just because you’re doing something and
you’re successful at it does not mean
you have to continue doing it if you do
two things it’s hard to be good at those
two things but if you do like a bunch of
things that are all somewhat related
they kind of like fuel into each other
what’s the single worst marketing
decision that you can make and I think
we’ve all been there
it’s that you start with a crappy
product I think the big thing is you
don’t leave until you spotted the
landing I find us so many young people
it’s like I want them to be successful
or I want them to work well for me like
more than they want it for themselves
I’ve worked on close to a dozen
bestsellers it was the single most
effective thing that I’ve ever seen in
the history of book marketing wealth is
nice if you have it but if you make your
personal happiness dependent on having
this money that’s bad honestly if I ever
caught like the 18 year old version of
myself saying I was like destined for
greatness or some ridiculous thing like
that I would be two of them or how do we
make this product Oh viral but of course
it’s never going to go viral because it
sucks if you think you already know
everything you’ve stopped being a
student and you’re not going to learn
anymore
I’m an American author marketer and
entrepreneur I’m a media strategist
behind best-selling authors like Tony
Robbins and Robert Greene I’ve worked
with big brands like Google complex and
taser I’m the former marketing director
for American Apparel and I’m going to
editor-at-large the New York Observer
i’m ryan holiday and here are my top ten
rules for success just because you’re
doing something and you’re successful at
it does not mean you have to continue
doing it and in some ways your
willingness to take big risks
tip lines where your life is going like
click right now you know I got a great
house I got this cool stuff like am I
willing if the right opportunity comes
up am I willing to leverage all that to
bet again that that your your
willingness to take those risks
especially when you’re young is the
difference between like I think an
average life and an extraordinary life
what I found that I have this weird
thing where I think like if you do one
thing you can be like really good at
that one thing if you do two things it’s
hard to be good at those two things but
if you do like a bunch of things that
are all somewhat related they’re kind of
like fuel into each other so it’s like
I was working for these authors and I
was learning how blogging works which
turned around and became very relevant
at American Apparel but there I’m
learning other things about like ad
buying and you know media and stuff like
that and then you know since I’m working
with the authors I’m learning how books
get made so all the the things are sort
of this series of like concentric
circles that that sort of all add to
each other so for me it’s it’s it’s not
like I did one thing and I dedicated
myself totally to that and then I did
another thing that I did another thing
it was like all sort of simultaneous
there was one period where I was I was
very I had basically like three
full-time jobs which was not exactly a
fun experience but it was it sort of
compressed of a period of learning which
that would have normally taken like
years into like one or two years where I
just learned so much that then I could
you know experiment and do things when I
took some of that stuff off my plate
what’s the single worst marketing
decision that you can make and I think
we’ve all been there it’s that you start
with a crappy product but as marketers
this is what we do day in and day out
our job starts when the product is
finished but a growth actor says why why
can’t the product be improved why does
it have to start why does it have to
start so late in the process why are we
getting handed this final product when
market feedback would would incorporate
into the product product the elements
that make it successful and so when
marketers stop thinking of their job as
to simply
work on what’s already been done but to
answer these questions who is the
product for why would they use it why do
I use it
marketing is baked into the product so I
love this quote from Paul Graham the
founder of Y Combinator he says make
stuff people want that’s the best
marketing decision that you can make and
I think if you look at a company like
Instagram you see this very clearly
right Instagram launched as a Foursquare
competitor called bourbon it was a
geolocation service and it had a feature
that allowed people to upload photos and
put filters on them it got a little bit
of traction but nothing nothing truly
profound and so they decide they’re
going to zoom in on this single feature
they’re going to they’re going to throw
everything that they’ve done out so far
and they’re they’re going to rebrand his
Instagram it launches I think there’s
something like 25,000 downloads its
first its first day and it sells to
Facebook a year later for a billion
dollars
so you could argue that the best
marketing decision that Instagram made
was changing from bourbon to Instagram
everything else was extra everything
else was window dressing the more the
product was the marketing I think the
big thing is you don’t leave until you
spotted the landing right and so I think
what people are like I hate what I’m
doing so I’m going to stop doing it and
then they think they’re what they love
doing is magically gonna fall in their
lap and it doesn’t work that way it’s
like their again you know Mark
Zuckerberg didn’t start Facebook after
he dropped out he started a side project
in college they built it into something
that it was then realistic and
reasonable to transfer his energies from
traditional things to the untraditional
thing and so you know I started reaching
out to authors that I wanted to meet and
you know learn from while I was in
college I didn’t quit college was I
hated it and then go do this thing so I
think that’s that’s a very important
thing that people have to realize it’s
not it will magically get the life that
you want it’s a series of steps and take
the smallest possible step you can and
then you take another one and another
one another one and then all of a sudden
you start to get there starts to be
just some momentum but the next step is
clear you know I would have had note
when I was dropping out I had no idea
that it would lead to where I am now
it’s a series of individual decisions
but I knew that it was probably going in
the direction that I wanted to go so I’m
more a proponent of like having the
direction that you want ahead and rather
than like going like you know by 28
years old I’m going to be the first
woman to land on the moon you know like
that is very certain and it in some ways
probably limits you from other awesome
stuff that might have come up along the
way on my biography on the back of the
book it’s just like Ryan apprenticed
under Auto Creed that’s a word that you
make up for what happened after it
happened you know what I mean like it’s
not like I met him at this lunch and he
said like and then he you know he in
some ceremony like inducted me into
being his apprenticeship like what his
apprentice like we’re like Masons or
something you know it was hey I’m gonna
give you a shot on this thing because I
need some help with something because I
don’t want to transcribe all these
really long interviews fine whatever you
you’re willing to pay me to do it I will
do it and I’m going to deliver something
that you’re going to be happy with and
then if you have and then I’m going to
ask you for feedback I’m going to ask
how I can improve then I’m going to ask
for another shot and I’m going to get
better that time and I’m just going to
slowly build momentum and Trust with you
and that’s what I did it you know there
was there was no informal arrangement or
there’s no formal arrangement sometimes
we would go weeks or months without
talking because he was busy and I
understood that my job was to contribute
and not be a burden or a thing that he
would have to feel obligated to you know
monitor or whatever and when he didn’t
give me something to do I would try to
think like is there something that I can
do that he hasn’t asked me to do and how
can I make that contribution and how can
i how can I have me working for him be
as painless for him as possible the
second thing that I you know I find when
I hire a lot of young people that I
think I was able to differentiate myself
with is I wanted it really bad and he
knew that anytime
he knew that like I always wanted more
and he never had to chase me like he
never had to call me twice or email me
and say like you know Ryan I emailed you
three days ago
I haven’t even gotten back to me because
like she gave me a week deadline it was
done in three days
you know or if he called me I called him
right back if he asked me to read a book
I read it and I didn’t give him excuses
for why right you know like I find with
so many young people it’s like I want
them to be successful or I want them to
work well for me like more than they
want it for themselves
in late 2012 I worked on a book launch
for Tim Ferriss he wrote a book called
the 4-hour chef it was his third book it
was published by Amazon and because it
was published by Amazon we found out at
the very last minute about six weeks
before launch that it was going to be
banned by every major book store in the
United States um and this is pretty much
the worst thing that can happen to you
if you were doing a traditional book
launch because that’s where books are
sold so how do we hit the New York Times
bestseller list how do we move copies if
all the traditional marketing stuff is
out the window that that leaves growth
hacking right how do we do this how do
we treat this book like a startup that
we’re creating from nothing one of the
first things we did was a was a
BitTorrent giveaway where we gave away
something like 250 pages of the book
videos photos all sorts of extra stuff
ended up getting downloaded I think
about three million times that drove two
hundred and fifty thousand people to the
Amazon page it was the single most
effective thing I’ve worked on close to
a dozen bestsellers it was the single
most effective thing that I’ve ever seen
in the history of book marketing and it
came from giving a sizable portion of
the book away um and and so it was it
was this proof for me that the
traditional marketing the the
untrackable the untested things aren’t
working anymore and that we want to
experiment we want to try new things
what Seneca is saying is he’s not and
all the stoves they’re not saying like
you can’t be wealthy you can’t be
successful you can’t go out and do
things what they’re saying is that you
can’t you can’t be dependent on these
things like he’s saying like wealth is
nice if you have it but if you may
your personal happiness depended on
having this money that’s bad because
it’s not in your control right the
economy could melt down at any moment or
your house could burn down or you could
lose your job and if you have equated
wealth with personal happiness now your
personal happiness is outside of your
control and so stoicism is about control
in that sense how do you how do you make
the distinction between externals and
internals and focus most of your energy
on internals having externals is nice
but sort of what what they would say is
that understand that they are yours in
trust which means that they could leave
you at any moment
and a lot of the stoic exercises are
sort of about practicing not having
those things so Seneca was famous he one
day a month he would practice being poor
so you’d wear like crappy clothes and he
would like not eat at his house and he
would sleep outside and he would just I
mean it’s even more now like a metaphor
than anything else but the idea is like
we’re so afraid of these things so we
don’t think about them and therefore
we’re not prepared for them and then it
makes them much scarier and we dread
them that much more even though if you
looked at it really objectively it’s
really not that bad
Tyler Cowen has this new book out he’s
talking about averages over and he’s
talking about how strange it is that we
what it says about our economy that
there’s there’s so many jobs now that
companies wouldn’t even have someone do
for free because like even just training
them or bring them into the system is
expensive you know and so for me it’s
like I have to decide it’s like what do
I want to do this myself or do I want to
take like months out of art like do I
want to undergo the whole training you
know bring someone up to speed process
with someone who might I don’t have to
fire right you know because they can’t
cut it that’s partially your fault
because you will mantas eyes the vision
of being an intern for various writers
in the world yeah so you probably get
some of the worst candidates you
probably get the candidates that
they want to miss totally I get I get
lots of really nice kids lots of ones
that I refer to other people and then I
also get all the crazy ones who are like
I’m just like you man like I’m I’m
destined for greatness I’m doing it’s
like honestly if I ever caught like the
18 year old version of myself saying I
was like destined for greatness or some
ridiculous thing like that
I would beat the out of them
because like I that’s that that sort of
lack of humility and now like ego and
just delusion is precisely what makes it
really hard to work for SiC like I’ve
worked not just for rubber but I’ve you
know sort of mentored and a lot of
successful people the single worst trait
you can have is be a crazy person
because they don’t they do not have time
for that and it’s like like what I say
I’ve written this whole time so I keep
the crazy at home like be crazy your
parents be crazy your girlfriend be
crazy and private but like if you’re
going to if you’re going to be like that
you are going to blow everything up my
reality gets it gets a bad rap because
we’ve all been in those meetings where
someone says hey can you make this video
go viral for me or how do we make this
product go viral but of course it’s
never going to go viral because it sucks
but it’s also never going to go viral
because there’s not a reason to there
it’s not built into the product so when
I think about virality I think about
people who build shareability and
publicness into their product so I think
about Apple and Blackberry
adding these the sent from my iphone or
sent from my blackberry to the bottom of
each one of their emails or Groupon and
LivingSocial x’ refer-a-friend program
which paid users to bring in new users
and look virality isn’t luck it’s not
magic it’s definitely not random either
there’s a science behind why people talk
about things and you have to build those
into the product Dropbox is another
amazing example it’s a it’s get free
stuff or get free space program at one
point was driving 33% of their user
signups because they paid users and free
storage which cost them next to nothing
to refer their friends
and this is the goal of every growth
actor right to build a self-perpetuating
marketing machine so you you create an
amazing product you bring in users and
then those users bring in more users
what is like the number one thing to
take from the ego is the enemy and a
piece advice you would give to you know
a young Ryan holiday we use now 19 20
years old that’s watching this right now
yeah so I mean one of my favorite
sections of the book is this idea that
you can never stop being a student
because students are humble because they
understand that there’s someone above
them who can teach them so if you never
stop being the student there’s a quote
from Epictetus where he says one cannot
learn that which they think they already
know right and so if you think you
already know everything you’ve stopped
being the student and you’re not going
to learn anymore and in some ways it’s
over for you I was forced to look at the
world the way he looks at the world like
how I research books I learned from
Roberts system because as his research
assistant he wasn’t like oh go make up
your own system he’s like this is how I
do it you need to do it this way so you
can be of service to me and so you’re
sort of learning how to do that thing
rather than like you know sitting down
and reading a book about it or trying to
learn a song by ear it’s like know
somebody showed you how to do each step
this is been a super cool experience
I’ve never done a top ten on anybody
where the guys actually introducing
himself so Ryan thank you for that I’m
wondering if you can share a bonus 11th
tip with us nobody’s got 11 tips you’re
the first what yeah so okay so one of
the things I talk about in in ego as the
enemy is this idea of adopting this
student mindset and this is something
you see not only with people who are
aspiring to do something but who have
already accomplished something because
being a student is inherently humbling
you’re you’re deciding I don’t know and
I’m never going to know everything and
so I’m always going to think as though
there’s more to learn than I already
know there’s a great quote from
epictetus he says one cannot learn that
which they think they already know and
so deciding hey I don’t know is is a is
a way to combat your ego and by finding
people who are smarter than you
surrounding yourself with people who are
smarter than you
tackling topics that make you
uncomfortable or scare you this is a way
to keep you from ever getting too big of
a head it’s a way to prevent you from
ever thinking like okay I’ve arrived
I’ve made it there’s another quote it’s
from a physicist I’m forgetting his name
but he says as our island of knowledge
grows our circle of ignorance grows with
it and the idea is that the more you
know the more you bump into stuff you
don’t know and you want to I think if
you continue on that path both when
you’re aspiring to be successful it’s
what helps you you know absorb as much
knowledge as quickly as possible
you know attract mentors and masters who
are showing you the way but then once
you once you’ve arrived right or you’ve
made it in some way if you stay a
student you’re never going to be that
successful person who thinks they know
everything and dives into some project
they’re not prepared for or tackle
something that’s outside their strengths
I think you’ve got to keep that
beginners mindset even when you’re not a
beginner anymore
for people who haven’t read the book
yeah why is it important to combat your
ego sure I would say ego is the enemy of
a sense of realism or objectivity about
who you are and what you’re doing so
when you’re young ego is problematic
right because it’s preventing you from
learning from getting feedback when
you’re successful ego is a problematic
because it’s telling you you know it
makes you complacent or it makes you
entitled or it makes you selfish or
self-absorbed so really whether you’re
aspiring to success ego is the big o is
what prevents you from achieving that
success when you are successful ego in
dangers your success because it makes it
so fragile and precarious like we’ve
seen like how many successful people
implode and ruin everything that they
have because you know they overreached
or they made an enemy out of someone or
they you know they over invested in
something we see that over and over
again so ego is what prevents us from
that sort of sense of realism that I
think you need to do great work would
you have advice for Donald Trump right
now people say he’s a egomaniac oh he’s
of course he’s an egomaniac and you know
I think it’s interesting with Donald
Trump it’s like on the one hand ego
might be helpful when you’re the least
qualified person
to ever run for the presidency of
America it’s what tells you like oh yeah
I should totally do this but I think it
doesn’t take a smart person to see like
he would make that ego would be his
worst enemy if he was actually president
right because he can’t collaborate with
other people he can’t understand what
other people’s feelings are he lacks
this sort of empathy and he would never
there was an interview yesterday where
someone was was saying like what’s your
foreign policy experience and he
seriously said well I hosted the Miss
Universe contest in Russia three years
ago so like he thinks that he
understands the complicated geopolitics
between Russia and America because he
hosted a beauty pageant in Russia a few
years ago like that’s insane and so that
goes back to that epictetus quote this
idea of like you can’t learn something
if you’re convinced that you already
know it and so he’s he’s not going to be
good in those situations because his ego
has already told him you know he’s heard
everything he needs to hear and for
people who don’t know who is epithets
Epictetus is a stoic philosopher he’s
this fascinating figure he was a former
slave he’s granted freedom and then he
adopts this stoic philosophy he becomes
the most power one of the most important
and influential philosophical teachers
in all of Rome one of his most famous
practitioners are not direct students
but came into Epictetus his work was
Marcus Aurelius who becomes the emperor
of Rome so you have this this slave who
adopts a philosophy and he ends up
influencing the most powerful man in the
world in that time so I found that very
fascinating and if you had to summarize
what still philosophy was the people who
like this yeah the first time they’ve
heard sure so stoic philosophy is is not
what youth like when you hear me say
philosophy you’re like oh that sounds
really boring stoicism is practical
philosophy it’s designed what the Stokes
call it’s to help you with the art of
living but if I if I had to sum it up in
sort of one sentence I would say the
Stoics believe we don’t control the
world around us we control how we
respond to the world around us so
they’re always thinking okay I don’t
control what other people think or I
don’t control my boss does but I control
my reaction to that thing I don’t
control what the weather is but I
control how I’m going to make use of my
day despite the weather and
I think as an entrepreneur that’s how
you have to wake up and see the world
you don’t have time to complain about
whether something’s fair unfair or
whether somebody screwed you over or
whether this is really hard or stressful
you just you have payroll to meet and
you have a job to do and that’s all that
you can focus on is is your reaction
because that’s the one thing that’s
always in your control cool
and then maybe last one you’re talking
about you have to be a student you got
to always be learning so what are you
what are you learning right now what’s
Ryan holiday working on is student of
yeah so so I’m like as a whatever you’re
doing there’s always someone better than
you at that fame and I think you want to
you want to be thinking okay what are
they doing differently that I’m not
doing what had they mastered so as a
writer I’m thinking okay I’ve gotten
good at this style of writing what is
another style of writing what is who’s a
master that I look up to that’s doing
great and that’s how I started my career
I was an apprentice to Robert Greene who
was my favorite writer in the entire
world and I wanted to I was literally
his student like I would go to his house
and ask him a million questions and now
I don’t do that as much but I you know I
had dinner last night with a writer I
look up to his name’s AJ Jacobs
and so I’m thinking like I’m trying to
ask him as many questions as I can and
learn from him and and you’re trying to
there’s always there’s that Jim Rome
quote about like you’re the product of
the people you spent the five people you
spend the most time with I think that’s
true with your education it’s like what
influences are you surrounding yourself
with are they better than you or they
push any better or is your ego so
insecure that you only want to be around
equals or lessers that’s not a recipe
for improving right so you’re still
studying to try to be a better author
better marketer yeah totally I mean
every day I’m waking up and and like you
can’t be satisfied you can be proud of
what you’ve done but you can’t say
that’s as good as I can do because you
can always do better I think
thank you guys so much for watching yeah
thanks for having me thanks to Garrett
d2 for suggesting me for this and I
thought I would suggest three people I’d
like to see do top ten rules I like I’m
Robert Greene
James all teacher and Maria Popova who
does brain pickings calm cool thank you
guys I’d also love to know which of
Rhines top eleven rules you like the
most
leave it in the comments below I want to
join a discussion so thank you so much
for watching continue to believe and
we’ll see you soon
I think exercise is very important to
the creative process I try to either run
I run or swim almost run swim or I do
CrossFit
every day and that’s like that’s very
important i I tend to have like creative
breakthroughs when I’ve stopped working
on something and I went to do something
else which school year showing me the
gym earlier I think that’s probably why
that’s there it’s like you can work and
work and work on a problem then you stop
and then when you’re thinking about
something else that sort of magically
comes together in your mind so I think
that’s important books obviously are
very important I read a lot I try to
read like two or three books a week and
I for me what I make I realized very
early on and it’s a little bit clearer
for me because I work in book publishing
and I’m a writer but like I consider
reading to be like part of my job so
like that was actually somewhat weird
when I was working full-time at American
Apparel it’s like I would want to sit
there and like read a book but you know
I can’t do that at an office you know
but so now I work from home so I can
sort of do I can arrange my day in a way
that like appearances matter a little
bit less but I think you know reading
but what I what I say is like okay look
chances are whatever problem you’re
going through right now someone else
went through before you and they
probably wrote it down and so like books
are the way that we we access that
knowledge and if you’re not availing
yourself to it you’re going to learn a
lot of things the hard way when you
don’t necessarily need to so I consider
like weeding to be like part of my job
and part of what’s accelerated what I’ve
been able to accomplish and I so it’s
like when people are like oh how do you
have time how do you have so much time
to read it’s like well how do you have
time to sleep an atty of time to eat and
go to work like that’s just what you do
it’s not like this extra luxury that I
squeeze in when I’m on vacation got it
that was going to be one of my questions
how’d you get that yeah under read so
there’s no secret and like I don’t read
fast like I think a lot of people think
that people who read a lot must be like
speed readers and so they focus on that
it’s like no people realize just spend a
lot of time reading
because it’s important to them and
that’s sort of the distinction that I
made I think we tend to I saw this I
call this blockbuster syndrome we want
every launch to be enormous we want to
concentrate it all in a very small
period and we want to bring in millions
and millions of users we want to be a
trending topic on Twitter we want
millions of video views we want to be in
the front page of newspapers but is this
really what we need um or is it better
to find the right early adopters cheaply
and quickly and so when you look at a
company like uber which launched first
not worldwide but in a select number of
cities and they targeted very early on
specific users typically tech mail users
in cities like San Francisco and New
York um and when they said okay how are
we going to grow this product they
latched on South by Southwest is a place
to launch because their target customers
from all over the world would be in one
city for one week during the year and
they gave away millions of dollars worth
of uber rides they forced people through
the through the product they taught them
how to use it and then they took that
knowledge back to the cities that they
are from Airbnb is another amazing
example they said okay we’re a tiny
startup we’re trying to get people to
get comfortable using to get using it
where do we find our customers so they
create a workaround that allowed people
to cross post there very early Airbnb
listings onto Craigslist so here they
are using the dominant platform for
apartments to grow to grow their brand
and so I like this idea of of hacking
the system and there’s this quote from
Neha Baldwin the founder of graphicly
saying because we don’t have the budgets
because we don’t have the huge marketing
departments we have to look for the
tricks and the shortcuts how do we bring
people through the system force them to
use it get them acclimated to doing so
you’re successful at it does not mean
you have to continue doing it if you do
two things it’s hard to be good at those
two things but if you do like a bunch of
things that are all somewhat related
they kind of like fuel into each other
what’s the single worst marketing
decision that you can make and I think
we’ve all been there
it’s that you start with a crappy
product I think the big thing is you
don’t leave until you spotted the
landing I find us so many young people
it’s like I want them to be successful
or I want them to work well for me like
more than they want it for themselves
I’ve worked on close to a dozen
bestsellers it was the single most
effective thing that I’ve ever seen in
the history of book marketing wealth is
nice if you have it but if you make your
personal happiness dependent on having
this money that’s bad honestly if I ever
caught like the 18 year old version of
myself saying I was like destined for
greatness or some ridiculous thing like
that I would be two of them or how do we
make this product Oh viral but of course
it’s never going to go viral because it
sucks if you think you already know
everything you’ve stopped being a
student and you’re not going to learn
anymore
I’m an American author marketer and
entrepreneur I’m a media strategist
behind best-selling authors like Tony
Robbins and Robert Greene I’ve worked
with big brands like Google complex and
taser I’m the former marketing director
for American Apparel and I’m going to
editor-at-large the New York Observer
i’m ryan holiday and here are my top ten
rules for success just because you’re
doing something and you’re successful at
it does not mean you have to continue
doing it and in some ways your
willingness to take big risks
tip lines where your life is going like
click right now you know I got a great
house I got this cool stuff like am I
willing if the right opportunity comes
up am I willing to leverage all that to
bet again that that your your
willingness to take those risks
especially when you’re young is the
difference between like I think an
average life and an extraordinary life
what I found that I have this weird
thing where I think like if you do one
thing you can be like really good at
that one thing if you do two things it’s
hard to be good at those two things but
if you do like a bunch of things that
are all somewhat related they’re kind of
like fuel into each other so it’s like
I was working for these authors and I
was learning how blogging works which
turned around and became very relevant
at American Apparel but there I’m
learning other things about like ad
buying and you know media and stuff like
that and then you know since I’m working
with the authors I’m learning how books
get made so all the the things are sort
of this series of like concentric
circles that that sort of all add to
each other so for me it’s it’s it’s not
like I did one thing and I dedicated
myself totally to that and then I did
another thing that I did another thing
it was like all sort of simultaneous
there was one period where I was I was
very I had basically like three
full-time jobs which was not exactly a
fun experience but it was it sort of
compressed of a period of learning which
that would have normally taken like
years into like one or two years where I
just learned so much that then I could
you know experiment and do things when I
took some of that stuff off my plate
what’s the single worst marketing
decision that you can make and I think
we’ve all been there it’s that you start
with a crappy product but as marketers
this is what we do day in and day out
our job starts when the product is
finished but a growth actor says why why
can’t the product be improved why does
it have to start why does it have to
start so late in the process why are we
getting handed this final product when
market feedback would would incorporate
into the product product the elements
that make it successful and so when
marketers stop thinking of their job as
to simply
work on what’s already been done but to
answer these questions who is the
product for why would they use it why do
I use it
marketing is baked into the product so I
love this quote from Paul Graham the
founder of Y Combinator he says make
stuff people want that’s the best
marketing decision that you can make and
I think if you look at a company like
Instagram you see this very clearly
right Instagram launched as a Foursquare
competitor called bourbon it was a
geolocation service and it had a feature
that allowed people to upload photos and
put filters on them it got a little bit
of traction but nothing nothing truly
profound and so they decide they’re
going to zoom in on this single feature
they’re going to they’re going to throw
everything that they’ve done out so far
and they’re they’re going to rebrand his
Instagram it launches I think there’s
something like 25,000 downloads its
first its first day and it sells to
Facebook a year later for a billion
dollars
so you could argue that the best
marketing decision that Instagram made
was changing from bourbon to Instagram
everything else was extra everything
else was window dressing the more the
product was the marketing I think the
big thing is you don’t leave until you
spotted the landing right and so I think
what people are like I hate what I’m
doing so I’m going to stop doing it and
then they think they’re what they love
doing is magically gonna fall in their
lap and it doesn’t work that way it’s
like their again you know Mark
Zuckerberg didn’t start Facebook after
he dropped out he started a side project
in college they built it into something
that it was then realistic and
reasonable to transfer his energies from
traditional things to the untraditional
thing and so you know I started reaching
out to authors that I wanted to meet and
you know learn from while I was in
college I didn’t quit college was I
hated it and then go do this thing so I
think that’s that’s a very important
thing that people have to realize it’s
not it will magically get the life that
you want it’s a series of steps and take
the smallest possible step you can and
then you take another one and another
one another one and then all of a sudden
you start to get there starts to be
just some momentum but the next step is
clear you know I would have had note
when I was dropping out I had no idea
that it would lead to where I am now
it’s a series of individual decisions
but I knew that it was probably going in
the direction that I wanted to go so I’m
more a proponent of like having the
direction that you want ahead and rather
than like going like you know by 28
years old I’m going to be the first
woman to land on the moon you know like
that is very certain and it in some ways
probably limits you from other awesome
stuff that might have come up along the
way on my biography on the back of the
book it’s just like Ryan apprenticed
under Auto Creed that’s a word that you
make up for what happened after it
happened you know what I mean like it’s
not like I met him at this lunch and he
said like and then he you know he in
some ceremony like inducted me into
being his apprenticeship like what his
apprentice like we’re like Masons or
something you know it was hey I’m gonna
give you a shot on this thing because I
need some help with something because I
don’t want to transcribe all these
really long interviews fine whatever you
you’re willing to pay me to do it I will
do it and I’m going to deliver something
that you’re going to be happy with and
then if you have and then I’m going to
ask you for feedback I’m going to ask
how I can improve then I’m going to ask
for another shot and I’m going to get
better that time and I’m just going to
slowly build momentum and Trust with you
and that’s what I did it you know there
was there was no informal arrangement or
there’s no formal arrangement sometimes
we would go weeks or months without
talking because he was busy and I
understood that my job was to contribute
and not be a burden or a thing that he
would have to feel obligated to you know
monitor or whatever and when he didn’t
give me something to do I would try to
think like is there something that I can
do that he hasn’t asked me to do and how
can I make that contribution and how can
i how can I have me working for him be
as painless for him as possible the
second thing that I you know I find when
I hire a lot of young people that I
think I was able to differentiate myself
with is I wanted it really bad and he
knew that anytime
he knew that like I always wanted more
and he never had to chase me like he
never had to call me twice or email me
and say like you know Ryan I emailed you
three days ago
I haven’t even gotten back to me because
like she gave me a week deadline it was
done in three days
you know or if he called me I called him
right back if he asked me to read a book
I read it and I didn’t give him excuses
for why right you know like I find with
so many young people it’s like I want
them to be successful or I want them to
work well for me like more than they
want it for themselves
in late 2012 I worked on a book launch
for Tim Ferriss he wrote a book called
the 4-hour chef it was his third book it
was published by Amazon and because it
was published by Amazon we found out at
the very last minute about six weeks
before launch that it was going to be
banned by every major book store in the
United States um and this is pretty much
the worst thing that can happen to you
if you were doing a traditional book
launch because that’s where books are
sold so how do we hit the New York Times
bestseller list how do we move copies if
all the traditional marketing stuff is
out the window that that leaves growth
hacking right how do we do this how do
we treat this book like a startup that
we’re creating from nothing one of the
first things we did was a was a
BitTorrent giveaway where we gave away
something like 250 pages of the book
videos photos all sorts of extra stuff
ended up getting downloaded I think
about three million times that drove two
hundred and fifty thousand people to the
Amazon page it was the single most
effective thing I’ve worked on close to
a dozen bestsellers it was the single
most effective thing that I’ve ever seen
in the history of book marketing and it
came from giving a sizable portion of
the book away um and and so it was it
was this proof for me that the
traditional marketing the the
untrackable the untested things aren’t
working anymore and that we want to
experiment we want to try new things
what Seneca is saying is he’s not and
all the stoves they’re not saying like
you can’t be wealthy you can’t be
successful you can’t go out and do
things what they’re saying is that you
can’t you can’t be dependent on these
things like he’s saying like wealth is
nice if you have it but if you may
your personal happiness depended on
having this money that’s bad because
it’s not in your control right the
economy could melt down at any moment or
your house could burn down or you could
lose your job and if you have equated
wealth with personal happiness now your
personal happiness is outside of your
control and so stoicism is about control
in that sense how do you how do you make
the distinction between externals and
internals and focus most of your energy
on internals having externals is nice
but sort of what what they would say is
that understand that they are yours in
trust which means that they could leave
you at any moment
and a lot of the stoic exercises are
sort of about practicing not having
those things so Seneca was famous he one
day a month he would practice being poor
so you’d wear like crappy clothes and he
would like not eat at his house and he
would sleep outside and he would just I
mean it’s even more now like a metaphor
than anything else but the idea is like
we’re so afraid of these things so we
don’t think about them and therefore
we’re not prepared for them and then it
makes them much scarier and we dread
them that much more even though if you
looked at it really objectively it’s
really not that bad
Tyler Cowen has this new book out he’s
talking about averages over and he’s
talking about how strange it is that we
what it says about our economy that
there’s there’s so many jobs now that
companies wouldn’t even have someone do
for free because like even just training
them or bring them into the system is
expensive you know and so for me it’s
like I have to decide it’s like what do
I want to do this myself or do I want to
take like months out of art like do I
want to undergo the whole training you
know bring someone up to speed process
with someone who might I don’t have to
fire right you know because they can’t
cut it that’s partially your fault
because you will mantas eyes the vision
of being an intern for various writers
in the world yeah so you probably get
some of the worst candidates you
probably get the candidates that
they want to miss totally I get I get
lots of really nice kids lots of ones
that I refer to other people and then I
also get all the crazy ones who are like
I’m just like you man like I’m I’m
destined for greatness I’m doing it’s
like honestly if I ever caught like the
18 year old version of myself saying I
was like destined for greatness or some
ridiculous thing like that
I would beat the out of them
because like I that’s that that sort of
lack of humility and now like ego and
just delusion is precisely what makes it
really hard to work for SiC like I’ve
worked not just for rubber but I’ve you
know sort of mentored and a lot of
successful people the single worst trait
you can have is be a crazy person
because they don’t they do not have time
for that and it’s like like what I say
I’ve written this whole time so I keep
the crazy at home like be crazy your
parents be crazy your girlfriend be
crazy and private but like if you’re
going to if you’re going to be like that
you are going to blow everything up my
reality gets it gets a bad rap because
we’ve all been in those meetings where
someone says hey can you make this video
go viral for me or how do we make this
product go viral but of course it’s
never going to go viral because it sucks
but it’s also never going to go viral
because there’s not a reason to there
it’s not built into the product so when
I think about virality I think about
people who build shareability and
publicness into their product so I think
about Apple and Blackberry
adding these the sent from my iphone or
sent from my blackberry to the bottom of
each one of their emails or Groupon and
LivingSocial x’ refer-a-friend program
which paid users to bring in new users
and look virality isn’t luck it’s not
magic it’s definitely not random either
there’s a science behind why people talk
about things and you have to build those
into the product Dropbox is another
amazing example it’s a it’s get free
stuff or get free space program at one
point was driving 33% of their user
signups because they paid users and free
storage which cost them next to nothing
to refer their friends
and this is the goal of every growth
actor right to build a self-perpetuating
marketing machine so you you create an
amazing product you bring in users and
then those users bring in more users
what is like the number one thing to
take from the ego is the enemy and a
piece advice you would give to you know
a young Ryan holiday we use now 19 20
years old that’s watching this right now
yeah so I mean one of my favorite
sections of the book is this idea that
you can never stop being a student
because students are humble because they
understand that there’s someone above
them who can teach them so if you never
stop being the student there’s a quote
from Epictetus where he says one cannot
learn that which they think they already
know right and so if you think you
already know everything you’ve stopped
being the student and you’re not going
to learn anymore and in some ways it’s
over for you I was forced to look at the
world the way he looks at the world like
how I research books I learned from
Roberts system because as his research
assistant he wasn’t like oh go make up
your own system he’s like this is how I
do it you need to do it this way so you
can be of service to me and so you’re
sort of learning how to do that thing
rather than like you know sitting down
and reading a book about it or trying to
learn a song by ear it’s like know
somebody showed you how to do each step
this is been a super cool experience
I’ve never done a top ten on anybody
where the guys actually introducing
himself so Ryan thank you for that I’m
wondering if you can share a bonus 11th
tip with us nobody’s got 11 tips you’re
the first what yeah so okay so one of
the things I talk about in in ego as the
enemy is this idea of adopting this
student mindset and this is something
you see not only with people who are
aspiring to do something but who have
already accomplished something because
being a student is inherently humbling
you’re you’re deciding I don’t know and
I’m never going to know everything and
so I’m always going to think as though
there’s more to learn than I already
know there’s a great quote from
epictetus he says one cannot learn that
which they think they already know and
so deciding hey I don’t know is is a is
a way to combat your ego and by finding
people who are smarter than you
surrounding yourself with people who are
smarter than you
tackling topics that make you
uncomfortable or scare you this is a way
to keep you from ever getting too big of
a head it’s a way to prevent you from
ever thinking like okay I’ve arrived
I’ve made it there’s another quote it’s
from a physicist I’m forgetting his name
but he says as our island of knowledge
grows our circle of ignorance grows with
it and the idea is that the more you
know the more you bump into stuff you
don’t know and you want to I think if
you continue on that path both when
you’re aspiring to be successful it’s
what helps you you know absorb as much
knowledge as quickly as possible
you know attract mentors and masters who
are showing you the way but then once
you once you’ve arrived right or you’ve
made it in some way if you stay a
student you’re never going to be that
successful person who thinks they know
everything and dives into some project
they’re not prepared for or tackle
something that’s outside their strengths
I think you’ve got to keep that
beginners mindset even when you’re not a
beginner anymore
for people who haven’t read the book
yeah why is it important to combat your
ego sure I would say ego is the enemy of
a sense of realism or objectivity about
who you are and what you’re doing so
when you’re young ego is problematic
right because it’s preventing you from
learning from getting feedback when
you’re successful ego is a problematic
because it’s telling you you know it
makes you complacent or it makes you
entitled or it makes you selfish or
self-absorbed so really whether you’re
aspiring to success ego is the big o is
what prevents you from achieving that
success when you are successful ego in
dangers your success because it makes it
so fragile and precarious like we’ve
seen like how many successful people
implode and ruin everything that they
have because you know they overreached
or they made an enemy out of someone or
they you know they over invested in
something we see that over and over
again so ego is what prevents us from
that sort of sense of realism that I
think you need to do great work would
you have advice for Donald Trump right
now people say he’s a egomaniac oh he’s
of course he’s an egomaniac and you know
I think it’s interesting with Donald
Trump it’s like on the one hand ego
might be helpful when you’re the least
qualified person
to ever run for the presidency of
America it’s what tells you like oh yeah
I should totally do this but I think it
doesn’t take a smart person to see like
he would make that ego would be his
worst enemy if he was actually president
right because he can’t collaborate with
other people he can’t understand what
other people’s feelings are he lacks
this sort of empathy and he would never
there was an interview yesterday where
someone was was saying like what’s your
foreign policy experience and he
seriously said well I hosted the Miss
Universe contest in Russia three years
ago so like he thinks that he
understands the complicated geopolitics
between Russia and America because he
hosted a beauty pageant in Russia a few
years ago like that’s insane and so that
goes back to that epictetus quote this
idea of like you can’t learn something
if you’re convinced that you already
know it and so he’s he’s not going to be
good in those situations because his ego
has already told him you know he’s heard
everything he needs to hear and for
people who don’t know who is epithets
Epictetus is a stoic philosopher he’s
this fascinating figure he was a former
slave he’s granted freedom and then he
adopts this stoic philosophy he becomes
the most power one of the most important
and influential philosophical teachers
in all of Rome one of his most famous
practitioners are not direct students
but came into Epictetus his work was
Marcus Aurelius who becomes the emperor
of Rome so you have this this slave who
adopts a philosophy and he ends up
influencing the most powerful man in the
world in that time so I found that very
fascinating and if you had to summarize
what still philosophy was the people who
like this yeah the first time they’ve
heard sure so stoic philosophy is is not
what youth like when you hear me say
philosophy you’re like oh that sounds
really boring stoicism is practical
philosophy it’s designed what the Stokes
call it’s to help you with the art of
living but if I if I had to sum it up in
sort of one sentence I would say the
Stoics believe we don’t control the
world around us we control how we
respond to the world around us so
they’re always thinking okay I don’t
control what other people think or I
don’t control my boss does but I control
my reaction to that thing I don’t
control what the weather is but I
control how I’m going to make use of my
day despite the weather and
I think as an entrepreneur that’s how
you have to wake up and see the world
you don’t have time to complain about
whether something’s fair unfair or
whether somebody screwed you over or
whether this is really hard or stressful
you just you have payroll to meet and
you have a job to do and that’s all that
you can focus on is is your reaction
because that’s the one thing that’s
always in your control cool
and then maybe last one you’re talking
about you have to be a student you got
to always be learning so what are you
what are you learning right now what’s
Ryan holiday working on is student of
yeah so so I’m like as a whatever you’re
doing there’s always someone better than
you at that fame and I think you want to
you want to be thinking okay what are
they doing differently that I’m not
doing what had they mastered so as a
writer I’m thinking okay I’ve gotten
good at this style of writing what is
another style of writing what is who’s a
master that I look up to that’s doing
great and that’s how I started my career
I was an apprentice to Robert Greene who
was my favorite writer in the entire
world and I wanted to I was literally
his student like I would go to his house
and ask him a million questions and now
I don’t do that as much but I you know I
had dinner last night with a writer I
look up to his name’s AJ Jacobs
and so I’m thinking like I’m trying to
ask him as many questions as I can and
learn from him and and you’re trying to
there’s always there’s that Jim Rome
quote about like you’re the product of
the people you spent the five people you
spend the most time with I think that’s
true with your education it’s like what
influences are you surrounding yourself
with are they better than you or they
push any better or is your ego so
insecure that you only want to be around
equals or lessers that’s not a recipe
for improving right so you’re still
studying to try to be a better author
better marketer yeah totally I mean
every day I’m waking up and and like you
can’t be satisfied you can be proud of
what you’ve done but you can’t say
that’s as good as I can do because you
can always do better I think
thank you guys so much for watching yeah
thanks for having me thanks to Garrett
d2 for suggesting me for this and I
thought I would suggest three people I’d
like to see do top ten rules I like I’m
Robert Greene
James all teacher and Maria Popova who
does brain pickings calm cool thank you
guys I’d also love to know which of
Rhines top eleven rules you like the
most
leave it in the comments below I want to
join a discussion so thank you so much
for watching continue to believe and
we’ll see you soon
I think exercise is very important to
the creative process I try to either run
I run or swim almost run swim or I do
CrossFit
every day and that’s like that’s very
important i I tend to have like creative
breakthroughs when I’ve stopped working
on something and I went to do something
else which school year showing me the
gym earlier I think that’s probably why
that’s there it’s like you can work and
work and work on a problem then you stop
and then when you’re thinking about
something else that sort of magically
comes together in your mind so I think
that’s important books obviously are
very important I read a lot I try to
read like two or three books a week and
I for me what I make I realized very
early on and it’s a little bit clearer
for me because I work in book publishing
and I’m a writer but like I consider
reading to be like part of my job so
like that was actually somewhat weird
when I was working full-time at American
Apparel it’s like I would want to sit
there and like read a book but you know
I can’t do that at an office you know
but so now I work from home so I can
sort of do I can arrange my day in a way
that like appearances matter a little
bit less but I think you know reading
but what I what I say is like okay look
chances are whatever problem you’re
going through right now someone else
went through before you and they
probably wrote it down and so like books
are the way that we we access that
knowledge and if you’re not availing
yourself to it you’re going to learn a
lot of things the hard way when you
don’t necessarily need to so I consider
like weeding to be like part of my job
and part of what’s accelerated what I’ve
been able to accomplish and I so it’s
like when people are like oh how do you
have time how do you have so much time
to read it’s like well how do you have
time to sleep an atty of time to eat and
go to work like that’s just what you do
it’s not like this extra luxury that I
squeeze in when I’m on vacation got it
that was going to be one of my questions
how’d you get that yeah under read so
there’s no secret and like I don’t read
fast like I think a lot of people think
that people who read a lot must be like
speed readers and so they focus on that
it’s like no people realize just spend a
lot of time reading
because it’s important to them and
that’s sort of the distinction that I
made I think we tend to I saw this I
call this blockbuster syndrome we want
every launch to be enormous we want to
concentrate it all in a very small
period and we want to bring in millions
and millions of users we want to be a
trending topic on Twitter we want
millions of video views we want to be in
the front page of newspapers but is this
really what we need um or is it better
to find the right early adopters cheaply
and quickly and so when you look at a
company like uber which launched first
not worldwide but in a select number of
cities and they targeted very early on
specific users typically tech mail users
in cities like San Francisco and New
York um and when they said okay how are
we going to grow this product they
latched on South by Southwest is a place
to launch because their target customers
from all over the world would be in one
city for one week during the year and
they gave away millions of dollars worth
of uber rides they forced people through
the through the product they taught them
how to use it and then they took that
knowledge back to the cities that they
are from Airbnb is another amazing
example they said okay we’re a tiny
startup we’re trying to get people to
get comfortable using to get using it
where do we find our customers so they
create a workaround that allowed people
to cross post there very early Airbnb
listings onto Craigslist so here they
are using the dominant platform for
apartments to grow to grow their brand
and so I like this idea of of hacking
the system and there’s this quote from
Neha Baldwin the founder of graphicly
saying because we don’t have the budgets
because we don’t have the huge marketing
departments we have to look for the
tricks and the shortcuts how do we bring
people through the system force them to
use it get them acclimated to doing so
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