hello everyone welcome to another google
hangout I’m excited to have with me
Anthony from sales superstars and what
he’s done is a blog series interviewing
people who are experts at sales and
marketing and reached out to me and said
hey Evan I love the interview from my
series and I said Austin happy to be a
part of it uh why don’t we threw it into
a video and also give you a little bit
of exposure to my audience and I’d much
rather do a video then sit there and
write answers to questions so here we
are we’re ready to go Anthony maybe for
my audience if you want to just give
them a quick overview of what you’re
doing and then jump into the questions
and here we go yes i’m anthony from
South superstars net basically we offer
full fully online sales and marketing
training all accredited by Institute
sales marketing management so over here
that’s the only professional body
approved by the UK government which to
actually offer actual qualifications to
sell the marketing so go for our
training you don’t destroy your skills
you get an actual instantly recognised
qualification to prove it so it’s pretty
good and we also got blog which is where
I come in so I try and speak to various
sales and marketing people put together
profile pieces find out about the career
where they are how they got to where
they are and things I picked up along
the way that’s what we’re doing today so
all right so yeah probably best to yeah
I’ll try to keep it to about 20-30
minutes but yeah we’ll just dive right
in so probably best to start the
beginner I think obviously I know that
you’ve had quite an early starting to
the world of business by which I mean
you started when you were five years old
what can you tell me about that it’s
true ah so my first my first business I
guess was I was 5 my younger sister was
three and I convinced her to make
pictures that we drew with I don’t was
crayons or paint whatever it was and
then later that afternoon we went
door-to-door selling them and my first
sale ever was to my next door neighbor
for sense who bought one of my pictures
and that was my first sale ever I’ve
been building businesses ever since so I
mean obviously among five year old to be
like and I don’t like an astral or
spider-man or saying
why’d you want to be a businessman
applied that’s a great question I
honestly don’t know and I’m thinking you
know my son is home from school now and
he’s uh he’s almost 6 years old so like
he’s fine now or I was said that’s your
your age you thinking kind of reflect on
that um I honestly don’t know you know
my parents weren’t entrepreneurs uh
there’s nobody my favorites
entrepreneurs nobody encouraged me to
start a business really I do my personal
um yeah so I don’t know where it came
from i guess something to me um you know
my parents always uh supported anything
i wanted to do but even through my house
high school years I you know at the high
school at the end when you graduate you
have to write the yearbook you know
where you’re gonna be years I wrote VP
at a bank like I thought it was thought
I was gonna be a banker when I changed
when i got to university but i guess
I’ve always had entrepreneurial
tendencies but because it wasn’t part of
my environment growing up I headed down
a different path and I’m thankful that I
eventually discovered entrepreneurship
mmm yeah so you didn’t type this little
traditional businessman route I guess so
obviously you can’t be carried on
selling from your childhood even when
you were at school still yeah my next
you know business was baseball cards I
during the craze and up in the world
yeah yeah I’m from Toronto Canada and in
92 93 are our baseball team the Toronto
Blue Jays were winning the world series
so it was a big deal everything was all
hype baseball at the time are other
sports franchises you know sucked so
it’s all about baseball and so people
were collecting baseball cards and at
that point I was 12 and 13 and I had a
little mini baseball card Empire buying
and selling and trading and every week
uh you know we go visit dealers and Here
I am kind of negotiating with 40 year
olds and 50 year olds and I’m this kid
trying to say but I with it what I
taking you seriously uh yeah
I had the cards and I had money so all
right you know they’re willing to deal
and they got to know me but i would i
would be a you know every every dollar
when your kid is is a lot you know like
they have a lot of loud so i’ve been
negotiating down to like in ten cent
chunks you know if i could get a card
for 290 instead of three dollars that
saved me huge huge cash and we should do
garage sales and stuff and I would
always have my little table baseball
cards and I would always usually sell
more make more money from my baseball
cards and my family did you know from
the garage sale stuff um so yeah I went
from that and then and then launch the
whole launch the number of different you
know companies that that didn’t really
ever take off the first business I had
to fill to go when you’re in your teens
yeah yeah just just ideas you know uh
and you know I’m how old am I now I’m 35
I’m 35 sure yeah 30 year anniversary for
the five year older torrington actually
go back to try to paint something and go
door to door and see if I could sell it
um yeah good point uh and and it was you
know growing up I was just getting into
computers right like now everybody goes
I period of my son as an iPad all but uh
you know we had one computer per family
we have a you know dial-up modem aah ice
alone I started a summer business with a
friend of mine and we on one computer to
share so we would work in chunks like we
would work 24 hours a day on the
comparator but split up right so like we
were working for our chunks and
overnight he worked her like the 12 the
4am ship well I would sleep and then
he’d wake me up with four and then I
would wake the I would work the 4am the
8 a.m. shift then I go back to bed and
you know trying to share resources you
only had one computer that business
never never took off but you know I
guess I’ve always had that kind of
entrepreneurial instinct and drive just
just try it yeah just to just to try and
and I guess I do thank my parents and
that they were always encouraging like
they always support everything I did
even they couldn’t give me uh you know
advice on what to do they always they
made me believe in myself and feel like
hey whatever I want to try I can go and
potentially have success with sure so
what we like a sort of school and
university updated got all these
projects going on the side it must have
a eats and into your concentration at
school they’re surely um you know I was
never a fantastic student I wasn’t a
terrible student um and I have two
sisters one older and one younger and
they both were students and I had the
eyes every duck out yeah yeah like I was
getting like B’s and C’s that’s not like
terrible but but not on work my sister
is getting straight A’s uh and I
remember every every semester having to
sit down with my parents when my report
card came in to have the talk about why
I wasn’t you know doing well um and I
always dreaded it but they always you
know they always left me feeling um like
I could do it you know my mother’s last
name is cast rly it’s my middle name yet
until they would always tell me your cuz
truly Carmichael you can do it um so
they always left me feeling like I could
do it and I could get better and then in
my last year of high school my
expectations for myself started to
exceed my parents expectations of me and
in my last year high school had straight
90s all they wanted me to get with
straight A’s right now now I want it to
be like higher than what they thought of
me for some reason I don’t know why I
don’t know what change in like that last
year of high school um but I ended up
gradually lot whether like a like a
mindset change here and maybe I you know
what I think I think I gotta meditate on
it or something I gotta go deep in right
it’s like it’s buried I’m sure there’s a
reason but it’s buried something here
that I don’t put an actual effect on you
yeah maybe one day it’ll come um maybe
this will spawn Anthony inspiration to
dig deep and Cocteau
psychologists as to why gene and I
couldn’t be a psychiatrist yeah I backup
career there you go we’ve got a soothing
voice you know you got the accent going
on okay um yeah and and none of my
ventures really did much like I saw
baseball cards you know you know make a
couple hundred dollars kind of thing but
it wasn’t ever for me that was huge
money but it wasn’t ever anything here’s
a substantial um bunch of stuff that
didn’t work and then the first business
that that actually took off was when I
got to university and that’s what I had
the important decision between getting
the job that I thought I always wanted
in banking I had huge opportunities and
I turned them down to go do this startup
thing where I was broke uh but ended up
taking off well um did you sort of take
finance at at University then is that
what you’re still not dead set on
banking yeah I saw at the University of
Toronto I what was my major economics so
like run kind of hardcore into it money
yeah yeah I now I loved economics in
high school my best subject I just have
a natural feel for it I kind of got so
frustrated when I started doing my own
business and I got to university because
I found economics was 22 big picture
stuff right like how does this impact me
you know like do I care if they were
still you were still growing a business
at that point money from the yeah i love
the all idea in case of you know from an
economic point of view if we increase
the interest rate what happens to all
these in this room um and it impacts
policy and there’s a lot of you know
ways you can take it but you know if I’m
an entrepreneur what do I care like do I
have an in do I have a ability to
control that maybe by electing officials
but I felt like it wasn’t super
practical anymore for me it wasn’t how
are we running a business and so I took
a I took a small business course at my
university and and it was almost a joke
like this was a four-year this is my
fourth year I’m graduating it was a
small business course at university of
toronto is a very reputable university
probably the most corrupted bowlin in
the country and it was such basic stuff
like i was already running my business
at the time and thought wow this is this
is not very helpful for me um and it was
on the friend you would love you were
learning or learning more doing it at
that point I guess way more learning way
more doing than than being in that being
in the class but um I was on the fence
because growing into University I
thought I wanted to be in the banking
industry and in my last year I had
opportunities to work with McKinsey
Consulting and Merrill Lynch okay and
they you know like the biggest names in
strategic consultant in the bank on a
screen it’s like this is a dream this is
what I always this is what i said in my
high school yearbook that i wanted to do
and you know they flew me to New York
and put me up in a world of Astoria
we’re doing interviews and at the time I
had my company where i was making three
hundred dollars a month and like not
surviving and super poor and something
about that just made me feel like you
know the smart rational same thing to do
is go take the job right I it’s like 80
to 100 thousand dollars starting salary
flying around the world doing what I
thought I wanted to do but it just
didn’t feel right and and I don’t know
you know I guess takes um it was scary
taking the leap to do a
three-hundred-dollar month business you
know no security where I could have done
that job the gamble to take on just a
failing in them yeah and I think what
helped me was uh two things 1i didn’t
want to regret it you know I don’t want
to look back and say man I wish I just
gave that a little bit more you know I
wish I gave that another six months to
really I felt like I would regret it if
I didn’t try and then I also told myself
you know what like these jobs will still
be there in a year they’ll still be
there I could always go back and get get
these jobs and I felt you know what some
of my friends are taking a year off
they’re going to go travel the war
rather than go backpacking in Europe or
whatever I’m going to take a year and
try to make my business work and those
two things going to help gave me the
courage to to do that um right and I’m
glad I never ended up having another job
you know ever since so what was the what
was the sort of turning point then like
you say you’re only making three hundred
dollars a month what did you start doing
differently what what what propelled it
to success ah that’s a fantastic
question because I was you know those
were some of the hardest days of my
entire life like citing the business I
could imagine here is no joke right um
it’s hard it’s the hardest thing you
know maybe apart from parenting you it’s
the hardest thing you’re ever gonna do
in your life and you know what
everything’s going great it’s easy to
get along and I had two business
partners and and we got along really
well but when you’re you know beyond
poor and you think you have a great
product and everything i had done up
until that point if I applied myself I
could get better results right if I
apply myself to academics I got aids if
I applied myself to sports I got faster
here I was trying to hype myself and I
was just sucking hard you know nothing
working um writing and I got to the pole
where I told my partner I quit aa really
yeah I told them one day I quit you know
this is I feel worthless I feel like I’m
adding no value I feel like I’m just
taking a pounding on my self-worth and I
gotta go do something where I can get
some meaningful like just feel like a
contributing human being but um what the
next day I woke up went back I was
running yeah and luckily he left he
didn’t give me a hard time about it you
know he I you know we work out of his
apartment I worked at it off his kitchen
table and he just opened the door and we
just went back to work so I’m grateful
to him for that um I’ve read that you
like stand-up desks is that is that
where you got it because you just had to
sort of stand up at his kitchen desk
gonna oh that’s cool no i’m using a
certain now so i am standing I
that for Mona play my just before so
habit from those days but now I was
sitting down the stand-up desk came I
think I’ve been doing it for maybe three
or four maybe longer three four five
years something like that that came just
because my knees were hurting a lot my
back was hurting a lot I’m in front of
the computer a lot like that’s part of
what I do was always another computer um
but I’m always trying different things
and interested in growth hacking and
different solutions and so I just tried
putting my computer I worked up a laptop
and I just try to put it on the
bookshelf and and I tried that for a
week and I liked it and so I just
started using a stand-up desk and I
don’t I get more energy like when I’m
talking to people talking to you I’m
standing up i have more provide going
there i’m gonna sit down it’s me like
some people love sitting down at school
I it takes a while they used to standing
up all day long but it can be a little
awkward when people come over from
meetings and there’s nowhere to sit but
otherwise yeah I’m a huge fan um all
right back back to the kitchen yeah so
you’re asking by the turning point the
turning point came where you know after
that frustration after I told them that
I quit I obviously went back to work the
next day and I had to I told myself this
is crazy like what I’m doing is not
working I want to keep going on find a
different way to stand like I can’t keep
doing it the way I’m doing it and the
light bulb moment came off when I
realized I’m not the first guy to try to
sell software before that’s we were
selling we had a software product was
biotech software my two partners were
the creators that the coders the
scientists and I was the business
business guy um and what I started doing
was in Milan success and I said okay who
else who else has sold software and make
turned it into a huge company you know
maybe not biotechs top floor because it
was still really new but who’s built a
huge software company like I could learn
from that and I looked at stores like
Bill Gates and I looked at mcafee and I
looked at a whole bunch of companies and
not how Bill Gates makes an extra
million dollars now
right it’s like it’s irrelevant he’s
super rich it’s not going to help me but
0 to 1 how did that happen how do you
open zero that’s what I wanted to do how
do I make that happen you studied it
yeah you know the bigger the company is
the easier it is to find out about their
their story um Bill Gates did it through
partnerships he partnered with companies
to you know who had his target market
and foremost alliances to grow his
business and Microsoft’s big famous deal
came with IBM where every IBM computer
had Microsoft software on it not being
was the biggest computer maker at the
time but can afford that point IBM was
RS re Microsoft was already a seven
million dollar company you know seven
million dollars isn’t huge but it’s
seven million dollars more than what I
had and so how did they get the 7
million those through partnerships again
so they continued to partner with
manufacturers of computers and so I
started applying that strategy to my
business or something who can i partner
with instead of me trying to sell
individual people one at a time who can
i partner with to get this thing going
and within two weeks I had my first deal
with a company out of the UK that’s
great you came to make sure I need
direction we did upfront sales of 13 and
a half thousand dollars for an exclusive
license to sell our software and that
just like 13 and a half thousand dollars
are you kidding me that was huge at the
moment right breaking I make it three
hundred dollars a month and here’s 13
and a half K um I know now it doesn’t
seem like a lot of money but to me that
was that was like well considering you
of considering your first I was five
cents i think it’s a step up and look
yeah i mean we always eaten beans for
lunch every day whenever we had a a new
client that you know we want to
celebrate we went to mcdonalds and got
french fries that was our celebration
you know it’s like really extraordinaire
yeah really like poverty line kind of
stuff so 13 a half thousand dollars was
pretty life-changing and more
importantly
it gave me a model to duplicate like I
could do that in other markets too not
just the UK and then I started following
that and going off their other companies
making more partnerships and then we
started to grow quickly and then we got
you know NASA as a customer johnson
Johnson is a customer and you know three
years from when I said I quit we had
sold our business we’ve been acquired by
another company so it’s just massive
growth and it all started with that
change in mindset that I don’t have to
be the genius and come up with every
idea myself try to model success and
kind of what you’re doing with this
series right you want people the model
on our for like yeah okay uh what makes
people tick yeah so just to just yeah
just to sort of them go go back a little
bit obviously you said you turn down the
M turn down the job offers it’s a big
financial firms so that would have been
an easy way to money so I’m guessing
it’s not about money for you so what is
it that you sort of want in life what
way is it that you want to get out of it
ah now I have a much clearer
understanding when I did before ah sure
I thrive on impact you know I want to
help a billion entrepreneur I know that
I can help somebody and I’ve touched
them that this huge meaning for me that
gets me super excited and I can run off
those fumes for a long time um yeah but
kind of orchestrated my entire business
around that back then I didn’t have that
kind of self-awareness and it was more
about the fear of regret like I talked
about right like i like i might not you
know be able to live with myself and I
thought about the Michael Dell example
and how he started he took one summer
off from university was studying to be a
doctor in University and he took a
summer off right focus on this business
when his parents wanted him to stay and
be a doctor and he said just give me
till to give me till the end of the
summer and if it doesn’t work then I’ll
go back and finish my degree and be a
doctor like you want you know it
obviously did while I never had to go
back and finish that degree and I just
felt like I want to know
you know if if it doesn’t work and i
suck that’s fine I just I just need to
know it’s like it’s like you know this
is a pretty girl that you want to ask
out and and you could live with yourself
if you ask and she turns you down but
you can’t live with yourself with not
asking like that haunts you forever and
so I didn’t want to be haunted and I try
to live my life with this few regrets as
possible and that first you know huge
decision helped shape that thinking for
me um and now we’re agog about
describing yeah probably quite a good
way I described in a sort of
entrepreneurial mindset generally that I
think yeah it could be it could be um
until I’ve constant what wanted you know
I try to live a lot more proactively and
by the job than just reacting the things
um and and I wasn’t sure at all by the
way like I can look back on this story
and say look out what great it’s worked
out but it was a it was a scary
situation um and I and I wasn’t sure
that I was making the right decision at
all it wasn’t like oh yeah I got this no
problem it was it was nowhere close to
that so but I’m glad you know I’m glad
and it just says like full circle moment
some of the people are graduated with
from that University then came back to
me you know five years later and they’re
like Evan I hate my job I want to start
when he really is how do i how do i go
there and it and I’m just wow I’m so
glad that I didn’t I’m not here I’m so
glad I didn’t go down that packet of
anything I could have been me almost was
me yeah so what you want to tell me
about where you went from here after
selling that business so I saw the
business I and we’ve got a bunch of
questions coming in too by the way I
know if you want to get to those but I’m
always happen in two years already um
where where did I go show how to get to
see him oh it’s on the live stream if
you go to yahoo my youtube channel just
turn it on mute turn that video I’m you
from here though you have to go up to
that yeah if you go to channel you’ll
see the string show okay I’ll go
where did I go I sold my business it was
sad like this was what I had worked on
for the past couple years and we turned
it into something amazing and i actually
didn’t want to sell it at the time it
was more of a personal decision for my
partners who really wanted to get to
California that was like their life goal
was to get the California and be in the
scene and as Canadians you can’t just go
to California um and so we got we got an
offer to be acquired by a Japanese
company that was headquartered in
California and so we sold the business
and and then I didn’t know what to do
next to be honest I didn’t have this
plan of what to do next one of the
things i found was i wanted to learn
more about the financing industry rate
up capital we never need a capital we
never raise capital is always
bootstrapped all everything but i was
interested in it we almost looked at it
we were interested in curious by so I
hooked up with a venture capital company
here in Toronto where I was helping
facilitate deals half a million to 15
million kind of growth capital for
companies and did that for a while and
as a result of my success in selling my
business I got asked to do a lot of
speaking I’m speaking to help inspire
young entrepreneurs sharing the story
all of that stuff and then it slowly
grew and I used my website to share
information about raising capital right
in in the same time learned a lot from
the partners at the VC business they
were all in their sixties or seventies
and knew the street really well had a
ton of experience but also warrant like
super hard working anymore they had made
their money it was like a retirement job
for them and they weren’t actively and
aggressively going after new business so
that was part of my roles hey let’s
bring in new people to help raise money
for and so I got to learn that process
and learn how they fought and get
exposed to a lot of different industries
and businesses where before I was just I
just new software that’s all I knew um
and then my business started to take off
and that I was being asked to do a lot
of speaking and
during a lot of content and I felt like
I had tapped out my learning at at the
venture capital business you’re learning
a lot so quickly then it started popping
off i’m still learning but you know like
anything else that the learning here
started yeah now you could probably
learn more doing doing your business I
guess yeah my god I got a papal remember
Walter life I got um I got the itch to
do something on my own again I’m sure
and so so i started i started Evan
Carmichael calm and started having the
main goal was to try to help
entrepreneurs in not uh having to go
through all the painful things that I
had to go through you know trying to
bribe I wish somebody told me about
Milan success way earlier like I again I
had no business mentors in my life I
just tried to figure this out myself so
I just wanted to help other
entrepreneurs not almost quit or not
fully quit like I almost did and just
make things a little bit easier and so
that’s that’s why I started what I do
now and I guess it’s been over 10 years
um yeah and yeah been an awesome ride
and continuing to believe and help more
entrepreneurs and that’s what keeps me
going yeah I’m just got the comments up
now so I mean this this might tie into
blue Drew’s comment of so you started
using the word believe over the past
couple of years George you want to tell
me a little bit about sort what the what
the meaning is behind that because you
mentioned earlier how your parents
really supported to do and they seem to
believe in you it’s anything to do with
that yeah sure I mean you see it on the
wall there obviously uh you know I think
it’s important to have a slogan and a
tagline it’s something that people can
remember you by and that’s where I
started I was never happy with the tag
lines that I used um you know I started
with something like motivation and
strategies for entrepreneurs yeah then I
moved to like the mcdonalds model where
I had you know over 14 million
entrepreneurs help them counting that
you kind of see in the mcdonald signs
but i still wasn’t happy with it I felt
like it was just a
it wasn’t a true reflection of what I
was trying to get out um yeah then I
started just making a list and I’m
actually writing the book about this
process a little be fully detailed than
that but um I just making a list of the
things that I I stood for and started
thinking about what I really enjoyed
from my life not not in a business
context just in general like why do I
love my parents what what’s my favorite
movie and why do I like it what kind of
music do I listen to and why do I like
that I just started writing down themes
um and believed was one of them but when
I moved out on a piece of paper I
thought I that’s too that’s too simple
like catches we believe is gotta be
believed something believe in yourself
believe in what you’re doing I had to
have some it just felt too short and too
big of a word and so I slept on it and
they came back to the list the next day
and and it just felt more and more right
you seem to them you seem to have a lot
of really good ideas in your sleep like
a when you quit your quick your company
and then slept on it came back the next
day same with your tagline now you know
it’s Qi you know you can get a lot of
ideas from sleeping um I like to sleep
on it I’m not uh I don’t think I’m
self-aware enough and I’m not um I’m not
a rash decision maker you know like I
don’t make it to run on the spot unless
I’ve thought about it I’m a terrible
arguer I’m a terrible fighter because I
can’t think quickly enough I got to
think about what I say and it’s terrible
for fights right so so you know it took
me a while to come down to my one word I
believe some people to get it quick like
yeah that’s me this is my word you know
they pick it that you have certainty and
for me it took a while to get to it um
but but I sound a sound I think it
sounds like you’ve always had it like
you said when you were kids you didn’t
do so well at school until the moment
where you believe that you could become
something better even more so than your
parents believed you know so sounds like
it’s always been there yeah and I
believe everybody has one word that
defines for the art has always been a
part of you always will be a part
of you and when you figure out what not
easier to live your life on purpose
instead of just being reactionary and
make decisions so much easier um and so
yes it’s always in a part my favorite
movie is Seabiscuit have you seen
Seabiscuit but it’s written O’Shea now
knows about us put a war is it like
everybody give up on and you know and
then ends up winning all these races
everything and it’s a pretty no it’s a
cheesy movie in whatever I’ve seen a
movie like 20 times or something I still
love it but it’s all about belief look
that’s what it’s all about the songs i
listen to you’ll influence my parent
everything in my everything that I’d
love in life like what attracts you to
the friends that I have it’s all about
believe in some contacts and so now that
I have that understanding I can make
decisions a lot more easily and stay
motivated and stay away from things that
you know may seem like an opportunity
but don’t quite thick with what I you
know really staying for just makes
everything so much easier so um
obviously we’ve touched on this with
belief but you know you work with a
profile like tons of entrepreneurs
business people sales people what you
think makes a really great one um I
think maybe this is cheesy but I just
think authenticity I think I’m not a
huge fan obviously of most salespeople
um I think a lot of times and
entrepreneurs you have to be a
salesperson to sell you your stuff right
I don’t think too many times people just
trying to sell something and they don’t
they don’t even believe in what they’re
selling like you’re just trying to make
your quota and you don’t actually even
use your product or love it or like
that’s why so many businesses will fail
is entrepreneurs get into it just trying
to make a quick buck you see an
opportunity and you go for it and and
it’s always harder than you think it’s
going to be in the business ends up
feeling so you’ve got it you’ve got to
absolutely love what you’re selling and
have a story to talk about it with and
you sharing how you use it and how your
clients use it and and like telling it
in a way that’s that makes you feel
proud like you know you made this
software tool and you made it because
you had these problems now these
customers are using it and they’re using
to save lives and like that’s meaningful
to you that’s going to be so much more
effective than just selling off of a
product sheet list and listen out the
features and benefits so I’m also a big
believer in what I call poor selling and
I think it’s the next step of selling
were when you first start selling
something if you haven’t gone through
any training or anything you should
start selling the features right
everybody’s selling features here’s what
I software product can do whatever then
somewhere along the lines going to put
the benefits right this is like standard
sales training grew and you’re selling
the benefits but I think the level above
that which should come first is your
value you know people more than ever
want to know what kind of company you
are and what you stand for and and we
attracted to the mission that you’re on
and then we’ll buy anything that you
come up with as long as it can help them
in some way so yes the features are so
important yes it benefits is so
important but more important is who are
you as a company or if you’re a
solopreneur or you as a person what do
you standing in two personalities from
so the soul what’s the mission that
you’re on right and that’s something
that people will gravitate to and
they’ll people will buy products because
because they know that you’re on that
mission there on that path with you so
example is uh you know honest com if you
guys if you know honest company they
sell diapers and kids kids clothing and
you know beauty products kind of stuff
they want the world to be more honest
place you know so everything you make
they try to have all organic materials
and they try to reduce their footprint
on the world and ship locally and hire
locally all this stuff and they’re
living their values and so people people
will go and buy from them because they
believe in that mission as well and you
don’t even have to think is this product
organic or not because it’s coming from
the honest company so you know what’s
made with honest intentions and it went
from nothing to you know 200 million in
sales in three years and so people want
to know first who you are what you stand
for marketing
much more about values and it ever has
been and then you can get into if you
get them to know you like you trust you
then then they’re going to be much more
than talking to you about what your
parking services can do and then how
they work sure so we’ve had quite a few
interesting questions in let’s say we
can solve a quick five four REE some of
these quickly jam interested hear from
someone called Dmitri asking what are
there any funny or crazy moments during
your sales career well sure ah sicculets
brings Devon you know I remember when I
first started selling my software I was
super awkward super nervous no
confidence I should get hung up on you
know just beating me to the point where
I didn’t want to sell anything I felt
like man this is terrible i’m just
getting rejection after rejection after
rejection and I it was it was all in my
head you know because I was a young guy
I was out of there was like 20 years old
I was selling to people three times my
age you had PhDs who I had no science
background is my worst subject in school
and like now I’m trying to sell science
software and I just felt I felt like I
couldn’t do it and then something
twigged where I realized that I think I
was just looking at like the
testimonials or something that people
were using our software and they loved
it so I realize that I could provide
benefit to them like I can help them and
when I went in with that approach or
just a mindset shift and knowing that I
had belief in my product and knowing
that I can provide them with something
that will really help them what they’re
doing when they’re research I found that
they were really need to talk to me like
they didn’t care that I was 20 years old
they didn’t carry didn’t have a PhD they
didn’t care about any of this stuff all
they cared about was can you help me and
I could and once I went in with that
approach I I started seeing a lot more
results um and it’s taking me a while to
kind of like beat that out of my system
I don’t know where that came from like
that limiting South belief but even now
not now like today but
my recent in my business now where I
help entrepreneurs one of the first
brains to reach out to me to try to do a
deal I do a lot of work with brands like
Dell and Intel and guys were trying to
reach on kroners my first it was with
Microsoft one of them and and I was so
nervous and I thought like Microsoft
doesn’t need me like it’s a huge how can
I help Microsoft there Microsoft man you
know and I thought I was gonna lose a
deal I and I sucked in our first like
exploratory calls and then I realized
like real reason why there’s an interest
in me and and I looked at what they were
producing I felt like they could do so
much better and I have an audience and I
can really help them and when I really
embraced and felt confident that I could
help them let it start at the change
then I started to get more deals and I
started to be able to increase my
budgets with them and so there was a lot
of like that awkwardness and terrible I
don’t know if that’s you know maybe not
funny but I sucked as a salesperson I
sucked badly until I had the confidence
knowing that I could actually provide
not like an arrogance like we’re the
best blah blah blah but like what I’m
selling can actually help you and just
talk about that they didn’t care about
my background or anything else and
they’re willing have a discussion sure
all right and then we’ll just keep
working down these breaks of
international opinion on best practices
for generating hyper own digital product
launch if you’ve got anything particular
in mind ah my best advice would be to
start engaging with influencers a buddy
who’s an expert and has an audience in
your industry I don’t know what kind of
digital product you have but look at who
all the experts are and reach out to
them with a genuine message saying why
you like them why you should into them
and that you have a product that you
think might help so for example I work
with entrepreneurs right I have a big
audience of entrepreneurs most of you
guys watching now charity of your own
business you know if you’re trying to
launch a makeup product yes i have a
huge audience but i can’t help you right
like that’s not i’m not a consumer
packaged goods channel but if you have a
product that helps entrepreneurs I could
help you sell it in a
I’m genuinely interested like I want to
know personally what is out there noon
with us for entrepreneurs and so you
know if you approach me with not a pitch
but telling me you know engage with some
of my stuff tell me what you like about
it what could be improved and what
you’re working on and let me feel your
passion for entrepreneurs with me and
that that should be like a genuine
authentic process because you’re
creating a product out of love and not
just to seize an opportunity um that’s
gonna be your best bet and find you know
the top top 25 top 30 people who are
influencers in your market and and reach
out to them those guys will do all the
selling for you you don’t have to worry
about picking up the phone and trying to
get these guys one by one by one and
then we’ll offs best way of a sales
brought I’m guessing one of the answers
is that massive word painted behind you
anything else yeah um you know this
happens in the sales rep but it also is
also why you’ll have lots of ruts you
know as such as ice happen to everyone
the car under the blue everyone calm
down um two things that I find helpful
one is on this may seem counterintuitive
do something else uh have a hobby have
something where you feel like you’re
getting better and you’re learning um
one of the you know one of the biggest
challenges are people when you tie so
much to your career to your business and
entrepreneurs we’re going to go all in
them or companies is that when you stop
when you hit a rut your life is over
it’s like everything’s terrible your
your deep down and you’re not growing in
them and when you stop learning you stop
growing it really can take a pounding on
your self-confidence where I found that
I always have some other hobby that i’m
working on where there’s djing whether
it’s salsa dancing whether it’s
snowboarding and I feel like I can get
better at those right I could get better
at practicing my salsa and I’ll learn
new moves in class I was gonna mention
I’m gonna mention it because you seem
obviously you know I keep yourself busy
but you seem quite quite calm you know
not you know like you’ll see clear your
head every now and then not yet yeah
it’s so learning those things when I
feel like I businesses stock and I go
out and I learn a new salsa pattern I
feel like I’m growing again I
bring that back to my business like I
have new energy to take to my business
right so sometimes not just go deeper in
and just keep trying harder and keep
doing more if you feel like you’re not
learning or groin that’s gonna suck all
your confidence um sure so that was
that’s like the first point is just try
doing something else um and then the
second point is I would try to think of
ways to do you better there’s a lot of
ways to do sales and markets a lot of
different options you know i’m sure by
listening to the sales superstar series
you know i have advice you’re going to
listen to advice from lots of other
people as well not not all those gonna
work for you right like they could be
fine I’ve grown to a different but you
know yeah and everyone said signed up
and it’s clear that it works but it may
not work for you as you’ve gotta do you
best and so for me as example I found my
home on youtube like I love you too uh
it works for me of Who I am youtube may
not work for you and that’s cool but I
go all in on YouTube and it’s a lot
easier for me to see growth and get out
of ruts and get momentum going because
I’m doing something that I love and
enjoy or if you forced me to cold call
or to network like I hate networking
event I’m a sucky networker I suck at
networking not the guy who’s your plane
like hey I’m Evan Carmichael who are you
you know I’m the guy like I’m the
wallflower at the back of the room and
so if my business needed me to a dummy
not come across from this from how I am
kind of on camera but but for my
business be successful that relied on me
being a great networker it wouldn’t it
would fail I would I would be out of
business so i had to find another way to
stain and for me that’s speaking so I’ll
speed at event and then get a whole
bunch of people afterwards coming up to
me and asking hey I’d love to hire you
want to work with you here are some
questions I have whatever and so I built
a different model and so you’ve got to
find the path that works for you and if
you’re just pounding away on something
that you hate doing you know you will
not get great results doing things that
you hate it’s not going to happen so
you’ve got to find something that that
you love that you can go all in on and
and put blinders on like
or the advice to everybody else say hey
why don’t you try this or when you try
that find what works for you and just go
all in on it um I’m go good catch what
to do when you can’t answer a customer’s
question be honest uh you know the worst
thing you can do is lie about it though
now people can see right people can
totally see through that I think our BS
filters have never been higher and
that’s why a lot of people have this
stigma against salespeople because a lot
of the sales people will just the lie
they’ll throw BS answers out there won’t
be honest don’t be Jimmy thinking that
like I can’t I can’t appear weak I can’t
appear to not have an answer we’re
really that rather that really builds a
trust in the relationship so if you
don’t know the answer tell them you
don’t know the answer and then go find
the answer right like I honestly don’t
know but I’m going to find out for you
today and whatever call you have to make
if it’s to your you know tech team or to
somebody outside the industry whatever
it is you go find an answer as soon as
possible and that builds so much
credibility and Trust with the client
that yeah but they’ll believe everything
you’re seeing because you are upfront
and honest like that little weakness is
your strength because it builds that
trust and credibility and you’re much
more likely to get the order so you turn
it into a positive it is a positive like
that vulnerability is a positive it is
still treated as a weakness that’s good
and then got one last question for
Marcus do you think that the concept or
main message behind a business for
company is an important must have the
gory touched on this a bit would be a
yeah yeah I mean that that’s what course
selling is all about again exactly who
you are what you’re all about what you
stand for why you’re here more than what
it is that you’re selling and I think
it’s only getting more more important
because you know with with the internet
and online businesses it’s really
democratizing entrepreneurship and
democratizing businesses I’m no longer
forced to buy from you because there’s a
thousand other options that I can go to
what’s going to make me buy from you is
you and
your personality and what you stand for
and the values that you have I’m looking
for people who believe in the same thing
that I do and then it’s knowing that hey
I don’t want to target everybody I’m
targeting the Google believe in the
same thing that I do and then those
people become super loyal to you like
they love you they won’t go anywhere
else until you you know lose that trust
with them for whatever reason and
they’ll spread the message they’ll help
people learn about what you’re up to
when i switch to believe before I had a
website i had a website like tons of
other people have a website at a youtube
channel of tons of other people did and
i had videos and content for
entrepreneurs like tons of other people
do but when i switch to believe that’s
when everything started just exploding
right now now you’ve got a message yeah
i always had a message i just wasn’t
articulate about it right and so should
be on Marcos and everybody else
listening you guys all have something in
you that you firmly believe in ah that’s
what you want to put front that’s what
you want to lead with and what’s gonna
happen is some people will see that and
be like ah you know that’s that’s two
people see believe that’s stupid that’s
a that’s a you know really stupid
message and that’s great like I don’t
want you because we’re probably going to
have a terrible working relationship
together when I’m hiring people i talk
about believe right up front and some
people hate that it’s stupid fantastic
like I do not want you working for me
it’s not going to work out and then
other people love it and say wow that’s
awesome and the issue is those people
before may not have ever picked your
company like they may be comparing you
to three other competitors of you and
they may go with somebody else because
you didn’t do a good enough job sharing
what your values are but by then no
doubt you’re like you’re the default
personality this your business to lose
and it’s shrinking your market but it’s
going after a highly targeted group of
people who are now going to self-select
and pick you over other them good answer
so I’ve just to wrap up really because
we’ve reached the end of our slot but
I’ve got one more question obviously
we’ve covered a lot in this in this talk
now it’s brilliant but if there’s like
sort of one key thing which you’d want
be
watching this to take away what would it
be like what should they be doing right
now ah biggest advice I guess is maybe
the cheesiest of all and that’s follow
your passion you know anything that you
are to feeling like doing I always
believe you have to make big decisions
with your heart and not your head and
most people do the opposite you think
about the pros and cons and you make up
lists and you think what’s logical um
where you don’t want to do that you want
to follow your flow do what get too
excited and it’ll take you on a path
that is scary and unknown and not
quantifiable and people won’t believe in
you and doesn’t make any sense but
that’s where you’re going to excel you
know that’s where you’re going to show
you’re going to have some failure but
that’s where you’re going to really be
able to skyrocket and if you just follow
the you know the safe path or you know
the path that makes sense logically then
at the end of the day you’re going to be
living other people’s version of your
life instead of your own version of your
life yeah yes I’ll excite us about
everything I was gonna cover with these
these profile pieces so I think we’ve
got we’ve got a good idea of who you are
it’s been brilliant so yeah I really
appreciate you taking the time to speak
to me cool and anything or people
watching who are in front of my audience
to to see this when it goes live and for
your other pieces what’s the best way to
find you yep so um if you want to find
out more about us like our sales
training or the salespeople we’ve
profiled just head over to sales
superstars net that’s plural and then
then you can find our sales blog and
everything about us and links to our
social media accounts and that’s really
the best way to find us at starhub so
yeah we’ve got our new profiles they’re
usually written this is the first video
one but the rest written so far they’re
coming out every Tuesday and Thursday at
the moment so yeah we’ve got four up at
the moment you give you more be plenty
more on the way um yeah definitely i
really enjoyed this actually it’s a it’s
been a new experience cool so i put
Donnie to your your other websites i’m
going to update the description for
really watching to go to sales
superstars net
awesome well Anthony great meeting you
let me know in the link goes live and uh
buddy out there believe nation will see
you soon Christ Vegas you havin
hangout I’m excited to have with me
Anthony from sales superstars and what
he’s done is a blog series interviewing
people who are experts at sales and
marketing and reached out to me and said
hey Evan I love the interview from my
series and I said Austin happy to be a
part of it uh why don’t we threw it into
a video and also give you a little bit
of exposure to my audience and I’d much
rather do a video then sit there and
write answers to questions so here we
are we’re ready to go Anthony maybe for
my audience if you want to just give
them a quick overview of what you’re
doing and then jump into the questions
and here we go yes i’m anthony from
South superstars net basically we offer
full fully online sales and marketing
training all accredited by Institute
sales marketing management so over here
that’s the only professional body
approved by the UK government which to
actually offer actual qualifications to
sell the marketing so go for our
training you don’t destroy your skills
you get an actual instantly recognised
qualification to prove it so it’s pretty
good and we also got blog which is where
I come in so I try and speak to various
sales and marketing people put together
profile pieces find out about the career
where they are how they got to where
they are and things I picked up along
the way that’s what we’re doing today so
all right so yeah probably best to yeah
I’ll try to keep it to about 20-30
minutes but yeah we’ll just dive right
in so probably best to start the
beginner I think obviously I know that
you’ve had quite an early starting to
the world of business by which I mean
you started when you were five years old
what can you tell me about that it’s
true ah so my first my first business I
guess was I was 5 my younger sister was
three and I convinced her to make
pictures that we drew with I don’t was
crayons or paint whatever it was and
then later that afternoon we went
door-to-door selling them and my first
sale ever was to my next door neighbor
for sense who bought one of my pictures
and that was my first sale ever I’ve
been building businesses ever since so I
mean obviously among five year old to be
like and I don’t like an astral or
spider-man or saying
why’d you want to be a businessman
applied that’s a great question I
honestly don’t know and I’m thinking you
know my son is home from school now and
he’s uh he’s almost 6 years old so like
he’s fine now or I was said that’s your
your age you thinking kind of reflect on
that um I honestly don’t know you know
my parents weren’t entrepreneurs uh
there’s nobody my favorites
entrepreneurs nobody encouraged me to
start a business really I do my personal
um yeah so I don’t know where it came
from i guess something to me um you know
my parents always uh supported anything
i wanted to do but even through my house
high school years I you know at the high
school at the end when you graduate you
have to write the yearbook you know
where you’re gonna be years I wrote VP
at a bank like I thought it was thought
I was gonna be a banker when I changed
when i got to university but i guess
I’ve always had entrepreneurial
tendencies but because it wasn’t part of
my environment growing up I headed down
a different path and I’m thankful that I
eventually discovered entrepreneurship
mmm yeah so you didn’t type this little
traditional businessman route I guess so
obviously you can’t be carried on
selling from your childhood even when
you were at school still yeah my next
you know business was baseball cards I
during the craze and up in the world
yeah yeah I’m from Toronto Canada and in
92 93 are our baseball team the Toronto
Blue Jays were winning the world series
so it was a big deal everything was all
hype baseball at the time are other
sports franchises you know sucked so
it’s all about baseball and so people
were collecting baseball cards and at
that point I was 12 and 13 and I had a
little mini baseball card Empire buying
and selling and trading and every week
uh you know we go visit dealers and Here
I am kind of negotiating with 40 year
olds and 50 year olds and I’m this kid
trying to say but I with it what I
taking you seriously uh yeah
I had the cards and I had money so all
right you know they’re willing to deal
and they got to know me but i would i
would be a you know every every dollar
when your kid is is a lot you know like
they have a lot of loud so i’ve been
negotiating down to like in ten cent
chunks you know if i could get a card
for 290 instead of three dollars that
saved me huge huge cash and we should do
garage sales and stuff and I would
always have my little table baseball
cards and I would always usually sell
more make more money from my baseball
cards and my family did you know from
the garage sale stuff um so yeah I went
from that and then and then launch the
whole launch the number of different you
know companies that that didn’t really
ever take off the first business I had
to fill to go when you’re in your teens
yeah yeah just just ideas you know uh
and you know I’m how old am I now I’m 35
I’m 35 sure yeah 30 year anniversary for
the five year older torrington actually
go back to try to paint something and go
door to door and see if I could sell it
um yeah good point uh and and it was you
know growing up I was just getting into
computers right like now everybody goes
I period of my son as an iPad all but uh
you know we had one computer per family
we have a you know dial-up modem aah ice
alone I started a summer business with a
friend of mine and we on one computer to
share so we would work in chunks like we
would work 24 hours a day on the
comparator but split up right so like we
were working for our chunks and
overnight he worked her like the 12 the
4am ship well I would sleep and then
he’d wake me up with four and then I
would wake the I would work the 4am the
8 a.m. shift then I go back to bed and
you know trying to share resources you
only had one computer that business
never never took off but you know I
guess I’ve always had that kind of
entrepreneurial instinct and drive just
just try it yeah just to just to try and
and I guess I do thank my parents and
that they were always encouraging like
they always support everything I did
even they couldn’t give me uh you know
advice on what to do they always they
made me believe in myself and feel like
hey whatever I want to try I can go and
potentially have success with sure so
what we like a sort of school and
university updated got all these
projects going on the side it must have
a eats and into your concentration at
school they’re surely um you know I was
never a fantastic student I wasn’t a
terrible student um and I have two
sisters one older and one younger and
they both were students and I had the
eyes every duck out yeah yeah like I was
getting like B’s and C’s that’s not like
terrible but but not on work my sister
is getting straight A’s uh and I
remember every every semester having to
sit down with my parents when my report
card came in to have the talk about why
I wasn’t you know doing well um and I
always dreaded it but they always you
know they always left me feeling um like
I could do it you know my mother’s last
name is cast rly it’s my middle name yet
until they would always tell me your cuz
truly Carmichael you can do it um so
they always left me feeling like I could
do it and I could get better and then in
my last year of high school my
expectations for myself started to
exceed my parents expectations of me and
in my last year high school had straight
90s all they wanted me to get with
straight A’s right now now I want it to
be like higher than what they thought of
me for some reason I don’t know why I
don’t know what change in like that last
year of high school um but I ended up
gradually lot whether like a like a
mindset change here and maybe I you know
what I think I think I gotta meditate on
it or something I gotta go deep in right
it’s like it’s buried I’m sure there’s a
reason but it’s buried something here
that I don’t put an actual effect on you
yeah maybe one day it’ll come um maybe
this will spawn Anthony inspiration to
dig deep and Cocteau
psychologists as to why gene and I
couldn’t be a psychiatrist yeah I backup
career there you go we’ve got a soothing
voice you know you got the accent going
on okay um yeah and and none of my
ventures really did much like I saw
baseball cards you know you know make a
couple hundred dollars kind of thing but
it wasn’t ever for me that was huge
money but it wasn’t ever anything here’s
a substantial um bunch of stuff that
didn’t work and then the first business
that that actually took off was when I
got to university and that’s what I had
the important decision between getting
the job that I thought I always wanted
in banking I had huge opportunities and
I turned them down to go do this startup
thing where I was broke uh but ended up
taking off well um did you sort of take
finance at at University then is that
what you’re still not dead set on
banking yeah I saw at the University of
Toronto I what was my major economics so
like run kind of hardcore into it money
yeah yeah I now I loved economics in
high school my best subject I just have
a natural feel for it I kind of got so
frustrated when I started doing my own
business and I got to university because
I found economics was 22 big picture
stuff right like how does this impact me
you know like do I care if they were
still you were still growing a business
at that point money from the yeah i love
the all idea in case of you know from an
economic point of view if we increase
the interest rate what happens to all
these in this room um and it impacts
policy and there’s a lot of you know
ways you can take it but you know if I’m
an entrepreneur what do I care like do I
have an in do I have a ability to
control that maybe by electing officials
but I felt like it wasn’t super
practical anymore for me it wasn’t how
are we running a business and so I took
a I took a small business course at my
university and and it was almost a joke
like this was a four-year this is my
fourth year I’m graduating it was a
small business course at university of
toronto is a very reputable university
probably the most corrupted bowlin in
the country and it was such basic stuff
like i was already running my business
at the time and thought wow this is this
is not very helpful for me um and it was
on the friend you would love you were
learning or learning more doing it at
that point I guess way more learning way
more doing than than being in that being
in the class but um I was on the fence
because growing into University I
thought I wanted to be in the banking
industry and in my last year I had
opportunities to work with McKinsey
Consulting and Merrill Lynch okay and
they you know like the biggest names in
strategic consultant in the bank on a
screen it’s like this is a dream this is
what I always this is what i said in my
high school yearbook that i wanted to do
and you know they flew me to New York
and put me up in a world of Astoria
we’re doing interviews and at the time I
had my company where i was making three
hundred dollars a month and like not
surviving and super poor and something
about that just made me feel like you
know the smart rational same thing to do
is go take the job right I it’s like 80
to 100 thousand dollars starting salary
flying around the world doing what I
thought I wanted to do but it just
didn’t feel right and and I don’t know
you know I guess takes um it was scary
taking the leap to do a
three-hundred-dollar month business you
know no security where I could have done
that job the gamble to take on just a
failing in them yeah and I think what
helped me was uh two things 1i didn’t
want to regret it you know I don’t want
to look back and say man I wish I just
gave that a little bit more you know I
wish I gave that another six months to
really I felt like I would regret it if
I didn’t try and then I also told myself
you know what like these jobs will still
be there in a year they’ll still be
there I could always go back and get get
these jobs and I felt you know what some
of my friends are taking a year off
they’re going to go travel the war
rather than go backpacking in Europe or
whatever I’m going to take a year and
try to make my business work and those
two things going to help gave me the
courage to to do that um right and I’m
glad I never ended up having another job
you know ever since so what was the what
was the sort of turning point then like
you say you’re only making three hundred
dollars a month what did you start doing
differently what what what propelled it
to success ah that’s a fantastic
question because I was you know those
were some of the hardest days of my
entire life like citing the business I
could imagine here is no joke right um
it’s hard it’s the hardest thing you
know maybe apart from parenting you it’s
the hardest thing you’re ever gonna do
in your life and you know what
everything’s going great it’s easy to
get along and I had two business
partners and and we got along really
well but when you’re you know beyond
poor and you think you have a great
product and everything i had done up
until that point if I applied myself I
could get better results right if I
apply myself to academics I got aids if
I applied myself to sports I got faster
here I was trying to hype myself and I
was just sucking hard you know nothing
working um writing and I got to the pole
where I told my partner I quit aa really
yeah I told them one day I quit you know
this is I feel worthless I feel like I’m
adding no value I feel like I’m just
taking a pounding on my self-worth and I
gotta go do something where I can get
some meaningful like just feel like a
contributing human being but um what the
next day I woke up went back I was
running yeah and luckily he left he
didn’t give me a hard time about it you
know he I you know we work out of his
apartment I worked at it off his kitchen
table and he just opened the door and we
just went back to work so I’m grateful
to him for that um I’ve read that you
like stand-up desks is that is that
where you got it because you just had to
sort of stand up at his kitchen desk
gonna oh that’s cool no i’m using a
certain now so i am standing I
that for Mona play my just before so
habit from those days but now I was
sitting down the stand-up desk came I
think I’ve been doing it for maybe three
or four maybe longer three four five
years something like that that came just
because my knees were hurting a lot my
back was hurting a lot I’m in front of
the computer a lot like that’s part of
what I do was always another computer um
but I’m always trying different things
and interested in growth hacking and
different solutions and so I just tried
putting my computer I worked up a laptop
and I just try to put it on the
bookshelf and and I tried that for a
week and I liked it and so I just
started using a stand-up desk and I
don’t I get more energy like when I’m
talking to people talking to you I’m
standing up i have more provide going
there i’m gonna sit down it’s me like
some people love sitting down at school
I it takes a while they used to standing
up all day long but it can be a little
awkward when people come over from
meetings and there’s nowhere to sit but
otherwise yeah I’m a huge fan um all
right back back to the kitchen yeah so
you’re asking by the turning point the
turning point came where you know after
that frustration after I told them that
I quit I obviously went back to work the
next day and I had to I told myself this
is crazy like what I’m doing is not
working I want to keep going on find a
different way to stand like I can’t keep
doing it the way I’m doing it and the
light bulb moment came off when I
realized I’m not the first guy to try to
sell software before that’s we were
selling we had a software product was
biotech software my two partners were
the creators that the coders the
scientists and I was the business
business guy um and what I started doing
was in Milan success and I said okay who
else who else has sold software and make
turned it into a huge company you know
maybe not biotechs top floor because it
was still really new but who’s built a
huge software company like I could learn
from that and I looked at stores like
Bill Gates and I looked at mcafee and I
looked at a whole bunch of companies and
not how Bill Gates makes an extra
million dollars now
right it’s like it’s irrelevant he’s
super rich it’s not going to help me but
0 to 1 how did that happen how do you
open zero that’s what I wanted to do how
do I make that happen you studied it
yeah you know the bigger the company is
the easier it is to find out about their
their story um Bill Gates did it through
partnerships he partnered with companies
to you know who had his target market
and foremost alliances to grow his
business and Microsoft’s big famous deal
came with IBM where every IBM computer
had Microsoft software on it not being
was the biggest computer maker at the
time but can afford that point IBM was
RS re Microsoft was already a seven
million dollar company you know seven
million dollars isn’t huge but it’s
seven million dollars more than what I
had and so how did they get the 7
million those through partnerships again
so they continued to partner with
manufacturers of computers and so I
started applying that strategy to my
business or something who can i partner
with instead of me trying to sell
individual people one at a time who can
i partner with to get this thing going
and within two weeks I had my first deal
with a company out of the UK that’s
great you came to make sure I need
direction we did upfront sales of 13 and
a half thousand dollars for an exclusive
license to sell our software and that
just like 13 and a half thousand dollars
are you kidding me that was huge at the
moment right breaking I make it three
hundred dollars a month and here’s 13
and a half K um I know now it doesn’t
seem like a lot of money but to me that
was that was like well considering you
of considering your first I was five
cents i think it’s a step up and look
yeah i mean we always eaten beans for
lunch every day whenever we had a a new
client that you know we want to
celebrate we went to mcdonalds and got
french fries that was our celebration
you know it’s like really extraordinaire
yeah really like poverty line kind of
stuff so 13 a half thousand dollars was
pretty life-changing and more
importantly
it gave me a model to duplicate like I
could do that in other markets too not
just the UK and then I started following
that and going off their other companies
making more partnerships and then we
started to grow quickly and then we got
you know NASA as a customer johnson
Johnson is a customer and you know three
years from when I said I quit we had
sold our business we’ve been acquired by
another company so it’s just massive
growth and it all started with that
change in mindset that I don’t have to
be the genius and come up with every
idea myself try to model success and
kind of what you’re doing with this
series right you want people the model
on our for like yeah okay uh what makes
people tick yeah so just to just yeah
just to sort of them go go back a little
bit obviously you said you turn down the
M turn down the job offers it’s a big
financial firms so that would have been
an easy way to money so I’m guessing
it’s not about money for you so what is
it that you sort of want in life what
way is it that you want to get out of it
ah now I have a much clearer
understanding when I did before ah sure
I thrive on impact you know I want to
help a billion entrepreneur I know that
I can help somebody and I’ve touched
them that this huge meaning for me that
gets me super excited and I can run off
those fumes for a long time um yeah but
kind of orchestrated my entire business
around that back then I didn’t have that
kind of self-awareness and it was more
about the fear of regret like I talked
about right like i like i might not you
know be able to live with myself and I
thought about the Michael Dell example
and how he started he took one summer
off from university was studying to be a
doctor in University and he took a
summer off right focus on this business
when his parents wanted him to stay and
be a doctor and he said just give me
till to give me till the end of the
summer and if it doesn’t work then I’ll
go back and finish my degree and be a
doctor like you want you know it
obviously did while I never had to go
back and finish that degree and I just
felt like I want to know
you know if if it doesn’t work and i
suck that’s fine I just I just need to
know it’s like it’s like you know this
is a pretty girl that you want to ask
out and and you could live with yourself
if you ask and she turns you down but
you can’t live with yourself with not
asking like that haunts you forever and
so I didn’t want to be haunted and I try
to live my life with this few regrets as
possible and that first you know huge
decision helped shape that thinking for
me um and now we’re agog about
describing yeah probably quite a good
way I described in a sort of
entrepreneurial mindset generally that I
think yeah it could be it could be um
until I’ve constant what wanted you know
I try to live a lot more proactively and
by the job than just reacting the things
um and and I wasn’t sure at all by the
way like I can look back on this story
and say look out what great it’s worked
out but it was a it was a scary
situation um and I and I wasn’t sure
that I was making the right decision at
all it wasn’t like oh yeah I got this no
problem it was it was nowhere close to
that so but I’m glad you know I’m glad
and it just says like full circle moment
some of the people are graduated with
from that University then came back to
me you know five years later and they’re
like Evan I hate my job I want to start
when he really is how do i how do i go
there and it and I’m just wow I’m so
glad that I didn’t I’m not here I’m so
glad I didn’t go down that packet of
anything I could have been me almost was
me yeah so what you want to tell me
about where you went from here after
selling that business so I saw the
business I and we’ve got a bunch of
questions coming in too by the way I
know if you want to get to those but I’m
always happen in two years already um
where where did I go show how to get to
see him oh it’s on the live stream if
you go to yahoo my youtube channel just
turn it on mute turn that video I’m you
from here though you have to go up to
that yeah if you go to channel you’ll
see the string show okay I’ll go
where did I go I sold my business it was
sad like this was what I had worked on
for the past couple years and we turned
it into something amazing and i actually
didn’t want to sell it at the time it
was more of a personal decision for my
partners who really wanted to get to
California that was like their life goal
was to get the California and be in the
scene and as Canadians you can’t just go
to California um and so we got we got an
offer to be acquired by a Japanese
company that was headquartered in
California and so we sold the business
and and then I didn’t know what to do
next to be honest I didn’t have this
plan of what to do next one of the
things i found was i wanted to learn
more about the financing industry rate
up capital we never need a capital we
never raise capital is always
bootstrapped all everything but i was
interested in it we almost looked at it
we were interested in curious by so I
hooked up with a venture capital company
here in Toronto where I was helping
facilitate deals half a million to 15
million kind of growth capital for
companies and did that for a while and
as a result of my success in selling my
business I got asked to do a lot of
speaking I’m speaking to help inspire
young entrepreneurs sharing the story
all of that stuff and then it slowly
grew and I used my website to share
information about raising capital right
in in the same time learned a lot from
the partners at the VC business they
were all in their sixties or seventies
and knew the street really well had a
ton of experience but also warrant like
super hard working anymore they had made
their money it was like a retirement job
for them and they weren’t actively and
aggressively going after new business so
that was part of my roles hey let’s
bring in new people to help raise money
for and so I got to learn that process
and learn how they fought and get
exposed to a lot of different industries
and businesses where before I was just I
just new software that’s all I knew um
and then my business started to take off
and that I was being asked to do a lot
of speaking and
during a lot of content and I felt like
I had tapped out my learning at at the
venture capital business you’re learning
a lot so quickly then it started popping
off i’m still learning but you know like
anything else that the learning here
started yeah now you could probably
learn more doing doing your business I
guess yeah my god I got a papal remember
Walter life I got um I got the itch to
do something on my own again I’m sure
and so so i started i started Evan
Carmichael calm and started having the
main goal was to try to help
entrepreneurs in not uh having to go
through all the painful things that I
had to go through you know trying to
bribe I wish somebody told me about
Milan success way earlier like I again I
had no business mentors in my life I
just tried to figure this out myself so
I just wanted to help other
entrepreneurs not almost quit or not
fully quit like I almost did and just
make things a little bit easier and so
that’s that’s why I started what I do
now and I guess it’s been over 10 years
um yeah and yeah been an awesome ride
and continuing to believe and help more
entrepreneurs and that’s what keeps me
going yeah I’m just got the comments up
now so I mean this this might tie into
blue Drew’s comment of so you started
using the word believe over the past
couple of years George you want to tell
me a little bit about sort what the what
the meaning is behind that because you
mentioned earlier how your parents
really supported to do and they seem to
believe in you it’s anything to do with
that yeah sure I mean you see it on the
wall there obviously uh you know I think
it’s important to have a slogan and a
tagline it’s something that people can
remember you by and that’s where I
started I was never happy with the tag
lines that I used um you know I started
with something like motivation and
strategies for entrepreneurs yeah then I
moved to like the mcdonalds model where
I had you know over 14 million
entrepreneurs help them counting that
you kind of see in the mcdonald signs
but i still wasn’t happy with it I felt
like it was just a
it wasn’t a true reflection of what I
was trying to get out um yeah then I
started just making a list and I’m
actually writing the book about this
process a little be fully detailed than
that but um I just making a list of the
things that I I stood for and started
thinking about what I really enjoyed
from my life not not in a business
context just in general like why do I
love my parents what what’s my favorite
movie and why do I like it what kind of
music do I listen to and why do I like
that I just started writing down themes
um and believed was one of them but when
I moved out on a piece of paper I
thought I that’s too that’s too simple
like catches we believe is gotta be
believed something believe in yourself
believe in what you’re doing I had to
have some it just felt too short and too
big of a word and so I slept on it and
they came back to the list the next day
and and it just felt more and more right
you seem to them you seem to have a lot
of really good ideas in your sleep like
a when you quit your quick your company
and then slept on it came back the next
day same with your tagline now you know
it’s Qi you know you can get a lot of
ideas from sleeping um I like to sleep
on it I’m not uh I don’t think I’m
self-aware enough and I’m not um I’m not
a rash decision maker you know like I
don’t make it to run on the spot unless
I’ve thought about it I’m a terrible
arguer I’m a terrible fighter because I
can’t think quickly enough I got to
think about what I say and it’s terrible
for fights right so so you know it took
me a while to come down to my one word I
believe some people to get it quick like
yeah that’s me this is my word you know
they pick it that you have certainty and
for me it took a while to get to it um
but but I sound a sound I think it
sounds like you’ve always had it like
you said when you were kids you didn’t
do so well at school until the moment
where you believe that you could become
something better even more so than your
parents believed you know so sounds like
it’s always been there yeah and I
believe everybody has one word that
defines for the art has always been a
part of you always will be a part
of you and when you figure out what not
easier to live your life on purpose
instead of just being reactionary and
make decisions so much easier um and so
yes it’s always in a part my favorite
movie is Seabiscuit have you seen
Seabiscuit but it’s written O’Shea now
knows about us put a war is it like
everybody give up on and you know and
then ends up winning all these races
everything and it’s a pretty no it’s a
cheesy movie in whatever I’ve seen a
movie like 20 times or something I still
love it but it’s all about belief look
that’s what it’s all about the songs i
listen to you’ll influence my parent
everything in my everything that I’d
love in life like what attracts you to
the friends that I have it’s all about
believe in some contacts and so now that
I have that understanding I can make
decisions a lot more easily and stay
motivated and stay away from things that
you know may seem like an opportunity
but don’t quite thick with what I you
know really staying for just makes
everything so much easier so um
obviously we’ve touched on this with
belief but you know you work with a
profile like tons of entrepreneurs
business people sales people what you
think makes a really great one um I
think maybe this is cheesy but I just
think authenticity I think I’m not a
huge fan obviously of most salespeople
um I think a lot of times and
entrepreneurs you have to be a
salesperson to sell you your stuff right
I don’t think too many times people just
trying to sell something and they don’t
they don’t even believe in what they’re
selling like you’re just trying to make
your quota and you don’t actually even
use your product or love it or like
that’s why so many businesses will fail
is entrepreneurs get into it just trying
to make a quick buck you see an
opportunity and you go for it and and
it’s always harder than you think it’s
going to be in the business ends up
feeling so you’ve got it you’ve got to
absolutely love what you’re selling and
have a story to talk about it with and
you sharing how you use it and how your
clients use it and and like telling it
in a way that’s that makes you feel
proud like you know you made this
software tool and you made it because
you had these problems now these
customers are using it and they’re using
to save lives and like that’s meaningful
to you that’s going to be so much more
effective than just selling off of a
product sheet list and listen out the
features and benefits so I’m also a big
believer in what I call poor selling and
I think it’s the next step of selling
were when you first start selling
something if you haven’t gone through
any training or anything you should
start selling the features right
everybody’s selling features here’s what
I software product can do whatever then
somewhere along the lines going to put
the benefits right this is like standard
sales training grew and you’re selling
the benefits but I think the level above
that which should come first is your
value you know people more than ever
want to know what kind of company you
are and what you stand for and and we
attracted to the mission that you’re on
and then we’ll buy anything that you
come up with as long as it can help them
in some way so yes the features are so
important yes it benefits is so
important but more important is who are
you as a company or if you’re a
solopreneur or you as a person what do
you standing in two personalities from
so the soul what’s the mission that
you’re on right and that’s something
that people will gravitate to and
they’ll people will buy products because
because they know that you’re on that
mission there on that path with you so
example is uh you know honest com if you
guys if you know honest company they
sell diapers and kids kids clothing and
you know beauty products kind of stuff
they want the world to be more honest
place you know so everything you make
they try to have all organic materials
and they try to reduce their footprint
on the world and ship locally and hire
locally all this stuff and they’re
living their values and so people people
will go and buy from them because they
believe in that mission as well and you
don’t even have to think is this product
organic or not because it’s coming from
the honest company so you know what’s
made with honest intentions and it went
from nothing to you know 200 million in
sales in three years and so people want
to know first who you are what you stand
for marketing
much more about values and it ever has
been and then you can get into if you
get them to know you like you trust you
then then they’re going to be much more
than talking to you about what your
parking services can do and then how
they work sure so we’ve had quite a few
interesting questions in let’s say we
can solve a quick five four REE some of
these quickly jam interested hear from
someone called Dmitri asking what are
there any funny or crazy moments during
your sales career well sure ah sicculets
brings Devon you know I remember when I
first started selling my software I was
super awkward super nervous no
confidence I should get hung up on you
know just beating me to the point where
I didn’t want to sell anything I felt
like man this is terrible i’m just
getting rejection after rejection after
rejection and I it was it was all in my
head you know because I was a young guy
I was out of there was like 20 years old
I was selling to people three times my
age you had PhDs who I had no science
background is my worst subject in school
and like now I’m trying to sell science
software and I just felt I felt like I
couldn’t do it and then something
twigged where I realized that I think I
was just looking at like the
testimonials or something that people
were using our software and they loved
it so I realize that I could provide
benefit to them like I can help them and
when I went in with that approach or
just a mindset shift and knowing that I
had belief in my product and knowing
that I can provide them with something
that will really help them what they’re
doing when they’re research I found that
they were really need to talk to me like
they didn’t care that I was 20 years old
they didn’t carry didn’t have a PhD they
didn’t care about any of this stuff all
they cared about was can you help me and
I could and once I went in with that
approach I I started seeing a lot more
results um and it’s taking me a while to
kind of like beat that out of my system
I don’t know where that came from like
that limiting South belief but even now
not now like today but
my recent in my business now where I
help entrepreneurs one of the first
brains to reach out to me to try to do a
deal I do a lot of work with brands like
Dell and Intel and guys were trying to
reach on kroners my first it was with
Microsoft one of them and and I was so
nervous and I thought like Microsoft
doesn’t need me like it’s a huge how can
I help Microsoft there Microsoft man you
know and I thought I was gonna lose a
deal I and I sucked in our first like
exploratory calls and then I realized
like real reason why there’s an interest
in me and and I looked at what they were
producing I felt like they could do so
much better and I have an audience and I
can really help them and when I really
embraced and felt confident that I could
help them let it start at the change
then I started to get more deals and I
started to be able to increase my
budgets with them and so there was a lot
of like that awkwardness and terrible I
don’t know if that’s you know maybe not
funny but I sucked as a salesperson I
sucked badly until I had the confidence
knowing that I could actually provide
not like an arrogance like we’re the
best blah blah blah but like what I’m
selling can actually help you and just
talk about that they didn’t care about
my background or anything else and
they’re willing have a discussion sure
all right and then we’ll just keep
working down these breaks of
international opinion on best practices
for generating hyper own digital product
launch if you’ve got anything particular
in mind ah my best advice would be to
start engaging with influencers a buddy
who’s an expert and has an audience in
your industry I don’t know what kind of
digital product you have but look at who
all the experts are and reach out to
them with a genuine message saying why
you like them why you should into them
and that you have a product that you
think might help so for example I work
with entrepreneurs right I have a big
audience of entrepreneurs most of you
guys watching now charity of your own
business you know if you’re trying to
launch a makeup product yes i have a
huge audience but i can’t help you right
like that’s not i’m not a consumer
packaged goods channel but if you have a
product that helps entrepreneurs I could
help you sell it in a
I’m genuinely interested like I want to
know personally what is out there noon
with us for entrepreneurs and so you
know if you approach me with not a pitch
but telling me you know engage with some
of my stuff tell me what you like about
it what could be improved and what
you’re working on and let me feel your
passion for entrepreneurs with me and
that that should be like a genuine
authentic process because you’re
creating a product out of love and not
just to seize an opportunity um that’s
gonna be your best bet and find you know
the top top 25 top 30 people who are
influencers in your market and and reach
out to them those guys will do all the
selling for you you don’t have to worry
about picking up the phone and trying to
get these guys one by one by one and
then we’ll offs best way of a sales
brought I’m guessing one of the answers
is that massive word painted behind you
anything else yeah um you know this
happens in the sales rep but it also is
also why you’ll have lots of ruts you
know as such as ice happen to everyone
the car under the blue everyone calm
down um two things that I find helpful
one is on this may seem counterintuitive
do something else uh have a hobby have
something where you feel like you’re
getting better and you’re learning um
one of the you know one of the biggest
challenges are people when you tie so
much to your career to your business and
entrepreneurs we’re going to go all in
them or companies is that when you stop
when you hit a rut your life is over
it’s like everything’s terrible your
your deep down and you’re not growing in
them and when you stop learning you stop
growing it really can take a pounding on
your self-confidence where I found that
I always have some other hobby that i’m
working on where there’s djing whether
it’s salsa dancing whether it’s
snowboarding and I feel like I can get
better at those right I could get better
at practicing my salsa and I’ll learn
new moves in class I was gonna mention
I’m gonna mention it because you seem
obviously you know I keep yourself busy
but you seem quite quite calm you know
not you know like you’ll see clear your
head every now and then not yet yeah
it’s so learning those things when I
feel like I businesses stock and I go
out and I learn a new salsa pattern I
feel like I’m growing again I
bring that back to my business like I
have new energy to take to my business
right so sometimes not just go deeper in
and just keep trying harder and keep
doing more if you feel like you’re not
learning or groin that’s gonna suck all
your confidence um sure so that was
that’s like the first point is just try
doing something else um and then the
second point is I would try to think of
ways to do you better there’s a lot of
ways to do sales and markets a lot of
different options you know i’m sure by
listening to the sales superstar series
you know i have advice you’re going to
listen to advice from lots of other
people as well not not all those gonna
work for you right like they could be
fine I’ve grown to a different but you
know yeah and everyone said signed up
and it’s clear that it works but it may
not work for you as you’ve gotta do you
best and so for me as example I found my
home on youtube like I love you too uh
it works for me of Who I am youtube may
not work for you and that’s cool but I
go all in on YouTube and it’s a lot
easier for me to see growth and get out
of ruts and get momentum going because
I’m doing something that I love and
enjoy or if you forced me to cold call
or to network like I hate networking
event I’m a sucky networker I suck at
networking not the guy who’s your plane
like hey I’m Evan Carmichael who are you
you know I’m the guy like I’m the
wallflower at the back of the room and
so if my business needed me to a dummy
not come across from this from how I am
kind of on camera but but for my
business be successful that relied on me
being a great networker it wouldn’t it
would fail I would I would be out of
business so i had to find another way to
stain and for me that’s speaking so I’ll
speed at event and then get a whole
bunch of people afterwards coming up to
me and asking hey I’d love to hire you
want to work with you here are some
questions I have whatever and so I built
a different model and so you’ve got to
find the path that works for you and if
you’re just pounding away on something
that you hate doing you know you will
not get great results doing things that
you hate it’s not going to happen so
you’ve got to find something that that
you love that you can go all in on and
and put blinders on like
or the advice to everybody else say hey
why don’t you try this or when you try
that find what works for you and just go
all in on it um I’m go good catch what
to do when you can’t answer a customer’s
question be honest uh you know the worst
thing you can do is lie about it though
now people can see right people can
totally see through that I think our BS
filters have never been higher and
that’s why a lot of people have this
stigma against salespeople because a lot
of the sales people will just the lie
they’ll throw BS answers out there won’t
be honest don’t be Jimmy thinking that
like I can’t I can’t appear weak I can’t
appear to not have an answer we’re
really that rather that really builds a
trust in the relationship so if you
don’t know the answer tell them you
don’t know the answer and then go find
the answer right like I honestly don’t
know but I’m going to find out for you
today and whatever call you have to make
if it’s to your you know tech team or to
somebody outside the industry whatever
it is you go find an answer as soon as
possible and that builds so much
credibility and Trust with the client
that yeah but they’ll believe everything
you’re seeing because you are upfront
and honest like that little weakness is
your strength because it builds that
trust and credibility and you’re much
more likely to get the order so you turn
it into a positive it is a positive like
that vulnerability is a positive it is
still treated as a weakness that’s good
and then got one last question for
Marcus do you think that the concept or
main message behind a business for
company is an important must have the
gory touched on this a bit would be a
yeah yeah I mean that that’s what course
selling is all about again exactly who
you are what you’re all about what you
stand for why you’re here more than what
it is that you’re selling and I think
it’s only getting more more important
because you know with with the internet
and online businesses it’s really
democratizing entrepreneurship and
democratizing businesses I’m no longer
forced to buy from you because there’s a
thousand other options that I can go to
what’s going to make me buy from you is
you and
your personality and what you stand for
and the values that you have I’m looking
for people who believe in the same thing
that I do and then it’s knowing that hey
I don’t want to target everybody I’m
targeting the Google believe in the
same thing that I do and then those
people become super loyal to you like
they love you they won’t go anywhere
else until you you know lose that trust
with them for whatever reason and
they’ll spread the message they’ll help
people learn about what you’re up to
when i switch to believe before I had a
website i had a website like tons of
other people have a website at a youtube
channel of tons of other people did and
i had videos and content for
entrepreneurs like tons of other people
do but when i switch to believe that’s
when everything started just exploding
right now now you’ve got a message yeah
i always had a message i just wasn’t
articulate about it right and so should
be on Marcos and everybody else
listening you guys all have something in
you that you firmly believe in ah that’s
what you want to put front that’s what
you want to lead with and what’s gonna
happen is some people will see that and
be like ah you know that’s that’s two
people see believe that’s stupid that’s
a that’s a you know really stupid
message and that’s great like I don’t
want you because we’re probably going to
have a terrible working relationship
together when I’m hiring people i talk
about believe right up front and some
people hate that it’s stupid fantastic
like I do not want you working for me
it’s not going to work out and then
other people love it and say wow that’s
awesome and the issue is those people
before may not have ever picked your
company like they may be comparing you
to three other competitors of you and
they may go with somebody else because
you didn’t do a good enough job sharing
what your values are but by then no
doubt you’re like you’re the default
personality this your business to lose
and it’s shrinking your market but it’s
going after a highly targeted group of
people who are now going to self-select
and pick you over other them good answer
so I’ve just to wrap up really because
we’ve reached the end of our slot but
I’ve got one more question obviously
we’ve covered a lot in this in this talk
now it’s brilliant but if there’s like
sort of one key thing which you’d want
be
watching this to take away what would it
be like what should they be doing right
now ah biggest advice I guess is maybe
the cheesiest of all and that’s follow
your passion you know anything that you
are to feeling like doing I always
believe you have to make big decisions
with your heart and not your head and
most people do the opposite you think
about the pros and cons and you make up
lists and you think what’s logical um
where you don’t want to do that you want
to follow your flow do what get too
excited and it’ll take you on a path
that is scary and unknown and not
quantifiable and people won’t believe in
you and doesn’t make any sense but
that’s where you’re going to excel you
know that’s where you’re going to show
you’re going to have some failure but
that’s where you’re going to really be
able to skyrocket and if you just follow
the you know the safe path or you know
the path that makes sense logically then
at the end of the day you’re going to be
living other people’s version of your
life instead of your own version of your
life yeah yes I’ll excite us about
everything I was gonna cover with these
these profile pieces so I think we’ve
got we’ve got a good idea of who you are
it’s been brilliant so yeah I really
appreciate you taking the time to speak
to me cool and anything or people
watching who are in front of my audience
to to see this when it goes live and for
your other pieces what’s the best way to
find you yep so um if you want to find
out more about us like our sales
training or the salespeople we’ve
profiled just head over to sales
superstars net that’s plural and then
then you can find our sales blog and
everything about us and links to our
social media accounts and that’s really
the best way to find us at starhub so
yeah we’ve got our new profiles they’re
usually written this is the first video
one but the rest written so far they’re
coming out every Tuesday and Thursday at
the moment so yeah we’ve got four up at
the moment you give you more be plenty
more on the way um yeah definitely i
really enjoyed this actually it’s a it’s
been a new experience cool so i put
Donnie to your your other websites i’m
going to update the description for
really watching to go to sales
superstars net
awesome well Anthony great meeting you
let me know in the link goes live and uh
buddy out there believe nation will see
you soon Christ Vegas you havin
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