hello everyone marco montemagno here the
tech alchemist and today with me i would
say really a great person before than a
great entrepreneur rand fishkin
how are you rent doing great thank you
for having me Marco so right I was
thinking about how can I really
introduce Rand in a way that I can
really transfer to the readers and the
tech alchemist community how I
appreciate your job in a way that I give
a clear picture of you okay so I would
thinking about few things that I would
like to say before to begin our chat
okay if I say stupid things or wrong
things you just say no this is not okay
the third thing if I think about Rand
Fishkin okay
founder of SEO modes a successful
company I would say is the the facto
standard for SEO rate related things got
funded also recently we’ve been talking
here with Fred belt and I don’t remember
the amount of funding collected until
this moment 18 million dollars alright
and well Seattle based in Seattle I
think all right so this is the first was
the easiest thing okay the second thing
that I was thinking is I really loved
the way that you talked about
I wouldn’t say SEO the way that you talk
and evangelize how to create a an online
identity in a good way in a positive way
in a way that it works about
professionally and personal so with your
blog with your video your Friday videos
where you explain stuff so this is I
think is a really cool and unique way
that you’re doing for a long time
because I mean I remember the first
videos several years ago probably so
yeah
so this I would say is the second part
of your character and then I go rent in
to little bit unknown things about your
character but I think that they are cool
the first one is that you for me you’re
an amazing speaker and people maybe
don’t focus on it because maybe they
read your content and these kind of
things but guys if you have you know 10
minutes 20 minutes go to have a look at
a trend talk and I think this is really
a cool important thing because you can
educate people about a difficult subject
so this is something I really appreciate
and then the fourth and then I finish I
stop here and I start with the tough
questions red eye I’ve been organizing
an event several times every years ago I
think couple of years ago and I was
inviting red okay and when when you were
coming there you were very professional
very serious so I thought okay guys good
probably he will be a boring speaker
that I never told you this but I was
thinking you don’t beginning and then
you started to speak and and you were
amazing so I thought gosh this guy
really he knows how to you know catch
attention of people even if he’s talking
about a difficult topic and then it was
a party of the event and I thought oh
you know America very professional I
don’t know if it’s the right person for
the party but when you went on the stage
and you were dancing you were great so
the fourth thing right dancer you know
so yeah that was that was a good night
you are the king of the dancing so I
really you know I I fell in love with
your professional approach and your life
approach really work hard play hard and
from that moment on I always thought
rent really now go out for me and yeah
that’s it so do I think is the right
picture or not I think I think you’ve
got it down cold so I have a question
for you then when do I get to come back
and dance in Italy
absolutely we need to do a comeback for
you all I say you probably you coming in
Europe or in London yeah I’m gonna be in
London I think two weeks from now for a
search love distilled search love I was
I was going to be in Helsinki as well
speaking at events in Finland but
unfortunately I had to cancel due to
some stuff here so wait yeah I’m looking
forward to coming I am gonna be in Italy
next next June I think late May early
too so you have anything going yeah
we’ll meet again definitely so rain I
want to go straight to the point and
tell you the pain that we feel you know
all the business people feel in this
moment that is you know so many things
are changing every two milliseconds and
if I start from Google for instance
every company’s every business try to
figure out how they can be visible how
they can be on the top of Google without
getting mad you know because penguin
panda and changing the algorithm every
two seconds so the first thing that I I
would like you to to help us to
understand is what’s happening I mean is
Google going crazy
the older changing that they are doing
are for the good for the bad what a
business you do to survive in this
situation from a general point of view
yeah so Google is making pretty active
changes but they’ve been making active
changes all along I think the difference
between a lot of the changes that
they’ve made in the last 12 18 months
versus what you saw for the last three
or four years before that is that
recently they’ve been focusing on I
would say eliminating a lot of
manipulative tactics that happened in
the SEO world and so for a long time you
know from two thousand six or seven I’d
say until about 2011 really Google was
taking not very much action against a
lot of forms of what many people thought
were web spam you know buying links
manipulating
the link crap putting low-quality thin
content on your site you know having a
keyword variation on every page on all
these different kinds of things you
don’t even know the specifics just that
the broad picture is Google wasn’t
really taking action against these folks
and then the last 18 months we’ve seen
them take a lot of action and because of
that the problem is that what the SEO
world started to believe over those four
years is that hey these practices are ok
I can give it away with them and when
you can get away with them they start to
become almost like a not a best practice
but but an industry standard and so now
in Google’s hitting people hard with
things like Panda and Penguin updates
like their exact match domain
penalisation that they did recently
those kinds of things teak people who
thought they were good at SEO and keep
them you know 100 spots back in the
results and so they start to you know
really panic that’s where you get that
that sense of panic in those blog posts
with a hundred comments on them people
angry at Google but do you think is a is
a good move from Google so it will clean
a little bit the space it’s it’s a good
move it just came so late that they had
already created a bad expectation so
it’s the right thing to do it’s just the
right thing to do for years ago alright
ai-ai-ai-aight stay on um on a vision
level I just just to begin to understand
better what’s happening
we still Facebook just got 1 billion
users almost so and I I heard Mark
Zuckerberg at the last TechCrunch
Disrupt
only talking about mobile and yeah
search will come with search and so on
so obviously if they start to really
enable search among all their their
billion users they will have they will
give big competition to Google so what
what’s the situation now I mean if you
should recommend to two companies how to
balance their own online presence they
have only to focus on Google to be on
top of Google they have to think about
face would they have to think about
Google+ they wear
would you focus if you if you would
recommend so this is just like
advertising in the real world you know
when you know you go to a gelato shop in
Seattle and you say well we’re gonna
advertise we’re gonna say well I’m gonna
advertise in communities that are close
to my restaurant and advertising places
where people are likely to see the ad
and the people who will see the ad would
be likely to come to my gelateria right
so maybe I’ll buy some stuff on the side
of a bus maybe I’ll buy some outdoor
advertising kind of park bench maybe
I’ll buy a billboard maybe I’ll buy some
advertising a local newspaper but I
wouldn’t buy it in a national newspaper
I wouldn’t let him buy a TV ad because
of a reach to too broad an audience who
won’t target the people who are just in
this neighborhood people aren’t going to
travel from miles away to apply that to
the online world where are your
customers who are your customers and and
how should you best reach them what are
the affordable channels for you to reach
them and what are you good at that
that’s really what it comes down to so a
lot of people’s customers are on
Facebook if you’re in the consumer world
but if you’re in the b2b world people
don’t share b2b content on Facebook
that’s not what people click like on
people go oh wow a you know corrugated
aluminum producer like no it never
happens yeah right but they might indeed
tweet something that shares some stats
about roofing it might indeed you know
go and find you through a Google search
and so you really want to be doing SEO
and probably paid search as well they
might find you they might reach your
website through some other moves through
an email link through a link from
another website through attack and trade
journals through conferences and events
and so you want to be at all of those
places this is this is the classic
marketing problem of placing yourself
where your customers are what do you
think render you you recently wrote
about content marketing and
inbound marketing you know some content marketing is sort of one one of the
marketing is sort of one one of the channels of inbound marketing all
channels of inbound marketing all inbound marketing means inbound just
inbound marketing means inbound just means channels you don’t pay for you
means channels you don’t pay for you earn versus buy right so paid search is
earn versus buy right so paid search is by it retargeting is by it display ads
by it retargeting is by it display ads or by it park benches are buying right
or by it park benches are buying right and then blogging is earn it that’s
and then blogging is earn it that’s that’s a form of content marketing that
that’s a form of content marketing that email marketing that’s earn it
email marketing that’s earn it SEO is earn it social media that’s earn
SEO is earn it social media that’s earn it so it’s just a way to describe those
it so it’s just a way to describe those it’s correct if I say that there is a
it’s correct if I say that there is a shift from the classic SEO strategy of
shift from the classic SEO strategy of getting links don’ts of links from
getting links don’ts of links from everywhere to a more you know strategic
everywhere to a more you know strategic approach also online and and try to
approach also online and and try to build your identity I would say also in
build your identity I would say also in a more ethic way you know in a way that
a more ethic way you know in a way that yeah so I agree with you right so Google
yeah so I agree with you right so Google has essentially taken a lot of action
has essentially taken a lot of action against manipulative links penguin is
against manipulative links penguin is the most robust example but there are
the most robust example but there are plenty of others and they sort of said
plenty of others and they sort of said don’t build a website we Google are not
don’t build a website we Google are not interested in ranking your website but
interested in ranking your website but if you build a brand on the Internet we
if you build a brand on the Internet we would like to rank your brand right so
would like to rank your brand right so what we don’t want to see is oh well I
what we don’t want to see is oh well I really want to rank or discount online
really want to rank or discount online shoes so I’m going to build discount –
shoes so I’m going to build discount – online – shoes dot info like that’s not
online – shoes dot info like that’s not a brand this is not a brand Google
a brand this is not a brand Google doesn’t want to rank that and just
doesn’t want to rank that and just because you went and you found a bunch
because you went and you found a bunch of directories and social media sites
of directories and social media sites and profiles and you you know you’ve
and profiles and you you know you’ve bought a bunch of student webpages and
bought a bunch of student webpages and put links to discount online shoes net
put links to discount online shoes net doesn’t mean that you are a brand who
doesn’t mean that you are a brand who deserves to be ranked and that was
deserves to be ranked and that was classic SEO that’s what a ton of SEO
classic SEO that’s what a ton of SEO people did for a very long time and what
people did for a very long time and what Google’s saying is you know we like
Google’s saying is you know we like brands like Zappos and endless and
you know DSW calm and all these types of folks those are brands if you build a
folks those are brands if you build a brand and it is well recognized and
brand and it is well recognized and people are talking about you and there’s
people are talking about you and there’s social signals and user and usage data
social signals and user and usage data signals that they get from you know
signals that they get from you know google chrome google analytics your your
google chrome google analytics your your android phone right all that kind of
android phone right all that kind of stuff then yes we were ranked and so
stuff then yes we were ranked and so it’s it’s becoming much less of a here’s
it’s it’s becoming much less of a here’s all the ranking factors and signals and
all the ranking factors and signals and let’s try to manipulate those and much
let’s try to manipulate those and much more of a I better build something
more of a I better build something amazing that people really enjoy it like
amazing that people really enjoy it like and then do a good job of making it
and then do a good job of making it accessible to Google right I love the
accessible to Google right I love the idea that you have to build a brand and
idea that you have to build a brand and you don’t have to build a website or a
you don’t have to build a website or a mobile app because it’s the problem that
mobile app because it’s the problem that I mean that I see every day is that
I mean that I see every day is that Indiana companies say okay but to build
Indiana companies say okay but to build a brand maybe have to I don’t know
a brand maybe have to I don’t know create videos facebook funpage I have so
create videos facebook funpage I have so many things to do that for a small
many things to do that for a small company maybe you don’t have people that
company maybe you don’t have people that they are able to to create all the that
they are able to to create all the that kind of stuff how do you solve this
kind of stuff how do you solve this problem because I I think if you buy
problem because I I think if you buy your own Google Adwords or Facebook
your own Google Adwords or Facebook advertising you just push a bottle you
advertising you just push a bottle you put some money in push a button and then
put some money in push a button and then it goes by yourself to build a brand it
it goes by yourself to build a brand it is a big effort I think I agree it is a
is a big effort I think I agree it is a big effort but I would I would place
big effort but I would I would place this next to anything else that happens
this next to anything else that happens in life in human existence right they do
in life in human existence right they do that when you put a lot of effort in
that when you put a lot of effort in concerted effort and you bother to to
concerted effort and you bother to to learn the ropes and you go through the
learn the ropes and you go through the pain of the learning process and you
pain of the learning process and you learn from your mistakes and you
learn from your mistakes and you continue investing you get better at any
continue investing you get better at any sports that you’ve ever played right you
sports that you’ve ever played right you play football if you play tennis if you
play football if you play tennis if you play a musical instrument you know if
play a musical instrument you know if you’re learning to play the guitar you
you’re learning to play the guitar you know that you have to learn the ins and
know that you have to learn the ins and outs learning the chord changes learn
outs learning the chord changes learn how to how to get that memory that
how to how to get that memory that physical muscle memory and your fingers
physical muscle memory and your fingers to make that those chords sound right to
to make that those chords sound right to make the transition son right the online
make the transition son right the online world is no different
world is no different so you need to go spend some time on
so you need to go spend some time on Facebook see what Facebook pages in your
Facebook see what Facebook pages in your niche in your world in your industry are
niche in your world in your industry are doing well what kind of content are they
doing well what kind of content are they posting I’m gonna spend a few hours to
posting I’m gonna spend a few hours to give them then I’m gonna experiment I’m
give them then I’m gonna experiment I’m gonna try putting some of that kind of
gonna try putting some of that kind of stuff on my Facebook page I’m gonna
stuff on my Facebook page I’m gonna learn from Facebook insight maybe I’m
learn from Facebook insight maybe I’m gonna buy a little bit of advertising
gonna buy a little bit of advertising maybe I won’t even maybe I’ll just start
maybe I won’t even maybe I’ll just start organically and see what happens over
organically and see what happens over time I’ll do the same thing with Twitter
time I’ll do the same thing with Twitter you’re gonna do the same thing with SEO
you’re gonna do the same thing with SEO there are one-person companies that have
there are one-person companies that have built incredible brands on the Internet
built incredible brands on the Internet incredible bricks I mean the you know
incredible bricks I mean the you know one of the biggest online dating sites
one of the biggest online dating sites which is by the way one of the most
which is by the way one of the most competitive fields on the web
competitive fields on the web plenty of fish is built by Markus and
plenty of fish is built by Markus and he’s one guy in Vancouver right he says
he’s one guy in Vancouver right he says he doesn’t even work that much and he
he doesn’t even work that much and he sold the also he’s dating problem you
sold the also he’s dating problem you think about the people who built amazing
think about the people who built amazing brands it does not take a huge team it
brands it does not take a huge team it doesn’t take some magical formula that
doesn’t take some magical formula that nobody knows except for a few gurus oh
nobody knows except for a few gurus oh it just it’s like anything else it takes
it just it’s like anything else it takes time it takes effort but there are so
time it takes effort but there are so many wonderful resources now on the left
many wonderful resources now on the left learn these things if you’re willing to
learn these things if you’re willing to expend the energy you can become great
expend the energy you can become great at I have a couple of question Ren about
at I have a couple of question Ren about your experience with two platforms where
your experience with two platforms where I think you really are becoming a master
I think you really are becoming a master of those two platforms one is a
of those two platforms one is a SlideShare for you guys I just go on
SlideShare for you guys I just go on SlideShare and check rent presentations
SlideShare and check rent presentations well I think they’re really good they
well I think they’re really good they are very well done both technically and
are very well done both technically and also both from a presentation point of
also both from a presentation point of view what’s your what’s your experience
view what’s your what’s your experience with that I mean a SlideShare a channel
with that I mean a SlideShare a channel that you try to to explore and you would
that you try to to explore and you would recommend to use it and how so
recommend to use it and how so SlideShare is one it’s like those
SlideShare is one it’s like those channels I was talking about where you
channels I was talking about where you find where your users are and I haven’t
find where your users are and I haven’t you know I know for a fact lots of
you know I know for a fact lots of marketers which are the people that I’m
marketers which are the people that I’m trying to reach right I want to reach
trying to reach right I want to reach professional marketers and say hey if
professional marketers and say hey if you guys do SEO and social media
you guys do SEO and social media marketing and content marketing all the
marketing and content marketing all the inbound channels and SEO software is for
inbound channels and SEO software is for you
you and so I know that marketers are on
and so I know that marketers are on SlideShare if your audience is also on
SlideShare if your audience is also on SlideShare so a lot of professionals in
SlideShare so a lot of professionals in the creative field advertising digital
the creative field advertising digital obviously marketing design those types
obviously marketing design those types of folks are on SlideShare and yes
of folks are on SlideShare and yes certainly
certainly it pays and any time you’re giving a
it pays and any time you’re giving a presentation a talk at a conference or
presentation a talk at a conference or an event or whatever you’re doing
an event or whatever you’re doing whatever kind of business you are if
whatever kind of business you are if you’re speaking and you make a slide
you’re speaking and you make a slide presentation and it’s of high quality
presentation and it’s of high quality you should put it on SlideShare before
you should put it on SlideShare before you give the talk and then when you get
you give the talk and then when you get on stage you tell people you can
on stage you tell people you can download my slides on SlideShare at this
download my slides on SlideShare at this URL and I usually make a custom Finley
URL and I usually make a custom Finley URL so I’ll have like a bitly slash
URL so I’ll have like a bitly slash future of SEO I don’t know people type
future of SEO I don’t know people type in a slash future investing you know and
in a slash future investing you know and they go to the SlideShare page and then
they go to the SlideShare page and then they start tweeting it and sharing it
they start tweeting it and sharing it and all those shares make it good at the
and all those shares make it good at the front page of SlideShare if it gets
front page of SlideShare if it gets enough views fast enough and then lots
enough views fast enough and then lots more people see it on the front page of
more people see it on the front page of SlideShare and it gets featured it’s
SlideShare and it gets featured it’s like a pushing a boulder up a hill and
like a pushing a boulder up a hill and then when I get on stage you push it
then when I get on stage you push it over the edge and that SlideShare goes
over the edge and that SlideShare goes popular another channel that you you’re
popular another channel that you you’re using in a great way my opinion is how
using in a great way my opinion is how you create videos and this Friday
you create videos and this Friday whiteboards where you explain with this
whiteboards where you explain with this whiteboard very well color now it is a
whiteboard very well color now it is a great way to engage users what are your
great way to engage users what are your tips about it also because I saw that I
tips about it also because I saw that I think I see almost you’ve been using
think I see almost you’ve been using Wistia probably to upload videos which
Wistia probably to upload videos which is a for you guys is a platform where
is a for you guys is a platform where you can upload videos like be blur and
you can upload videos like be blur and you can get a lot of metrics about where
you can get a lot of metrics about where people start stop to watch your videos
people start stop to watch your videos on so what what’s your experience with
on so what what’s your experience with the video which is I think is much more
the video which is I think is much more complex to be produced it’s not like you
complex to be produced it’s not like you know that you write post and it’s done
know that you write post and it’s done yeah so video I think when you want to
yeah so video I think when you want to do video you need to do it right so that
do video you need to do it right so that in the early days of the internet 2000
in the early days of the internet 2000 to 2001 video
to 2001 video people’s video expectations for video is
people’s video expectations for video is pretty low and even in the early days of
pretty low and even in the early days of YouTube you know 2003 for which is we
YouTube you know 2003 for which is we started doing whiteboard Friday in 2005
started doing whiteboard Friday in 2005 people’s expectations for the quality of
people’s expectations for the quality of what a small business could produce was
what a small business could produce was pretty low today you know great cameras
pretty low today you know great cameras are relatively inexpensive there’s a lot
are relatively inexpensive there’s a lot more people with video expertise video
more people with video expertise video production and editing expertise and so
production and editing expertise and so users have a much higher expectation for
users have a much higher expectation for what’s going to be in the video and you
what’s going to be in the video and you can see why per Friday today is much
can see why per Friday today is much more professional than it was you know
more professional than it was you know three four years ago when I’d say about
three four years ago when I’d say about video we do two things so we have a
video we do two things so we have a YouTube channel where we put videos
YouTube channel where we put videos including the new whiteboard Fridays
including the new whiteboard Fridays online we also put some other kinds of
online we also put some other kinds of video on there so oftentimes if I give a
video on there so oftentimes if I give a presentation I’ll sort of do a faux
presentation I’ll sort of do a faux presentation in front of the whiteboard
presentation in front of the whiteboard and I’ll project the presentation onto
and I’ll project the presentation onto the whiteboard that kind of thing that
the whiteboard that kind of thing that works pretty well we put those on
works pretty well we put those on YouTube and that’s that’s the build of a
YouTube and that’s that’s the build of a channel YouTube itself is actually the
channel YouTube itself is actually the second most popular search engine in the
second most popular search engine in the world behind Google it gets more
world behind Google it gets more searches than than Microsoft or Bing or
searches than than Microsoft or Bing or Yahoo or any of those so so YouTube is a
Yahoo or any of those so so YouTube is a very very powerful platform if you can
very very powerful platform if you can put the right kind of material in there
put the right kind of material in there and the right kind of Tyrael on YouTube
and the right kind of Tyrael on YouTube how to works extremely well funny stuff
how to works extremely well funny stuff works really well
works really well informative stuff works really well and
informative stuff works really well and we use Wistia actually for something
we use Wistia actually for something else so we use Wistia to put this
else so we use Wistia to put this content on our own site because it
content on our own site because it enables
self-controlled embedding so for example when you embed a YouTube video on
when you embed a YouTube video on somebody else’s site it points back to
somebody else’s site it points back to YouTube but if you embed a Wistia video
YouTube but if you embed a Wistia video that we’ve created onto your website
that we’ve created onto your website it’ll actually point back to where we
it’ll actually point back to where we tell it to point back to which is our
tell it to point back to which is our website so we get the traffic we get to
website so we get the traffic we get to control the experience which is great
control the experience which is great and we also get as you mentioned a lot
and we also get as you mentioned a lot more fancy metrics we get to use it
more fancy metrics we get to use it automatically sends XML video sitemaps
automatically sends XML video sitemaps to Google so you get the little video
to Google so you get the little video box and the results next to your listing
box and the results next to your listing so does lots of lots of cool
so does lots of lots of cool you upload the same video both on Wistia
you upload the same video both on Wistia and on YouTube alright blogging
and on YouTube alright blogging I mean SEO most blog is amazing I think
I mean SEO most blog is amazing I think really so many posts from both SEO mods
really so many posts from both SEO mods team and guest post by the users by the
team and guest post by the users by the community so many interesting stuff lot
community so many interesting stuff lot of comments a lot of people really going
of comments a lot of people really going deep and how to be visible online how do
deep and how to be visible online how do you consider blogging I mean comparing
you consider blogging I mean comparing it five years ago it’s blogging dead as
it five years ago it’s blogging dead as a lot of people say is still great and
a lot of people say is still great and good and alive and kicking what’s your
good and alive and kicking what’s your opinion but so what’s interesting is
opinion but so what’s interesting is that there are fewer active blogs today
that there are fewer active blogs today than there were say about four years ago
than there were say about four years ago not many fewer but a little bit fewer so
not many fewer but a little bit fewer so you sort of seen a a peak of number of
you sort of seen a a peak of number of active blocks but blog readership has
active blocks but blog readership has grown about 2x in the last four years so
grown about 2x in the last four years so this means more people reading fewer
this means more people reading fewer blogs says to me big opportunity for
blogs says to me big opportunity for bloggers big big opportunity for
bloggers big big opportunity for bloggers it’s just a wonderful thing I
bloggers it’s just a wonderful thing I mean for us our traffic on the blog is
mean for us our traffic on the blog is just you know it’s grown every year
just you know it’s grown every year tremendously I think right now we get
tremendously I think right now we get you get about two million visits the
you get about two million visits the site at sixty seventy percent of that is
site at sixty seventy percent of that is to the blog it’s really really
to the blog it’s really really remarkable we have a hundred and twenty
remarkable we have a hundred and twenty thousand subscribers to that you know to
thousand subscribers to that you know to the blog every day it’s it really is a
the blog every day it’s it really is a great way to reach people to influence
great way to reach people to influence to have thought leadership and to do
to have thought leadership and to do good things like SEO as well right tools
good things like SEO as well right tools if you have to recommend three tools
if you have to recommend three tools that every company in the world should
that every company in the world should use to be visible online to be on top of
use to be visible online to be on top of their obviously their target I know that
their obviously their target I know that is a silly question because it depends
is a silly question because it depends by the platform and it depends by so
by the platform and it depends by so many variables but in your opinion
many variables but in your opinion something that you you should say a you
something that you you should say a you absolutely have to use
absolutely have to use these three tools for your activity for
these three tools for your activity for your online eye positioning what would
your online eye positioning what would you recommend let’s see my number one is
you recommend let’s see my number one is going to be Google Analytics because you
going to be Google Analytics because you can’t improve what you can’t measure and
can’t improve what you can’t measure and you have to be measuring up to be
you have to be measuring up to be measuring which sources are sending
measuring which sources are sending traffic and how valuable that traffic is
traffic and how valuable that traffic is what it’s doing when your website which
what it’s doing when your website which pages are failing and which ones are
pages are failing and which ones are working the other one I’m probably gonna
working the other one I’m probably gonna say is well it’s a it’s kind of a choice
say is well it’s a it’s kind of a choice so if you’re looking for a free tool I
so if you’re looking for a free tool I would use Google Webmaster Tools which
would use Google Webmaster Tools which does a good job of sort of showing you
does a good job of sort of showing you errors and problems on your website it
errors and problems on your website it is free it’s just at google.com slash
is free it’s just at google.com slash webmasters and it will give you some
webmasters and it will give you some some pretty good information in there
some pretty good information in there the the paid version of that would be
the the paid version of that would be SEO us you know so I say Oh miles lets
SEO us you know so I say Oh miles lets you kind of track your rankings it shows
you kind of track your rankings it shows you a lot more detail around what it’s
you a lot more detail around what it’s crawling and the errors it’ll message to
crawling and the errors it’ll message to you it’ll help you optimize pages that
you it’ll help you optimize pages that good little the nostrils provides like
good little the nostrils provides like almost a little bit of that but not you
almost a little bit of that but not you know SEO Moz is sort of what we wish
know SEO Moz is sort of what we wish Google gave us and then the third one
Google gave us and then the third one I’m gonna say is if you are doing if you
I’m gonna say is if you are doing if you are thinking about building a a content
are thinking about building a a content site particularly a blog or an article
site particularly a blog or an article or news or anything like that I probably
or news or anything like that I probably recommend that you use WordPress it does
recommend that you use WordPress it does such WordPress just does such a great
such WordPress just does such a great job as a content management system and
job as a content management system and there’s so many plugins that let you do
there’s so many plugins that let you do you know all the all the detailed level
you know all the all the detailed level stuff you can plug in Google Analytics
stuff you can plug in Google Analytics you can plug in discuss which is a great
you can plug in discuss which is a great commenting system you could plug in
commenting system you could plug in semantics a great comment content
semantics a great comment content recommendation system you know there’s a
recommendation system you know there’s a there’s a huge library of things you can
there’s a huge library of things you can do and WordPress is is fast its SEO
do and WordPress is is fast its SEO friendly there’s lots of good advice out
friendly there’s lots of good advice out there for WordPress bloggers great
there for WordPress bloggers great themes tons of developers so those would
themes tons of developers so those would be my my top three I can give you 20
be my my top three I can give you 20 them a couple of things more than I like
them a couple of things more than I like to going on user you super busy mobile
to going on user you super busy mobile everyone talk about mobile and I mean in
everyone talk about mobile and I mean in Italy we bad but with mobile we have
Italy we bad but with mobile we have three mobile each so
three mobile each so is an exploding market obviously and one
is an exploding market obviously and one big question is okay if I have a mobile
big question is okay if I have a mobile app and I think about the SEO so how can
app and I think about the SEO so how can I have my mobile app more visible on top
I have my mobile app more visible on top of App Store or Google Play
of App Store or Google Play is there any specific tip that you can
is there any specific tip that you can give that you can provide for people who
give that you can provide for people who may be or company who maybe they have a
may be or company who maybe they have a mobile app but they don’t know how to
mobile app but they don’t know how to scale the ranking yeah okay so the
scale the ranking yeah okay so the mobile world the mobile app world is
mobile world the mobile app world is very very different from the web world
very very different from the web world most of the apps that get downloaded
most of the apps that get downloaded don’t get downloaded through search but
don’t get downloaded through search but if they do get downloaded through search
if they do get downloaded through search it’s not a search for anything generic
it’s not a search for anything generic right so people don’t search for you
right so people don’t search for you know app that lets me check in that
know app that lets me check in that local businesses they search for
local businesses they search for Foursquare right they don’t search for
Foursquare right they don’t search for app that lets me send 140 character
app that lets me send 140 character messages to my friend they search for
messages to my friend they search for Twitter
Twitter so really the search is not unbranded
so really the search is not unbranded like it is on the web right on the web
like it is on the web right on the web people do perform those kinds of
people do perform those kinds of searches though they’ll say like oh I’m
searches though they’ll say like oh I’m looking for local restaurants in Seattle
looking for local restaurants in Seattle and those types of searches happen a lot
and those types of searches happen a lot on mobile devices but they happen on the
on mobile devices but they happen on the web not in the App Store
web not in the App Store so ranking in the App Store is doesn’t
so ranking in the App Store is doesn’t mean the same thing as ranking in web
mean the same thing as ranking in web search I’d be very careful about
search I’d be very careful about thinking like oh I don’t rank very well
thinking like oh I don’t rank very well for the keyword that I thought I was
for the keyword that I thought I was supposed to target don’t worry about
supposed to target don’t worry about keywords in the App Store but you are
keywords in the App Store but you are worried about these downloads and you’re
worried about these downloads and you’re worried about ratings right you want to
worried about ratings right you want to get lots of good ratings from people and
get lots of good ratings from people and that means building a very very slick
that means building a very very slick app and building usually it means
app and building usually it means building a marketing platform or
building a marketing platform or marketing channels not in the App Store
marketing channels not in the App Store themselves meaning on the web so that
themselves meaning on the web so that means you want to get a you know a
means you want to get a you know a powerful Twitter account and lots of
powerful Twitter account and lots of people liking your page on Facebook and
people liking your page on Facebook and lots of people maybe posting your image
lots of people maybe posting your image of images of things in your app to
of images of things in your app to Pinterest and you know
Pinterest and you know be making the home page of Reddit gaming
be making the home page of Reddit gaming if you have a game app those kinds of
if you have a game app those kinds of things that drive classic demand and
things that drive classic demand and branding on the web that’s really what
branding on the web that’s really what you’re what you’re looking for
you’re what you’re looking for all right that’s very interesting
all right that’s very interesting because I actually I think most of the
because I actually I think most of the businesses they think the same way where
businesses they think the same way where they’re mobile so that they use the same
they’re mobile so that they use the same approach what do you think will happen
approach what do you think will happen in in two years time I mean in in this
in in two years time I mean in in this word Google will be the most dominant
word Google will be the most dominant player Facebook will become the most
player Facebook will become the most dominant player do you have if you can
dominant player do you have if you can open your magic your magic sphere you
open your magic your magic sphere you know what we happen I mean where would
know what we happen I mean where would you suggest do you best or be on the
you suggest do you best or be on the right train there on the right direction
right train there on the right direction again I mean I’d go back to saying that
again I mean I’d go back to saying that some channels are gonna be right for
some channels are gonna be right for some businesses sometimes Google is all
some businesses sometimes Google is all wrong for a business I’ve worked with
wrong for a business I’ve worked with lots of lots of startups that make a
lots of lots of startups that make a software product and I say well is
software product and I say well is anyone searching for this it may say no
anyone searching for this it may say no it doesn’t exist yet okay well then
it doesn’t exist yet okay well then don’t do SEO you can rank or you know
don’t do SEO you can rank or you know newfangled thingamajig all you want but
newfangled thingamajig all you want but nobody’s searching for it yet so I would
nobody’s searching for it yet so I would say go to the channels where it makes
say go to the channels where it makes sense in terms of who’s gonna be
sense in terms of who’s gonna be dominant place I think Facebook and
dominant place I think Facebook and Twitter and a few of these other ones I
Twitter and a few of these other ones I mean I don’t see tumblr going anywhere
mean I don’t see tumblr going anywhere but up I think Pinterest is gonna
but up I think Pinterest is gonna continue to grow
continue to grow it’ll be a niche social network but
it’ll be a niche social network but it’ll continue to grow or square is
it’ll continue to grow or square is going to continue to be big they they
going to continue to be big they they add users all the time they’re growing
add users all the time they’re growing engagement all the time or local it’s
engagement all the time or local it’s very big Yelp is a huge network that’s
very big Yelp is a huge network that’s continuing to grow internationally for
continuing to grow internationally for local business particularly for finding
local business particularly for finding local business but tons of people who
local business but tons of people who don’t even go to Google anymore they
don’t even go to Google anymore they just pop up and Yelp on their you know
just pop up and Yelp on their you know on their mobile device so you need to be
on their mobile device so you need to be on the on the right platform I don’t see
on the on the right platform I don’t see one of these companies dominating all
one of these companies dominating all the others what I see is a very diverse
the others what I see is a very diverse world on the web and in the mobile
world on the web and in the mobile is there some new startup that you would
is there some new startup that you would say hey let’s keep an eye sore on those
say hey let’s keep an eye sore on those guys because they good I don’t know path
guys because they good I don’t know path or I don’t know is there any platform
or I don’t know is there any platform that you would say this is good one
that you would say this is good one I think path is an interesting one but I
I think path is an interesting one but I haven’t seen them quite break into the
haven’t seen them quite break into the mainstream yet but they they could be
mainstream yet but they they could be four squares a little like that they’re
four squares a little like that they’re kind of trailing but they could get
kind of trailing but they could get somewhere it wouldn’t surprise me if we
somewhere it wouldn’t surprise me if we have something something new in the well
have something something new in the well I know they’re technically they’re big
I know they’re technically they’re big but I think Google+ is actually going to
but I think Google+ is actually going to be a very very big and interesting
be a very very big and interesting social network on the scale of a
social network on the scale of a LinkedIn or a Twitter maybe not a
LinkedIn or a Twitter maybe not a Facebook but in that you know a couple
Facebook but in that you know a couple hundred million active users and very
hundred million active users and very very powerful for influencing SEO so you
very powerful for influencing SEO so you know if you’re not on Google+ today and
know if you’re not on Google+ today and you want to rank well in Google
you want to rank well in Google get on there even if none of your
get on there even if none of your friends on there even if you feel like
friends on there even if you feel like it’s a ghost town and oh there’s nobody
it’s a ghost town and oh there’s nobody that get there early don’t you don’t
that get there early don’t you don’t want to be late to the game on a
want to be late to the game on a platform that could change your business
platform that could change your business that’s injury I think a lot of companies
that’s injury I think a lot of companies they are totally under estimating now
they are totally under estimating now Google+ oh I think in Europe I don’t
Google+ oh I think in Europe I don’t know the numbers but I don’t think they
know the numbers but I don’t think they the big numbers in many countries at the
the big numbers in many countries at the moment at least which is which is why
moment at least which is which is why it’s a great time to adopt early yes a
it’s a great time to adopt early yes a rental last question I was curious you
rental last question I was curious you recently wrote about in Italian I would
recently wrote about in Italian I would say with my horrible English accent I
say with my horrible English accent I would call it CRO C are all about
would call it CRO C are all about conversion how do you say crossroad
conversion how do you say crossroad oh it’s just like SEO it’s CRO rate
oh it’s just like SEO it’s CRO rate optimisation and I was really interested
optimisation and I was really interested in it I just you know in 30 seconds but
in it I just you know in 30 seconds but if you have tips for four
if you have tips for four for companies willing to improve their
for companies willing to improve their conversion conversion and then obviously
conversion conversion and then obviously my suggest is good to check your
my suggest is good to check your presentation about CRO because it’s very
presentation about CRO because it’s very very interesting how you you’ve been
very interesting how you you’ve been using it on SEOmoz so very interesting
using it on SEOmoz so very interesting but what would you recommend about
but what would you recommend about improving conversion on a landing page
improving conversion on a landing page typically your website so my biggest tip
typically your website so my biggest tip for conversion is imagine that you’ve
for conversion is imagine that you’ve got two circles right so one circle one
got two circles right so one circle one over here is what the user is looking
over here is what the user is looking for and circle and this this circle over
for and circle and this this circle over here is what the web page provides you
here is what the web page provides you want the overlap to be perfect you want
want the overlap to be perfect you want the web page to provide exactly what the
the web page to provide exactly what the user is looking for that’s actually very
user is looking for that’s actually very rare visit a lot of web pages where you
rare visit a lot of web pages where you think I think what they’re trying to do
think I think what they’re trying to do is very different from what I want to do
is very different from what I want to do if you align those two things that’s
if you align those two things that’s when you get great conversion activity
when you get great conversion activity and that means looking at the keywords
and that means looking at the keywords that are sending traffic it means asking
that are sending traffic it means asking smart questions people who are visiting
smart questions people who are visiting your website the best thing that you can
your website the best thing that you can do for conversion rate optimisation in
do for conversion rate optimisation in terms of figuring out how to align those
terms of figuring out how to align those things is to talk to your users ask them
things is to talk to your users ask them smart questions why did you come to the
smart questions why did you come to the website what were you hoping to find ask
website what were you hoping to find ask the people who bought why did you buy
the people who bought why did you buy what why do you keep buying for me ask
what why do you keep buying for me ask the people who didn’t buy what meet you
the people who didn’t buy what meet you come in the first place and why didn’t
come in the first place and why didn’t you buy figure out what those objections
you buy figure out what those objections are and then start to address those it
are and then start to address those it it’s very simple and yet so many people
it’s very simple and yet so many people don’t take advantage of it and that
don’t take advantage of it and that presentation by the way that you’re
presentation by the way that you’re talking about it set bitly slash
talking about it set bitly slash big-picture CRM yes I’m actually a huge
big-picture CRM yes I’m actually a huge fan of a tool called Unbounce it allows
fan of a tool called Unbounce it allows you to create web pages and landing
you to create web pages and landing pages and make changes to them without
pages and make changes to them without being a market without being a web
being a market without being a web developer or a software engineer and
developer or a software engineer and that’s really really handy for a lot of
that’s really really handy for a lot of marketers with write HTML code and try
marketers with write HTML code and try to figure out the CSS layout you can
to figure out the CSS layout you can make a lot of changes let’s start
make a lot of changes let’s start testing right away but you will the
testing right away but you will the problem is you won’t know what to test
problem is you won’t know what to test or how to test until you talk to your
or how to test until you talk to your users all right rent I
users all right rent I really really went long but I want to
really really went long but I want to thank you so much for being here today
thank you so much for being here today I’m good luck for everything I waiting
I’m good luck for everything I waiting for you when you coming in Europe
for you when you coming in Europe awesome reporter right
awesome reporter right thank you so much bye right
tech alchemist and today with me i would
say really a great person before than a
great entrepreneur rand fishkin
how are you rent doing great thank you
for having me Marco so right I was
thinking about how can I really
introduce Rand in a way that I can
really transfer to the readers and the
tech alchemist community how I
appreciate your job in a way that I give
a clear picture of you okay so I would
thinking about few things that I would
like to say before to begin our chat
okay if I say stupid things or wrong
things you just say no this is not okay
the third thing if I think about Rand
Fishkin okay
founder of SEO modes a successful
company I would say is the the facto
standard for SEO rate related things got
funded also recently we’ve been talking
here with Fred belt and I don’t remember
the amount of funding collected until
this moment 18 million dollars alright
and well Seattle based in Seattle I
think all right so this is the first was
the easiest thing okay the second thing
that I was thinking is I really loved
the way that you talked about
I wouldn’t say SEO the way that you talk
and evangelize how to create a an online
identity in a good way in a positive way
in a way that it works about
professionally and personal so with your
blog with your video your Friday videos
where you explain stuff so this is I
think is a really cool and unique way
that you’re doing for a long time
because I mean I remember the first
videos several years ago probably so
yeah
so this I would say is the second part
of your character and then I go rent in
to little bit unknown things about your
character but I think that they are cool
the first one is that you for me you’re
an amazing speaker and people maybe
don’t focus on it because maybe they
read your content and these kind of
things but guys if you have you know 10
minutes 20 minutes go to have a look at
a trend talk and I think this is really
a cool important thing because you can
educate people about a difficult subject
so this is something I really appreciate
and then the fourth and then I finish I
stop here and I start with the tough
questions red eye I’ve been organizing
an event several times every years ago I
think couple of years ago and I was
inviting red okay and when when you were
coming there you were very professional
very serious so I thought okay guys good
probably he will be a boring speaker
that I never told you this but I was
thinking you don’t beginning and then
you started to speak and and you were
amazing so I thought gosh this guy
really he knows how to you know catch
attention of people even if he’s talking
about a difficult topic and then it was
a party of the event and I thought oh
you know America very professional I
don’t know if it’s the right person for
the party but when you went on the stage
and you were dancing you were great so
the fourth thing right dancer you know
so yeah that was that was a good night
you are the king of the dancing so I
really you know I I fell in love with
your professional approach and your life
approach really work hard play hard and
from that moment on I always thought
rent really now go out for me and yeah
that’s it so do I think is the right
picture or not I think I think you’ve
got it down cold so I have a question
for you then when do I get to come back
and dance in Italy
absolutely we need to do a comeback for
you all I say you probably you coming in
Europe or in London yeah I’m gonna be in
London I think two weeks from now for a
search love distilled search love I was
I was going to be in Helsinki as well
speaking at events in Finland but
unfortunately I had to cancel due to
some stuff here so wait yeah I’m looking
forward to coming I am gonna be in Italy
next next June I think late May early
too so you have anything going yeah
we’ll meet again definitely so rain I
want to go straight to the point and
tell you the pain that we feel you know
all the business people feel in this
moment that is you know so many things
are changing every two milliseconds and
if I start from Google for instance
every company’s every business try to
figure out how they can be visible how
they can be on the top of Google without
getting mad you know because penguin
panda and changing the algorithm every
two seconds so the first thing that I I
would like you to to help us to
understand is what’s happening I mean is
Google going crazy
the older changing that they are doing
are for the good for the bad what a
business you do to survive in this
situation from a general point of view
yeah so Google is making pretty active
changes but they’ve been making active
changes all along I think the difference
between a lot of the changes that
they’ve made in the last 12 18 months
versus what you saw for the last three
or four years before that is that
recently they’ve been focusing on I
would say eliminating a lot of
manipulative tactics that happened in
the SEO world and so for a long time you
know from two thousand six or seven I’d
say until about 2011 really Google was
taking not very much action against a
lot of forms of what many people thought
were web spam you know buying links
manipulating
the link crap putting low-quality thin
content on your site you know having a
keyword variation on every page on all
these different kinds of things you
don’t even know the specifics just that
the broad picture is Google wasn’t
really taking action against these folks
and then the last 18 months we’ve seen
them take a lot of action and because of
that the problem is that what the SEO
world started to believe over those four
years is that hey these practices are ok
I can give it away with them and when
you can get away with them they start to
become almost like a not a best practice
but but an industry standard and so now
in Google’s hitting people hard with
things like Panda and Penguin updates
like their exact match domain
penalisation that they did recently
those kinds of things teak people who
thought they were good at SEO and keep
them you know 100 spots back in the
results and so they start to you know
really panic that’s where you get that
that sense of panic in those blog posts
with a hundred comments on them people
angry at Google but do you think is a is
a good move from Google so it will clean
a little bit the space it’s it’s a good
move it just came so late that they had
already created a bad expectation so
it’s the right thing to do it’s just the
right thing to do for years ago alright
ai-ai-ai-aight stay on um on a vision
level I just just to begin to understand
better what’s happening
we still Facebook just got 1 billion
users almost so and I I heard Mark
Zuckerberg at the last TechCrunch
Disrupt
only talking about mobile and yeah
search will come with search and so on
so obviously if they start to really
enable search among all their their
billion users they will have they will
give big competition to Google so what
what’s the situation now I mean if you
should recommend to two companies how to
balance their own online presence they
have only to focus on Google to be on
top of Google they have to think about
face would they have to think about
Google+ they wear
would you focus if you if you would
recommend so this is just like
advertising in the real world you know
when you know you go to a gelato shop in
Seattle and you say well we’re gonna
advertise we’re gonna say well I’m gonna
advertise in communities that are close
to my restaurant and advertising places
where people are likely to see the ad
and the people who will see the ad would
be likely to come to my gelateria right
so maybe I’ll buy some stuff on the side
of a bus maybe I’ll buy some outdoor
advertising kind of park bench maybe
I’ll buy a billboard maybe I’ll buy some
advertising a local newspaper but I
wouldn’t buy it in a national newspaper
I wouldn’t let him buy a TV ad because
of a reach to too broad an audience who
won’t target the people who are just in
this neighborhood people aren’t going to
travel from miles away to apply that to
the online world where are your
customers who are your customers and and
how should you best reach them what are
the affordable channels for you to reach
them and what are you good at that
that’s really what it comes down to so a
lot of people’s customers are on
Facebook if you’re in the consumer world
but if you’re in the b2b world people
don’t share b2b content on Facebook
that’s not what people click like on
people go oh wow a you know corrugated
aluminum producer like no it never
happens yeah right but they might indeed
tweet something that shares some stats
about roofing it might indeed you know
go and find you through a Google search
and so you really want to be doing SEO
and probably paid search as well they
might find you they might reach your
website through some other moves through
an email link through a link from
another website through attack and trade
journals through conferences and events
and so you want to be at all of those
places this is this is the classic
marketing problem of placing yourself
where your customers are what do you
think render you you recently wrote
about content marketing and
inbound marketing you know some content marketing is sort of one one of the
marketing is sort of one one of the channels of inbound marketing all
channels of inbound marketing all inbound marketing means inbound just
inbound marketing means inbound just means channels you don’t pay for you
means channels you don’t pay for you earn versus buy right so paid search is
earn versus buy right so paid search is by it retargeting is by it display ads
by it retargeting is by it display ads or by it park benches are buying right
or by it park benches are buying right and then blogging is earn it that’s
and then blogging is earn it that’s that’s a form of content marketing that
that’s a form of content marketing that email marketing that’s earn it
email marketing that’s earn it SEO is earn it social media that’s earn
SEO is earn it social media that’s earn it so it’s just a way to describe those
it so it’s just a way to describe those it’s correct if I say that there is a
it’s correct if I say that there is a shift from the classic SEO strategy of
shift from the classic SEO strategy of getting links don’ts of links from
getting links don’ts of links from everywhere to a more you know strategic
everywhere to a more you know strategic approach also online and and try to
approach also online and and try to build your identity I would say also in
build your identity I would say also in a more ethic way you know in a way that
a more ethic way you know in a way that yeah so I agree with you right so Google
yeah so I agree with you right so Google has essentially taken a lot of action
has essentially taken a lot of action against manipulative links penguin is
against manipulative links penguin is the most robust example but there are
the most robust example but there are plenty of others and they sort of said
plenty of others and they sort of said don’t build a website we Google are not
don’t build a website we Google are not interested in ranking your website but
interested in ranking your website but if you build a brand on the Internet we
if you build a brand on the Internet we would like to rank your brand right so
would like to rank your brand right so what we don’t want to see is oh well I
what we don’t want to see is oh well I really want to rank or discount online
really want to rank or discount online shoes so I’m going to build discount –
shoes so I’m going to build discount – online – shoes dot info like that’s not
online – shoes dot info like that’s not a brand this is not a brand Google
a brand this is not a brand Google doesn’t want to rank that and just
doesn’t want to rank that and just because you went and you found a bunch
because you went and you found a bunch of directories and social media sites
of directories and social media sites and profiles and you you know you’ve
and profiles and you you know you’ve bought a bunch of student webpages and
bought a bunch of student webpages and put links to discount online shoes net
put links to discount online shoes net doesn’t mean that you are a brand who
doesn’t mean that you are a brand who deserves to be ranked and that was
deserves to be ranked and that was classic SEO that’s what a ton of SEO
classic SEO that’s what a ton of SEO people did for a very long time and what
people did for a very long time and what Google’s saying is you know we like
Google’s saying is you know we like brands like Zappos and endless and
you know DSW calm and all these types of folks those are brands if you build a
folks those are brands if you build a brand and it is well recognized and
brand and it is well recognized and people are talking about you and there’s
people are talking about you and there’s social signals and user and usage data
social signals and user and usage data signals that they get from you know
signals that they get from you know google chrome google analytics your your
google chrome google analytics your your android phone right all that kind of
android phone right all that kind of stuff then yes we were ranked and so
stuff then yes we were ranked and so it’s it’s becoming much less of a here’s
it’s it’s becoming much less of a here’s all the ranking factors and signals and
all the ranking factors and signals and let’s try to manipulate those and much
let’s try to manipulate those and much more of a I better build something
more of a I better build something amazing that people really enjoy it like
amazing that people really enjoy it like and then do a good job of making it
and then do a good job of making it accessible to Google right I love the
accessible to Google right I love the idea that you have to build a brand and
idea that you have to build a brand and you don’t have to build a website or a
you don’t have to build a website or a mobile app because it’s the problem that
mobile app because it’s the problem that I mean that I see every day is that
I mean that I see every day is that Indiana companies say okay but to build
Indiana companies say okay but to build a brand maybe have to I don’t know
a brand maybe have to I don’t know create videos facebook funpage I have so
create videos facebook funpage I have so many things to do that for a small
many things to do that for a small company maybe you don’t have people that
company maybe you don’t have people that they are able to to create all the that
they are able to to create all the that kind of stuff how do you solve this
kind of stuff how do you solve this problem because I I think if you buy
problem because I I think if you buy your own Google Adwords or Facebook
your own Google Adwords or Facebook advertising you just push a bottle you
advertising you just push a bottle you put some money in push a button and then
put some money in push a button and then it goes by yourself to build a brand it
it goes by yourself to build a brand it is a big effort I think I agree it is a
is a big effort I think I agree it is a big effort but I would I would place
big effort but I would I would place this next to anything else that happens
this next to anything else that happens in life in human existence right they do
in life in human existence right they do that when you put a lot of effort in
that when you put a lot of effort in concerted effort and you bother to to
concerted effort and you bother to to learn the ropes and you go through the
learn the ropes and you go through the pain of the learning process and you
pain of the learning process and you learn from your mistakes and you
learn from your mistakes and you continue investing you get better at any
continue investing you get better at any sports that you’ve ever played right you
sports that you’ve ever played right you play football if you play tennis if you
play football if you play tennis if you play a musical instrument you know if
play a musical instrument you know if you’re learning to play the guitar you
you’re learning to play the guitar you know that you have to learn the ins and
know that you have to learn the ins and outs learning the chord changes learn
outs learning the chord changes learn how to how to get that memory that
how to how to get that memory that physical muscle memory and your fingers
physical muscle memory and your fingers to make that those chords sound right to
to make that those chords sound right to make the transition son right the online
make the transition son right the online world is no different
world is no different so you need to go spend some time on
so you need to go spend some time on Facebook see what Facebook pages in your
Facebook see what Facebook pages in your niche in your world in your industry are
niche in your world in your industry are doing well what kind of content are they
doing well what kind of content are they posting I’m gonna spend a few hours to
posting I’m gonna spend a few hours to give them then I’m gonna experiment I’m
give them then I’m gonna experiment I’m gonna try putting some of that kind of
gonna try putting some of that kind of stuff on my Facebook page I’m gonna
stuff on my Facebook page I’m gonna learn from Facebook insight maybe I’m
learn from Facebook insight maybe I’m gonna buy a little bit of advertising
gonna buy a little bit of advertising maybe I won’t even maybe I’ll just start
maybe I won’t even maybe I’ll just start organically and see what happens over
organically and see what happens over time I’ll do the same thing with Twitter
time I’ll do the same thing with Twitter you’re gonna do the same thing with SEO
you’re gonna do the same thing with SEO there are one-person companies that have
there are one-person companies that have built incredible brands on the Internet
built incredible brands on the Internet incredible bricks I mean the you know
incredible bricks I mean the you know one of the biggest online dating sites
one of the biggest online dating sites which is by the way one of the most
which is by the way one of the most competitive fields on the web
competitive fields on the web plenty of fish is built by Markus and
plenty of fish is built by Markus and he’s one guy in Vancouver right he says
he’s one guy in Vancouver right he says he doesn’t even work that much and he
he doesn’t even work that much and he sold the also he’s dating problem you
sold the also he’s dating problem you think about the people who built amazing
think about the people who built amazing brands it does not take a huge team it
brands it does not take a huge team it doesn’t take some magical formula that
doesn’t take some magical formula that nobody knows except for a few gurus oh
nobody knows except for a few gurus oh it just it’s like anything else it takes
it just it’s like anything else it takes time it takes effort but there are so
time it takes effort but there are so many wonderful resources now on the left
many wonderful resources now on the left learn these things if you’re willing to
learn these things if you’re willing to expend the energy you can become great
expend the energy you can become great at I have a couple of question Ren about
at I have a couple of question Ren about your experience with two platforms where
your experience with two platforms where I think you really are becoming a master
I think you really are becoming a master of those two platforms one is a
of those two platforms one is a SlideShare for you guys I just go on
SlideShare for you guys I just go on SlideShare and check rent presentations
SlideShare and check rent presentations well I think they’re really good they
well I think they’re really good they are very well done both technically and
are very well done both technically and also both from a presentation point of
also both from a presentation point of view what’s your what’s your experience
view what’s your what’s your experience with that I mean a SlideShare a channel
with that I mean a SlideShare a channel that you try to to explore and you would
that you try to to explore and you would recommend to use it and how so
recommend to use it and how so SlideShare is one it’s like those
SlideShare is one it’s like those channels I was talking about where you
channels I was talking about where you find where your users are and I haven’t
find where your users are and I haven’t you know I know for a fact lots of
you know I know for a fact lots of marketers which are the people that I’m
marketers which are the people that I’m trying to reach right I want to reach
trying to reach right I want to reach professional marketers and say hey if
professional marketers and say hey if you guys do SEO and social media
you guys do SEO and social media marketing and content marketing all the
marketing and content marketing all the inbound channels and SEO software is for
inbound channels and SEO software is for you
you and so I know that marketers are on
and so I know that marketers are on SlideShare if your audience is also on
SlideShare if your audience is also on SlideShare so a lot of professionals in
SlideShare so a lot of professionals in the creative field advertising digital
the creative field advertising digital obviously marketing design those types
obviously marketing design those types of folks are on SlideShare and yes
of folks are on SlideShare and yes certainly
certainly it pays and any time you’re giving a
it pays and any time you’re giving a presentation a talk at a conference or
presentation a talk at a conference or an event or whatever you’re doing
an event or whatever you’re doing whatever kind of business you are if
whatever kind of business you are if you’re speaking and you make a slide
you’re speaking and you make a slide presentation and it’s of high quality
presentation and it’s of high quality you should put it on SlideShare before
you should put it on SlideShare before you give the talk and then when you get
you give the talk and then when you get on stage you tell people you can
on stage you tell people you can download my slides on SlideShare at this
download my slides on SlideShare at this URL and I usually make a custom Finley
URL and I usually make a custom Finley URL so I’ll have like a bitly slash
URL so I’ll have like a bitly slash future of SEO I don’t know people type
future of SEO I don’t know people type in a slash future investing you know and
in a slash future investing you know and they go to the SlideShare page and then
they go to the SlideShare page and then they start tweeting it and sharing it
they start tweeting it and sharing it and all those shares make it good at the
and all those shares make it good at the front page of SlideShare if it gets
front page of SlideShare if it gets enough views fast enough and then lots
enough views fast enough and then lots more people see it on the front page of
more people see it on the front page of SlideShare and it gets featured it’s
SlideShare and it gets featured it’s like a pushing a boulder up a hill and
like a pushing a boulder up a hill and then when I get on stage you push it
then when I get on stage you push it over the edge and that SlideShare goes
over the edge and that SlideShare goes popular another channel that you you’re
popular another channel that you you’re using in a great way my opinion is how
using in a great way my opinion is how you create videos and this Friday
you create videos and this Friday whiteboards where you explain with this
whiteboards where you explain with this whiteboard very well color now it is a
whiteboard very well color now it is a great way to engage users what are your
great way to engage users what are your tips about it also because I saw that I
tips about it also because I saw that I think I see almost you’ve been using
think I see almost you’ve been using Wistia probably to upload videos which
Wistia probably to upload videos which is a for you guys is a platform where
is a for you guys is a platform where you can upload videos like be blur and
you can upload videos like be blur and you can get a lot of metrics about where
you can get a lot of metrics about where people start stop to watch your videos
people start stop to watch your videos on so what what’s your experience with
on so what what’s your experience with the video which is I think is much more
the video which is I think is much more complex to be produced it’s not like you
complex to be produced it’s not like you know that you write post and it’s done
know that you write post and it’s done yeah so video I think when you want to
yeah so video I think when you want to do video you need to do it right so that
do video you need to do it right so that in the early days of the internet 2000
in the early days of the internet 2000 to 2001 video
to 2001 video people’s video expectations for video is
people’s video expectations for video is pretty low and even in the early days of
pretty low and even in the early days of YouTube you know 2003 for which is we
YouTube you know 2003 for which is we started doing whiteboard Friday in 2005
started doing whiteboard Friday in 2005 people’s expectations for the quality of
people’s expectations for the quality of what a small business could produce was
what a small business could produce was pretty low today you know great cameras
pretty low today you know great cameras are relatively inexpensive there’s a lot
are relatively inexpensive there’s a lot more people with video expertise video
more people with video expertise video production and editing expertise and so
production and editing expertise and so users have a much higher expectation for
users have a much higher expectation for what’s going to be in the video and you
what’s going to be in the video and you can see why per Friday today is much
can see why per Friday today is much more professional than it was you know
more professional than it was you know three four years ago when I’d say about
three four years ago when I’d say about video we do two things so we have a
video we do two things so we have a YouTube channel where we put videos
YouTube channel where we put videos including the new whiteboard Fridays
including the new whiteboard Fridays online we also put some other kinds of
online we also put some other kinds of video on there so oftentimes if I give a
video on there so oftentimes if I give a presentation I’ll sort of do a faux
presentation I’ll sort of do a faux presentation in front of the whiteboard
presentation in front of the whiteboard and I’ll project the presentation onto
and I’ll project the presentation onto the whiteboard that kind of thing that
the whiteboard that kind of thing that works pretty well we put those on
works pretty well we put those on YouTube and that’s that’s the build of a
YouTube and that’s that’s the build of a channel YouTube itself is actually the
channel YouTube itself is actually the second most popular search engine in the
second most popular search engine in the world behind Google it gets more
world behind Google it gets more searches than than Microsoft or Bing or
searches than than Microsoft or Bing or Yahoo or any of those so so YouTube is a
Yahoo or any of those so so YouTube is a very very powerful platform if you can
very very powerful platform if you can put the right kind of material in there
put the right kind of material in there and the right kind of Tyrael on YouTube
and the right kind of Tyrael on YouTube how to works extremely well funny stuff
how to works extremely well funny stuff works really well
works really well informative stuff works really well and
informative stuff works really well and we use Wistia actually for something
we use Wistia actually for something else so we use Wistia to put this
else so we use Wistia to put this content on our own site because it
content on our own site because it enables
self-controlled embedding so for example when you embed a YouTube video on
when you embed a YouTube video on somebody else’s site it points back to
somebody else’s site it points back to YouTube but if you embed a Wistia video
YouTube but if you embed a Wistia video that we’ve created onto your website
that we’ve created onto your website it’ll actually point back to where we
it’ll actually point back to where we tell it to point back to which is our
tell it to point back to which is our website so we get the traffic we get to
website so we get the traffic we get to control the experience which is great
control the experience which is great and we also get as you mentioned a lot
and we also get as you mentioned a lot more fancy metrics we get to use it
more fancy metrics we get to use it automatically sends XML video sitemaps
automatically sends XML video sitemaps to Google so you get the little video
to Google so you get the little video box and the results next to your listing
box and the results next to your listing so does lots of lots of cool
so does lots of lots of cool you upload the same video both on Wistia
you upload the same video both on Wistia and on YouTube alright blogging
and on YouTube alright blogging I mean SEO most blog is amazing I think
I mean SEO most blog is amazing I think really so many posts from both SEO mods
really so many posts from both SEO mods team and guest post by the users by the
team and guest post by the users by the community so many interesting stuff lot
community so many interesting stuff lot of comments a lot of people really going
of comments a lot of people really going deep and how to be visible online how do
deep and how to be visible online how do you consider blogging I mean comparing
you consider blogging I mean comparing it five years ago it’s blogging dead as
it five years ago it’s blogging dead as a lot of people say is still great and
a lot of people say is still great and good and alive and kicking what’s your
good and alive and kicking what’s your opinion but so what’s interesting is
opinion but so what’s interesting is that there are fewer active blogs today
that there are fewer active blogs today than there were say about four years ago
than there were say about four years ago not many fewer but a little bit fewer so
not many fewer but a little bit fewer so you sort of seen a a peak of number of
you sort of seen a a peak of number of active blocks but blog readership has
active blocks but blog readership has grown about 2x in the last four years so
grown about 2x in the last four years so this means more people reading fewer
this means more people reading fewer blogs says to me big opportunity for
blogs says to me big opportunity for bloggers big big opportunity for
bloggers big big opportunity for bloggers it’s just a wonderful thing I
bloggers it’s just a wonderful thing I mean for us our traffic on the blog is
mean for us our traffic on the blog is just you know it’s grown every year
just you know it’s grown every year tremendously I think right now we get
tremendously I think right now we get you get about two million visits the
you get about two million visits the site at sixty seventy percent of that is
site at sixty seventy percent of that is to the blog it’s really really
to the blog it’s really really remarkable we have a hundred and twenty
remarkable we have a hundred and twenty thousand subscribers to that you know to
thousand subscribers to that you know to the blog every day it’s it really is a
the blog every day it’s it really is a great way to reach people to influence
great way to reach people to influence to have thought leadership and to do
to have thought leadership and to do good things like SEO as well right tools
good things like SEO as well right tools if you have to recommend three tools
if you have to recommend three tools that every company in the world should
that every company in the world should use to be visible online to be on top of
use to be visible online to be on top of their obviously their target I know that
their obviously their target I know that is a silly question because it depends
is a silly question because it depends by the platform and it depends by so
by the platform and it depends by so many variables but in your opinion
many variables but in your opinion something that you you should say a you
something that you you should say a you absolutely have to use
absolutely have to use these three tools for your activity for
these three tools for your activity for your online eye positioning what would
your online eye positioning what would you recommend let’s see my number one is
you recommend let’s see my number one is going to be Google Analytics because you
going to be Google Analytics because you can’t improve what you can’t measure and
can’t improve what you can’t measure and you have to be measuring up to be
you have to be measuring up to be measuring which sources are sending
measuring which sources are sending traffic and how valuable that traffic is
traffic and how valuable that traffic is what it’s doing when your website which
what it’s doing when your website which pages are failing and which ones are
pages are failing and which ones are working the other one I’m probably gonna
working the other one I’m probably gonna say is well it’s a it’s kind of a choice
say is well it’s a it’s kind of a choice so if you’re looking for a free tool I
so if you’re looking for a free tool I would use Google Webmaster Tools which
would use Google Webmaster Tools which does a good job of sort of showing you
does a good job of sort of showing you errors and problems on your website it
errors and problems on your website it is free it’s just at google.com slash
is free it’s just at google.com slash webmasters and it will give you some
webmasters and it will give you some some pretty good information in there
some pretty good information in there the the paid version of that would be
the the paid version of that would be SEO us you know so I say Oh miles lets
SEO us you know so I say Oh miles lets you kind of track your rankings it shows
you kind of track your rankings it shows you a lot more detail around what it’s
you a lot more detail around what it’s crawling and the errors it’ll message to
crawling and the errors it’ll message to you it’ll help you optimize pages that
you it’ll help you optimize pages that good little the nostrils provides like
good little the nostrils provides like almost a little bit of that but not you
almost a little bit of that but not you know SEO Moz is sort of what we wish
know SEO Moz is sort of what we wish Google gave us and then the third one
Google gave us and then the third one I’m gonna say is if you are doing if you
I’m gonna say is if you are doing if you are thinking about building a a content
are thinking about building a a content site particularly a blog or an article
site particularly a blog or an article or news or anything like that I probably
or news or anything like that I probably recommend that you use WordPress it does
recommend that you use WordPress it does such WordPress just does such a great
such WordPress just does such a great job as a content management system and
job as a content management system and there’s so many plugins that let you do
there’s so many plugins that let you do you know all the all the detailed level
you know all the all the detailed level stuff you can plug in Google Analytics
stuff you can plug in Google Analytics you can plug in discuss which is a great
you can plug in discuss which is a great commenting system you could plug in
commenting system you could plug in semantics a great comment content
semantics a great comment content recommendation system you know there’s a
recommendation system you know there’s a there’s a huge library of things you can
there’s a huge library of things you can do and WordPress is is fast its SEO
do and WordPress is is fast its SEO friendly there’s lots of good advice out
friendly there’s lots of good advice out there for WordPress bloggers great
there for WordPress bloggers great themes tons of developers so those would
themes tons of developers so those would be my my top three I can give you 20
be my my top three I can give you 20 them a couple of things more than I like
them a couple of things more than I like to going on user you super busy mobile
to going on user you super busy mobile everyone talk about mobile and I mean in
everyone talk about mobile and I mean in Italy we bad but with mobile we have
Italy we bad but with mobile we have three mobile each so
three mobile each so is an exploding market obviously and one
is an exploding market obviously and one big question is okay if I have a mobile
big question is okay if I have a mobile app and I think about the SEO so how can
app and I think about the SEO so how can I have my mobile app more visible on top
I have my mobile app more visible on top of App Store or Google Play
of App Store or Google Play is there any specific tip that you can
is there any specific tip that you can give that you can provide for people who
give that you can provide for people who may be or company who maybe they have a
may be or company who maybe they have a mobile app but they don’t know how to
mobile app but they don’t know how to scale the ranking yeah okay so the
scale the ranking yeah okay so the mobile world the mobile app world is
mobile world the mobile app world is very very different from the web world
very very different from the web world most of the apps that get downloaded
most of the apps that get downloaded don’t get downloaded through search but
don’t get downloaded through search but if they do get downloaded through search
if they do get downloaded through search it’s not a search for anything generic
it’s not a search for anything generic right so people don’t search for you
right so people don’t search for you know app that lets me check in that
know app that lets me check in that local businesses they search for
local businesses they search for Foursquare right they don’t search for
Foursquare right they don’t search for app that lets me send 140 character
app that lets me send 140 character messages to my friend they search for
messages to my friend they search for Twitter
Twitter so really the search is not unbranded
so really the search is not unbranded like it is on the web right on the web
like it is on the web right on the web people do perform those kinds of
people do perform those kinds of searches though they’ll say like oh I’m
searches though they’ll say like oh I’m looking for local restaurants in Seattle
looking for local restaurants in Seattle and those types of searches happen a lot
and those types of searches happen a lot on mobile devices but they happen on the
on mobile devices but they happen on the web not in the App Store
web not in the App Store so ranking in the App Store is doesn’t
so ranking in the App Store is doesn’t mean the same thing as ranking in web
mean the same thing as ranking in web search I’d be very careful about
search I’d be very careful about thinking like oh I don’t rank very well
thinking like oh I don’t rank very well for the keyword that I thought I was
for the keyword that I thought I was supposed to target don’t worry about
supposed to target don’t worry about keywords in the App Store but you are
keywords in the App Store but you are worried about these downloads and you’re
worried about these downloads and you’re worried about ratings right you want to
worried about ratings right you want to get lots of good ratings from people and
get lots of good ratings from people and that means building a very very slick
that means building a very very slick app and building usually it means
app and building usually it means building a marketing platform or
building a marketing platform or marketing channels not in the App Store
marketing channels not in the App Store themselves meaning on the web so that
themselves meaning on the web so that means you want to get a you know a
means you want to get a you know a powerful Twitter account and lots of
powerful Twitter account and lots of people liking your page on Facebook and
people liking your page on Facebook and lots of people maybe posting your image
lots of people maybe posting your image of images of things in your app to
of images of things in your app to Pinterest and you know
Pinterest and you know be making the home page of Reddit gaming
be making the home page of Reddit gaming if you have a game app those kinds of
if you have a game app those kinds of things that drive classic demand and
things that drive classic demand and branding on the web that’s really what
branding on the web that’s really what you’re what you’re looking for
you’re what you’re looking for all right that’s very interesting
all right that’s very interesting because I actually I think most of the
because I actually I think most of the businesses they think the same way where
businesses they think the same way where they’re mobile so that they use the same
they’re mobile so that they use the same approach what do you think will happen
approach what do you think will happen in in two years time I mean in in this
in in two years time I mean in in this word Google will be the most dominant
word Google will be the most dominant player Facebook will become the most
player Facebook will become the most dominant player do you have if you can
dominant player do you have if you can open your magic your magic sphere you
open your magic your magic sphere you know what we happen I mean where would
know what we happen I mean where would you suggest do you best or be on the
you suggest do you best or be on the right train there on the right direction
right train there on the right direction again I mean I’d go back to saying that
again I mean I’d go back to saying that some channels are gonna be right for
some channels are gonna be right for some businesses sometimes Google is all
some businesses sometimes Google is all wrong for a business I’ve worked with
wrong for a business I’ve worked with lots of lots of startups that make a
lots of lots of startups that make a software product and I say well is
software product and I say well is anyone searching for this it may say no
anyone searching for this it may say no it doesn’t exist yet okay well then
it doesn’t exist yet okay well then don’t do SEO you can rank or you know
don’t do SEO you can rank or you know newfangled thingamajig all you want but
newfangled thingamajig all you want but nobody’s searching for it yet so I would
nobody’s searching for it yet so I would say go to the channels where it makes
say go to the channels where it makes sense in terms of who’s gonna be
sense in terms of who’s gonna be dominant place I think Facebook and
dominant place I think Facebook and Twitter and a few of these other ones I
Twitter and a few of these other ones I mean I don’t see tumblr going anywhere
mean I don’t see tumblr going anywhere but up I think Pinterest is gonna
but up I think Pinterest is gonna continue to grow
continue to grow it’ll be a niche social network but
it’ll be a niche social network but it’ll continue to grow or square is
it’ll continue to grow or square is going to continue to be big they they
going to continue to be big they they add users all the time they’re growing
add users all the time they’re growing engagement all the time or local it’s
engagement all the time or local it’s very big Yelp is a huge network that’s
very big Yelp is a huge network that’s continuing to grow internationally for
continuing to grow internationally for local business particularly for finding
local business particularly for finding local business but tons of people who
local business but tons of people who don’t even go to Google anymore they
don’t even go to Google anymore they just pop up and Yelp on their you know
just pop up and Yelp on their you know on their mobile device so you need to be
on their mobile device so you need to be on the on the right platform I don’t see
on the on the right platform I don’t see one of these companies dominating all
one of these companies dominating all the others what I see is a very diverse
the others what I see is a very diverse world on the web and in the mobile
world on the web and in the mobile is there some new startup that you would
is there some new startup that you would say hey let’s keep an eye sore on those
say hey let’s keep an eye sore on those guys because they good I don’t know path
guys because they good I don’t know path or I don’t know is there any platform
or I don’t know is there any platform that you would say this is good one
that you would say this is good one I think path is an interesting one but I
I think path is an interesting one but I haven’t seen them quite break into the
haven’t seen them quite break into the mainstream yet but they they could be
mainstream yet but they they could be four squares a little like that they’re
four squares a little like that they’re kind of trailing but they could get
kind of trailing but they could get somewhere it wouldn’t surprise me if we
somewhere it wouldn’t surprise me if we have something something new in the well
have something something new in the well I know they’re technically they’re big
I know they’re technically they’re big but I think Google+ is actually going to
but I think Google+ is actually going to be a very very big and interesting
be a very very big and interesting social network on the scale of a
social network on the scale of a LinkedIn or a Twitter maybe not a
LinkedIn or a Twitter maybe not a Facebook but in that you know a couple
Facebook but in that you know a couple hundred million active users and very
hundred million active users and very very powerful for influencing SEO so you
very powerful for influencing SEO so you know if you’re not on Google+ today and
know if you’re not on Google+ today and you want to rank well in Google
you want to rank well in Google get on there even if none of your
get on there even if none of your friends on there even if you feel like
friends on there even if you feel like it’s a ghost town and oh there’s nobody
it’s a ghost town and oh there’s nobody that get there early don’t you don’t
that get there early don’t you don’t want to be late to the game on a
want to be late to the game on a platform that could change your business
platform that could change your business that’s injury I think a lot of companies
that’s injury I think a lot of companies they are totally under estimating now
they are totally under estimating now Google+ oh I think in Europe I don’t
Google+ oh I think in Europe I don’t know the numbers but I don’t think they
know the numbers but I don’t think they the big numbers in many countries at the
the big numbers in many countries at the moment at least which is which is why
moment at least which is which is why it’s a great time to adopt early yes a
it’s a great time to adopt early yes a rental last question I was curious you
rental last question I was curious you recently wrote about in Italian I would
recently wrote about in Italian I would say with my horrible English accent I
say with my horrible English accent I would call it CRO C are all about
would call it CRO C are all about conversion how do you say crossroad
conversion how do you say crossroad oh it’s just like SEO it’s CRO rate
oh it’s just like SEO it’s CRO rate optimisation and I was really interested
optimisation and I was really interested in it I just you know in 30 seconds but
in it I just you know in 30 seconds but if you have tips for four
if you have tips for four for companies willing to improve their
for companies willing to improve their conversion conversion and then obviously
conversion conversion and then obviously my suggest is good to check your
my suggest is good to check your presentation about CRO because it’s very
presentation about CRO because it’s very very interesting how you you’ve been
very interesting how you you’ve been using it on SEOmoz so very interesting
using it on SEOmoz so very interesting but what would you recommend about
but what would you recommend about improving conversion on a landing page
improving conversion on a landing page typically your website so my biggest tip
typically your website so my biggest tip for conversion is imagine that you’ve
for conversion is imagine that you’ve got two circles right so one circle one
got two circles right so one circle one over here is what the user is looking
over here is what the user is looking for and circle and this this circle over
for and circle and this this circle over here is what the web page provides you
here is what the web page provides you want the overlap to be perfect you want
want the overlap to be perfect you want the web page to provide exactly what the
the web page to provide exactly what the user is looking for that’s actually very
user is looking for that’s actually very rare visit a lot of web pages where you
rare visit a lot of web pages where you think I think what they’re trying to do
think I think what they’re trying to do is very different from what I want to do
is very different from what I want to do if you align those two things that’s
if you align those two things that’s when you get great conversion activity
when you get great conversion activity and that means looking at the keywords
and that means looking at the keywords that are sending traffic it means asking
that are sending traffic it means asking smart questions people who are visiting
smart questions people who are visiting your website the best thing that you can
your website the best thing that you can do for conversion rate optimisation in
do for conversion rate optimisation in terms of figuring out how to align those
terms of figuring out how to align those things is to talk to your users ask them
things is to talk to your users ask them smart questions why did you come to the
smart questions why did you come to the website what were you hoping to find ask
website what were you hoping to find ask the people who bought why did you buy
the people who bought why did you buy what why do you keep buying for me ask
what why do you keep buying for me ask the people who didn’t buy what meet you
the people who didn’t buy what meet you come in the first place and why didn’t
come in the first place and why didn’t you buy figure out what those objections
you buy figure out what those objections are and then start to address those it
are and then start to address those it it’s very simple and yet so many people
it’s very simple and yet so many people don’t take advantage of it and that
don’t take advantage of it and that presentation by the way that you’re
presentation by the way that you’re talking about it set bitly slash
talking about it set bitly slash big-picture CRM yes I’m actually a huge
big-picture CRM yes I’m actually a huge fan of a tool called Unbounce it allows
fan of a tool called Unbounce it allows you to create web pages and landing
you to create web pages and landing pages and make changes to them without
pages and make changes to them without being a market without being a web
being a market without being a web developer or a software engineer and
developer or a software engineer and that’s really really handy for a lot of
that’s really really handy for a lot of marketers with write HTML code and try
marketers with write HTML code and try to figure out the CSS layout you can
to figure out the CSS layout you can make a lot of changes let’s start
make a lot of changes let’s start testing right away but you will the
testing right away but you will the problem is you won’t know what to test
problem is you won’t know what to test or how to test until you talk to your
or how to test until you talk to your users all right rent I
users all right rent I really really went long but I want to
really really went long but I want to thank you so much for being here today
thank you so much for being here today I’m good luck for everything I waiting
I’m good luck for everything I waiting for you when you coming in Europe
for you when you coming in Europe awesome reporter right
awesome reporter right thank you so much bye right
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