let’s just confirm is there such a thing
as magic
let’s just be absolutely clear here is
there such a thing what is magic it
depends on what you mean I mean there’s
an experience of magic and I think so it
like the word hypnosis I think it’s a
simile it’s a sort of an experience of
something if you actually break it down
then no clearly there’s nothing
happening I don’t think that’s magic in
that sense of you know wizardry but the
experience of it is something we can
identify as magic sorry I lost what does
that mean the experience of it well in
it looks like magic if somebody that yes
yeah it looks like magic and smells like
magic and sounds like magic and it’s
being presented in a sort of a framework
that’s theatrical and safe and secular
so you kind of go yeah okay that’s that
was a that was a magical trick but you
know also not to stay up all night
worrying about it too much because you
know it’s just a trick and and you said
that the people who were best suited to
be your audience are people who were
suggesting to suggest in it for certain
for certain trick certain illusions
people who is suggestible what is it to
be suggestible about am i suggested or
how what is a suggestible person what
can one tell if was in the presence of a
suggestible purse
um you’re probably not and I think this
is a trick this is a double double but
it what what suggestibility is this sort
of it’s a very ordinary everyday thing
really it’s a kind of it’s a sort of
emotional openness so people that
emotionally quite easily lead normally
sociable open again to use that word on
me sort of people the opposite of people
that maybe take a detached viewpoint and
sort of observe and and have that kind
of three or four steps back from life
I’m I’m not very suggestible I imagine
sure I know you’re like now but what
happens so you you you’ll tell them
something and they will very easily be
led I mean yeah but if it happens it
happens all the time we know even those
of us that aren’t very suggestible we
all have experiences where we are you
might go and see a doctor and you sudden
you’re in a relationship where you
become very suggests when you have an
authority figure since doctor said
there’s a giant tumor raising at it you
know if there was absolute nothing you
would believe it because the doctors or
more likely if a doctor gives you a
placebo and says this fool this will
work it’ll work something to pick up now
if you’re if you’re naturally
suggestible you are much more responsive
to placebo but we all become a bit
responsive to that sort of thing because
suddenly we’re in that relationship that
you know and we’d like that but doctors
were like it with teachers but like it
with a lot of authority figures and
because of course when we were little
and mum said don’t touch that it’s hot
we didn’t I mean to question everything
would be ridiculous and you become that
figure in your ears you become that yeah
medical authority Authority freak on you
and you you play that role and you use
the tricks to sort of make that like
that well and is that is it frightening
to you sometimes with what ease people
you know that you could just get someone
to you know do something absolutely
extraordinary just by looking them in
the eye and telling them it’s very
important that you do this now it’s not
that because that’s sort of what it
tends to look like there’s the other
fifty who said no way well no I just
think I you never quite know of course
what’s going on the other people’s the
person said I used to do it and what I
used to do a stage show if it knows his
years ago when I was starting
out and at the end I make myself
invisible there’s quite service standard
hoary hypnotist um so you know you might
used to what you stop make your I would
make us visible yeah how is that
possible you can see not so alright so
maybe I’ve got ten people on stage yeah
they’re all very good subjects is one of
the last things I do in the show and I
would say when you open your eyes you
have got to see me better to see
everything else you are going to see me
you’ll think I’ve left the stage but
afterwards I wanted to do a Q&A
afterwards and I’d get the same people
I’d say what actually you know what
actually happened on on the range of
experience from one and we knew you were
there we were just sort of playing along
because you know we’re on stage through
to a kind of what I sort of knew you
were there like I just was very genuine
reaction I was genuinely terrified that
no one cause what I think back of noise
because of course of course you were
there and then the other end of the
spectrum that was just floating and I
have no icon do you when there was
nobody there that was just floating in
it we don’t where were you and it was
sort of fairly evenly spread there was a
dipper at this end of the spectrum and
absolutely you know which are single
thing floating others we’re playing long
you never know because it looks the same
and you never know whether those people
at the end who are saying no that really
well was floating are they just saying
it because they want to be the best
people in the group you know you’re
never really never any but you’ll say
there’s not there’s a Williams I mean if
if we said you know this bottle is now
going to fly around the room there would
be a certain portion of the audits that
would really want the bottle to fly
rather because it will be fun
it would be a different kind of evening
normal school of life evening and they
could tell their friends and or dessert
there’s a predisposition that the bottle
flies around if you saw me in half with
one legs over their head over there and
we want this to be possible right
there’s an impulse in us because cuz
that would be fun right yes exactly so I
think it plays so do you know and there
are plenty of people that respond very
well to hypnosis on stage but in a
one-on-one setting aren’t at all and
others that work very well one-on-one
but on stage they know they do they’re
uncomfortable it doesn’t work so I was
saying that only that the power aspect
of it isn’t really quite what it looks
like because it vanities always much
more sort of complex and you realize
that it’s a sort of it’s a game that
you’re sort of playing with people and
their consent is is very important and
you never quite know whether you know if
you were using it for some sort of
nefarious reason you never quite know
whether they
just sort of playing along at some point
they’re gonna go sorry can we just stop
this because this is you know and you
wouldn’t get away with it or whether
they could you could you imagine
I mean you’ve studied you know Milgram
etc we’re talking to about in a minute
but you’ve studied mass persuasion etc
do you do you feel that some of these
techniques could be used really quite
malevolently you know we’re talking
fascism etc all these techniques open to
to abuse well and says they are
historically they they have been I I it
may just be my temperament I always I
always err on thinking and that it’s not
as powerful as as it as it looks and I
I’ve I when I first started out I saw
everything in terms of suggestion I you
know really was this for me everything
was this extraordinary kind of tool and
now I kind of tend to step back and
think well it’s it’s not it’s just
behavior it’s just people’s behavior and
things there is like self-confidence in
terms of suggestion etc you know the
whole sort of placebo effect there is
this capacity to give people confidence
that they didn’t know they had so how
does that work how can you make someone
more conflict I think I think I think
stories are very interesting in life and
very important in life and if you go and
see a you go and see a film and it says
at the beginning based on a true story
you know when you see those words that
what you’re going to see is not a
perfect telling of the events that
happened you’re going to see a neatened
version with a beginning middle and an
end
perhaps some characters might be sort of
conflated into one another you’re clear
here over the rest of it so you have a
natural sort of skepticism that comes
into play
likewise if somebody tells you a story
of what happened the other night or an
argument they got into or some
outrageous behavior that you know you
you know there’s another side to that
story you apply a natural sort of
skepticism we very rarely think of
applying the same skepticism which
ourselves and the stories that we tell
ourselves about our own lives which of
course are the most important stories
that we have and I did a
c’mon on receiver where we gave we set
up a whole elaborate thing to make
people think they were getting a super
drug that would do various things
depending on what group they’re in so
there was one group they were told it
removes the experience of fear and the
other group so that would stop them
smoking and so on and it was really
interesting to me because that what
became clear is that irrespective of
what rivet is whether it’s topping at a
smoke or people terrible crippling
anxieties or allergies was another one
that responded very well to it that
these things are really tied in with the
stories we tell ourselves and if you
give your self permission or sometimes
it easier if somebody gives you
permission or you give someone else
version to just change the story to act
out of character to act as if the thing
is no longer a problem
it’s a very simple shift and with that
the people that give up smoking in an
instant and never go back to it never
have any trouble with it other people
that decide I’m going to be a nonsmoker
so they change their story they change
that sort of identity that label as
opposed to alright I must I must not
smoke I must try not to smoke which of
course you it’s stressful and you fail
you give up with them on you when you do
eventually have one who they want failed
it’s all gone wrong magic is about
stories that we tell ourselves you you
show somebody an A B and a C a story
beginning middle and end there’s an
impossible story seemingly because the
reality is it’s a bit like you know
based on a true story in a film you know
that what you’re seeing is the tidied up
version so the realities between a and B
there’s all sorts of other stuff that
happened and B and C other stuff
happened but we were given a full story
so these stories we tell ourselves great
these very powerful illusions and I
think we have to we should
harness those stories and I think that
tell me so the first step is is living a
story having a store in your life and
had living some sort of considered life
I think is important and there was a
time when philosophy and psychology was
sort of the same thing and and
philosophy was about what it was to
flourish and what it was to live well
and then that sort of became lost and so
I got became much of a dryer thing and
became about language and analysis and
not really about and living well that
became sort of an embarrassing thing
that normally spoke about so that got
left to self-help guru
and now that’s sort of we’re left with
this kind of positive thinking idea this
idea that we can kind of control the
world and the universe and our destinies
by thinking positively or or even that
the universe cares that we can send
wishes that the universe and it will it
will reciprocate and it’s all that stuff
just creates terrible anxiety because it
fails and it’s not it’s not a really or
we’ve reached our goals and then don’t
know what to do next or fixate so much
on trying to achieve things in the
future and we fed that quite insidiously
from a young age you know we’re Alan
Watts has this nice thing about if you
go and if you go to a concert you got
here a piece of music you don’t just
just you don’t just go for the end you
don’t just go for the climax at the end
you know you go over the whole piece of
music but from an early age you know
we’re taught about what are you going to
do you can do these in levels so you can
do this at university so you can go and
study that and then it just as you then
you’re studying and then you’re looking
forward to the career then you’re doing
your job but now you’re looking forward
to this promotion or that promotion and
life has happened as shobhona says in a
dinger emits just sort of happened in in
the meanwhile and we didn’t realise it
was supposed to be like a piece of music
you were supposed to dance along the way
and I think these things I think these
things are important and then so there’s
a sort of a framework that I think there
and I think then after that it’s about
realizing that the happiness is a bit
like a the rainbow that symbolizes
happiness is a good symbol for it you
know you try and approach it directly it
dissipates and disappears so you find
these securities routes to it which
again the Greeks and the ancients were
very very hot on finding these ways of
maybe it was about tranquility maybe
wasn’t that being happy as such it was
about removing anxiety and being
tranquil our achieving this ataraxia as
they call it which is what the Stoics
for example and the Epicureans and
others a lot of you all know about
obviously with the school of life and
Alan’s sort of bringing back and is now
something become a much more popular
idea as psychology has become launched
it again in what makes the good life of
people and as philosophy is also
starting to this is sort of marriage
that’s sort of you know that being
divorced 400 years now that sort of
coming back together and it’s
I think it’s very exciting and I’m
working on a book I’m starting to kind
of I’ve been sort of in the background
writing a book for the last six months
and will do so for another six months on
that kind of subject and which are
happiness happiness yeah I’m philosophy
yeah yeah and I think there’s there’s a
lot that a lot of ideas that have sort
of got lost that I think are really rich
and they sort of get hijacked by
self-help people which it’s not you know
it’s just bad as I said saw the bad
science or it’s about you know if you
think about it every success story you
read every you know every entrepreneur
that says you’ve just got to focus on
what you want ignore all the naysayers
there’ll be people that will try and
bring you down you’ve got to ignore them
you focus and you believe and you keep
chasing that goal and that’s how I got
successful that is also a perfect recipe
for failure it’s exactly how you fail
that’s how you felt but the difference
is the people that failed aren’t writing
those biographies so you know it’s true
so you have this perfect sort of perfect
sort of confirmation bias you’ve got
this great sample of people that have
told themselves a self-serving story
that they’re successful because I’m they
committed and they ignored all these
people which is rubbish what we actually
do we actually live an X an x equals y
axis so along the x axis you’ve got all
the things you want to achieve in life
and on the y axis you’ve got all the
things that life throws at you fortune
as they used to call it we don’t sort of
read don’t really allow for fortune
anymore which is a huge shame and we
live this thing in the middle and
Schopenhauer knew it and Freud knew all
the psychoanalysis was when Freud
started was just about restoring what he
called natural happiness it wasn’t about
being really happy it was about of
course life generally but I’m happy and
will just restore you to that as opposed
to unnatural happiness the people like
you’re carrying around with it so once
we sort of realized that and it’s not
you don’t you can’t control you know
it’s not about setting goals and then
deciding every aspect of what your life
is going to be about that that x equals
y line is actually what life sort of is
and then you can maneuver within that of
course you can maneuver that around you
can take control where it’s so useful to
do so but we just we just fed so much
nonsense we fed this sort of you know
you just got to keep
believing positively and of course it
just creates failure a just because it
doesn’t doesn’t allow for actually what
does go on in life which is much more
subtle and you’ve said but I thought was
such a lovely such a lovely thought
that we need to rediscover tragedy
because that’s what are you properly all
know this could you from around very
well but Sir this idea of you know the
Greeks knew about fortune and that was
something that was people were very
aware of it you know you said yourself
we people that are poor now we refer to
them as not literally financial people
we’ve heard of people as losers now as
they used to be unfortunates and that
somehow they’ve lost the game now is
such a such a brilliant thought and that
maybe rediscovering tragedy at some
level as is one way of discovering it so
yes I wish yeah sorry a lot to say
that’s a very beautiful and
comprehensive answer it’s so sad but
we’ve got to end it there but please
come back and visit us you’ve been
fantastic so interesting and thank you
so much Darren brown for coming to visit [Applause]
as magic
let’s just be absolutely clear here is
there such a thing what is magic it
depends on what you mean I mean there’s
an experience of magic and I think so it
like the word hypnosis I think it’s a
simile it’s a sort of an experience of
something if you actually break it down
then no clearly there’s nothing
happening I don’t think that’s magic in
that sense of you know wizardry but the
experience of it is something we can
identify as magic sorry I lost what does
that mean the experience of it well in
it looks like magic if somebody that yes
yeah it looks like magic and smells like
magic and sounds like magic and it’s
being presented in a sort of a framework
that’s theatrical and safe and secular
so you kind of go yeah okay that’s that
was a that was a magical trick but you
know also not to stay up all night
worrying about it too much because you
know it’s just a trick and and you said
that the people who were best suited to
be your audience are people who were
suggesting to suggest in it for certain
for certain trick certain illusions
people who is suggestible what is it to
be suggestible about am i suggested or
how what is a suggestible person what
can one tell if was in the presence of a
suggestible purse
um you’re probably not and I think this
is a trick this is a double double but
it what what suggestibility is this sort
of it’s a very ordinary everyday thing
really it’s a kind of it’s a sort of
emotional openness so people that
emotionally quite easily lead normally
sociable open again to use that word on
me sort of people the opposite of people
that maybe take a detached viewpoint and
sort of observe and and have that kind
of three or four steps back from life
I’m I’m not very suggestible I imagine
sure I know you’re like now but what
happens so you you you’ll tell them
something and they will very easily be
led I mean yeah but if it happens it
happens all the time we know even those
of us that aren’t very suggestible we
all have experiences where we are you
might go and see a doctor and you sudden
you’re in a relationship where you
become very suggests when you have an
authority figure since doctor said
there’s a giant tumor raising at it you
know if there was absolute nothing you
would believe it because the doctors or
more likely if a doctor gives you a
placebo and says this fool this will
work it’ll work something to pick up now
if you’re if you’re naturally
suggestible you are much more responsive
to placebo but we all become a bit
responsive to that sort of thing because
suddenly we’re in that relationship that
you know and we’d like that but doctors
were like it with teachers but like it
with a lot of authority figures and
because of course when we were little
and mum said don’t touch that it’s hot
we didn’t I mean to question everything
would be ridiculous and you become that
figure in your ears you become that yeah
medical authority Authority freak on you
and you you play that role and you use
the tricks to sort of make that like
that well and is that is it frightening
to you sometimes with what ease people
you know that you could just get someone
to you know do something absolutely
extraordinary just by looking them in
the eye and telling them it’s very
important that you do this now it’s not
that because that’s sort of what it
tends to look like there’s the other
fifty who said no way well no I just
think I you never quite know of course
what’s going on the other people’s the
person said I used to do it and what I
used to do a stage show if it knows his
years ago when I was starting
out and at the end I make myself
invisible there’s quite service standard
hoary hypnotist um so you know you might
used to what you stop make your I would
make us visible yeah how is that
possible you can see not so alright so
maybe I’ve got ten people on stage yeah
they’re all very good subjects is one of
the last things I do in the show and I
would say when you open your eyes you
have got to see me better to see
everything else you are going to see me
you’ll think I’ve left the stage but
afterwards I wanted to do a Q&A
afterwards and I’d get the same people
I’d say what actually you know what
actually happened on on the range of
experience from one and we knew you were
there we were just sort of playing along
because you know we’re on stage through
to a kind of what I sort of knew you
were there like I just was very genuine
reaction I was genuinely terrified that
no one cause what I think back of noise
because of course of course you were
there and then the other end of the
spectrum that was just floating and I
have no icon do you when there was
nobody there that was just floating in
it we don’t where were you and it was
sort of fairly evenly spread there was a
dipper at this end of the spectrum and
absolutely you know which are single
thing floating others we’re playing long
you never know because it looks the same
and you never know whether those people
at the end who are saying no that really
well was floating are they just saying
it because they want to be the best
people in the group you know you’re
never really never any but you’ll say
there’s not there’s a Williams I mean if
if we said you know this bottle is now
going to fly around the room there would
be a certain portion of the audits that
would really want the bottle to fly
rather because it will be fun
it would be a different kind of evening
normal school of life evening and they
could tell their friends and or dessert
there’s a predisposition that the bottle
flies around if you saw me in half with
one legs over their head over there and
we want this to be possible right
there’s an impulse in us because cuz
that would be fun right yes exactly so I
think it plays so do you know and there
are plenty of people that respond very
well to hypnosis on stage but in a
one-on-one setting aren’t at all and
others that work very well one-on-one
but on stage they know they do they’re
uncomfortable it doesn’t work so I was
saying that only that the power aspect
of it isn’t really quite what it looks
like because it vanities always much
more sort of complex and you realize
that it’s a sort of it’s a game that
you’re sort of playing with people and
their consent is is very important and
you never quite know whether you know if
you were using it for some sort of
nefarious reason you never quite know
whether they
just sort of playing along at some point
they’re gonna go sorry can we just stop
this because this is you know and you
wouldn’t get away with it or whether
they could you could you imagine
I mean you’ve studied you know Milgram
etc we’re talking to about in a minute
but you’ve studied mass persuasion etc
do you do you feel that some of these
techniques could be used really quite
malevolently you know we’re talking
fascism etc all these techniques open to
to abuse well and says they are
historically they they have been I I it
may just be my temperament I always I
always err on thinking and that it’s not
as powerful as as it as it looks and I
I’ve I when I first started out I saw
everything in terms of suggestion I you
know really was this for me everything
was this extraordinary kind of tool and
now I kind of tend to step back and
think well it’s it’s not it’s just
behavior it’s just people’s behavior and
things there is like self-confidence in
terms of suggestion etc you know the
whole sort of placebo effect there is
this capacity to give people confidence
that they didn’t know they had so how
does that work how can you make someone
more conflict I think I think I think
stories are very interesting in life and
very important in life and if you go and
see a you go and see a film and it says
at the beginning based on a true story
you know when you see those words that
what you’re going to see is not a
perfect telling of the events that
happened you’re going to see a neatened
version with a beginning middle and an
end
perhaps some characters might be sort of
conflated into one another you’re clear
here over the rest of it so you have a
natural sort of skepticism that comes
into play
likewise if somebody tells you a story
of what happened the other night or an
argument they got into or some
outrageous behavior that you know you
you know there’s another side to that
story you apply a natural sort of
skepticism we very rarely think of
applying the same skepticism which
ourselves and the stories that we tell
ourselves about our own lives which of
course are the most important stories
that we have and I did a
c’mon on receiver where we gave we set
up a whole elaborate thing to make
people think they were getting a super
drug that would do various things
depending on what group they’re in so
there was one group they were told it
removes the experience of fear and the
other group so that would stop them
smoking and so on and it was really
interesting to me because that what
became clear is that irrespective of
what rivet is whether it’s topping at a
smoke or people terrible crippling
anxieties or allergies was another one
that responded very well to it that
these things are really tied in with the
stories we tell ourselves and if you
give your self permission or sometimes
it easier if somebody gives you
permission or you give someone else
version to just change the story to act
out of character to act as if the thing
is no longer a problem
it’s a very simple shift and with that
the people that give up smoking in an
instant and never go back to it never
have any trouble with it other people
that decide I’m going to be a nonsmoker
so they change their story they change
that sort of identity that label as
opposed to alright I must I must not
smoke I must try not to smoke which of
course you it’s stressful and you fail
you give up with them on you when you do
eventually have one who they want failed
it’s all gone wrong magic is about
stories that we tell ourselves you you
show somebody an A B and a C a story
beginning middle and end there’s an
impossible story seemingly because the
reality is it’s a bit like you know
based on a true story in a film you know
that what you’re seeing is the tidied up
version so the realities between a and B
there’s all sorts of other stuff that
happened and B and C other stuff
happened but we were given a full story
so these stories we tell ourselves great
these very powerful illusions and I
think we have to we should
harness those stories and I think that
tell me so the first step is is living a
story having a store in your life and
had living some sort of considered life
I think is important and there was a
time when philosophy and psychology was
sort of the same thing and and
philosophy was about what it was to
flourish and what it was to live well
and then that sort of became lost and so
I got became much of a dryer thing and
became about language and analysis and
not really about and living well that
became sort of an embarrassing thing
that normally spoke about so that got
left to self-help guru
and now that’s sort of we’re left with
this kind of positive thinking idea this
idea that we can kind of control the
world and the universe and our destinies
by thinking positively or or even that
the universe cares that we can send
wishes that the universe and it will it
will reciprocate and it’s all that stuff
just creates terrible anxiety because it
fails and it’s not it’s not a really or
