do you want to hit start oh you’re
already live your life here we go my
debugger okay i put a start start my
recording now we’re we’re sort of in
different technologies here some skype
fans some GoToWebinar fans and then of
course we have google hangout all right
i’m gonna just hit record here so it’s
actually count i’m using using
ScreenFlow to record the hangouts which
is probably made a little bit retarded
but we’re going to do it anyway so
alerts hi early becca here author of the
international bestseller never work
again and also the host of this this
podcast called invincible entrepreneur
not invisible entrepreneur invincible
entrepreneur where we explore you know
what it takes two to make it as an
entrepreneur and keep on making it
because it can be and it probably should
be a bit of a bumpy bumpy road so today
I’ve invited Evan Carmichael you can you
can see if you’re watching the the
YouTube clip which he is recording with
google hangout which will automatically
be placed on his youtube channel so one
of the things that is great with
interviewing and meeting cool people is
that you learn a lot of things and of
course that’s why i wanted to launch a
podcast where i interviewed the best of
the best so hi and welcome where are you
you signing in from today so i’m i’m
here in Toronto um Toronto Canada born
and raised i spent most of my time here
when I’m not traveling and proud
Canadian yeah like you don’t say aboot a
lot we don’t say a boot no no about
about yeah right so you actually
stumbled into entrepreneurship a day at
a very very young age you started off
selling drawings with your sister and
then you thought you were going to
become a VP VP of a bank but probably
living just in this really tall
expensive building over here working
over there in Wall Street
didn’t it didn’t quite go that way yeah
yeah you did your homework looking at my
bio there about the selling the drawings
it’s interesting when I was younger I
had a lot of entrepreneurial Inklings my
first thing was when I was five and I
took my three-year-old little sister and
would you picture than what door to door
selling oven my neighbor bought my first
one for five or ten cents and you knows
my first official sale as an
entrepreneur and I sold baseball cards
and I had the lemonade stands and all
the things you do as a kid but Mike you
know I didn’t have much worse in my
family my parents weren’t entrepreneurs
I didn’t know entrepreneurs nobody in my
extended family was an entrepreneur and
so I never it wasn’t in my vocabulary to
become an entrepreneur as a profession
is something I did for fun on the side
but I never thought had this is what I’m
gonna do for my life so yeah in high
school I you know they ask you where do
you see yourself in 10 years when you
graduate and gets put your yearbook and
I said I was going to be a VP at a bank
that was always my my dream job you know
I always loved any financial related
stuff on stock competitions and all that
stuff and so that’s why i thought i was
going to end up and when i got to
university I connected with two friends
who had started a biotech software
company and they needed help they had a
great piece of software but it wasn’t
selling because they didn’t like the
cell they wanted to do what they love to
do which was cut code and be in front of
the computer and you know create this
amazing software and so I joined I
thought it was a challenge like why not
you know something to do see if I like
it and and I did and I came on and i was
getting media opportunities and closing
partnerships and bringing on new
customers but it was a slow path and a
member in my first year I was making
three hundred dollars a month with them
yeah it’s like nothing right like Fiona
does a month Wow we’re surviving off of
beans for lunch and yeah yeah I’m in my
last year of university I got
opportunities
to work with McKinsey Consulting and
Merrill Lynch who were like at the top
of my list or like graduating high
school like wow I can go work with these
guys that that’s I hit it I hit a home
run and they they flew me out to New
York and put me up in the Waldorf
Astoria which is a super famous hotel
and they had eighty to a hundred
thousand dollars starting salaries and
here I’m kind of weigh my options
between this dream job I always wanted
and this tiny nothing burger company
that’s making three hundred dollars a
month and something just kept pulling me
to the business and I kept thinking you
know what like I don’t want to regret
this I don’t want to look back on my
life when I’m older and back and say i
really wish i had taken my shot and did
this company and it didn’t make sense
for me my friends and my family was
supportive million fully understand it
and I thought you know what I’m gonna
get myself a year and I’m gonna try this
and I can always go get a job if it
doesn’t work out and and it worked and I
never had to go back and get the job and
it’s funny because a couple years later
I had my friends coming to me and saying
Evan I’m I you know they took those jobs
like I can’t stand my job i’m working a
hundred hours a week you know I want to
start my boss so I get started in my own
company like wow that could have been me
I was so close to on that line so yeah
super you and you’re lucky that’s that
you started that early i remember you
know when i was 14 I I went out and I
got my own got my own job because I
wanted to I wanted independence I want
to make my own money and I was actually
stacking shelves that at a local grocery
store and I just went there and said I
want to work here and they think the
most kind of often looked at me and said
okay you know you can work here and I
remember what they paid but it was like
six dollars an hour i think i wish in
norway you know isn’t that much because
of that I think the South normal salary
in Norway now is like the lowest salary
nori is not twenty dollars an hour like
you can’t legally pay anyone less which
is
kind of high compared to other countries
but when I was 19 I i had the
opportunity of managing a tennis club
and you know they I did they would pay
me well I would learn everything about
you know accounting and selling and
marketing and systems and all these
things that we we learn as entrepreneurs
you know how actual business functions
and works but I actually went and
studied abroad instead I did the sort of
safe safe route and then I found myself
at the age of 26 you know being fired
from my first proper you know proper
consulting you know I was a brand
consultant than London getting fired and
I sort of had to dig deep and find out
Oh what do I really want to do and I
think if I hadn’t been fired probably
would have been working in a job right
now and I wouldn’t have had you know we
wouldn’t be sitting here talking about
it I wouldn’t have written a book I
wouldn’t had started you know multiple
companies and yeah so so you listen to
your inner inner guidance and you said
I’m gonna want to stick with this
company and you’re a so what happened
after that um and that’s a cool story I
love your story too but that’s that’s
really awesome and it is it’s it’s a so
many people have that they feel like
they want to go and do something but
you’re too afraid and so they don’t
think the week where that’s really what
you’re meant to do and you should go you
should go at least explore it and it’s
probably easier to do that so what I
thought about when I when I was fired I
was like okay I have this amount of
money i was living in London and very
expensive apartment for some stupid
reason because I have been trained to to
spend what I spend what I made right if
you can afford this then spend it but
yeah I really had to really have to dig
deep and there was it was hard there’s a
lot of fear but at the same time I
thought okay if I if I wait till later
where I have kids and a mortgage and all
this stuff it’s going to be even more
scary so I kind of felt like now is the
time
yeah you have the same feeling um for me
I think I was fortunate in that I had I
had a family upbringing where my parents
made me believe that whatever I set my
heart and I could accomplish right oh
they may not have encouraged arch burial
side of me but they gave me self
confidence so that if I tried something
I felt like I would find a way to be
successful at whatever and they would
always say you know you’re a kiss truly
Carmichael my mom’s last name is just
really you’re Chris chilly comical you
know you can do you can do this or
whatever it was so that helped and then
on top of it what what really because i
was on the French this wasn’t an easy
decision like I can look back now and
say all that was such a smart decision
but it wasn’t an easy decision I really
struggled trying to figure out what I
want to do and the thing that helped tip
the balance for me was giving myself a
year I said I could do this for one year
but doesn’t work out I will at least
know that it wasn’t for me and I wasn’t
gonna be successful at it and I can go
back and get that job don’t wasn’t like
I was throwing my whole life away but I
huh like if I want to get the job I
couldn’t go and try this so that given
myself a year really made it less risky
and easy me to take that leap what do
you call that how do you eat an elephant
strategy one piece of that one cruise at
a time yeah and I’m so Jeff Bezos the
founder of Amazon he calls it the regret
minimize minimization framework where
when he was going to start amazon he was
in his 30s and he was an investment
banker and was one of the he was the
youngest ever VP at his company and on
the fast track to become a superstar in
his business and he laughed and sold
everything he had to start amazon at a
time where nobody knew what the internet
was and little commercialize in it and
he was walking home as mentor as they
said like you’re crazy what are you
doing why is this your you have it all
made man your will faster than anybody
else and
said I just I don’t want to live with
regret I fast forwarded to his life at
70 and when people are you know on their
death bed and thinking back on their
life they number one thing is they
regret they didn’t take more chances and
they regret they didn’t follow their
passion and so he knew that person and
so you went and he launched amazon and I
could have blown up in his face but at
least he would know that he tried and
that’s what the same thing I want to
know that I try to give it my best just
to have an answer not live with regret
yeah and one the United of time I can I
can relate to that as well actually the
so I’ve I’ve been in business now for
seven years and I have definitely the
first four years were like okay I want
to do this one year and then I came to
the end of the year I was like wow this
is this is a lot more difficult than I
thought wow you know cuz you trying to
like do everything you’re trying to like
understand the accounting rules there’s
so many things that you haven’t thought
about um we’re actually kind of scaring
people in fit for this interview so far
I think but there’s so many things you
haven’t thought about like like you know
what are the rules and regulations for
you know somebody gets ill in your
company do you have to you know pay them
money still or you know how does that
work like there’s so many little details
that you don’t think about before you
start and I just remember that first
year for me of being like a massive
learning curve you know trying to study
trying to learn and trying to learn and
also like do the work and deliver the
product and but having that like one
year perspective for me was definitely
also very very good thing to do so so
that first year and then what happened
then what happened yeah so you know so i
made this decision like okay I got a
year to do it and didn’t want to have
made a huge mistake and yeah turned back
those jobs so it was really stressful
and really hard and and we struggled a
lot and it’s funny because when I when I
was in high school my my
worst subject with science I hate it
sorry sucked at science I dropped it as
soon as I could and here i was running a
science company my teachers laughing at
me and saying you know you’re never
gonna make that mmm and we struggled and
we got to the point where like we were
trying everything we could think of and
my partners were young too and and
nothing was working out you know like
nothing was working at work any momentum
and it started feeding down on my
self-worth you know like I’ve been
really successful everything I had done
in school and sports and projects and
here i was like poor and everything I
had and I’m not getting any momentum
like you take that for so long before
you start to feel hmm like you have no
value like I’m a smart person and why am
I not getting more s than this Vidya
ridiculous you know and it got to the
point number one day I was talking to my
business partner we’re at a family event
and we were starting to disagree over
where we should go we should do like
we’re trying everything and she’s not
working and I remember I told him on the
phone that you know what I can’t handle
this anymore I quit and I’ve done I’m
gonna do something else because like
Mecca my time is being sucked dry here
my soul is crushed and I hadn’t you know
I wasn’t a quitter I never quit on
things before and I hung up the phone
with him and I just started bawling like
cry my eyes out for 20 minutes and you
know just hear myself say that I quit I
put all this work in this business it
didn’t take off and I remember my mom
came up and she put her hand on my
shoulder I don’t remember what she said
yeah I was just lost and that was
definitely the low point that was like I
felt like I made the biggest mistake of
my life I felt like I was totally
worthless and and the next day I woke up
when I thought like I can’t quit I gotta
I gotta I gotta do something to make
this happen to make this work because
how
doing it now is not is not working we
tried everything to think that when it’s
not working and the change like I could
have quit there but the change that
sparked the growth for us was when I
realized that I’m not the first guy to
try to sell software before and I don’t
have to figure everything out myself and
there was no we were in bioinformatics
software is really niche thing and there
was no you know huge company to model
but I figured you know I’m going to
widen the net and look at software in
general and I looked at Microsoft and
mcafee and into it companies that I
admired in the software space looked at
how they got started how did they get to
their first million dollars 021 that’s
what I wanted to do like how Bill Gates
makes his action millions now I don’t
care about like 0 to 1 that idea that
getting this first big deal I wanted to
do that and I looked at their stories
and sort of applying what worked for
them to my business and that’s a growth
and Microsoft’s strategy was through
partnerships and alliances any time they
enter the new market was sooo and i
found the partnership way to do it
they’re big deal came with IBM when they
sold every IBM computer had to have
Microsoft’s offer on it that was a view
that exploded them but they’re already
accept that there’s also a question
about that so um the IBM deal so how
it’s depicted in a lot of documentaries
and books is like that was the you know
you know the sort of it’s a bit
glamorous I think it’s the the pirates
of Silicon Valley it kind of shows how
they you know they’re in the dorm room
and then suddenly they’re doing this big
deal with IBM right so did they have
more partnerships and on successful
partnerships before they kind of hit it
large or did so Microsoft was already a
seven million dollar company when they
made that deal with IBM okay I didn’t
know that like seven million dollars
that’s not a huge company it’s not
anywhere close what Microsoft is now but
it’s still a seven million dollar
comfort that’s still that’s not a
nothing company still something that was
that was in the 80s and they and they
made that seven million dollars to
partnerships another line then basic
they partnered up with hardware vendors
because IBM was the biggest at the time
it wasn’t the only and only one and and
they shipped their computers with
Microsoft’s offer on it and so some of
the companies didn’t work out you know
their very first deal was with the
company named mints who had a computer
called the Altair and still gates saw
this i’ll tear on the cover of a
magazine and called up mitts and said
hey we’ve got software to run on your
computer where they hadn’t even done any
coding at all and it said okay come and
show us and they had like two weeks to
to create the code for this computer
that they didn’t even have access to
didn’t you have a mid saltaire they had
to use other computers and they showed
up at the meeting and put the saffron
and hope that it would work and it did
work luckily I know your first deal and
then they kept doing that partnership of
the partager of the Mirage it and so I
thought man that’s an interesting
strategy I mean how can I use that like
it worked for the biggest software
company in the world at the time how can
I use that to help my business and so I
started looking for other companies that
were already selling to our target
audience we’re selling the scientists
and I want to find other companies sell
the scientists introduce myself and say
hey maybe there’s a way we can work
together yeah i was at bottom I had
nothing else to lose I was like in
desperation mode so I’ll try anything
why not you know give it a shot and and
within two weeks I had my first deal
with a company that paid us 13 and a
half thousand dollars and now I mean
that may not be a lot of money but but
to me 13 and a half K when I make it 300
bucks a month that was like that was
celebration that was big time you know
we were making but more important than
just the 13 a half thousand dollars we
had finally some kind of momentum going
ending me a strategy to now use to close
more deals but gave me the framework so
i can go phils another deal another deal
another deal
so I kept feel or these partnership
deals to bring in business for us yeah
that’s how our company started to take
off and we’ve started achieving success
and basically two years after that we
got acquired pretty fast rapid growth so
just took him from buildings
partnerships they kept in growing and
I’m total partnerships that I mean that
was a turning point I kept a little more
partnerships started getting the media
started you know getting known within
our industry turning our founder into an
expert like a recognized expert and
closing more deals and and we ended up
closing deals with NASA and Johnson &
Johnson and we had customers in over 30
countries wow that led to our rapid
growth and then eventual acquisition of
but like you know it was a year of
struggling and I met and failure and the
samos didn’t work out it though yeah the
Tony Robbins one of this one of his
sayings is success leaves clues yeah
right so somebody misses a book called
borrowing brilliance which is actually
one of my most favorite books in
business because it’s like just look at
what other people are doing yeah if they
can do it and make money doing something
that means you can do the same and also
make money no but I guess we’re trained
in school 22 first of all think like
employees IE you know go to school and
pick up a big loan and and study and
then you know buy a house and have an
even bigger loan so you’re basically a
prisoner of your debt I think society is
a little bit engineered that way but
we’re also told that you know copying is
bad right so like modeling something
that somebody doesn’t business is bad
like you should feel bad if you do it
but like borrowing a strategy like you
did like like you know plagiarism isn’t
good right like stealing somebody’s like
unique brand or you know something that
you need to put your innovation in it
but
borrowing brilliance is a good
entrepreneurial skills that you agree
yeah I mean I call a modeling success
but foreign really great as well and you
have to adapt it to fit your company
obviously you know I go to IBM and say
hey let’s sell such scientific software
on every argument ships but yet them
about it did you know fit your plan I
think the biggest just the idea from
there is you don’t have to come up with
every idea yourself as entrepreneurs
we’re trying to do everything and we
learn to do every single thing in our
businesses we’re starting hmm but you
don’t need to come up with every genius
idea like entrepreneur’s we pride
ourselves on being innovative and
visionary and I’m going to be creative
and come up with this new solution
that’s all right that’s what we do is
our innovators we’d like coming up with
new ideas but you don’t think I with
every single new idea and you can adapt
other ideas and make them fit your visit
was the big shift for my go up and its
really take off yeah and do you find an
iphone highly innovative or is it just
put together in a way that works well um
i think for entrepreneurs ep.6 actually
have to be innovative our top where was
highly innovative but we were doing one
who create was highly innovative the the
marketing of it even the partnerships
that I pursued was innovative I hadn’t
been done by any of the people are any
of our competitors they weren’t doing
this so we were innovative in our field
but that idea yeah um Microsoft we’ve
done it you know 20 years really yeah
yeah I love the like on the macbook you
have the magnetic plug Steve Jobs saw a
rice cooker in Japan that had the
magnetic plug and that’s why the max
have magnetic plugs oh so it’s kind of
like you know kind of seeing something
and then combining it in a new way which
then is innovation yeah when I’m
advising on I love that story by the way
I didn’t know that so I’m learning
something new to it’s great um my advice
when Marlon success is to why
look at the whoever’s the biggest person
biggest company in your general industry
and look at how they got started and the
bigger the company is easier it is to
model and find out what their story was
you can learn about Bill Gates at any
library or Wikipedia lots of places
online so it doesn’t have to be you know
specific to your product but a little
bit wider and find the top company look
at their success stories in the
beginning the other one though is then
fine who’s your favorite entrepreneur
you know look up if you look up the
Steve Jobs or Richard Branson or Bill
Gates or you know Rockefeller or whoever
it is look at how they got started
because it have may not have anything to
do with your industry but you can learn
from their success and the more you feel
connected to the entrepreneur and the
more you love their story the more
likely you’re going to follow through on
the strategy that may seem crazy or
counter and too little but never been
done in your industry before but you’re
willing to do it because you’re going to
be the next John Rockefeller Donald
Trump or whoever it is so there’s a lot
you can learn from inside you and you
see but also outside just by looking at
our chores you look up to that’s also
one of the things that you’ve dedicated
a large part of your blog to is is
modeling looking at what successful
people there is their story and how they
started how they mood and I mean you
went from from starting a company to
sell any company in three years yeah is
which is an incredible short amount of
time really to to kind of go from start
to sell what what do you when you when
you’re working in the venture capital
industry typically how long did it take
for companies to build and sell so if
you are going to a VC they usually want
to be in and out within eight years I
start within five years and in ain’t
investors looking at the internet within
eight years um so you know that’s kind
of a general timelines a lot of
companies who will be around for 20
years and never get out that’s not part
of the plan just wanted to be a family
business and passed from generation to
generation generation for us the thing
that really made the difference was
if you look at industries you’ll often
find that when there’s only a few big
players there’ll be a lot of innovation
and the market will expand and newcomers
will pop up and there’ll be lots of you
know new competition come out of the
market and then over time when there’s
lots of competition the name she starts
to consolidate and the big players start
buying up all these small companies so
you see these waves happening in almost
every industry where there’s a lot of
competition and then the companies buy
them up and then there’s no innovation
and new innovation pops up so in our
industry at the time we were just
starting to see consolidation so the big
companies were coming in and if you want
to get a good price tag for your
business you want to sell when people
are buying right just make sense um and
so we had a decision to make of do we
want to sell now or we all want to wait
for the next cycle to come along which
may be in the eight or ten years before
we’ll have the right price again so that
was one factor the other one was my two
business partners really wanted to move
to the to California is like their life
dream California living and being the
Canadian you can’t just move the
California we have a fairly flexible
visa we can spend you know half a year
there but you couldn’t live there and be
you know citizens on your own as an
entrepreneur you need to be sponsored
you need to have a company get you there
and so by selling to a California
company my two business partners were
able to move to California and still
live in the US so ah you know it’s hard
to tell your business partners no do not
follow your dream do not move the
California we’re doing this here if they
get to the the golden conflicts what we
call it I golden oh they’re the marriage
yes yeah no did they have to work for
the company for a while or they did they
both have moved on from that company I
mean it makes sense you know the
technical people um they had to
integrate the software with the company
that was buying us so there
work that had to be done but they also
wanted to go to California and so they
worked there for I think it’s two years
and then started doing other projects
and so they both want us to start other
projects separately which which is great
too yeah that’s it so you work in
venture capital and and now and then you
started your your blog and and tell us
about how you generate money in that
spare of business how do you how do you
make money on a blog Ryan speaking all
this stuff here and even the jump to
venture capital was not an easy decision
you know I sold my business and then I
was depressed like I don’t know what you
with my life anymore I woke up every day
and went to work and pushed hard to get
this business going and now all of a
sudden it’s gone I didn’t know what I
wanted to do and I kind of struggled and
jumped around and I just started saying
yes to things and I think if you don’t
know what your passion is you start
saying yes and trying things out in I
need to find something that you fall in
love with the BC world wasn’t something
necessarily super love I was curious
about it I never needed venture capital
for my business we thought about it but
we didn’t need it and I wanted to learn
more about that industry so that’s why I
hooked up with a b c company here in
Toronto um I remember keeping like a
little journal of what I was doing in
the day and just trying to think of you
know what do I get excited by and there
was another kind of depressing time in
my life ah those are the two though not
that that other like major ones but but
Jana business seems super happy I’m it’s
a good problem to have it’s a good
problem but it was still a problem
anyway um I started my website right
after I sold my business maybe even just
before so pipe is I have to go back on
the way back Time Machine and check it
out uh but it started as a resource for
entrepreneurs because when I not Bill
Gates story that that one strategy from
bill gates saved my business
like noon gonna quit that was it and
Bill Gates save my business without you
know me ever meaning here and so I I
figured like you know I was I was a
smart student I learned everything i had
to going through school and I couldn’t
figure this thing out after working
really hard and I figured you know
there’s a lot of other entrepreneurs
with the same way like they’re they’re
smart and you know they studied and they
tried to figure things out and they’re
not having success and I stumbled onto
it you know wasn’t that lightbulb moment
came in massive desperation and I
figured other people could learn from
that success to without having to go
through my crazy failure you know they
could just learn from my hand applied to
their business and so I started off like
to share famous stories of entrepreneurs
and how they got started in the largest
resource online of telling things
entrepreneur stories there early swords
Holly launched and how they created
their empire there was never a
monetization strategy behind it it was
just I want to help other entrepreneurs
not suck as much as I did trying to get
this thing and when i joined the VC
world I kept creating some of that
content and then also created articles
about raising capital as a way that
generate leads or the venture capital
business eventually I discovered a
program called Adsense that was in the
early days of Adsense and what year was
that um what year was that that’s a good
question okay so i sold my business in
2002 so it’d be just after back 2003
somewhere in my bed okay um yeah I
wasn’t like the first guy on accent so
people doing it but it wasn’t like
widespread everybody’s on it and I and I
just tested it out and eventually saw
that hey if I optimize this and I’ve had
more content you know you can make some
money doing this hmm and and I really
enjoyed helping entrepreneurs and I got
to the
point why I felt like with the VC
business I was there for a year and a
half two years and I started to feel
like I had learned what I needed to
learn and I was ready to move on to
something else and so I started spending
more time on my website and doing
interviews and creating content and
turned that into its own business um and
then been doing that for 12 years 11
years or something like that so full
it’s shifted and changed as my interest
has grown in various areas but um yeah
it’s been a fun it’s been a fun ride and
how is that industry changed since like
two thousand three like this speaking
the information marketing how have you
seen it evolve over time um because it’s
such a low barrier to entry there’s a
lot of people who have jumped in on it
which isn’t um there’s a lot of people
who just get into it trying to make
money and and they don’t and it’s funny
when you mean sessions about finding
your passion the people who jump into a
business is trying to make money almost
never do because it’s it’s too hard and
you have to be kind of crazy to be an
entrepreneur but when you’re following
your passion and you do something is
really excites you then the money will
come and if you look at famous
entrepreneurs and why they got started
the richest people in the world why they
got started it was never to make a lot
of money was to have an impact and
follow their passion some sort and money
came one is important we’re not doing
things as a cherry it’s important what I
main reason and so a lot of people jump
into the the articles of the you know
creating you guys or that kind of
digital marketing I’m just trying to
make money and they create a lot of
crappy product keys and confusion for
the poor people avoid any confusion yeah
and frustration you know and people buy
something they don’t it’s you know not
great it wasn’t what they expected
didn’t help them a little less a little
more skeptical before buying the next
day um and I think it just forces people
to have better quality you know if you
want to build a
a business now in this space really it’s
putting the brand for yourself you have
to create a personal brand or business
brand people can connect to and to
fashion about and be known for quality
in your space because there’s so much
crap out there hmm so that’s been fun
like that’s why I do the YouTube videos
and I do your interviews and yeah a lot
of time with social media is building
the brand second with the audience and
as a result people if you talk of the
business side people then hire me that
comes to get their events and they buy
my my products and you know fly me out
to different activities to judge
contacts or whatever it is and I don’t
really do much I don’t really do any
sales like I’m not calling these guys up
and say hey I’m Evan here’s what I do
create the footprint and created enough
noise in my industry that you become a
known quantity and people start coming
to you looking for opportunities so
let’s talk about finding your passion
and you’re saying like so old of all the
successful entrepreneurs that you’ve
seen read about talk to it like starting
from a place of like I want to make a
lot of money is not doesn’t really work
right yeah it’s me intuitive it is kind
of you know what I’d like I’m so I
believe it’s so firmly then it’s there’s
still a lot of people who don’t and said
it requires explanation um if you look
at famous entrepreneurs you look at
people who’ve made a lot of money it’s
you look at their story and you see all
the struggle that they have to go
through the only thing that keeps them
going is because they love what they
were doing and it rarely makes rational
sense to start a business you know if
you look at these famous entrepreneurs
it really it didn’t make rational like
for me with my business it didn’t make
rational sense to keep going at this
year in the dollar job versus
a hundred-thousand-dollar go work in
another business company hmm doesn’t
make rational sense and so how do you
defy the rational sense and how do you
defy the friends and the family in your
life to say this is like you the same
thing this is that it’s irrational it’s
listening to your heart and not your
head and that’s where that’s where you
get the motivation to keep going because
if it’s just for the money then you’re
gonna it’s going to be hard you’re going
to come across obstacles and you’re
going to quit because because that’s a
rational smart thing to do I’m not
making money so I’m going to stop it’s
only when you love doing it that your
heart overpowers your head and says I’m
going to keep doing this because I need
to go and I’m going to find other ways
to make money to survive because this is
too important to me so um this’ll be
this big guest but hold on people that
decide to start a business how many do
you think do it like mostly for for
money Allah yeah I don’t know I think
it’s what we’re trained to do from you
know small business classes at school or
from the TV shows that you watch it’s
all about the money but then when you
get out you actually start doing it if
that’s your primary focus you don’t have
success hmm so I mean I think do a lot
more to encourage entrepreneurs I mean
even you like you’re having your own
mark here by having these interviews by
talking sense entrepreneurs and have
been helping them share their stories to
your podcast you’re having your own mark
on your group of people and you’re
you’re helping entrepreneurs learn to be
better and it’s not even entrepreneurs
it’s anything like you want to have
success if I always push people to
become entrepreneurs I love it that’s
what I love but if you want to be an
accountant you better love being an
accountant hmm right like if you could
what you want to be entrepreneurial good
work it kpmg or whatever but you got to
love what you’re doing the people who
are at the top of their field and
anything love what they’re doing if you
go into a
to a job just trying to make money
you’re not going to be successful you’re
not going to become the top person
because you don’t really love what
you’re doing hmm so you want to have
success in anything you have to have the
love and then that will help you rise to
the top and at the top you make money
yeah not that passion without that love
you’re not going to get there so you can
use all you can eat Karen it’s like how
do you so many people yeah I want to
find you know now we’re talking about
passion everybody is going hey I want to
find my passion you know I want you know
and it’s this how do you actually find
it like how do you know when you know
yeah this really depends on how much of
a thinker you are the the the more of a
thinker you are the harder it is to farm
because you’re too analytical and this
this is my problem too I like to think a
lot and really but listen to your heart
and so some people some people leave
with their heart and and they know like
this is my passion forces as my passion
is what I’m going to do no problem and
others have a really hard time figuring
out what it is and so the best thing to
do isn’t to read about it and create
four charts and you know Excel
spreadsheets and you know what I that I
was trying to do plus plus and minus you
know take a piece of paper yes month
exactly right that’s that’s failure man
that’s failure the best thing to do is
just to try say yes better that you that
excite you and try and see what what
sparks you know and this is again it’s
not just business gonna be anything and
here’s an example okay so i wanted to
get active and try some new stuff and so
i picked up three new things
snowboarding rock climbing and salsa
dancing well i’m gonna try it whatever i
have no experience i want to try
something new i’m gonna try those who
think i want rock climbing I hated it
like things getting my crotch I’m afraid
of heights I’m stressing out about
go I don’t want to repeal dad’s like I’m
stressed out I’m not doing rock climbing
it works for a lot of people I love it
it’s cool but it’s not for me snowboard
and I picked up and and I was obsessed I
was obsessed right after I got my own
gear I went I went almost every day like
I would push meeting so i can go
snowboarding if it was a good day and
then after after the first season my
interest was it started to wane a little
bit it didn’t have the passion like I’m
not gonna push like sorry Earl and I
can’t talk to you today right I make up
some excuse and I’d be on the
snowboarding hills well we’re talking I
still love it and I it’s a hobby but
it’s not it’s not going to be something
more and in dancing had picked up and
dancing you know to learn dancing as an
adult is hard when you’re you’re younger
it’s a lot easier and this was salsa I
didn’t know of Spanish I didn’t
understand the music I didn’t have the
timing I’m tall I’m 62 which means I
think big steps which makes it harder to
dance and so you know logically
rationally all the things that you would
look at on your list it doesn’t make
sense I shouldn’t even have tried salsa
dancing but I picked it up and what like
maybe almost 10 years later I’m still
dancing I’m an investor in to a salsa
company here in Toronto I’ll DJ I’ll
spend like 20 hours a week salsa and i
love it like I would be sad if I
couldn’t stop anymore whenever I go
traveling I always try to find a local
salsa hotspot and it was just by trying
it and seeing if I liked it or not so if
you have no idea what your passion is
start to try stuff say yes to me explore
your interested in something don’t don’t
put so much pressure on it to be perfect
right I could have gone to sauce and
said okay I know this is it this has to
be the thing it’s got to make sense i
gotta love with the first time and i’m
gonna you know this has to my next
business and i would have I would have
not done it because there’d be too much
pressure on it to be perfect where it
grew and it became with something I
invested into and it became a big part
of my life though it’s like if you’re
dating somebody you meet them
on the first date and you’re you’re
trying to get married like it can’t
happen right you need you need you see
if there’s a connection you see if
there’s this far right you know that the
freaks and the people who you just are
not going to get along with and then it
builds until I can feel its hooks in
this that’s why they can do it boots and
then maybe you get very creative
relationship but it’s it’s like any
other matter of the heart this is this
is a matter of the heart you have to
feel it if you wake up when you’re
excited to go do something if you’re
pushing meetings and you can’t wait to
come home and work on it then then
you’re doing the right you’re on the
right horse and as long as that keeps up
you have to keep doing it but how does
that work in terms of press their
variance because sometimes you know you
love something but it’s like it’s so
difficult to kind of move forwards
because you know pressure variance is
also very important like entrepreneurial
skill set but you also need passion in
that makes fried yeah so almost every
single business I’ve looked at there was
that like it doesn’t just take off there
is massive perseverance that you need to
have to make your dream come true is
you’re doing something different you
know may not have ever been done before
and you don’t have the skills and
training your expertise and your figure
it out as you go so it’s going to be
hard you don’t have all the answers and
that’s okay the only thing that keeps
you going is the love of what you’re
doing that’s the only thing that keeps
you going your gear and that’s the
passion that’s the passion yeah I think
about so how I got in the speaking like
I love speaking it’s one of my favorite
things to do and the first time I went
to do speaking I was invited by the ymca
here in Toronto to come speak to their
group of entrepreneurs i saw that i told
my business that hey come and speak to
our group inspire them give some ideas i
thought wow this is awesome sure why not
be happy to try that and i spent a
couple weeks preparing my content and i
shared that i was going to this event
and they voted to their people like a
peg I like I focused it share my best
stuff like really changes people’s lives
and I got there the day of we had this
big room and mime sweating my heart’s
beating and like what you know nervous
and I get into the room and my heart
just stops for a second because three
people showed up to this free event and
like man what a downer right like I’ve
been promoting it they had been
promoting it they asked me to come and
speak and it’s free I spent all this
time on this content what the heck man
and you know but then I thought okay you
know what through people showed up I I
prepared my content so let’s do it
anyway whatever I’m not gonna walk out
on the room and and it was awesome I
loved it I couldn’t believe it and and I
knew you know what I have to find a way
to keep doing this and if I looked at it
just from dollars and cents am I going
to make money doing this you might look
at and say well dude you got few people
to show up to a free event how the heck
are you gonna make money off of this
doesn’t make any sense but I loved it so
much that I thought you know what I
don’t know I don’t know how I’m gonna
make money like I gotta I gotta keep
doing it until I find a way because i
love it so much mmm that’s part of
entrepreneurship like you don’t have all
the ants you make your business plan and
then the day you start your company your
business plan has to change it’s never
as you think it’s going to be and that’s
really common that success that gets you
to where you want to go isn’t what you
started with and it happens a lot of a
lot of companies MW started selling
airplanes that’s why their logo is a
propeller right a lot of companies have
had to shift and tip it over the years
but the thing that gets going through is
just your pure passion for what you want
that’s what helps you keep the momentum
it’s hard though I mean this isn’t easy
it’s like hi I just follow your passion
your fine yeah little crazy work it’s
still soul crushing it still makes you
like a dirty secret of entrepreneurship
is you think about quitting regularly
like nobody talks about it you don’t go
to a we don’t have this kind of session
say men you know Waterland I’m just
I’m tired I want to stop this thing I’m
gonna get a job everybody thinks about
it multiple times in their business and
that’s okay like that’s part of the
journey you just have to push through it
and keep going and it tests you that’s a
tactic do you love this enough to keep
going or not what so what I heard from
you earlier is like experimentation is
really important like experiment like
allowing yourself to to sample the
world’s experiment and also when you do
that it’s like it’s like beginner’s mind
right like every time you you try
something new like you go salsa dancing
or maybe you go you know do a Aikido or
Krav Maga session like you you’re a
beginner again and you will suck at it
and you will fail and I guess the reason
why we are a lot of people aren’t doing
their passion is because they’re
terrified of of a failing rather than
the sort of the joy of new experiences
and the taste of of new new life
basically they they’re scared of this
you know what will people say what
people think you know if I lose my my
fancy car I’m a failure you know I’m
gonna have to go kill myself we have all
these like psychological imprints about
how life should be and how it shouldn’t
be and do you agree on the sort of
thoughts on having there why do you
think people are so scared of
experimenting I think the the life that
we have the people you surround yourself
with the education you come up with
holds you in place you to where you are
it’s your mindset and we’re not trained
to step outside that and a lot of times
I mean can make it easier what you need
to do is look at this big ol that you
have this big dream and and like you
said with the elephant start small okay
people just quit too soon and at the
start you got
remember that you are going to sock it’s
your first time doing anything it’s okay
to sock yeah when I first started making
videos it took me a whole day to do one
video I know if you see any videos on my
channel but took me a whole day to do
one video and and it sucked it still
sucked like I spent the whole day doing
it it’s suck the content was okay my
delivery was terrible the lighting was
brutal the sound was terrible and that’s
where most people stopped because it’s
too hard and they realized a sock but
like anything else it comes with
practice right now now I’m like 1200
videos later on my youtube channel i
will sit down on a wednesday and bang
out like 15 of them in three hours those
and they’re way better than what they
were way back but it comes like anything
else at practice the more you practice
something the perator you’re going to
get and so not putting so much pressure
on those early steps and seeing wow that
well that didn’t work out so I’m going
to stop really it’s long as you’re
loving it as long as you’re finding
challenge and you just want to wake up
the next day and do it again if that’s
that’s what you’re feeling then you have
to find what he keep going even if you
saw what i think i think what we’re
hitting on here is an incredibly
important methodology or whatever my
brains trying to come up with something
clever to say but it’s it’s really what
we’re talking about is really really
important because you know the first
three years of my business I felt like
it a complete failure I wasn’t you know
the first year my business did thirty
thousand dollars and then the next year
no fifteen fifty thousand dollars the
first year and then we did a hundred and
I was pissed the off because I was
making a million yeah right I thought
like oh cuz I’ve been reading about
these other entrepreneurs they were
making so much money so fast what I
didn’t knows that they started out as an
entrepreneur as the 12 year old and
their father is an entrepreneur and
there you know they were surrounded in
an environment where they could learn
all these skills and had you know
10 years of training 15 years of
training that I didn’t say I just saw
there like overnight success and and
also the the importance of the
experiment experimentation in finding
your passion and and letting go of these
other things and and and setting that
higher because that’s the kind of stuff
that actually makes you feel alive and I
think when we try to control the world
and inform it to to be as you know
exactly like we want it to be then then
kind of a lot of the air and fun and
becomes kinda becomes a heavy life you
know like when you’re trying to force
everything into existence all the time
instead of a kind of going with and
having some fun playing with it you know
it’s just a company it’s just money it’s
you know all these on that note one of
our viewers Jacob wrote in and he’s
afraid of quitting and so he’s saying
that because he’s so creative quitting
he doesn’t want to start something and
fail which would make him have to quit
right and yeah and that that is scary
right that was my like I was in tears
when I said that I quit on my business
partner but you know what it if you when
you quit and some entrepreneur’s he
never quit you never quit never quite
like you keep going and you never quit
but if you don’t love it anymore then
you quit like that’s when you stop when
you stop loving what you’re doing when
you stop loving what this business is
all about then you have to stop and do
something else you’re waking up and
doing stuff that you hate every day now
and you can’t keep going that’s when you
stop like snowboarding I loved it I
loved it I loved it and then I lost the
fashion for and so I stopped making it a
huge priority and so it’s okay to do
that with your business if you lose the
passion stop doing it that’s okay I
think it’s also about reframing what
quitting is ya like like you can quit a
business but that doesn’t mean you quit
you know experimenting having fun trying
new things like you can
still continue being an entrepreneur
right even though you know as an
entrepreneur you should have lots of
companies that you quit because some of
them just don’t work but it doesn’t mean
you quit you know believing that you can
do something else I think like reframing
how you see quitting can can also be a
good way to move to live life with yeah
I like it I like fantastic so thank you
so much for being on the show and it’s
been it’s been amazing and you know in
terms of finding your passion I think
the part you said about experimenting
and and keep on experimenting and and
you know kind of listen to your listen
to your heart in that process and you’ll
find the most incredible things that are
in fact what’s going to lead to to
innovation and to the best things in
your life and you know personally
allotted Lee that I think the best
things that have happened in my life
have been the sort of crazy things that
I decided to do so I didn’t let fear
override my my action you know I kind of
listen to the the right side of me and
just did it and then just had faith and
you know somehow it kind of works out so
and then thank you so much for being on
the indivisible entrepreneur thanks for
having me it’s been a lot of fun hey ed
four people were watching my broadcast
this where can people find more about
you so you can go to you will never work
again calm where are you why are you
right yeah yeah y ou you never you will
never work in a calm I think that’s
that’s the best place basically I have
three companies the one most relevant to
your viewers is probably mr. outsource
calm because all the ones are based in
the photography world where you know we
do 360 photographs of mr. like spell
error or mr uh yeah Mr outsource
oh yeah and and so basically it’s a
recruitment service for entrepreneurs so
if you if you’re overworked do you need
manpower to help you with some of the
tools that you have it we basically hook
you up with the with the build an
outsourcer in the philippines that’s a
service you launched about about 1 year
ago so so that’s I think that’s the most
relevant thing that the photography
stuff is you know that’s photography
business kind of thing so well that’s
that’s the most relevant all right well
it’s been fun thanks for the time and
it’s been a keeper I was sick when we
initially had this so thank you for we
saw you I thought you maybe you were
snowboarding August so I actually picked
up surfing the other day is there a lot
of surfing in New York yeah you can go
to a Rockaway Beach you get the the
subway for like 40 minutes and there’s
social surfing yeah alright next time in
New York absolutely no Sarah syrup
schools yeah and that is a lots in long
island as well Montauk oh yeah it’s a
crazy place to do but it’s actually here
it’s actually warm in the water compared
to LA where it’s freezin so it’s not a
bad place to go very cool I want to
check it out next time in New York will
do a video going surfing okay let’s do
it that’s good thanks really thank you
much yes
already live your life here we go my
debugger okay i put a start start my
recording now we’re we’re sort of in
different technologies here some skype
fans some GoToWebinar fans and then of
course we have google hangout all right
i’m gonna just hit record here so it’s
actually count i’m using using
ScreenFlow to record the hangouts which
is probably made a little bit retarded
but we’re going to do it anyway so
alerts hi early becca here author of the
international bestseller never work
again and also the host of this this
podcast called invincible entrepreneur
not invisible entrepreneur invincible
entrepreneur where we explore you know
what it takes two to make it as an
entrepreneur and keep on making it
because it can be and it probably should
be a bit of a bumpy bumpy road so today
I’ve invited Evan Carmichael you can you
can see if you’re watching the the
YouTube clip which he is recording with
google hangout which will automatically
be placed on his youtube channel so one
of the things that is great with
interviewing and meeting cool people is
that you learn a lot of things and of
course that’s why i wanted to launch a
podcast where i interviewed the best of
the best so hi and welcome where are you
you signing in from today so i’m i’m
here in Toronto um Toronto Canada born
and raised i spent most of my time here
when I’m not traveling and proud
Canadian yeah like you don’t say aboot a
lot we don’t say a boot no no about
about yeah right so you actually
stumbled into entrepreneurship a day at
a very very young age you started off
selling drawings with your sister and
then you thought you were going to
become a VP VP of a bank but probably
living just in this really tall
expensive building over here working
over there in Wall Street
didn’t it didn’t quite go that way yeah
yeah you did your homework looking at my
bio there about the selling the drawings
it’s interesting when I was younger I
had a lot of entrepreneurial Inklings my
first thing was when I was five and I
took my three-year-old little sister and
would you picture than what door to door
selling oven my neighbor bought my first
one for five or ten cents and you knows
my first official sale as an
entrepreneur and I sold baseball cards
and I had the lemonade stands and all
the things you do as a kid but Mike you
know I didn’t have much worse in my
family my parents weren’t entrepreneurs
I didn’t know entrepreneurs nobody in my
extended family was an entrepreneur and
so I never it wasn’t in my vocabulary to
become an entrepreneur as a profession
is something I did for fun on the side
but I never thought had this is what I’m
gonna do for my life so yeah in high
school I you know they ask you where do
you see yourself in 10 years when you
graduate and gets put your yearbook and
I said I was going to be a VP at a bank
that was always my my dream job you know
I always loved any financial related
stuff on stock competitions and all that
stuff and so that’s why i thought i was
going to end up and when i got to
university I connected with two friends
who had started a biotech software
company and they needed help they had a
great piece of software but it wasn’t
selling because they didn’t like the
cell they wanted to do what they love to
do which was cut code and be in front of
the computer and you know create this
amazing software and so I joined I
thought it was a challenge like why not
you know something to do see if I like
it and and I did and I came on and i was
getting media opportunities and closing
partnerships and bringing on new
customers but it was a slow path and a
member in my first year I was making
three hundred dollars a month with them
yeah it’s like nothing right like Fiona
does a month Wow we’re surviving off of
beans for lunch and yeah yeah I’m in my
last year of university I got
opportunities
to work with McKinsey Consulting and
Merrill Lynch who were like at the top
of my list or like graduating high
school like wow I can go work with these
guys that that’s I hit it I hit a home
run and they they flew me out to New
York and put me up in the Waldorf
Astoria which is a super famous hotel
and they had eighty to a hundred
thousand dollars starting salaries and
here I’m kind of weigh my options
between this dream job I always wanted
and this tiny nothing burger company
that’s making three hundred dollars a
month and something just kept pulling me
to the business and I kept thinking you
know what like I don’t want to regret
this I don’t want to look back on my
life when I’m older and back and say i
really wish i had taken my shot and did
this company and it didn’t make sense
for me my friends and my family was
supportive million fully understand it
and I thought you know what I’m gonna
get myself a year and I’m gonna try this
and I can always go get a job if it
doesn’t work out and and it worked and I
never had to go back and get the job and
it’s funny because a couple years later
I had my friends coming to me and saying
Evan I’m I you know they took those jobs
like I can’t stand my job i’m working a
hundred hours a week you know I want to
start my boss so I get started in my own
company like wow that could have been me
I was so close to on that line so yeah
super you and you’re lucky that’s that
you started that early i remember you
know when i was 14 I I went out and I
got my own got my own job because I
wanted to I wanted independence I want
to make my own money and I was actually
stacking shelves that at a local grocery
store and I just went there and said I
want to work here and they think the
most kind of often looked at me and said
okay you know you can work here and I
remember what they paid but it was like
six dollars an hour i think i wish in
norway you know isn’t that much because
of that I think the South normal salary
in Norway now is like the lowest salary
nori is not twenty dollars an hour like
you can’t legally pay anyone less which
is
kind of high compared to other countries
but when I was 19 I i had the
opportunity of managing a tennis club
and you know they I did they would pay
me well I would learn everything about
you know accounting and selling and
marketing and systems and all these
things that we we learn as entrepreneurs
you know how actual business functions
and works but I actually went and
studied abroad instead I did the sort of
safe safe route and then I found myself
at the age of 26 you know being fired
from my first proper you know proper
consulting you know I was a brand
consultant than London getting fired and
I sort of had to dig deep and find out
Oh what do I really want to do and I
think if I hadn’t been fired probably
would have been working in a job right
now and I wouldn’t have had you know we
wouldn’t be sitting here talking about
it I wouldn’t have written a book I
wouldn’t had started you know multiple
companies and yeah so so you listen to
your inner inner guidance and you said
I’m gonna want to stick with this
company and you’re a so what happened
after that um and that’s a cool story I
love your story too but that’s that’s
really awesome and it is it’s it’s a so
many people have that they feel like
they want to go and do something but
you’re too afraid and so they don’t
think the week where that’s really what
you’re meant to do and you should go you
should go at least explore it and it’s
probably easier to do that so what I
thought about when I when I was fired I
was like okay I have this amount of
money i was living in London and very
expensive apartment for some stupid
reason because I have been trained to to
spend what I spend what I made right if
you can afford this then spend it but
yeah I really had to really have to dig
deep and there was it was hard there’s a
lot of fear but at the same time I
thought okay if I if I wait till later
where I have kids and a mortgage and all
this stuff it’s going to be even more
scary so I kind of felt like now is the
time
yeah you have the same feeling um for me
I think I was fortunate in that I had I
had a family upbringing where my parents
made me believe that whatever I set my
heart and I could accomplish right oh
they may not have encouraged arch burial
side of me but they gave me self
confidence so that if I tried something
I felt like I would find a way to be
successful at whatever and they would
always say you know you’re a kiss truly
Carmichael my mom’s last name is just
really you’re Chris chilly comical you
know you can do you can do this or
whatever it was so that helped and then
on top of it what what really because i
was on the French this wasn’t an easy
decision like I can look back now and
say all that was such a smart decision
but it wasn’t an easy decision I really
struggled trying to figure out what I
want to do and the thing that helped tip
the balance for me was giving myself a
year I said I could do this for one year
but doesn’t work out I will at least
know that it wasn’t for me and I wasn’t
gonna be successful at it and I can go
back and get that job don’t wasn’t like
I was throwing my whole life away but I
huh like if I want to get the job I
couldn’t go and try this so that given
myself a year really made it less risky
and easy me to take that leap what do
you call that how do you eat an elephant
strategy one piece of that one cruise at
a time yeah and I’m so Jeff Bezos the
founder of Amazon he calls it the regret
minimize minimization framework where
when he was going to start amazon he was
in his 30s and he was an investment
banker and was one of the he was the
youngest ever VP at his company and on
the fast track to become a superstar in
his business and he laughed and sold
everything he had to start amazon at a
time where nobody knew what the internet
was and little commercialize in it and
he was walking home as mentor as they
said like you’re crazy what are you
doing why is this your you have it all
made man your will faster than anybody
else and
said I just I don’t want to live with
regret I fast forwarded to his life at
70 and when people are you know on their
death bed and thinking back on their
life they number one thing is they
regret they didn’t take more chances and
they regret they didn’t follow their
passion and so he knew that person and
so you went and he launched amazon and I
could have blown up in his face but at
least he would know that he tried and
that’s what the same thing I want to
know that I try to give it my best just
to have an answer not live with regret
yeah and one the United of time I can I
can relate to that as well actually the
so I’ve I’ve been in business now for
seven years and I have definitely the
first four years were like okay I want
to do this one year and then I came to
the end of the year I was like wow this
is this is a lot more difficult than I
thought wow you know cuz you trying to
like do everything you’re trying to like
understand the accounting rules there’s
so many things that you haven’t thought
about um we’re actually kind of scaring
people in fit for this interview so far
I think but there’s so many things you
haven’t thought about like like you know
what are the rules and regulations for
you know somebody gets ill in your
company do you have to you know pay them
money still or you know how does that
work like there’s so many little details
that you don’t think about before you
start and I just remember that first
year for me of being like a massive
learning curve you know trying to study
trying to learn and trying to learn and
also like do the work and deliver the
product and but having that like one
year perspective for me was definitely
also very very good thing to do so so
that first year and then what happened
then what happened yeah so you know so i
made this decision like okay I got a
year to do it and didn’t want to have
made a huge mistake and yeah turned back
those jobs so it was really stressful
and really hard and and we struggled a
lot and it’s funny because when I when I
was in high school my my
worst subject with science I hate it
sorry sucked at science I dropped it as
soon as I could and here i was running a
science company my teachers laughing at
me and saying you know you’re never
gonna make that mmm and we struggled and
we got to the point where like we were
trying everything we could think of and
my partners were young too and and
nothing was working out you know like
nothing was working at work any momentum
and it started feeding down on my
self-worth you know like I’ve been
really successful everything I had done
in school and sports and projects and
here i was like poor and everything I
had and I’m not getting any momentum
like you take that for so long before
you start to feel hmm like you have no
value like I’m a smart person and why am
I not getting more s than this Vidya
ridiculous you know and it got to the
point number one day I was talking to my
business partner we’re at a family event
and we were starting to disagree over
where we should go we should do like
we’re trying everything and she’s not
working and I remember I told him on the
phone that you know what I can’t handle
this anymore I quit and I’ve done I’m
gonna do something else because like
Mecca my time is being sucked dry here
my soul is crushed and I hadn’t you know
I wasn’t a quitter I never quit on
things before and I hung up the phone
with him and I just started bawling like
cry my eyes out for 20 minutes and you
know just hear myself say that I quit I
put all this work in this business it
didn’t take off and I remember my mom
came up and she put her hand on my
shoulder I don’t remember what she said
yeah I was just lost and that was
definitely the low point that was like I
felt like I made the biggest mistake of
my life I felt like I was totally
worthless and and the next day I woke up
when I thought like I can’t quit I gotta
I gotta I gotta do something to make
this happen to make this work because
how
doing it now is not is not working we
tried everything to think that when it’s
not working and the change like I could
have quit there but the change that
sparked the growth for us was when I
realized that I’m not the first guy to
try to sell software before and I don’t
have to figure everything out myself and
there was no we were in bioinformatics
software is really niche thing and there
was no you know huge company to model
but I figured you know I’m going to
widen the net and look at software in
general and I looked at Microsoft and
mcafee and into it companies that I
admired in the software space looked at
how they got started how did they get to
their first million dollars 021 that’s
what I wanted to do like how Bill Gates
makes his action millions now I don’t
care about like 0 to 1 that idea that
getting this first big deal I wanted to
do that and I looked at their stories
and sort of applying what worked for
them to my business and that’s a growth
and Microsoft’s strategy was through
partnerships and alliances any time they
enter the new market was sooo and i
found the partnership way to do it
they’re big deal came with IBM when they
sold every IBM computer had to have
Microsoft’s offer on it that was a view
that exploded them but they’re already
accept that there’s also a question
about that so um the IBM deal so how
it’s depicted in a lot of documentaries
and books is like that was the you know
you know the sort of it’s a bit
glamorous I think it’s the the pirates
of Silicon Valley it kind of shows how
they you know they’re in the dorm room
and then suddenly they’re doing this big
deal with IBM right so did they have
more partnerships and on successful
partnerships before they kind of hit it
large or did so Microsoft was already a
seven million dollar company when they
made that deal with IBM okay I didn’t
know that like seven million dollars
that’s not a huge company it’s not
anywhere close what Microsoft is now but
it’s still a seven million dollar
comfort that’s still that’s not a
nothing company still something that was
that was in the 80s and they and they
made that seven million dollars to
partnerships another line then basic
they partnered up with hardware vendors
because IBM was the biggest at the time
it wasn’t the only and only one and and
they shipped their computers with
Microsoft’s offer on it and so some of
the companies didn’t work out you know
their very first deal was with the
company named mints who had a computer
called the Altair and still gates saw
this i’ll tear on the cover of a
magazine and called up mitts and said
hey we’ve got software to run on your
computer where they hadn’t even done any
coding at all and it said okay come and
show us and they had like two weeks to
to create the code for this computer
that they didn’t even have access to
didn’t you have a mid saltaire they had
to use other computers and they showed
up at the meeting and put the saffron
and hope that it would work and it did
work luckily I know your first deal and
then they kept doing that partnership of
the partager of the Mirage it and so I
thought man that’s an interesting
strategy I mean how can I use that like
it worked for the biggest software
company in the world at the time how can
I use that to help my business and so I
started looking for other companies that
were already selling to our target
audience we’re selling the scientists
and I want to find other companies sell
the scientists introduce myself and say
hey maybe there’s a way we can work
together yeah i was at bottom I had
nothing else to lose I was like in
desperation mode so I’ll try anything
why not you know give it a shot and and
within two weeks I had my first deal
with a company that paid us 13 and a
half thousand dollars and now I mean
that may not be a lot of money but but
to me 13 and a half K when I make it 300
bucks a month that was like that was
celebration that was big time you know
we were making but more important than
just the 13 a half thousand dollars we
had finally some kind of momentum going
ending me a strategy to now use to close
more deals but gave me the framework so
i can go phils another deal another deal
another deal
so I kept feel or these partnership
deals to bring in business for us yeah
that’s how our company started to take
off and we’ve started achieving success
and basically two years after that we
got acquired pretty fast rapid growth so
just took him from buildings
partnerships they kept in growing and
I’m total partnerships that I mean that
was a turning point I kept a little more
partnerships started getting the media
started you know getting known within
our industry turning our founder into an
expert like a recognized expert and
closing more deals and and we ended up
closing deals with NASA and Johnson &
Johnson and we had customers in over 30
countries wow that led to our rapid
growth and then eventual acquisition of
but like you know it was a year of
struggling and I met and failure and the
samos didn’t work out it though yeah the
Tony Robbins one of this one of his
sayings is success leaves clues yeah
right so somebody misses a book called
borrowing brilliance which is actually
one of my most favorite books in
business because it’s like just look at
what other people are doing yeah if they
can do it and make money doing something
that means you can do the same and also
make money no but I guess we’re trained
in school 22 first of all think like
employees IE you know go to school and
pick up a big loan and and study and
then you know buy a house and have an
even bigger loan so you’re basically a
prisoner of your debt I think society is
a little bit engineered that way but
we’re also told that you know copying is
bad right so like modeling something
that somebody doesn’t business is bad
like you should feel bad if you do it
but like borrowing a strategy like you
did like like you know plagiarism isn’t
good right like stealing somebody’s like
unique brand or you know something that
you need to put your innovation in it
but
borrowing brilliance is a good
entrepreneurial skills that you agree
yeah I mean I call a modeling success
but foreign really great as well and you
have to adapt it to fit your company
obviously you know I go to IBM and say
hey let’s sell such scientific software
on every argument ships but yet them
about it did you know fit your plan I
think the biggest just the idea from
there is you don’t have to come up with
every idea yourself as entrepreneurs
we’re trying to do everything and we
learn to do every single thing in our
businesses we’re starting hmm but you
don’t need to come up with every genius
idea like entrepreneur’s we pride
ourselves on being innovative and
visionary and I’m going to be creative
and come up with this new solution
that’s all right that’s what we do is
our innovators we’d like coming up with
new ideas but you don’t think I with
every single new idea and you can adapt
other ideas and make them fit your visit
was the big shift for my go up and its
really take off yeah and do you find an
iphone highly innovative or is it just
put together in a way that works well um
i think for entrepreneurs ep.6 actually
have to be innovative our top where was
highly innovative but we were doing one
who create was highly innovative the the
marketing of it even the partnerships
that I pursued was innovative I hadn’t
been done by any of the people are any
of our competitors they weren’t doing
this so we were innovative in our field
but that idea yeah um Microsoft we’ve
done it you know 20 years really yeah
yeah I love the like on the macbook you
have the magnetic plug Steve Jobs saw a
rice cooker in Japan that had the
magnetic plug and that’s why the max
have magnetic plugs oh so it’s kind of
like you know kind of seeing something
and then combining it in a new way which
then is innovation yeah when I’m
advising on I love that story by the way
I didn’t know that so I’m learning
something new to it’s great um my advice
when Marlon success is to why
look at the whoever’s the biggest person
biggest company in your general industry
and look at how they got started and the
bigger the company is easier it is to
model and find out what their story was
you can learn about Bill Gates at any
library or Wikipedia lots of places
online so it doesn’t have to be you know
specific to your product but a little
bit wider and find the top company look
at their success stories in the
beginning the other one though is then
fine who’s your favorite entrepreneur
you know look up if you look up the
Steve Jobs or Richard Branson or Bill
Gates or you know Rockefeller or whoever
it is look at how they got started
because it have may not have anything to
do with your industry but you can learn
from their success and the more you feel
connected to the entrepreneur and the
more you love their story the more
likely you’re going to follow through on
the strategy that may seem crazy or
counter and too little but never been
done in your industry before but you’re
willing to do it because you’re going to
be the next John Rockefeller Donald
Trump or whoever it is so there’s a lot
you can learn from inside you and you
see but also outside just by looking at
our chores you look up to that’s also
one of the things that you’ve dedicated
a large part of your blog to is is
modeling looking at what successful
people there is their story and how they
started how they mood and I mean you
went from from starting a company to
sell any company in three years yeah is
which is an incredible short amount of
time really to to kind of go from start
to sell what what do you when you when
you’re working in the venture capital
industry typically how long did it take
for companies to build and sell so if
you are going to a VC they usually want
to be in and out within eight years I
start within five years and in ain’t
investors looking at the internet within
eight years um so you know that’s kind
of a general timelines a lot of
companies who will be around for 20
years and never get out that’s not part
of the plan just wanted to be a family
business and passed from generation to
generation generation for us the thing
that really made the difference was
if you look at industries you’ll often
find that when there’s only a few big
players there’ll be a lot of innovation
and the market will expand and newcomers
will pop up and there’ll be lots of you
know new competition come out of the
market and then over time when there’s
lots of competition the name she starts
to consolidate and the big players start
buying up all these small companies so
you see these waves happening in almost
every industry where there’s a lot of
competition and then the companies buy
them up and then there’s no innovation
and new innovation pops up so in our
industry at the time we were just
starting to see consolidation so the big
companies were coming in and if you want
to get a good price tag for your
business you want to sell when people
are buying right just make sense um and
so we had a decision to make of do we
want to sell now or we all want to wait
for the next cycle to come along which
may be in the eight or ten years before
we’ll have the right price again so that
was one factor the other one was my two
business partners really wanted to move
to the to California is like their life
dream California living and being the
Canadian you can’t just move the
California we have a fairly flexible
visa we can spend you know half a year
there but you couldn’t live there and be
you know citizens on your own as an
entrepreneur you need to be sponsored
you need to have a company get you there
and so by selling to a California
company my two business partners were
able to move to California and still
live in the US so ah you know it’s hard
to tell your business partners no do not
follow your dream do not move the
California we’re doing this here if they
get to the the golden conflicts what we
call it I golden oh they’re the marriage
yes yeah no did they have to work for
the company for a while or they did they
both have moved on from that company I
mean it makes sense you know the
technical people um they had to
integrate the software with the company
that was buying us so there
work that had to be done but they also
wanted to go to California and so they
worked there for I think it’s two years
and then started doing other projects
and so they both want us to start other
projects separately which which is great
too yeah that’s it so you work in
venture capital and and now and then you
started your your blog and and tell us
about how you generate money in that
spare of business how do you how do you
make money on a blog Ryan speaking all
this stuff here and even the jump to
venture capital was not an easy decision
you know I sold my business and then I
was depressed like I don’t know what you
with my life anymore I woke up every day
and went to work and pushed hard to get
this business going and now all of a
sudden it’s gone I didn’t know what I
wanted to do and I kind of struggled and
jumped around and I just started saying
yes to things and I think if you don’t
know what your passion is you start
saying yes and trying things out in I
need to find something that you fall in
love with the BC world wasn’t something
necessarily super love I was curious
about it I never needed venture capital
for my business we thought about it but
we didn’t need it and I wanted to learn
more about that industry so that’s why I
hooked up with a b c company here in
Toronto um I remember keeping like a
little journal of what I was doing in
the day and just trying to think of you
know what do I get excited by and there
was another kind of depressing time in
my life ah those are the two though not
that that other like major ones but but
Jana business seems super happy I’m it’s
a good problem to have it’s a good
problem but it was still a problem
anyway um I started my website right
after I sold my business maybe even just
before so pipe is I have to go back on
the way back Time Machine and check it
out uh but it started as a resource for
entrepreneurs because when I not Bill
Gates story that that one strategy from
bill gates saved my business
like noon gonna quit that was it and
Bill Gates save my business without you
know me ever meaning here and so I I
figured like you know I was I was a
smart student I learned everything i had
to going through school and I couldn’t
figure this thing out after working
really hard and I figured you know
there’s a lot of other entrepreneurs
with the same way like they’re they’re
smart and you know they studied and they
tried to figure things out and they’re
not having success and I stumbled onto
it you know wasn’t that lightbulb moment
came in massive desperation and I
figured other people could learn from
that success to without having to go
through my crazy failure you know they
could just learn from my hand applied to
their business and so I started off like
to share famous stories of entrepreneurs
and how they got started in the largest
resource online of telling things
entrepreneur stories there early swords
Holly launched and how they created
their empire there was never a
monetization strategy behind it it was
just I want to help other entrepreneurs
not suck as much as I did trying to get
this thing and when i joined the VC
world I kept creating some of that
content and then also created articles
about raising capital as a way that
generate leads or the venture capital
business eventually I discovered a
program called Adsense that was in the
early days of Adsense and what year was
that um what year was that that’s a good
question okay so i sold my business in
2002 so it’d be just after back 2003
somewhere in my bed okay um yeah I
wasn’t like the first guy on accent so
people doing it but it wasn’t like
widespread everybody’s on it and I and I
just tested it out and eventually saw
that hey if I optimize this and I’ve had
more content you know you can make some
money doing this hmm and and I really
enjoyed helping entrepreneurs and I got
to the
point why I felt like with the VC
business I was there for a year and a
half two years and I started to feel
like I had learned what I needed to
learn and I was ready to move on to
something else and so I started spending
more time on my website and doing
interviews and creating content and
turned that into its own business um and
then been doing that for 12 years 11
years or something like that so full
it’s shifted and changed as my interest
has grown in various areas but um yeah
it’s been a fun it’s been a fun ride and
how is that industry changed since like
two thousand three like this speaking
the information marketing how have you
seen it evolve over time um because it’s
such a low barrier to entry there’s a
lot of people who have jumped in on it
which isn’t um there’s a lot of people
who just get into it trying to make
money and and they don’t and it’s funny
when you mean sessions about finding
your passion the people who jump into a
business is trying to make money almost
never do because it’s it’s too hard and
you have to be kind of crazy to be an
entrepreneur but when you’re following
your passion and you do something is
really excites you then the money will
come and if you look at famous
entrepreneurs and why they got started
the richest people in the world why they
got started it was never to make a lot
of money was to have an impact and
follow their passion some sort and money
came one is important we’re not doing
things as a cherry it’s important what I
main reason and so a lot of people jump
into the the articles of the you know
creating you guys or that kind of
digital marketing I’m just trying to
make money and they create a lot of
crappy product keys and confusion for
the poor people avoid any confusion yeah
and frustration you know and people buy
something they don’t it’s you know not
great it wasn’t what they expected
didn’t help them a little less a little
more skeptical before buying the next
day um and I think it just forces people
to have better quality you know if you
want to build a
a business now in this space really it’s
putting the brand for yourself you have
to create a personal brand or business
brand people can connect to and to
fashion about and be known for quality
in your space because there’s so much
crap out there hmm so that’s been fun
like that’s why I do the YouTube videos
and I do your interviews and yeah a lot
of time with social media is building
the brand second with the audience and
as a result people if you talk of the
business side people then hire me that
comes to get their events and they buy
my my products and you know fly me out
to different activities to judge
contacts or whatever it is and I don’t
really do much I don’t really do any
sales like I’m not calling these guys up
and say hey I’m Evan here’s what I do
create the footprint and created enough
noise in my industry that you become a
known quantity and people start coming
to you looking for opportunities so
let’s talk about finding your passion
and you’re saying like so old of all the
successful entrepreneurs that you’ve
seen read about talk to it like starting
from a place of like I want to make a
lot of money is not doesn’t really work
right yeah it’s me intuitive it is kind
of you know what I’d like I’m so I
believe it’s so firmly then it’s there’s
still a lot of people who don’t and said
it requires explanation um if you look
at famous entrepreneurs you look at
people who’ve made a lot of money it’s
you look at their story and you see all
the struggle that they have to go
through the only thing that keeps them
going is because they love what they
were doing and it rarely makes rational
sense to start a business you know if
you look at these famous entrepreneurs
it really it didn’t make rational like
for me with my business it didn’t make
rational sense to keep going at this
year in the dollar job versus
a hundred-thousand-dollar go work in
another business company hmm doesn’t
make rational sense and so how do you
defy the rational sense and how do you
defy the friends and the family in your
life to say this is like you the same
thing this is that it’s irrational it’s
listening to your heart and not your
head and that’s where that’s where you
get the motivation to keep going because
if it’s just for the money then you’re
gonna it’s going to be hard you’re going
to come across obstacles and you’re
going to quit because because that’s a
rational smart thing to do I’m not
making money so I’m going to stop it’s
only when you love doing it that your
heart overpowers your head and says I’m
going to keep doing this because I need
to go and I’m going to find other ways
to make money to survive because this is
too important to me so um this’ll be
this big guest but hold on people that
decide to start a business how many do
you think do it like mostly for for
money Allah yeah I don’t know I think
it’s what we’re trained to do from you
know small business classes at school or
from the TV shows that you watch it’s
all about the money but then when you
get out you actually start doing it if
that’s your primary focus you don’t have
success hmm so I mean I think do a lot
more to encourage entrepreneurs I mean
even you like you’re having your own
mark here by having these interviews by
talking sense entrepreneurs and have
been helping them share their stories to
your podcast you’re having your own mark
on your group of people and you’re
you’re helping entrepreneurs learn to be
better and it’s not even entrepreneurs
it’s anything like you want to have
success if I always push people to
become entrepreneurs I love it that’s
what I love but if you want to be an
accountant you better love being an
accountant hmm right like if you could
what you want to be entrepreneurial good
work it kpmg or whatever but you got to
love what you’re doing the people who
are at the top of their field and
anything love what they’re doing if you
go into a
to a job just trying to make money
you’re not going to be successful you’re
not going to become the top person
because you don’t really love what
you’re doing hmm so you want to have
success in anything you have to have the
love and then that will help you rise to
the top and at the top you make money
yeah not that passion without that love
you’re not going to get there so you can
use all you can eat Karen it’s like how
do you so many people yeah I want to
find you know now we’re talking about
passion everybody is going hey I want to
find my passion you know I want you know
and it’s this how do you actually find
it like how do you know when you know
yeah this really depends on how much of
a thinker you are the the the more of a
thinker you are the harder it is to farm
because you’re too analytical and this
this is my problem too I like to think a
lot and really but listen to your heart
and so some people some people leave
with their heart and and they know like
this is my passion forces as my passion
is what I’m going to do no problem and
others have a really hard time figuring
out what it is and so the best thing to
do isn’t to read about it and create
four charts and you know Excel
spreadsheets and you know what I that I
was trying to do plus plus and minus you
know take a piece of paper yes month
exactly right that’s that’s failure man
that’s failure the best thing to do is
just to try say yes better that you that
excite you and try and see what what
sparks you know and this is again it’s
not just business gonna be anything and
here’s an example okay so i wanted to
get active and try some new stuff and so
i picked up three new things
snowboarding rock climbing and salsa
dancing well i’m gonna try it whatever i
have no experience i want to try
something new i’m gonna try those who
think i want rock climbing I hated it
like things getting my crotch I’m afraid
of heights I’m stressing out about
go I don’t want to repeal dad’s like I’m
stressed out I’m not doing rock climbing
it works for a lot of people I love it
it’s cool but it’s not for me snowboard
and I picked up and and I was obsessed I
was obsessed right after I got my own
gear I went I went almost every day like
I would push meeting so i can go
snowboarding if it was a good day and
then after after the first season my
interest was it started to wane a little
bit it didn’t have the passion like I’m
not gonna push like sorry Earl and I
can’t talk to you today right I make up
some excuse and I’d be on the
snowboarding hills well we’re talking I
still love it and I it’s a hobby but
it’s not it’s not going to be something
more and in dancing had picked up and
dancing you know to learn dancing as an
adult is hard when you’re you’re younger
it’s a lot easier and this was salsa I
didn’t know of Spanish I didn’t
understand the music I didn’t have the
timing I’m tall I’m 62 which means I
think big steps which makes it harder to
dance and so you know logically
rationally all the things that you would
look at on your list it doesn’t make
sense I shouldn’t even have tried salsa
dancing but I picked it up and what like
maybe almost 10 years later I’m still
dancing I’m an investor in to a salsa
company here in Toronto I’ll DJ I’ll
spend like 20 hours a week salsa and i
love it like I would be sad if I
couldn’t stop anymore whenever I go
traveling I always try to find a local
salsa hotspot and it was just by trying
it and seeing if I liked it or not so if
you have no idea what your passion is
start to try stuff say yes to me explore
your interested in something don’t don’t
put so much pressure on it to be perfect
right I could have gone to sauce and
said okay I know this is it this has to
be the thing it’s got to make sense i
gotta love with the first time and i’m
gonna you know this has to my next
business and i would have I would have
not done it because there’d be too much
pressure on it to be perfect where it
grew and it became with something I
invested into and it became a big part
of my life though it’s like if you’re
dating somebody you meet them
on the first date and you’re you’re
trying to get married like it can’t
happen right you need you need you see
if there’s a connection you see if
there’s this far right you know that the
freaks and the people who you just are
not going to get along with and then it
builds until I can feel its hooks in
this that’s why they can do it boots and
then maybe you get very creative
relationship but it’s it’s like any
other matter of the heart this is this
is a matter of the heart you have to
feel it if you wake up when you’re
excited to go do something if you’re
pushing meetings and you can’t wait to
come home and work on it then then
you’re doing the right you’re on the
right horse and as long as that keeps up
you have to keep doing it but how does
that work in terms of press their
variance because sometimes you know you
love something but it’s like it’s so
difficult to kind of move forwards
because you know pressure variance is
also very important like entrepreneurial
skill set but you also need passion in
that makes fried yeah so almost every
single business I’ve looked at there was
that like it doesn’t just take off there
is massive perseverance that you need to
have to make your dream come true is
you’re doing something different you
know may not have ever been done before
and you don’t have the skills and
training your expertise and your figure
it out as you go so it’s going to be
hard you don’t have all the answers and
that’s okay the only thing that keeps
you going is the love of what you’re
doing that’s the only thing that keeps
you going your gear and that’s the
passion that’s the passion yeah I think
about so how I got in the speaking like
I love speaking it’s one of my favorite
things to do and the first time I went
to do speaking I was invited by the ymca
here in Toronto to come speak to their
group of entrepreneurs i saw that i told
my business that hey come and speak to
our group inspire them give some ideas i
thought wow this is awesome sure why not
be happy to try that and i spent a
couple weeks preparing my content and i
shared that i was going to this event
and they voted to their people like a
peg I like I focused it share my best
stuff like really changes people’s lives
and I got there the day of we had this
big room and mime sweating my heart’s
beating and like what you know nervous
and I get into the room and my heart
just stops for a second because three
people showed up to this free event and
like man what a downer right like I’ve
been promoting it they had been
promoting it they asked me to come and
speak and it’s free I spent all this
time on this content what the heck man
and you know but then I thought okay you
know what through people showed up I I
prepared my content so let’s do it
anyway whatever I’m not gonna walk out
on the room and and it was awesome I
loved it I couldn’t believe it and and I
knew you know what I have to find a way
to keep doing this and if I looked at it
just from dollars and cents am I going
to make money doing this you might look
at and say well dude you got few people
to show up to a free event how the heck
are you gonna make money off of this
doesn’t make any sense but I loved it so
much that I thought you know what I
don’t know I don’t know how I’m gonna
make money like I gotta I gotta keep
doing it until I find a way because i
love it so much mmm that’s part of
entrepreneurship like you don’t have all
the ants you make your business plan and
then the day you start your company your
business plan has to change it’s never
as you think it’s going to be and that’s
really common that success that gets you
to where you want to go isn’t what you
started with and it happens a lot of a
lot of companies MW started selling
airplanes that’s why their logo is a
propeller right a lot of companies have
had to shift and tip it over the years
but the thing that gets going through is
just your pure passion for what you want
that’s what helps you keep the momentum
it’s hard though I mean this isn’t easy
it’s like hi I just follow your passion
your fine yeah little crazy work it’s
still soul crushing it still makes you
like a dirty secret of entrepreneurship
is you think about quitting regularly
like nobody talks about it you don’t go
to a we don’t have this kind of session
say men you know Waterland I’m just
I’m tired I want to stop this thing I’m
gonna get a job everybody thinks about
it multiple times in their business and
that’s okay like that’s part of the
journey you just have to push through it
and keep going and it tests you that’s a
tactic do you love this enough to keep
going or not what so what I heard from
you earlier is like experimentation is
really important like experiment like
allowing yourself to to sample the
world’s experiment and also when you do
that it’s like it’s like beginner’s mind
right like every time you you try
something new like you go salsa dancing
or maybe you go you know do a Aikido or
Krav Maga session like you you’re a
beginner again and you will suck at it
and you will fail and I guess the reason
why we are a lot of people aren’t doing
their passion is because they’re
terrified of of a failing rather than
the sort of the joy of new experiences
and the taste of of new new life
basically they they’re scared of this
you know what will people say what
people think you know if I lose my my
fancy car I’m a failure you know I’m
gonna have to go kill myself we have all
these like psychological imprints about
how life should be and how it shouldn’t
be and do you agree on the sort of
thoughts on having there why do you
think people are so scared of
experimenting I think the the life that
we have the people you surround yourself
with the education you come up with
holds you in place you to where you are
it’s your mindset and we’re not trained
to step outside that and a lot of times
I mean can make it easier what you need
to do is look at this big ol that you
have this big dream and and like you
said with the elephant start small okay
people just quit too soon and at the
start you got
remember that you are going to sock it’s
your first time doing anything it’s okay
to sock yeah when I first started making
videos it took me a whole day to do one
video I know if you see any videos on my
channel but took me a whole day to do
one video and and it sucked it still
sucked like I spent the whole day doing
it it’s suck the content was okay my
delivery was terrible the lighting was
brutal the sound was terrible and that’s
where most people stopped because it’s
too hard and they realized a sock but
like anything else it comes with
practice right now now I’m like 1200
videos later on my youtube channel i
will sit down on a wednesday and bang
out like 15 of them in three hours those
and they’re way better than what they
were way back but it comes like anything
else at practice the more you practice
something the perator you’re going to
get and so not putting so much pressure
on those early steps and seeing wow that
well that didn’t work out so I’m going
to stop really it’s long as you’re
loving it as long as you’re finding
challenge and you just want to wake up
the next day and do it again if that’s
that’s what you’re feeling then you have
to find what he keep going even if you
saw what i think i think what we’re
hitting on here is an incredibly
important methodology or whatever my
brains trying to come up with something
clever to say but it’s it’s really what
we’re talking about is really really
important because you know the first
three years of my business I felt like
it a complete failure I wasn’t you know
the first year my business did thirty
thousand dollars and then the next year
no fifteen fifty thousand dollars the
first year and then we did a hundred and
I was pissed the off because I was
making a million yeah right I thought
like oh cuz I’ve been reading about
these other entrepreneurs they were
making so much money so fast what I
didn’t knows that they started out as an
entrepreneur as the 12 year old and
their father is an entrepreneur and
there you know they were surrounded in
an environment where they could learn
all these skills and had you know
10 years of training 15 years of
training that I didn’t say I just saw
there like overnight success and and
also the the importance of the
experiment experimentation in finding
your passion and and letting go of these
other things and and and setting that
higher because that’s the kind of stuff
that actually makes you feel alive and I
think when we try to control the world
and inform it to to be as you know
exactly like we want it to be then then
kind of a lot of the air and fun and
becomes kinda becomes a heavy life you
know like when you’re trying to force
everything into existence all the time
instead of a kind of going with and
having some fun playing with it you know
it’s just a company it’s just money it’s
you know all these on that note one of
our viewers Jacob wrote in and he’s
afraid of quitting and so he’s saying
that because he’s so creative quitting
he doesn’t want to start something and
fail which would make him have to quit
right and yeah and that that is scary
right that was my like I was in tears
when I said that I quit on my business
partner but you know what it if you when
you quit and some entrepreneur’s he
never quit you never quit never quite
like you keep going and you never quit
but if you don’t love it anymore then
you quit like that’s when you stop when
you stop loving what you’re doing when
you stop loving what this business is
all about then you have to stop and do
something else you’re waking up and
doing stuff that you hate every day now
and you can’t keep going that’s when you
stop like snowboarding I loved it I
loved it I loved it and then I lost the
fashion for and so I stopped making it a
huge priority and so it’s okay to do
that with your business if you lose the
passion stop doing it that’s okay I
think it’s also about reframing what
quitting is ya like like you can quit a
business but that doesn’t mean you quit
you know experimenting having fun trying
new things like you can
still continue being an entrepreneur
right even though you know as an
entrepreneur you should have lots of
companies that you quit because some of
them just don’t work but it doesn’t mean
you quit you know believing that you can
do something else I think like reframing
how you see quitting can can also be a
good way to move to live life with yeah
I like it I like fantastic so thank you
so much for being on the show and it’s
been it’s been amazing and you know in
terms of finding your passion I think
the part you said about experimenting
and and keep on experimenting and and
you know kind of listen to your listen
to your heart in that process and you’ll
find the most incredible things that are
in fact what’s going to lead to to
innovation and to the best things in
your life and you know personally
allotted Lee that I think the best
things that have happened in my life
have been the sort of crazy things that
I decided to do so I didn’t let fear
override my my action you know I kind of
listen to the the right side of me and
just did it and then just had faith and
you know somehow it kind of works out so
and then thank you so much for being on
the indivisible entrepreneur thanks for
having me it’s been a lot of fun hey ed
four people were watching my broadcast
this where can people find more about
you so you can go to you will never work
again calm where are you why are you
right yeah yeah y ou you never you will
never work in a calm I think that’s
that’s the best place basically I have
three companies the one most relevant to
your viewers is probably mr. outsource
calm because all the ones are based in
the photography world where you know we
do 360 photographs of mr. like spell
error or mr uh yeah Mr outsource
oh yeah and and so basically it’s a
recruitment service for entrepreneurs so
if you if you’re overworked do you need
manpower to help you with some of the
tools that you have it we basically hook
you up with the with the build an
outsourcer in the philippines that’s a
service you launched about about 1 year
ago so so that’s I think that’s the most
relevant thing that the photography
stuff is you know that’s photography
business kind of thing so well that’s
that’s the most relevant all right well
it’s been fun thanks for the time and
it’s been a keeper I was sick when we
initially had this so thank you for we
saw you I thought you maybe you were
snowboarding August so I actually picked
up surfing the other day is there a lot
of surfing in New York yeah you can go
to a Rockaway Beach you get the the
subway for like 40 minutes and there’s
social surfing yeah alright next time in
New York absolutely no Sarah syrup
schools yeah and that is a lots in long
island as well Montauk oh yeah it’s a
crazy place to do but it’s actually here
it’s actually warm in the water compared
to LA where it’s freezin so it’s not a
bad place to go very cool I want to
check it out next time in New York will
do a video going surfing okay let’s do
it that’s good thanks really thank you
much yes
Please follow and like us: