welcome everybody to another YouTube
hang out super excited to be here I have
a special guest ed who runs a podcast
with sage and I’m going to be speaking
at sage summit next month it’s coming up
quickly Wow and he is doing a bunch of
interviews asking people what they’re
talking about at sage summit as well as
other helpful advice for entrepreneurs
so he thought he would interview me for
the podcast I said hey why don’t we turn
this into it YouTube hang out so my
audience can learn about what he’s up to
as well so and welcome aboard well
thanks this is like it’s a podcast
within a podcast I love it this is
awesome for the people who aren’t super
familiar with what you’re doing I’ve
linked up your channel in the
description of this video but could you
give us kind of quick overview of what
your podcasts all about sure this is
just something I started as a skunk
works project about three years ago
inside sage I decided I want to do a
podcast and nobody told me to stop so
here it is and what I decided is I
really wanted to interview basically
three constituencies I wanted to talk to
our partner organizations which was
really primarily where it started so the
folks who sell our software and then
recommend us and all that and then the
second was to also talk to customers so
sage customers and then thirdly too just
to talk to sage colleagues anybody who’s
a thought leader inside sage well summit
rolled around that year and and I was in
a meeting with the summit team and they
said and I came up this idea hey
wouldn’t it be a good idea if we
interviewed some of our outside speakers
who were coming to say summit to
introduce them to our audience so we
picked up and run with it and we’ve been
doing that for the last three years as
part of a special series that we do
leading up to sage summit so here we are
here we go here we are I love it I love
it so treat this like your show you know
you run it however you want to run it
and I’m excited to answer your questions
alright cool so what we’ll do is I’ll
will do this exactly like I had gotten
you on skype which is where I normally
do these and then we’ll do like that
with the pre-show banter which you
talked about and then we’ll just
launched into the podcast as we’re
actually recording it and then we’ll
take it from there how’s that sound
let’s do it alright cool so hey Evan
thanks for being on the podcast I just
put a couple of logistic things I want
to go over with you before we get
started
first I your name is easy to pronounce
Evan Carmichael so I don’t have to worry
about that but I always ask how to
pronounce people’s names because you
never know but then the other thing I
want to get it from you is what name and
title should I introduce you as for that
Wow company name in title whatever
you’re feeling man I don’t care no no
well if this is Evan Carmichael he’s
blah blah blah of blah blah blah why
usual by was he believes in
entrepreneurs right okay that’s it in
entrepreneurs okay great and let’s get
back to that because i wanna i want to
tell you what my personal why is after
we finish this up I’m gonna say for that
but yeah I think we’ll find it in Lyman
ok so in he believes in entrepreneurs
all right and I just want to make sure
that I have your sessions correct at
Summit one is YouTube your ultimate 2016
wepa ting weapon is that right okay all
right and then the other it is it is a
separate session because it sounds a
little bit similar seven ways to
effectively use YouTube to market your
business or is that the same thing or
those two different things we’ve been
going back and forth they wanted me to
talk about YouTube they wanted me to
talk about marketing they wanted me to
talk about raising capital ok you know
sorry I’m talking with something so
let’s let’s just use YouTube your
ultimate 2016 marketing weapon and we’ll
just talk about that one session and you
can kind of vamp off of that sure all
right so and normally I like start a
thing but I don’t have to do that so
what we’ll get started I’m gonna do a
reverse countdown and five from five the
one will be silent I will introduce
myself introduce you and then we’ll get
started you ready heaven they’ll hold my
breath all right here we go ready in
five four three two well hi everyone and
welcome to our podcast imed class and
with me today is Evan Carmichael Evan
believes in entrepreneurs and he is a
speaker at sade summit 2016 welcome to
the podcast Evan thanks for having me
out I’m excited well first tell our
audience a little bit about yourself
this is a special series that we do
trying to introduce our speakers to
summit so who are you what do you do
sure
mission is to help a billion
entrepreneurs and I do that primarily
through my youtube channel into my
website I try to provide content that is
both motivational as well as provide
tactical things you can execute on to
help you grow your business and why do
you do what you do at them because it
makes me come alive because I’m excited
by it because I wake up every day and I
get to help entrepreneurs who are out
there changing the world and because I’m
good at it because it fuels me because I
see the comments coming in every day on
my youtube channel of people who say how
much my content has helped them I love
it and that’s it even if it wasn’t
getting paid to do this I would keep
doing it because it makes me come alive
and you’ve got a session coming up at
summit that I want to ask you about and
the title of that is YouTube your
ultimate 2016 marketing weapon tell us a
little bit about that session yeah I
think more and more people need to
realize that marketing is moving online
I think we’ve understood that everybody
has a website now everybody’s using that
in their marketing but more and more
people are turning to video YouTube is
the biggest house in the video world
where you know simulcasting us on a
YouTube channel right now as well I try
to gear all my stuff towards YouTube
because there’s such a massive audience
there and I think entrepreneurs who can
understand how YouTube works and use
that for their business to connect them
with new clients necting with new
partners potential employees it’s just
such an easy way to be able to grow your
business now compared to traditional
methods and I’m going to be talking
about how entrepreneurs can leverage
that to grow their company awesome and
we have an exit question that we ask all
of our guests on the sage advice podcast
and that is who is a hero of yours and
why are they a hero who can I give to
sure I’m cheating but you know how much
printers don’t play with the rules
anyway that’s right that’s right ah the
first one would say is my parents and I
think that’s maybe a typical answer but
my parents taught me believe my parents
are the ones that you know came up with
belief for me and always taught me that
I could do whatever I wanted they they
told me that was a ghost really
Carmichael my mom’s last name is cuz
truly I was like us truly karmic and I
could do anything that I put my mind to
and so that was the genesis for who I am
now and shaped my mindset and my
upbringing and I try to now impart that
on my son but also on on others my
message is all about believe uh but they
didn’t teach shall be an entrepreneur
they got me they taught me the values
they taught me how to be a human being
they taught me how to be a good person
which I take i give them insane credit
for my biggest business hero is JP Janey
me or sorry AP Giannini who was the
founder of Bank of America and you might
think a banker was a banker a hero of
yours and he was the believe banker he
he was the first guy to give loans to
immigrants in in hard-working
blue-collar people where traditional
banks just wanted to lend the people who
had you know a lot of money in their
pockets and he was the guy who bet on
people he gave Walt Disney the money to
to come up with Snow White when people
thought it’s crazy to do a full feature
animation nobody would ever watch that
he financed the Golden State bridge and
everybody thought it was nuts when it
was a huge earthquake in San Francisco
that totaled the city all the banks were
closed he went to his bank set up two
barrels in a plank across in open
business and lent money to people to
rebuild their lives based off of a
handshake and a look in their eye if you
can imagine a banker giving you a loan
now based off a handshake and a look in
your eye you’d be you’d be laughed out
of the bank uh but that was that was how
he rolled and he built up you know a
massive bank because of it and so I
don’t think the company is a great job
and telling their story but AP Giannini
is my biggest business hero and lastly
how can somebody get a hold of you Evan
easiest way is to just look up Evan
Carmichael you’ll find me on email on
facebook on Twitter on YouTube pretty
easy to find alright sounds great that
for me to guest on the podcast thanks
for having me end of podcasts so we’ll
cut that out snip it and i’ll send it
out on all things social within sage and
and so that it’ll be fun and i’ll get
you an email with all links and stuff
and you can put it up as well something
super quick super quick ya know what we
found interestingly enough on these is
that our if we do podcasts that are
under like 10 minutes we get people to
listen to them and it once they go over
10 they better go 45 right nobody wants
to listen to a podcast at somewhere
between 10 and 45 minutes I don’t know
why but that’s okay alright we have some
questions from the live audience you
want yeah Rishi Cup TV is asking hi
everyone I want to go to Sage summit so
bad how can I find out so I will make
sure I link up sage summit in the
description I don’t know if we have or
not i’ll double check on that yeah but
um about station but how can people find
out how can they buy tickets very
difficult sage summit calm so sick so
there you go saints i’ma comm all one
word SI GES um MIT and you’re gonna be
there in I am yes I’ve got a couple
sessions myself so oh cool yeah so I’m
going to be there speaking at least once
I’ve really gone there for the whole
thing and for those of you who do show
up I’d love to have a jam session at
some yeah i’m doing a video or something
we’ll figure it out yeah um Tamra weeks
is writing in so i’m reading that ed
likes the art of consulting and pricing
mmm-hmm yep yeah she’s doing her
homework they’re doing their homework
yeah ah good her question is when do we
give value and when do we charge for the
value and then give even more okay well
this is a really interesting question so
in my view there are actually three
components that are involved in every
transaction there’s your cost there’s
the price and then there’s the value
that the customer gets and what I think
a lot of people need to recall is that
unlike what you will hear in the movie
Wall Street which is it’s a zero-sum
game it’s not a zero
game right you each trade is supposed to
be something which both sides win so for
most professional organizations I think
the key is is to have what i call the
value conversation with the customer
upfront to try to understand hey what is
the value of what it is that we can
provide because if there’s no perceived
value in the customers mind it doesn’t
matter what your prices doesn’t matter
right so the first step is really to
have that detailed value conversation
and by the way that value is not just
financial monetary ro what we would
consider roi value it’s also sometimes
what i like to call spiritual value it’s
also what is it that it’s going to do to
you know allow you to get to your kids
little league game on time right so be
beyond just the the tangible value which
there should be some so what is that
value and then once you do that you then
want to offer a price and one of the
things that I always recommend is never
offer just one price never never you
should always offer choices to people
because what we’ve what what’s been
known for years ever since by the way
sears did this in their catalog in the
1800’s is that people like to have a
choice of good better best right so if
you go down to starbucks you got tall
Grande venti if you go to your car wash
you’re going to have gold silver bronze
and many organizations have have I think
really done it themselves a disservice
by not offering that choice or like here
take it or leave it and then they’re
surprised when people leave it so offer
those three choices and then service the
hell out of that customer to make them
happy so it’s really all about that
value conversation that leads into them
giving price so that’s the that’s the
thought I love it yeah sad i would say
from my perspective i try to add value
in the marketplace which then attracts
people to me so west when a client is
coming to me they’re already pre-sold on
what I can do and you’re interested in
working with me even though I’ve never
met them because all the content and
though that I’m contributing to the
marketplace yeah I’m much better at
marketing dynamic sales I’m not the guy
who calls people up and convinces them
to buy nah which is definitely in a lot
of people skill set and toolbox is just
not mine
so I’m much more on the marketing side
and I want to just put out tons of
amazing value that attracts the right
ideal clients to me so Tamara I’d be
looking at how can I create content that
would align with my ideal client so that
they would want to write to you and want
to work with you what are your takes I
know she was asking something about this
prior what are your take on I’m
providing something for free when they
first make up that conversation versus
charging and at what point do you charge
them yeah i mean i think at what you’re
ultimately getting to is a certain point
where that where there is a charge as
quickly as possible but but there’s
going to be a certain amount of freemium
that’s always involved you know some
kind of a like a video or something that
you can give away and the way i really
like to think about it is is that hey
listen you know if you’re talking about
yourself and what it is that you can do
especially in a professional setting
then yeah that’s probably part of your
quote sales or marketing process but as
soon as you start transferring knowledge
over to the customer it’s at that point
that there should be some kind of a
relationship where you’re getting paid
to do that and if you really want to
look something up because i think that
that is a great job was done in a scene
from Mad Men did you watch Mad Men Evan
did you watch Mad Men not really but I
know it i’m not a big I Syria you’re
right you’re familiar with it but
there’s a scene if you if you actually
look up this it’s a YouTube clip called
I want you to give me one for free the
protagonist of madmen is this guy Don
Draper right and he has this all of a
sudden impromptu meeting with with this
guy he was previously introduced to his
Connie well turns out the connie is
conrad hilton right of the hilton hotel
chain and they sit down in the in the
presidential suite of the world of
astoria hotel right and connie said and
don draper’s just so you know why am I
here basically and he says well Don I
like I like your opinion on this this ad
copy that someone else has is doing is
it has done for me and Don Draper Don
Draper says something I think is
extraordinarily profound to Connie at
that point he says you know you see your
what you wanted me to
work for free and he said he says you
know you know Noah this is this is
friendly he and and I love the way he
says this he says Connie this is my
profession what do you expect me to do
and I think that that is just such a
great response to people who are trying
to get not just your little free sample
right but you’re the free stuff from you
as much as they can get this is my
profession what do you expect me to do
now interestingly enough he actually
does give Connie something interest for
free what he looked he looks at the ad
copy and there’s a mouse in it and he
says to Conrad Hilton he goes I don’t
think anybody wants to think about a
mouse in a hotel room right in other
words his free what he gave for free was
the crap that you have does not work
that that’s I’ll give you for free right
and and then he said and then Conrad
Hilton says do you have something better
and and Draper goes I might I might I
haven’t thought about it right so anyway
they go through this whole thing but I
think it’s just a really great scene
around this whole you know what do you
do when somebody is asking you to give
away something for free I think there is
a certain amount of sample that you can
give and like Don Draper when you give a
sample give a sample so that it shows
your creativity how your creative how
you work but not necessarily an idea of
how to ultimately solve their problems
so it’s a sample of how you work but not
necessarily what your creativity is now
of course you know Don Draper had
writers so you know you have to we have
to keep that in mind but anyway so
that’s that that’s that that would be my
my advice on giving stuff for free yes
we should but beep draw line well she
wrote back to say that’s a great story
and it really answers my question so oh
good even though its job with some add
value on the on the show um I would also
add to it it comes down to what you
believe you’re worth I think when I
first started working with brands I you
know Xerox approached me and Microsoft
approach
me and I was willing to work for free
like Microsoft wants to work with me wow
I could put that on my website that i
look with microsoft they’re going to be
promoted me on there to their audience I
think Microsoft offered me like five
hundred dollars or something like I
would have done it for free i’m getting
five hundred dollars that’s amazing and
and then I realized hey like I’m
providing them real value to this isn’t
yeah they’re not doing me a favor I’m
giving them a lot of value and and then
I slowly started bumping up my price
sure I have a limited number of spots
that I can work with a limited number of
companies and as the man grew I just
started increasing my price so a double
it and then double it again and just
keep increasing it until i hit the
resistance point and just me believe in
that hey i’m worth a lot more than five
hundred dollars for an engagement that
took a little while mentally for me to
get there had to had to believe in
myself a little bit right right welcome
if you don’t believe in yourself your
customer certainly not going to do it
you know i will say this though that in
key in pricing and it is an area that i
studied pretty extensively there’s
there’s a model called the van
westendorp model we don’t need to get
into the whole thing but one of the
questions in the van westen drop model
is at what price would this customer
consider this too cheap and not buy it I
think that’s a really interesting
question like I live it outside of
Dallas okay if you ever see a sign for
all you can eat sushi for five dollars
in Dallas I suggest you avoid it right
right because it’s too cheap right you
would you got to question the value so
that it’s a pretty interesting thought
process behind that oh I’m down totally
German subjects I want to tell you
because I really want to make that get
this out I’m sure have you are you
familiar with simon Sinek start with why
yeah so I want to I want to share with
you my why because I think you’ll you’ll
you’ll like it I so this is what I
believe I believe that entrepreneurs
continue the work of creation nice and
that’s and that’s that’s my lead in when
I talk to people and when people ask me
what I do that’s what I respond i tell
them why I do it and then usually people
like well okay tell me more about that
so I believe entrepreneurs continue the
work of creation I like it I like it I
was just on another podcast and talking
about how entrepreneurs can solve all
the world’s problems yeah so I like it I
like that extension it’s good
like-mindedness I love ya that’s awesome
Eric keiko is writing in what are you
currently reading oh gosh i am currently
reading blockchain revolution blockchain
revolution have never heard of it what
is it and I’m trying to remember the
guys name Tapscott you know I can’t
remember Nate the names of people who
write books anywhere I think it’s doing
Dane times got have Scott yeah yeah
blockchain revolution and the reason why
I’ve you know I don’t know I forget
names of books because you know you
don’t look at the title anymore because
you’re reading it on a kindle and see ya
you know so anyway but yeah blockchain
revolution and man this is this is cool
stuff this is really cool stuff I I
think block chain is going to have an
impact on business you know it not
necessarily Bitcoin but block chain and
it’s gonna be quicker than we all expect
cool well he’s a fellow Canadian so I
didn’t promote them I must imma i mean
i’m looking at n they see a library
behind him there i’m a really slow
reader i do a lot more videos which is
why i love you too right now the door
i’m still reading onward by howard
schultz i really love that book love
Howard guy who led the business from
values and talks about how he came back
into the business and made it successful
against oh yeah interesting i’m i
recommend it but you got to kind of like
those kind of stories yeah yeah no
that’s good good stuff um area man Aria
min I’m an app developer and I have nine
apps and he’s wondering about how to
market them mmm well that’s probably
more for you I’m les a marketing guy
than I am a pricing guy purse aid but
might you know this the suggestion is is
first of all I think it’s something
along lines with what we were saying is
find out what is the or try to
understand what is the value of your app
right really understand what is it that
it does for some
I else’s organization or somebody in
particular person and how does it create
value for them how does it make their
life better and to me that’s that that
then becomes the focus of the marketing
effort is hey listen do you have this
problem and lighting it back again we
talked about Simon’s neck early but he
has does the great example of tivo &
Tebow’s marketing problem is that tivo
came to us and told us they had a
product that stop live TV would pause
live TV rewind it and memorize your
viewing habits and we were freaked out
by it instead of saying hey listen are
you a person who likes to take absolute
and total control of your life boy then
we have a product for you right and I I
think that that’s what you need to do is
try to find you know what is the what is
the why behind your product what does it
do that makes somebody’s life better not
the function but what does it do that
makes their life actually better and
focus on that cool j rise is correcting
me in that it’s Don Tapscott I said Dane
tapscott man i’m don tapscott yep ok get
a rise ah you know good it missed a
letter missed a letter um for this app
question I’d be wondering why do you
have nine apps like if you haven’t
figured out how to market one I would
really try to figure out how to market
that first one before going anywhere
yeah or group them together in a bundle
or something yeah like it’s hard enough
to run a business with one product let a
little nine products and if it’s not
taking off and they’re not successful
then maybe you need to kill off some of
the other apps but if not like I would I
would stop creating more new apps and
start thinking about how do I make like
pink the one of the line that you love
the most it has the biggest potential
impact and go build that thing to be
amazing yeah audience right see your
people using it like a people coming
back do they look at your appt I don’t
know what your apps are all about but
are they using it on a regular basis
like if people are coming back and using
the app regularly then you’ve got a
potential hit if they open it up and
they use it once and it’s gone then
forget about it so then once you have
some usage what are they like what
new features can you add in that one app
insanely good instead of creating
another just okay app that you worried
about marketing I would try to get as
close to my users as possible maybe you
get something in the in the in the in
the app itself that says hey I’d love to
get your feedback I’ll give you a
twenty-dollar starbucks gift card or
something and get on the phone with them
and understand how they’re using it what
they like about it why they downloaded
it is it to their expectations or not
get as close to the users as possible to
learn how to make it better and your
best market is going to be them like
them using it kinda lino friends about
it so if they’re not insanely in love
with the application itself then all the
market in the world isn’t going to save
you you need to create a great product
so that’d be my advice the next shot is
asking what’s your favorite movie and
why should i watch it the next shot
what’s my favorite movie and I hit why
should the next shot watch it why should
the next round watch my favorite movie
oh man I have lots of favorite movies um
let me let me just throw one you like
just completely random off the wall that
I know probably not a lot of people have
even heard of and then it is movie
called the lives of others and it is a
it’s it now this this makes it even
harder to watch right because it’s in
German and you got to read the subtitles
ok but it is probably one of the best
movies that i’ve ever seen for an
understanding of what it must have been
like to live under Soviet style
communism because it’s it the movies
about an East German Stasi officer who’s
spying on a playwright and the you know
the fact that they they bug up his
apartment and all of this stuff and it
says it’s just a wonderfully fantastic
story and it’s it’s just a just a great
movie now if I want to go something more
traditional and to tell you why I’m a
big big Orson Welles fan from way back
so we wat watch sit watch Citizen Kane
and if you want to watch a second movie
watch Citizen Kane twice the
ah I love it uh my favorite movie of all
time is Seabiscuit super busy a movie
but I’ve seen it at least 20 times it’s
the underdog story it’s an underdog
horse that nobody thought would win and
I’m sake that’s too big and an owner
that you know has failed in business and
a trainer who nobody believes anymore
like all these people and the horse that
everybody is counted out and somehow
they manage to all come together in and
win and be like one of the greatest race
horses of all time if I’m not mistaken
the director of that movie has a new
film coming out I just it was on CBS
this morning and in the you in the US
has a Sunday morning Charles Osgood and
there’s a there was a snippet and I
remember the inner than interview and it
was just happen to see that Seabiscuit’s
the Huey so he’s coming out with a new
movie I can’t remember the name of it
though Oh anyway cool i’ll check it out
i love the movie um it’s just it screams
believe it’s a it does ah nothing really
do with business but it just I love it
as to why you should watch it I don’t
know I’m not in the business of
convincing people to do things oh that
sounded Christine go watch it if it
didn’t don’t I don’t care uh but i like
it it’s a great movie um Dennis Wagner
how does he I’m assuming you meant it’s
a good too close how does he attempt the
clothes and nearly impossible clothes I
want to see if he has any tools in the
box that I can use okay um so look if
there’s no and this is like a pricing
mantra that I have there is no right way
to price the wrong customer so just as a
derivation of that there’s no right way
to close a wrong customer so to me it’s
more about customer selection is this is
this a customer that really belongs in
your portfolio and you know and that’s
another analogy like us think of think
of your customer base is a portfolio you
know you want high-risk low-risk you
want you know some that are difficult to
work with some that are not so difficult
because they give you a challenge
sometimes that’s one thing but i’ll give
you my 11 of the
that the tips if you will when you have
someone who’s resistant or seems to be
resistant around having a conversation
with you and empathy and they just want
a price right so here’s here’s is three
words ready it’s you ask them what’s my
budget for that what’s my budget don’t
at don’t say what’s your budget because
their budget is always zero right so but
when you ask them what’s my budget it’s
a really interesting way of of
positioning it and saying it really in a
way what’s this worth to you right
because it first of all it’s it’s it
says hey there’s going to be a price
that’s associated with this and I it
also says I think I can solve your
problem I just don’t know how much that
I can spend to solve your problem so
what’s my budget that would be something
I would try and it doesn’t always work
by the way does not i will admit it’s
not a it’s not it’s not a panacea so but
give it a shot my approach is maybe
that’s why he asked you but uh huh I
have no interest in closing the nearly
impossible like yeah if you don’t love
what I’m about I don’t want to talk to
you like we are not meant to do business
together I would rather spend my time
with someone who sees the value what I’m
doing I don’t try to convince people of
anything yeah so I turn away like if
somebody was only interested in my price
then we probably wouldn’t have a very
long conversation and that might confuse
them like I would tell them I’m no
interesting convincing you to work with
me yeah yeah yeah and I’m gonna put a
caveat on it and front up front yeah I
agree some people uh then respect that
and get curious and want to find out
more yeah and some people think I’m a
total crazy business person like that
doesn’t make any sense i M will not well
together if I need to convince you but
why I’m why I can help you my friend Rob
Johnson calls it the break-up close
right it’s not it’s not you honey it’s
me I don’t think it’s back to the one of
the first questions about providing
value to the market yeah like
people are coming to me because it
provided value to the market and so they
need to their already pre-sold if you’re
not pre-sold on me then I’m not gonna
sell you I have no interest like I’d
rather spend my time on people who are
better fits for me so I don’t know if
that help Dennis you know when I listen
to ed I’m on that one but know what I
actually thought the same thing I said
listen if it’s not the right customer
but then I’d you know you know then I
give them a something that might might
if you think it might be worth salvaging
right if you think it might be worth
salvaging try what’s my budget I like it
um freshlook co uh how do you know when
you’ve hit how do you know when you have
a hit product their idea fresh look how
do you know when you have a hit product
or idea you have boatloads of people who
buy it uh yeah pretty sweet uh for me
how would I answer this i would say
often i love it ah i think the challenge
becomes you know you’re creating
something and you haven’t released it
yet or you’ve released a version that
isn’t quite ready yet and so happy how
do you know if you should kill it or
keep going with it because obviously if
you release it you release an app and it
takes off great you had a hit idea work
right when you’re at the point where you
just have an idea and you haven’t
executed against it or you’ve started
and you haven’t gotten positive results
then what do you do with it and i think
for me it’s does this thing make me come
alive like am I am I still super
passionate point a lot more time energy
into making this better or am I done is
like oh that was a test and I don’t want
to do it anymore you know like I tried
rock climbing I didn’t like it so I’m
not going back anymore but was curious
have to try it but I’m not going to do
any more because gonna like it right you
tried salsa dance and I fell in love
with it I’ve been doing it for over a
decade you know so I’m going to keep
going at it so same thing with your
business if you’re trying something
that’s an interest cool if it’s not
working then are you still interested in
if you still have that passion I love to
try to make it better if you do there’s
a way to make it work if you lose an
interest
then kill it move on to something else
heaven can you talk about how to
determine your price point / marketplace
value for music artists or any art Wow
are I mean art is art is always a tough
one because it’s you know it’s it’s the
ultimate proof that value is subjective
right you know if I have a
seven-year-old daughter and there’s a
picture right now hanging on on a
refrigerator that she did the first day
in kindergarten two years ago and you
know isn’t blue highlighter or whatever
that she drew this and i doubt i could
get anyone to buy it buy it for a
million dollars even if I told him it
was a caracal s original right but but
if the house was burning down and I got
everybody out of the house my wife and
kids out of the house and I was passing
by the refrigerator i would i would
probably grab the picture right and and
why is that well because it’s it’s
valuable to me you know our art is real
is really hard i think is what i would
say this and maybe this is a direct
answer to the question but it’s don’t
don’t price it by how long it takes you
to do right because that that doesn’t
matter doesn’t matter the buyer what
Matt what matters is is is there so
their subjectivity of it and you know
you just got to find the right person
who likes your likes your stuff I don’t
know that you probably have something
better because that’s that’s a really
hard one I think for artists especially
it really comes down how much you
believe you’re worth I think you have to
have I think entrepreneurs in general
underpriced themselves just as a
generating we don’t charge enough for
our services or box whatever we’re
selling we look at other competing
product and say well those guys are
better and we always even if we have a
price we’re so quick to discount it
right like you bought a price and
anything but I could give you a deal at
this fight like you’re so quick to
discount your price and I think it’s
especially true for the art community
going more meta I think all
entrepreneurs are artists not just
people who are you know Sam you’re
making paintings yeah and we tend to we
tend to worry about how people judge the
art that we’re creating and so that’s
why we discounted prices so much and if
you look at the artists who are making a
lot of money they believe in what
they’re doing like I worth this much and
I look at people that I’ve hired to
create stuff for me I never give push
back on the price I went see what they
can create so I will you know for my
video editor right what she’s creating
for me is art I need somebody to take
the material i’m giving them and make it
beautiful right it’s an art project and
when I hired I hired 10 to 15 people on
a trial project and give them five hours
go make your art give me something
amazing and I hire people who are from
minimum wage up to a lot more than
minimum wage and I’m okay hiring the
person who is charging more but I want
to see a superior result sure I like
that process to believe in what they’re
doing that has to turn in an amazing
result and so I didn’t end up hiring the
cheapest person because I subjectively
liked the art of the person who charged
more but I never I never beat them down
on price like I’m looking for what stub
what do I resonate most with and that’s
the person i’m going to hire not the
price is never an option but it’s not
the first option it all becomes it’s
only the the default option when people
can’t tell the difference between your
products if I can’t tell the difference
from what you’re selling then I’m going
to beat you down on price all day long
like pay this guy selling it for ten
dollars cheaper than yours well it’s not
the same thing right like if I can’t
understand the difference and so your
confidence your belief in yourself your
belief in what you can create plays a
huge role in how you end up pricing
yourself because if you say hey I’ll
record a song for you it’ll cost five
hundred dollars like you got to believe
it’s worth having dollars somebody else
might charge fifty thousand dollars and
it’s got to be worth fifty thousand
dollars to write like obviously budgets
do come into play not everybody can
or different price points but you have
to be able to go and walk in believing
that hey I can provide fifty dollars or
fifty thousand dollars for five hundred
dollars worth of value to my client
who’s hiring me yeah self-esteem is such
a critical issue Israel’s writing in I
want to start a business I have many
ideas I don’t know how to lift it to get
it from pen and paper to something solid
well I think that goes back to one of
the things that you mentioned is which
which one are you most passionate about
right an employee I guess with Jim
Collins called the Hedgehog principle
which is you know the intersection of
three questions what are you passionate
about passionate about what can you do
well or be best in the world at and what
drives your economic engine and those
would be the three questions that i
would ask and and try to come to the
conclusion whatever they whatever the
the best answer to all three of those is
so the Venn diagram if you drew that out
as three circles what and and then try
to develop what what columns called your
be hack write your big hairy audacious
goal about that particular business so
that I would I would lean toward the one
at your most passionate about I love it
and I think if you’re having trouble
starting remember that there’s no one
place to start like there’s no one
magical step yeah i’ll start with there
there’s a million places to start just
start like do something today right lock
out an hour a day half an hour a day
every single day and just do something
and and you’ll be all over the place at
the start but you’ll eventually find
your path so whether it’s doing research
whether it’s trying to talk to potential
customer whether it’s trying to get into
the media whether it’s talking to
potential partners or trying to find
different suppliers whatever it is start
like spend time every single day on your
business and you’ll eventually find your
path sounds like I just do it yeah well
it’s truly but keeping the framework
that I’d suggested right obviously like
you’re picking a thing that you’re
really passionate about great you know
pick that list from the from your you
have the ideas on paper okay Ailee
what’s what’s the one you want to do the
most you have the most love for great
okay now what do you do about it like I
know something today there’s no one play
to start I think too many people get
hung up they see it as big impossible
task to launch a business from an idea
and they don’t realize that like you
don’t just jump from here to here you
just it’s just a series of tiny steps
that you just consistently take I need
to look back and it looks like this big
step forward but i would venture to say
what would you think about this Evan
that the number of successful businesses
that have been launched on a 17-page MBA
business plan art is at or near zero
right right it’s true and I was that guy
who made a business plan for my business
and then as soon as as soon as we
started marketing we realize that a lot
of the assumptions were just wrong now
that doesn’t mean you don’t plan at all
just people over planners and you plan
so much that you don’t do and then the
over doers who just do crazy things
never playing we’re like whatever your
natural tendency is you want to involve
a little bit of the other side just so
that you get that success so it sounds
like you’re an over planner uh Israel so
a little more little less pine a little
more just doing and don’t worry like
perfectionism gets in the way there is
no perfect plan just start yeah eight
percent eighty percent then move you can
make course corrections to the last
twenty percent cool well we got a lot of
great feedback Network I know we’re over
time but we’re at the 45 minute mark
that’s the magic mark for your pot head
is Ray I know get you play the whole
thing now whole audio now and send it
out of it um people writing in this is
very helpful thank you add and Evan
great chat going on here at and Evan I
like Ed’s vibe so there you go I got a
good vibe going on apparently I like to
UM cool I mean I know you gotta run
thank you for spending extra time with
us here today for people who want to
learn more about what you’re all about I
linked it up again in this code but
quick like final words that you want to
give the audience well yeah two quick
quick things first of all you know I
work for a company called sage so sage
calm is the place to go for that state
summit if you’re interested in coming to
the event but I do do a radio show if
you’re interested in the topics that I
talked about today because we’re pricing
forever and that is called the soul of
enterprise the soul of enterprise com so
please check out the
oh I’m just writing that down to make
sure I have it in the description to the
soul of enterprise nice calm cool i’ll
link it up thank you thanks watching
thank all right so much continue to
believe everyone and we’ll see you soon
peace out
hang out super excited to be here I have
a special guest ed who runs a podcast
with sage and I’m going to be speaking
at sage summit next month it’s coming up
quickly Wow and he is doing a bunch of
interviews asking people what they’re
talking about at sage summit as well as
other helpful advice for entrepreneurs
so he thought he would interview me for
the podcast I said hey why don’t we turn
this into it YouTube hang out so my
audience can learn about what he’s up to
as well so and welcome aboard well
thanks this is like it’s a podcast
within a podcast I love it this is
awesome for the people who aren’t super
familiar with what you’re doing I’ve
linked up your channel in the
description of this video but could you
give us kind of quick overview of what
your podcasts all about sure this is
just something I started as a skunk
works project about three years ago
inside sage I decided I want to do a
podcast and nobody told me to stop so
here it is and what I decided is I
really wanted to interview basically
three constituencies I wanted to talk to
our partner organizations which was
really primarily where it started so the
folks who sell our software and then
recommend us and all that and then the
second was to also talk to customers so
sage customers and then thirdly too just
to talk to sage colleagues anybody who’s
a thought leader inside sage well summit
rolled around that year and and I was in
a meeting with the summit team and they
said and I came up this idea hey
wouldn’t it be a good idea if we
interviewed some of our outside speakers
who were coming to say summit to
introduce them to our audience so we
picked up and run with it and we’ve been
doing that for the last three years as
part of a special series that we do
leading up to sage summit so here we are
here we go here we are I love it I love
it so treat this like your show you know
you run it however you want to run it
and I’m excited to answer your questions
alright cool so what we’ll do is I’ll
will do this exactly like I had gotten
you on skype which is where I normally
do these and then we’ll do like that
with the pre-show banter which you
talked about and then we’ll just
launched into the podcast as we’re
actually recording it and then we’ll
take it from there how’s that sound
let’s do it alright cool so hey Evan
thanks for being on the podcast I just
put a couple of logistic things I want
to go over with you before we get
started
first I your name is easy to pronounce
Evan Carmichael so I don’t have to worry
about that but I always ask how to
pronounce people’s names because you
never know but then the other thing I
want to get it from you is what name and
title should I introduce you as for that
Wow company name in title whatever
you’re feeling man I don’t care no no
well if this is Evan Carmichael he’s
blah blah blah of blah blah blah why
usual by was he believes in
entrepreneurs right okay that’s it in
entrepreneurs okay great and let’s get
back to that because i wanna i want to
tell you what my personal why is after
we finish this up I’m gonna say for that
but yeah I think we’ll find it in Lyman
ok so in he believes in entrepreneurs
all right and I just want to make sure
that I have your sessions correct at
Summit one is YouTube your ultimate 2016
wepa ting weapon is that right okay all
right and then the other it is it is a
separate session because it sounds a
little bit similar seven ways to
effectively use YouTube to market your
business or is that the same thing or
those two different things we’ve been
going back and forth they wanted me to
talk about YouTube they wanted me to
talk about marketing they wanted me to
talk about raising capital ok you know
sorry I’m talking with something so
let’s let’s just use YouTube your
ultimate 2016 marketing weapon and we’ll
just talk about that one session and you
can kind of vamp off of that sure all
right so and normally I like start a
thing but I don’t have to do that so
what we’ll get started I’m gonna do a
reverse countdown and five from five the
one will be silent I will introduce
myself introduce you and then we’ll get
started you ready heaven they’ll hold my
breath all right here we go ready in
five four three two well hi everyone and
welcome to our podcast imed class and
with me today is Evan Carmichael Evan
believes in entrepreneurs and he is a
speaker at sade summit 2016 welcome to
the podcast Evan thanks for having me
out I’m excited well first tell our
audience a little bit about yourself
this is a special series that we do
trying to introduce our speakers to
summit so who are you what do you do
sure
mission is to help a billion
entrepreneurs and I do that primarily
through my youtube channel into my
website I try to provide content that is
both motivational as well as provide
tactical things you can execute on to
help you grow your business and why do
you do what you do at them because it
makes me come alive because I’m excited
by it because I wake up every day and I
get to help entrepreneurs who are out
there changing the world and because I’m
good at it because it fuels me because I
see the comments coming in every day on
my youtube channel of people who say how
much my content has helped them I love
it and that’s it even if it wasn’t
getting paid to do this I would keep
doing it because it makes me come alive
and you’ve got a session coming up at
summit that I want to ask you about and
the title of that is YouTube your
ultimate 2016 marketing weapon tell us a
little bit about that session yeah I
think more and more people need to
realize that marketing is moving online
I think we’ve understood that everybody
has a website now everybody’s using that
in their marketing but more and more
people are turning to video YouTube is
the biggest house in the video world
where you know simulcasting us on a
YouTube channel right now as well I try
to gear all my stuff towards YouTube
because there’s such a massive audience
there and I think entrepreneurs who can
understand how YouTube works and use
that for their business to connect them
with new clients necting with new
partners potential employees it’s just
such an easy way to be able to grow your
business now compared to traditional
methods and I’m going to be talking
about how entrepreneurs can leverage
that to grow their company awesome and
we have an exit question that we ask all
of our guests on the sage advice podcast
and that is who is a hero of yours and
why are they a hero who can I give to
sure I’m cheating but you know how much
printers don’t play with the rules
anyway that’s right that’s right ah the
first one would say is my parents and I
think that’s maybe a typical answer but
my parents taught me believe my parents
are the ones that you know came up with
belief for me and always taught me that
I could do whatever I wanted they they
told me that was a ghost really
Carmichael my mom’s last name is cuz
truly I was like us truly karmic and I
could do anything that I put my mind to
and so that was the genesis for who I am
now and shaped my mindset and my
upbringing and I try to now impart that
on my son but also on on others my
message is all about believe uh but they
didn’t teach shall be an entrepreneur
they got me they taught me the values
they taught me how to be a human being
they taught me how to be a good person
which I take i give them insane credit
for my biggest business hero is JP Janey
me or sorry AP Giannini who was the
founder of Bank of America and you might
think a banker was a banker a hero of
yours and he was the believe banker he
he was the first guy to give loans to
immigrants in in hard-working
blue-collar people where traditional
banks just wanted to lend the people who
had you know a lot of money in their
pockets and he was the guy who bet on
people he gave Walt Disney the money to
to come up with Snow White when people
thought it’s crazy to do a full feature
animation nobody would ever watch that
he financed the Golden State bridge and
everybody thought it was nuts when it
was a huge earthquake in San Francisco
that totaled the city all the banks were
closed he went to his bank set up two
barrels in a plank across in open
business and lent money to people to
rebuild their lives based off of a
handshake and a look in their eye if you
can imagine a banker giving you a loan
now based off a handshake and a look in
your eye you’d be you’d be laughed out
of the bank uh but that was that was how
he rolled and he built up you know a
massive bank because of it and so I
don’t think the company is a great job
and telling their story but AP Giannini
is my biggest business hero and lastly
how can somebody get a hold of you Evan
easiest way is to just look up Evan
Carmichael you’ll find me on email on
facebook on Twitter on YouTube pretty
easy to find alright sounds great that
for me to guest on the podcast thanks
for having me end of podcasts so we’ll
cut that out snip it and i’ll send it
out on all things social within sage and
and so that it’ll be fun and i’ll get
you an email with all links and stuff
and you can put it up as well something
super quick super quick ya know what we
found interestingly enough on these is
that our if we do podcasts that are
under like 10 minutes we get people to
listen to them and it once they go over
10 they better go 45 right nobody wants
to listen to a podcast at somewhere
between 10 and 45 minutes I don’t know
why but that’s okay alright we have some
questions from the live audience you
want yeah Rishi Cup TV is asking hi
everyone I want to go to Sage summit so
bad how can I find out so I will make
sure I link up sage summit in the
description I don’t know if we have or
not i’ll double check on that yeah but
um about station but how can people find
out how can they buy tickets very
difficult sage summit calm so sick so
there you go saints i’ma comm all one
word SI GES um MIT and you’re gonna be
there in I am yes I’ve got a couple
sessions myself so oh cool yeah so I’m
going to be there speaking at least once
I’ve really gone there for the whole
thing and for those of you who do show
up I’d love to have a jam session at
some yeah i’m doing a video or something
we’ll figure it out yeah um Tamra weeks
is writing in so i’m reading that ed
likes the art of consulting and pricing
mmm-hmm yep yeah she’s doing her
homework they’re doing their homework
yeah ah good her question is when do we
give value and when do we charge for the
value and then give even more okay well
this is a really interesting question so
in my view there are actually three
components that are involved in every
transaction there’s your cost there’s
the price and then there’s the value
that the customer gets and what I think
a lot of people need to recall is that
unlike what you will hear in the movie
Wall Street which is it’s a zero-sum
game it’s not a zero
game right you each trade is supposed to
be something which both sides win so for
most professional organizations I think
the key is is to have what i call the
value conversation with the customer
upfront to try to understand hey what is
the value of what it is that we can
provide because if there’s no perceived
value in the customers mind it doesn’t
matter what your prices doesn’t matter
right so the first step is really to
have that detailed value conversation
and by the way that value is not just
financial monetary ro what we would
consider roi value it’s also sometimes
what i like to call spiritual value it’s
also what is it that it’s going to do to
you know allow you to get to your kids
little league game on time right so be
beyond just the the tangible value which
there should be some so what is that
value and then once you do that you then
want to offer a price and one of the
things that I always recommend is never
offer just one price never never you
should always offer choices to people
because what we’ve what what’s been
known for years ever since by the way
sears did this in their catalog in the
1800’s is that people like to have a
choice of good better best right so if
you go down to starbucks you got tall
Grande venti if you go to your car wash
you’re going to have gold silver bronze
and many organizations have have I think
really done it themselves a disservice
by not offering that choice or like here
take it or leave it and then they’re
surprised when people leave it so offer
those three choices and then service the
hell out of that customer to make them
happy so it’s really all about that
value conversation that leads into them
giving price so that’s the that’s the
thought I love it yeah sad i would say
from my perspective i try to add value
in the marketplace which then attracts
people to me so west when a client is
coming to me they’re already pre-sold on
what I can do and you’re interested in
working with me even though I’ve never
met them because all the content and
though that I’m contributing to the
marketplace yeah I’m much better at
marketing dynamic sales I’m not the guy
who calls people up and convinces them
to buy nah which is definitely in a lot
of people skill set and toolbox is just
not mine
so I’m much more on the marketing side
and I want to just put out tons of
amazing value that attracts the right
ideal clients to me so Tamara I’d be
looking at how can I create content that
would align with my ideal client so that
they would want to write to you and want
to work with you what are your takes I
know she was asking something about this
prior what are your take on I’m
providing something for free when they
first make up that conversation versus
charging and at what point do you charge
them yeah i mean i think at what you’re
ultimately getting to is a certain point
where that where there is a charge as
quickly as possible but but there’s
going to be a certain amount of freemium
that’s always involved you know some
kind of a like a video or something that
you can give away and the way i really
like to think about it is is that hey
listen you know if you’re talking about
yourself and what it is that you can do
especially in a professional setting
then yeah that’s probably part of your
quote sales or marketing process but as
soon as you start transferring knowledge
over to the customer it’s at that point
that there should be some kind of a
relationship where you’re getting paid
to do that and if you really want to
look something up because i think that
that is a great job was done in a scene
from Mad Men did you watch Mad Men Evan
did you watch Mad Men not really but I
know it i’m not a big I Syria you’re
right you’re familiar with it but
there’s a scene if you if you actually
look up this it’s a YouTube clip called
I want you to give me one for free the
protagonist of madmen is this guy Don
Draper right and he has this all of a
sudden impromptu meeting with with this
guy he was previously introduced to his
Connie well turns out the connie is
conrad hilton right of the hilton hotel
chain and they sit down in the in the
presidential suite of the world of
astoria hotel right and connie said and
don draper’s just so you know why am I
here basically and he says well Don I
like I like your opinion on this this ad
copy that someone else has is doing is
it has done for me and Don Draper Don
Draper says something I think is
extraordinarily profound to Connie at
that point he says you know you see your
what you wanted me to
work for free and he said he says you
know you know Noah this is this is
friendly he and and I love the way he
says this he says Connie this is my
profession what do you expect me to do
and I think that that is just such a
great response to people who are trying
to get not just your little free sample
right but you’re the free stuff from you
as much as they can get this is my
profession what do you expect me to do
now interestingly enough he actually
does give Connie something interest for
free what he looked he looks at the ad
copy and there’s a mouse in it and he
says to Conrad Hilton he goes I don’t
think anybody wants to think about a
mouse in a hotel room right in other
words his free what he gave for free was
the crap that you have does not work
that that’s I’ll give you for free right
and and then he said and then Conrad
Hilton says do you have something better
and and Draper goes I might I might I
haven’t thought about it right so anyway
they go through this whole thing but I
think it’s just a really great scene
around this whole you know what do you
do when somebody is asking you to give
away something for free I think there is
a certain amount of sample that you can
give and like Don Draper when you give a
sample give a sample so that it shows
your creativity how your creative how
you work but not necessarily an idea of
how to ultimately solve their problems
so it’s a sample of how you work but not
necessarily what your creativity is now
of course you know Don Draper had
writers so you know you have to we have
to keep that in mind but anyway so
that’s that that’s that that would be my
my advice on giving stuff for free yes
we should but beep draw line well she
wrote back to say that’s a great story
and it really answers my question so oh
good even though its job with some add
value on the on the show um I would also
add to it it comes down to what you
believe you’re worth I think when I
first started working with brands I you
know Xerox approached me and Microsoft
approach
me and I was willing to work for free
like Microsoft wants to work with me wow
I could put that on my website that i
look with microsoft they’re going to be
promoted me on there to their audience I
think Microsoft offered me like five
hundred dollars or something like I
would have done it for free i’m getting
five hundred dollars that’s amazing and
and then I realized hey like I’m
providing them real value to this isn’t
yeah they’re not doing me a favor I’m
giving them a lot of value and and then
I slowly started bumping up my price
sure I have a limited number of spots
that I can work with a limited number of
companies and as the man grew I just
started increasing my price so a double
it and then double it again and just
keep increasing it until i hit the
resistance point and just me believe in
that hey i’m worth a lot more than five
hundred dollars for an engagement that
took a little while mentally for me to
get there had to had to believe in
myself a little bit right right welcome
if you don’t believe in yourself your
customer certainly not going to do it
you know i will say this though that in
key in pricing and it is an area that i
studied pretty extensively there’s
there’s a model called the van
westendorp model we don’t need to get
into the whole thing but one of the
questions in the van westen drop model
is at what price would this customer
consider this too cheap and not buy it I
think that’s a really interesting
question like I live it outside of
Dallas okay if you ever see a sign for
all you can eat sushi for five dollars
in Dallas I suggest you avoid it right
right because it’s too cheap right you
would you got to question the value so
that it’s a pretty interesting thought
process behind that oh I’m down totally
German subjects I want to tell you
because I really want to make that get
this out I’m sure have you are you
familiar with simon Sinek start with why
yeah so I want to I want to share with
you my why because I think you’ll you’ll
you’ll like it I so this is what I
believe I believe that entrepreneurs
continue the work of creation nice and
that’s and that’s that’s my lead in when
I talk to people and when people ask me
what I do that’s what I respond i tell
them why I do it and then usually people
like well okay tell me more about that
so I believe entrepreneurs continue the
work of creation I like it I like it I
was just on another podcast and talking
about how entrepreneurs can solve all
the world’s problems yeah so I like it I
like that extension it’s good
like-mindedness I love ya that’s awesome
Eric keiko is writing in what are you
currently reading oh gosh i am currently
reading blockchain revolution blockchain
revolution have never heard of it what
is it and I’m trying to remember the
guys name Tapscott you know I can’t
remember Nate the names of people who
write books anywhere I think it’s doing
Dane times got have Scott yeah yeah
blockchain revolution and the reason why
I’ve you know I don’t know I forget
names of books because you know you
don’t look at the title anymore because
you’re reading it on a kindle and see ya
you know so anyway but yeah blockchain
revolution and man this is this is cool
stuff this is really cool stuff I I
think block chain is going to have an
impact on business you know it not
necessarily Bitcoin but block chain and
it’s gonna be quicker than we all expect
cool well he’s a fellow Canadian so I
didn’t promote them I must imma i mean
i’m looking at n they see a library
behind him there i’m a really slow
reader i do a lot more videos which is
why i love you too right now the door
i’m still reading onward by howard
schultz i really love that book love
Howard guy who led the business from
values and talks about how he came back
into the business and made it successful
against oh yeah interesting i’m i
recommend it but you got to kind of like
those kind of stories yeah yeah no
that’s good good stuff um area man Aria
min I’m an app developer and I have nine
apps and he’s wondering about how to
market them mmm well that’s probably
more for you I’m les a marketing guy
than I am a pricing guy purse aid but
might you know this the suggestion is is
first of all I think it’s something
along lines with what we were saying is
find out what is the or try to
understand what is the value of your app
right really understand what is it that
it does for some
I else’s organization or somebody in
particular person and how does it create
value for them how does it make their
life better and to me that’s that that
then becomes the focus of the marketing
effort is hey listen do you have this
problem and lighting it back again we
talked about Simon’s neck early but he
has does the great example of tivo &
Tebow’s marketing problem is that tivo
came to us and told us they had a
product that stop live TV would pause
live TV rewind it and memorize your
viewing habits and we were freaked out
by it instead of saying hey listen are
you a person who likes to take absolute
and total control of your life boy then
we have a product for you right and I I
think that that’s what you need to do is
try to find you know what is the what is
the why behind your product what does it
do that makes somebody’s life better not
the function but what does it do that
makes their life actually better and
focus on that cool j rise is correcting
me in that it’s Don Tapscott I said Dane
tapscott man i’m don tapscott yep ok get
a rise ah you know good it missed a
letter missed a letter um for this app
question I’d be wondering why do you
have nine apps like if you haven’t
figured out how to market one I would
really try to figure out how to market
that first one before going anywhere
yeah or group them together in a bundle
or something yeah like it’s hard enough
to run a business with one product let a
little nine products and if it’s not
taking off and they’re not successful
then maybe you need to kill off some of
the other apps but if not like I would I
would stop creating more new apps and
start thinking about how do I make like
pink the one of the line that you love
the most it has the biggest potential
impact and go build that thing to be
amazing yeah audience right see your
people using it like a people coming
back do they look at your appt I don’t
know what your apps are all about but
are they using it on a regular basis
like if people are coming back and using
the app regularly then you’ve got a
potential hit if they open it up and
they use it once and it’s gone then
forget about it so then once you have
some usage what are they like what
new features can you add in that one app
insanely good instead of creating
another just okay app that you worried
about marketing I would try to get as
close to my users as possible maybe you
get something in the in the in the in
the app itself that says hey I’d love to
get your feedback I’ll give you a
twenty-dollar starbucks gift card or
something and get on the phone with them
and understand how they’re using it what
they like about it why they downloaded
it is it to their expectations or not
get as close to the users as possible to
learn how to make it better and your
best market is going to be them like
them using it kinda lino friends about
it so if they’re not insanely in love
with the application itself then all the
market in the world isn’t going to save
you you need to create a great product
so that’d be my advice the next shot is
asking what’s your favorite movie and
why should i watch it the next shot
what’s my favorite movie and I hit why
should the next shot watch it why should
the next round watch my favorite movie
oh man I have lots of favorite movies um
let me let me just throw one you like
just completely random off the wall that
I know probably not a lot of people have
even heard of and then it is movie
called the lives of others and it is a
it’s it now this this makes it even
harder to watch right because it’s in
German and you got to read the subtitles
ok but it is probably one of the best
movies that i’ve ever seen for an
understanding of what it must have been
like to live under Soviet style
communism because it’s it the movies
about an East German Stasi officer who’s
spying on a playwright and the you know
the fact that they they bug up his
apartment and all of this stuff and it
says it’s just a wonderfully fantastic
story and it’s it’s just a just a great
movie now if I want to go something more
traditional and to tell you why I’m a
big big Orson Welles fan from way back
so we wat watch sit watch Citizen Kane
and if you want to watch a second movie
watch Citizen Kane twice the
ah I love it uh my favorite movie of all
time is Seabiscuit super busy a movie
but I’ve seen it at least 20 times it’s
the underdog story it’s an underdog
horse that nobody thought would win and
I’m sake that’s too big and an owner
that you know has failed in business and
a trainer who nobody believes anymore
like all these people and the horse that
everybody is counted out and somehow
they manage to all come together in and
win and be like one of the greatest race
horses of all time if I’m not mistaken
the director of that movie has a new
film coming out I just it was on CBS
this morning and in the you in the US
has a Sunday morning Charles Osgood and
there’s a there was a snippet and I
remember the inner than interview and it
was just happen to see that Seabiscuit’s
the Huey so he’s coming out with a new
movie I can’t remember the name of it
though Oh anyway cool i’ll check it out
i love the movie um it’s just it screams
believe it’s a it does ah nothing really
do with business but it just I love it
as to why you should watch it I don’t
know I’m not in the business of
convincing people to do things oh that
sounded Christine go watch it if it
didn’t don’t I don’t care uh but i like
it it’s a great movie um Dennis Wagner
how does he I’m assuming you meant it’s
a good too close how does he attempt the
clothes and nearly impossible clothes I
want to see if he has any tools in the
box that I can use okay um so look if
there’s no and this is like a pricing
mantra that I have there is no right way
to price the wrong customer so just as a
derivation of that there’s no right way
to close a wrong customer so to me it’s
more about customer selection is this is
this a customer that really belongs in
your portfolio and you know and that’s
another analogy like us think of think
of your customer base is a portfolio you
know you want high-risk low-risk you
want you know some that are difficult to
work with some that are not so difficult
because they give you a challenge
sometimes that’s one thing but i’ll give
you my 11 of the
that the tips if you will when you have
someone who’s resistant or seems to be
resistant around having a conversation
with you and empathy and they just want
a price right so here’s here’s is three
words ready it’s you ask them what’s my
budget for that what’s my budget don’t
at don’t say what’s your budget because
their budget is always zero right so but
when you ask them what’s my budget it’s
a really interesting way of of
positioning it and saying it really in a
way what’s this worth to you right
because it first of all it’s it’s it
says hey there’s going to be a price
that’s associated with this and I it
also says I think I can solve your
problem I just don’t know how much that
I can spend to solve your problem so
what’s my budget that would be something
I would try and it doesn’t always work
by the way does not i will admit it’s
not a it’s not it’s not a panacea so but
give it a shot my approach is maybe
that’s why he asked you but uh huh I
have no interest in closing the nearly
impossible like yeah if you don’t love
what I’m about I don’t want to talk to
you like we are not meant to do business
together I would rather spend my time
with someone who sees the value what I’m
doing I don’t try to convince people of
anything yeah so I turn away like if
somebody was only interested in my price
then we probably wouldn’t have a very
long conversation and that might confuse
them like I would tell them I’m no
interesting convincing you to work with
me yeah yeah yeah and I’m gonna put a
caveat on it and front up front yeah I
agree some people uh then respect that
and get curious and want to find out
more yeah and some people think I’m a
total crazy business person like that
doesn’t make any sense i M will not well
together if I need to convince you but
why I’m why I can help you my friend Rob
Johnson calls it the break-up close
right it’s not it’s not you honey it’s
me I don’t think it’s back to the one of
the first questions about providing
value to the market yeah like
people are coming to me because it
provided value to the market and so they
need to their already pre-sold if you’re
not pre-sold on me then I’m not gonna
sell you I have no interest like I’d
rather spend my time on people who are
better fits for me so I don’t know if
that help Dennis you know when I listen
to ed I’m on that one but know what I
actually thought the same thing I said
listen if it’s not the right customer
but then I’d you know you know then I
give them a something that might might
if you think it might be worth salvaging
right if you think it might be worth
salvaging try what’s my budget I like it
um freshlook co uh how do you know when
you’ve hit how do you know when you have
a hit product their idea fresh look how
do you know when you have a hit product
or idea you have boatloads of people who
buy it uh yeah pretty sweet uh for me
how would I answer this i would say
often i love it ah i think the challenge
becomes you know you’re creating
something and you haven’t released it
yet or you’ve released a version that
isn’t quite ready yet and so happy how
do you know if you should kill it or
keep going with it because obviously if
you release it you release an app and it
takes off great you had a hit idea work
right when you’re at the point where you
just have an idea and you haven’t
executed against it or you’ve started
and you haven’t gotten positive results
then what do you do with it and i think
for me it’s does this thing make me come
alive like am I am I still super
passionate point a lot more time energy
into making this better or am I done is
like oh that was a test and I don’t want
to do it anymore you know like I tried
rock climbing I didn’t like it so I’m
not going back anymore but was curious
have to try it but I’m not going to do
any more because gonna like it right you
tried salsa dance and I fell in love
with it I’ve been doing it for over a
decade you know so I’m going to keep
going at it so same thing with your
business if you’re trying something
that’s an interest cool if it’s not
working then are you still interested in
if you still have that passion I love to
try to make it better if you do there’s
a way to make it work if you lose an
interest
then kill it move on to something else
heaven can you talk about how to
determine your price point / marketplace
value for music artists or any art Wow
are I mean art is art is always a tough
one because it’s you know it’s it’s the
ultimate proof that value is subjective
right you know if I have a
seven-year-old daughter and there’s a
picture right now hanging on on a
refrigerator that she did the first day
in kindergarten two years ago and you
know isn’t blue highlighter or whatever
that she drew this and i doubt i could
get anyone to buy it buy it for a
million dollars even if I told him it
was a caracal s original right but but
if the house was burning down and I got
everybody out of the house my wife and
kids out of the house and I was passing
by the refrigerator i would i would
probably grab the picture right and and
why is that well because it’s it’s
valuable to me you know our art is real
is really hard i think is what i would
say this and maybe this is a direct
answer to the question but it’s don’t
don’t price it by how long it takes you
to do right because that that doesn’t
matter doesn’t matter the buyer what
Matt what matters is is is there so
their subjectivity of it and you know
you just got to find the right person
who likes your likes your stuff I don’t
know that you probably have something
better because that’s that’s a really
hard one I think for artists especially
it really comes down how much you
believe you’re worth I think you have to
have I think entrepreneurs in general
underpriced themselves just as a
generating we don’t charge enough for
our services or box whatever we’re
selling we look at other competing
product and say well those guys are
better and we always even if we have a
price we’re so quick to discount it
right like you bought a price and
anything but I could give you a deal at
this fight like you’re so quick to
discount your price and I think it’s
especially true for the art community
going more meta I think all
entrepreneurs are artists not just
people who are you know Sam you’re
making paintings yeah and we tend to we
tend to worry about how people judge the
art that we’re creating and so that’s
why we discounted prices so much and if
you look at the artists who are making a
lot of money they believe in what
they’re doing like I worth this much and
I look at people that I’ve hired to
create stuff for me I never give push
back on the price I went see what they
can create so I will you know for my
video editor right what she’s creating
for me is art I need somebody to take
the material i’m giving them and make it
beautiful right it’s an art project and
when I hired I hired 10 to 15 people on
a trial project and give them five hours
go make your art give me something
amazing and I hire people who are from
minimum wage up to a lot more than
minimum wage and I’m okay hiring the
person who is charging more but I want
to see a superior result sure I like
that process to believe in what they’re
doing that has to turn in an amazing
result and so I didn’t end up hiring the
cheapest person because I subjectively
liked the art of the person who charged
more but I never I never beat them down
on price like I’m looking for what stub
what do I resonate most with and that’s
the person i’m going to hire not the
price is never an option but it’s not
the first option it all becomes it’s
only the the default option when people
can’t tell the difference between your
products if I can’t tell the difference
from what you’re selling then I’m going
to beat you down on price all day long
like pay this guy selling it for ten
dollars cheaper than yours well it’s not
the same thing right like if I can’t
understand the difference and so your
confidence your belief in yourself your
belief in what you can create plays a
huge role in how you end up pricing
yourself because if you say hey I’ll
record a song for you it’ll cost five
hundred dollars like you got to believe
it’s worth having dollars somebody else
might charge fifty thousand dollars and
it’s got to be worth fifty thousand
dollars to write like obviously budgets
do come into play not everybody can
or different price points but you have
to be able to go and walk in believing
that hey I can provide fifty dollars or
fifty thousand dollars for five hundred
dollars worth of value to my client
who’s hiring me yeah self-esteem is such
a critical issue Israel’s writing in I
want to start a business I have many
ideas I don’t know how to lift it to get
it from pen and paper to something solid
well I think that goes back to one of
the things that you mentioned is which
which one are you most passionate about
right an employee I guess with Jim
Collins called the Hedgehog principle
which is you know the intersection of
three questions what are you passionate
about passionate about what can you do
well or be best in the world at and what
drives your economic engine and those
would be the three questions that i
would ask and and try to come to the
conclusion whatever they whatever the
the best answer to all three of those is
so the Venn diagram if you drew that out
as three circles what and and then try
to develop what what columns called your
be hack write your big hairy audacious
goal about that particular business so
that I would I would lean toward the one
at your most passionate about I love it
and I think if you’re having trouble
starting remember that there’s no one
place to start like there’s no one
magical step yeah i’ll start with there
there’s a million places to start just
start like do something today right lock
out an hour a day half an hour a day
every single day and just do something
and and you’ll be all over the place at
the start but you’ll eventually find
your path so whether it’s doing research
whether it’s trying to talk to potential
customer whether it’s trying to get into
the media whether it’s talking to
potential partners or trying to find
different suppliers whatever it is start
like spend time every single day on your
business and you’ll eventually find your
path sounds like I just do it yeah well
it’s truly but keeping the framework
that I’d suggested right obviously like
you’re picking a thing that you’re
really passionate about great you know
pick that list from the from your you
have the ideas on paper okay Ailee
what’s what’s the one you want to do the
most you have the most love for great
okay now what do you do about it like I
know something today there’s no one play
to start I think too many people get
hung up they see it as big impossible
task to launch a business from an idea
and they don’t realize that like you
don’t just jump from here to here you
just it’s just a series of tiny steps
that you just consistently take I need
to look back and it looks like this big
step forward but i would venture to say
what would you think about this Evan
that the number of successful businesses
that have been launched on a 17-page MBA
business plan art is at or near zero
right right it’s true and I was that guy
who made a business plan for my business
and then as soon as as soon as we
started marketing we realize that a lot
of the assumptions were just wrong now
that doesn’t mean you don’t plan at all
just people over planners and you plan
so much that you don’t do and then the
over doers who just do crazy things
never playing we’re like whatever your
natural tendency is you want to involve
a little bit of the other side just so
that you get that success so it sounds
like you’re an over planner uh Israel so
a little more little less pine a little
more just doing and don’t worry like
perfectionism gets in the way there is
no perfect plan just start yeah eight
percent eighty percent then move you can
make course corrections to the last
twenty percent cool well we got a lot of
great feedback Network I know we’re over
time but we’re at the 45 minute mark
that’s the magic mark for your pot head
is Ray I know get you play the whole
thing now whole audio now and send it
out of it um people writing in this is
very helpful thank you add and Evan
great chat going on here at and Evan I
like Ed’s vibe so there you go I got a
good vibe going on apparently I like to
UM cool I mean I know you gotta run
thank you for spending extra time with
us here today for people who want to
learn more about what you’re all about I
linked it up again in this code but
quick like final words that you want to
give the audience well yeah two quick
quick things first of all you know I
work for a company called sage so sage
calm is the place to go for that state
summit if you’re interested in coming to
the event but I do do a radio show if
you’re interested in the topics that I
talked about today because we’re pricing
forever and that is called the soul of
enterprise the soul of enterprise com so
please check out the
oh I’m just writing that down to make
sure I have it in the description to the
soul of enterprise nice calm cool i’ll
link it up thank you thanks watching
thank all right so much continue to
believe everyone and we’ll see you soon
peace out
Please follow and like us: