hello and welcome to deconstructed a
show where we take by watch module list
break it down and kind of figure out why
things place what they did this week to
honor Marvel’s ten-year Cinematic
Universe achievement we are breaking
down our top ten Avengers from all the
way back in 2014 so let’s take a look at
that original rank so back in 2014 when
we ranked this a lot of these characters
hadn’t been introduced in the Marvel
Cinematic Universe so we based it
heavily on their appearances and their
origins in the comics so to help me out
to break this down I have two very
special guests Justin and Andrew Justin
you are a resident comic book nerd of
WatchMojo that’s right that’s what they
get me here to talk comics and I’m true
you seem to be a regular nerd here at
the WatchMojo so now as you ready to
break this now always I’m so freaking
ready all right let’s do it
so in at number 10 we got Black Panther
and just to clarify the stills we’re
using here are to honor the 10 years of
the Marvel Cinematic Universe since all
these characters have now been
introduced we’re gonna use their still
from the movies so number 10 Black
Panther how do we feel Justin I think
it’s a pretty fair spot for T’Challa the
king of Wakanda you know in the avengers
comics he was introduced in the
Fantastic Four was relatively quickly
introduced into the Avengers after a
couple of issues of not having him as
the as the part of the team but once he
came aboard he is a very powerful member
having you know the resources of an
entire country on his back and in that
history a lot of his backstory has been
unveiled in the pages of the Avengers as
well so I think he’s kind of an
essential member at this point and I
think more the way the Avengers kind of
take the Avengers get together in the
always trying to conquer like a global
threat more than just something that’s
very niche in one city that’s where the
characters kind of stand alone so I feel
like that is a good breeding ground for
them to kind of bring in you more
international characters Andrew
I see you making like faces over there
does that make him an Avenger like I
agree is a fantastic character but okay
look I got Marvel encyclopedia I brought
a ton of Avengers comics from home from
all of the difference from tons of
different eras right and you know what
black panther isn’t in any of these
because he’s too busy being the king of
Wakanda hmm he’s like yes he does exist
in some Avengers comics I didn’t have
any exist as an Avenger but he’s not an
Avenger in the MCU yet and you know what
the only time I could actually find any
kind of evidence of him being an Avenger
I want you I want the commenters and
viewers at home to watch that Andrew
whipped out trading cards something I
haven’t seen in a good like 20 years so
good oh and gotta say okay the only
thing I could find that says affiliation
Avengers for Black Panther so either he
shouldn’t be on this list at all or he
should be a lot higher Vinton hmm you
know that’s that’s the only thing I’ll
settle for so he’s either all-in or none
at all exactly pretty much like I feel
like just because when we get down
though into the list we start to get to
the essential members founding members
and like people who are kind of so
entwined with the Avengers core that
they don’t have that kind of leeway of
like we’re gonna go off and you know
take care of a country Tony Stark has
never been the king of anything but I I
think of everything I think in his in
his own unique way in the Cinematic
Universe has to be the king of
everything I think the that when
Chautala was introduced into the
Avengers series in the probably was
around the mid 60s I would say it became
quick to see the value that he brought
to the team and I think for that reason
having him just outside those core
members is exactly where he belongs
I think Andrews referencing his book I
hope this is about our number 9 entry
because let’s move on to never Knight
okay so coming in at number 9 is the
wasp I have a commenter here but
of Kay Carano the wasp is number nine
because she’s the one that gave them the
name so he justifies this character as
being almost the Godfather of the
Avenger godmother yeah yeah she’s the
one of the original founding member
first female member there’s a lot of
things going for the wasp when you’re
considering who the greatest Avengers
and she remained an essential part of
the team for a very long time I I really
feel like 9 is a good spot for her
because when you start to move down the
list you get to like characters who are
necessarily more powerful or more
essential but while she has always kind
of been like in the background she’s
always been in the background like she’s
always been a part of the team and I
also find she brings a good stability
and a realism she always she’s always
number one advocate for whatever
collateral damage what happened she kind
of keeps the Avengers in check
especially ant-man slash giant man or
whatever we’ll get to him eventually but
she is almost like almost like the
mother of everybody and kind of keeping
them together and keeping them all
intact and making sure that it’s for the
greater good not too good at the team so
I think number 9 is a solid spot for
there I agree right right everybody
agrees let’s move on alright so coming
in at number 8 is the vision one of
another one of the og Avengers I feel
like he merits his spot here at number 8
kind of overpowered in my opinion in
terms that he is just a robot
he’s not really a being from another
planet or that’s all up to
interpretation on which storyline and
rich origin you’re going with but for me
I wouldn’t say an overrated Avenger but
an adventure that I’m indifferent on
Madren I think a lot of people are sort
of indifferent about vision period like
when he was being introduced into the
MCU people are kind of like really
you’re going to vision before you go to
other characters and something that we
need to I think address is looking at
the Avengers comics like everybody has
been an Avenger at some point at some
point you’re not like every Everitt
spider-man even though his dream was
part of the Avengers oh yeah yeah
Green was an Avenger at one point like
it’s a little bit silly so what are we
talking about when we say top 10
Avengers because if it’s like core
Avengers members who have been there for
a long time vision has to be on the list
yeah but if we’re looking at just every
character who has ever been an Avenger I
don’t think vision is unfortunately
anywhere near this list because of the
indifference and that’s interesting I
think that kind of proves the angle of
this list it’s not necessarily the best
characters that have been Avengers it’s
the best Avengers and I think visions
history and longevity with the team kind
of cements his spot on the list beast
has been an Avenger since like the
settings I think the thing with Beast
and Wolverine is yes they’ve been
crucial members of the Avengers and for
a long time but when it comes to team
affiliations they’re mostly thought of
and for good reason as x-men yeah
they’re their x-men first and like
backup Avengers I find they’re not
really part of like will I agree beast I
don’t know beast is pretty if you read
the comics beast is pretty heavily
involved in yeah I think I think you you
make it really saw the point about
beasts and I think the only reason that
he’s so often not thought of as an
Avenger is because people think of him
as an x-men care oh yeah but I’ll give
you then I’ll give you that it yeah if
we’re like saying if the venue of
interest has to be their main affiliate
right exactly black panther is the king
of Wakanda
yeah but Conte is not a superhero but
then there are a lot of superheroes in
Wakanda there are plenty of Black
Panthers his sisters I feel like this is
top ten people who should be Avengers or
have been Avengers everybody and then I
feel like that’s a list for another team
Norman’s been an Avenger you throw a
sale in the Marvel Universe you hit an
Avenger pretty much I think though this
could be a conversation for a different
type of video fairness so let’s move on
to entry number seven okay so coming in
at number seven is Black Widow now
before we started this in between takes
I was really adamant on how black widows
should not be on this list because since
we were basing this primarily on the
comics she is a kind of like I’m on the
team not on the team
good I’m bad she’s really like
wishy-washy spy styles so she’s not
officially well she isn’t she isn’t
right depends who’s writing if they need
her in that storyline fair I think she’s
more on this list because of the
popularity she took on by from the
movies from being an Iron Man to then
the first Avengers I have a comment here
by a Curie cost black widow should be
placed number 20 as she has no powers
that’s hardcore
I don’t know about that one yeah I think
Harvey really took a look at the people
on this list that have no powers Iron
Man doesn’t have any powers neither does
that man has no powers the wasp has I
don’t think that instantly disqualifies
but she also has no I think sort of what
he means there’s no camo thing yeah
besides just being able to kick people
and she’s like really good at kicking
people and she’s also really good at
shooting people that’s right yeah right
that’s important I mean you know I mean
another but she’s also like again she’s
not in any of my like I couldn’t find
any comic in my collection that had
black I might use this term a lot on
this show is that she’s officially
unofficial Avenger which means that
she’s part of the team when they need
her to advance the story and she’s not
part of the team when they don’t need
her but then if they need her to
double-cross someone they’ll throw her
in the story they’ve changed her
characters a lot to do the comics and
because of her popularity on TV and
whatever shows and whatever yeah these
have come out so she’s become more of a
normalized type of like Avenger and I
want to do good we’re originally in the
comics she was a bit of a out for
herself depe character she’s a great
character yeah I was really out for
herself
there’s much more than tea here oh yeah
more of an antihero and it kind of adds
an interesting element to the dynamic of
like the team when you have like a wild
card like that join in and I think this
is like one of the few examples on this
list of a character whose appearance in
the MCU has like significantly affected
their standing in the comics because in
the ten years I mean since Iron Man 2 I
guess that’s eight years that she’s been
introduced in the MCU like her
popularity her in her stock in Marvel
Comics has gone way up so like more now
than ever before she
a significant character in watermarks
also reflects how much influence the MCU
has Nicole is a total down to the way
these characters are drawn to where
they’re kind of mimicking the features
of the actors that play them what yeah I
think is interesting that’s also
changing the artwork but let’s move on
to entry number six
yet another Avenger who’s really good at
shooting things and has no powers
another comic here from Lakers fan 24
super reliable source Hawkeye is useless
why is he on this list
tell us Justin Hawkeyes not useless
exactly he’s got a pretty sweet bow and
arrow alright that’s one use that I just
named off Hawkeye you know in the MCU
they kind of took a lot of his charm
away granted a big purple suit would
have been ridiculous no one’s arguing
that and you have to keep in mind that
he’s often been used as tragedy bait
like they’ll kill off Hawkeye just to
kill someone in the comic yeah he dies a
lot so I think I have a common grace
dead actually yeah I think I brought one
with me there’s you know he’s been used
like kind of the same way as Coulson in
the first Avengers movie where it’s like
freakin hawk eyes dead man we got to
figure this stuff out yeah and for that
reason alone I mean even when he’s alive
he’s an essential member but the fact
that he’s been able to unite the
Avengers around his demise is a pretty
significant thing in comics I think well
he’s not an OG member but he knows like
he was an Avenger exclusively for a long
time yeah like he was one of the
Avengers which is part of the reason why
really when they introduced him they
wanted him as a member of that core team
like in the MCU he’s a core member of
the Avengers a founding member and I
also think in age of Ultron they kind of
changed his standing and kind of brought
back more of the comic book attributes
where he’s more of a not really a
smartass but it’ll kind of tell you when
you’re wrong and he’ll tell you this is
how things are I kind of want to do my
own thing leave me alone and I finally
brought that back yeah and a lot of that
kind of spilled into Civil War with his
appearance in Civil War where he’s kind
of like okay I’ll help out cap because I
kind of can
than iron man so like yeah I’ll come out
of retirement you know the smart quips
between him and iron man they kind of
brought some of his charm back but I
have to agree with you with his
appearance in Thor and then in the first
Avengers he was kind of like if like hey
okay here’s a guy with boring arrows
like here’s a guy who shoots arrows and
they expanded and developed his
character bit I think they he kind of
justified why he’s there mmm but let’s
move on to number five
so in at number five Ant Man aka Giant
Man aka Yellow Jacket originally in the
comics so right off the bat this isn’t
the right man that we know we put on the
list the original ant-man we put on was
Hank Pym who is the og ant-man yeah
who’s and who is the like much more
associated with the character in the
comic book anymore
yeah Scott lying more came in with New
Avengers and he was one of those like
when they got rid of when they bring in
you know the different with him all the
time the reason they went with Scott for
the movies is because Hank Pym in the
comics had a very controversial arc
where he had been abusive towards his
wife the wasp kind of soured his pee it
was a PR disaster for that character so
they really couldn’t make him in the
ultimates like they revived that
storyline in The Ultimates and made it
even more hardcore yeah they did so they
did I feel like The Ultimates comic-book
series was more for them like let’s
experimentally try to push the envelopes
of more grittier type of storylines so
it’s like let’s have things that exist
in the ultimate storyline and then the
original comics will exist separately
Marvel right now for me during their
second overhaul right now which is going
on in the comics where they’re kind of
Ryo ver hauling everything again is
showing me that Marvel has really turned
all like their creative and best writers
to the Cinematic Universe and the TV
shows there’s not much left in the
comics there is some gems that are
coming out but I really find that the
Cinematic Universe is what’s keeping
Marvel afloat right now and also making
everybody money yeah so I feel like them
revamping
they’re comics again is really just
another way to say okay so we took a
direction you guys don’t like it cool
let’s people yes yeah people are pissed
but back to the list yeah I would cut
ant-man entirely I’m not saying he’s
like shouldn’t be on the list but top
ten because I think we need to find a
space for Carol Danvers Captain Marvel
yes she is so heavily involved in the
Avengers like now more than ever but
there’s been a Captain Marvel on the
Avengers regardless of what forms yes
yeah Marvel really exactly Marvel and I
just and because of how much they’re
doing with Carol Danvers in the comics
like she’s kind of she’s a leader of the
Avengers from time to time I think she
needs to be on the list and ant-man is
the one I would cut to make Harold
interesting so we’re getting into our
top four now and we all know who are in
the top four let’s see if we agree on
where they’re sitting
number four the Incredible Hulk
I am a fan of this I grew up watching
the TV show I have read Planet Hulk and
I have Red Hulk vs. The Wolverine so
none of those are Avengers comics is he
a key member of the group kind of is he
a good member of the group no no that is
my no yeah it’s like pretty much siccing
a rabid pit bull in a group of bad guys
and hoping that only the bad guys get
bit that is my that is my take on the
Hulk I know it is a hot take but yeah
he’s fun to watch he’s fun to read so it
was cool to watch him smash though so
listen while andrew does his research
he’s flipping through the through
flipping through the stacks I think that
the Hulk is very important for the
simple superhero trope of you’ve got to
have superheroes fight each other
sometimes and it’s really easy to
convince the audience or the reader that
we need to fight the whole vengers
number one and then the movie and the
comic book yes then fighting the Hulk
before he becomes rare and Avengers in
age of Ultron we got another we got to
fight the Hulk scene with the Hulk
Buster like it’s really just
part of the DNA of this team is yes we
have like a super powerful being on our
side but like sometimes we’re just gonna
have to put him down
we gotta have to and that’s you know
that’s drama that’s conflict I love it I
read it I disagree that that is a good
like stomping ground to put him up at
number four
I think his pepper his popularity is
what got him up to number four his
usefulness Andrew you seem to disagree I
just I think the Hulk is fantastic at
number four and I think he’s so
important to the team that I wouldn’t
have touch him yeah I think that I think
the top four is pretty undisputable it’s
just the order in which you place them
and I’m very comfortable with the Holika
being uh would you take the Hulk off the
list entirely no not at all the list no
I wouldn’t take him off the list what I
put him at number four is he one of the
strongest Avengers yes is he cool yes
but is he useful and one of the best
Avengers does he bring a lot to the team
besides being able to smash everything
and destroy whatever bad guys put in
front of them or in case of the movies
whatever CGI army is put in front of
them yeah I don’t know I’ll tend to
disagree I would have put him a bit
lower and maybe made space for Captain
Marvel that’s my Hut tape so let’s move
on to number theory hot Manny so at
number three we’ve got the Mighty Thor
he’s mighty he is mighty yes a god I
mean I could maybe argue for him being
one or two but I definitely think he
belongs in the top three and I mean the
I’ve got to here somewhere so okay so
Avengers Prime this is a comic we’ll get
that took place after siege and it was
sort of reuniting them and it’s like the
the prime Avengers are Thor Iron Man and
Captain America so I’ve got Brian
Michael Bendis back me up on this I say
that 1 2 & 3 should be Captain America
DC has their Trinity yeah Batman Wonder
Woman and Superman Marvel when it comes
to the Avengers has their Trinity it’s
Thor it’s Captain America s Iron Man
Thor is probably for me like the most
interesting character especially
recently in the comics there’s a lot
really interesting stuff going on but
he’s never gone anywhere like even
though he’s not for anymore the
character right still they didn’t get
rid of him yeah and like old King Thor
is a Ark that’s going on right now it’s
great super get there’s some really
really good stuff going on and like I
don’t know he’s just such a fascinating
introduction and what way into the
Marvel Universe I find because they’re
pulling from mythology pulling on
something that’s both fantasy and
science fiction with those old Jack
Kirby comics I just think Thor’s awesome
I’m super content at this being number
three I have nothing to say I think
we’re all that oh I thought I was ready
to fight I thought were fun ya know I
don’t know we can all agree on Thor
number three we can all relax great yeah
let’s move on to number two
so coming in at number two is the
invincible Iron Man the perhaps Batman
of the Marvel World or equivalent with a
drinking problem yep I think his place
at number two is pretty obvious why he’s
number two which obviously gives away
our number one but then again it’s in
the graphics on the side of the panel so
no surprises this year got a surprising
very single cover
he’s on every cover yeah so for me Iron
Man has one of the most interesting
characters as a comic book character I
like what they did with him in the
movies I feel like some of our fans will
disagree that he should be number one
due to his popularity from the movies
but that just goes to show you when
Marvel can take a b-level character and
turn him into an a-lister because of
what they did with that I think you’re
right in saying that he used to be a
b-level character I think that if you
told people hey there’s an Iron Man
movie coming out in like the early 2000s
a lot of people would have just been
like who’s that yeah what’s that guy all
about I personally think Iron Man is the
best Avenger I would have put him a bit
higher the only higher spot he could
have gone I think he’s just the core
he’s not necessarily the leader of the
team but in a lot of ways he’s like
represents the readers perspective a lot
of times because he’s like
so analytical and skeptical and
intelligent and just all the things that
you want out of a out of a like
powerless hero to make that Batman
comparison again he’s just like the
smartest guy on the team a lot of the
times the other other examples of smart
guys would be thank him obviously Bruce
Banner when it comes to like really
reliable and funny
don’t forget hilarious members of the
Avengers I don’t think you can go wrong
with Iron Man what you’re saying makes
sense and I have a comment here great
that I think kind of backs up what
you’re saying so let me read it
so Michael sweller I think that Iron Man
isn’t is more important than Captain
America cap is like the leader but Iron
Man is the one that provides all the
badass tech funds crap loads of stuff
Iron Man is the most knowledgeable and
think he should be higher than cap on
this list and I have to agree with my
boy in the comments the other thing to
note you know
Iron Man was there from the start took
Kappa a couple issues to get in on the
action
Iron Man was there with his big gray
ugly suit before he got the upgrade so
interesting Andres you shaking your head
a lot I see you shrugging your shoulders
over there what’s going on I think your
arguments are valid thank you but I
think they’re also wrong I think Iron
Man is really good at number two but to
put him above cap it just it doesn’t
really make sense all right like cap is
the okay Avenger I can jumping the gun
here I can see the sign let’s let’s get
the cap let’s talk let’s just get over
there yeah let’s get there so number one
we left nothing to the imagination
shocking shocking with the graphics
constantly being up on screen Captain
America the number one Avenger I am 100%
behind this Justin your thoughts I’m not
mad about it I’m I totally understand it
cap is a fascinating character and we
were talking earlier about how some
people might not give him the respect he
deserves because they hear Captain
America he sounds like a boy scout he
sounds like not that interesting but in
the comics he’s always been like way
more
fascinating of a character than his name
would suggest and I think you guys would
we all agree about that especially from
the 90s in other words before I give you
the floor kind of let you speak your
piece about the captain okay I will read
a comment here from Charles Stiles
interesting great name why is everyone
hating on cap he’s the actual leader of
all the Avengers and Iron Man would make
a terrible leader his ego would cause
more problems than we’ll be able to
solve which we’ve seen clearly in the
movies they play that up Andrew why do
you think cap is the more superior
Avenger to Ironman because Captain
America is willing to adapt and change
his politics he’s let go of the suit
from time to time he’s given other
people the suit from time to time and I
think that that’s what the Avengers sort
of need and that’s what the Avengers are
supposed to be they’re not an American
team their Marvel’s team and Iron Man
I don’t think and by by design his
character doesn’t adapt as much as cap
does and I think his inflexibility just
pushes him into number two not number
one because he’s not the hero that the
Avengers need I’ve said this before on
this channel and I’ve gotten a lot of
flack for it I think in the movies that
indirectly made Iron Man the leader even
though it’s supposed to be capped and I
feel like a lot of people will classify
that as or justify that that that’s why
Iron Man is the best Avenger just
because he was the first one that kicked
off the cinematic universe and made all
this happen which is why we’re doing
this here we are ten years later yeah I
mean and the movies are doing good
they’re going very strong they’re making
boatloads of money for Disney I do think
that at the beginning Captain America’s
character may have not been handled in
the best way but we’ve seen that arc
that we saw in the comics come to
fruition in the movies which is justify
why he is the best person to be the
leader and how like you said before he’s
not just about the country we see a lot
of that and Winter Soldier how they
changed it and we’ve seen a lot of that
with the actual winter soldiers
reline in the comics when that happened
up to death of Captain America where he
comes back and then he decides not to be
Captain America anymore because he
doesn’t believe in it I think you know
I’ve argued a lot for Iron Man as the
best Avenger
I think if there’s a moment that speaks
to the reason that Captain America
should at least be the leader of the
Avengers is the final scene of the Civil
War arc in the comics where cap notices
the destruction and chaos that the fight
between the superheroes has caused and
he gives himself in to prevent any
further damage or you know casualties of
war to civilian life cap is always
willing to put the good of the many over
his personal interests and I think when
you’re looking at superheroes and the
morals you want to see reflected in
those superheroes he’s like kind of a
perfect example of that I think so and
on that note I shall believe we shall
end this episode of deconstructing let
us know what you think in the comments
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show where we take by watch module list
break it down and kind of figure out why
things place what they did this week to
honor Marvel’s ten-year Cinematic
Universe achievement we are breaking
down our top ten Avengers from all the
way back in 2014 so let’s take a look at
that original rank so back in 2014 when
we ranked this a lot of these characters
hadn’t been introduced in the Marvel
Cinematic Universe so we based it
heavily on their appearances and their
origins in the comics so to help me out
to break this down I have two very
special guests Justin and Andrew Justin
you are a resident comic book nerd of
WatchMojo that’s right that’s what they
get me here to talk comics and I’m true
you seem to be a regular nerd here at
the WatchMojo so now as you ready to
break this now always I’m so freaking
ready all right let’s do it
so in at number 10 we got Black Panther
and just to clarify the stills we’re
using here are to honor the 10 years of
the Marvel Cinematic Universe since all
these characters have now been
introduced we’re gonna use their still
from the movies so number 10 Black
Panther how do we feel Justin I think
it’s a pretty fair spot for T’Challa the
king of Wakanda you know in the avengers
comics he was introduced in the
Fantastic Four was relatively quickly
introduced into the Avengers after a
couple of issues of not having him as
the as the part of the team but once he
came aboard he is a very powerful member
having you know the resources of an
entire country on his back and in that
history a lot of his backstory has been
unveiled in the pages of the Avengers as
well so I think he’s kind of an
essential member at this point and I
think more the way the Avengers kind of
take the Avengers get together in the
always trying to conquer like a global
threat more than just something that’s
very niche in one city that’s where the
characters kind of stand alone so I feel
like that is a good breeding ground for
them to kind of bring in you more
international characters Andrew
I see you making like faces over there
does that make him an Avenger like I
agree is a fantastic character but okay
look I got Marvel encyclopedia I brought
a ton of Avengers comics from home from
all of the difference from tons of
different eras right and you know what
black panther isn’t in any of these
because he’s too busy being the king of
Wakanda hmm he’s like yes he does exist
in some Avengers comics I didn’t have
any exist as an Avenger but he’s not an
Avenger in the MCU yet and you know what
the only time I could actually find any
kind of evidence of him being an Avenger
I want you I want the commenters and
viewers at home to watch that Andrew
whipped out trading cards something I
haven’t seen in a good like 20 years so
good oh and gotta say okay the only
thing I could find that says affiliation
Avengers for Black Panther so either he
shouldn’t be on this list at all or he
should be a lot higher Vinton hmm you
know that’s that’s the only thing I’ll
settle for so he’s either all-in or none
at all exactly pretty much like I feel
like just because when we get down
though into the list we start to get to
the essential members founding members
and like people who are kind of so
entwined with the Avengers core that
they don’t have that kind of leeway of
like we’re gonna go off and you know
take care of a country Tony Stark has
never been the king of anything but I I
think of everything I think in his in
his own unique way in the Cinematic
Universe has to be the king of
everything I think the that when
Chautala was introduced into the
Avengers series in the probably was
around the mid 60s I would say it became
quick to see the value that he brought
to the team and I think for that reason
having him just outside those core
members is exactly where he belongs
I think Andrews referencing his book I
hope this is about our number 9 entry
because let’s move on to never Knight
okay so coming in at number 9 is the
wasp I have a commenter here but
of Kay Carano the wasp is number nine
because she’s the one that gave them the
name so he justifies this character as
being almost the Godfather of the
Avenger godmother yeah yeah she’s the
one of the original founding member
first female member there’s a lot of
things going for the wasp when you’re
considering who the greatest Avengers
and she remained an essential part of
the team for a very long time I I really
feel like 9 is a good spot for her
because when you start to move down the
list you get to like characters who are
necessarily more powerful or more
essential but while she has always kind
of been like in the background she’s
always been in the background like she’s
always been a part of the team and I
also find she brings a good stability
and a realism she always she’s always
number one advocate for whatever
collateral damage what happened she kind
of keeps the Avengers in check
especially ant-man slash giant man or
whatever we’ll get to him eventually but
she is almost like almost like the
mother of everybody and kind of keeping
them together and keeping them all
intact and making sure that it’s for the
greater good not too good at the team so
I think number 9 is a solid spot for
there I agree right right everybody
agrees let’s move on alright so coming
in at number 8 is the vision one of
another one of the og Avengers I feel
like he merits his spot here at number 8
kind of overpowered in my opinion in
terms that he is just a robot
he’s not really a being from another
planet or that’s all up to
interpretation on which storyline and
rich origin you’re going with but for me
I wouldn’t say an overrated Avenger but
an adventure that I’m indifferent on
Madren I think a lot of people are sort
of indifferent about vision period like
when he was being introduced into the
MCU people are kind of like really
you’re going to vision before you go to
other characters and something that we
need to I think address is looking at
the Avengers comics like everybody has
been an Avenger at some point at some
point you’re not like every Everitt
spider-man even though his dream was
part of the Avengers oh yeah yeah
Green was an Avenger at one point like
it’s a little bit silly so what are we
talking about when we say top 10
Avengers because if it’s like core
Avengers members who have been there for
a long time vision has to be on the list
yeah but if we’re looking at just every
character who has ever been an Avenger I
don’t think vision is unfortunately
anywhere near this list because of the
indifference and that’s interesting I
think that kind of proves the angle of
this list it’s not necessarily the best
characters that have been Avengers it’s
the best Avengers and I think visions
history and longevity with the team kind
of cements his spot on the list beast
has been an Avenger since like the
settings I think the thing with Beast
and Wolverine is yes they’ve been
crucial members of the Avengers and for
a long time but when it comes to team
affiliations they’re mostly thought of
and for good reason as x-men yeah
they’re their x-men first and like
backup Avengers I find they’re not
really part of like will I agree beast I
don’t know beast is pretty if you read
the comics beast is pretty heavily
involved in yeah I think I think you you
make it really saw the point about
beasts and I think the only reason that
he’s so often not thought of as an
Avenger is because people think of him
as an x-men care oh yeah but I’ll give
you then I’ll give you that it yeah if
we’re like saying if the venue of
interest has to be their main affiliate
right exactly black panther is the king
of Wakanda
yeah but Conte is not a superhero but
then there are a lot of superheroes in
Wakanda there are plenty of Black
Panthers his sisters I feel like this is
top ten people who should be Avengers or
have been Avengers everybody and then I
feel like that’s a list for another team
Norman’s been an Avenger you throw a
sale in the Marvel Universe you hit an
Avenger pretty much I think though this
could be a conversation for a different
type of video fairness so let’s move on
to entry number seven okay so coming in
at number seven is Black Widow now
before we started this in between takes
I was really adamant on how black widows
should not be on this list because since
we were basing this primarily on the
comics she is a kind of like I’m on the
team not on the team
good I’m bad she’s really like
wishy-washy spy styles so she’s not
officially well she isn’t she isn’t
right depends who’s writing if they need
her in that storyline fair I think she’s
more on this list because of the
popularity she took on by from the
movies from being an Iron Man to then
the first Avengers I have a comment here
by a Curie cost black widow should be
placed number 20 as she has no powers
that’s hardcore
I don’t know about that one yeah I think
Harvey really took a look at the people
on this list that have no powers Iron
Man doesn’t have any powers neither does
that man has no powers the wasp has I
don’t think that instantly disqualifies
but she also has no I think sort of what
he means there’s no camo thing yeah
besides just being able to kick people
and she’s like really good at kicking
people and she’s also really good at
shooting people that’s right yeah right
that’s important I mean you know I mean
another but she’s also like again she’s
not in any of my like I couldn’t find
any comic in my collection that had
black I might use this term a lot on
this show is that she’s officially
unofficial Avenger which means that
she’s part of the team when they need
her to advance the story and she’s not
part of the team when they don’t need
her but then if they need her to
double-cross someone they’ll throw her
in the story they’ve changed her
characters a lot to do the comics and
because of her popularity on TV and
whatever shows and whatever yeah these
have come out so she’s become more of a
normalized type of like Avenger and I
want to do good we’re originally in the
comics she was a bit of a out for
herself depe character she’s a great
character yeah I was really out for
herself
there’s much more than tea here oh yeah
more of an antihero and it kind of adds
an interesting element to the dynamic of
like the team when you have like a wild
card like that join in and I think this
is like one of the few examples on this
list of a character whose appearance in
the MCU has like significantly affected
their standing in the comics because in
the ten years I mean since Iron Man 2 I
guess that’s eight years that she’s been
introduced in the MCU like her
popularity her in her stock in Marvel
Comics has gone way up so like more now
than ever before she
a significant character in watermarks
also reflects how much influence the MCU
has Nicole is a total down to the way
these characters are drawn to where
they’re kind of mimicking the features
of the actors that play them what yeah I
think is interesting that’s also
changing the artwork but let’s move on
to entry number six
yet another Avenger who’s really good at
shooting things and has no powers
another comic here from Lakers fan 24
super reliable source Hawkeye is useless
why is he on this list
tell us Justin Hawkeyes not useless
exactly he’s got a pretty sweet bow and
arrow alright that’s one use that I just
named off Hawkeye you know in the MCU
they kind of took a lot of his charm
away granted a big purple suit would
have been ridiculous no one’s arguing
that and you have to keep in mind that
he’s often been used as tragedy bait
like they’ll kill off Hawkeye just to
kill someone in the comic yeah he dies a
lot so I think I have a common grace
dead actually yeah I think I brought one
with me there’s you know he’s been used
like kind of the same way as Coulson in
the first Avengers movie where it’s like
freakin hawk eyes dead man we got to
figure this stuff out yeah and for that
reason alone I mean even when he’s alive
he’s an essential member but the fact
that he’s been able to unite the
Avengers around his demise is a pretty
significant thing in comics I think well
he’s not an OG member but he knows like
he was an Avenger exclusively for a long
time yeah like he was one of the
Avengers which is part of the reason why
really when they introduced him they
wanted him as a member of that core team
like in the MCU he’s a core member of
the Avengers a founding member and I
also think in age of Ultron they kind of
changed his standing and kind of brought
back more of the comic book attributes
where he’s more of a not really a
smartass but it’ll kind of tell you when
you’re wrong and he’ll tell you this is
how things are I kind of want to do my
own thing leave me alone and I finally
brought that back yeah and a lot of that
kind of spilled into Civil War with his
appearance in Civil War where he’s kind
of like okay I’ll help out cap because I
kind of can
than iron man so like yeah I’ll come out
of retirement you know the smart quips
between him and iron man they kind of
brought some of his charm back but I
have to agree with you with his
appearance in Thor and then in the first
Avengers he was kind of like if like hey
okay here’s a guy with boring arrows
like here’s a guy who shoots arrows and
they expanded and developed his
character bit I think they he kind of
justified why he’s there mmm but let’s
move on to number five
so in at number five Ant Man aka Giant
Man aka Yellow Jacket originally in the
comics so right off the bat this isn’t
the right man that we know we put on the
list the original ant-man we put on was
Hank Pym who is the og ant-man yeah
who’s and who is the like much more
associated with the character in the
comic book anymore
yeah Scott lying more came in with New
Avengers and he was one of those like
when they got rid of when they bring in
you know the different with him all the
time the reason they went with Scott for
the movies is because Hank Pym in the
comics had a very controversial arc
where he had been abusive towards his
wife the wasp kind of soured his pee it
was a PR disaster for that character so
they really couldn’t make him in the
ultimates like they revived that
storyline in The Ultimates and made it
even more hardcore yeah they did so they
did I feel like The Ultimates comic-book
series was more for them like let’s
experimentally try to push the envelopes
of more grittier type of storylines so
it’s like let’s have things that exist
in the ultimate storyline and then the
original comics will exist separately
Marvel right now for me during their
second overhaul right now which is going
on in the comics where they’re kind of
Ryo ver hauling everything again is
showing me that Marvel has really turned
all like their creative and best writers
to the Cinematic Universe and the TV
shows there’s not much left in the
comics there is some gems that are
coming out but I really find that the
Cinematic Universe is what’s keeping
Marvel afloat right now and also making
everybody money yeah so I feel like them
revamping
they’re comics again is really just
another way to say okay so we took a
direction you guys don’t like it cool
let’s people yes yeah people are pissed
but back to the list yeah I would cut
ant-man entirely I’m not saying he’s
like shouldn’t be on the list but top
ten because I think we need to find a
space for Carol Danvers Captain Marvel
yes she is so heavily involved in the
Avengers like now more than ever but
there’s been a Captain Marvel on the
Avengers regardless of what forms yes
yeah Marvel really exactly Marvel and I
just and because of how much they’re
doing with Carol Danvers in the comics
like she’s kind of she’s a leader of the
Avengers from time to time I think she
needs to be on the list and ant-man is
the one I would cut to make Harold
interesting so we’re getting into our
top four now and we all know who are in
the top four let’s see if we agree on
where they’re sitting
number four the Incredible Hulk
I am a fan of this I grew up watching
the TV show I have read Planet Hulk and
I have Red Hulk vs. The Wolverine so
none of those are Avengers comics is he
a key member of the group kind of is he
a good member of the group no no that is
my no yeah it’s like pretty much siccing
a rabid pit bull in a group of bad guys
and hoping that only the bad guys get
bit that is my that is my take on the
Hulk I know it is a hot take but yeah
he’s fun to watch he’s fun to read so it
was cool to watch him smash though so
listen while andrew does his research
he’s flipping through the through
flipping through the stacks I think that
the Hulk is very important for the
simple superhero trope of you’ve got to
have superheroes fight each other
sometimes and it’s really easy to
convince the audience or the reader that
we need to fight the whole vengers
number one and then the movie and the
comic book yes then fighting the Hulk
before he becomes rare and Avengers in
age of Ultron we got another we got to
fight the Hulk scene with the Hulk
Buster like it’s really just
part of the DNA of this team is yes we
have like a super powerful being on our
side but like sometimes we’re just gonna
have to put him down
we gotta have to and that’s you know
that’s drama that’s conflict I love it I
read it I disagree that that is a good
like stomping ground to put him up at
number four
I think his pepper his popularity is
what got him up to number four his
usefulness Andrew you seem to disagree I
just I think the Hulk is fantastic at
number four and I think he’s so
important to the team that I wouldn’t
have touch him yeah I think that I think
the top four is pretty undisputable it’s
just the order in which you place them
and I’m very comfortable with the Holika
being uh would you take the Hulk off the
list entirely no not at all the list no
I wouldn’t take him off the list what I
put him at number four is he one of the
strongest Avengers yes is he cool yes
but is he useful and one of the best
Avengers does he bring a lot to the team
besides being able to smash everything
and destroy whatever bad guys put in
front of them or in case of the movies
whatever CGI army is put in front of
them yeah I don’t know I’ll tend to
disagree I would have put him a bit
lower and maybe made space for Captain
Marvel that’s my Hut tape so let’s move
on to number theory hot Manny so at
number three we’ve got the Mighty Thor
he’s mighty he is mighty yes a god I
mean I could maybe argue for him being
one or two but I definitely think he
belongs in the top three and I mean the
I’ve got to here somewhere so okay so
Avengers Prime this is a comic we’ll get
that took place after siege and it was
sort of reuniting them and it’s like the
the prime Avengers are Thor Iron Man and
Captain America so I’ve got Brian
Michael Bendis back me up on this I say
that 1 2 & 3 should be Captain America
DC has their Trinity yeah Batman Wonder
Woman and Superman Marvel when it comes
to the Avengers has their Trinity it’s
Thor it’s Captain America s Iron Man
Thor is probably for me like the most
interesting character especially
recently in the comics there’s a lot
really interesting stuff going on but
he’s never gone anywhere like even
though he’s not for anymore the
character right still they didn’t get
rid of him yeah and like old King Thor
is a Ark that’s going on right now it’s
great super get there’s some really
really good stuff going on and like I
don’t know he’s just such a fascinating
introduction and what way into the
Marvel Universe I find because they’re
pulling from mythology pulling on
something that’s both fantasy and
science fiction with those old Jack
Kirby comics I just think Thor’s awesome
I’m super content at this being number
three I have nothing to say I think
we’re all that oh I thought I was ready
to fight I thought were fun ya know I
don’t know we can all agree on Thor
number three we can all relax great yeah
let’s move on to number two
so coming in at number two is the
invincible Iron Man the perhaps Batman
of the Marvel World or equivalent with a
drinking problem yep I think his place
at number two is pretty obvious why he’s
number two which obviously gives away
our number one but then again it’s in
the graphics on the side of the panel so
no surprises this year got a surprising
very single cover
he’s on every cover yeah so for me Iron
Man has one of the most interesting
characters as a comic book character I
like what they did with him in the
movies I feel like some of our fans will
disagree that he should be number one
due to his popularity from the movies
but that just goes to show you when
Marvel can take a b-level character and
turn him into an a-lister because of
what they did with that I think you’re
right in saying that he used to be a
b-level character I think that if you
told people hey there’s an Iron Man
movie coming out in like the early 2000s
a lot of people would have just been
like who’s that yeah what’s that guy all
about I personally think Iron Man is the
best Avenger I would have put him a bit
higher the only higher spot he could
have gone I think he’s just the core
he’s not necessarily the leader of the
team but in a lot of ways he’s like
represents the readers perspective a lot
of times because he’s like
so analytical and skeptical and
intelligent and just all the things that
you want out of a out of a like
powerless hero to make that Batman
comparison again he’s just like the
smartest guy on the team a lot of the
times the other other examples of smart
guys would be thank him obviously Bruce
Banner when it comes to like really
reliable and funny
don’t forget hilarious members of the
Avengers I don’t think you can go wrong
with Iron Man what you’re saying makes
sense and I have a comment here great
that I think kind of backs up what
you’re saying so let me read it
so Michael sweller I think that Iron Man
isn’t is more important than Captain
America cap is like the leader but Iron
Man is the one that provides all the
badass tech funds crap loads of stuff
Iron Man is the most knowledgeable and
think he should be higher than cap on
this list and I have to agree with my
boy in the comments the other thing to
note you know
Iron Man was there from the start took
Kappa a couple issues to get in on the
action
Iron Man was there with his big gray
ugly suit before he got the upgrade so
interesting Andres you shaking your head
a lot I see you shrugging your shoulders
over there what’s going on I think your
arguments are valid thank you but I
think they’re also wrong I think Iron
Man is really good at number two but to
put him above cap it just it doesn’t
really make sense all right like cap is
the okay Avenger I can jumping the gun
here I can see the sign let’s let’s get
the cap let’s talk let’s just get over
there yeah let’s get there so number one
we left nothing to the imagination
shocking shocking with the graphics
constantly being up on screen Captain
America the number one Avenger I am 100%
behind this Justin your thoughts I’m not
mad about it I’m I totally understand it
cap is a fascinating character and we
were talking earlier about how some
people might not give him the respect he
deserves because they hear Captain
America he sounds like a boy scout he
sounds like not that interesting but in
the comics he’s always been like way
more
fascinating of a character than his name
would suggest and I think you guys would
we all agree about that especially from
the 90s in other words before I give you
the floor kind of let you speak your
piece about the captain okay I will read
a comment here from Charles Stiles
interesting great name why is everyone
hating on cap he’s the actual leader of
all the Avengers and Iron Man would make
a terrible leader his ego would cause
more problems than we’ll be able to
solve which we’ve seen clearly in the
movies they play that up Andrew why do
you think cap is the more superior
Avenger to Ironman because Captain
America is willing to adapt and change
his politics he’s let go of the suit
from time to time he’s given other
people the suit from time to time and I
think that that’s what the Avengers sort
of need and that’s what the Avengers are
supposed to be they’re not an American
team their Marvel’s team and Iron Man
I don’t think and by by design his
character doesn’t adapt as much as cap
does and I think his inflexibility just
pushes him into number two not number
one because he’s not the hero that the
Avengers need I’ve said this before on
this channel and I’ve gotten a lot of
flack for it I think in the movies that
indirectly made Iron Man the leader even
though it’s supposed to be capped and I
feel like a lot of people will classify
that as or justify that that that’s why
Iron Man is the best Avenger just
because he was the first one that kicked
off the cinematic universe and made all
this happen which is why we’re doing
this here we are ten years later yeah I
mean and the movies are doing good
they’re going very strong they’re making
boatloads of money for Disney I do think
that at the beginning Captain America’s
character may have not been handled in
the best way but we’ve seen that arc
that we saw in the comics come to
fruition in the movies which is justify
why he is the best person to be the
leader and how like you said before he’s
not just about the country we see a lot
of that and Winter Soldier how they
changed it and we’ve seen a lot of that
with the actual winter soldiers
reline in the comics when that happened
up to death of Captain America where he
comes back and then he decides not to be
Captain America anymore because he
doesn’t believe in it I think you know
I’ve argued a lot for Iron Man as the
best Avenger
I think if there’s a moment that speaks
to the reason that Captain America
should at least be the leader of the
Avengers is the final scene of the Civil
War arc in the comics where cap notices
the destruction and chaos that the fight
between the superheroes has caused and
he gives himself in to prevent any
further damage or you know casualties of
war to civilian life cap is always
willing to put the good of the many over
his personal interests and I think when
you’re looking at superheroes and the
morals you want to see reflected in
those superheroes he’s like kind of a
perfect example of that I think so and
on that note I shall believe we shall
end this episode of deconstructing let
us know what you think in the comments
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