What is Scientology – A Religion or Business?

when you think about the word
Scientology what does it mean I’d rather
be dead than to be the seriously you say
that oh absolutely I contemplated just
driving into a wall and just killing
mice you’re being serious
absolutely suicide death would be a
better existence than living there when
you see beating people wouldn’t wouldn’t
punching with your fists into the face
we’d be in meanings and he would punch
people in the meeting like while they’re
sitting can you say and this is so hard
to believe though how can an
organization do that period under the
guise of religion you have thousands and
thousands of these little aliens
attached to you I have aliens attached
to everybody does especially you either
it’s brilliance or the people who
represented a government that approved
so before we watch this interview I want
to preface a few things because a part
of this interview is going to be
controversial there’s a lot of areas
where I push the guest and some areas
where he’s gonna say some things that
Scientologists are not gonna agree with
or like they’re probably not even going
to they’re probably gonna hate some of
it on what the guest says so while we
did this interview we decided to reach
out to David Miscavige ourselves we send
the email our executive producer Gerard
Haren sent an email to him saying I’m
the executive producer Patrick David
invited to the media YouTube’s
number-one channel for entrepreneurs we
just interviewed mark Healey and in an
effort to provide objective fair and
balanced coverage will like to offer mr.
David Miscavige equal time to tell a
side of this story Thank You Gerard here
that was our email to him to be able to
sit down with him because there’s a lot
of questions I have I’ve worked with a
lot of Scientologists myself I’ve had
many good experiences I am NOT one
myself there was a time of my life where
I was extremely curious as an atheist at
the time I went and studied everything
I’d go to every Church and I debate
everybody all these tough questions
because I was trying to get clarity for
myself this is the response we got from
the Church of Scientology dear mr. heron
thank you very much controversy about
the church is inevitably traceable to
the same handful of bitter former
members kicked out for their malfeasance
and ethical lapses many years ago those
who seek to introduce controversy where
none exists have an agenda in their case
it is always financial they get paid to
feed tales to tabloids that are
salacious and untrue they know nothing
about what is in our new television
channel our spiritual headquarters in
Clearwater Bridge publications are
international dissemination and
distribution center and our new churches
that spend 23 nations and six continents
you know nothing about Scientology media
productions our humanitarian drug rehab
and social betterment programs and our
volunteer ministries who have helped
millions around the world with
remarkable success they have no
credibility those who live in tin houses
shouldn’t throw can openers we suggest
you look into them see for example and
they have a link below for you to find
out more about the gentlemen I’m
interviewing to be a gift full
disclosure
no one’s getting paid for this we are
not paying mark to do this interview we
don’t pay
yes to be interviewed on value taemin
that’s full disclosure mark and I don’t
know each other we don’t have a
friendship we don’t have a relationship
first time I ever met him was when he
was a guest on this show with that being
said as you watch this you will notice a
couple parts where he gets pushed very
very hard in certain areas and then
there’s an area where I pose a question
that’s gonna give a perspective that
nobody probably has thought about when
it comes down to the Church of
Scientology so I ask you to watch us
with an open mind from beginning to the
end and I really want to hear from you
to see what you took away from this
interview with mark Headley
on the stories regarding Scientology
truth or not I want to hear from me with
that being said here’s the interview
with mark evening so I got a call from
few entrepreneurs good friends of mine
they said Pat what do you think about
Scientology and I said listen I think
the best way to answer the question of
what I think about Scientology and I
have my own opinions about it have a lot
of friends who are Scientologists and
I’ve worked with many in the business
who are Scientologists I said let me
reach out and find out who we can
interview that can tell you all about
Scientology and we can go through
questions so we contacted David
Miscavige he’s the one that pretty much
runs Scientology and we realized the
last time he did an interview apparently
was 24 years ago with Ted Koppel and so
then after that we our team did a little
research we came up with the name that
we found Mark Healy we contacted and now
this may not necessarily be the favorite
person that Scientologists would want me
to interview because it’d be a lot
different if we did David but if we
can’t get David we wanted to get
somebody we got mark here and pour for
some of you to know who mark is mark
worked with the church for 15 years from
1990 up until 2005 four years after l
ron Hubbard died he was there for 15
years the int base right the
International base which is it’s that
it’s the facility that controls and runs
Scientology international
internationally and you guys you guys
got roughly what 5,000 people that work
for the Church of Scientology give or
take yeah and at that facility there was
about it varied but there was about
maybe five six seven hundred people at
that one facility in California got it
and he also wrote a book called blown
for good which we’ll talk about the book
which blown for good he’ll tell you what
blow means blow means when you step away
from the church
he stepped away from the church and some
ugly things happen to him he’s going to
share some of that experience and aside
from that you were also in a recent Emmy
award-winning series called Scientology
with Leah Remini the aftermath right
there’s now going into three seasons
you’ve been interviewed on that multiple
times yeah
yourself so maybe we’ll talk about that
a little bit but with that being said
thanks for coming on two volumes I am
looking forward to the sit-down so
before we get into it and get a little
bit about your experience on you know
your background I know your mother was a
Scientologist in 1979 she joined the
church you were six or seven years old
at the time and then afterwards all you
know Scientology until you started
working at 16 to 31 but what is
Scientology to you when you think about
the word Scientology what does it mean
now when I think then that vanam yeah I
just knew it as like a belief system l
ron Hubbard has written thousands and
thousands of policy letters and
bulletins and the policy letters have to
do with how you work in an organization
and how and I also apply to business
Scientology businesses and then the
bulletins have to do with the like the
teachings of Scientology and the the
auditing the counseling they do in
Scientology and the courses and that
sort of thing so I went to a Scientology
school when I was little I did
Scientology courses at the Scientology
Center at night and that’s sort of all I
knew as a kid was that’s how we that’s
how we did things you just they have
certain ways of going about living and
and that’s all I knew as a kid so when I
was recruited to work for the see
organization it’s almost expected when
you’re a kid in Scientology that the the
best thing you could possibly do is join
the see organization because of because
that’s the most dedicated group of
Scientologists they dedicate a billion
years they sign you actually sign a
contract a billion-year contract when
you join the see organization meaning
meaning what meaning if you disappears
for the rest of your life you’re with
them yeah like when you die you need to
come back the next lifetime to work for
them again in the C organization
when sometimes when people die they
actually have an in memoriam notice that
goes out and it says at the end this
person is granted a 21-year leave of
absence and we expect to see him back
you you’re interesting yeah so so let me
ask you did you yourself your mother was
one until you joined so for your mother
was at Scientology’s eleven years from
79 to 91 till you join us started
working in the in space did you look at
Scientology as a religion or was it more
a secret society type of a thing like a
Freemasons was it more like a personal
development Tony Robbins type of esque
group that had been around longer than
he had been around and it’s kind of like
the Earl Nightingale type of you know
I’m learning how to process issues had
him work better how did you viewed when
you were in it not today how did you
mean when you were in it well they kind
of drilled into us the whole religion
angle like we’re religion we believe in
these are our religious beliefs so when
I was there I would say I viewed it as a
religion but at the same time when
you’re at the international headquarters
there’s crazy going on you all over
the place so when you see that stuff
it’s there’s a lot of mental gymnastics
happening to justify we’re doing this in
the name of religion like like this guy
David Miscavige is is beating people you
actually witness them absolutely
absolute when you say beating people
would punching with your fists into the
face shoving kicking punching kicking
throwing people across tables guards at
Walsall bed this has happening to most
of the people that he would give
beatdowns to were international
executives so the people that were in
charge of running Scientology there were
the most beat people at that property
these are influential names these are
influential figures within the church
yeah if any Scientologist knew that the
people of the people that he was beating
they would know all they would all know
their names like Mark Ingeborg mark
Yaeger gilma sev Heber Jan’s any of the
people mike rinder
these people that he would give a
beat-down to were
well known executives in Scientology and
they were there also in the see
organization so the P the people that
are fighting and the people that are
beating each other up are the top
executives of Scientology so it’s not it
wouldn’t be a public member like a
person who goes into an Oregon
Cincinnati that person wouldn’t see or
be part of behinds it’s all behind the
curtain
did it ever happened to you did you on
two occasions David Miscavige struck me
and one of the last occasions was in the
2000s it was shortly before I left and
he punched me and he he basically I had
glasses at the time he punched me so
hard in the face that my glasses broke
and and I went up against a cabinet and
like a like kind of like a desk unit and
when I I didn’t fall down or anything
but when I kind of regained myself he
saw that I was coming for him and he’s
not a big guy he usually has an
entourage with him though and as soon as
he saw the look in my eyes these two
guys grabbed me and they just took me
out of the building and as I was being
let out of the building he said he said
did you see that that guy was gonna hit
me and I said you bet I thought they
were leading me on it he said that yeah
he said did you see that that guy was
gonna hit me now let me ask you this not
not to play the devil’s advocate but how
many other people have come out saying
what you’re saying about David actually
hitting people at least twenty or thirty
other beat what twenty other people have
come out saying this has happened
absolutely so let me ask you if that is
the case how come he’s still running the
entire thing because they’ve got a group
of 50 people there that they write
affidavits for the people right they
give him to them right and they sign him
yeah but it’s so you know he’s got 50
people against the 30 people that say
that never happened he never touched a
soul David Miscavige never even yelled
at anybody once he found a little birdie
outside in the grass and he picked him
up and nursed him back to life I mean
you the affidavits of these people
writing but they’re like they’re like
pure fiction but they’ve got they could
and they and if they wanted to they
could have 200 of those affidavit has
there ever been a deep investigation
into the church or no absolutely like
deep investment
I’ve seen government drone footage of
the international headquarters and that
the FBI showed me on a laptop and what’s
been the court ruling afterwards there
wasn’t it was it was dropped so but you
see how that so so I’m not trying to
defend a Scientologist I’m not trying to
defend the other side I’m just trying to
get a argument on both sides to say okay
if that’s really happened and why why
hasn’t the court would because if the
course so somebody may process it and
say well the court probably didn’t
because David paid him off well no I can
tell you exactly how they tell me why
tell me cuz whoever has the best lawyers
and whoever spends the most money on
their legal team is the one who wins a
case and Scientology in the cases that
have been brought against them yeah have
like myself and my wife sued Scientology
and Scientology spent tens of millions
of dollars fighting that case your case
my case just your kids that’s my case
Scientology has an unlimited legal and
private investigator and dirty-tricks
budget that they can pull from they have
they have an entire spy wing in Los
Angeles in the 1970s there is a group
called the Guardians office and that’s
the that was the spy wing of Scientology
they perpetrated the largest
infiltration into the United States
government in its history
you can google this Guardians office FBI
it’ll show up I think it was eleven of
Scientology top officials were jailed so
it had jail time based on this whole
thing the FBI conducted a raid of
several Scientology facilities I think
was in 1977 and in that raid they found
documents that exonerated people that
had Scientology had sued and they found
all this evidence about how Scientology
basically framed these people all sorts
of dirty tricks okay
that organization is called the Office
of Special Affairs today and it’s in
Hollywood it’s on 63-31 Hollywood
Boulevard and that organization is the
one that hires the lawyers they hire
private investigators is it part of the
church absolutely it’s the people that
work in the Office of Special Affairs
are
see organization members one thing you
got to know about Scientology is that l
ron Hubbard if he wrote anything that’s
it’s it’s in stone it can never be
changed an l ron Hubbard wrote a policy
that says when somebody leaves
Scientology and if they attack
Scientology they speak badly about
Scientology the policy is to destroy
them utterly is that public to the
members no that’s public that’s if I’m
talking work there was an it’s an
internal policy who knows who has read
that the five thousand people that
worked there most of them probably have
and they know about it this is not a
good this is not an this is a common
thing people would know it if they leave
you have to destroy them even to a point
there’s a book it’s called the ethics
book that is a book that any
Scientologist career yeah anybody can
read it even if you’re not a
Scientologist and in there it has crimes
and high crimes and misdemeanors and and
in that it talks about if you associate
with a suppressive person if you help a
suppressive person if you give a
suppressive person a platform you have
to speak out and these are high crimes
so either way this group the Office of
Special Affairs they’re one of their
sole purposes is to destroy critics of
Scientology that’s all they do they
actually have graphs on their wall on
their desk unit of how many
Scientologists they’ve cut connections
from these suppressant prayers some may
say well that’s common in other
religions as well right like I was part
of a group then I watched the religion
of what happened in front of my eyes
when the Apple the people stepped away
from the church their families turned
against those two people it was very
ugly when that happened on like wow that
was pretty ugly and they used to be
lifted up and all this other but just
because some happened yeah there’s one
thing in Scientology it’s called
disconnection mmm-hmm in other they have
different words for it another religion
yeah ok that’s one thing
so I leave and you don’t want to talk to
anymore ok that’s fine ok but when you
call child services to try and get my
kids taken away or you have private
investigators camped outside my house
are you saying that up from somebody
else if that happen to you know that
happened to me they call child services
to take your kids away child services
got an anonymous tip that our kids were
in danger and child services showed up
to our house
when we were working with the FBI in the
investigation we were getting we gave
all the information over of this child
services thing to the FBI without saying
it they said yeah they did that so then
so that’s us I’m saying you can say oh
well other religions I don’t know how
many other religions have millions and
millions of dollars loaded dedicated to
spending on private investigators to
follow former members they don’t know
the exact what I’ll tell you this there
was an individual who worked at the
international headquarters and he left
in the 1980s David Miscavige and this is
documented this has been reported on by
the Tampa Bay Times to private
investigators were paid by David
Miscavige and they reported to David
Miscavige they watched this former
Scientologists who worked at the nth
base for 25 years to private
investigators that was their whole life
they were paid millions and just two
guys were paid millions and millions of
dollars to watch one single
ex-scientologists that’s one how
important was that one he was the guy
that David Miscavige they’re they have
these levels in Scientology yeah they
have ot levels operating thetan levels
and you pay hundreds of thousands of
dollars to get that level I’ve seen 15
levels I’ve seen ten levels how many
levels they have eight levels okay okay
this guy that left David Miscavige
thought he took nine and ten with him
because they don’t have a nine in ten
like they have l ron Hubbard wrote a
chart that goes from ot one to ot
fifteen but that’s what I’ve seen though
yeah one two or two fifteen yeah but l
ron hubbard only finished up to eight
before he died he himself he himself
only wrote truth revealed that’s right
he only wrote up to eight so they’ve
been telling Scientologists that these 9
through 15 exist but they don’t that’s
if that’s a that’s fiction but when this
guy this guy that left David Miscavige
thinks oh I think he took nine and ten
with him because he worked the guy that
left worked with all ron Hubbard so this
is not a rake
you know guy that left that they spent
twenty five million dollars on this is a
pretty influential guide that they left
okay so either way yep so you say it’s
like other religions well I worked there
for 15 years and I’ve seen other I’ve
seen other things and don’t get me wrong
I’ve seen other horrible stuff that
happens and other cults and other
religions but from working there for 15
years I can tell you that Scientology
and Scientology been around since the
50s Scientology has spent 60 to 70 years
perfecting this spy ops this black black
ops type of engagement against former
members so there might be other places
that do it
Scientology’s spy operations are not low
level they’re they they know how to do
some well I mean if you think about it
Enron Enron is a very big company multi
multi-billion dollar company that’s some
of the best lawyers better lawyers than
anybody else that at that time yeah they
still were taken down I mean you can
share do barristers these are fifty
billion dollar empires younger than
Scientology bigger than a lot of these
are massive empires and if the proper
investigation is done they still go down
how come that hasn’t happened to
Scientology and all Scientology just
won’t give or take twenty to thirty
thousand members I don’t know the exact
numbers you would know better than I
would that’s about accurate that’s
accurate twenty to thirty thousand
members and you know the biggest name is
probably Tom Cruise and you have
Travolta I know in the past
Seinfeld dabbled with a little bit but
he says I was never part of it I just
took a few courses Brad Pitt used to be
the one he used to date a girl who was a
big Scientologist you know he used to
dabble with it a little bit you have
some other names Katie Holmes all these
girls that were with Tom Cruise always
to be part of it one of Tom Cruise’s
ex-wife that introduced him to
Scientology she left Miraj yeah she used
to be signed out and Tom Cruise is a
part of it Greta Van Susteren Susteren
is a Scientologist herself and she works
for Fox News you know I don’t know about
John Travolta
aside from John Travolta style I dressed
like John Travolta from Saturday Night
Fever when I was in the Army he’s got
great taste he knows how to dance but I
don’t know if I would put John Travolta
as a genius I don’t know if I would put
him in that category
he’s not their best spokes but I would
tell you Tom comes across as a very
smart
guy to me Tumnus when I saw Tom’s
interview with Matt Lauer and he’s going
back and forth may have you know at some
people said it hurt his career but he
made the comeback that interview when
you listen to him there’s parts of it
where it’s kind of like you know
disguise making sense and Matt he’s
pushing math back they’re going back and
forth and Greta it’s not a dummy Greta
is a smart person so if it’s what you
say it is and you’re not the only person
that saying this why have so many smart
intelligent people have been turned on
to this why is that is it just because
of the power and the fame or is because
the content has actually changed our
lives I explain it like this let’s say
you have a relationship problem like you
just can’t get into relationship okay
and you some of the Scientologist says
hey we have a course we can help you
with relationship sure I already know as
a Scientologist that is and they call
this a ruin something that you have in
your life that you can’t figure out and
you can’t solve it they say we have a
course that will help you with that
exact thing and then you it’s 50 bucks
100 bucks you do that course when you do
that course you find out there’s
actually another 10 things that are
messed up with your life that you didn’t
even know we’re messed up you just
wanted to sort out getting a girlfriend
okay well now they sell you another
$5,000 with the course is to handle
those ten problems that you figured out
okay fast-forward fifteen years later
your third divorce you spent a half a
million dollars and you’ve been chasing
this relationship thing that then turned
into all this other stuff and it doesn’t
matter what your ruin is Scientology has
a course that’ll handle that ruin if
you’re a person that is not good at
communicating they have a communications
course if you can’t get along with your
family
they have a course called how to get
along with others you can do that course
they’ve isolated and this is the genius
of l ron Hubbard he isolated all these
different areas of life that people have
problems with and they made these little
$50.00 courses that’s the cheese once
they get you in the trap then it just
goes like that forever all the way up to
ot8
it’s always a bait-and-switch all these
things I say oh you’ve got these
aliens it’s creating imaginary problems
to have a solution for the imaginary
problem which is called the Galleon
dialectic which is exactly I don’t know
if you’re familiar with that I am but
this is the best part of it it’s like a
house of cards this whole thing right
but you build it right so you’re not
active I mean are you in right you build
the house of cards yourself and you’re
navigating all these problems that you
have now essentially Schorr put in wrote
you’ve put in your own roadblocks in
front of you and they’re saying oh this
is how we can get you through that
roadblock and that’s essentially what
happens now I’ve talked to
Scientologists that have gone all the
way up to OT eight mhm and they’re like
yeah I got nothing like if I could
rewind and got rid of all that I’d be
right where I am right now you learn a
lot of things in Scientology about
yourself but most of those things are
prompted for you to say so they are
trying to get your money that’s the
bottom line they’re trying to get your
money and they’re also trying to get you
to get other people in so they can get
those people’s money and now here’s
another thing and not a lot of poor
Scientologists if you know people are in
Scientology most of those people that
you know have money because they don’t
need poor people they don’t need people
that don’t have money because there’s
like what are they gonna do they can do
that little fifty dollar course and then
what that’s it okay that’s not a that’s
not a good value for them to get in
those sort of people and l ron Hubbard
in I think it was in the 60s of the 70s
he actually wrote this program I think
it was called Project celebrity and he
made a list of all the people that he
wanted in Scientology and said go go get
him and they’ve been doing that ever
since
they get one Scientology celebrity in
and then he gets one or two other ones
in and then that one gets one or two
other ones in and so even though they
only have twenty thirty thousand people
in Scientology
yeah five thousand of those are given
them a few million bucks a year
they don’t pay any like they don’t pay
these five thousand people that work
there they’re not making any money when
you work there what will you make him
when you work there for
fifteen years I was getting if you got
paid it was fifty bucks but then taxes
got taken out it was about forty six
bucks twenty four cents a week I got
when I loved it with how much forty six
dollars and 26 cents a week or twenty
four cents a week I can’t remember it if
I could
FSST I whatever they took out but this
is the thing I was working a 120 hours a
week every week that was the schedule
was about a hundred and ten hours a week
but we worked sometimes we pulled
all-nighters sometimes we hold multiple
all-nighters but either way it was about
it averaged out about between 110
hundred 20 hours a week that we worked
52 weeks where you’re sleeping you’re
sleeping at the place now at the inn
headquarters they actually live right
next to where they work but at the time
when I lived there we I live just down
the street from this compound so you
didn’t live at the compound I didn’t
live at the compound I was restricted to
the property not allowed to leave the
property which was probably for a year
out of those 15 years I slept under my
desk or in a closet or something like
that oh so you were not confined to have
to live on the property you did live off
the property I did and oh you had a car
you could go around you can do your
things I had a motorcycle but most the
time I just walk back and forth okay
because you hear some stories about you
know you’re confined you cannot leave
you have yeah watch the only TV that
they’re playing over there and they edit
the videos and all this other stuff it’s
a little you actually lived off of
campus but like a block away like I’m a
blonde waitress well let me ask you can
I date another girl can I go none okay
you go to a bar can I have a girl come
over now when you get off work the bars
are already closed they’ve already had
last call by the time you get on bars I
know the white bars not in Gilman Hot
Springs California listen but here you
go me marketplace I can sell alcohol
then make the money but go ahead yeah
when I left in 2005 from 1990 to 2005 I
got my Social Security statement it said
for the entire 15 years that I worked
there I made a total of 29 thousand
dollars for 15 years of 120 hours a week
I think I averaged it out one day
between the all-nighters and all that
stuff I think it was about 30 cents an
hour 30 35 cents an hour which is less
then slave labor in China people that
make iPhones in China are making more
money than co-op members and they get
Sundays off we didn’t get Sundays off we
had to work seven days a week you said
20 how many thousand dollars and 15
years $29,000 in 15 years do you have
this to show it absolutely I’ll send it
to you you have you I haven’t okay so
you made $29,000 I made I made more
money in the first three or four months
after I left in 2005 I made more money
in that few months that I made in 15
years working force but how is that
again so here’s the thing they’re making
getting all this money from people
you’re not paying anybody anything yeah
and so it’s basically a cash machine
they have they’re buying properties
because they can’t stockpile the money
as a nonprofit I don’t know all the
legalities of it but I don’t think
you’re allowed to hoard the money you
got to spend it and so they buy real
estate with that money and then they
renovate that real estate and then they
get that property designated historical
property and then so they’re making
money on real estate they’re making
money on donations and really as far as
I can tell the only thing that they
spend money on is legal private
investigators and dirty tricks that’s
like their that’s one of their biggest
budget expenses is messing with former
members to not have them tell what
happened in Scientology and here’s the
reason people say that right now
Scientology’s got about three billion
dollars and a lot of that is soft assets
if you had three billion dollars how
much would you spend to keep it five
hundred million on legal that’s nothing
I’d spend it to keep the three billion
but how many people out there like you
can say that you worked 120 hours a week
for many years for $29,000
you know 30 cents an hour how many
people also can say what you just said
that you know of that are out that that
I’ve left at least a hundred at least a
hundred yeah so here’s my question
how can an organization do that period
under the guise of religion
because when the other guides of
religion you can do that with your
absolution
yeah you turn this whole place into a
religion you just lock the door keep
these guys here all night long because
wait a minute law that’s a law well no
the state or the federal government is
not allowed to interfere with a relation
of church and state that’s right you
can’t a judge can’t say you can’t do it
that way because the religious doctrines
say this is how we do it so even even
today a court order was issued in a case
like a ruling was issued in a couple
that they basically gave about a million
bucks to Scientology and they were
ripped off they donated it for things
that other people were also donating so
like they said oh we’re gonna put a star
on top of this building and clear what
are called the super power building will
they get to literally call that it’s
there’s a building in Clearwater Florida
called the super power building this is
Satan do does it say absolutely they
they call it the super power building
it’s got a giant it’s actually pretty
cool named super pal be like if I go in
there am I gonna have super powers are
they just like no x-men and people like
that are in there no but you know the
crazy thing is that when you leave
Scientology and you speak out about it
you’re called a suppressive person and
any Scientologist that runs into you
they have to run away the candy new
repressive person I’m a suppressive
person what am i interviewing you you’re
called a pts a potential trouble source
because you’re connected to a
suppressive person but here’s the thing
I wanted to tell you yes Mario your pts
just by being connected to me right now
you’re a PT a– now what if I would have
interviewed David Miscavige would I
still be a pts or no well no you’re
connected to me now that’s it we’re
locked I’m a pts for life well unless
you disconnect from me you have to send
me a formal letter saying I can’t
associate with you anymore because
you’ve committed suppressive acts and
then maybe depending on how much money
you give them they can take you off the
the list of being a pts but here’s my
this is my point about the superpowers
if I walk into a grocery store and
there’s ten Scientologists there they’re
going to run out of the grocery store
they can’t even look at me or be near me
okay
even if they’ve got super they’ve done
super power so I I table the question
who’s really got the super
I could scatter them like roaches anyway
do you ever run into these guys
oh I’ve run into people and they
literally will turn their backs and walk
away
they can’t even look at me they cannot
even look at me because I’m a
suppressive person if and in Scientology
is a snitch culture so if there’s
another Scientologist in the egg aisle
and I’m in the cereal aisle with the
goody goody two-shoes Scientologist that
other person if they fight if they talk
to me that other person will write a
report and say hey I saw Joe Blow
talking to Marc Headley and then that
person will get pulled in and say what
the hell why are you talking to Marc
Headley in our in our industry there’s a
little bit of that with me as well but
that’s a whole different topic but go
ahead okay so so you were saying that
this this super power building that we
haven’t Florida right yes they were
donating these this couple was donating
a million dollars yeah well they donated
different amounts for different things
but they said we’re gonna put this cross
on top of this building well they told
another 50 people that they were paying
for the cross on the building so they
basically just over sold the same thing
to get money from people got it anyway
long story short a judge ruled today
that if you sign an agreement with
Scientology that says you’re going to be
it’s I think they call it a parishioner
agreement or some sort of agreement to
participate in Scientology when you sign
that it says in there that you will be
subjected to Scientology’s arbitration
rules so if you want your money back you
have to do with the Scientology way and
in Scientology it’s a kangaroo court
you’re a suppressive person now you want
your money back screw you
that’s it and the story you’re not
getting your money back and and your
your case doesn’t withstand in the court
like you go in there and say hey our
case was a separate thing in our case we
had we had different causes of action in
our case and because the FBI was
investigating Scientology for human
trafficking our lawyers put all the eggs
in the human trafficking basket which
was one of our causes of action and they
got rid of all the other causes of
action physical assault and false
imprisonment and whatever the other
causes of action were and the FBI the
FBI who knows exactly what happened but
that case fizzled and then our case was
dismissed because there wasn’t human
trafficking happening so who has won
against them so far
well they’ve settled a lot of cases and
I think I might have to I visit out to
be verified but I’m almost positive that
any case that has actually gone to trial
Scientology’s lost so if it goes to
trial they give me one example like
what’s what’s gone to trial there was a
case a big one involving a guy named
Larry Wollersheim and he sued the church
for thirty million dollars and they
fought it for years and years and years
and they actually and I was there in the
church when they were fighting this case
and they had this thing the slogan not
one thin dime for Wollersheim and they
fought it and they fought it and they
fought it and the day it was going to
trial the Scientologists gave him a
check for thirty million dollars they
gave him and as a sub is this it’s
unpublish she goes around telling
everybody he got a lot of times you’ve
got a lot of done so so okay let’s go
back a little bit I know we come we’ll
come back to this again why why was l
ron Hubbard so fascinating what made him
so you see some of his interviews the
way he would speak you know and and you
know the stories I was at this I was a
physicist I used to do this I used to be
in a marina I was a commander you know
and then you do the research and twice
he had to step down and this what but
why was he so fascinating that people
looked at him and say this is a
brilliant man why did it happen to him I
think he was charismatic and I think he
was full of
so he was a good bullshitter and he
would make up preposterous stories to
impress people and a lot of people
bought into those stories and like you
said he said he had this many medals and
he was this and he was that and his
childhood was this and he he was a
brother of the Blackfeet Indian all this
stuff and then when you actually people
started researching if I don’t like 90%
of what he said is complete so
I think he was like he was like a circus
barker he was like a carnival barker he
was a he he he got people riled up and
he got people excited and he said this
is what we’re doing and and it was a
time
in the 50s and the 60s when there was a
threat of nuclear war and there were all
the atomic bombs are gonna go off and so
people wanted something to grab on to
and they wanted something to believe in
and he was saying we’re against all that
we’re gonna go off and do this and I
think at that time it was sort of we’re
gonna be dead and maybe we should try
and do some was that the pitch
originally so yeah and a lot of his
early lectures he talks about atomic
bombs and what the government the whole
planet could be wiped out tomorrow and
there was always and that that’s another
thing in the Sea Org which was if we
don’t do the job right now we might not
get another chance
and we’ve got to be dedicated to the
bone we got to be dedicated because we
got so much work to do and and and if we
don’t do it the whole planets gonna get
why so who did he convince to become a
religion I mean whoever he sold the idea
to that approved it I mean that’s a the
idea it’s brilliance or the people who
represented a government that approved
it to be a religion are idiots well
which one is it
well what happened was they Scientology
in the 60s actually got a tax-exempt
religious recognition and then a lot of
the money was going to Hubbard and they
lost it for that exact reason because he
was getting the money and you can’t do
that
so they lost their tax exemption and
then they fought that all the way up
until 1993 and the IRS granted them
tax-exempt status in 1993 but what led
up to that was they filed thousands and
thousands of cases against individual
IRS agents they filed cases against the
IRS they were suing them everywhere and
anywhere in the United States the IRS
they were suing Scientology was suing
them when Scientology was suing the IRS
yes the individual agents of the IRS
they were they had launched legal cases
thousands I think it was like two
thousand something legal cases against
the IRS that Scientology filed when
Scientology was about to get tax
exemption they had a billion dollar tax
because they hadn’t been paying taxes
since they lost their tax exemption and
I think in the 60s of the 70s they had a
they owed a billion dollars if the IRS
would not have granted them tax
exemption they would have been done in
1993 Scientology would be no more
because they didn’t have a billion
dollars okay they went and met with the
Commissioner of the IRS at the time in
1993 and they basically told him if you
give us tax exemption this all goes away
all the cases will disappear tomorrow
they’ll be done gone I got a tax
exemption so it’s not like they bought
their way in exactly like they got to
they paid a billion dollars to get tax
exempt no no they didn’t pay the bill
they didn’t pay the bill they got tax
exemption and I think they settled any
outstanding taxes for like twenty
million dollars twenty thirty million
dollars and that was it you’re good to
go who approved that I think the
commissioners name was gold
Fred Goldberg I think was the
Commissioner of the IRS back in the 90s
this isn’t a 90s when this became
officials yeah 19 it was August 1993 and
now here’s the here’s the craziest thing
in this 1993 that’s seven years after he
died so it didn’t even happen while he
was alive no and he had said that
certain things and Scientology couldn’t
happen unless they were tax exempt so
there was pockets of money millions of
millions of dollars worth of money that
were parked places that could only be
unlocked if they became tax exempt these
were things that l ron Hubbard had
dictated before he passed away
but it’s so it’s not like the church
down the street that’s having a weekly
Sunday service and they’re doing
marriages and they’re doing funerals and
they’re doing something for the public
and for that reason we give them a break
Scientology is destroying families
they’re busting up relationships they’re
bankrupting people they’re putting money
on people’s credit cards illegally
they’re doing all sorts of things that
absolutely do not benefit the public but
they’re getting that same benefit of not
having to pay taxes and because of that
that’s how from 1993 to
now they go from owing a billion dollars
to having three billion dollars in
assets three billion dollars not a lot
of money for somebody to go after them
if you really think about it’s not but
they’re also they’re not that big
they’re just not that what’s the biggest
the church ever was is today the biggest
it’s ever been a thousand I would say in
the 90s I think in the 90s I probably
had I’d say a hundred thousand people so
they’ve dropped off tremendo since 1996
at the end at the international
headquarters they L weren’t Hubbard
wrote this policy that all statistics
have to be graphed all and they have
thousands and thousands of statistics
that they keep in Scientology
Scientology is micro managed to the enth
degree when we worked at the property
someone would come by every day and
check our graph every single day for
every single person they check your
graph to make sure that you had marked
it for the day that like hourly during a
day that’s efficiency okay it’s not
really because you spent a lot of time
marking the graph and there’s nothing
really to put on anyway but regardless
they have statistics in the in
headquarters by years and since 1996
Scientology statistics across the boards
yep membership enrollment new people in
OT AIDS ot fought all everything across
the boards down everything since 1996
and I think the reason that is is the
internet so the internet is working
against them right oh yeah because they
have this policy of disconnection and if
if you were in Scientology and you got
kicked out and your family didn’t talk
to you anymore that was it we never
heard from you again so let me let me
ask you some basic questions you know
religion questions so it’s a religion
what a Scientology believe happens when
you die they believe that you come back
reincarnation so they believe in
reincarnation yeah who was Scientology’s
God was there a creator no and you learn
about they I mean there’s policies from
Elrond there’s writings of Elrond Humber
where he says that Jesus is a pedophile
I mean they don’t believe in God there’s
absolutely no they say this when they
try to get people in that oh no you can
be a Buddhist no you can be a Christian
oh you can be a Catholic
that is one
percent not true and even some of the
crimes of in Scientology are mixing
practices so being a practicing Catholic
and being a Scientologist you can’t do
it it’s not allowed
but they believe they teach you that
you’re the eighth dynamic which is a God
so you could be a guy yeah now that’s a
very effective method that other
churches also use that if you get it to
a certain level you could be a God
Sharon they say you are God from day one
or you can be a guy no no there there is
a god dynamic they have these different
dynamics which it goes from one through
eight yeah and the eighth dynamic is the
god dynamic what has got to them like if
you define God to them and maybe it’s a
different definition for I think they
call it the creator or the a force a
universal force like you can create
whatever life you want you can create
planets you can’t refuse so okay now
that’s a different story
now we’re getting a little different
story but if you can create your own
life and your god maybe that’s their
interpretation you can be you’re your
own God so okay so who created
everything is it going back to them of
Dianetics to three different concepts of
Dianetics you know the real you know
what I’m talking about yeah what created
the planet what created that’s hard to
say because a lot of times l ron Hubbard
goes into trillions and trillions of
years ago and he talks about that
there’s billions and billions and
billions of planets what’s the craziest
thing you ever read that he said that’s
a lot give me one of them like sign or
something were if somebody said that’s
just craziness what is it they’re you
you can only wash them you can only wash
windows with ammonia and water and
newspaper period that’s it Windex is not
allowed like stupid stuff every time you
use a car you have to wash it
no I’m serious that one hopper broke
these things every time you use the car
you have to wash it if you drive to the
market and drive back here to wash your
car you can wash you can only wash
windows with ammonia and water and
newspapers that’s it you cannot use
Windex what else I don’t know that
that’s what I’m saying there’s so many
bizarre like you can’t use you can only
use one kind of shoe polish for your
boots
like one brand like but what’s that
what’s the psyche behind it what’s the
what’s the so what’s that word out word
said I mean that’s what I’m saying
it’s just it’s it’s whatever whatever
way the wind was blowing that day so
then is it a lot of telling you it’s
just a bunch of that’s why it’s
hard for me to say oh he said this one
thing you know this dude has said so but
you know what it makes me think Williams
so here’s what it makes me think about
makes me think about you know some of
these bigger families like Arnold
Schwarzenegger first time when he met
Jackie Kennedy’s brother John F Kennedy
when she met John F Kennedy he went up
to John F Kennedy and he said hey so
what’s your favorite color and John F
Kennedy answer was oh we only were red
he says no no but what’s your favorite
color
he says we like red no what’s yours so
these are some of the things you hear
that are weird but that’s maybe a
cultural ritual thing that they have for
their family so are these a lot of L ron
Hubbard’s or rituals that were passed
down to everybody
oh yeah like he would be seen as their
God yeah yeah okay no he is source
they call him source I’ll remember this
source got it so if L weren’t Hubbard
said you can only wash windows with
ammonia and newspaper and water that’s
it like you get in trouble if you get a
can of Windex out and you start spraying
those windows you you you’re gonna get a
report written on you what do they think
about promiscuity 100 percent against
that oh really
in the see organization if you want to
have relations with a girl you have to
be married
you can’t even like do a test drive you
have to be married peer so no sex before
getting married yeah so they’re firm
about that Oh 100% I’ve there’s a
specific type of a condom I have to use
or pretty organization they have a
prison camp that’s called the
rehabilitation project force if you have
sex with your girlfriend before you’re
married you’ll go to the rehabilitation
project force cuz I need help yeah you
need to be rehabilitated because your
your morals your moral compasses
out-of-tune and you could spend a year
to ten years on the ruler on the
rehabilitation project for I mean what
is that rehabilitation is it is it like
special exciting moment
rehabilitating nobody do hard labor like
construction or janitorial style kick
all day long every day feel like I’m
rehabilitating with another sexual
partner get it out of my there’s no and
there’s no relations while you’re on the
RPF period none know now you were
married 13 years though you you have
been married 26 years but at the time
when you were leaving you were worried
because you were worried about what’s
gonna happen with your marriage right
because yeah well I didn’t see my wife a
lot when I was there she worked in she
worked actually for David Miscavige she
worked in the religious technologies Wow
and I worked in the production
organization so we did video and Phil
you guys are still married we’re still
married wait three children did your mom
also leave the church no I have not
spoken to my my mom is disconnected from
me I’m not allowed to speak to her she’s
alive yeah and my sister and my brother
I mean they’re so part of it I’ve not
spoken to them since 2000 what do they
think of you they think I’m a
suppressive person my mom told her
family who’s not in Scientology she said
that if she spoke to me it would risk
the future eternity for all mankind she
told her family that who aren’t in
Scientology if that she spoke to me it
would risk the favorite for comical some
of this stuff it is her saying like she
believes that she believes that if she
speaks to me that all future mankind’s
eternity is at risk what do you believe
in now I’m sort of like a karma guy like
do good things good things I don’t
believe in God I’m curious because this
experience what has it done to your
spiritual life it’s made me very cynical
in terms of those angle so that’s why I
say I I do I do have this idea that
there is something greater than right
and and there’s a some sort of force
whether it’s I don’t say that I’m
religious I say I’m spiritual don’t
believe there’s a creator you think
there is a God I think there’s somebody
else somebody or something but I’m not I
don’t believe in organized religion so
Buddhism may be good for you yeah sure
I’ve studied all sorts of things yes I
left but it like I said I’m a bit I’m a
bit skeptical and I’m a bit sort of like
I do a double-take or a second guess a
second look because I think hmm I kind
of did that have you ever send your mom
like a Bible just say mom I want you
read this Bible it may change your life
no we saw her at a Funeral
a few years ago and she saw you yeah and
that’s when she said this to the family
was after that because she talked to my
boys I have three boys that she’d never
met I have five 10 and 12 year old so
what is your 12 year old think about
this whole thing like did they give it a
hard time when you go to school or not
really I don’t know no one knows that no
one knows what’s going on maybe in high
school that maybe they’ll have ticks but
even then you know no one would care I’m
a rock star I’m not evening heaven
so what other rituals do they have what
other things is in Scientology that may
be comparable to other things you now
you said promiscuity they don’t believe
in that what that’s across the board
would religion Coburn Hubbard wrote a
book called the way to happiness it’s
practically like the rewrite of the Ten
Commandments don’t murder don’t steal so
same the teller to sleep with your
neighbor your wife’s neighbor you know
all this kind of stuff they do Sunday
services they do marriages but it’s all
it’s all under the guise of where
religion so they basically took the easy
stuff that they could do yeah they would
make them like other religions and said
let’s do all that stuff let’s make a
chapel I saw a model I was reading
somewhere where it was almost like he
was following a system of being a martyr
when he was married three times and he
says everybody my family pretty much you
know went against me because they wanted
him to move and he didn’t want to move
California and his daughters said no
that’s not actually the case it’s a
different story because my mom didn’t
want to go through it anymore and then
his first son l ron hubbard jr who
changed his name to wolf or i don’t know
what his name their wolf yeah what
happened there what happened with his
family because a lot of times you’ll
hear you know leaders go through what
they go through and then there’s a
falling out like when Billy Graham had a
falling out with his son Franklin Graham
everyone’s like oh my gosh if his own
son doesn’t want to follow him maybe
Billy Graham is somebody that’s it’s a
Ronald Reagan’s oldest son Ron Reagan
you know his biological son is against
him he’s a liberal what is up with
Ronald Reagan right so yeah what what do
you know how did you ever meet his sound
like what do you know about whole story
of his kids against l ron Hubbard I’ve
never met his kids I’m very good friends
with our Hubbard’s granddaughter and she
escaped
i’ts want to say like four or five years
ago from the exact same place that I
worked how long was she there she was
there since she was born
how long is that 30 years 34 out of 5
years got it and she is the daughter of
Diana Hubbard who is the only child of l
ron Hubbard that still is in the C
organization that still isn’t that she
still works there and she works at the
international headquarters and so her in
Diana her mom it’s like nothing there is
no relationship at all no because she
escaped Wow
so l ron Hubbard had other kids as well
and those kids have not spoken out he’s
had seven kids I think seven is the kids
he’s got yeah and I think the ones that
are still around well I don’t know about
the ones before like in Scientology
those other families and those other
wife’s they don’t exist like they’re not
they do no I didn’t even know about them
till I got out of Scientology got it
like I found out he was married two
times before God after I left
like what like in Scientology history
books they’re not in they rewrote his
history so as far as I know there’s
about three or four kids that are still
around doing stuff and I’m pretty sure
that Scientology has them sort of taped
up like they’re not gonna say anything
they’re not gonna say anything now so
how about I think it has to do with bank
money yeah yeah so how about is that
Jenna Miscavige that’s right so what has
some page has a very similar situation
besides he’s only been married once
Jenna is his niece Jenna is his niece
who is the daughter of his brother and
she worked at the in headquarters as
well and she also escaped and she wrote
a book and it doesn’t paint her uncle
very nicely and it also in that book it
basically talks about how he took
pleasure in separating her from her mom
and dad David did yeah David Miscavige
how he separated them pretty much every
chance he got and he took pleasure in it
that’s kind of the takeaway from that
book and she didn’t have that great of
an upbringing just in general
in that Scientology world but his wife
has been disappeared since I think 2007
and it’s there’s a lot of speculation on
where she is and that sort of thing
but up until then she was with him
everywhere and anywhere he went his wife
was by his side when I worked at the
property if he showed up in your area
nine times out of ten she’d be with him
and she was his assistant he’s chairman
of the board CEO be and she was CEO be
assistant and anytime he came to your
area or did an inspection she was with
him so for her to be not with him that’s
a little suspicious
his brother escaped from the church his
David’s David’s brother Ron Ron jr.
escaped from the church Ron was just on
Jill Rogan is that a zit on senior
that’s his dad well that’s right that’s
his dad that was your dad recently
escaped yeah and he doesn’t have
anything good to say about David his own
death his own dad and and I knew Ron
very well when I worked at the property
his dad
yeah because I was over the production
areas and he was a musician and he he
was like a score composer musician in
the golden era productions and and I
knew him very well and you it was kind
of weird to see Dave Muscovado up to an
area and to hear his dad say yes sir no
sir like his dad had a column sir yeah
so he I’m telling you Dave miss Gavin
has the the properties about 500 acres
and I’d say david miscavige
ego just barely fits there I mean we see
like what’s his personality like because
there’s not a lot of stuff to read up on
this guy I’ve by the way I’ve been given
the video the introductory video when
somebody wants to introduce Scientology
to multiple times it’s a gamma D you put
it in you want it it’s a video helps him
speak in his hands are like this
celebrity sign yeah The Celebrity Centre
stops in a by the way you know I’ve seen
that multiple times
you know I’ve listened to the story to
pitch the presentation but like you said
Kapil the last time the interview was
done 24 years ago there’s really not a
lot of stuff on him so is that is that
intentional yeah absolutely
so what’s the reason why it’s
intentional because he is a
that got it so if lengths I’ll give you
a good example when they did that
interview with Ted Koppel it won an Emmy
that show Ted Koppel got an Emmy David
Miscavige didn’t get an Emmy
they made an Emmy for him like they made
a replica Emmy he gave it to David
Miscavige because he’s really the one
that earned an Emmy
when he when David Miscavige went to a
party it was I think it was like Oprah
or it was like a Missy Elliott birthday
party I don’t know something John
Travolta was there Oprah
Bill Clinton was there when he came back
to the property somebody said sir sir is
it true that you met Bill Clinton David
Miscavige said no he met me that’s David
Miscavige he’s hardcore I mean from the
15 years that I worked there he was
pretty much I’d say 99% in time he was a
a prick and every once in a while like
on rare occasions when you’d be with him
he’d just be a he was pretty hardcore
we’d be in meanings and he would punch
people in the meeting like while they’re
sitting can you say and that’s hard to
believe though no no telling you dude
I’ve seen it so many times that we would
get called and that’s the other thing
dude loves to have meetings so we’re
having meetings all the time so like
you’re in the production area like I was
over a lot of people and you’re trying
to get work done you can’t be sitting in
meetings five six seven hour meetings
oh yeah we got all the time in the world
folks always going anywhere 120 hours a
week you’re working you could do a
10-hour meeting that’s a squeeze that in
no problem it was a time period in the
early 2000s when you would go to a
meeting and there’s gonna be one beat
down for sure there could be multiple
beat downs in a meeting in a single
meeting and and because I was I was a
over a bunch of different production
areas so sometimes I have to go to like
three or four meetings in a row so I
would be at one meeting and you really I
mean in my
book I compare it it’s called blown for
good behind the Iron Curtain of
Scientology because when I got out does
the only thing I could find that was
like that where oh no it’s all wonderful
everything’s wonderful here and there’s
propaganda and there’s a whole
organization made to shoot propaganda
films and but when you’re there you’re
fearing for your life you’re thinking
today could be my number it could be
today I could get a beatdown you don’t
want you know no one got killed but if
you go to a meeting you should fear for
your life
you’re not no fear for my safety I’ll
fish safety they’re not allowed to hit
back okay like it’s one thing if you
want to go toe to toe at me and I got a
fighting chance like I’m uh I’m up
pretty I’m pretty stocky I can use my
