[Applause]
park thanks for coming I know you just
arrived in Berlin how long will you stay
at least four months four months we’re
starting to think longer already okay
great
you’ve been here you speak German as
well you speak many languages and you’re
involved in let’s say the global
analysis of States you’ve looked into
borders I just realized that actually
when you gave your TED talk and Oxford I
was in the audience
I remember that looking and also
listening to our first two speakers in
the context of our election our action
right now sounds as everything is more
less set mm-hmm
what does this you know tell you about
you know Germany what are you how do you
see this from outside well thank you
Stefan and I first want to praise Chris
and Yasha because they’re talks were
brilliant and it’s a very nice
sequencing almost in Reverse
Jasha says this is an extraordinary time
and he’s right and Chris points out that
we can actually take the challenges of
today and look forward to the
opportunities of the future and in that
light what I want to say is that we
should think about how we can constantly
evolve our political systems of course
we should be proud of liberal democratic
heritage and there’s nothing wrong with
that but to be more neutral if you will
about the times that we’re in the fact
is that what differentiates the past
from the present and the future is the
heightened degree of complexity that we
face in any regime in the world today
whether it is a liberal democracy like a
Germany or the United Kingdom or whether
it is a authoritarian kind of regime
such as we see in Asia in places like
China we all have to grapple with this
complexity and some countries are going
to do it better than others so what I
ask myself is what can we hear whether
it’s in Germany or elsewhere in
neighboring countries what can we learn
about how to grapple with them like how
can we do it better how can we evolve
and that doesn’t mean abandoning liberal
democracy at all what it means is
thinking about how to strengthen the
system how to add on certain elements so
for example social media right which
both Chris and Yasha commented on
can we take those technologies and
incorporate into our governance to make
it more real time how do we get the
voice of the people in an organized way
on an ongoing constant basis not just
waiting every few years for an election
now I think in in Germany what’s
fascinating is of course the degree of
stability I see a lot of Millennials
here a lot of people who fall into that
demographic that Joshua was talking
about people that’s a millennial by that
definition
born after 1980 well about half of the
oh no more I’m pretty much only
remembers having muti as your counselor
yeah so so now for a lot of people that
may mean you know we want change for the
sake of change and that’s exactly the
kind of almost empty not desperate but
almost decadent populism because there’s
nothing about German life that should
make you feel desperate this is not
Egypt under Mubarak right it’s more sort
of this reflex I want change for the
sake of change but let’s do a little bit
more mental homework here what is it
that you would want to change what is it
in not the politics right a new
arrangement of people an obsession with
personality we have plenty of that
already right what I want to stand up
for is policy is a country getting its
policy right and how does it measure it
and there is a way the deep
philosophical tradition utilitarianism
right what are you achieving the
greatest good for the greatest number of
citizens of residents and so forth and
when you see a government that is
striving to create and to modify and
implement policies that do that right
are you maintaining high standards of
Education in health care is your
infrastructure of good quality is your
labor force competitive your industries
competitive are you advancing to new
technologies that’s policy and not
everyone can be an expert in in policy
average men on the street can’t even the
collective voice of the people is not
going to necessarily be an expert it
could drag you in all sorts of crazy
directions but there has to be a
government that has some degree of
knowledge and expertise in these issues
in order to reconcile the voice of the
people
with the demands of a complex world and
to come up with real policies in the
German government to its credit has been
doing that a lot better than others and
that’s part of the reason why we are
where we are
with the election being a foregone
conclusion it’s not necessarily a bad
thing at all it can be quite a good
thing
the alternative is of course waking up
on November the 8th or whatever day it
was the United States and getting an
outcome that you didn’t expect at all
and it is no longer the one that most
people seem to want right and you wrote
a book about the title technocracy in
the US and you look into this states and
governance and what states can actually
learn from other states like practice
this that you’ve been analyzing
Singapore a lot you also looked into
Switzerland what what our findings that
maybe even you know a country like us
can can be learned from from from them
for us and what could that be it’s
interesting Germany is among large
countries so United States large you
know demographically and not just a
geographically but you know whether it’s
whether you’re talking about China or
Brazil or India or Japan Germany is
really Germany Japan standout is
probably the two best governed very
large countries in the world and that’s
if you look at large number of indices
and and and rankings and studies whether
it’s Freedom House or index of democracy
and so forth Germany is really quite
outstanding in this regard but but there
is there are small countries that
innovate very very well and so I focus
on two in particular that it seemed to
be complete opposites from each other
one is Switzerland and the other is
Singapore one is a near almost ancient
democracy the other is only a fifty
two-year-old technocratic Asian country
but they actually have a lot in common
and so some of those things include the
fact that again having a parliamentary
democratic system you know a multi-party
system in Singapore actually one party
dominates but it is a multi-party
formally from the British legacy if you
will inherited that so that’s better
than a two-party system in the United
States where you have this immediate
sort of you know rigid bifurcation of
the system you don’t have any dynamism
if you don’t have at least three parties
because that way you can have coalition
politics and people threatening to jump
around it creates your feet are always
held to the fire in a multi-party system
but one of the most important things
that I found is the importance of the
civil service Germany has a very good
civil service what you’ve seen in the
you
okay and in the US since precisely the
the Thatcher Reagan era is this complete
dismantling of the role of the very
humble faceless bureaucrats you know in
America now they have been really you
know looked upon with great scorn by
Steve Benin who just exited the White
House he used to say he’s been saying we
want to dismantle the deep state and a
number of scholars is wait a minute you
mean that group of people who actually
knows how to run a country those million
or so people who make sure that the
trains run on time who developed tax
policy who checked to make sure the
bridges are functioning who administer
the parks and so forth you want to
actually fire all of them and replace
them with a bunch of no nothing’s great
good luck with that and that’s what the
US has actually been doing since the
1980s it’s what Great Britain has also
been doing since Thatcher and that is
also a very big part of the result today
because you haven’t had people who’ve
been able to have foresight to build
scenarios who are paid to take a little
bit of time to sit aside paid very
little by the way which is why we should
appreciate them to forecast what’s going
on so let’s just take a globalization
and trade in the United States you’ve
had this thing called Trade Adjustment
Assistance
since believe it or not the Kennedy
administration in 1960s jobs are being
lost as they get outsourced how do we
compensate workers how can we retrain
them that amounts to 0.15 percent of
America’s GDP in Denmark it’s about
three point five percent of GDP do you
have the kind of anti-globalization
backlash in Denmark no Beckett or nor in
Switzerland nor in Singapore nor in
Korea nor in Germany in countries where
you have some where you just all you
have to do is sit and look at the
numbers where are jobs going which
industries are shifting because of lower
wages what do we have to do to train the
next generation of students to have the
right skills to compete how do we get
them aligned with industry right all of
the things that in Germany you actually
take for granted because you have been
doing them for decades and doing them
well none of that has happened in
America so you can have all sorts of
philosophical explanations for the rise
of Trump and populist and so forth or
you can look simply at this material
indicators the stagnation of wages for
example that even my Yasha mention is
part of this big picture as well
and you can say what are we going to do
about it and not just what are we gonna
do about it while I’m you know president
or Chancellor for you know a year or two
or three but what are we gonna do for
next ten years 15 years 20 years and
those bureaucrats that civil service
that every country really needs if it
wants to run itself well you have to
have them work on those issues and you
know you can see it all over the ice and
in Germany does again the coalition
politics the strong civil service also
now getting people’s views you know
through social media is also important
here you also have these technical
mechanisms I mean Germany in the grand
Gazette’s you you’re always modifying
there’s new laws there’s thinking about
what to do about privacy and technology
what to do about what are the official
languages in the country you have a way
of reconciling between the Bundestag and
the bundesrat fmet lungs out shows you
don’t have things like that in the u.s.
they’re just winging it after it’s so
funny because in America we say your
oldest continuous functioning democracy
200 plus years in so many areas where
you could have a technical fix you know
like fmet lungs all shows you say let’s
do that and that way we won’t have to
stop government right freeze government
shut down government in order to get a
budget passed yes gift of all these
special committees that are emerging
emergency measures to get things done
well you could also just fix the problem
through a constitutional modification
but in the u.s. you haven’t really
meaningfully modified the Constitution
in a very long time I mean the people
that say that you know the ability to
innovate large countries like also
Germany is just you know super low it’s
like this it’s super hard to do this I
remember a conversation with people that
said the you know the ministries we have
today were actually created by the late
19th century the structure everybody
would say today in 2017 probably the
world has changed we’re still operating
on the same operating system Ministry of
Defense you know we have the same
structure same employees right the same
thing they still also they work in silos
like they do they should operate much
more they could happen whatsapp group
maybe right probably start of that right
so so
so how do you bring innovation in there
but also how can you rethink government
as a whole I mean how could he do that
do you think we can do this in Germany I
mean the tremors you know Western
liberal democracies are going to have an
executive branch or legislative branch
additional branch civil service various
you know ministries and agencies and
there’s no need to necessarily change
that but how they work together matters
it’s funny you mention though I mean
it’s in the United States you can
continue to multiply the number of
bureaucracies rather than consolidating
them here if you go to tour Strasse
actually you’ll see the the Buddhist
minister who via chaplain energy right
so there used to be two separate things
right vid shaft and Aggie but actually
this government in last five six years
is it wait a minute how can you really
plan an economy without thinking about
the cost and the sources of energy to
fuel whether industry technology various
sectors so there actually have been
fused together I wish we would actually
see a lot more of that around the world
because that would actually create these
conversations that you’re saying rightly
so are absolutely necessary I need that
so and we need to end which is very sad
I think would be great to have more time
a short answer on Europe like if you
look at Germany right now where we are
we are a relevant force in Europe
looking at this is well enough from in a
global perspective what does it mean for
Europe and you know Europe has been
challenged and many people now say that
nothing you know it was Trump was the
best thing that ever happened to Europe
because for the first time people say
it’s so great to be European because
actually you want to say it’s great not
to be American right now but I doubt
that the identity and the emotion right
you know for the European idea is
stronger but I think maybe there’s a
chance like how do you see this from
from outside just quickly I mean
Europeans should rightly not just
because of Trump I hope have a lot more
confidence in their political systems
again according to all the political
science research on the quality of
democracy pretty much 19 of the 20 you
know best rated countries in the world
in terms of quality of government a
government are European democracies
right so you should rather be where you
are and who you are now at the European
level though in terms
global influence of course you know I
believe the EU has to stick together
fortunately the eurozone has there are
certain issues like austerity and
immigration where if you take an
analytical view you would say wait a
minute
you know the austerity that’s been
imposed if you will on people has not
been has not been certainly from
utilitarian perspective has not
generated results right crushing
people’s you know wages and enforcing
higher savings is not going to drive
growth and consumption and economic
rebound so that shouldn’t if that
mistake should have been made in the
first place when it comes to immigration
Europe is a collection of countries with
largely sub-replacement fertility rates
and very significant labor mismatches
between what citizens and indigenous
people do and what immigrants can do so
again a technocratic approach would say
let’s we have to have more immigrants
otherwise we will die but let’s figure
out how to phase them in into certain
sectors and control it so it’s not
overwhelming so I do believe that there
are rational approaches to this and it
may not gonna it’s not gonna work at the
whole pan-european level all at once we
know that’s not how Europe operates but
I really hope Germany can be a great
example
it certainly is already by having the
stability and the government by being
really the leader of Europe and other
countries can learn from everything that
Germany is doing in terms of language
integration for example you know there’s
there’s great things going on here and
and if you’re up following what you were
saying earlier not just countries across
the world learning from each other but
just European countries then hopefully
we’ll start to see the collective hold
itself together better than it has been
well it sounds like an exciting time
last question what is your focus here in
the four months and Berlin it’s going to
be about Asia actually explaining Asia
if you will to the West more broadly but
also getting European views on Asia
because in fact a lot of us have grown
up if you’re if you’re not a millennial
if you’re a little bit older you know in
this world where the transatlantic
economic and strategic relationship was
the fundamental anchor of global
geopolitics and economics but actually
today the European Union trades more
with Asia than it does with in North
America a lot more and you probably
didn’t didn’t know that so you’re
already Europe as a whole is already
strategically reorienting itself towards
Asia on the other end of this great
Eurasian landmass even if
you’re intellectually ideologically
linguistically or in values if you feel
that there is this transatlantic Western
community believe it or not there is
this Eurasian community that’s coming
together and it’s going to be I believe
the great geopolitical story of the 21st
century antastic
we’re looking forward to hear from you
absolute might happen to that’s also
very soon hopefully when you hear thanks
for coming and you know it’s sharing the
time with us and thanks to you
pericana thanks for quick
park thanks for coming I know you just
arrived in Berlin how long will you stay
at least four months four months we’re
starting to think longer already okay
great
you’ve been here you speak German as
well you speak many languages and you’re
involved in let’s say the global
analysis of States you’ve looked into
borders I just realized that actually
when you gave your TED talk and Oxford I
was in the audience
I remember that looking and also
listening to our first two speakers in
the context of our election our action
right now sounds as everything is more
less set mm-hmm
what does this you know tell you about
you know Germany what are you how do you
see this from outside well thank you
Stefan and I first want to praise Chris
and Yasha because they’re talks were
brilliant and it’s a very nice
sequencing almost in Reverse
Jasha says this is an extraordinary time
and he’s right and Chris points out that
we can actually take the challenges of
today and look forward to the
opportunities of the future and in that
light what I want to say is that we
should think about how we can constantly
evolve our political systems of course
we should be proud of liberal democratic
heritage and there’s nothing wrong with
that but to be more neutral if you will
about the times that we’re in the fact
is that what differentiates the past
from the present and the future is the
heightened degree of complexity that we
face in any regime in the world today
whether it is a liberal democracy like a
Germany or the United Kingdom or whether
it is a authoritarian kind of regime
such as we see in Asia in places like
China we all have to grapple with this
complexity and some countries are going
to do it better than others so what I
ask myself is what can we hear whether
it’s in Germany or elsewhere in
neighboring countries what can we learn
about how to grapple with them like how
can we do it better how can we evolve
and that doesn’t mean abandoning liberal
democracy at all what it means is
thinking about how to strengthen the
system how to add on certain elements so
for example social media right which
both Chris and Yasha commented on
can we take those technologies and
incorporate into our governance to make
it more real time how do we get the
voice of the people in an organized way
on an ongoing constant basis not just
waiting every few years for an election
now I think in in Germany what’s
fascinating is of course the degree of
stability I see a lot of Millennials
here a lot of people who fall into that
demographic that Joshua was talking
about people that’s a millennial by that
definition
born after 1980 well about half of the
oh no more I’m pretty much only
remembers having muti as your counselor
yeah so so now for a lot of people that
may mean you know we want change for the
sake of change and that’s exactly the
kind of almost empty not desperate but
almost decadent populism because there’s
nothing about German life that should
make you feel desperate this is not
Egypt under Mubarak right it’s more sort
of this reflex I want change for the
sake of change but let’s do a little bit
more mental homework here what is it
that you would want to change what is it
in not the politics right a new
arrangement of people an obsession with
personality we have plenty of that
already right what I want to stand up
for is policy is a country getting its
policy right and how does it measure it
and there is a way the deep
philosophical tradition utilitarianism
right what are you achieving the
greatest good for the greatest number of
citizens of residents and so forth and
when you see a government that is
striving to create and to modify and
implement policies that do that right
are you maintaining high standards of
Education in health care is your
infrastructure of good quality is your
labor force competitive your industries
competitive are you advancing to new
technologies that’s policy and not
everyone can be an expert in in policy
average men on the street can’t even the
collective voice of the people is not
going to necessarily be an expert it
could drag you in all sorts of crazy
directions but there has to be a
government that has some degree of
knowledge and expertise in these issues
in order to reconcile the voice of the
people
with the demands of a complex world and
to come up with real policies in the
German government to its credit has been
doing that a lot better than others and
that’s part of the reason why we are
where we are
with the election being a foregone
conclusion it’s not necessarily a bad
thing at all it can be quite a good
thing
the alternative is of course waking up
on November the 8th or whatever day it
was the United States and getting an
outcome that you didn’t expect at all
and it is no longer the one that most
people seem to want right and you wrote
a book about the title technocracy in
the US and you look into this states and
governance and what states can actually
learn from other states like practice
this that you’ve been analyzing
Singapore a lot you also looked into
Switzerland what what our findings that
maybe even you know a country like us
can can be learned from from from them
for us and what could that be it’s
interesting Germany is among large
countries so United States large you
know demographically and not just a
geographically but you know whether it’s
whether you’re talking about China or
Brazil or India or Japan Germany is
really Germany Japan standout is
probably the two best governed very
large countries in the world and that’s
if you look at large number of indices
and and and rankings and studies whether
it’s Freedom House or index of democracy
and so forth Germany is really quite
outstanding in this regard but but there
is there are small countries that
innovate very very well and so I focus
on two in particular that it seemed to
be complete opposites from each other
one is Switzerland and the other is
Singapore one is a near almost ancient
democracy the other is only a fifty
two-year-old technocratic Asian country
but they actually have a lot in common
and so some of those things include the
fact that again having a parliamentary
democratic system you know a multi-party
system in Singapore actually one party
dominates but it is a multi-party
formally from the British legacy if you
will inherited that so that’s better
than a two-party system in the United
States where you have this immediate
sort of you know rigid bifurcation of
the system you don’t have any dynamism
if you don’t have at least three parties
because that way you can have coalition
politics and people threatening to jump
around it creates your feet are always
held to the fire in a multi-party system
but one of the most important things
that I found is the importance of the
civil service Germany has a very good
civil service what you’ve seen in the
you
okay and in the US since precisely the
the Thatcher Reagan era is this complete
dismantling of the role of the very
humble faceless bureaucrats you know in
America now they have been really you
know looked upon with great scorn by
Steve Benin who just exited the White
House he used to say he’s been saying we
want to dismantle the deep state and a
number of scholars is wait a minute you
mean that group of people who actually
knows how to run a country those million
or so people who make sure that the
trains run on time who developed tax
policy who checked to make sure the
bridges are functioning who administer
the parks and so forth you want to
actually fire all of them and replace
them with a bunch of no nothing’s great
good luck with that and that’s what the
US has actually been doing since the
1980s it’s what Great Britain has also
been doing since Thatcher and that is
also a very big part of the result today
because you haven’t had people who’ve
been able to have foresight to build
scenarios who are paid to take a little
bit of time to sit aside paid very
little by the way which is why we should
appreciate them to forecast what’s going
on so let’s just take a globalization
and trade in the United States you’ve
had this thing called Trade Adjustment
Assistance
since believe it or not the Kennedy
administration in 1960s jobs are being
lost as they get outsourced how do we
compensate workers how can we retrain
them that amounts to 0.15 percent of
America’s GDP in Denmark it’s about
three point five percent of GDP do you
have the kind of anti-globalization
backlash in Denmark no Beckett or nor in
Switzerland nor in Singapore nor in
Korea nor in Germany in countries where
you have some where you just all you
have to do is sit and look at the
numbers where are jobs going which
industries are shifting because of lower
wages what do we have to do to train the
next generation of students to have the
right skills to compete how do we get
them aligned with industry right all of
the things that in Germany you actually
take for granted because you have been
doing them for decades and doing them
well none of that has happened in
America so you can have all sorts of
philosophical explanations for the rise
of Trump and populist and so forth or
you can look simply at this material
indicators the stagnation of wages for
example that even my Yasha mention is
part of this big picture as well
and you can say what are we going to do
about it and not just what are we gonna
do about it while I’m you know president
or Chancellor for you know a year or two
or three but what are we gonna do for
next ten years 15 years 20 years and
those bureaucrats that civil service
that every country really needs if it
wants to run itself well you have to
have them work on those issues and you
know you can see it all over the ice and
in Germany does again the coalition
politics the strong civil service also
now getting people’s views you know
through social media is also important
here you also have these technical
mechanisms I mean Germany in the grand
Gazette’s you you’re always modifying
there’s new laws there’s thinking about
what to do about privacy and technology
what to do about what are the official
languages in the country you have a way
of reconciling between the Bundestag and
the bundesrat fmet lungs out shows you
don’t have things like that in the u.s.
they’re just winging it after it’s so
funny because in America we say your
oldest continuous functioning democracy
200 plus years in so many areas where
you could have a technical fix you know
like fmet lungs all shows you say let’s
do that and that way we won’t have to
stop government right freeze government
shut down government in order to get a
budget passed yes gift of all these
special committees that are emerging
emergency measures to get things done
well you could also just fix the problem
through a constitutional modification
but in the u.s. you haven’t really
meaningfully modified the Constitution
in a very long time I mean the people
that say that you know the ability to
innovate large countries like also
Germany is just you know super low it’s
like this it’s super hard to do this I
remember a conversation with people that
said the you know the ministries we have
today were actually created by the late
19th century the structure everybody
would say today in 2017 probably the
world has changed we’re still operating
on the same operating system Ministry of
Defense you know we have the same
structure same employees right the same
thing they still also they work in silos
like they do they should operate much
more they could happen whatsapp group
maybe right probably start of that right
so so
so how do you bring innovation in there
but also how can you rethink government
as a whole I mean how could he do that
do you think we can do this in Germany I
mean the tremors you know Western
liberal democracies are going to have an
executive branch or legislative branch
additional branch civil service various
you know ministries and agencies and
there’s no need to necessarily change
that but how they work together matters
it’s funny you mention though I mean
it’s in the United States you can
continue to multiply the number of
bureaucracies rather than consolidating
them here if you go to tour Strasse
actually you’ll see the the Buddhist
minister who via chaplain energy right
so there used to be two separate things
right vid shaft and Aggie but actually
this government in last five six years
is it wait a minute how can you really
plan an economy without thinking about
the cost and the sources of energy to
fuel whether industry technology various
sectors so there actually have been
fused together I wish we would actually
see a lot more of that around the world
because that would actually create these
conversations that you’re saying rightly
so are absolutely necessary I need that
so and we need to end which is very sad
I think would be great to have more time
a short answer on Europe like if you
look at Germany right now where we are
we are a relevant force in Europe
looking at this is well enough from in a
global perspective what does it mean for
Europe and you know Europe has been
challenged and many people now say that
nothing you know it was Trump was the
best thing that ever happened to Europe
because for the first time people say
it’s so great to be European because
actually you want to say it’s great not
to be American right now but I doubt
that the identity and the emotion right
you know for the European idea is
stronger but I think maybe there’s a
chance like how do you see this from
from outside just quickly I mean
Europeans should rightly not just
because of Trump I hope have a lot more
confidence in their political systems
again according to all the political
science research on the quality of
democracy pretty much 19 of the 20 you
know best rated countries in the world
in terms of quality of government a
government are European democracies
right so you should rather be where you
are and who you are now at the European
level though in terms
global influence of course you know I
believe the EU has to stick together
fortunately the eurozone has there are
certain issues like austerity and
immigration where if you take an
analytical view you would say wait a
minute
you know the austerity that’s been
imposed if you will on people has not
been has not been certainly from
utilitarian perspective has not
generated results right crushing
people’s you know wages and enforcing
higher savings is not going to drive
growth and consumption and economic
rebound so that shouldn’t if that
mistake should have been made in the
first place when it comes to immigration
Europe is a collection of countries with
largely sub-replacement fertility rates
and very significant labor mismatches
between what citizens and indigenous
people do and what immigrants can do so
again a technocratic approach would say
let’s we have to have more immigrants
otherwise we will die but let’s figure
out how to phase them in into certain
sectors and control it so it’s not
overwhelming so I do believe that there
are rational approaches to this and it
may not gonna it’s not gonna work at the
whole pan-european level all at once we
know that’s not how Europe operates but
I really hope Germany can be a great
example
it certainly is already by having the
stability and the government by being
really the leader of Europe and other
countries can learn from everything that
Germany is doing in terms of language
integration for example you know there’s
there’s great things going on here and
and if you’re up following what you were
saying earlier not just countries across
the world learning from each other but
just European countries then hopefully
we’ll start to see the collective hold
itself together better than it has been
well it sounds like an exciting time
last question what is your focus here in
the four months and Berlin it’s going to
be about Asia actually explaining Asia
if you will to the West more broadly but
also getting European views on Asia
because in fact a lot of us have grown
up if you’re if you’re not a millennial
if you’re a little bit older you know in
this world where the transatlantic
economic and strategic relationship was
the fundamental anchor of global
geopolitics and economics but actually
today the European Union trades more
with Asia than it does with in North
America a lot more and you probably
didn’t didn’t know that so you’re
already Europe as a whole is already
strategically reorienting itself towards
Asia on the other end of this great
Eurasian landmass even if
you’re intellectually ideologically
linguistically or in values if you feel
that there is this transatlantic Western
community believe it or not there is
this Eurasian community that’s coming
together and it’s going to be I believe
the great geopolitical story of the 21st
century antastic
we’re looking forward to hear from you
absolute might happen to that’s also
very soon hopefully when you hear thanks
for coming and you know it’s sharing the
time with us and thanks to you
pericana thanks for quick
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