alright we’re live welcome everybody to
another YouTube hangout super excited to
have a special guest with me a fellow
youtuber which is awesome Aaron Rutten
Aaron welcome aboard hey Evan hello
everybody so often on these YouTube
hangers that I do I’m their first
hangout I have to help them crack their
their hangout virginity so it’s great to
have someone who’s been dead before
knows what he’s talking about so today
we’re going to be talking about how can
you make a profit off of your creative
passion and Aaron is an artist and has
been making a successful career out of
for himself as a popular YouTube channel
and we’re both going to share our tips
of advice and Aaron maybe for as a
little bit of context if you want to
provide some background on yourself to
the people who are watching that’d be
great sure as I’ve been mentioned I have
a youtube channel where I teach people
how to create art on a computer using a
welcome tablet and software like corel
painter but it also extends into me
talking about my career as an artist how
I got to that point and giving people
tips on either how to get into digital
art or if they’re already into it how
they can build their skills and develop
their artistic skills into maybe a
business or just you know when learn a
few new things or just watch somebody
paint just for the fun of it I am a
Corel Painter master which means that i
work with corel directly with their
software to help improve it as a beta
tester and then as being like it in a
way I’m like kind of endorsed by corel
so that’s kind of cool I also teach art
lessons in person here in Seattle and
online cool I didn’t know you did in
person lessons like someone cuz battle
you have to teach me some art we’ll do a
trade you teach me how to dance and I’ll
teach you how to draw hopia challenge i
like that i don’t think i’ve ever used
caramba form I dabbled in Photoshop but
that’s the limit for me yeah and then
for those are you watching I’ve left a
link to Aaron’s youtube channel below
and I’m actually curious about where you
came with the name it’s so its anatomy
of rock the
right yeah that’s that that’s one of
those in retrospect moments that I put
that up right put that as my username
before I even imagine having youtube
channel so you know I probably should
have made a new channel but I kind of
just was testing it at the time and then
the channel took off so I was kind of
stuck with that name the anatomy of rock
is a poem written by Jim Morrison so and
then you could yeah very obscure well
because then it reads kind of I mean I
guess it reads weird either way because
it’s really long but yeah what I’m glad
at least I got it shortened to
youtube.com slash Aaron Rutten you can
put that in and it takes you to the same
place so oh cool ok cool ok so let’s
let’s talk about how creative
professionals and artists can turn their
passion into a business I think it’s you
know I have a soft spot in my heart for
artists because you know they’re
creating such amazing things that make
people feel that you know sometimes
you’re going through the worst day in
your life and you put on a song or you
look at a painting and that can help you
know brighten your day or maybe even
save your life and yet so many artists
are just really bad at promoting
themselves and building a business what
are some of the high-level things that
you see that can really help turn the
tide for a lot of these people I think
really just getting out there and for
one putting yourself out there because
it’s really easy to make art for
yourself and keep it and you know feel
really feel like you’ve really
accomplished something by making really
elaborate pieces of art that take you a
long time to make but if you’re not
sharing it with people you’re not giving
people an opportunity to appreciate it
or purchase it or you know hire you for
other things you’re kind of missing out
on that so really the easiest thing you
can do is use social media have a
facebook account have a twitter account
have a LinkedIn profile and just use all
of these things in different ways to
share your work youtube for me was
especially good because you know i was
sharing stuff on
on Facebook for quite a while but as
soon as I started making these YouTube
videos about drawing and painting then I
was getting tons and tons and tons of
views and so do you know don’t be afraid
to break that mold of the traditional
artist don’t everybody has this vision
of an artist like it’s a guy with a
curly mustache and an easel and a little
beret and he’s going from gallery to
gallery peddling his wares they didn’t
have internet back then and things have
changed quite a bit there’s so much
competition though that you you need to
be one step ahead of everybody else and
a good a good and quick and easy
effective way to do that is to utilize
social media like Facebook and YouTube
and all that stuff so what about the
artist who would say you know I’m an
introvert I don’t want to be on camera
ah you know right so like how do you get
over that right how do you how did you
get over at somebody is afraid of how
people will judge them and I’m not a
people person and I can’t imagine ever
making a video how do you get past that
discomfort how do you learn how to swim
you know or if you already know how to
swim you know what do you do your you
know the pools going to be cold but you
just you at some point just have to jump
and once you jump you’re on that
trajectory you’re going to go in the
pool you know it’s going to be a little
uncomfortable at first but then you’re
going to surface and everything will be
fine and you’ll be swimming and you know
that that’s kind of my analogies you
just have to do it a lot of artists are
introverts I you know I can be an
introvert and an extrovert and I’m not
exactly the most comfortable person on
camera at all times but I’ve worked my
way up from that you know my first
videos I was speaking as if there was
nobody else in the room and nobody was
going to watch the video and it was
horrible and really monotone and having
watched those videos I went ha it’s so
bad and you know each time I see
something like that that I don’t like in
my videos or I don’t like about myself I
use that as an opportunity to improve
upon that and you know you make you make
progress that way so a lot of people
would you know if they’ve now decided
I’m gonna take the plunge and I’m going
to make a youtube video because Aaron
told me to I’m diving in you know they
make the video and then they look back
on it
and and they never publish it right I
know a ton of artists who and people who
just want to get on youtube in general
and they they self criticize so much to
the point where they don’t even press
publish on it because they hate how they
look they hate how they sound they feel
they weren’t engaging enough is it just
what is it just press publish is it you
know how do you get past that fear I
think I think everybody’s their own
worst critic you know and everyone else
in this world I mean there’s there’s so
many people you know there’s what six
billion people in this world or so the
at least a very good chunk of people are
going to appreciate your work because
people appreciate everything even things
that you don’t enjoy yourself there’s a
large number of people that like that so
why not put yourself out there because
you really be surprised like you might
put up a YouTube video and all of a
sudden you get a hundred views or a
thousand views or 10,000 views or
something or you get somebody from
Sweden or somebody from Japan or
somebody you know from from countries
all around the world commenting on your
videos and saying this video inspired me
or this video helped me that’s how you
build your confidence you have to take
that step you have to put yourself out
there and when you do put yourself out
there you’re going to get more positive
feedback than negative feedback and
especially in the beginning a lot of
people are going to be really supportive
it’s not until maybe later that people
will be a little more critical of you
still the haters count yeah so yeah III
echo that when I first got started on
YouTube uh you know every single comment
was gold for me even now you know wake
up in the morning and one of the first
things I do is check my youtube comments
I can’t reply to all them that come in
but it makes me feel good it makes me
feel like what I’m doing is helping
people but I think especially as if
you’re an artist you’re creating
something that may take you three months
to finish it’s easy to get discouraged
in that process where if you see you get
that little like daily injection of of
happiness knowing that what you’re
creating is having a positive impact on
somebody’s life makes you feel a lot
more optimistic more positive more
means you want to keep going like if I
wasn’t getting in the comments i was in
my channel i probably would have stopped
yeah uh and now mad at you know 150,000
almost subscribers and so it’s it could
be I think there’s a lot of fear that I
can hold you back that you might get
haters and critical people and people
don’t realize the positive side that hey
these guys can keep you motivated and
make you want to keep going yeah
definitely we have a question from der
Mueller Chris people often come up with
many ideas but how do you guys decide
between ideas to create something so you
have lots of different ideas how do you
decide which one to go with oh that’s
our question um I think writing down all
of your ideas is a good place to start
and then trying to organize or
prioritize them i was using Evernote for
this also kind of Google Calendar all
put I’ll put up some ideas like maybe
these are things that I might want to
work on throughout the month and of
course they’ll move around but lately
I’ve been merging my Evernote ideas into
Trello and treble is kind of nice it’s a
free web application you can make these
little notes and then you can change the
the order of them and you can make
different category so in doing that you
can really narrow things down also from
like a YouTube point of view if I want
to know what video to put up I can look
at the videos that I’ve put up that are
really popular and kind of extrapolate
that maybe if I put up something similar
to that people will watch that as well
or I’ve even put up polls and I’ve just
asked people you know what do you want
to see this this or this you know and so
that’s a good way to kind of narrow it
down hello this is second time uh this
week that somebody’s recommended Trello
so I feel like I have to look at was it
a Tim Schmoyer yeah yeah that’s why I
heard it from oh you heard from tim too
that’s hello that’s interesting so I am
a check that out um in terms of you know
creating deciding which project to start
with one I am a fan of writing down
ideas too especially for someone like me
who has a bad memory if I don’t write it
down it’s gone so i’ll usually email
myself the idea and then if i’m going to
act on it i’ll act on it right away when
i get to my
email or I’ll save with Evernote file
for later but in terms of figuring out
then which idea to go with honestly uh
the best advice I would have is to
follow your flow you know art is is
something that comes from the heart not
the head you’ve got to love what you do
you’ve got a you’ve got to be into it if
you’re creating something just trying to
sell it it’s not going to be your best
work it’s got to be something that you
really feel that you can inject yourself
into and so I’d be looking at that list
and saying which one I’m most excited by
which one makes me come alive which one
am I most curious about and then start
down that path and the second that I
lose interest in it the second that I’ve
you know it feels like work or I’m not
as passionate about anymore I would move
on to something else and dive into
something that I am excited about again
and that that’s kind of that might be a
risky strategy but for me if your heart
isn’t into it and you’re creating
something creative it’s really hard it’s
hard to be creative when you are not
passionate about what you’re doing and
so you know some of the advice might be
hey weighed the pros and cons and see
you know which one makes the most
logical sense we’re really what you want
to do is get out of your head that big
decision should be with the heart small
ones with the head always it’s it’s
really taking the path at least
resistance you know I do that a lot
especially with my google calendar i’ll
i’ll suggest things that maybe i’ll do
on a certain day and then you know kind
of pick and choose light like out of
three to five different things what do I
feel more like doing and I’ll pick the
easy ones and I’ll knock those up first
and if I have to move the harder one to
a different day you know maybe I move
that to a day where there’s something
even more difficult and keeps everything
kind of in perspective if you kind of
knock out tasks that way cool Philip
running in hey guys many greetings from
germany hey Philip thanks for letting
Jeff the consummate truth in life is
that we alter our destiny be altering
our thoughts the mind is our most
crucial asset just like you said we
often take ourselves out of the game by
over sink thinking things over thinking
things so so
dealing with an artist whose
overthinking I feel it can be hard
because you may not have somebody in
your life to push you to be greater you
know you don’t have friends who are
artists you don’t have family whose
artist your this crazy chicken off doing
something and other people don’t
understand how do you combat that
tendency to want to overthink and
overanalyze and try to come with the
perfect thing and then you end up doing
nothing yeah that’s that’s a very
difficult challenge I mean I go through
that almost every day I spend a lot of
time thinking about what to do and I
realize I I see that as a negative thing
and sometimes as a positive thing
because that time spent thinking it
gives me ideas you know I might spend
ninety percent of time thinking about
something and spinning my wheels but
that ten percent of the time where I
have an idea that’s where that idea
comes about so I think you know you
don’t want to under think and you don’t
want to overthink sometimes you just
have to just act on instinct you just
have to kind of do it you know you have
to be a little more impulsive and trust
your instincts the other thing that
really helps me is I try to surround
myself with ideas that forced me to
think bigger and out of my usual comfort
zone it’s why i started the NSO series
on my channel where it’s a morning idea
from a successful entrepreneur that i
can learn from and try to try to be like
and try to model their success I think
we’re we’re definitely a product of our
environment and you take on the habits
and beliefs of the people closest around
you and so if you don’t have anybody in
your social circle who sees bigger
things and greater things and huge
opportunities and is a you know is a
dreamer then you can surround yourself
with that by reading books by watching
videos by you know watch my channel
watching errands channel having somebody
who’s kind of gone through it and done
it and just absorbing a little bit of
their wisdom and thought process can
help you stay focused and and get back
to doing instead of just being over
thinking and critical yeah there’s a lot
of there’s a lot of people to model I
mean I’ve watched a lot of documentaries
about Picasso and Salvador Dali and
andy warhol and you know you can you can
really kind of imagine you know what it
would be like to be successful from
seeing all their successes but on the
other hand if you are kind of alone in
this don’t be afraid to do your own
thing you know because you don’t
necessarily have to have a role model a
lot of people are very avant-garde and
they just they just do what they do and
they just put it out there and people
like it and they become artists that way
without you know going into it with the
expectation of being an artist or being
a successful artist how much do you feel
confidence plays a factor you mentioned
dolly yeah Salvador Dali and I remember
hearing about how he quit school because
he didn’t feel like anybody at the
school was worthy to judge his art yeah
he left like this super prestigious
Spanish university because nobody there
was good enough the judge his art so
obviously somebody was an insane amount
of confidence in what he’s doing how
much do you feel confidence is a factor
in helping entrepreneurs and artists
believe in themselves and become
successful in their career you have to
have some confidence but you know I mean
everybody kind of battles with that I
think I think confidence comes with
reward and reward comes with with risk
you know you put yourself out there you
see what happens you’re going to find
that you’re going to get a reward if you
put yourself out there and as those
rewards build up you start to feel more
and more confident and so it’s really
something that if you’re lacking in
confidence all you can really do is just
keep trying and just keep trying to
build your confidence you know it’s it
comes with experience I think yeah I
mean I would tend to agree i think i
think about the first time i made a
youtube video i was super nervous the
first time I did a google hangout I was
super nervous first I went on stage to
present something I was super nervous
and then every time you do it you get a
little bit less nervous and less
numerous less nervous you believe more
in your in your skills and what you can
do whether that confidence translates
into arrogance at some point is
interesting thought but I think you know
it’s just getting started like you said
like jump in it’s getting started you do
it once that’s a big scary step and then
every other step after is a little bit
less scary less scary less scary so
building momentum yeah um okay so
talking about promoting yourself and
building a business as a creative as an
artist say so you know I’ve got a statue
here of Guan Yu sama this is bronze if
I’m if I’m a bronze artist and I make
statues I don’t know how long something
that would take what’s what’s my you
know what’s my marketing strategy I
liked it I liked to sit in my workshop
and make bronze Kuan Yew statues how do
I get more sales and make a profit from
this idea I think don’t look at it like
you want you know the end result is the
sale you know here’s here’s what I’ve
created here’s the portfolio on my
website I think if you want to really
get people interested in it make some
YouTube videos or or have some sort of
social media where you show your process
and you can say you know here’s what I
start with I start with a big hunk of
bronze or you know I have to melt it
down and you know rather than just one
video of your process maybe make it a
weekly thing where you show each week
what you’ve done because I’m guessing
something like that probably takes quite
a bit of time that way you’re capturing
people who are you know every level of
enthusiasts for for sculpture there’s
people who want to learn how to do it
there’s people who just want to
appreciate it and then there’s the
people who want to buy it I think that
way you can kind of capture all of those
things together I love it Tommy’s
running in hello from Argentina hey
Tommy Tommy Michaels running with a
question hey I just started learning
about game design it’s something I’m
really interested in would i be better
focusing on improving my skill level
first and then making a profit of it or
vice versa I think do it at the same
time because you can build your skill
while while making profit you know I
wouldn’t I wouldn’t go into it like I’m
going to charge top dollar as if I’m a
college graduate in this field you know
didn’t give me a ton of money i mean you
might have to kind of start out a little
bit lower
and work your way up if you don’t really
want to worry about doing it for profit
do pro bono work if it’s for a good
cause you know do work for your friends
um if your friends are indie game
developers or just create portfolio
examples for yourself make up your own
game assets for a fictional game yeah i
think you know Michael think in all
honesty it’s gonna be hard for you to
make a profit if you don’t have skill
right I mean money comes from providing
value can you provide value if you don’t
have any skill probably not so I’d be
looking at I would probably branch other
than two things 1i would i would start
on the side do my own thing whatever
game are interested in wherever I want
to you know if it’s a RPG that I’m into
or I’m going to build the next league of
legends or whatever it is just start
building it and then too I would I would
try to model and go work for a company
that I want to be like in 10 years right
this is a hard subject to go to
university for right there are some
courses that have game design there but
it the guys who are really making the
innovations the real learning will come
from working with a fun young company
that is doing big things can you go work
for Riot Games and squeeze out knowledge
from them that would be my advice I
would try to find a company that I want
to be like in five years maybe rides too
big and get as close to the founder as
possible take out as many projects as
possible learn their processes you’re
basically getting paid to learn if you
go out and only do your own thing you’re
going to make a lot of mistakes while
losing money doing it we’re here you can
get paid to make those mistakes and then
at the same time start your business on
the side with those four friends whether
it’s demo where there’s pro bono for
charities as Aaron was talking about I
would run those two parallel paths but i
did in the back of my mind to be
thinking hey that if i’m trying to
create a game if you want to make profit
it’s going to come from making a game
the people out you want to play and so
you know that’s the value that you’re
provided in creating can you do that if
you don’t have skill probably not I’m
open to seeing what you can deliver but
if you want to make a game and you have
no idea about game design you’re not a
programmer it’s going to be really
really hard and so you want to get the
skill experience knowledge to then be
able to pour into the game that can
create something super valuable gravel
bach mechanic is talking about our
shirts of mine with the quote there’s a
long quote but I like this shirt what’s
on your shirt mine is a digital
paintbrush and it’s painting red green
and blue pixels which is RGB for a
monitor color so it’s a shirt that I
have available on spreadshirt I like it
the when you normally speak in the
bottom is little cut-offs you can’t see
this a pink breast so that’s cool i was
curious yeah i was trying to keep it all
in the frame but i think my torso is too
long gonna move back back in um cool PR
fashion beauty hello from London zeno
rice game design isn’t any good anyway
hey Zeno don’t hate on League of Legends
friend okay I know you’re loyal fan of
the channel but like here um cool so
somebody who’s getting started on
YouTube you know you’re recommending hey
i’m doing a bronze statue you should you
should do the behind the scenes of what
i’m going to do to make that statue so
great i made my first video you know I
look at am NOT a big fan of it you know
I feel like I’m awkward but Aaron says
publish it so I’m going to publish it
great now what do i do how do I get
people to see that video how do I
promoted or is it just creating more
videos and more videos and more videos I
think it’s both I mean you you want to
have more than one video obviously so
that if you know people have the
opportunity to subscribe they can see
this isn’t just one video on a channel
it’s going to be a series so you know
you would you would want at least have a
vision of some other projects that you
could show if it takes you a really long
time to complete one piece then you
could try to think of other ways to
branch out one of the ways that i have
done that is i have my vlogs where i
just talked about being an artist so you
know it takes me a long time to do a
really detailed painting tutorial but
these vlogs I
can just you know I could do multiple
shots of those per day so you could
branch out that’s that’s kind of one way
to approach it the other would be to
share it as much as possible and I kind
of mentioned that earlier through
Facebook and the other social media
channels if you don’t if you’re new to
these you’re probably not going to have
very many subscribers there either so
you could think about promoting locally
you know if you’re if you’re if there’s
certain events or conferences or art
shows that you could go to or if you’re
a sculptor you maybe you could put
things up in different places do you
like installation art and then have a
little you know maybe a little QR code
or something that people could scan that
takes takes them to your YouTube channel
there’s really a lot you can do although
the other thing I would suggest is to
play off trends and playoff people that
you look up to and respect as an example
there was a guy who was a pancake artist
you gotta may have seen like the pancake
videos now um and he did a pancake of me
because he liked my channel and so he
put me as a pancake as a tribute piece
and of course I had to share it right
like hey I just got turned into a
pancake this is awesome right there was
another guy at Pete who’s a pixel artist
and he’s mostly blind and he’s a he’s a
pixel artist which is cool in itself uh
and he created a pixel portrait of me
and sent that in and of course I wanted
to share that too and so if there’s
people that you look up to or if you
love like League of Legends and you
create fanart think about things that
you’re passionate about right don’t
don’t just do something because you
think it might hit you do because you
respect that person or you really love
that game or you want to you know create
something because of what happened in
Paris you know whatever you consume and
you love I would try to create art
around that as well if possible you know
you may not be able to make a bronze
statue of somebody but if you did and
you delivered it to some big youtuber
hey they might mention you in the video
and so
would try to look at creating some
tribute pieces as well again as long as
it’s kind of in line with your values
and what you believe in and you really
look up to and respect those people too
yeah have you have you done any trippy
pieces Aaron for youtubers specificity
buddy I mean like people you looked up
to or causes you believe I’ve done a
done portraits of Bob Ross Michael
McDonald I have to have to look and see
who else but yeah I’ve done a few
different portraits I’ve done portraits
of friends and family and things like
that so cool it’d be fun to do a YouTube
portrait though I thought about that
cool who yeah i mean if you found
somebody that you looked up to on
youtube where you consume their videos
you love what they’re talking about um
that way i feel it’s more it’s genuine
right like you’re getting a lot of value
from their channel it’s all free you
know and here’s something my little way
of giving back in that email that you
write to them you know they’ll feel the
love of someone who is a subscriber on
their channel versus somebody who’s just
trying to get some exposure yeah Oh
Michael writing in Thank You Evan and
Aaron for the advice no problem Michael
jobs Mohammed writing in hello from
Morocco hello jobs yeah can you make
money just by providing ideas to people
can you make money just by providing
ideas to people you know that’s I guess
that gets into consultation which I do
and people have me people have me over
all the time to you know just evaluate a
creative project let’s say a youtube
video that someone else is making you
know they’ll say does this make sense
should i put the annotations here and so
on i provide art critiques or if i have
a student you know in a way I’m kind of
I’m teaching them and so in a way yes
i’m selling them information so there
are lots of ways to do that yeah i think
you have to you think about the
execution because the idea alone isn’t
valuable unless you have a patent like
if you go up to a big company say hey I
have an idea for you to double your
business
well they’re just going to take that
idea and do it themselves unless you
have a patent on that idea where the
value comes in beyond just the idea is
the execution so you know you go to Erin
and say hey Erin I’m i want to make a
video to showcase my art great he can
walk you through through a coaching
program or through consulting he’s
helping you execute so that’s the value
wide so it’s not just his idea and what
you can do it’s him walking you through
step-by-step how to actually do it so I
don’t know what kind of ideas that
you’re trying to sell but the greater
value is going to be and not just
selling the idea but helping me reach my
goal right my goal is to have a popular
YouTube video Aaron knows the 10 steps I
need to go through and he walks me
through one tells me how to do it so as
I would be looking at and your end if
it’s just pure idea get a patent and see
who might be able to buy it or license
it otherwise it’s how can I move that
idea forward into actually delivering a
result yeah if if you had the capability
to make a prototype if it’s something
simple enough you could start a
Kickstarter IndieGoGo and then at least
you have a documented you know I don’t
know if that’s you still have to have a
patent but at least you’re kind of
moving it forward beyond just being an
idea because you know like Evan said
people can just take your idea and then
it’s their idea so yeah now i’m curious
how often are you posting different
kinds of videos what what are the what
kinds of videos are you posting and
what’s the frequency for people watching
my my formulas kind of changed it’s it’s
in a in a state of transition i was
posting for 26 videos a week and so i
was posting every monday tuesday
thursday friday and then you know maybe
a few random videos on the weekends but
then I’ve kind of changed that to now
i’m posting a new video every friday but
occasionally throughout the week there
might be some incidental videos but at
least one video every friday and and so
your main video is the how to write its
how to draw an eyeball it’s it’s how to
draw something it’s an instructional
video right yeah yeah if the the
specialty would be Corel Painter
specifically digital painting specific
and then it kind of branches off into a
lot of different things one of my more
popular series is called draw this and
basically I’ll just randomly generate a
word let’s say apple and then I’ll draw
an apple so a lot of times they’re
photorealistic and other times they’re
in different styles I have some series
on how to paint like certain artists if
you want to learn how to paint digital
you like Jackson Pollock and slaughtered
paint all over your canvas that’s come
as I mentioned before I have the vlogs
and then I have digital painting
outdoors which is a series where I paint
outside on my walk and Cintiq companion
which is kind of like a big beefy ipad
for for digital painting specifically
and so I’ll set that up on an easel and
I’ll do paintings of landscapes and
record the process so yeah those are
those are the main the main video so I’d
also have a lot of tablet reviews so I
review the hardware and the software
that I use cool and that also seems like
prime content to ask for requests on
like what do you want me to draw next
the end people can write in hey a
microphone or hey dream yeah yeah i bet
i’ve been doing those on live streams
where i’ll have a live stream and then
people can request you know drawing i’ve
also done like pictionary live streams
for actually got a dictionary from the
thrift store i used one and i just take
the little deck of cards and I’ll just
kind of go through them and draw the
draw the words so that’s cool I love
it’s fun cool cool well I know we’re
bumping up against the clock Thank You
Erin so much for for spending some time
thank you guys thank you have been
watching some great comments in the chat
again for people who may be tuned in
late or watch them to replay they want
to learn more about you what you’re all
up to where’s the best place to find you
you should go to youtube.com slash Aaron
Rutten or you could look up Aaron Rutten
on google and you’ll probably get a
hundred thousand different things that
I’ve put up my websites Aaron Rutten
calm and that’s really a hub for
everything you know if you’re interested
in art or you’re interested in learning
how to to get some creative tips i
actually have a featured playlist on my
youtube channel about
you know some advice that kind of
elaborates more on what we talked about
today so check that out I love it Thank
You Erin for the time thank you guys for
watching and thanks everybody thanks
Evan cheers
another YouTube hangout super excited to
have a special guest with me a fellow
youtuber which is awesome Aaron Rutten
Aaron welcome aboard hey Evan hello
everybody so often on these YouTube
hangers that I do I’m their first
hangout I have to help them crack their
their hangout virginity so it’s great to
have someone who’s been dead before
knows what he’s talking about so today
we’re going to be talking about how can
you make a profit off of your creative
passion and Aaron is an artist and has
been making a successful career out of
for himself as a popular YouTube channel
and we’re both going to share our tips
of advice and Aaron maybe for as a
little bit of context if you want to
provide some background on yourself to
the people who are watching that’d be
great sure as I’ve been mentioned I have
a youtube channel where I teach people
how to create art on a computer using a
welcome tablet and software like corel
painter but it also extends into me
talking about my career as an artist how
I got to that point and giving people
tips on either how to get into digital
art or if they’re already into it how
they can build their skills and develop
their artistic skills into maybe a
business or just you know when learn a
few new things or just watch somebody
paint just for the fun of it I am a
Corel Painter master which means that i
work with corel directly with their
software to help improve it as a beta
tester and then as being like it in a
way I’m like kind of endorsed by corel
so that’s kind of cool I also teach art
lessons in person here in Seattle and
online cool I didn’t know you did in
person lessons like someone cuz battle
you have to teach me some art we’ll do a
trade you teach me how to dance and I’ll
teach you how to draw hopia challenge i
like that i don’t think i’ve ever used
caramba form I dabbled in Photoshop but
that’s the limit for me yeah and then
for those are you watching I’ve left a
link to Aaron’s youtube channel below
and I’m actually curious about where you
came with the name it’s so its anatomy
of rock the
right yeah that’s that that’s one of
those in retrospect moments that I put
that up right put that as my username
before I even imagine having youtube
channel so you know I probably should
have made a new channel but I kind of
just was testing it at the time and then
the channel took off so I was kind of
stuck with that name the anatomy of rock
is a poem written by Jim Morrison so and
then you could yeah very obscure well
because then it reads kind of I mean I
guess it reads weird either way because
it’s really long but yeah what I’m glad
at least I got it shortened to
youtube.com slash Aaron Rutten you can
put that in and it takes you to the same
place so oh cool ok cool ok so let’s
let’s talk about how creative
professionals and artists can turn their
passion into a business I think it’s you
know I have a soft spot in my heart for
artists because you know they’re
creating such amazing things that make
people feel that you know sometimes
you’re going through the worst day in
your life and you put on a song or you
look at a painting and that can help you
know brighten your day or maybe even
save your life and yet so many artists
are just really bad at promoting
themselves and building a business what
are some of the high-level things that
you see that can really help turn the
tide for a lot of these people I think
really just getting out there and for
one putting yourself out there because
it’s really easy to make art for
yourself and keep it and you know feel
really feel like you’ve really
accomplished something by making really
elaborate pieces of art that take you a
long time to make but if you’re not
sharing it with people you’re not giving
people an opportunity to appreciate it
or purchase it or you know hire you for
other things you’re kind of missing out
on that so really the easiest thing you
can do is use social media have a
facebook account have a twitter account
have a LinkedIn profile and just use all
of these things in different ways to
share your work youtube for me was
especially good because you know i was
sharing stuff on
on Facebook for quite a while but as
soon as I started making these YouTube
videos about drawing and painting then I
was getting tons and tons and tons of
views and so do you know don’t be afraid
to break that mold of the traditional
artist don’t everybody has this vision
of an artist like it’s a guy with a
curly mustache and an easel and a little
beret and he’s going from gallery to
gallery peddling his wares they didn’t
have internet back then and things have
changed quite a bit there’s so much
competition though that you you need to
be one step ahead of everybody else and
a good a good and quick and easy
effective way to do that is to utilize
social media like Facebook and YouTube
and all that stuff so what about the
artist who would say you know I’m an
introvert I don’t want to be on camera
ah you know right so like how do you get
over that right how do you how did you
get over at somebody is afraid of how
people will judge them and I’m not a
people person and I can’t imagine ever
making a video how do you get past that
discomfort how do you learn how to swim
you know or if you already know how to
swim you know what do you do your you
know the pools going to be cold but you
just you at some point just have to jump
and once you jump you’re on that
trajectory you’re going to go in the
pool you know it’s going to be a little
uncomfortable at first but then you’re
going to surface and everything will be
fine and you’ll be swimming and you know
that that’s kind of my analogies you
just have to do it a lot of artists are
introverts I you know I can be an
introvert and an extrovert and I’m not
exactly the most comfortable person on
camera at all times but I’ve worked my
way up from that you know my first
videos I was speaking as if there was
nobody else in the room and nobody was
going to watch the video and it was
horrible and really monotone and having
watched those videos I went ha it’s so
bad and you know each time I see
something like that that I don’t like in
my videos or I don’t like about myself I
use that as an opportunity to improve
upon that and you know you make you make
progress that way so a lot of people
would you know if they’ve now decided
I’m gonna take the plunge and I’m going
to make a youtube video because Aaron
told me to I’m diving in you know they
make the video and then they look back
on it
and and they never publish it right I
know a ton of artists who and people who
just want to get on youtube in general
and they they self criticize so much to
the point where they don’t even press
publish on it because they hate how they
look they hate how they sound they feel
they weren’t engaging enough is it just
what is it just press publish is it you
know how do you get past that fear I
think I think everybody’s their own
worst critic you know and everyone else
in this world I mean there’s there’s so
many people you know there’s what six
billion people in this world or so the
at least a very good chunk of people are
going to appreciate your work because
people appreciate everything even things
that you don’t enjoy yourself there’s a
large number of people that like that so
why not put yourself out there because
you really be surprised like you might
put up a YouTube video and all of a
sudden you get a hundred views or a
thousand views or 10,000 views or
something or you get somebody from
Sweden or somebody from Japan or
somebody you know from from countries
all around the world commenting on your
videos and saying this video inspired me
or this video helped me that’s how you
build your confidence you have to take
that step you have to put yourself out
there and when you do put yourself out
there you’re going to get more positive
feedback than negative feedback and
especially in the beginning a lot of
people are going to be really supportive
it’s not until maybe later that people
will be a little more critical of you
still the haters count yeah so yeah III
echo that when I first got started on
YouTube uh you know every single comment
was gold for me even now you know wake
up in the morning and one of the first
things I do is check my youtube comments
I can’t reply to all them that come in
but it makes me feel good it makes me
feel like what I’m doing is helping
people but I think especially as if
you’re an artist you’re creating
something that may take you three months
to finish it’s easy to get discouraged
in that process where if you see you get
that little like daily injection of of
happiness knowing that what you’re
creating is having a positive impact on
somebody’s life makes you feel a lot
more optimistic more positive more
means you want to keep going like if I
wasn’t getting in the comments i was in
my channel i probably would have stopped
yeah uh and now mad at you know 150,000
almost subscribers and so it’s it could
be I think there’s a lot of fear that I
can hold you back that you might get
haters and critical people and people
don’t realize the positive side that hey
these guys can keep you motivated and
make you want to keep going yeah
definitely we have a question from der
Mueller Chris people often come up with
many ideas but how do you guys decide
between ideas to create something so you
have lots of different ideas how do you
decide which one to go with oh that’s
our question um I think writing down all
of your ideas is a good place to start
and then trying to organize or
prioritize them i was using Evernote for
this also kind of Google Calendar all
put I’ll put up some ideas like maybe
these are things that I might want to
work on throughout the month and of
course they’ll move around but lately
I’ve been merging my Evernote ideas into
Trello and treble is kind of nice it’s a
free web application you can make these
little notes and then you can change the
the order of them and you can make
different category so in doing that you
can really narrow things down also from
like a YouTube point of view if I want
to know what video to put up I can look
at the videos that I’ve put up that are
really popular and kind of extrapolate
that maybe if I put up something similar
to that people will watch that as well
or I’ve even put up polls and I’ve just
asked people you know what do you want
to see this this or this you know and so
that’s a good way to kind of narrow it
down hello this is second time uh this
week that somebody’s recommended Trello
so I feel like I have to look at was it
a Tim Schmoyer yeah yeah that’s why I
heard it from oh you heard from tim too
that’s hello that’s interesting so I am
a check that out um in terms of you know
creating deciding which project to start
with one I am a fan of writing down
ideas too especially for someone like me
who has a bad memory if I don’t write it
down it’s gone so i’ll usually email
myself the idea and then if i’m going to
act on it i’ll act on it right away when
i get to my
email or I’ll save with Evernote file
for later but in terms of figuring out
then which idea to go with honestly uh
the best advice I would have is to
follow your flow you know art is is
something that comes from the heart not
the head you’ve got to love what you do
you’ve got a you’ve got to be into it if
you’re creating something just trying to
sell it it’s not going to be your best
work it’s got to be something that you
really feel that you can inject yourself
into and so I’d be looking at that list
and saying which one I’m most excited by
which one makes me come alive which one
am I most curious about and then start
down that path and the second that I
lose interest in it the second that I’ve
you know it feels like work or I’m not
as passionate about anymore I would move
on to something else and dive into
something that I am excited about again
and that that’s kind of that might be a
risky strategy but for me if your heart
isn’t into it and you’re creating
something creative it’s really hard it’s
hard to be creative when you are not
passionate about what you’re doing and
so you know some of the advice might be
hey weighed the pros and cons and see
you know which one makes the most
logical sense we’re really what you want
to do is get out of your head that big
decision should be with the heart small
ones with the head always it’s it’s
really taking the path at least
resistance you know I do that a lot
especially with my google calendar i’ll
i’ll suggest things that maybe i’ll do
on a certain day and then you know kind
of pick and choose light like out of
three to five different things what do I
feel more like doing and I’ll pick the
easy ones and I’ll knock those up first
and if I have to move the harder one to
a different day you know maybe I move
that to a day where there’s something
even more difficult and keeps everything
kind of in perspective if you kind of
knock out tasks that way cool Philip
running in hey guys many greetings from
germany hey Philip thanks for letting
Jeff the consummate truth in life is
that we alter our destiny be altering
our thoughts the mind is our most
crucial asset just like you said we
often take ourselves out of the game by
over sink thinking things over thinking
things so so
dealing with an artist whose
overthinking I feel it can be hard
because you may not have somebody in
your life to push you to be greater you
know you don’t have friends who are
artists you don’t have family whose
artist your this crazy chicken off doing
something and other people don’t
understand how do you combat that
tendency to want to overthink and
overanalyze and try to come with the
perfect thing and then you end up doing
nothing yeah that’s that’s a very
difficult challenge I mean I go through
that almost every day I spend a lot of
time thinking about what to do and I
realize I I see that as a negative thing
and sometimes as a positive thing
because that time spent thinking it
gives me ideas you know I might spend
ninety percent of time thinking about
something and spinning my wheels but
that ten percent of the time where I
have an idea that’s where that idea
comes about so I think you know you
don’t want to under think and you don’t
want to overthink sometimes you just
have to just act on instinct you just
have to kind of do it you know you have
to be a little more impulsive and trust
your instincts the other thing that
really helps me is I try to surround
myself with ideas that forced me to
think bigger and out of my usual comfort
zone it’s why i started the NSO series
on my channel where it’s a morning idea
from a successful entrepreneur that i
can learn from and try to try to be like
and try to model their success I think
we’re we’re definitely a product of our
environment and you take on the habits
and beliefs of the people closest around
you and so if you don’t have anybody in
your social circle who sees bigger
things and greater things and huge
opportunities and is a you know is a
dreamer then you can surround yourself
with that by reading books by watching
videos by you know watch my channel
watching errands channel having somebody
who’s kind of gone through it and done
it and just absorbing a little bit of
their wisdom and thought process can
help you stay focused and and get back
to doing instead of just being over
thinking and critical yeah there’s a lot
of there’s a lot of people to model I
mean I’ve watched a lot of documentaries
about Picasso and Salvador Dali and
andy warhol and you know you can you can
really kind of imagine you know what it
would be like to be successful from
seeing all their successes but on the
other hand if you are kind of alone in
this don’t be afraid to do your own
thing you know because you don’t
necessarily have to have a role model a
lot of people are very avant-garde and
they just they just do what they do and
they just put it out there and people
like it and they become artists that way
without you know going into it with the
expectation of being an artist or being
a successful artist how much do you feel
confidence plays a factor you mentioned
dolly yeah Salvador Dali and I remember
hearing about how he quit school because
he didn’t feel like anybody at the
school was worthy to judge his art yeah
he left like this super prestigious
Spanish university because nobody there
was good enough the judge his art so
obviously somebody was an insane amount
of confidence in what he’s doing how
much do you feel confidence is a factor
in helping entrepreneurs and artists
believe in themselves and become
successful in their career you have to
have some confidence but you know I mean
everybody kind of battles with that I
think I think confidence comes with
reward and reward comes with with risk
you know you put yourself out there you
see what happens you’re going to find
that you’re going to get a reward if you
put yourself out there and as those
rewards build up you start to feel more
and more confident and so it’s really
something that if you’re lacking in
confidence all you can really do is just
keep trying and just keep trying to
build your confidence you know it’s it
comes with experience I think yeah I
mean I would tend to agree i think i
think about the first time i made a
youtube video i was super nervous the
first time I did a google hangout I was
super nervous first I went on stage to
present something I was super nervous
and then every time you do it you get a
little bit less nervous and less
numerous less nervous you believe more
in your in your skills and what you can
do whether that confidence translates
into arrogance at some point is
interesting thought but I think you know
it’s just getting started like you said
like jump in it’s getting started you do
it once that’s a big scary step and then
every other step after is a little bit
less scary less scary less scary so
building momentum yeah um okay so
talking about promoting yourself and
building a business as a creative as an
artist say so you know I’ve got a statue
here of Guan Yu sama this is bronze if
I’m if I’m a bronze artist and I make
statues I don’t know how long something
that would take what’s what’s my you
know what’s my marketing strategy I
liked it I liked to sit in my workshop
and make bronze Kuan Yew statues how do
I get more sales and make a profit from
this idea I think don’t look at it like
you want you know the end result is the
sale you know here’s here’s what I’ve
created here’s the portfolio on my
website I think if you want to really
get people interested in it make some
YouTube videos or or have some sort of
social media where you show your process
and you can say you know here’s what I
start with I start with a big hunk of
bronze or you know I have to melt it
down and you know rather than just one
video of your process maybe make it a
weekly thing where you show each week
what you’ve done because I’m guessing
something like that probably takes quite
a bit of time that way you’re capturing
people who are you know every level of
enthusiasts for for sculpture there’s
people who want to learn how to do it
there’s people who just want to
appreciate it and then there’s the
people who want to buy it I think that
way you can kind of capture all of those
things together I love it Tommy’s
running in hello from Argentina hey
Tommy Tommy Michaels running with a
question hey I just started learning
about game design it’s something I’m
really interested in would i be better
focusing on improving my skill level
first and then making a profit of it or
vice versa I think do it at the same
time because you can build your skill
while while making profit you know I
wouldn’t I wouldn’t go into it like I’m
going to charge top dollar as if I’m a
college graduate in this field you know
didn’t give me a ton of money i mean you
might have to kind of start out a little
bit lower
and work your way up if you don’t really
want to worry about doing it for profit
do pro bono work if it’s for a good
cause you know do work for your friends
um if your friends are indie game
developers or just create portfolio
examples for yourself make up your own
game assets for a fictional game yeah i
think you know Michael think in all
honesty it’s gonna be hard for you to
make a profit if you don’t have skill
right I mean money comes from providing
value can you provide value if you don’t
have any skill probably not so I’d be
looking at I would probably branch other
than two things 1i would i would start
on the side do my own thing whatever
game are interested in wherever I want
to you know if it’s a RPG that I’m into
or I’m going to build the next league of
legends or whatever it is just start
building it and then too I would I would
try to model and go work for a company
that I want to be like in 10 years right
this is a hard subject to go to
university for right there are some
courses that have game design there but
it the guys who are really making the
innovations the real learning will come
from working with a fun young company
that is doing big things can you go work
for Riot Games and squeeze out knowledge
from them that would be my advice I
would try to find a company that I want
to be like in five years maybe rides too
big and get as close to the founder as
possible take out as many projects as
possible learn their processes you’re
basically getting paid to learn if you
go out and only do your own thing you’re
going to make a lot of mistakes while
losing money doing it we’re here you can
get paid to make those mistakes and then
at the same time start your business on
the side with those four friends whether
it’s demo where there’s pro bono for
charities as Aaron was talking about I
would run those two parallel paths but i
did in the back of my mind to be
thinking hey that if i’m trying to
create a game if you want to make profit
it’s going to come from making a game
the people out you want to play and so
you know that’s the value that you’re
provided in creating can you do that if
you don’t have skill probably not I’m
open to seeing what you can deliver but
if you want to make a game and you have
no idea about game design you’re not a
programmer it’s going to be really
really hard and so you want to get the
skill experience knowledge to then be
able to pour into the game that can
create something super valuable gravel
bach mechanic is talking about our
shirts of mine with the quote there’s a
long quote but I like this shirt what’s
on your shirt mine is a digital
paintbrush and it’s painting red green
and blue pixels which is RGB for a
monitor color so it’s a shirt that I
have available on spreadshirt I like it
the when you normally speak in the
bottom is little cut-offs you can’t see
this a pink breast so that’s cool i was
curious yeah i was trying to keep it all
in the frame but i think my torso is too
long gonna move back back in um cool PR
fashion beauty hello from London zeno
rice game design isn’t any good anyway
hey Zeno don’t hate on League of Legends
friend okay I know you’re loyal fan of
the channel but like here um cool so
somebody who’s getting started on
YouTube you know you’re recommending hey
i’m doing a bronze statue you should you
should do the behind the scenes of what
i’m going to do to make that statue so
great i made my first video you know I
look at am NOT a big fan of it you know
I feel like I’m awkward but Aaron says
publish it so I’m going to publish it
great now what do i do how do I get
people to see that video how do I
promoted or is it just creating more
videos and more videos and more videos I
think it’s both I mean you you want to
have more than one video obviously so
that if you know people have the
opportunity to subscribe they can see
this isn’t just one video on a channel
it’s going to be a series so you know
you would you would want at least have a
vision of some other projects that you
could show if it takes you a really long
time to complete one piece then you
could try to think of other ways to
branch out one of the ways that i have
done that is i have my vlogs where i
just talked about being an artist so you
know it takes me a long time to do a
really detailed painting tutorial but
these vlogs I
can just you know I could do multiple
shots of those per day so you could
branch out that’s that’s kind of one way
to approach it the other would be to
share it as much as possible and I kind
of mentioned that earlier through
Facebook and the other social media
channels if you don’t if you’re new to
these you’re probably not going to have
very many subscribers there either so
you could think about promoting locally
you know if you’re if you’re if there’s
certain events or conferences or art
shows that you could go to or if you’re
a sculptor you maybe you could put
things up in different places do you
like installation art and then have a
little you know maybe a little QR code
or something that people could scan that
takes takes them to your YouTube channel
there’s really a lot you can do although
the other thing I would suggest is to
play off trends and playoff people that
you look up to and respect as an example
there was a guy who was a pancake artist
you gotta may have seen like the pancake
videos now um and he did a pancake of me
because he liked my channel and so he
put me as a pancake as a tribute piece
and of course I had to share it right
like hey I just got turned into a
pancake this is awesome right there was
another guy at Pete who’s a pixel artist
and he’s mostly blind and he’s a he’s a
pixel artist which is cool in itself uh
and he created a pixel portrait of me
and sent that in and of course I wanted
to share that too and so if there’s
people that you look up to or if you
love like League of Legends and you
create fanart think about things that
you’re passionate about right don’t
don’t just do something because you
think it might hit you do because you
respect that person or you really love
that game or you want to you know create
something because of what happened in
Paris you know whatever you consume and
you love I would try to create art
around that as well if possible you know
you may not be able to make a bronze
statue of somebody but if you did and
you delivered it to some big youtuber
hey they might mention you in the video
and so
would try to look at creating some
tribute pieces as well again as long as
it’s kind of in line with your values
and what you believe in and you really
look up to and respect those people too
yeah have you have you done any trippy
pieces Aaron for youtubers specificity
buddy I mean like people you looked up
to or causes you believe I’ve done a
done portraits of Bob Ross Michael
McDonald I have to have to look and see
who else but yeah I’ve done a few
different portraits I’ve done portraits
of friends and family and things like
that so cool it’d be fun to do a YouTube
portrait though I thought about that
cool who yeah i mean if you found
somebody that you looked up to on
youtube where you consume their videos
you love what they’re talking about um
that way i feel it’s more it’s genuine
right like you’re getting a lot of value
from their channel it’s all free you
know and here’s something my little way
of giving back in that email that you
write to them you know they’ll feel the
love of someone who is a subscriber on
their channel versus somebody who’s just
trying to get some exposure yeah Oh
Michael writing in Thank You Evan and
Aaron for the advice no problem Michael
jobs Mohammed writing in hello from
Morocco hello jobs yeah can you make
money just by providing ideas to people
can you make money just by providing
ideas to people you know that’s I guess
that gets into consultation which I do
and people have me people have me over
all the time to you know just evaluate a
creative project let’s say a youtube
video that someone else is making you
know they’ll say does this make sense
should i put the annotations here and so
on i provide art critiques or if i have
a student you know in a way I’m kind of
I’m teaching them and so in a way yes
i’m selling them information so there
are lots of ways to do that yeah i think
you have to you think about the
execution because the idea alone isn’t
valuable unless you have a patent like
if you go up to a big company say hey I
have an idea for you to double your
business
well they’re just going to take that
idea and do it themselves unless you
have a patent on that idea where the
value comes in beyond just the idea is
the execution so you know you go to Erin
and say hey Erin I’m i want to make a
video to showcase my art great he can
walk you through through a coaching
program or through consulting he’s
helping you execute so that’s the value
wide so it’s not just his idea and what
you can do it’s him walking you through
step-by-step how to actually do it so I
don’t know what kind of ideas that
you’re trying to sell but the greater
value is going to be and not just
selling the idea but helping me reach my
goal right my goal is to have a popular
YouTube video Aaron knows the 10 steps I
need to go through and he walks me
through one tells me how to do it so as
I would be looking at and your end if
it’s just pure idea get a patent and see
who might be able to buy it or license
it otherwise it’s how can I move that
idea forward into actually delivering a
result yeah if if you had the capability
to make a prototype if it’s something
simple enough you could start a
Kickstarter IndieGoGo and then at least
you have a documented you know I don’t
know if that’s you still have to have a
patent but at least you’re kind of
moving it forward beyond just being an
idea because you know like Evan said
people can just take your idea and then
it’s their idea so yeah now i’m curious
how often are you posting different
kinds of videos what what are the what
kinds of videos are you posting and
what’s the frequency for people watching
my my formulas kind of changed it’s it’s
in a in a state of transition i was
posting for 26 videos a week and so i
was posting every monday tuesday
thursday friday and then you know maybe
a few random videos on the weekends but
then I’ve kind of changed that to now
i’m posting a new video every friday but
occasionally throughout the week there
might be some incidental videos but at
least one video every friday and and so
your main video is the how to write its
how to draw an eyeball it’s it’s how to
draw something it’s an instructional
video right yeah yeah if the the
specialty would be Corel Painter
specifically digital painting specific
and then it kind of branches off into a
lot of different things one of my more
popular series is called draw this and
basically I’ll just randomly generate a
word let’s say apple and then I’ll draw
an apple so a lot of times they’re
photorealistic and other times they’re
in different styles I have some series
on how to paint like certain artists if
you want to learn how to paint digital
you like Jackson Pollock and slaughtered
paint all over your canvas that’s come
as I mentioned before I have the vlogs
and then I have digital painting
outdoors which is a series where I paint
outside on my walk and Cintiq companion
which is kind of like a big beefy ipad
for for digital painting specifically
and so I’ll set that up on an easel and
I’ll do paintings of landscapes and
record the process so yeah those are
those are the main the main video so I’d
also have a lot of tablet reviews so I
review the hardware and the software
that I use cool and that also seems like
prime content to ask for requests on
like what do you want me to draw next
the end people can write in hey a
microphone or hey dream yeah yeah i bet
i’ve been doing those on live streams
where i’ll have a live stream and then
people can request you know drawing i’ve
also done like pictionary live streams
for actually got a dictionary from the
thrift store i used one and i just take
the little deck of cards and I’ll just
kind of go through them and draw the
draw the words so that’s cool I love
it’s fun cool cool well I know we’re
bumping up against the clock Thank You
Erin so much for for spending some time
thank you guys thank you have been
watching some great comments in the chat
again for people who may be tuned in
late or watch them to replay they want
to learn more about you what you’re all
up to where’s the best place to find you
you should go to youtube.com slash Aaron
Rutten or you could look up Aaron Rutten
on google and you’ll probably get a
hundred thousand different things that
I’ve put up my websites Aaron Rutten
calm and that’s really a hub for
everything you know if you’re interested
in art or you’re interested in learning
how to to get some creative tips i
actually have a featured playlist on my
youtube channel about
you know some advice that kind of
elaborates more on what we talked about
today so check that out I love it Thank
You Erin for the time thank you guys for
watching and thanks everybody thanks
Evan cheers
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