in the field I feel so connected to
everything but then I come home and I
would feel so disconnected and I started
to to hate coming home because I wasn’t
stimulated I’d have to sit in this
quietness and feel this pain and I
didn’t know where it was coming from and
I felt myself withdrawing further and I
had a beautiful wife who I will
genuinely loved me but you know I in the
field I felt like I was in a tribe I
felt like I was together I was it was
egalitarian we cared for each other
there was responsibility you know we
took care of one another and then I come
home and I feel completely alone and I’d
feel a nothingness and you know I think
those elements of tribalism are really
important in our lives we are better
when we are with people who hold us
accountable we are better together not
just with one person as a group we are
better together and I couldn’t like I
literally couldn’t reconcile the noise
of this urban life that I come back to
go into Whole Foods and have literal
like I can have anything I want what
kind of chocolate
what kind of organic whatever do you
want you know and having just come home
from a place where people are out
farming every day you know I couldn’t I
couldn’t get over the noise that I was
hearing it was it’s very distracting hum
and I think I get up in the morning and
I go I can get through the day today I
got this I can get I don’t have to drink
tonight I can just and by noon it was so
much that that’s when I would you know I
have my first drink and I never drank to
get to get drunk I just drank to calm it
down because I was I was screaming
inside and I didn’t know how to stop it
because the only places that helped me
were the places where I was distracted I
was in the field and I was a part of a
tribe and it was I couldn’t be
disassociated out there
I had a singular focus and and you know
I think it was more to the point that I
felt cared for I’d come home and we’d
gloss over everything
and as this event this avalanche going
back to it
started to appear as the event that
sparked this this great divide in my
life because it had shot me in one
direction upwards my career had taken
off and yet inside I was completely
nose-diving
towards some sort of vacuous rock-bottom
that I couldn’t define the reason I put
this up here is because my wife and I
were not communicating about it we
weren’t talking about it there was such
a space between us and I love this shot
because it was so it’s so typical of us
you know it’s trying to get the camera
above all the just to get the pretty
stuff and that’s not what human
relationships are that’s not what life
is life is it’s not just the skyline and
there was too much distance between us
to sustain and I found myself completely
alone oftentimes surrounded by people
but completely alone but the best part
is my job there’s always a way to go to
stretch yourself so the next assignment
came it was to northern Burma or Myanmar
it’s changing at a very rapid pace my
life was changing at a rapid pace and I
felt like this was a perfect way to
reconcile all those differences I was
going to solve all the problems this
country is steeped in mystery in
antiquity it’s one of the most beautiful
landscapes I’ve ever seen but the
northern regions specifically are you
know they’ve just emerged from decades
of bloody civil war it’s a very
impoverished nation the northern reaches
have been it have been the Katyn state
has been off-limits to outsiders for
four decades
so our access was incredible and that’s
actually something we do very well here
is we get access and that is a very huge
privilege
it makes the stories richer it gets us
into places that we would not otherwise
be able to go but it’s interesting q
when I look at my photography on this
trip specifically in urban environments
it was changing as well I was I was I
was running so hard
from everything that was happening in my
life it was pushing me outward with my
photography and I was trying to get
closer and I was trying to you know be
more bold and I was getting more and
more in people’s faces and you know I
thought it was because I was able to get
away from all that pain and in fact I
think it was because I was carrying it
with me and they recognized I think when
we bring our baggage with us people
recognize that it’s a nonverbal thing
but people say okay this person’s human
and they let you into your space in a
much more profound way when you are
equal when you are not a different guy
you know you’re not the white dude with
the big camera you’re the broken guy who
hurts all day they’re like I give him a
shot you know we’ll let him go over
there the point of the trip was to go
Overland for 60 days
through the jungle to measure the
highest point in Southeast Asia we were
trying to solve this big geographical
mystery that had been created by the war
the war creates holes in the map you
know if you can’t go there and modern
science hasn’t gone there for decades
how are we going to know what exists
there so we were actually mapping and
trying to measure the highest point in
Southeast Asia
like I said it was an overland journey
and we were going first by overnight
buses it was great Plex it was it was
amazing first the bus barely starts then
all the seats are full and then you’re
like oh that’s pretty packed like like
three people the two seats and then they
start bringing in they’re like the
little chairs that you put your kids in
that’s a kids table and they just put
them down the aisle right in the middle
and then they get full-grown men to sit
down and notes you know and it’s a
really great scene don’t try to go to
the bathroom it doesn’t work then we
took a 24 hour boat up the Irrawaddy
River
we took what’s called a death train you
guys should YouTube it it’s a train that
hasn’t been cared for since the British
left so you’re literally about you’re
just waiting to derail it’s like 24
hours of waiting for death so if the
Avalanche didn’t traumatize
I’m sure that did at least my back was
almost broken I had about 50 spider
bites on my leg when I got off the train
somehow
and finally planes and then and then the
last form of movement that we were
taking were motorbikes and we’re going
to take motorbikes 80 miles into the
jungle before we started our walk and
these guys were awesome as the writer
called them the babies Hells Angels
largely because their bikes are tiny but
they were pretty awesome they were legit
like one morning I remember waking up
and you know the put the bikes are
loaded overloaded really and this one
guy grabs a beer it’s like seven it’s
fine no judgment I’ve done it I mean
I’ve you know we’re talking about this
let’s be honest you know and cracks was
beer and then he you know he pours some
out I’m like that’s cool some for the
homies you know good now then he takes
then he takes a little bottle of whiskey
and just fills it back up I’m like I’m
riding with that dude because that’s
kind of that’s going to be fun anyway I
did ride with that dude that day and as
soon as his bike fell over with me on
and I was trying to take pictures you
know falling off the side but then we
decided well now that we’re done with
this let’s walk into the jungle for 150
miles for those of you who haven’t
walked through a jungle you don’t need
to it’s fine stay home don’t do it it’s
awful it’s like walking inside a green
ping-pong ball which is you know cool
you can get some neat images kind of but
it’s very monotonous and it provides you
with a lot of time to think and what do
I do when I think oh I get super
uncomfortable because I have to focus on
what’s happening in my life it was a
long long walk and I started to think
and think about some real serious things
but sometimes I could get distracted by
crossing bamboos you know bridges that
have zero metal on them
that’s just all lashed together three
people could cross at a time over these
incredibly beautiful rivers
we couldn’t see anything we couldn’t we
couldn’t see the mountains at all it’s
it was it was one of the craziest walks
I’ve ever done because you come into
these washes and you like literally if
you fall here you’re just going to die
it’s like it’s like the most dangerous
walking you’ve ever done which we hope
so silly like but there’s still no
mountains right we can’t see anything
and we we’d get to these villages and I
was so amazed I was taken back to that
very one of the very first photos I
showed you know of the woman sleeping on
the bench we think of that life is so
wrong you know and yet these people that
is their life every day and yes they’ve
they’ve managed to deal with it in a
much different way this place is
untouched except by war it’s completely
subsistence living there’s no roads here
there’s no helicopters there’s no
medical no Dennis no store you need food
you kill it or you harvest it you need
medical you pray or you figure it out or
you get sick he or you die I mean there
is no help and and I was I was taken by
that the self-reliance is something
we’ve lost and then after 30 days of
walking you know 150 miles of walking
this mountain sort of erupts we walked
through the thick dense sort of
rainforest and then we got to the
deciduous trees and then the pines and
then all of a sudden were into the
rhododendrons and we can’t see anything
and then all of a sudden the day before
the mountain it just pops up and it sits
right on the edge of the Tibetan Plateau
it was sort of rose out of mystery we
were beaming you we were kind of like it
is there really a mountain here climbing
a mountain by a new route is interesting
because there is no path you know people
like you well you just go to the top but
it’s actually very technical getting to
the top is is not a clear thing and I
love that because that is just like life
I talked about that as I started there
is no path we think of things as very
linear
but things aren’t linear and and when we
put ourselves in that linear box
we tend to lose focus we do we made all
sorts of wrong terms we climb up we
realize we’re cliffed out we’d have to
go down we you know we blew hours trying
to figure things out and you know it’s
it’s those ups and downs that actually
makes the climbing somewhat worth it
because you’re learning as you go every
time you make a mistake hopefully as in
life you learn from it finally we got to
our high point where we had to decide
who was going to go for the summit
because we were a team of five and only
three could really climb above this and
we made the decision and it splintered
our team it was very very emotional it
was very high stakes at this point but
we had to make a decision of the most
suited climbers to go because the
climbing above is like this and that’s
actually pretty mellow too compared to
some of the other stuff that we were
doing which is interesting because you
see the rope there that just makes sure
you don’t die alone so let that sit in
for a second so it took a minute right
but like that’s just there to kill
everybody because if you fall there’s no
it’s just that there’s there’s nothing’s
going to happen we were worried about
frostbite we were on the north side
renown was losing feeling in his toes
finally finally after 40 days of
climbing we popped over into the Sun and
we saw the summit for the first time
forty days Renan is that tired that’s
he’s not just chilling in the Sun he’s
that tired and I was elated to see that
Ridge ahead of us until I realized there
was no way that we were going to climb
that we kept going because you have to
try you have to try but I in my brain it
was it was so convoluted it was so
confusing and I just didn’t think we had
the power to make it and sure enough we
turned around we turned around at that
point of snow just behind Vernon’s left
shoulder so we were very close to the
top but the idea was well is it’s worth
it because if we keep going we’re likely
going to die
and if we die that’s not going to make
anybody back home very happy we were too
depleted we were too tired and we failed
this is us returning to high camp
letting it sink in that we had just
failed on this huge expedition for
National Geographic and trying to
evaluate is there actual value in this
failure I think there is I think there’s
value in all failure you know it’s only
when you surrender to it can you learn
from it only when you give yourself over
to it can you learn for the next time
like we failed to bring – we failed to
bring enough rolling papers for the
tobacco so we started rolling cigarettes
out of a book called finding George
Orwell in German in Burma and that is
that’s what went on is smoking there and
that’s actually a map of the exact
region we were in which is great we’re
just like we’re done with this but burn
it down but I also knew that coming out
you know this was the trip where I
realized with all that time to think
that there were a lot more failures
ahead of me I was just beginning that
and it was the trip where I knew that
you know my marriage was over there was
no way to reconcile what had happened
you know my despondence had told us
apart my sort of my confusion my alone
is my unwillingness to engage my
inability to engage had told us apart I
was so disconnected and that
disconnectedness had created a void and
a void that I had filled with anything I
could whether on an assignment or at
home whether it was alcohol or women you
know I mean I’m just going to be honest
with you guys
you know I cheated and I lied and I was
a bad husband I was a terrible person
and I was trying so hard to figure out
you know how can I be a good person and
a bad person at the same time and I was
ripped apart and I did all the things
wrong and those actions they have
consequences and its consequences
hurt and it really really hurt because I
destroyed something beautiful and that
put me in a very strange place right
that’s a pretty strange place but I also
started seeing differently with my
photography I was looking for different
things because I wanted to find a way
out of what I was feeling and yet I felt
like I was getting further and further
sucked in because this was how I left
the house the last time and that’s a
really really hard image to look at it’s
not something I like to remember but
it’s something that’s important to talk
about
[Music]
you
[Music]
everything but then I come home and I
would feel so disconnected and I started
to to hate coming home because I wasn’t
stimulated I’d have to sit in this
quietness and feel this pain and I
didn’t know where it was coming from and
I felt myself withdrawing further and I
had a beautiful wife who I will
genuinely loved me but you know I in the
field I felt like I was in a tribe I
felt like I was together I was it was
egalitarian we cared for each other
there was responsibility you know we
took care of one another and then I come
home and I feel completely alone and I’d
feel a nothingness and you know I think
those elements of tribalism are really
important in our lives we are better
when we are with people who hold us
accountable we are better together not
just with one person as a group we are
better together and I couldn’t like I
literally couldn’t reconcile the noise
of this urban life that I come back to
go into Whole Foods and have literal
like I can have anything I want what
kind of chocolate
what kind of organic whatever do you
want you know and having just come home
from a place where people are out
farming every day you know I couldn’t I
couldn’t get over the noise that I was
hearing it was it’s very distracting hum
and I think I get up in the morning and
I go I can get through the day today I
got this I can get I don’t have to drink
tonight I can just and by noon it was so
much that that’s when I would you know I
have my first drink and I never drank to
get to get drunk I just drank to calm it
down because I was I was screaming
inside and I didn’t know how to stop it
because the only places that helped me
were the places where I was distracted I
was in the field and I was a part of a
tribe and it was I couldn’t be
disassociated out there
I had a singular focus and and you know
I think it was more to the point that I
felt cared for I’d come home and we’d
gloss over everything
and as this event this avalanche going
back to it
started to appear as the event that
sparked this this great divide in my
life because it had shot me in one
direction upwards my career had taken
off and yet inside I was completely
nose-diving
towards some sort of vacuous rock-bottom
that I couldn’t define the reason I put
this up here is because my wife and I
were not communicating about it we
weren’t talking about it there was such
a space between us and I love this shot
because it was so it’s so typical of us
you know it’s trying to get the camera
above all the just to get the pretty
stuff and that’s not what human
relationships are that’s not what life
is life is it’s not just the skyline and
there was too much distance between us
to sustain and I found myself completely
alone oftentimes surrounded by people
but completely alone but the best part
is my job there’s always a way to go to
stretch yourself so the next assignment
came it was to northern Burma or Myanmar
it’s changing at a very rapid pace my
life was changing at a rapid pace and I
felt like this was a perfect way to
reconcile all those differences I was
going to solve all the problems this
country is steeped in mystery in
antiquity it’s one of the most beautiful
landscapes I’ve ever seen but the
northern regions specifically are you
know they’ve just emerged from decades
of bloody civil war it’s a very
impoverished nation the northern reaches
have been it have been the Katyn state
has been off-limits to outsiders for
four decades
so our access was incredible and that’s
actually something we do very well here
is we get access and that is a very huge
privilege
it makes the stories richer it gets us
into places that we would not otherwise
be able to go but it’s interesting q
when I look at my photography on this
trip specifically in urban environments
it was changing as well I was I was I
was running so hard
from everything that was happening in my
life it was pushing me outward with my
photography and I was trying to get
closer and I was trying to you know be
more bold and I was getting more and
more in people’s faces and you know I
thought it was because I was able to get
away from all that pain and in fact I
think it was because I was carrying it
with me and they recognized I think when
we bring our baggage with us people
recognize that it’s a nonverbal thing
but people say okay this person’s human
and they let you into your space in a
much more profound way when you are
equal when you are not a different guy
you know you’re not the white dude with
the big camera you’re the broken guy who
hurts all day they’re like I give him a
shot you know we’ll let him go over
there the point of the trip was to go
Overland for 60 days
through the jungle to measure the
highest point in Southeast Asia we were
trying to solve this big geographical
mystery that had been created by the war
the war creates holes in the map you
know if you can’t go there and modern
science hasn’t gone there for decades
how are we going to know what exists
there so we were actually mapping and
trying to measure the highest point in
Southeast Asia
like I said it was an overland journey
and we were going first by overnight
buses it was great Plex it was it was
amazing first the bus barely starts then
all the seats are full and then you’re
like oh that’s pretty packed like like
three people the two seats and then they
start bringing in they’re like the
little chairs that you put your kids in
that’s a kids table and they just put
them down the aisle right in the middle
and then they get full-grown men to sit
down and notes you know and it’s a
really great scene don’t try to go to
the bathroom it doesn’t work then we
took a 24 hour boat up the Irrawaddy
River
we took what’s called a death train you
guys should YouTube it it’s a train that
hasn’t been cared for since the British
left so you’re literally about you’re
just waiting to derail it’s like 24
hours of waiting for death so if the
Avalanche didn’t traumatize
I’m sure that did at least my back was
almost broken I had about 50 spider
bites on my leg when I got off the train
somehow
and finally planes and then and then the
last form of movement that we were
taking were motorbikes and we’re going
to take motorbikes 80 miles into the
jungle before we started our walk and
these guys were awesome as the writer
called them the babies Hells Angels
largely because their bikes are tiny but
they were pretty awesome they were legit
like one morning I remember waking up
and you know the put the bikes are
loaded overloaded really and this one
guy grabs a beer it’s like seven it’s
fine no judgment I’ve done it I mean
I’ve you know we’re talking about this
let’s be honest you know and cracks was
beer and then he you know he pours some
out I’m like that’s cool some for the
homies you know good now then he takes
then he takes a little bottle of whiskey
and just fills it back up I’m like I’m
riding with that dude because that’s
kind of that’s going to be fun anyway I
did ride with that dude that day and as
soon as his bike fell over with me on
and I was trying to take pictures you
know falling off the side but then we
decided well now that we’re done with
this let’s walk into the jungle for 150
miles for those of you who haven’t
walked through a jungle you don’t need
to it’s fine stay home don’t do it it’s
awful it’s like walking inside a green
ping-pong ball which is you know cool
you can get some neat images kind of but
it’s very monotonous and it provides you
with a lot of time to think and what do
I do when I think oh I get super
uncomfortable because I have to focus on
what’s happening in my life it was a
long long walk and I started to think
and think about some real serious things
but sometimes I could get distracted by
crossing bamboos you know bridges that
have zero metal on them
that’s just all lashed together three
people could cross at a time over these
incredibly beautiful rivers
we couldn’t see anything we couldn’t we
couldn’t see the mountains at all it’s
it was it was one of the craziest walks
I’ve ever done because you come into
these washes and you like literally if
you fall here you’re just going to die
it’s like it’s like the most dangerous
walking you’ve ever done which we hope
so silly like but there’s still no
mountains right we can’t see anything
and we we’d get to these villages and I
was so amazed I was taken back to that
very one of the very first photos I
showed you know of the woman sleeping on
the bench we think of that life is so
wrong you know and yet these people that
is their life every day and yes they’ve
they’ve managed to deal with it in a
much different way this place is
untouched except by war it’s completely
subsistence living there’s no roads here
there’s no helicopters there’s no
medical no Dennis no store you need food
you kill it or you harvest it you need
medical you pray or you figure it out or
you get sick he or you die I mean there
is no help and and I was I was taken by
that the self-reliance is something
we’ve lost and then after 30 days of
walking you know 150 miles of walking
this mountain sort of erupts we walked
through the thick dense sort of
rainforest and then we got to the
deciduous trees and then the pines and
then all of a sudden were into the
rhododendrons and we can’t see anything
and then all of a sudden the day before
the mountain it just pops up and it sits
right on the edge of the Tibetan Plateau
it was sort of rose out of mystery we
were beaming you we were kind of like it
is there really a mountain here climbing
a mountain by a new route is interesting
because there is no path you know people
like you well you just go to the top but
it’s actually very technical getting to
the top is is not a clear thing and I
love that because that is just like life
I talked about that as I started there
is no path we think of things as very
linear
but things aren’t linear and and when we
put ourselves in that linear box
we tend to lose focus we do we made all
sorts of wrong terms we climb up we
realize we’re cliffed out we’d have to
go down we you know we blew hours trying
to figure things out and you know it’s
it’s those ups and downs that actually
makes the climbing somewhat worth it
because you’re learning as you go every
time you make a mistake hopefully as in
life you learn from it finally we got to
our high point where we had to decide
who was going to go for the summit
because we were a team of five and only
three could really climb above this and
we made the decision and it splintered
our team it was very very emotional it
was very high stakes at this point but
we had to make a decision of the most
suited climbers to go because the
climbing above is like this and that’s
actually pretty mellow too compared to
some of the other stuff that we were
doing which is interesting because you
see the rope there that just makes sure
you don’t die alone so let that sit in
for a second so it took a minute right
but like that’s just there to kill
everybody because if you fall there’s no
it’s just that there’s there’s nothing’s
going to happen we were worried about
frostbite we were on the north side
renown was losing feeling in his toes
finally finally after 40 days of
climbing we popped over into the Sun and
we saw the summit for the first time
forty days Renan is that tired that’s
he’s not just chilling in the Sun he’s
that tired and I was elated to see that
Ridge ahead of us until I realized there
was no way that we were going to climb
that we kept going because you have to
try you have to try but I in my brain it
was it was so convoluted it was so
confusing and I just didn’t think we had
the power to make it and sure enough we
turned around we turned around at that
point of snow just behind Vernon’s left
shoulder so we were very close to the
top but the idea was well is it’s worth
it because if we keep going we’re likely
going to die
and if we die that’s not going to make
anybody back home very happy we were too
depleted we were too tired and we failed
this is us returning to high camp
letting it sink in that we had just
failed on this huge expedition for
National Geographic and trying to
evaluate is there actual value in this
failure I think there is I think there’s
value in all failure you know it’s only
when you surrender to it can you learn
from it only when you give yourself over
to it can you learn for the next time
like we failed to bring – we failed to
bring enough rolling papers for the
tobacco so we started rolling cigarettes
out of a book called finding George
Orwell in German in Burma and that is
that’s what went on is smoking there and
that’s actually a map of the exact
region we were in which is great we’re
just like we’re done with this but burn
it down but I also knew that coming out
you know this was the trip where I
realized with all that time to think
that there were a lot more failures
ahead of me I was just beginning that
and it was the trip where I knew that
you know my marriage was over there was
no way to reconcile what had happened
you know my despondence had told us
apart my sort of my confusion my alone
is my unwillingness to engage my
inability to engage had told us apart I
was so disconnected and that
disconnectedness had created a void and
a void that I had filled with anything I
could whether on an assignment or at
home whether it was alcohol or women you
know I mean I’m just going to be honest
with you guys
you know I cheated and I lied and I was
a bad husband I was a terrible person
and I was trying so hard to figure out
you know how can I be a good person and
a bad person at the same time and I was
ripped apart and I did all the things
wrong and those actions they have
consequences and its consequences
hurt and it really really hurt because I
destroyed something beautiful and that
put me in a very strange place right
that’s a pretty strange place but I also
started seeing differently with my
photography I was looking for different
things because I wanted to find a way
out of what I was feeling and yet I felt
like I was getting further and further
sucked in because this was how I left
the house the last time and that’s a
really really hard image to look at it’s
not something I like to remember but
it’s something that’s important to talk
about
[Music]
you
[Music]
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