up is you know so
many times a company has a certain
direction they’ve gone product wise
hypothetically like maybe you know some
companies say we’re gonna go low-income
we’re gonna go middle America we’re
gonna go upper-class we’re gonna go
affluent because we’re Goldman Sachs and
you have to come up with a minimum of 10
million and then you change a philosophy
right
you went from 1% men 99% woman now
you’re 30% men 70% women that’s not an
easy thing to do what how did you guys
make that big of a transition from 1 to
30 well actually I think it’s not good
enough I think it’s actually one of the
big feelings of Lululemon and in a
missed opportunity I would call it
definitely when we started off in yoga
there was most men were quite slight if
I can put it that way and what I’m not
effeminate but slight because they were
in such a good shape but they were
usually on the small end of things and
really in hot yoga at that time all you
wore I mean really a lot of the men that
came were actually did wear speedos and
then we started making you know kind of
short kind of shorts but it wasn’t like
men needed a lot of clothing and was
so that was the genesis of where we came
from and then woman just because nobody
else was doing woman’s beautiful
athletic clothing that was technical we
really the market was so big we couldn’t
really like build on the men’s that much
of course I come from men’s surf skate
snowboarding business that was the whole
thing so I was quite cognizant that the
future was there and there was a time to
do it probably around 2008 you could
start to see the inflection point where
all these women were looking so good
coming into the gym and men like kind of
had to step up the plate you know it was
kind of like wow I can’t really like
this baggy holy like gray styles I
haven’t washed in three weeks like no
you know like I got a you know this and
I think people stopped going to bars at
that time they stopped drinking they
stopped you know there I mean it is a
general what your did you say this is
coming from a study that’s oh wait mm
anything had to do with the drop of the
market or not at all that had none got
it
you know actually I there one thing
about that as I think that instead of
people doing gambling and drinking and
smoking they actually moved to athletics
even more as a coping mechanism so the
market crash in essence what you’re
thinking I don’t know what data you have
I’d be curious to know more the market
crash made us healthier yeah I mean or
we went to a different form of coping
with it so around that time then you we
could I could easily see that the men’s
market was never gonna be as big as a
woman’s market because women just have
more clothing they’ve got more pieces to
cover up yeah the bottom line that is a
good point and they’re colder and so
they you know they think much
differently but well some men would want
the less pieces to be covered up right
but that’s a completely different market
yeah I mean like Paul right just sitting
behind the camera but please go ahead
I’m sorry so um so then there was an
inflection time though that was time to
like set the base for for men’s and at
the time we were just coming out of
being constrained by a retail store I
mean ecommerce was just eking out in
2005 670 know what I mean and it was
mostly a commodity product it was like
sinb old sword Kleenex or something like
that not something that was tactile you
could hold you know that you needed to
fit and all that type of stuff so we
were just kind of moving into that era
but it was easy to see that you know
because we couldn’t make like 50% of our
store 40% of our storm ends but
ecommerce was gonna allow that platform
to happen all we had to do was show it
in our stores and allow the freedom and
the breathability for men to go online
and start and start buying it and we
could have been 10 years ahead of Nike
or Under Armour as anybody else because
nobody else was was doing the vertical
model missing the middleman we had the
opportunity to make much much better
quality product at a much better price
which we did mostly until we you know
got you know quarterly reports you know
from the wall street going back logical
it’s like it’s painful so let me ask you
I see a Lululemon store in the mall and
I’ll generally just look at it and I’ll
say one nice stuff and I’ll walk away in
my mind my wife she’ll stop by Lululemon
and goes inside and I sell see you I’m
going to go to Nike or something like
that you are a big guy I’m a big guy you
just said earlier that some of the
customers that were coming into one a
wear Lululemon they were smaller like
I’m in Argentina last week and I’m in
Italy the month before and I go to
stores to buy clothes I’m like I need a
sports jacket sir I’m sorry man we’re
not gonna find any sports jacket your
size in Argentina or in Italy because
what it is you know their market is a
different market
do you wear Lululemon today yourself are
the products built for somebody like you
to wear Lululemon yeah it had to work
for me so ok so you go super limit 100%
ok but I are really reducing at the
beginning of like 1998 to 2002 the yogi
men were quite small and slight right so
so but that morph to really quickly and
and what I’m saying is really we just
Lula manned just had to make masculine
stuff but it made the mistake of it kept
hiring fashion designers from I’d call
the east coast of the US who didn’t have
the content like the West Coast makes
things functional and then makes them
beautiful where the East Coast makes the
beautiful and then makes a fun price to
make them look out like that’s it’s a
whole different distinct interesting
interesting so this means now next time
I walk past Lululemon I have to go
inside that’s what you’re saying after
going see if I can find something
because these ripped jeans I mean you
just call that my ripped jeans you’re
like these guys are wearing ripped
clothes you know going out Paul we got
to stop by Lululemon and find some
tights for you well I don’t think
actually people even wear jeans anymore
like I think it’s it’s we’ve killed it
in the woman woman’s business and you
see VF Corporation trying to sell their
jeans business begin nobody wants to buy
that
well the apparel business itself is so
competitive because how fast things
change and if you don’t change with the
time just it’s not a thing that one
thing lasts a long time so you have to
always be adapting constantly would you
agree with that or no I think that’s
that’s two different businesses again
that’s the fashion of Zara hmm that’s
what I’m talking about that’s I you know
it’s like we’re on the end of like
technical like like technical advances
occur every year and and again we’re I’m
you know I think the future of athletic
apparel I look I look at people in the
Olympics and I go that is the most
functional apparel there is you know
it’s total like rat it’s tight under the
armpits it’s tight in the garage I mean
once you’ve been in something like that
everything else feels uncomfortable even
but you know our don’t only our social
norms in North America that tells us
it’s not if you go into Europe you see
men for years have been wearing you know
like RIT and running you know for you
know wear speedos they don’t have any
problem like you know like you well you
know I mean maybe you know for your
Iranian it’s they’re like they don’t
even have the context that you know that
they have from this kind of religious
social moral thing in North America so
what is the future though I mean you
know you talked to you on Moscone llamas
talks about the future on where we’re
going towards and what he thinks is
gonna happen and you you are 5-7 years
ahead what’s really gonna have our we’re
gonna have like smart clothes like is it
gonna be smart technical app you know
athletic gear or were we going yeah I
don’t believe in all the wires and not
slow being you see now I think it
it’s making clothing very uncomfortable
it’s heavy it’s it’s it’s kind of get
that kind of defeats the purpose of kind
of wearing clothing that feels naked I
do feel it’s gonna be like room I think
it’s gonna give me a complete suit top
to bottom it’s gonna say actual fabric
will be temperature control it will
handle stink I think you can see you
know the Apple watch getting bigger but
I think it’s gonna be a full Apple watch
here with your implants here I think the
the phone or whatever we call it will do
will prick into our skin for blood and
moisture and salt they will it will
compare that against big data it will
send that to you know our doctors only
when we are you know what I mean
actually the big data just well well
tell us you know whether we need to
check in with a doctor or not but I also
think you know from a fashion point of
view there’s going to be a people won’t
be designing clothing so much as they’ll
be designing apps and you’ll go on an
app and kind of pick out a design that
you want you’re going to turn to handy
so buy clothes I think we’re going dude
that’s amazing
yeah hundred one hundred percent we have
to go there we have to go there well if
you look over like a period of time when
people dressed in England when it was
cold and no one was athletic and nobody
sweat and and you know it was like all
the clothing and the jackets and
everything the wall and everything and
you look from that time till now and you
look at how how much technical clothing
has influenced general clothing and you
go at another 20 years I mean we’re not
that far from it so you think people
gonna be receptive to the whole ship
going into the body yeah I think it’ll
just be a prick I think it’ll be so it’s
they’re gonna track me like where I’m at
is it gonna be like a tracking system to
them and that’s your phone that’s a
different thing than I think what I’m
talking about about health and fitness
and I also fully believe in the 3d
printing of food and and I think
everybody’s going to be fit 20 years
from now I don’t think that I don’t
think there’s going to be any such thing
as people that are overweight or have
issues really yeah really yeah that you
know just so maybe because for us Fitbit
like I look at this year right we had
everybody at our home office all of us
on put fit
next thing no people are losing 10
pounds in a month 15 months in a month
one of the things I talk about in our
company is the fact that visionaries
speak a language that very few people
speak right and some companies instill a
certain culture that you can’t teach
that language to somebody you can’t just
come to the Home Office or the company
or certain culture and speak that right
off the bat it’s like you and I deciding
to go to you know Portugal and speaking
Portuguese if we don’t know it we’re now
gonna be able to speak that language did
you have a certain language that you
spoke as a visionary and a founder
yourself and if you did what was it and
whatever it was how did you transfer it
to me as when your employees your team
members again I’ve read probably a
thousand books in the year in 1997 and
out of those
I’m sorry hundred books out of the
hundred books there were five things
that kind of happened that I went oh
these are kind of encompass all the
other 95 and so one of them was good to
great by Collins the goal by Rosenblatt
a psychology of achievement it’s a it’s
an audio by Brian Tracy good book great
book yeah really we’ve had Brian Tracy
before yes and the Landmark Forum which
for me you went to the line Locke well
yes sure sure and I phenomenal from
learning like the definition of
integrity why I complain how I
communicate how I create they’re really
transformational with those you know
five things it was like oh and seven
Habits Highly Effective People we
created like about thirty terms and
definitions from those and that’s what
we that’s what you used to communicate
in the company so by wind dates
conditions of satisfaction you know what
is you know you can complain twice but
then you have to take action what is
action every one we did had one
definition of integrity because there’s
actually a pretty funny thing everyone
thinks they have integrity but everyone
has a different definition of and that’s
right so for that so there’s no
integrity so I think a company has to
define integrity and for Lou Lemon it
was doing what we say we were going to
do when we say we will do it in how was
it it was expected to be done and if we
can’t get it done then we have to go
back and tell everyone immediately and
and fix fix the issue that we
so did you constantly talk about this
over and over and over again and your
staff meetings employees where’s this
stuff all over the place yeah it well I
documented it and you know but of course
when you bring in new executives from
the outside they have their own like
yeah yeah yeah I got your culture yeah
yeah yeah and they’re really good at
interviews and they’re going yeah we
yeah we believe what you’re saying but
they don’t really do it and I do it
early wasn’t aware of that kind of thing
at the time our meetings started to show
up five minutes late then ten minutes
late twenty people would be waiting and
we never did that before meetings almost
started directly on time where you’d
almost be fired because if a creative
meeting starts five minutes late then
the people in the meeting think oh I can
get production can come in fly it you
know like five days late if it’s missing
you miss five to ten days of a winter
season then you miss those days to sell
so then you got to put stuff on discount
yeah then your margins drop then your
sales staff doesn’t want to be you know
your quality sales staff doesn’t want to
be with the company that discounts so
they leave so then you get you know I’d
say a lower quality of people and then
they have higher turnover so then your
training costs are more then your you
know the whole it’s just a spiral down
so integrity
it’s a mountain that can never be you
know you can never get to the top of it
but you got to have a standard will you
fire fast type of a leader or know if
you notice somebody doesn’t fit the
culture where you fire faster you get
people you know two three four chances
yeah I think I would be an opening for a
person changing for sure but at a
certain point it has to be know this
person is wrong so get it right before
you hire them even so you know it’s not
gonna fit or cuz you know how many times
you hire somebody just doesn’t fit
culturally I’ve made that mistake I mean
I made that mistake with my board of
directors and I hate you know with who
we brought in and and I made that
mistake with you know a CEO but you know
that CEO worked great for a couple years
and that’s not so but you’re right
firing fast the minute that you know I
kind of caught her in a couple of like
lies then okay that doesn’t matter about
anything else she’s lying about a
thousand other things in the company and
it’s bad for the culture it’s bad for
the future
the company we have to get rid of that
person now so lies compromised loose
hips you had with it it’s that’s a
that’s a terms for termination right
there yeah and I think that that because
that never stopped and the Board of
Directors never got rid of that person
with the lies then then that then it
becomes okay to lie in the company and
that why never stop perpetuating and the
board even up until the AGM unbelievable
let me ask you do you have all of this
stuff from the five books in 1997 that
impacted the Landmark Forum the Stefan
Stephen Covey and psychology do you have
that on a PDF which you would give to
you guys or no is that available is that
something that’s um if it’s not in the
book it’s you can go to my website
that’s kind of an appendix to the book
and you can find that at the linguist
it’s called the linguistic abstractions
so the terms and definitions perfect so
this is what we’re gonna do this is what
we’re gonna do just for that part we are
gonna leave that link below as well for
what he talked about in 1997 let’s make
sure to do that as far as the book goes
to finish it up one if you could speak a
little bit about the book what could you
say about this book here well it’s a
book about incredible people a good
culture that was really based on
self-development of people giving before
expectation everyone wins
it was a it was the antithesis of
everything that Yoga is and how to put
the love of yoga into business and that
that that love could actually make more
profits than an ordinary business that
was built on just metrics so you know
usually we’ll do interviews and its
value tainment
which is it’ll be some entertainment and
it’ll be some value right just so you
know for me I have gotten value from
sitting next you non-stop from beginning
to the end so in my brain I’ve taken 20
30 pages of notes you know that I’m
gonna go back and watch this and take a
bunch of notes myself absolutely
incredible of a sit down here for some
of you watching like for me if I’m on
your side and I watch something like
this I can’t I’m rewatching this myself
and taking notes because of how many
things I could apply to my business to
help you core your business to the next
level you think this is just an
interview we haven’t even gotten
fully in the book the link to the book
is gonna be below make sure you click on
a link to go buy the book first person
that tweets us okay maybe the best
commentary on which your takeaway was
from this interview the first person
sends a tweet best commentary what you
got out of the interview will send a
signed copy over to you but you got a
tweet my handle which is right here as
well as right here and the send us a
tweet on what you took away from this
interview with chip founder of Lulu or
lemon thank you so much I appreciate you
truly thank you so much perfect this was great thank you
if they’re happy they’re the wrong
creative Persaud the minute a creative
person has created something they’re
unhappy with it do you think it’s almost
mathematically impossible for a founder
of a company to be happy with any CEO in
a public board the number one job that
they have is to have a great CEO they’re
number two job is to have a pipelining
for that CEO what I’m really looking for
is I’m looking for leaders that can
create other leaders I couldn’t prove
the future and it’s so easy for metric
people to prove the past I also fully
believe in the 3d printing of food and
and I think everybody’s going to be fit
20 years from now what’s really gonna
have are we gonna have like smart
clothes like is there gonna be smart
so today we’re sitting with an
entrepreneur but for some of you guys
that want to know maybe well let me see
what the data the stats are chip Wilson
founder of Lululemon pants which now is
not just pants they went from being a
small business to not being a twelve
billion dollar business give or take the
men sitting to my left your right got a
net worth of roughly 3.8 billion but
who’s counting and a one number I’m so
curious about getting to know about him
he’s got a new book I will talk about
here in a minute so when they started
Lululemon they were one person one
percent of their customers were men they
went from 1% in 1998 to 30% in 2018 how
do you do that I’m so curious to find
out more about how the CEO and founder
chip Wilson did it so with that being
said sorry Patrick it’s great to be with
you thanks for today
cool for some of you that don’t know
when chip and I were talking for a few
weeks about wanting to do this interview
we were thinking about doing in our
speedos today but we thought it was
inappropriate maybe you’d be
uncomfortable and that is an inside joke
because one thing about chips work
environment is if he had it his way why
don’t you tell the rest of us if you had
it your way what would you were three
pieces of you know maybe Armani suit or
what would it look like I mean I guess
from living a lifetime as a competitive
swimmer you know when I was young it’s
funny how I’m 63 years old and still
defined myself as a competitive swimmer
but you know living that life and it
speedo was you know just the most
comfortable thing ever and I and I think
the cold water and swimming always kind
of cooled me down so when I actually
went to put clothes on it was
exceedingly uncomfortable and I felt I
was always sweating so the speedo felt
where when our life really happened for
me
so how wild is that you like to have the
least amount of clothes on but your
business is to put clothes on people
right that’s that’s a pretty interesting
dynamic yeah but it was the context of
knowing that that’s how clothes all
clothing should fit like you should be
naked you shouldn’t ever think about
your clothing I like that especially in
athletics you want to win that event you
shouldn’t have to think about what
you’re wearing so is that like a are you
thinking about coming up with a new
league like new competitive sports type
of thing is that a next project after
Lululemon or is that just an idea no
that’s just the design concept so New
York Times don’t write about it and say
he said he’s gonna do something like
that so look let’s get into it and
before talking business one of the
things I’m always curious about is a
person like you you’ve made it to the
top everybody’s looking at you saying
well one day I’d love to have a story
like yours we have a lot of young
entrepreneurs who follow value Tim a lot
of executives and people that are on
business or somewhere around you know a
million at the low revenue upwards of
100 million dollars per year and they
want to find out how to scale their
business but prior to going there your
personality is very different than Mark
Cuban’s personality but your net worth
is slightly more than his this is not a
dynamic you’re loud you’re this you’re
very subtle very calm very your
temperament is an interesting
temperament that you have if I was in
high school with you we’re in 10th grade
right we’re best friends we hang out
together whose chip chip would have been
an athlete the competitive swimmer who
really would like to play football but
almost too good a competitive swimmer to
quit to play football
recognizing I’m getting too big to swim
so in other words I can do that I can
only do Sprint’s I can’t do long
distance I’m a mediocre student but I
live for athletics so the it seems like
the only reason I’m going to school is
phys ed for you at that yeah yeah okay
my dad was one of those original hippies
you know the organic food and the self
development Wow you know living in the
Esalen Institute in California during
the ass
here in the 70s and so I was a little
bit of a function of that in the inquiry
about it but definitely thought my dad
was very weird at the time and and now
of course I see almost everything he
told me actually he’s come to fruition
and life actually is about good food and
knowing yourself in that amazing yeah so
now you have a hippie as a dad but
you’re extremely competitive how does
that happen
what what caused that was it just your
DNA or was your house a house of let’s
play Monopoly and see who wins let’s
play cards and see yeah let’s play
backgammon and see who wins where did
that competitive fire come to chip or
was it just part of your DNA yeah I
think is part of DNA it doesn’t mean it
has to be there forever in life
you know I actually think Lululemon was
built on not competitive actually for
everyone winning which was far different
than the other athletic companies so it
took me 40 years to get to that point
and you know for me to win everyone has
to win for you to win everyone has to
win yeah so the the will you ever an
extremely super competitive guy that
maybe you push some people away from you
or there was never that part of you was
just an internal composed type of a
competitor no I definitely I wanted to
win I mean there was that I think it’s
the testosterone as a kid but as a child
but I think there’s a time when you
realize okay well I have a choice I can
compete to win or I can that’s a good
question why did I change I change
because winning only got me a win a
small wins but actually being inclusive
and bringing everyone in I started to
see that could bring me a bigger win so
to you competitiveness does it mean that
you’re a solo competitor I know you were
swimmer but are you somebody that also
follows team sports not anymore
I’m only because I don’t like the whole
drugs and the the media excitement about
it seems like that my love of the pure
sport has gone which is probably why I
love rugby more than anything else right
now the rugby sevens I think that are
being played in Hong Kong and Vancouver
around its that English gentlemanly
sport where you kind of give it all and
you can like crack a guy’s head but he’s
still your best friend
was there a tipping point where that
shift was made on your mind or no like
like for instance when Lululemon first
got started was the chippy side of you
still there because I mean your
manifesto when you wrote it that sounds
like a pretty competitive guys manifesto
you said one day we would like to make
Pepsi and coca-cola with cigarettes is
today great marketing I think it’s a
terrible product something like that
yeah Coke and Pepsi are the tobacco of
the future great marketing terrible
product but really where is coming from
as I felt like I didn’t care so much
about making money
but I Lululemon it was a platform of
social health I see what you’re saying I
totally feel that by the way well I
totally feel that you know how you get
an athlete that lasts a long time in the
league and and you kind of said well
look at the perfect LeBron James he’s
got the great body but this guy’s got
the discipline to condition himself and
he gets along with people etc etc but
you come across like a guy extremely
capable he pays attention to numbers
creative but at the same time people
actually like working with this guy you
got a chip beside there you don’t mind
having a tough conversation well you’re
still somebody that’s you’re likable
enough where people say I want to work
where I want to be around a guy like
this so very it you could be called an
anomaly to some people as a seal but
that’s a whole different conversation we
could have so okay so you’re an athlete
you know you come out I think you
started a couple other businesses before
Lululemon actually happened what was it
you were doing prior to Lululemon we
were led to just you know saying well
I’m we when we start a new business
called Lululemon well I fell into the
surf business by mistake I was living in
Canada no competition Quicksilver and
Billabong had just come from Australia
in the California Opie was here it was
just that the fledgling start of that my
mom was a sore I was a big guy clothing
was very tight at that time very
uncomfortable I kind of took the concept
to Canada and because I was such a big
guy I started making and there was no
real lycra at the time that I knew of
outside of speedos that I I started
making larger longer shorts for men I
went into that business and then as that
became a commodity business neither was
doing from 0 to 500 companies to much
product toph to few consumers then I
morphed into skateboarding
same thing happened and morphed into
snowboarding then when that became a
quantity product I was just in the right
place at the right time
sell to a public company got some money
could sit back and call now what and and
that’s when you said let’s try to do