we’ve reached our goals and then don’t
know what to do next or fixate so much
on trying to achieve things in the
future and we fed that quite insidiously
from a young age you know we’re Alan
Watts has this nice thing about if you
go and if you go to a concert you got
here a piece of music you don’t just
just you don’t just go for the end you
don’t just go for the climax at the end
you know you go over the whole piece of
music but from an early age you know
we’re taught about what are you going to
do you can do these in levels so you can
do this at university so you can go and
study that and then it just as you then
you’re studying and then you’re looking
forward to the career then you’re doing
your job but now you’re looking forward
to this promotion or that promotion and
life has happened as shobhona says in a
dinger emits just sort of happened in in
the meanwhile and we didn’t realise it
was supposed to be like a piece of music
you were supposed to dance along the way
and I think these things I think these
things are important and then so there’s
a sort of a framework that I think there
and I think then after that it’s about
realizing that the happiness is a bit
like a the rainbow that symbolizes
happiness is a good symbol for it you
know you try and approach it directly it
dissipates and disappears so you find
these securities routes to it which
again the Greeks and the ancients were
very very hot on finding these ways of
maybe it was about tranquility maybe
wasn’t that being happy as such it was
about removing anxiety and being
tranquil our achieving this ataraxia as
they call it which is what the Stoics
for example and the Epicureans and
others a lot of you all know about
obviously with the school of life and
Alan’s sort of bringing back and is now
something become a much more popular
idea as psychology has become launched
it again in what makes the good life of
people and as philosophy is also
starting to this is sort of marriage
that’s sort of you know that being
divorced 400 years now that sort of
coming back together and it’s
I think it’s very exciting and I’m
working on a book I’m starting to kind
of I’ve been sort of in the background
writing a book for the last six months
and will do so for another six months on
that kind of subject and which are
happiness happiness yeah I’m philosophy
yeah yeah and I think there’s there’s a
lot that a lot of ideas that have sort
of got lost that I think are really rich
and they sort of get hijacked by
self-help people which it’s not you know
it’s just bad as I said saw the bad
science or it’s about you know if you
think about it every success story you
read every you know every entrepreneur
that says you’ve just got to focus on
what you want ignore all the naysayers
there’ll be people that will try and
bring you down you’ve got to ignore them
you focus and you believe and you keep
chasing that goal and that’s how I got
successful that is also a perfect recipe
for failure it’s exactly how you fail
that’s how you felt but the difference
is the people that failed aren’t writing
those biographies so you know it’s true
so you have this perfect sort of perfect
sort of confirmation bias you’ve got
this great sample of people that have
told themselves a self-serving story
that they’re successful because I’m they
committed and they ignored all these
people which is rubbish what we actually
do we actually live an X an x equals y
axis so along the x axis you’ve got all
the things you want to achieve in life
and on the y axis you’ve got all the
things that life throws at you fortune
as they used to call it we don’t sort of
read don’t really allow for fortune
anymore which is a huge shame and we
live this thing in the middle and
Schopenhauer knew it and Freud knew all
the psychoanalysis was when Freud
started was just about restoring what he
called natural happiness it wasn’t about
being really happy it was about of
course life generally but I’m happy and
will just restore you to that as opposed
to unnatural happiness the people like
you’re carrying around with it so once
we sort of realized that and it’s not
you don’t you can’t control you know
it’s not about setting goals and then
deciding every aspect of what your life
is going to be about that that x equals
y line is actually what life sort of is
and then you can maneuver within that of
course you can maneuver that around you
can take control where it’s so useful to
do so but we just we just fed so much
nonsense we fed this sort of you know
you just got to keep
believing positively and of course it
just creates failure a just because it
doesn’t doesn’t allow for actually what
does go on in life which is much more
subtle and you’ve said but I thought was
such a lovely such a lovely thought
that we need to rediscover tragedy
because that’s what are you properly all
know this could you from around very
well but Sir this idea of you know the
Greeks knew about fortune and that was
something that was people were very
aware of it you know you said yourself
we people that are poor now we refer to
them as not literally financial people
we’ve heard of people as losers now as
they used to be unfortunates and that
somehow they’ve lost the game now is
such a such a brilliant thought and that
maybe rediscovering tragedy at some
level as is one way of discovering it so
yes I wish yeah sorry a lot to say
that’s a very beautiful and
comprehensive answer it’s so sad but
we’ve got to end it there but please
come back and visit us you’ve been
fantastic so interesting and thank you
so much Darren brown for coming to visit [Applause]
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