and we are live welcome everybody to
another google hangout super excited to
be back here with you another fun day of
hang us about the begin and we started
off with Jen the fantasy copywriter you
can look her up at this is much Jen
welcome back thank you so much it’s good
to be here your I love the energy it’s
grade the big smile on it’s good yeah
you too I was just thinking that so
what’s the update I mean for people
watching it guess we’ve been if its
first time watching this series it’s
about helping jen build the copywriting
business around her one word which is
fantasy and we’ve been kind of monthly
doing updates and seeing how she’s doing
and helping her along so how are we
doing and happy to help you along yeah
things are going really good um i had a
really awesome month last month got new
three new clients which was really
awesome one of them might be long term
instead of just a project-by-project
basis which is fantastic um and I I
think a big part of it has been i know i
keep talking about celebration it’s kind
of been my theme this year and i really
think that’s helped me out a ton and so
I decided to in the next couple months
create a free course for people to learn
how to celebrate their business I know
I’ve talked about it on blabs with Rishi
and talk about with you and you know
celebrating you know when you got your
hook off to your publisher and you know
all kinds of fun stuff so um anyway I
want to see what I can do to give back
to other people as well as continue
doing my copywriting business so and the
other thing that I’ve been doing which
is I think really been huge for me is
I’ve been kind of changing my strategy
of my videos and like once a week I do a
really good solid um video that really
helps people with copywriting at least
I’ve been trying to do at least one a
week if not every other week um around
like some good tutorial like some good
meaty information for people and one of
the first ones I got a lot of feedback
was I wrote what I did one on how to
write an about page and it was probably
one of the most like quickest um you
know amount of people watch you know
higher amount of people watch it i pick
up slope in a quick amount of time
and so that would actually gave me like
sort of a clue that I was obviously
valuable for people and so I created a
workshop from that and I did it work
shop here locally in Portland and then
that got me one of my new clients so
obviously it was really successful so
there’s a lot in there that’s
interesting I like it the first thing
that I’m thinking of is one uh could you
structure the business of that the
ongoing work is a part of what you do so
it’s part of your business model and
that like you are booking off instead of
just saying hey hire me to write your
about page it’s it’s like part of the
sales process is that they’re gonna
they’re gonna be with you and that’s
your business models like am I will work
for you for five hours a week on all
your copywriting needs or whatever it is
yeah so that you have that more built-in
it’s like I think okay so our first
project will be writing the about page I
think it’ll take us 10 hours to do it or
whatever it is so you get it done in two
weeks but then it’s is it’s built in to
your process that that’s the business
model and then it’s up to them to kind
of step out of that if they don’t like
it yeah I like that idea I’ve never
thought about that sort of an ongoing
smellman hours uh that’s a cool idea
that would help me for continuing
relationship with people i’m doing
long-term business and rather than
having to always get new clients all the
time right and it may be on you to also
come up with what they should work on
next so somebody’s hiring you do the
about page great okay well you know look
at your product description page and
look at your home page and look at your
newsletter and like all of this stuff
needs to have better copy in if they
understand their pain points then it’s
then it’s just a matter of like
prioritizing okay but we need to get it
all done what am i working on next week
right I like that idea i think that’s
one of the reasons why the UH the
workshop did so well is because she you
know she came to kind of learn from me
how to write a bat page because she had
a need for it she wanted to do it for an
event she was going to and by the time
we were done she was kind of like I
brother
have you do this my for me you know so
um it kind of highlighted to her I think
you know the detailed process that it
would take that she wasn’t wanting to do
but also like how important it was so if
I kind of went over other projects that
could be next I like that idea um cuz he
have the same thing happened I when I
did a blab with Jason I mean he was like
um that’s awesome for you just do it for
me so I mean obviously that’s working
you know it’s working for me so I like
that idea yeah I think if people see as
they see copy as a valuable part of
their business then having somebody on
hand to help them work through their
projects mm-hmm would be helpful and not
just see it as okay well you have a
great about page but the rest of what
you’re selling all your marketing
communications suck you just a really
great page like maybe that’s not enough
right like yeah you need and I get you
can’t have you can’t afford to hire
full-time copywriter but you can have me
for five hours a week or whatever it is
to you with all your stuff and over time
will knock out all the problems that you
have and copy in your business yeah at
least having it as a part of like I
would set that up as the default way to
work with you and if they don’t like it
then you can go back to just doing
piecemeal kind of work yeah I like that
idea a lot and it’s funny because I’m in
the middle it’s one of things I really
want to do is make the work with a page
of my website a little better cuz you
know it doesn’t you know all when people
want to work with me it’s basically
because they were in contact with me for
a different you know project or another
um so yeah I could even include that on
my work with me page to make it like
kind of the default choice yeah when I
work with a brand like if I’m working
with sage or Microsoft or whoever it is
it’s always with an eye towards doing a
year-long project together okay that’s
the default thinking going in and maybe
we do one thing as a trial but I also
tell them like you know one is not going
to really get you the results that you
need with your business it has to be an
ongoing commitment for you to get what
you want out of it too so some people
still just want the one so find the
sweat ends up happening but more often
than not
they’re coming to you because you’re the
expert and they trust your opinion and
your your judgments and so that’s the
best way to do it then a lot of people
will just like you won’t even question
it and let just go ahead and now
suddenly you’re making money every month
from these clients instead of piecemeal
and you got to follow up and say hey
have anything for me this one yeah right
right it’s kind of big thin I like that
it’s funny because one of the reasons
why i thought the about page would be a
good place to start is because a lot of
entrepreneurs ated I you know that is
all they don’t really have me be a full
website even um I’m thinking about some
of the networking groups and I belong to
like locally that’s kind of I was like
that’ll be a good workshop because they
don’t you know they a lot of them just
don’t have their own website they might
have like I’m their own like newsletter
or something like that but they don’t
really set up for something so I thought
that’s a good place to start but you’re
right i think i could have highlighted a
little bit they’re like okay here’s some
of the next things we can work on right
yeah so giving them the list of where to
focus on next right it was not like
they’re in pain everywhere the visuals
solve one problem but they may have
multiple problems that maybe they didn’t
even realize and then you can help them
out with and that this is a typical way
that you work with clients like i want i
want every part of your business to be
better to have better copy and we’ll
start with the most pressing areas and
then we’ll work our way through yeah so
it’s good to give them something like if
they really want to work in the about
page and there’s something high leverage
because they’re going to go speak in an
event every we’re gonna check out their
about page then that’s like that’s the
easy way in that’s the first most
pressing painful project and hopefully
get some results from that pretty
quickly but they recognize the value of
you having you on board for longer term
and as you get more and more of those
clients you can start increasing your
rates or selling product or bringing on
a junior copywriter under you you know
having clients willing to pay you money
is a good problem to have right there’s
multiple solutions I agree the second
thing that came out of that for me was
you’re getting clients from these
workshops that you’re doing and so one
it’s how can i increase the workshops
like how can you do more of them who the
good
business partner for you not not like
taking a percentage or anything but it
adds value to their base right so if you
if you want to target local people I
don’t know how far you would go like
you’re in portland I’m of Seattle’s too
far you know what makes sense for you
but local local business coaches local
website SEO people local Chamber of
Commerce many local business groups
maybe local business improvement
associations any of those people even
even potential you know lawyers or
accountants base anybody has a business
owner or marketer as a client you could
go in and help them so if you put on a
free workshop to help them with a
certain problem that could be value add
to their clients as well and it doesn’t
have to be a sales pitch it doesn’t have
to be like here’s why you need to hire
me uh it’ll deal just it’ll just happen
like people will see your expertise and
then I’ll run some of them will just try
to do themselves and others were just
like you’ve had that experience that you
know what uh how much would it cost for
you to do it right just like
that I mean I was just expecting to have
helped regular herself and yeah I think
you’re right if I go and that’s a great
idea to talk to I’m like for example web
developers is a great suggestion because
I’ve had a couple copy means with with
those people because they you know they
they get frustrating because they’re
waiting on their clients to give them
copy if they’re doing any website for
them and and then their project gets too
late if that person has a written copy
and so then sometimes they write copy
for them which isn’t really their
expertise they don’t like it they don’t
like doing that but they’ll do it just
with the project along um and so they
often will work with copywriters but
like the idea of going and talking to
their clients that’s an awesome idea
yeah we’re or having them do a workshop
like yeah let’s put on a workshop for
your clients I’m going to come in and
talk about how to write a great about
page and hopefully this leads some more
work for you because they’re gonna need
someone to design the about page for
them and you just gives value and I’m
just trying to get my name out there and
I want to I want to form an alliance
with you and I want to give before I
take anything right if they can do a
workshop and they bring ten of their
clients out and
you know you’re gonna have a pretty good
hit rate these are people have already
paid money to hire professional website
designer so they understand the value of
bringing people on board their team is
it’s not like some brand new startup who
doesn’t have any budget for anything but
loves all your ideas um yeah and then
repeat like why wouldn’t a lawyer want
the same thing you know like a lawyer to
be able to give back to their business
owner audience and you could write about
how to you know how to impact somebody
with the next flyer that you put out or
copy that needs to be on your LinkedIn
bio or you know how to write a homepage
that is really appealing to people um
you know that’s value add to the lawyer
to introduce to his audience our
audience um and helps put you in front
of people who have budget to afford a
lawyer so they great that’s afford a
copy right here yeah that’s a great idea
um and then the third thing that came
from that is you got some results by
meeting people in person and walking
them through how to do this about page
and then then realizing how much work it
is so they don’t want to do it
themselves and they want you to do it
right now I’m wondering how can you
replicate that and now thinking about
your social channels so that it doesn’t
always have to be you in person doing
that or why can’t I watch your youtube
video and get that same feeling okay
right like do I why can’t I watch your
YouTube like give the same amount of
value away in a YouTube video where I’m
learning a lot and realized wow jen has
an insane amount of value to add and a
lot of people just take that and run
with it and try to do it themselves and
that’s cool like those people would
never buy from you anyway right right
but others who are maybe further along
and have some budget would realize you
know what I don’t like I value my time
more than I value the money so I’m gonna
hire somebody to do it and Who am I
gonna hire gonna hire the person who’s
video i’m watching and maybe feel that
way
right so you’re already like you already
have the skills you’re already doing it
when you’re meeting with them
face-to-face or via blab but it’s still
like you connecting one on one it’s how
can you translate that same feeling to
your YouTube videos so that when i watch
that I’m still getting that same kind of
connection and message when I like
people after they meet with you may feel
overwhelmed like this is just an insane
amount of value and work and I don’t
want to put in that work I’d rather have
you do it right how do you get that same
feeling of overwhelm and value at the
end of watch one of your YouTube videos
that I’m like you know what I don’t want
to do this this more work than I thought
i get the value I don’t want to do this
I just want to hire Jen right and so
then you end up getting leads via the
web instead of having to do all the
local events and partnerships yeah no I
love that idea because I mean a lot of
my you know perfect customer just don’t
look right here in Portland so it’d be
great to be able to work with people
across the country yeah it’s funny
because I think you actually are
highlighting something I’ve sort of been
debating because I i did a video a
couple weeks ago about how to edit your
copy and you know it was really valuable
video and I kept thinking to myself
maybe it’s too long because ended being
like 10 minutes but I couldn’t figure
out how to make it shorter I mean I
really I kind of was I moved along
quickly and I gave some really good tips
I couldn’t figure how to do it other
than breaking up into chunks now I was
like you know what I’m going to go ahead
and put all together as one video and
just see how it does um and it’s been ok
it hasn’t done quite as well as the
about page video but um but that’s
actually a really great concept because
if I make the videos longer um like I
just did another one actually just
posted this morning on how to name
something and I I feel like it is if it
is a really long video that might just
feel like okay I get it this is a
process I’m gonna hire John rather than
make it like my about page video was
super short like I made it really sharp
of my idea was that I was going to kind
of tease them into downloading the
freebie from me and then you know
hopefully you know you know hiring for
me from the tease but me
wasn’t enough maybe I should have done a
longer about page video I don’t know
what’s your thoughts on that I know you
know the length of the video is kind of
controversial for me it’s it’s really
about the value and and I eat it the
most popular video on my channel is
still a 40 minute long video yeah almost
2 million views maybe it’s over 2
million views now I don’t know 40
minutes long you know and I look at some
of the other channels that are in my
space and they’re going shorter and
shorter and I was talking to other
people there the Gaia if we if we posted
videos more than 45 seconds long we lose
all their attentions like that’s nuts
like you know some videos can be 45
seconds long but if video should be as
long as it needs to be right as long as
you’re not repeating yourself and saying
the same thing over and over and over
again you know uh you go to a Tony
Robbins event and and his stuff is like
weekends long right all day long yeah I
Mountain telling him listen Tony you got
to crunch that down into half an hour or
10 minutes or five minutes you know so
sometimes it’s not possible i think the
challenge though with with the long
videos as people most people can’t
provide consistent value for an hour or
half an hour or 20 minutes or whoever
long it is you end up repeating yourself
and it’s not good quality stuff we’re
really what you said in 30 minutes could
have been said in seven so say it in
seven like just like coffee long copy
for the sake of length is not great but
if every word is meaningful and
impactful and fantasy and makes people
feel something then the copies as long
as a copy needs to be so i think i think
for that the topic doesn’t sound is
interesting for me if i’m comparing
those two like you had how did how to
make a great about page versus how to
how to edit your copy yeah as a business
owner i get to how to make a great about
page right edit my papi is probably a
big problem but i don’t see it as a
problem
yeah well I’m Nancy right I was thinking
I would sort of the baton to myself how
do I make this more sound more
interesting but I didn’t know how to
because I mean really when you edit your
copy it’s like that’s kinda like the
difference between like it you know like
a first draft obviously in the finished
traffic all these like elegant touches
and make it much more interesting to
read and I mean there were some useful
stuff in there like um so I know what
you mean though the title sounds boring
um so unless your rider you might not
get it right as a busy entrepreneur you
know I’d obviously know you but
otherwise if I wouldn’t watch the video
game yes I don’t feel like it’s a
pressing need we’re fine they’re sitting
like on my I have a conference coming up
everybody’s gonna hit my about page I
hate how it looks I don’t know what to
write for my bio like that’s more of a
pressing need um yeah I think if you
changed it around you get better results
yeah I think that’s a more search term
friendly like somebody’s typing in like
how do i fix my belt page right probably
not searching for how do i edit my copy
better yeah unless you’re talking to
editors right like that’s something that
they care about but maybe that’s not the
audience that you want to reach not
really yeah you’re right I think and I
could have still kept the same content
and just maybe had a different better
title like you know how to put the
finishing touches on your website pages
to make them really awesome or whatever
like you know um that’s a really good
point and actually someone else was
telling me that you know I could go back
and read rename a lot of my youtube
videos to make it more interesting
because a lot of I titles are at the
heart the bass aren’t the most
searchable um where is the how to write
an about page probably is right and
thinking about that video you did
recently of where were you in whole
foods yeah and walking around like
showcasing the product names and
descriptions that you really liked yeah
especially for you as a copywriter you
need your names to be noteworthy right
talk about worthy so that if somebody
was landing on on your page like if I’m
looking at hey I want to hire somebody
to help me with my LinkedIn bio I’m
gonna look at your LinkedIn bio
right I’m gonna look at your about page
I can look at your YouTube video titles
on right like that’s just by the nature
of the industry that you’re in that’s
what I’m gonna look at yeah right if
there’s somebody talking with ya right
the somebody’s talking about how to be a
great youtuber and they don’t have a
popular YouTube channel well what I’m
gonna you know I don’t want to somebody
else so just like you went into whole
foods and talked about you know this how
many thousands of products and whole
foods and you picked out three or four
that really resonated with you but how
they described what was in their product
you want people to do the same thing
where when they land and hit your about
page it’s something that they like man
that’s that’s a cool about page it’s
different how how she wrote about
herself I want something like that for
me right okay cool I love it really good
points great we got some questions
coming in roshan is asking uh what’s the
best and worst moment of being an
entrepreneur oh wow um certain deep
their ocean i know i should take light
topic for this morning i haven’t had
enough coffee today um i mean i would
say probably the worst moment is like
that feeling that you like are going and
deeper and deeper and you can’t get
yourself out and like I know for me like
when I wasn’t noticing all like I wasn’t
getting in clients I wasn’t like I
thought goes doing all the right things
but late wasn’t paying off yet and it
just you know you just have to have
faith and without being able see as I
put it the other side of the forest like
you have to just embrace the forest and
keep going and you know enjoy the time
there and know that it’s gonna know that
it’s gonna pay off i think that was
probably the toughest thing for me
because i felt like you know i felt like
i had to give up i felt like i was gonna
you know go into further debt and i was
never to make money and maybe I me this
huge mistake and um and you know then
things started turning around and I
think the best part for me was when I
realized when I started celebrating I
you know said that at the four million
times but it just made me more aware of
all the things that I was doing so what
I started doing was things like you know
at the end of the day writing down
everything I got done in that day so you
know maybe I didn’t give a new client
you know but I got like ten things done
that I you know never want to be able to
do when I was working full-time
and so um starting all the things I was
doing right and not what is wrong is
what really helped me and made me feel
excited on my business again cool for me
the the worst part was just feeling uh
like I was valueless like I was putting
in all this work and I wasn’t getting
results and wanting to quit yeah
everything before that like if I put in
my time and effort i knew that i would
get meaningful results and here i was
like working hard and not getting
results and so that that sucks like if
you’re not working hard then whatever
you don’t you don’t deserve it too
you’re not really putting the effort in
but we needa put in the effort and
you’re acting anything coming back man
that sucks it makes you feel like just
completely worthless yeah and then the
best part I guess for me like I’m
motivated by impact so just seeing the
comment and you guys saying how you know
you’ve got an idea or your moved by to
you’re motivated now you’re gonna go do
something realize it at the time that
I’m spending is having an impact on
people that that’s that’s the best part
then I get that daily which is awesome
but you need to you know for those
watching need to understand the impact
that you’re having and that’s like
that’s that’s fuel for you to want to
keep going exactly I love it Ravi is
asking how to know between two things is
equally excited about two things how
does he know which one to go for Ravi oh
wow that’s a hard one you know what this
is a really um this comes back to a book
that I read recently that talked about
before I think Perry Marshall wrote this
book called 8020 rule and it’s basically
takes that 8020 roll into further
account and he compares it’s like
everything in your life which is it’s
kind of amazing when you think about it
like you know eighty percent of people
travel in twenty percent of the roads
it’s like this this rule like applies
throughout life but one of the things
that he talks about that I think it’s
just like it’s one of those pieces of
advice that I really stuck with me and
that’s if you are making a decision
about something and you’re not like at
least eight close to eighty percent sure
it’s gonna work out and of course you
don’t know for sure you never know for
sure but you know if your confidence
isn’t like
% you shouldn’t do it because it’s
probably not gonna work out and so I
don’t know if it’s like exactly equal
but if either one of them are eighty
percent like I don’t do it and I think
back on the things in my life when I’ve
sort of been a little unsure and like I
think to myself all i’m seventy-five
percent sure so that’s it’s pretty
likely but that’s not it’s not enough it
has to be closer to eighty percent
because otherwise it probably won’t work
out and that’s totally how it’s been for
me if I’ve been like a little less than
eighty percent sure hasn’t worked out
it’s cuz part of it too i think is your
own confidence in your own excitement
level contributes to that eighty percent
and um I don’t know that’s I thought I
was really a piece of advice for me I
would look at it two ways one I would I
would look first if I’m equally excited
about them can i combine them into one
yeah embrace the end instead of seeing
them as or yeah you like if you love
website development and you love you
know hockey those may seem as two
different things but you can combine
them be the website developer for the
hockey industry and you’ll be the best
yeah you’ll be the best at that like and
if you just try to be a website
developer or you just try to do
something in hockey you’ll always feel
into something missing where if you can
combine those two things nobody can
touch you and so it allows you to be
unique so that helps you stand out in
the customers eyes but it also brings
you more joy so you don’t feel like
there’s something that’s a part of you
that’s that’s missing you have to go
somewhere else to be able to do it I’m a
big believer in combining your passions
to build the ultimate business that
nobody can replicate yeah I love that so
much the other recently I’m stars and so
you talked about that recently within
your video with Ryan Holliday too right
he talked about like pursuing multiple
things and that really helps you get
stay motivated and stay busy I love that
and just like what you said like you can
use your passions and you know in
multiple ways yeah so then the other
part of that I would say is I if I had
to configure out between to look at what
am I most excited finally are you
actually excited by these things that
actually motivate you are you doing it
just because you think it’s an
opportunity I do you enjoy the work like
do you enjoy the process you know like
Jen might be great at
18 and that can yield a great result for
her clients and they get new business or
they get whatever results are on but if
she didn’t enjoy writing mm-hmm it’s not
gonna last like she’s got to be doing
riding on her own she likes to enjoy the
process that doesn’t mean you enjoy
every day is gonna be terrible days yeah
but but often the way to get through a
terrible days to bury yourself back in
the work like the work brings you joy
and too many people are focus just on
the outcome they’re just focusing on the
opportunity they read like entrepreneur
magazine top hundred businesses the star
like oh yeah I go through that one
because it’s hot right it doesn’t that
get it because you don’t like the work
like a nut shouldn’t be work the work
should be fun the work should save you
the work gets you through it so I’d be
looking at those opportunities that you
have in front of you Ravi and see like
do you actually enjoy the work and if
you do then bring both those together to
form the ultimate business I love that
it reminds me two of your that reminds a
little bit of your failure video because
I think about that too like if you’re
willing to fail at something like if you
love it so much that you’re gonna fail
at it and you know you’re gonna feel at
it you’re still gonna want to keep doing
it then you definitely pursue it because
I think because the bottom line is
you’re gonna fail at something it
whatever you pursue somehow some way
you’re gonna fail at it before you get
really good at it and so you have to you
know go into it knowing you might suck
at up for a little bit and as long as
you’re willing to accept that and then
you probably have a passion for it I
love it well we’re already a time it’s
crazy how quickly it goes people who
want to learn about you where they going
uh they can go to you so much calm or on
my youtube channel it’s add video so
much is my channel awesome appreciate
the time again thank you guys for
watching to continue to believe i will
see you see things that it yes
another google hangout super excited to
be back here with you another fun day of
hang us about the begin and we started
off with Jen the fantasy copywriter you
can look her up at this is much Jen
welcome back thank you so much it’s good
to be here your I love the energy it’s
grade the big smile on it’s good yeah
you too I was just thinking that so
what’s the update I mean for people
watching it guess we’ve been if its
first time watching this series it’s
about helping jen build the copywriting
business around her one word which is
fantasy and we’ve been kind of monthly
doing updates and seeing how she’s doing
and helping her along so how are we
doing and happy to help you along yeah
things are going really good um i had a
really awesome month last month got new
three new clients which was really
awesome one of them might be long term
instead of just a project-by-project
basis which is fantastic um and I I
think a big part of it has been i know i
keep talking about celebration it’s kind
of been my theme this year and i really
think that’s helped me out a ton and so
I decided to in the next couple months
create a free course for people to learn
how to celebrate their business I know
I’ve talked about it on blabs with Rishi
and talk about with you and you know
celebrating you know when you got your
hook off to your publisher and you know
all kinds of fun stuff so um anyway I
want to see what I can do to give back
to other people as well as continue
doing my copywriting business so and the
other thing that I’ve been doing which
is I think really been huge for me is
I’ve been kind of changing my strategy
of my videos and like once a week I do a
really good solid um video that really
helps people with copywriting at least
I’ve been trying to do at least one a
week if not every other week um around
like some good tutorial like some good
meaty information for people and one of
the first ones I got a lot of feedback
was I wrote what I did one on how to
write an about page and it was probably
one of the most like quickest um you
know amount of people watch you know
higher amount of people watch it i pick
up slope in a quick amount of time
and so that would actually gave me like
sort of a clue that I was obviously
valuable for people and so I created a
workshop from that and I did it work
shop here locally in Portland and then
that got me one of my new clients so
obviously it was really successful so
there’s a lot in there that’s
interesting I like it the first thing
that I’m thinking of is one uh could you
structure the business of that the
ongoing work is a part of what you do so
it’s part of your business model and
that like you are booking off instead of
just saying hey hire me to write your
about page it’s it’s like part of the
sales process is that they’re gonna
they’re gonna be with you and that’s
your business models like am I will work
for you for five hours a week on all
your copywriting needs or whatever it is
yeah so that you have that more built-in
it’s like I think okay so our first
project will be writing the about page I
think it’ll take us 10 hours to do it or
whatever it is so you get it done in two
weeks but then it’s is it’s built in to
your process that that’s the business
model and then it’s up to them to kind
of step out of that if they don’t like
it yeah I like that idea I’ve never
thought about that sort of an ongoing
smellman hours uh that’s a cool idea
that would help me for continuing
relationship with people i’m doing
long-term business and rather than
having to always get new clients all the
time right and it may be on you to also
come up with what they should work on
next so somebody’s hiring you do the
about page great okay well you know look
at your product description page and
look at your home page and look at your
newsletter and like all of this stuff
needs to have better copy in if they
understand their pain points then it’s
then it’s just a matter of like
prioritizing okay but we need to get it
all done what am i working on next week
right I like that idea i think that’s
one of the reasons why the UH the
workshop did so well is because she you
know she came to kind of learn from me
how to write a bat page because she had
a need for it she wanted to do it for an
event she was going to and by the time
we were done she was kind of like I
brother
have you do this my for me you know so
um it kind of highlighted to her I think
you know the detailed process that it
would take that she wasn’t wanting to do
but also like how important it was so if
I kind of went over other projects that
could be next I like that idea um cuz he
have the same thing happened I when I
did a blab with Jason I mean he was like
um that’s awesome for you just do it for
me so I mean obviously that’s working
you know it’s working for me so I like
that idea yeah I think if people see as
they see copy as a valuable part of
their business then having somebody on
hand to help them work through their
projects mm-hmm would be helpful and not
just see it as okay well you have a
great about page but the rest of what
you’re selling all your marketing
communications suck you just a really
great page like maybe that’s not enough
right like yeah you need and I get you
can’t have you can’t afford to hire
full-time copywriter but you can have me
for five hours a week or whatever it is
to you with all your stuff and over time
will knock out all the problems that you
have and copy in your business yeah at
least having it as a part of like I
would set that up as the default way to
work with you and if they don’t like it
then you can go back to just doing
piecemeal kind of work yeah I like that
idea a lot and it’s funny because I’m in
the middle it’s one of things I really
want to do is make the work with a page
of my website a little better cuz you
know it doesn’t you know all when people
want to work with me it’s basically
because they were in contact with me for
a different you know project or another
um so yeah I could even include that on
my work with me page to make it like
kind of the default choice yeah when I
work with a brand like if I’m working
with sage or Microsoft or whoever it is
it’s always with an eye towards doing a
year-long project together okay that’s
the default thinking going in and maybe
we do one thing as a trial but I also
tell them like you know one is not going
to really get you the results that you
need with your business it has to be an
ongoing commitment for you to get what
you want out of it too so some people
still just want the one so find the
sweat ends up happening but more often
than not
they’re coming to you because you’re the
expert and they trust your opinion and
your your judgments and so that’s the
best way to do it then a lot of people
will just like you won’t even question
it and let just go ahead and now
suddenly you’re making money every month
from these clients instead of piecemeal
and you got to follow up and say hey
have anything for me this one yeah right
right it’s kind of big thin I like that
it’s funny because one of the reasons
why i thought the about page would be a
good place to start is because a lot of
entrepreneurs ated I you know that is
all they don’t really have me be a full
website even um I’m thinking about some
of the networking groups and I belong to
like locally that’s kind of I was like
that’ll be a good workshop because they
don’t you know they a lot of them just
don’t have their own website they might
have like I’m their own like newsletter
or something like that but they don’t
really set up for something so I thought
that’s a good place to start but you’re
right i think i could have highlighted a
little bit they’re like okay here’s some
of the next things we can work on right
yeah so giving them the list of where to
focus on next right it was not like
they’re in pain everywhere the visuals
solve one problem but they may have
multiple problems that maybe they didn’t
even realize and then you can help them
out with and that this is a typical way
that you work with clients like i want i
want every part of your business to be
better to have better copy and we’ll
start with the most pressing areas and
then we’ll work our way through yeah so
it’s good to give them something like if
they really want to work in the about
page and there’s something high leverage
because they’re going to go speak in an
event every we’re gonna check out their
about page then that’s like that’s the
easy way in that’s the first most
pressing painful project and hopefully
get some results from that pretty
quickly but they recognize the value of
you having you on board for longer term
and as you get more and more of those
clients you can start increasing your
rates or selling product or bringing on
a junior copywriter under you you know
having clients willing to pay you money
is a good problem to have right there’s
multiple solutions I agree the second
thing that came out of that for me was
you’re getting clients from these
workshops that you’re doing and so one
it’s how can i increase the workshops
like how can you do more of them who the
good
business partner for you not not like
taking a percentage or anything but it
adds value to their base right so if you
if you want to target local people I
don’t know how far you would go like
you’re in portland I’m of Seattle’s too
far you know what makes sense for you
but local local business coaches local
website SEO people local Chamber of
Commerce many local business groups
maybe local business improvement
associations any of those people even
even potential you know lawyers or
accountants base anybody has a business
owner or marketer as a client you could
go in and help them so if you put on a
free workshop to help them with a
certain problem that could be value add
to their clients as well and it doesn’t
have to be a sales pitch it doesn’t have
to be like here’s why you need to hire
me uh it’ll deal just it’ll just happen
like people will see your expertise and
then I’ll run some of them will just try
to do themselves and others were just
like you’ve had that experience that you
know what uh how much would it cost for
you to do it right just like
that I mean I was just expecting to have
helped regular herself and yeah I think
you’re right if I go and that’s a great
idea to talk to I’m like for example web
developers is a great suggestion because
I’ve had a couple copy means with with
those people because they you know they
they get frustrating because they’re
waiting on their clients to give them
copy if they’re doing any website for
them and and then their project gets too
late if that person has a written copy
and so then sometimes they write copy
for them which isn’t really their
expertise they don’t like it they don’t
like doing that but they’ll do it just
with the project along um and so they
often will work with copywriters but
like the idea of going and talking to
their clients that’s an awesome idea
yeah we’re or having them do a workshop
like yeah let’s put on a workshop for
your clients I’m going to come in and
talk about how to write a great about
page and hopefully this leads some more
work for you because they’re gonna need
someone to design the about page for
them and you just gives value and I’m
just trying to get my name out there and
I want to I want to form an alliance
with you and I want to give before I
take anything right if they can do a
workshop and they bring ten of their
clients out and
you know you’re gonna have a pretty good
hit rate these are people have already
paid money to hire professional website
designer so they understand the value of
bringing people on board their team is
it’s not like some brand new startup who
doesn’t have any budget for anything but
loves all your ideas um yeah and then
repeat like why wouldn’t a lawyer want
the same thing you know like a lawyer to
be able to give back to their business
owner audience and you could write about
how to you know how to impact somebody
with the next flyer that you put out or
copy that needs to be on your LinkedIn
bio or you know how to write a homepage
that is really appealing to people um
you know that’s value add to the lawyer
to introduce to his audience our
audience um and helps put you in front
of people who have budget to afford a
lawyer so they great that’s afford a
copy right here yeah that’s a great idea
um and then the third thing that came
from that is you got some results by
meeting people in person and walking
them through how to do this about page
and then then realizing how much work it
is so they don’t want to do it
themselves and they want you to do it
right now I’m wondering how can you
replicate that and now thinking about
your social channels so that it doesn’t
always have to be you in person doing
that or why can’t I watch your youtube
video and get that same feeling okay
right like do I why can’t I watch your
YouTube like give the same amount of
value away in a YouTube video where I’m
learning a lot and realized wow jen has
an insane amount of value to add and a
lot of people just take that and run
with it and try to do it themselves and
that’s cool like those people would
never buy from you anyway right right
but others who are maybe further along
and have some budget would realize you
know what I don’t like I value my time
more than I value the money so I’m gonna
hire somebody to do it and Who am I
gonna hire gonna hire the person who’s
video i’m watching and maybe feel that
way
right so you’re already like you already
have the skills you’re already doing it
when you’re meeting with them
face-to-face or via blab but it’s still
like you connecting one on one it’s how
can you translate that same feeling to
your YouTube videos so that when i watch
that I’m still getting that same kind of
connection and message when I like
people after they meet with you may feel
overwhelmed like this is just an insane
amount of value and work and I don’t
want to put in that work I’d rather have
you do it right how do you get that same
feeling of overwhelm and value at the
end of watch one of your YouTube videos
that I’m like you know what I don’t want
to do this this more work than I thought
i get the value I don’t want to do this
I just want to hire Jen right and so
then you end up getting leads via the
web instead of having to do all the
local events and partnerships yeah no I
love that idea because I mean a lot of
my you know perfect customer just don’t
look right here in Portland so it’d be
great to be able to work with people
across the country yeah it’s funny
because I think you actually are
highlighting something I’ve sort of been
debating because I i did a video a
couple weeks ago about how to edit your
copy and you know it was really valuable
video and I kept thinking to myself
maybe it’s too long because ended being
like 10 minutes but I couldn’t figure
out how to make it shorter I mean I
really I kind of was I moved along
quickly and I gave some really good tips
I couldn’t figure how to do it other
than breaking up into chunks now I was
like you know what I’m going to go ahead
and put all together as one video and
just see how it does um and it’s been ok
it hasn’t done quite as well as the
about page video but um but that’s
actually a really great concept because
if I make the videos longer um like I
just did another one actually just
posted this morning on how to name
something and I I feel like it is if it
is a really long video that might just
feel like okay I get it this is a
process I’m gonna hire John rather than
make it like my about page video was
super short like I made it really sharp
of my idea was that I was going to kind
of tease them into downloading the
freebie from me and then you know
hopefully you know you know hiring for
me from the tease but me
wasn’t enough maybe I should have done a
longer about page video I don’t know
what’s your thoughts on that I know you
know the length of the video is kind of
controversial for me it’s it’s really
about the value and and I eat it the
most popular video on my channel is
still a 40 minute long video yeah almost
2 million views maybe it’s over 2
million views now I don’t know 40
minutes long you know and I look at some
of the other channels that are in my
space and they’re going shorter and
shorter and I was talking to other
people there the Gaia if we if we posted
videos more than 45 seconds long we lose
all their attentions like that’s nuts
like you know some videos can be 45
seconds long but if video should be as
long as it needs to be right as long as
you’re not repeating yourself and saying
the same thing over and over and over
again you know uh you go to a Tony
Robbins event and and his stuff is like
weekends long right all day long yeah I
Mountain telling him listen Tony you got
to crunch that down into half an hour or
10 minutes or five minutes you know so
sometimes it’s not possible i think the
challenge though with with the long
videos as people most people can’t
provide consistent value for an hour or
half an hour or 20 minutes or whoever
long it is you end up repeating yourself
and it’s not good quality stuff we’re
really what you said in 30 minutes could
have been said in seven so say it in
seven like just like coffee long copy
for the sake of length is not great but
if every word is meaningful and
impactful and fantasy and makes people
feel something then the copies as long
as a copy needs to be so i think i think
for that the topic doesn’t sound is
interesting for me if i’m comparing
those two like you had how did how to
make a great about page versus how to
how to edit your copy yeah as a business
owner i get to how to make a great about
page right edit my papi is probably a
big problem but i don’t see it as a
problem
yeah well I’m Nancy right I was thinking
I would sort of the baton to myself how
do I make this more sound more
interesting but I didn’t know how to
because I mean really when you edit your
copy it’s like that’s kinda like the
difference between like it you know like
a first draft obviously in the finished
traffic all these like elegant touches
and make it much more interesting to
read and I mean there were some useful
stuff in there like um so I know what
you mean though the title sounds boring
um so unless your rider you might not
get it right as a busy entrepreneur you
know I’d obviously know you but
otherwise if I wouldn’t watch the video
game yes I don’t feel like it’s a
pressing need we’re fine they’re sitting
like on my I have a conference coming up
everybody’s gonna hit my about page I
hate how it looks I don’t know what to
write for my bio like that’s more of a
pressing need um yeah I think if you
changed it around you get better results
yeah I think that’s a more search term
friendly like somebody’s typing in like
how do i fix my belt page right probably
not searching for how do i edit my copy
better yeah unless you’re talking to
editors right like that’s something that
they care about but maybe that’s not the
audience that you want to reach not
really yeah you’re right I think and I
could have still kept the same content
and just maybe had a different better
title like you know how to put the
finishing touches on your website pages
to make them really awesome or whatever
like you know um that’s a really good
point and actually someone else was
telling me that you know I could go back
and read rename a lot of my youtube
videos to make it more interesting
because a lot of I titles are at the
heart the bass aren’t the most
searchable um where is the how to write
an about page probably is right and
thinking about that video you did
recently of where were you in whole
foods yeah and walking around like
showcasing the product names and
descriptions that you really liked yeah
especially for you as a copywriter you
need your names to be noteworthy right
talk about worthy so that if somebody
was landing on on your page like if I’m
looking at hey I want to hire somebody
to help me with my LinkedIn bio I’m
gonna look at your LinkedIn bio
right I’m gonna look at your about page
I can look at your YouTube video titles
on right like that’s just by the nature
of the industry that you’re in that’s
what I’m gonna look at yeah right if
there’s somebody talking with ya right
the somebody’s talking about how to be a
great youtuber and they don’t have a
popular YouTube channel well what I’m
gonna you know I don’t want to somebody
else so just like you went into whole
foods and talked about you know this how
many thousands of products and whole
foods and you picked out three or four
that really resonated with you but how
they described what was in their product
you want people to do the same thing
where when they land and hit your about
page it’s something that they like man
that’s that’s a cool about page it’s
different how how she wrote about
herself I want something like that for
me right okay cool I love it really good
points great we got some questions
coming in roshan is asking uh what’s the
best and worst moment of being an
entrepreneur oh wow um certain deep
their ocean i know i should take light
topic for this morning i haven’t had
enough coffee today um i mean i would
say probably the worst moment is like
that feeling that you like are going and
deeper and deeper and you can’t get
yourself out and like I know for me like
when I wasn’t noticing all like I wasn’t
getting in clients I wasn’t like I
thought goes doing all the right things
but late wasn’t paying off yet and it
just you know you just have to have
faith and without being able see as I
put it the other side of the forest like
you have to just embrace the forest and
keep going and you know enjoy the time
there and know that it’s gonna know that
it’s gonna pay off i think that was
probably the toughest thing for me
because i felt like you know i felt like
i had to give up i felt like i was gonna
you know go into further debt and i was
never to make money and maybe I me this
huge mistake and um and you know then
things started turning around and I
think the best part for me was when I
realized when I started celebrating I
you know said that at the four million
times but it just made me more aware of
all the things that I was doing so what
I started doing was things like you know
at the end of the day writing down
everything I got done in that day so you
know maybe I didn’t give a new client
you know but I got like ten things done
that I you know never want to be able to
do when I was working full-time
and so um starting all the things I was
doing right and not what is wrong is
what really helped me and made me feel
excited on my business again cool for me
the the worst part was just feeling uh
like I was valueless like I was putting
in all this work and I wasn’t getting
results and wanting to quit yeah
everything before that like if I put in
my time and effort i knew that i would
get meaningful results and here i was
like working hard and not getting
results and so that that sucks like if
you’re not working hard then whatever
you don’t you don’t deserve it too
you’re not really putting the effort in
but we needa put in the effort and
you’re acting anything coming back man
that sucks it makes you feel like just
completely worthless yeah and then the
best part I guess for me like I’m
motivated by impact so just seeing the
comment and you guys saying how you know
you’ve got an idea or your moved by to
you’re motivated now you’re gonna go do
something realize it at the time that
I’m spending is having an impact on
people that that’s that’s the best part
then I get that daily which is awesome
but you need to you know for those
watching need to understand the impact
that you’re having and that’s like
that’s that’s fuel for you to want to
keep going exactly I love it Ravi is
asking how to know between two things is
equally excited about two things how
does he know which one to go for Ravi oh
wow that’s a hard one you know what this
is a really um this comes back to a book
that I read recently that talked about
before I think Perry Marshall wrote this
book called 8020 rule and it’s basically
takes that 8020 roll into further
account and he compares it’s like
everything in your life which is it’s
kind of amazing when you think about it
like you know eighty percent of people
travel in twenty percent of the roads
it’s like this this rule like applies
throughout life but one of the things
that he talks about that I think it’s
just like it’s one of those pieces of
advice that I really stuck with me and
that’s if you are making a decision
about something and you’re not like at
least eight close to eighty percent sure
it’s gonna work out and of course you
don’t know for sure you never know for
sure but you know if your confidence
isn’t like
% you shouldn’t do it because it’s
probably not gonna work out and so I
don’t know if it’s like exactly equal
but if either one of them are eighty
percent like I don’t do it and I think
back on the things in my life when I’ve
sort of been a little unsure and like I
think to myself all i’m seventy-five
percent sure so that’s it’s pretty
likely but that’s not it’s not enough it
has to be closer to eighty percent
because otherwise it probably won’t work
out and that’s totally how it’s been for
me if I’ve been like a little less than
eighty percent sure hasn’t worked out
it’s cuz part of it too i think is your
own confidence in your own excitement
level contributes to that eighty percent
and um I don’t know that’s I thought I
was really a piece of advice for me I
would look at it two ways one I would I
would look first if I’m equally excited
about them can i combine them into one
yeah embrace the end instead of seeing
them as or yeah you like if you love
website development and you love you
know hockey those may seem as two
different things but you can combine
them be the website developer for the
hockey industry and you’ll be the best
yeah you’ll be the best at that like and
if you just try to be a website
developer or you just try to do
something in hockey you’ll always feel
into something missing where if you can
combine those two things nobody can
touch you and so it allows you to be
unique so that helps you stand out in
the customers eyes but it also brings
you more joy so you don’t feel like
there’s something that’s a part of you
that’s that’s missing you have to go
somewhere else to be able to do it I’m a
big believer in combining your passions
to build the ultimate business that
nobody can replicate yeah I love that so
much the other recently I’m stars and so
you talked about that recently within
your video with Ryan Holliday too right
he talked about like pursuing multiple
things and that really helps you get
stay motivated and stay busy I love that
and just like what you said like you can
use your passions and you know in
multiple ways yeah so then the other
part of that I would say is I if I had
to configure out between to look at what
am I most excited finally are you
actually excited by these things that
actually motivate you are you doing it
just because you think it’s an
opportunity I do you enjoy the work like
do you enjoy the process you know like
Jen might be great at
18 and that can yield a great result for
her clients and they get new business or
they get whatever results are on but if
she didn’t enjoy writing mm-hmm it’s not
gonna last like she’s got to be doing
riding on her own she likes to enjoy the
process that doesn’t mean you enjoy
every day is gonna be terrible days yeah
but but often the way to get through a
terrible days to bury yourself back in
the work like the work brings you joy
and too many people are focus just on
the outcome they’re just focusing on the
opportunity they read like entrepreneur
magazine top hundred businesses the star
like oh yeah I go through that one
because it’s hot right it doesn’t that
get it because you don’t like the work
like a nut shouldn’t be work the work
should be fun the work should save you
the work gets you through it so I’d be
looking at those opportunities that you
have in front of you Ravi and see like
do you actually enjoy the work and if
you do then bring both those together to
form the ultimate business I love that
it reminds me two of your that reminds a
little bit of your failure video because
I think about that too like if you’re
willing to fail at something like if you
love it so much that you’re gonna fail
at it and you know you’re gonna feel at
it you’re still gonna want to keep doing
it then you definitely pursue it because
I think because the bottom line is
you’re gonna fail at something it
whatever you pursue somehow some way
you’re gonna fail at it before you get
really good at it and so you have to you
know go into it knowing you might suck
at up for a little bit and as long as
you’re willing to accept that and then
you probably have a passion for it I
love it well we’re already a time it’s
crazy how quickly it goes people who
want to learn about you where they going
uh they can go to you so much calm or on
my youtube channel it’s add video so
much is my channel awesome appreciate
the time again thank you guys for
watching to continue to believe i will
see you see things that it yes
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