Lululemon yeah and I dolls had this
thing where ice if I saw three things in
a very short amount of time I knew it
was something that was going to happen
hundred percent so I kind of walked by a
telephone post and there was a little
sign there for a yoga class which I’d
never seen before I’m in a coffee shop
and I hear two women talk about a healer
class and I go and read the newspaper
and there’s an article about yoga and I
went this is going to happen it says on
the type person that looks for that kind
of thing my success seems to have been
like just being five to seven years
ahead of the normal consumer trend what
did a name come from by the way yeah
when I had West Beach which was my
former West Beach snowboard I had a
skateboard brand I had called homeless
homeless homeless yeah so I was I was
making it I was selling to Europe in
Japan and and then I went to register
the brand cuz I woke a this is actually
gonna go but I couldn’t register
homeless because hom is French for male
and there were it was would have been
impossible to trademarks snowboarding
was going straight up and skateboarding
was like I said becoming a commodity
product so I went I’m not gonna do
homeless anymore I’m not gonna do it so
I told everybody and that year I was
over in Japan and I showing them the
snowboard line and after I do it they
turned to me and they go mr. chips and
we’re homeless
I said I told you guys I’m not doing it
and and I told him the reasons why again
and next year the same thing show them
the snowboard line mr. chips and we’re
homeless told me the same thing and you
got to get at that time it was kind of
like the Japanese yen was the highest
ever they were buying all of America
Pebble Beach the would yours is 97 9
yeah 95 94 94 6 something in there so
they phoned me up a couple months later
and they said mr. chips an we want to
buy name homeless from you and I went
and so I that I’m selling complete air
because I’m not making it anymore I
don’t own the trademarks to it
and I’m desperate for money
so so I gave them a price I thought was
absolutely ridiculous they said yes and
I went oh you know that’s easiest money
I ever made so I thought well why did
they like that name so much and I went
oh you know like the job there’s big
five big Japanese trading firms and they
are all starting to make clothing with
American sounding names but I think for
the twenty year old or the young
teenager they knew that it was more an
authentic North American name if it had
an L in it because the L doesn’t exist
in the Japanese language I started to
think of alliterations and I went this
time if I ever have another company I’m
gonna put three L’s in it and if I
consulted Japanese I’ll get three times
as much of course it was all in my
subconscious I think so then what did
you put together my how did Loulou come
and just just I don’t know one day in it
it’s especially with the word lemon at
that time because it was very well
connected to Detroit poor quality right
there of course so actually it was maybe
just on the precipice of that being a
name which could be used again and
putting Lula and lemon together seemed
to be like a super fresh name so it’s
like a formula you literally were
looking for a name with three L’s in it
right Lululemon
like when you started it did you think
it was gonna turn into what it is today
was there a vision that this is
something everybody needs to use because
I had seen what had happened the surf
skate snowboard industry when I caught
into it and how quickly it grew my first
yoga class was those six people and and
within a month it was 30 people that was
faster than I’d seen in the surf skate
snowboard business but I had no idea it
would be as big as it was but I knew I
was in it first I knew I had a new
business model of eliminating the
wholesale person in the middle and I
knew I was probably one of the only
people in the world that was really
thinking of technical clothing outside
of Mountain gear because that come from
the snowboard industry and now you know
to think of like being in the gym and
actually thinking about that in the same
kind of form as as mountain survival
clothing was an interesting context you
seemed very methodical have you read the
book blue ocean strategy
yes but Blanc
a long time ago I read a hundred books a
year so I it gets lost in in what one
what the information comes from what it
almost sounds like that’s what you did
you had a blue ocean I mean it almost
seems like we you you came out and you
know you had a blue ocean but who came
after you that’s would you say would you
put as a competitor of Lululemon well I
probably the closest that came was
Athleta they started off an online and
then the gap bought them yeah I’d say
that’s as close as it came of course
everyone’s put more into and you know
created an aura of competition around
Lululemon which leg Lululemon definitely
had the chance to move out of that
mm-hmm I mean you know we were seven
years ahead of anybody and then you know
we had the chance in poly 210 to really
own the whole space of mindfulness the
same way that Lululemon did for yoga but
you know a company gets big you get
people that don’t want to change I’d
kind of lost my voting power on the
board to be able to go no this is the
future I couldn’t prove the future and
it’s so easy for metric people to prove
the past so and they get very nervous
about investing in the future especially
if there’s if they’re a public company
and they’re really concerned with
quarterly results and so what why don’t
we transition with that because I know
you mentioned a gap your new book called
little black stretchy pants the cover is
an incredible cover you have this hole
and by the way I mean how you talk about
you know the fact that when you made
these pants one of the things about the
woman is the fact that they’re
uncomfortable when they wear their pants
that you know they’re just worried that
yoga but they don’t want to wear in the
streets because athleisure there’s a
different word the whole camel toe goes
away and you were thinking about
designing it in a way where people get
comfortable and they go in the streets
and sport it but you know when you’re
talking about some of the creativity
that goes away in the business would you
say some of that was when you brought in
Christine day because in the book you
talked about Christine day the existing
CEO at the time that you had a bit of a
direct conversation with can you walk me
a little bit through what happened there
we were a company that when I had three
kids under the age of two when I kind of
decided I was kind of like I mean kids
any age who yes so it was kind of like
blue
was a cash cow didn’t need money but I
needed advice and I wanted to you know
to transition and my job as an
entrepreneur I thought from the book the
e-myth was always to move myself out of
technical like no no move myself out of
day-to-day operations and get above so I
could like be that seven years in the
future
christine day was a great sea you know
CEO for the first couple of years but
then it would became obvious to me that
there’s a real difference between what a
CEO is and what a chief operating
officer is the CEO has to keep the
culture in the vision I think that’s
their number one job to me the CEO o is
somebody who runs the company and runs
the operation then metrics so what
became clear to me after after a while
was that I had an operator metrics CEO
so there’s an obvious clash because I’m
looking for things seven years in the
future in position the company seven
years in the future and a metric CEO
will want to be you know provide the
numbers for Wall Street that quarter
when that happens and there bonused
that way then they’re going to operate
in a short-term fashion and the easiest
way to do that especially with a great
brand like Lululemon you just lower the
expenses in other words the number the
green not let the great kind of people
you have you had a great level of
quality you have really easy to cut down
for a couple years raise the prices it
looks like the seals a genius when I
look at it and I go those are called bad
profits in the long run that’s gonna
kill you which is except exactly what
happened at Lululemon so so let me ask
you so CEO and CEO role of a CEO is
purely operational on a daily basis to
you so what is the role of a CMO I know
it’s marketing but is it pretty specific
to you on how you gauge because you seem
like you’re pretty meticulous on what
you expect from each role and define
each role what do you look at a CMO or a
president is the president different
Dennis iam actually curious to know what
you think about that well I think a lot
of these when you’re talking about
president CEO CEO a lot of those are
like indicating that that person’s next
in
I don’t know where president fits in
because I’ve never really had a
president I’ve had the CEO but if you
put someone CEO oh it’s really like
saying okay if if the CEO got hit by a
bus the CEO is in there and it’s a it’s
an indication to the public market that
you’ve got somebody ready and in place
ready you know to step into that
position because the in a public board
the number one job that they have is to
have a great CEO they’re number two job
is to have a pipeline for that CEO Wow
so no one who’s gonna replace them sure
and what is that typical timeline is
there a set timeline or not necessarily
well it really depends on who your CEO
is I mean in most cases a CEO will last
like four to five years so and it’s
really on my belief that the CEO all
CEOs number one job from the book good
to great a number five liter is
developed someone who’s better than and
under them such that whenever they leave
actually the company runs better that’s
to me as a level five CEO let me ask you
we did Christine they follow you as a
CEO is that one you stepped down as a
chairman and CEO and then she came or
had you already had other CEOs after you
before bringing Christine day in yeah I
was CEO and then when we went public I
became chairman and we hired a CEO who
worked for Reebok Bob mares was his name
and he did a great job helping us with
our production because that was probably
our bald neck at the time he was still
an East Coast kind of executive and
wasn’t quite right for us but he was
kind of a what I’d call a pretty face
for going public in other words they’re
saying the people that are going that
are investing when you go public they’ve
got a thousand companies to look at so
they want to know that there’s somebody
in there that’s kind of done it before
or kind of been in a public company kind
of understands it it’s kind of like they
need a babysitter or some it’s part of
their due diligence do you think it’s
almost mathematically impossible for a
founder of a company to be happy with
any CEO he or she hires
because as a founder you’re the
heartbeat right and so to you everything
is like do you know what we’ve put into
this do you know what this logo means do
you know what the stories behind the
system do you know behind the culture of
this do you know why we look at vision
first do you think it’s difficult for a
founder and a visionary like yourself to
have anybody that follows you and say
I’m happy with the seal well I think
specifically if the visionary founder
got more of a creative mind like I do
any great creative person is never happy
if they’re happy they’re the wrong
creative personality the minute a
creative person has created something
they’re unhappy with it I mean really
you know and they should be so the my
job then is to like if okay great I’m a
creative person and I’m so I’m an
analytical creative person so my job
then is to surround myself with
structural social people so in any kind
of dynamics there has to be that balance
so if I’m that as I knew I was a you
know visionary creative analytical
person then my needed my CEO to be the
very office at which which in in almost
all cases they have been and I think
that that system worked out beautiful
until it didn’t I mean the the real
story about that is that I lost my
control of the board
and I think for anybody going to get
private equity and then to go public
right when you go to get Google with
private equity you’ve got to know what
your board of directors and the
governance is gonna look like when your
public not when you’re just taking on
private equity money because that’s
where really all the power lays is when
the entrepreneur first sells their
company so I didn’t do that it’s my
fault you know I I have I lost control
of the board that when you sold 48% of
the steaks is that what you’re saying
that event was kind of how he exchanged
yeah which was great it was long at all
that aw that was all per right but I
just didn’t see the long-term
ramifications of not being digging in
and finding out what the governance
structure was gonna be when we went
public naturally when you go public and
this is like really really fascinating
you end up Ida had no idea
that we needed more board of directors
than we already had you know I get told
like a month before I’m a very in the
depth creative person so it’s not like
I’ve gone out and have been to harbor of
heaven that Kannamma scree but that
didn’t mean I knew somebody that could
be on the public board of directors in
the United States Board of Directors my
board that I had elected more people
because you’ve got to have three people
on the governance three people on the
audit and three people on the the
Compensation Committee just the nature
of who wants to be on a board the
mindset of that person is not
necessarily a creative person in other
words almost the the way the boards are
set up kills a creative person
it’s very metric driven it’s very
by-the-book
the litigation system in the United
States is phenomenal so everything
nothing can kind of get documented
everything can kind of get talked about
there’s no real love or caring about the
non metrics of innovation culture brand
because you can never get sued for it so
the Board of Directors doesn’t really
care a creative founder who’s that’s
their that’s what they really bring to
the morning directors loses their power
because what they say is one versus
almost eight other people when that
happened to hat what did you do you know
when a creative person loses the ability
to keep being creative because you’re
being driven by logical people how did
you handle that I didn’t really know
what was happening I felt like like we
had these directors that were coming to
our company because they went man
Lululemon is like creating the number
one metrics in the world in apparel I
mean it was off the charts and I thought
that they would want to come to the come
be to learn why that was because
directors don’t to a great extent don’t
really need the job most of them are
quite wealthy and they’re trying to give
back and I really honor that after a
while that that kind of gets lost non
creative people can’t handle the unknown
that creative people bring into the
process I always believe in this thing
the law of attraction and I think that
they want more people like them
or surrounded them in the board like
them not like you yeah right and I also
want a CEO like that because they know
how to talk to that CEO do you think
it’s almost like company starts you are
the most important person in a company
because you’re the creative visionary
found the right and as a company starts
going past the maturity phase it’s
almost like the board of directors the
directors the money people want to get
rid of you because you’re almost getting
in the way of them increasing the data
they expect or so they can make the most
on their money and return do you think
it’s almost like you’re getting in the
way as a creative founder do you think
they look at it that way I think they do
I think they’re but they don’t know that
they think that way that’s the
interesting it’s a very subconscious
thing but I know they’re smart people
and I know they’ve been in big
businesses and I know that they you know
that whatever business they were in they
knew that there had to be a right
balance between creative and analytic or
metric and you know a metric over here
yep safety security don’t rock the boat
be careful versus you know the the
creative person who’s out on this end so
you’ve got to have both these and it’s a
teeter-totter and you gotta balance
sometimes it goes up and down up and
down
interesting so said then I have a
follow-up question for someone like you
say say I’m your protege I look up to
you and you’ve chosen to mentor me for
no reason just to want to mentor me
right and I’m coming to you and I’m
speaking to you and you say Pat you’re a
little too competitive and like but you
understand shape you know we’re gonna
build that everybody needs to have this
this is just amazing but Pat I’m just
telling you’re a little too competitive
your edges too much your edges too this
right so for me I’ll come and say well
chip where were you when you were my age
right what were you thinking about when
you were my age and then you’re gonna
come back and say but you don’t
understand Pat it’s too much or you
gonna drive people away by being this
competitive so do you think it’s almost
similar like when I asked and I said how
competitive are you I’m very competitive
it I had to learn how to collaborate and
bring people together and rather making
it about the team do you think this is a
very common trend that happens I have my
own board and my board these are people
that have made money these are people
that have done fairly well for
themselves so they’re not coming in
because they’re just an advisory board
and uncle that makes 600 grand that’s
doing you a favor these are pee
that I made 200 million 100 million 50
million they’ve done well for themselves
so they look at it as an x-factor right
do you think the longer you’re in
business it becomes more logical and the
emotional side goes away would you say
there was an element of paranoia with
you or no you were pretty free-spirited
let’s trust everybody good eyes
definitely trust everybody
I think Wow give before expectation and
return I think if I had somebody who is
that competitive I would probably let
them go or I would coach them what I’m
really looking for is I’m looking for
leaders that can create other leaders of
course so in other words if people
aren’t gonna look up to that competitive
shut it and go that’s somebody I can
learn from and that I can move to the
next level from and where everyone’s
inclusive and everyone wins in it then
then it probably wouldn’t be the right
culture for Lululemon got it and that’s
one of the reasons why when you had a
chance to but maybe it is I don’t know
maybe you can correct me with this where
you almost you were twice the size of a
price point of a Under Armour and you
sat with a plank I believe and you guys
talked about doing a deal together but
you said the company was a little too
over the edge I don’t know what word you
use but yeah and that all gets overblown
I didn’t ever talk to Kevin Plank okay
that’s what the article was written that
you sat down and he spoke to him
whatever if that was an article that was
a media person creating a story in order
to sell sensationalism in order to sell
marketing clicks in order to pay their
mortgage and their kids let’s to be
clear on that
no the only statement I made is that you
know I went you know in my own mind I
went down we talked and I went well
wouldn’t it be neat if we could put this
great men’s coming together with this
great woman’s clear you actually saw it
obvious I mean Nike was the big the big
not you know we were both good at
opposite ends of that so it made sense
to like think about it it would be
stupid of me not to like contemplate
that that would be a good move but this
that the cultures were just too diverse
one ultra male win at all costs and
Lululemon was everyone wins it almost
sounds like because I know in the book
you talk a lot about the fact that
there’s three different types of women
and one is a super woman the other one
is a balance woman and
and power power woman can you can you
talk a little bit about on that because
I mean you Thomas September 28 32 years
old that’s very specific you know it’s
sort of target mark or a target market
you got very specific on who was the
ideal target market for you and it’s
detailed owns a cat it’s thinking about
possibly getting married but not yet its
athletic takes care of her body you were
that detailed about who your customer
was that’s incredible I believe as a to
start a company you’ve got to know the
real subconscious of the customer that’s
buying it and for me that 32 year old
was our iconic like that was our I don’t
Tiger Woods leave on James whatever you
want it to be we didn’t have to go out
and buy you know buy you know big money
sponsorship artists was just to make
sure that that 32 year old loved
everything that we did it’s interesting
because everything we do is segment it
every time we go on the computer
anything we say it’s all segments and so
in branding then I had to figure out
well who is our customer and so then
that’s when I came up with just like I’m
sorry just like Gen X Gen Y you know
that type of thing I came up with
superwoman was a certain age a certain
mindset and that was the mother of these
super girls that were these highly
educated daughters of these power woman
they created a whole new world that had
never existed before and that was a
really a 24 to 32 year old woman that
was highly educated professional with no
children owned a condo and very fit
traveled the world because before that
age in 1998 you know you could say all
women got you know had babies at 24 and
left the workforce so it was a major
shift in the way the world occurred and
I was putting language to what I saw in
reality so did you like I want to know
the process because for me I’m in the
financial industry so who’s your ideal
client 27 to 35 married with kids you
know ambitious certain Drive that they
have we have certain things that we look
at but for you what was your processing
of
coming up with who will be the perfect
ideal candidate for you was it research
was it you sitting out and thinking
about did you collaborate with other
people on your board or your home office
or your marketing team how did you come
out come up with that number in Africa I
know so much charity money was moving in
there because the goal was to educate
woman because everyone knew of a better
educated woman will wait longer to have
children and have fewer children so when
I woke up one day and I saw something in
the paper that said 60% of the graduates
at a university or woman like in 1998 I
knew there was a massive change in the
world and maybe I was the first person
to see it where really I think that was
the inflection point for woman being
more powerful than men but it’s 20 years
ago then you gotta gotta go okay if
these girls are now 22 years old
what are they gonna grow into like
what’s gonna happen well they are they
are gonna have condos they are gonna be
well-dressed they’re gonna have money
twenty eight year old woman before that
didn’t have any money because they had
two kids and their husband was out
working and they were struggling on a
mortgage and there was nothing there but
the minute that these women are still
single and they’re still just growing
their career and rather than leaving the
workforce at 24 and now they’re 28 30 32
making not this like thirty thousand
year but 80 90 hundred thousand there’s
a lot of disposable income there so then
I went okay
I knew yoga was coming I knew there was
a lot of other things kind of put in
place and I knew that there was now the
ability to buy a very very high quality
athletic product that had never been
made before so that that was your
process and on how you came out with it
so do you have a system on how you make
decisions like in your mind is there a
system that you have on how you make any
kind of a decision I know one of my my
biggest issues and other people may be
other entrepreneurs will find this is
again being a creative person being five
to seven years in the future almost
everything I think is going to happen is
it’s almost like a feeling because it’s
a million touch points not any one
specific thing and I say that you know
six percent of women out of university
were
graduates but that was like that took me
over the edge of probably a thousand
different touch points so that gal I had
internally but I didn’t know how to
express expressing you know like a color
to a blind person is like very difficult
and it’s the same kind of thing and my
creative creative people inside a
company have to be protected because
sometimes they’re wrong
and when they’re go wrong then the
metric people just love to go oh I knew
you’d be wrong of course I’m gonna be
wrong every now and again but that gives
me the ability to jump in take control
put parameters around the creative
person and the creativity never comes
back and I’d say this is the biggest
downfall of American public companies
interesting not knowing how to nurture
the creative minds and allowing data to
crush the creatives machine of coming up
with the next ideas that is that kind of
what you’re saying right my statement
would be you have to have a seal that
understands creative so well that they
can protect creative from the metric
finance machine that is usually they’re
usually better spoken they’re usually
better educated they can prove their
data because they have metrics from the
past where when the Mets won the
creative person does something wrong are
you know it doesn’t work out they can
then they have to start proving the
future and if you have eight of nine
people on your board of directors and
you’re sitting there they’re gonna go
yeah we’ll go with this person that can
prove so you would say somebody like you
is living in a future truth sure sure
honey use a trigger so you’re the future
truth gal you’re sure sure
unbelievable that’s a that’s an
interesting we have so so what do you do
with that is it kind of like a politics
where it’s like Democrats and
Republicans they both kind of need each
other to keep it balanced or do you kind
of have to separate create a fully
formal logic and don’t let them clash
because if you’re a creative founder you
have no choice but to sit in that
boardroom when you’re a chairman of the
board and not allowed these guys to tell
you what what happened last quarter well
what’s going on based on your numbers
you did three quarters ago or two years
ago it looks like this is what’s gonna
happen what do you do to make sure you
don’t have your creative guys heart be
broken at least you know their ideas be
broken both sides have to
appreciate each other and I the great
analogy is just getting married man men
and women are not supposed to be alike
on any kind of level they I mean there’s
some crossover but they have an end
vision and an end goal and in my mind
that’s all was we want to raise great
children that are productive in the
world and that we love and they we love
them right we want to be great
grandparents that’s the end goal so you
have these two people that almost can
look at life entirely different ways and
even within that you can have one metric
and one creative person you can have one
one nurse one engineer do you know what
I mean it’s all over the place but these
people because they have a common end
goal they know they need each other to
get there and it’s a synergy thing one
plus one equals three but if you just
have a metric board then it’s one just
have a bunch of creative people it’s
just one I mean that has to that that’s
the big opening I’m trying to really
well one of ten big old things I’m
trying to say in my book so you know one
of the questions I asked the earlier
that I’d like to bring up is you know so
many times a company has a certain
direction they’ve gone product wise
hypothetically like maybe you know some
companies say we’re gonna go low-income
we’re gonna go middle America we’re
gonna go upper-class we’re gonna go
affluent because we’re Goldman Sachs and
you have to come up with a minimum of 10
million and then you change a philosophy
right
you went from 1% men 99% woman now
you’re 30% men 70% women that’s not an
easy thing to do what how did you guys
make that big of a transition from 1 to
30 well actually I think it’s not good
enough I think it’s actually one of the
big feelings of Lululemon and in a
missed opportunity I would call it
definitely when we started off in yoga
there was most men were quite slight if
I can put it that way and what I’m not
effeminate but slight because they were
in such a good shape but they were
usually on the small end of things and
really in hot yoga at that time all you
wore I mean really a lot of the men that
came were actually did wear speedos and
then we started making you know kind of
short kind of shorts but it wasn’t like
men needed a lot of clothing and was
so that was the genesis of where we came
from and then woman just because nobody
else was doing woman’s beautiful
athletic clothing that was technical we
really the market was so big we couldn’t
really like build on the men’s that much
of course I come from men’s surf skate
snowboarding business that was the whole
thing so I was quite cognizant that the
future was there and there was a time to
do it probably around 2008 you could
start to see the inflection point where
all these women were looking so good
coming into the gym and men like kind of
had to step up the plate you know it was
kind of like wow I can’t really like
this baggy holy like gray styles I
haven’t washed in three weeks like no
you know like I got a you know this and
I think people stopped going to bars at
that time they stopped drinking they
stopped you know there I mean it is a
general what your did you say this is
coming from a study that’s oh wait mm
anything had to do with the drop of the
market or not at all that had none got
it
you know actually I there one thing
about that as I think that instead of
people doing gambling and drinking and
smoking they actually moved to athletics
even more as a coping mechanism so the
market crash in essence what you’re
thinking I don’t know what data you have
I’d be curious to know more the market
crash made us healthier yeah I mean or
we went to a different form of coping
with it so around that time then you we
could I could easily see that the men’s
market was never gonna be as big as a
woman’s market because women just have
more clothing they’ve got more pieces to
cover up yeah the bottom line that is a
good point and they’re colder and so
they you know they think much
differently but well some men would want
the less pieces to be covered up right
but that’s a completely different market
yeah I mean like Paul right just sitting
behind the camera but please go ahead
I’m sorry so um so then there was an
inflection time though that was time to
like set the base for for men’s and at
the time we were just coming out of
being constrained by a retail store I
mean ecommerce was just eking out in
2005 670 know what I mean and it was
mostly a commodity product it was like
sinb old sword Kleenex or something like
that not something that was tactile you
could hold you know that you needed to
fit and all that type of stuff so we
were just kind of moving into that era
but it was easy to see that you know
because we couldn’t make like 50% of our
store 40% of our storm ends but
ecommerce was gonna allow that platform
to happen all we had to do was show it
in our stores and allow the freedom and
the breathability for men to go online
and start and start buying it and we
could have been 10 years ahead of Nike
or Under Armour as anybody else because
nobody else was was doing the vertical
model missing the middleman we had the
opportunity to make much much better
quality product at a much better price
which we did mostly until we you know
got you know quarterly reports you know
from the wall street going back logical
it’s like it’s painful so let me ask you
I see a Lululemon store in the mall and
I’ll generally just look at it and I’ll
say one nice stuff and I’ll walk away in
my mind my wife she’ll stop by Lululemon
and goes inside and I sell see you I’m
going to go to Nike or something like
that you are a big guy I’m a big guy you
just said earlier that some of the
customers that were coming into one a
wear Lululemon they were smaller like
I’m in Argentina last week and I’m in
Italy the month before and I go to
stores to buy clothes I’m like I need a
sports jacket sir I’m sorry man we’re
not gonna find any sports jacket your
size in Argentina or in Italy because
what it is you know their market is a
different market
do you wear Lululemon today yourself are
the products built for somebody like you
to wear Lululemon yeah it had to work
for me so ok so you go super limit 100%
ok but I are really reducing at the
beginning of like 1998 to 2002 the yogi
men were quite small and slight right so
so but that morph to really quickly and
and what I’m saying is really we just
Lula manned just had to make masculine
stuff but it made the mistake of it kept
hiring fashion designers from I’d call
the east coast of the US who didn’t have
the content like the West Coast makes
things functional and then makes them
beautiful where the East Coast makes the
beautiful and then makes a fun price to
make them look out like that’s it’s a
whole different distinct interesting
interesting so this means now next time
I walk past Lululemon I have to go
inside that’s what you’re saying after
going see if I can find something
because these ripped jeans I mean you
just call that my ripped jeans you’re
like these guys are wearing ripped
clothes you know going out Paul we got
to stop by Lululemon and find some
tights for you well I don’t think
actually people even wear jeans anymore
like I think it’s it’s we’ve killed it
in the woman woman’s business and you
see VF Corporation trying to sell their
jeans business begin nobody wants to buy
that
well the apparel business itself is so
competitive because how fast things
change and if you don’t change with the
time just it’s not a thing that one
thing lasts a long time so you have to
always be adapting constantly would you
agree with that or no I think that’s
that’s two different businesses again
that’s the fashion of Zara hmm that’s
what I’m talking about that’s I you know
it’s like we’re on the end of like
technical like like technical advances
occur every year and and again we’re I’m
you know I think the future of athletic
apparel I look I look at people in the
Olympics and I go that is the most
functional apparel there is you know
it’s total like rat it’s tight under the
armpits it’s tight in the garage I mean
once you’ve been in something like that
everything else feels uncomfortable even
but you know our don’t only our social
norms in North America that tells us
it’s not if you go into Europe you see
men for years have been wearing you know
like RIT and running you know for you
know wear speedos they don’t have any
problem like you know like you well you
know I mean maybe you know for your
Iranian it’s they’re like they don’t
even have the context that you know that
they have from this kind of religious
social moral thing in North America so
what is the future though I mean you
know you talked to you on Moscone llamas
talks about the future on where we’re
going towards and what he thinks is
gonna happen and you you are 5-7 years
ahead what’s really gonna have our we’re
gonna have like smart clothes like is it
gonna be smart technical app you know
athletic gear or were we going yeah I
don’t believe in all the wires and not
slow being you see now I think it
it’s making clothing very uncomfortable
it’s heavy it’s it’s it’s kind of get
that kind of defeats the purpose of kind
of wearing clothing that feels naked I
do feel it’s gonna be like room I think
it’s gonna give me a complete suit top
to bottom it’s gonna say actual fabric
will be temperature control it will
handle stink I think you can see you
know the Apple watch getting bigger but
I think it’s gonna be a full Apple watch
here with your implants here I think the
the phone or whatever we call it will do
will prick into our skin for blood and
moisture and salt they will it will
compare that against big data it will
send that to you know our doctors only
when we are you know what I mean
actually the big data just well well
tell us you know whether we need to
check in with a doctor or not but I also
think you know from a fashion point of
view there’s going to be a people won’t
be designing clothing so much as they’ll
be designing apps and you’ll go on an
app and kind of pick out a design that
you want you’re going to turn to handy
so buy clothes I think we’re going dude
that’s amazing
yeah hundred one hundred percent we have
to go there we have to go there well if
you look over like a period of time when
people dressed in England when it was
cold and no one was athletic and nobody
sweat and and you know it was like all
the clothing and the jackets and
everything the wall and everything and
you look from that time till now and you
look at how how much technical clothing
has influenced general clothing and you
go at another 20 years I mean we’re not
that far from it so you think people
gonna be receptive to the whole ship
going into the body yeah I think it’ll
just be a prick I think it’ll be so it’s
they’re gonna track me like where I’m at
is it gonna be like a tracking system to
them and that’s your phone that’s a
different thing than I think what I’m
talking about about health and fitness
and I also fully believe in the 3d
printing of food and and I think
everybody’s going to be fit 20 years
from now I don’t think that I don’t
think there’s going to be any such thing
as people that are overweight or have
issues really yeah really yeah that you
know just so maybe because for us Fitbit
like I look at this year right we had
everybody at our home office all of us
on put fit
next thing no people are losing 10
pounds in a month 15 months in a month
one of the things I talk about in our
company is the fact that visionaries
speak a language that very few people
speak right and some companies instill a
certain culture that you can’t teach
that language to somebody you can’t just
come to the Home Office or the company
or certain culture and speak that right
off the bat it’s like you and I deciding
to go to you know Portugal and speaking
Portuguese if we don’t know it we’re now
gonna be able to speak that language did
you have a certain language that you
spoke as a visionary and a founder
yourself and if you did what was it and
whatever it was how did you transfer it
to me as when your employees your team
members again I’ve read probably a
thousand books in the year in 1997 and
out of those
I’m sorry hundred books out of the
hundred books there were five things
that kind of happened that I went oh
these are kind of encompass all the
other 95 and so one of them was good to
great by Collins the goal by Rosenblatt
a psychology of achievement it’s a it’s
an audio by Brian Tracy good book great
book yeah really we’ve had Brian Tracy
before yes and the Landmark Forum which
for me you went to the line Locke well
yes sure sure and I phenomenal from
learning like the definition of
integrity why I complain how I
communicate how I create they’re really
transformational with those you know
five things it was like oh and seven
Habits Highly Effective People we
created like about thirty terms and
definitions from those and that’s what
we that’s what you used to communicate
in the company so by wind dates
conditions of satisfaction you know what
is you know you can complain twice but
then you have to take action what is
action every one we did had one
definition of integrity because there’s
actually a pretty funny thing everyone
thinks they have integrity but everyone
has a different definition of and that’s
right so for that so there’s no
integrity so I think a company has to
define integrity and for Lou Lemon it
was doing what we say we were going to
do when we say we will do it in how was
it it was expected to be done and if we
can’t get it done then we have to go
back and tell everyone immediately and
and fix fix the issue that we
so did you constantly talk about this
over and over and over again and your
staff meetings employees where’s this
stuff all over the place yeah it well I
documented it and you know but of course
when you bring in new executives from
the outside they have their own like
yeah yeah yeah I got your culture yeah
yeah yeah and they’re really good at
interviews and they’re going yeah we
yeah we believe what you’re saying but
they don’t really do it and I do it
early wasn’t aware of that kind of thing
at the time our meetings started to show
up five minutes late then ten minutes
late twenty people would be waiting and
we never did that before meetings almost
started directly on time where you’d
almost be fired because if a creative
meeting starts five minutes late then
the people in the meeting think oh I can
get production can come in fly it you
know like five days late if it’s missing
you miss five to ten days of a winter
season then you miss those days to sell
so then you got to put stuff on discount
yeah then your margins drop then your
sales staff doesn’t want to be you know
your quality sales staff doesn’t want to
be with the company that discounts so
they leave so then you get you know I’d
say a lower quality of people and then
they have higher turnover so then your
training costs are more then your you
know the whole it’s just a spiral down
so integrity
it’s a mountain that can never be you
know you can never get to the top of it
but you got to have a standard will you
fire fast type of a leader or know if
you notice somebody doesn’t fit the
culture where you fire faster you get
people you know two three four chances
yeah I think I would be an opening for a
person changing for sure but at a
certain point it has to be know this
person is wrong so get it right before
you hire them even so you know it’s not
gonna fit or cuz you know how many times
you hire somebody just doesn’t fit
culturally I’ve made that mistake I mean
I made that mistake with my board of
directors and I hate you know with who
we brought in and and I made that
mistake with you know a CEO but you know
that CEO worked great for a couple years
and that’s not so but you’re right
firing fast the minute that you know I
kind of caught her in a couple of like
lies then okay that doesn’t matter about
anything else she’s lying about a
thousand other things in the company and
it’s bad for the culture it’s bad for
the future
the company we have to get rid of that
person now so lies compromised loose
hips you had with it it’s that’s a
that’s a terms for termination right
there yeah and I think that that because
that never stopped and the Board of
Directors never got rid of that person
with the lies then then that then it
becomes okay to lie in the company and
that why never stop perpetuating and the
board even up until the AGM unbelievable
let me ask you do you have all of this
stuff from the five books in 1997 that
impacted the Landmark Forum the Stefan
Stephen Covey and psychology do you have
that on a PDF which you would give to
you guys or no is that available is that
something that’s um if it’s not in the
book it’s you can go to my website
that’s kind of an appendix to the book
and you can find that at the linguist
it’s called the linguistic abstractions
so the terms and definitions perfect so
this is what we’re gonna do this is what
we’re gonna do just for that part we are
gonna leave that link below as well for
what he talked about in 1997 let’s make
sure to do that as far as the book goes
to finish it up one if you could speak a
little bit about the book what could you
say about this book here well it’s a
book about incredible people a good
culture that was really based on
self-development of people giving before
expectation everyone wins
it was a it was the antithesis of
everything that Yoga is and how to put
the love of yoga into business and that
that that love could actually make more
profits than an ordinary business that
was built on just metrics so you know
usually we’ll do interviews and its
value tainment
which is it’ll be some entertainment and
it’ll be some value right just so you
know for me I have gotten value from
sitting next you non-stop from beginning
to the end so in my brain I’ve taken 20
30 pages of notes you know that I’m
gonna go back and watch this and take a
bunch of notes myself absolutely
incredible of a sit down here for some
of you watching like for me if I’m on
your side and I watch something like
this I can’t I’m rewatching this myself
and taking notes because of how many
things I could apply to my business to
help you core your business to the next
level you think this is just an
interview we haven’t even gotten
fully in the book the link to the book
is gonna be below make sure you click on
a link to go buy the book first person
that tweets us okay maybe the best
commentary on which your takeaway was
from this interview the first person
sends a tweet best commentary what you
got out of the interview will send a
signed copy over to you but you got a
tweet my handle which is right here as
well as right here and the send us a
tweet on what you took away from this
interview with chip founder of Lulu or
lemon thank you so much I appreciate you
truly thank you so much perfect this was great thank you
Please follow and like us: