[Applause]
you can prevent a terrorist attack I
have and I know if you look at me and if
you know I’m professor and if something
useless like theology or philosophy that
doesn’t seem very believable but my
colleagues and I prevented a suicide
bombing that was going to happen in that
big shopping center in Bristol so
whatever your background you can prevent
a terrorist attack doesn’t matter if
you’re Muslim or non-muslim or what
background in fact so far the biggest
haul of explosive and weapons amassed to
commit a terrorist attack in this
country with a mast by a Christian it
was a regular attender of his Anglican
Church intending to kill as many Muslims
as possible it doesn’t matter if you’re
not a police officer
remember the security services or in
government in fact if there’s one thing
that I’ve learned over the last ten
years of working in this area is we
cannot leave this to governments we
cannot entrust them with preventing the
recruitment of people to violent groups
in fact there are particular reasons why
you are more effective at preventing
terrorist recruitment of any kind than
mi5 or the security services in your
country but you do need a strategy and
while that might sound boring there was
a wonderful saying from the podium which
was you might not be interested in
strategy that strategy is interested in
you this is called the management of
savagery
and it came out in 2004 and it was the
manual so to speak the strategy that the
so-called Islamic state Isis was going
to use so here are a few points of their
strategy as foretold in this manual
first of all they want
draw the West into a deeper military
conflict they’re not trying to avoid the
bombing quite the opposite they want to
suck other countries into Middle Eastern
war so that we pour out our blood and
pour out our money into this war
secondly another point they make is they
want people to go for soft targets what
that means is us not soldiers or
assassinating presidents they want to go
for ordinary people like us ordinary
civilians first of all because they
actually want us to drive our societies
into a police state or a security state
so life becomes more and more
intolerable for us with the Muslims that
live in those countries and so that so
much of our energy and resources get
wrapped up in fighting them second
reason though that they want to go for
soft targets because their key message
is the persecution of all Muslims by
non-muslims you want to turn non-muslims
against Muslims in outrage over the
attacks just as they’re trying to turn
rusyns against non-muslims and they want
to persuade Muslims in other countries
that they cannot live there that it’s
impossible to live out your life and
your faith in the country where you are
because the hostility of other people
towards you your faith how you express
it how you dress and another point of
theirs is the kill offer or the
Caliphate because they want you to leave
that country where you are and emigrate
to what they claim is the Islamic state
they’ve created and they claim is an
obligation on all Muslims to come and
migrate and build that state so those
are some features of their strategy now
a lot of people will say the problem is
the ideology problem is the ideology
it’s not foreign policy it’s not poverty
it’s not the alienation or the
Islamophobia that people experience it’s
all about the ideology we have to
eradicate the ideology I think that’s
not very helpful
why it’s a bit like asking why has it
been arise in teenage pregnancy say and
if someone tells you the explanation for
the rise in teenage pregnancies is
because more and more teenagers are
having unprotected sex well obviously
they are what we want to know is why
what we want to know is why some people
are susceptible to this ideology and
some people totally not now
unfortunately for those people that want
quick and easy answers and quick and
easy solutions and they don’t want to
spend too much time thinking about it
there are none academics of course and
others have put forward lots of
different reasons and all of them seem
kind of plausible but they don’t apply
to different cases and in the end the
British security service or mi5 s
concluded there is no one profile there
is no one pattern there’s no one type of
person who becomes a terrorist either
the far-right racist variety or of
al-qaeda inspired or isis types there’s
no one time but i’ve learned that there
are common themes whether you’re talking
about a bedroom online fantasized
warrior or whether you’re talking about
someone who’s already very alienated
already engaging in criminal activities
not at all religious but then finds a
cause and joins a violent group all of
them have something in common and that
is that for whatever reason isis or
whatever groups targeting them it’s
meeting a need that hasn’t been met in
their lives in some more healthy way
it’s meeting a need now we all have core
needs that go beyond air food water
shelter we have psychological needs or a
sense of belonging or acceptance for
bonding with others we also have I
believe higher needs for a sense of
meaning you need to have an impact on
the
world to be able to make a difference we
also have a need to belong to something
greater than ourselves with a great
mission and a great purpose those are
higher needs that are not so easily met
in our society of course we also have
desires that we can live without but are
very very compelling for us so we might
have a need to belong and that’s what we
need in order to be mentally healthy who
have a desire that the group or the
identity that we belong with is
fantastic it’s brilliant it’s better
than others it’s got the right answers
so we have further desires and people
can tap into those desires it can be so
compelling as to be almost addictive but
also a third thing that we also crave a
portrait of ourselves an image of
ourselves that we find appealing and
satisfying or impressive and if you can
dangle that in front of somebody and say
here’s who you are here’s who you can be
if you come with us that is about the
most seductive message that you can hear
we all have our fantasies but our
fantasies especially about ourselves can
be a great source of vulnerability it
can make us very Mull nerble to
manipulation by anyone who can read that
fantasy so if you’re some fantasy is
about glory about power about violence
about being a great warrior or a soldier
about achieving the sort of a steam and
aberration of others a lot of people are
really bewilder if we look at isis in
particular it’s been so spectacularly
successful and recruiting from unlikely
sources they’re bewildered by why happy
well-adjusted successful intelligent
teenagers for example girls and women at
fallen prey or been vulnerable to
recruitment by this group and here’s one
thing to think about
this particular generation of teenagers
of young Muslims ones who have grown up
in the shadow of those falling towers on
9/11 and 7/7 this is the generation that
has grown up in the wake of the
terrorist attacks and the war on terror
and while those attacks are horrific and
evil we also need to recognize the
damage that they’ve done to Muslims
themselves who were not responsible
we’re not involved and don’t sympathize
those attacks not just 9/11 but nine
twelve the impact on these people if you
stop and consider if you’re not Muslim
consider what it must be like to have
spent your life growing up being told
that you are a threat and whatever
support you’ve had from others from your
parents from a small circle the wider
society it’s full of so many negative
images about your being and your
identity have you ever gone online and
read the comments at the bottom of
articles any article to do with Muslims
or security situations or terrorism even
in mainstream papers like The Guardian
or the Washington Post online some of
the comments are horrific vicious and
these are the ones that make it past the
moderators and worse they often go
beyond just talking about specific
terrorists and you will find comments
about all Muslims
I like this deluded violent or danger or
a threat really vicious comments now if
those were about an individual you would
recognize it that’s terrible bullying
and we know that online bullying has
made some people take their lives if
they’re young and very affected by it
the fact that is talking about a group
and doesn’t name you does not make a
difference it’s still about you Isis
in contrast when it’s reaching out to
young people it is full of positive
messages about them
it values them it takes them seriously
it addresses their concerns it
positively love bombs them when they
engage with someone through online media
they have a whole suite of volunteers
doing this when they engage with someone
they can spend literally hundreds of
hours of one-to-one contact responding
to questions responding to the
challenges or reservations that people
make they also like to show their soft
side it was a whole Twitter account
about cats in the Islamic state which
was taken down and this picture this
poor little kitten was rescued from
bombed out ruins by this wonderful man
is so manly and so caring
recruiters know something that
salespeople know and I suspect a few
politicians know it as well if you can
articulate the truths about someone’s
existence and get it right you’ve got
them hooked if you can describe
something about their life and you’ve
hit the nail on the head you’ve suddenly
gained in credibility the one thing that
they’ve talked about that you know about
they were right it was true so when they
go on to talk about other things you’re
not so sure on you begin to give them
the benefit of the doubt and so if Isis
recruiters talk about the aggression in
the hatred that they face as Muslims in
a non Muslim majority country and that
is their experience than they are
credible what this means is that if our
societies are full of antagonism or full
of bullying or full of misrepresentation
terrorists recruiters are credible the
same thing can be said for racist native
it’s supremacist groups what that means
therefore is that we have the power
to make terrorist messaging true or
false so what should that mean for your
for our counterterrorism strategy our
strategy to prevent recruitment to
violent groups first thing I would say
is don’t spin a counter narrative and
here I’m going against years and years
of government strategies because it’s
been a feature for many years in this
country in America and other countries
that we have to have a counter narrative
what that means is that al-qaeda and now
Isis have put together a particular
narrative of that story they tell the
history of the world right down to the
experience of local Muslims that makes
sense within their lands of people’s
experience in the events of history
heroes and villains as you would imagine
so a key plank of many countries
counterterrorism strategy is to have a
counter narrative I think there are some
things wrong with this and one I have to
say is that I’ve never come across a
counter narrative thrilling enough to
compete with what they can come up with
we do better with call of duty or
something like that to give people that
sense of adventure
another problem with it is that many
people who are attracted to violent or
extreme groups obviously have a bit of
the rebel about them a bit of the an
anti-authoritarian streak so pumping up
the government message which they have
to take on board is bound to fall flat
so in fact we should be encouraging
criticism of these cover of our
governments criticism of the
establishment which naturally they would
like to discourage instead of trying to
spin some counter narrative what we need
to do is demonstrate that the terrorist
message whichever side terrorism it is
it’s false through our action
we need to create the reality that
demonstrates that what they’re saying is
not true do you know one of the things
that is making Isis most furious at the
moment over these last few months it’s
not actually the threat of bombing it’s
the mass refugee crisis coming from Iraq
and Syria they are absolutely livid
about it
and are trying to put out their
counter-narrative their counter
propaganda about it in their magazine
why well one reason actually there a
practical reason because a lot of their
revenue and income comes from extortion
and taxation on the local people so the
more people leave the more money they
lose but another reason remember is that
what they say is this is the Islamic
state all Muslims have to make it real
they have to migrate and come here
because I can’t live with non-muslims in
the West and here are hundreds of
thousands of people desperate to get out
of their so-called Islamic state and
come to the west and live in common with
non-muslims so refugees are destroying
the ISIS message by their actions
although that depends on us and our
response to them wouldn’t it be
interesting especially given some of the
political the comments and a political
climate at the moment wouldn’t it be
interesting if one of the most effective
things that we could do to counter Isis
and globally would be to welcome as many
refugees as possible and welcome them as
warmly as possible and make them safe
and welcomed in our countries until it’s
safe for them to go back and create the
country they desire wouldn’t that be
ironic second thing that we need to do
in our counter-terrorist strategy of the
people unlike the government don’t
mass-market propaganda a mass message
will not work instead you have to give
people personal attention
and a lot of it now it’s commonly said
it’s a cliche isn’t it you can’t change
other people you can only change
yourself that’s not entirely true
you can often change other people and
you already know how meet their needs
tap into their desires and offer them a
picture of themselves that is attractive
to them because people will change if it
meets their needs and desires to do so
the recruiters know that people in cults
know that you need to know that and
finally another way that I’m going
against the grain and saying the
counterterrorism strategy of the people
has got to be different from the
counterterrorism strategy of the war on
terror and the government’s don’t preach
about values shared values British
values American values and you must all
subscribe to them and uphold them I’m
all for values that values only
convinced us if we see you living by
them if you want to know what someone’s
values are don’t read their speeches
just follow them around for a few days
you will see what they really value in
fact of our politicians and leaders
really lived out a commitment to peace
and to justice social justice to
economic justice to international
justice then Isis would only appeal to
Psychopaths it’s precisely because
people don’t see our leaders living out
the values that they have that they join
violent groups of one kind or another
and then you find that they can justify
brutality and excessive violence because
it means to an end to achieve their
values so instead of preaching about
values we need to talk about vision
we need to create a vision and a cause
that people find compelling and
attractive and that means it needs to be
a vision that will include everyone who
is part of our society including those
who are alienated and marginalized it
needs to be a vision that young people
can create and we need young people to
contribute to a need to be a vision that
everyone can participate in and
contribute to so here’s what you need to
do personally each one of you to stop
recruiting the terrorist groups for
violent groups you need to undermine
terrorist or racist propaganda by living
out the reality of the opposite you need
to create a climate that is inclusive
and positive and welcoming you need to
create a shared vision and you need to
build relationships between people on
the ground so you need to think through
what your vision is with the society you
want to live in and you need to
communicate it to other people you need
to demonstrate if you believe it’s true
that people from different faiths non
faiths different backgrounds can live
together and a very effective tactic in
this strategy is to give the other
people positive experiences of you
whatever your background is someone from
a different background ethnic group
religion to yours needs to have positive
experiences of you again and again this
has actually been shown to be the most
effective way to deconstruct people’s
unconscious prejudices because basically
the reality that the experience of you
doing this is going to override the
police oh they come to share I want you
to think of one thing you
due to undermine destroy the terrorist
messaging create the society that you
want to live in thank you
[Applause]
you can prevent a terrorist attack I
have and I know if you look at me and if
you know I’m professor and if something
useless like theology or philosophy that
doesn’t seem very believable but my
colleagues and I prevented a suicide
bombing that was going to happen in that
big shopping center in Bristol so
whatever your background you can prevent
a terrorist attack doesn’t matter if
you’re Muslim or non-muslim or what
background in fact so far the biggest
haul of explosive and weapons amassed to
commit a terrorist attack in this
country with a mast by a Christian it
was a regular attender of his Anglican
Church intending to kill as many Muslims
as possible it doesn’t matter if you’re
not a police officer
remember the security services or in
government in fact if there’s one thing
that I’ve learned over the last ten
years of working in this area is we
cannot leave this to governments we
cannot entrust them with preventing the
recruitment of people to violent groups
in fact there are particular reasons why
you are more effective at preventing
terrorist recruitment of any kind than
mi5 or the security services in your
country but you do need a strategy and
while that might sound boring there was
a wonderful saying from the podium which
was you might not be interested in
strategy that strategy is interested in
you this is called the management of
savagery
and it came out in 2004 and it was the
manual so to speak the strategy that the
so-called Islamic state Isis was going
to use so here are a few points of their
strategy as foretold in this manual
first of all they want
draw the West into a deeper military
conflict they’re not trying to avoid the
bombing quite the opposite they want to
suck other countries into Middle Eastern
war so that we pour out our blood and
pour out our money into this war
secondly another point they make is they
want people to go for soft targets what
that means is us not soldiers or
assassinating presidents they want to go
for ordinary people like us ordinary
civilians first of all because they
actually want us to drive our societies
into a police state or a security state
so life becomes more and more
intolerable for us with the Muslims that
live in those countries and so that so
much of our energy and resources get
wrapped up in fighting them second
reason though that they want to go for
soft targets because their key message
is the persecution of all Muslims by
non-muslims you want to turn non-muslims
against Muslims in outrage over the
attacks just as they’re trying to turn
rusyns against non-muslims and they want
to persuade Muslims in other countries
that they cannot live there that it’s
impossible to live out your life and
your faith in the country where you are
because the hostility of other people
towards you your faith how you express
it how you dress and another point of
theirs is the kill offer or the
Caliphate because they want you to leave
that country where you are and emigrate
to what they claim is the Islamic state
they’ve created and they claim is an
obligation on all Muslims to come and
migrate and build that state so those
are some features of their strategy now
a lot of people will say the problem is
the ideology problem is the ideology
it’s not foreign policy it’s not poverty
it’s not the alienation or the
Islamophobia that people experience it’s
all about the ideology we have to
eradicate the ideology I think that’s
not very helpful
why it’s a bit like asking why has it
been arise in teenage pregnancy say and
if someone tells you the explanation for
the rise in teenage pregnancies is
because more and more teenagers are
having unprotected sex well obviously
they are what we want to know is why
what we want to know is why some people
are susceptible to this ideology and
some people totally not now
unfortunately for those people that want
quick and easy answers and quick and
easy solutions and they don’t want to
spend too much time thinking about it
there are none academics of course and
others have put forward lots of
different reasons and all of them seem
kind of plausible but they don’t apply
to different cases and in the end the
British security service or mi5 s
concluded there is no one profile there
is no one pattern there’s no one type of
person who becomes a terrorist either
the far-right racist variety or of
al-qaeda inspired or isis types there’s
no one time but i’ve learned that there
are common themes whether you’re talking
about a bedroom online fantasized
warrior or whether you’re talking about
someone who’s already very alienated
already engaging in criminal activities
not at all religious but then finds a
cause and joins a violent group all of
them have something in common and that
is that for whatever reason isis or
whatever groups targeting them it’s
meeting a need that hasn’t been met in
their lives in some more healthy way
it’s meeting a need now we all have core
needs that go beyond air food water
shelter we have psychological needs or a
sense of belonging or acceptance for
bonding with others we also have I
believe higher needs for a sense of
meaning you need to have an impact on
the
world to be able to make a difference we
also have a need to belong to something
greater than ourselves with a great
mission and a great purpose those are
higher needs that are not so easily met
in our society of course we also have
desires that we can live without but are
very very compelling for us so we might
have a need to belong and that’s what we
need in order to be mentally healthy who
have a desire that the group or the
identity that we belong with is
fantastic it’s brilliant it’s better
than others it’s got the right answers
so we have further desires and people
can tap into those desires it can be so
compelling as to be almost addictive but
also a third thing that we also crave a
portrait of ourselves an image of
ourselves that we find appealing and
satisfying or impressive and if you can
dangle that in front of somebody and say
here’s who you are here’s who you can be
if you come with us that is about the
most seductive message that you can hear
we all have our fantasies but our
fantasies especially about ourselves can
be a great source of vulnerability it
can make us very Mull nerble to
manipulation by anyone who can read that
fantasy so if you’re some fantasy is
about glory about power about violence
about being a great warrior or a soldier
about achieving the sort of a steam and
aberration of others a lot of people are
really bewilder if we look at isis in
particular it’s been so spectacularly
successful and recruiting from unlikely
sources they’re bewildered by why happy
well-adjusted successful intelligent
teenagers for example girls and women at
fallen prey or been vulnerable to
recruitment by this group and here’s one
thing to think about
this particular generation of teenagers
of young Muslims ones who have grown up
in the shadow of those falling towers on
9/11 and 7/7 this is the generation that
has grown up in the wake of the
terrorist attacks and the war on terror
and while those attacks are horrific and
evil we also need to recognize the
damage that they’ve done to Muslims
themselves who were not responsible
we’re not involved and don’t sympathize
those attacks not just 9/11 but nine
twelve the impact on these people if you
stop and consider if you’re not Muslim
consider what it must be like to have
spent your life growing up being told
that you are a threat and whatever
support you’ve had from others from your
parents from a small circle the wider
society it’s full of so many negative
images about your being and your
identity have you ever gone online and
read the comments at the bottom of
articles any article to do with Muslims
or security situations or terrorism even
in mainstream papers like The Guardian
or the Washington Post online some of
the comments are horrific vicious and
these are the ones that make it past the
moderators and worse they often go
beyond just talking about specific
terrorists and you will find comments
about all Muslims
I like this deluded violent or danger or
a threat really vicious comments now if
those were about an individual you would
recognize it that’s terrible bullying
and we know that online bullying has
made some people take their lives if
they’re young and very affected by it
the fact that is talking about a group
and doesn’t name you does not make a
difference it’s still about you Isis
in contrast when it’s reaching out to
young people it is full of positive
messages about them
it values them it takes them seriously
it addresses their concerns it
positively love bombs them when they
engage with someone through online media
they have a whole suite of volunteers
doing this when they engage with someone
they can spend literally hundreds of
hours of one-to-one contact responding
to questions responding to the
challenges or reservations that people
make they also like to show their soft
side it was a whole Twitter account
about cats in the Islamic state which
was taken down and this picture this
poor little kitten was rescued from
bombed out ruins by this wonderful man
is so manly and so caring
recruiters know something that
salespeople know and I suspect a few
politicians know it as well if you can
articulate the truths about someone’s
existence and get it right you’ve got
them hooked if you can describe
something about their life and you’ve
hit the nail on the head you’ve suddenly
gained in credibility the one thing that
they’ve talked about that you know about
they were right it was true so when they
go on to talk about other things you’re
not so sure on you begin to give them
the benefit of the doubt and so if Isis
recruiters talk about the aggression in
the hatred that they face as Muslims in
a non Muslim majority country and that
is their experience than they are
credible what this means is that if our
societies are full of antagonism or full
of bullying or full of misrepresentation
terrorists recruiters are credible the
same thing can be said for racist native
it’s supremacist groups what that means
therefore is that we have the power
to make terrorist messaging true or
false so what should that mean for your
for our counterterrorism strategy our
strategy to prevent recruitment to
violent groups first thing I would say
is don’t spin a counter narrative and
here I’m going against years and years
of government strategies because it’s
been a feature for many years in this
country in America and other countries
that we have to have a counter narrative
what that means is that al-qaeda and now
Isis have put together a particular
narrative of that story they tell the
history of the world right down to the
experience of local Muslims that makes
sense within their lands of people’s
experience in the events of history
heroes and villains as you would imagine
so a key plank of many countries
counterterrorism strategy is to have a
counter narrative I think there are some
things wrong with this and one I have to
say is that I’ve never come across a
counter narrative thrilling enough to
compete with what they can come up with
we do better with call of duty or
something like that to give people that
sense of adventure
another problem with it is that many
people who are attracted to violent or
extreme groups obviously have a bit of
the rebel about them a bit of the an
anti-authoritarian streak so pumping up
the government message which they have
to take on board is bound to fall flat
so in fact we should be encouraging
criticism of these cover of our
governments criticism of the
establishment which naturally they would
like to discourage instead of trying to
spin some counter narrative what we need
to do is demonstrate that the terrorist
message whichever side terrorism it is
it’s false through our action
we need to create the reality that
demonstrates that what they’re saying is
not true do you know one of the things
that is making Isis most furious at the
moment over these last few months it’s
not actually the threat of bombing it’s
the mass refugee crisis coming from Iraq
and Syria they are absolutely livid
about it
and are trying to put out their
counter-narrative their counter
propaganda about it in their magazine
why well one reason actually there a
practical reason because a lot of their
revenue and income comes from extortion
and taxation on the local people so the
more people leave the more money they
lose but another reason remember is that
what they say is this is the Islamic
state all Muslims have to make it real
they have to migrate and come here
because I can’t live with non-muslims in
the West and here are hundreds of
thousands of people desperate to get out
of their so-called Islamic state and
come to the west and live in common with
non-muslims so refugees are destroying
the ISIS message by their actions
although that depends on us and our
response to them wouldn’t it be
interesting especially given some of the
political the comments and a political
climate at the moment wouldn’t it be
interesting if one of the most effective
things that we could do to counter Isis
and globally would be to welcome as many
refugees as possible and welcome them as
warmly as possible and make them safe
and welcomed in our countries until it’s
safe for them to go back and create the
country they desire wouldn’t that be
ironic second thing that we need to do
in our counter-terrorist strategy of the
people unlike the government don’t
mass-market propaganda a mass message
will not work instead you have to give
people personal attention
and a lot of it now it’s commonly said
it’s a cliche isn’t it you can’t change
other people you can only change
yourself that’s not entirely true
you can often change other people and
you already know how meet their needs
tap into their desires and offer them a
picture of themselves that is attractive
to them because people will change if it
meets their needs and desires to do so
the recruiters know that people in cults
know that you need to know that and
finally another way that I’m going
against the grain and saying the
counterterrorism strategy of the people
has got to be different from the
counterterrorism strategy of the war on
terror and the government’s don’t preach
about values shared values British
values American values and you must all
subscribe to them and uphold them I’m
all for values that values only
convinced us if we see you living by
them if you want to know what someone’s
values are don’t read their speeches
just follow them around for a few days
you will see what they really value in
fact of our politicians and leaders
really lived out a commitment to peace
and to justice social justice to
economic justice to international
justice then Isis would only appeal to
Psychopaths it’s precisely because
people don’t see our leaders living out
the values that they have that they join
violent groups of one kind or another
and then you find that they can justify
brutality and excessive violence because
it means to an end to achieve their
values so instead of preaching about
values we need to talk about vision
we need to create a vision and a cause
that people find compelling and
attractive and that means it needs to be
a vision that will include everyone who
is part of our society including those
who are alienated and marginalized it
needs to be a vision that young people
can create and we need young people to
contribute to a need to be a vision that
everyone can participate in and
contribute to so here’s what you need to
do personally each one of you to stop
recruiting the terrorist groups for
violent groups you need to undermine
terrorist or racist propaganda by living
out the reality of the opposite you need
to create a climate that is inclusive
and positive and welcoming you need to
create a shared vision and you need to
build relationships between people on
the ground so you need to think through
what your vision is with the society you
want to live in and you need to
communicate it to other people you need
to demonstrate if you believe it’s true
that people from different faiths non
faiths different backgrounds can live
together and a very effective tactic in
this strategy is to give the other
people positive experiences of you
whatever your background is someone from
a different background ethnic group
religion to yours needs to have positive
experiences of you again and again this
has actually been shown to be the most
effective way to deconstruct people’s
unconscious prejudices because basically
the reality that the experience of you
doing this is going to override the
police oh they come to share I want you
to think of one thing you
due to undermine destroy the terrorist
messaging create the society that you
want to live in thank you
[Applause]
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