weight okay but if I can’t hit you back
what am I going to do it reminds me of
the interview with Michael Franzese when
he said you cannot hit hit a made man
right you cannot hit a made man it’s
similar fundamentals of the Italian
mafia you can’t raise an on amazing
that was why I pretty much knew when
that one time when he punched me and
then I was like you know like and he
said did you see that that guy was
hitting me back I I thought at that
point game over no three the Pope of
Scientology I think it was I want to say
it was 2003 2004 so you’re already on
your what you otology just gave me a
beatdown
and I if left to my own devices would
have fought back I don’t know how much
of a future I’ve got me here at this
point because now he knows that I’m a
I’m unstable I’m an unknown commodity so
to speak but but either way he had an
assistant it was when his wife was there
but ah yes and had another assistant was
called his communicator and she had
band-aids in a little fanny pack for
people that would get plenty from him
get given beatdowns
so like somebody would get punched and
then there would be and this is a thing
now here here’s the craziness you’re
sitting in a meeting a conference room
table with people around it and people
are getting choked and punched and
shoved up against walls and then they’re
getting a little cut and you and they’re
not getting out of their seats there
sitting there there’s more meeting to go
and then it’s like hey and then it’s
like it’s not oh no he’s not even saying
get that person beating he’s just like
hey and the assistants like yes sir gets
a bandit gives it to the person that
person is putting or someone’s helping
them put a bandaid on you cannot that’s
the thing you cannot make this up
okay that this is from multiple people
there’s Jefferson Hawkins as a person
who was at the International base he’s
the one who created those Dianetics
volcano commercials that’s the guy who
made those he wrote a book called
counterfeit dreams there’s another girl
that was in international management her
name is Amy Scobie she wrote a book
called abuse at the top
Ron Miscavige wrote a book my book is
out there there’s people that worked at
that place and and if you read my book
and then you read Amy’s book and you
read Jeff’s book you’d be like okay it
exact same story different perspective
different person different areas they
worked in but the over writing message
is that David Miscavige micromanages the
hell out of Scientology and that he’s
abusive he’s got a temper a huge temper
he’s got a giant ego and when you’re at
that property you don’t mess with him if
he says jump you say how high is there a
replacement coming up anytime soon he’ll
be no for a while all the people that
are under him he has beat them or told
all their deepest darkest secrets to
each other like when I was there they
created this thing called the hole and
it was the International Management
Building is to double-wide trailers and
all of the executives in Scientology are
locked in those two trailers they’re not
allowed to leave they sleep there
they eat there they do everything there
once a day they’re marched down to a
facility that has some showers and they
can take a shower and then they’re
marched right back up there and all they
did all day long was have seances and
confessed crimes all day long he said
you guys are in here until you confess
all your crimes and no one leaves until
you do that I left in 2004 I talked to a
girl who left and I want to say 2010
they were still in there they were still
confessing their crimes so if you worked
in a group of 10 people and you were the
boss and all of these nine people under
you we’re all confessing their crimes to
each other all like the horriblest
things they did to just that destroyed
Scientology or screwed up a whole plan
or program here or there when you when
you leave who’s gonna take over that no
I know you screwed up that no you
screwed up this you see they’re they’re
all I think if David Miscavige got hit
by a bus tomorrow I think 90% of people
just gonna like I’m out
really oh yeah so so let me ask because
they know he’s gonna if they that’s the
other thing when you’re there you know
that if you leave they’re gonna they’re
gonna make your life miserable let me
ask you this and the only reason I left
because I knew I’d rather be dead than
to be this seriously you say that oh
absolutely I could I contemplated just
driving into a wall and just killing
mice you’re being serious
absolutely it suicide death would be a
better existence than living there if it
was when you were planning on leaving
did you and your wife have a
conversation about that if you say
anything to anyone even your wife even
your wife boom you’re done so when when
you left how much longer did your wife
leave a few weeks most people there
weren’t allowed on the internet I was
because I was over a research department
and I was over a bunch of protection
areas I was setting up internet stations
so I was allowed to get on the internet
his old five so old five Facebook
network Oh for yeah this is a no 304 I
was on the Internet I had a hotmail
account that nobody knew about you use
on the outside but I you know as Hillary
Clinton stuff he used on the side anyway
my wife knew that I had that email
account but no one else knew that when I
left she called her sister who wasn’t at
that headquarter so it was just a her
sister had lived in Los Angeles and she
said hey can you email Mark something I
got a new phone cuz after I left they
gave her a different phone so I couldn’t
call her they said she said can you call
give mark email mark and give him this
new number my phone got switched tonight
he’s on a project I just want him to
know
my new number and so then over a few
weeks we orchestrated how we could get
her out how you can get her yeah and and
when I escaped I drove off on a
motorcycle
did anybody chase you absolutely they
ran me off the road in the security I
saw you cover of the book blown for good
show that no chasing new cars behind ya
right after that picture they drove me
off the road and when they drove me off
the road in the security SUV somebody
called 911 and that person saved my life
because if that if the cops wouldn’t
have shown up I would have gone right
back are you still in contact with that
person that saved your life
no I never knew who it was it was an
anonymous caller called 9-1-1 got it
but the police by the time because the
scientology guys they have a scanner so
soon as they heard that the police were
coming to sort this out they they left
and the cops pulled me over they said
what the hell they knew what the hell
before they got there as soon as they
saw where my address was they said oh he
lives at the property and they called
that cop called for backup and they
escorted me into the town away from the
property because that the town is about
15 minutes from where it’s in the middle
of the desert the compound so if you
escaped on foot nine times out of ten
they catch you they just get you and
bring you back would it mean to catch
you it like who’s chasing you down they
have a drill when someone leaves it’s
called a blow blow
okay so someone who’s left is referred
to as blown or so and so blue they have
a drill there at the property called the
blow drill so somebody escapes there’s
about 50 60 people that snap into action
they call hotels they run they go on the
internet they look up your credit card
account to see where your last charges
were here this will blow your mind
they’re people that work for Verizon
Sprint AT&T if you have a sister or a
brother or whatever that’s got a phone
account they will tap into their phone
account and see if you called them come
on
when I got my dossier a guy that escaped
from the Scientology compound
he had my dossier from the Office of
Special Affairs
they have all the phone calls I made for
months who I called how long and how
long the conversation was I’m telling
you you go like oh they’re just like
other religions really you think so okay
so what would you force you taking place
with Scientology if you know this much
that you know and you’re on Leah Remini
and you’re doing all the things that
you’re doing well here’s the efficacy
taking place I don’t think I don’t think
I can talk enough about it because if I
do this show with you and one person
gets saved from not getting into it or
one person whose daughter is dabbling
with it manages to get them out it
totally worth it 100% Crusader of
wanting to stop everybody and anybody
from getting involved I spent 15 years
in that hellhole if I can make it so
anybody doesn’t have to spend a day in
that then it’s worth it to me it’s worth
it but but yeah back to the blow drill
that these people are activated and they
will find you they found me when I left
they found my wife when my wife escaped
she got in a great a Greyhound bus in
Riverside and I told her to go a totally
different way so they would they
wouldn’t know where she was going I told
her to turn off her phone so they
wouldn’t be able to track the GPS when
she got to wherever it was the
misdirection when she got there she
didn’t know how to use a phone card
because we grew up in this bubble uh so
she went to go make a phone call and it
would only took phone cards I didn’t
take coins she didn’t know how to call
she didn’t know how to get a phone card
she didn’t even know how to call me
without a there’s no way to do it she
turned on her phone when she got to
Vegas they were waiting for her at the
bus station
when she got off the bus there was two
people from the international
headquarters standing there waiting for
her
were you there as well no no I was in
Kansas City so what happened was she got
there she sat down in the middle of the
bus station and this is all in my book
it’s actually pretty crazy she sat down
in the middle of the budget at bus
station and told them if they touched
her she would scream and so they watched
her sit in the bus station and when her
bus came they watched her get up and get
on the bus and go and while that was
happening they called me and I didn’t
know they how do they even have my
number
new number you have I had totally new
phone new everything they just call me
Shh
hey we got Claire we got your wife she’s
not coming and I’m literally losing my
mind on the other end because I thought
I had planned it out pretty good and
then about an hour later she called me
and she said now they didn’t get me I’m
on the bus I’m coming that’s an that’s a
light story on this season of the
aftermath there is an escape story that
is unbelievable it when you hear you got
to watch when you watch and you hear how
this girl escaped and this is a girl
that escaped I want to say like two
years ago
so Scientology you say this never
happened no one has to escape if
somebody wants they can just walk right
out the door no no this girl escaped in
the in most insane way that you could
possibly believe like that you would see
in a movie and there was another couple
that tried to escape and they were
intercepted that this girl knew and what
is Leah Remini the purpose of doing what
she’s doing right now what is what is
her outcome because you know she was on
Howard Stern oh yeah and on Howard Stern
she said look this works just leave me
alone if it works it works leave me
alone and then she turned into wanting
to step away
what is her reasoning to get to this
point like listen there are people that
leave the church and they just go about
their business but she’s in Hollywood
and she’s in Hollywood going against and
coming out with something like this and
wins an Emmy what was her motivation to
have the tipping point of saying screw
it I don’t care if I lose friends I
don’t care what happens I have to go out
and tell this story what happened to her
well I think she would best answer that
but from what I’ve been able to
ascertain she saw a glimpse of what
happened what happens behind the scenes
so she saw she was friends with Shelly
Miscavige she they would trade cards and
gifts and Christmas and all that stuff
they were basically like they were
friends as as friends as you could be
was shelling Miscavige and her being a
Scientology celebrity and when Shelly
was disappeared and just vanished
and suddenly birthday cards aren’t
getting answered and notes aren’t
getting answered she was writing when
Shelly Shelly was David Miscavige’s wife
and she was basically according to
people that were there she did some
stuff that Dave didn’t like and so he
was like you’re done
you’re out of here and he shipped her
off the place where she’s most likely at
or has most likely been at is a facility
called the Church of spiritual
technology which is a secret compound in
up in the mountains up at near Big Bear
and Lake Arrowhead at that property they
put all of Elrond Hubbard’s writings
they etch him into metal plates and they
put all of his recordings onto golden
records and they seal them in titanium
capsules and they dig vaults into sides
of mountains that are nuclear proof and
they store all these writings because
they believe when the whole place is
blown up and obliterated that it’s gonna
be like the rent is back there someone’s
gonna find she’s there you’d think and
she’s over there right that’s where she
is because it’s there’s only about maybe
10 or 15 people that work at that
facility how public was she like when
David was up was she public in the
videos and the talks and absolutely if
he was at an event she was standing
right and she’s no longer there at any
for how long since 2007 so you think
that may be one of the reasons why she
decided to come out and go again no no
she’s not against him she just screwed
something up and he got pissed in her no
no no not sure I’m talking about oh yeah
yeah so Leah Leah was at a wedding she
was at Tom Cruise’s wedding to Katie
Holmes and David Miscavige was the best
man in their wedding
we’re Shelley she wasn’t there
Scientology billed it as the wedding of
the century Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes
David Miscavige’s wife’s not not here
she didn’t come she didn’t get an invite
I don’t think so
and Leah was like and she asked where
Shelly that’s what happened she asked
where Shelly and then she got in trouble
and she had to go get interrogations and
this thing called sec checking which is
where you have to basically confess
whatever crimes you have against
Scientology and against David Miscavige
and as she got a little taste of what
happens in the real Scientology so most
of your grant cardones and your Bob dug
in these big millionaire guys that give
money to Scientology
not they don’t see any of this
and and I and I pretty sure that if they
did see it that might give them a reason
to go like whoa hold on a second but
when you’re a Scientologist you’re
trained to is as soon as somebody starts
talking bad about Scientology yeah
that’s it you cut that’s it you block it
you just go no I’m not hearing it like
you you shut it off you cannot hear
anything bad about Scientology
and that’s really how they continue on
is this policy of disconnection that
disconnection is the control mechanism
that they use to keep people in
Scientology because if if every X
there’s more X I intelligence than there
are current Scientologists of course if
it’s a hundred thousand twenty eighty
thousand or a part of it yeah so if they
heard what those people had to say about
what happened to them
yeah then most people would be like I
don’t think so I’m out here so let me
ask you this other question so you
you’ve had dealings with I’m assuming
you’ve had dealings with probably
Cardona and Cruz you’ve had some
dealings with some of these guys yeah
what was your dealing like with Tom
Cruise when I was at the international
headquarters he needed to audit somebody
yeah and most of the people there have
been in Scientology for a long time and
had done Scientology courses and
counseling outside of before they got
into the Sea Org well I got a Nasir when
I was 16 so I didn’t do anything I
haven’t even read Dianetics to this day
and so he needed somebody to basically
be like a guinea pig for him to practice
on and Tom yeah and I was that person so
he did all sorts of Scientology
processing how was Tom like when you
dealt with Tom he’s a great guy he’s a
little like over the top like he’s
always the double handshake guy he’s the
do you need anything do you need a water
genie to this do you needed that you
needed that you sure everything good
you’re that’s Tom he’s and that was then
so a cool guy that was in the early 90s
yeah okay and he was kind of a newbie in
Scientology at that time he had said
that he’d been in a for a while though
well he wasn’t doing anything right he
was just a Scientologist he wasn’t doing
anything when you’re at the
international headquarters and you’re
doing courses now you can call yourself
a Scientologist God he was with Nicole
Kidman at that time and I don’t even
think they were married at that time and
she was at the property too she was
doing courses and
same room with him where the where he
was doing the counseling with me she was
right there doing courses she was doing
the PT s SP course which is where you
learn about potential trouble source and
suppressive people so she was stuff she
was doing that course right yes would be
she was doing that course ten feet from
where we were doing the counseling and
so was Kirstie Alley that Kirstie Alley
there as a prop because you can’t set up
like a little super super exclusive
course room for Scientology celebrities
and then be the only two celebrities so
they threw Kirsten there as a prop and
she’s doing something that was totally
100% useless anyway but they weren’t
even married yet and at the time he was
shooting I think he just finished
shooting Days of Thunder he had like the
long long mission kind of because it’s
not a good me I wash out 50 times in the
army when I was there I’m a I’m I think
I was like I was like 17 18 so to you
it’s like it’s Tom Cruise come on yeah
what are you gonna do yeah I thought
this guy and that and and that’s what I
remember
holy that’s I’m gonna get to hang out
with Tom Cruise for a few months anyway
fast-forward to the next time I saw him
was in 2004 fourteen years later
yeah he never he came to the property
and he arrived in a helicopter he was
whisked in he did whatever he did and he
left I think he did a lot of research
for films and Mission Impossible films
and stuff like that he did at the
property and he there was a huge library
we had in the castle where we did all
the film shooting and he basically had
free run of the whole place anyway he
was at the property and getting toured
around we had just built a ton of stuff
editing a post-production Bay’s online
Bay’s edit all these avid edit Bay’s all
this cool stuff and he was getting a
tour and I was in one of the areas when
he was walking through and he was like
mark and I was like ah and so even then
he was chilled with you he was he was
chilled but at that time he was a
totally different dude oh really
oh yeah he was like he was hardcore
anyone who deep with David yeah and at
the time Dave would tell us I just told
Tom that I beat the out of all you
guys and he said if if if I needed he’ll
come over here
can beat the out of you guys and he
was basically so at that point Tom knew
what was going on dave was telling Tom
what he was doing
is that a conspiracy when David told Tom
that you got to leave nicole kidman like
that whole thing is that is that just a
story you know this married okay so you
don’t know enough to comment on that one
it will tell you what we knew at the
property right fact fiction I don’t know
because it’s it was all what we were
told it was kind of like if Dave
Miscavige says that Nicole Kidman is
sleeping with you and McGregor and she’s
pregnant
even though tom is sterile then she’s an
SP that’s what we were told so it was
that was the rumor that was going around
the base was that Tom and Nicole both
had assistants and both of those
assistants were Scientologists and both
of those assistants reported up to the
church on every move they made through
that information it was ascertained that
Nicole had cheated on Tom because she
was pregnant and as far as everyone knew
including Tom he was unable to have kids
so that she was pregnant and that she
was sleeping around so that’s what we
were told I don’t I wasn’t there was an
in the bedroom I have no idea what
happened but marty rathbun who had since
left did many interviews where he said
that he was tasked with getting tom back
in to the fold that was one of the
things that they used to basically get
him back in was that so may have never
happened it may have been a conspiracy
because maybe instead of having kids
afterwards right okay but either way
sure when he divorced her he was back in
hardcore and that was and I think that
was in the early 2000s or late 90s so I
read about the fact that l ron Hubbard
in the 70s he just kind of said I’m
gonna go live on a ship for it he pretty
much lived on a ship for like a decade
or something like that in the seventies
with some friends and it would come and
they’d go and a lot of his philosophies
got clear on this ship apparently that’s
where the Sea Org was started in 1965
right
he was being basically hunted by
different governments
and he had to find a place to go where
they couldn’t get him and that ended up
being in the ocean is this also document
above absolutely because I know there
was a lot of countries he couldn’t even
go park you know he couldn’t even go
they couldn’t even doctor doctor doctor
the the ship so this is actual factual
incident I’m pretty sure there was six
countries that he couldn’t go to gonna
say there’s a certain thing where I
think in certain countries his passport
was not valid there like he could not
travel to that country and then after
that is when he decided to come back and
he calls it the Sea Org
and that’s so that a lot of the
inspiration came from that ship yes
that’s where he wrote a lot of the
counseling procedures and a lot of the
courses were all written in that 1960s
very early seventies period was when a
lot of these things were tested on
people right and then codified and then
he would write it and then they would
send that out to different Scientology
organizations in the 70s the C
organization moved to land and when they
moved to land they started they they
eventually ended up in Clearwater and
the Clearwater that giant facility in
Clearwater is called the flag land base
because the flag ship is the ship that
controls all the other ships so when he
landed in Clearwater that that’s where
flag ended up and now we’re on land it’s
called the flag land base and to this
day it’s called the flag line same thing
yeah that’s what I’m saying
when l ron Hubbard says it’s the flag
land base as is the flag land right so
it’s never gonna change to anything else
because he’s not writing any new stuff I
thought it was interesting that he went
away and he did a lot of his writing to
put the system together play it’s almost
as if he put the PlayBook together on
how to grow to church but by the way
what were some of the bigger names in
the 70s that were part of it was there
any celebrities in the center you got
like Stanley Clark who was a famous jazz
musician right Korea there was a
guy when I went to a Scientology school
in Los Angeles there was this guy Brody
he was like a football player
John Brody I think was his name John
Travolta was a big seven
these 80s also John Travolta goes back
to the 70s 80s oh yeah it’s okay got it
got it
so so the Ted Koppel interview there was
some controversy within the Scientology
Church because apparently when you go to
a certain level that’s when the name
Xenu comes up yeah and ot a note ii/3 I
think is where they first talked about
Xenu who’s this intergalactic Overlord
right and you learn about these little
aliens that are attached to you you have
thousands and thousands of these little
aliens attached to you I have aliens
attached everybody does especially you
and anyway so they have middle lisa i
rainey at you from iran but for my
Iranian alien so catch to you and and
you have to do these OT levels and
that’s where you you basically kick them
out you evict them one by one and it
takes forever because there’s so many of
them and it could take you ten years to
evict all these guys well
Xenu is the guy who made all those those
aliens he took satan’s were beings from
other planets and he dumped them in some
volcanoes on earth and that’s how he
created all these aliens that attached
to bodies okay when they did the Ted
Koppel interview they showed that whole
story of Xenu because this is written
there’s l ron Hubbard lectures you can
listen to on the internet where he tells
the entire story it’s not made-up this
is what they believe there was a South
Park episode that detailed this entire
what Scientologists believed and they
told the whole Xenu story on that
episode are you ready to hear the truth
I guess the genius of South Park right
and I watched the episode when I first
left okay so when you’re in Scientology
they believe that if you hear about this
story of Zeno of Xenu before you get to
that level then you will die of
pneumonia because that’s the way that
trap has been built is that if you gain
this information before you’re ready to
receive it then you will basically
self-destruct okay so in Scientology it
is
it is a suppressive act so if you’ve
done ot three you’re not allowed to tell
anyone about zina
even if somebody’s already done et three
you still can’t even tell them about
Xena you can’t tell anybody about Xenu
period and because of this thing you’re
gonna kill them
so in the Ted Koppel interview on
Nightline they told the whole Z news
story he bit or de-did-did
no they did a whole piece on it like
they had had a prepared it yes it could
got it and so they didn’t tell Dave they
were gonna do it either they totally
totally surprised it was like Hello
gotcha what about this and and then Dave
they said what about that and then
Dave’s says some spin like oh that’s
some random lecture that l ron Hubbard
get no that’s like that’s like the big
big that’s like an origin story in
Scientology like this is a big belief
precept of Scientology is this thing
about the aliens and you learn as you go
there’s all sorts of other things you
learn basically when I was talking about
the bait-and-switch earlier this is
another one of these baton switches
because one ot three you find about all
these aliens and then on ot seven you
have to get rid of all the aliens and
then on ot eight you find out you
created the aliens they were never there
you created them
I created you you created the aliens is
this like a sure of God that’s where you
learn you’re on ot eight your God and
you created the aliens as a game or as a
task for yourself to be able to get rid
of them and anything that you did that
was aberrated came from the aliens so
when you cheated on your wife that was
one of the aliens that made you cheat on
your wife I mean this would make half
the men in the world happy right could
live in alien I’ve got aliens that’s
what that’s why that’s why I’m again we
don’t have demons I have aliens the
aliens want to go to Vegas I want to
stay here with you honey Wow
so Xena was a big contra de lot about
the that interview with Ted Koppel
create a lot of controversy that from
there on it was kind of like you know
let’s not even start addressing it
because it’s better off we no longer do
interview that’s why I asked you earlier
why hasn’t he been on TV more than now
yeah
now he’s he’s at the property when I
left in 2005 he was paranoid that he
thought people there were trying to
poison him
poison him yeah so so let me let me take
it on a different side so you think the
church is gonna collapse once David is
no longer involved that’s what you
think’s gonna happen unless enough
people speak out like I’m one person
there’s hundreds maybe even thousands of
people that have similar stories to mine
if those people would speak out as well
then it would probably speed it up and
it might even collapse before David
Miscavige gets hit by a bus or whatever
happens to him you you think one of the
reasons why some people have such a
strong emotional connection to the
Scientology Church is because like I can
tell you from personal experience with
friends I had an office of mine Granada
Hills right we weren’t in Granada Hills
and we probably work with 50 hundred
Scientologists in our office and a one
thing I can tell you my experiences with
them if I tell you it’s 90% positive
it’s probably an understatement I had a
great experience working this guy’s
those guys are not exposed to any of the
things you know I mean I could tell you
they worked they were workers yeah
they’d be out there running gun and
running a palm didn’t have problem
driving six hours to an appointment and
now you nothing they were workers
hardcore workers and I remember how many
friends that I you know I had a couple
friends that were going through trying
to overcome heroin and-and-and ecstasy
and an addiction to Vicodin vicodin was
the hardest one out of all of it even
harder than heroin and hey why don’t you
try
Scientology’s methods called narc Conan
or something Larkin on ya and send them
there because the system that l ron
hubbard came out himself with from his
own research that he did this helps
people you know overcome a drug
addiction and and the amount of
testimonies I heard a lot of positive
testimonies you know that I I mean
obviously there’s three people that died
that they went through because I’ve read
that as well I’m yeah I’m gonna get both
but you know if a hundred people get off
drugs and three end up dying
FDA wouldn’t approve that drug I don’t
think no it wouldn’t it wouldn’t but did
you yourself while you were there or
even after you left did you also see
yourself positive experiences on the way
they handled people that got off drugs
and then they stayed off of drugs
because when somebody’s on drugs its I’m
with Robert Shapiro Robert Shapiro was
the dream team Oh J Simpson’s attorney
yeah and he lost his son Brent Shapiro
he started foundation called Brent
Shapiro and he said there’s this notion
that people who are on drugs they’re in
control he says they will lie to and say
anything to you to convince you that
they’re okay and they’re not because
psychologically they’re gone right so
here’s a person that’s hostage with the
drugs and they don’t know how to stop
their addiction and I find a church
called Scientology that helps me get off
of something that I’ve had no control
over
no organization has been able to fix
this no government organized a nothing’s
mean I would fix it I’m off of it I’m
gonna give my life to this do you think
there’s a part of it where my loyalty is
to it because you were able to help me
get off drugs you think there’s some of
that going on I’d say that there are
probably some people out there like I
know Kirstie Alley for instance was a
drug addict and she got off drugs
through the Narconon program that’s how
she’s such a dedicated Scientologist I
think I happen to know because I worked
before I worked at the international
headquarters I worked at the parent
organization that was over Narconon and
I happen to know 100% that the entire
Narconon drug rehabilitation program is
just Scientology courses there’s there’s
nothing there was nothing developed for
Narconon meaning meaning there’s a
there’s a thing in Scientology called
the purification rundown before you’re
allowed to do anything in Scientology
whether you’ve done drugs whether you’re
an addict whether you got some novocaine
from the dentist doesn’t matter every
single person that goes into Scientology
the first thing they have to do is
called the purification rundown and it’s
you sit in a sauna five hours a day and
you take a whole bunch of vitamins and
you sweat out all the drugs supposedly
that’s how it works that’s what L ron
Hubbard said that’s exactly what
Narconon is it’s that with all the
Scientology taken out of it
they do the exact same thing
wasn’t like we said oh let’s develop and
research a program that gets people off
was it effective though was it no it’s
totally not effective so you’re saying
it’s not even effect know you can read
testimonies from people that worked at
Narconon they the people that work at
Narconon a lot of times they recruit
them to work at Narconon after they do
the program they say hey you know what
we got you off drugs why don’t you stay
here and help more people get off drugs
most people are like well that’s great
cuz I’m not gonna be able to get a job
pretty much anywhere outside of here and
then they start working there and then
they start trading drugs for sex with
the students students are dying
students are OD’ing when their money
runs out the insurance runs out they
just dump them on the corner and they
say you’re out you go there’s no more
money your parents aren’t paying you’re
done you’re out of here so for whatever
good that Narconon does the bad I assure
you far outweighs it you believe that Oh
100% I know they have a Narconon they
say in Scientology they say they have a
76% success rate that’s what they say
they claim that 100% in publications in
in their website in pamphlets they say
we have a seventy-six percent success
rate if you go to any drug rehab program
in the world they’re gonna say
impossible that is 100% impossible
there’s no way they can that’s possible
the the best most effective drug
rehabilitation programs usually have
like a twenty to thirty percent success
rate maximum it’s like the ones that are
scientifically they’ve studied people
that have left this seventy six percent
success rate is just like Scientology’s
enrollment figures or their member
figures if you have Scientology how many
members do you have they say 15 million
seventeen million 20 million ten million
there was a time and you there’s there’s
videos on the internet where public
relations people that work for
Scientology will tell you that over the
years they would say hey we have five
million members and then they do a
newspaper article a year later and
someone say how many members yeah they
say what did we say last time I say we
said five million okay we have six and a
half million members
and over the years they kept the figure
going they don’t know I was working at
the international headquarters we were
tracking all that stuff they don’t have
those people when you say 20,000 members
you said then number 20 to 30,000
members is that how are you measuring
the twenty to thirty thousand how many
are paying today that’s right that’s
people that are your men coming
Scientology services and that are active
in Scientology if got its way
Scientology countess’s if I once took a
class and I attended that total is about
five five million that that’s right
that’s still a big number so five
million people have taken their courses
well or watched a film like they’ll do
they’ll do a thing on Hollywood
Boulevard in Los Angeles where they pass
out movie tickets they say hey you want
to watch a free film right down the
street from an Chinese and you walk in
there and you watch your film you’re on
that list you have one of those members
you watched a 30-minute film you
remember I’d be curious on how they
measure that number so last but not
least this last question here to wrap up
before we finish off with the book so
what do you do now so you’ve been part
of the church you know you were there
you work you know you did your part your
left you know you were telling me
earlier you were trying to buy a car you
had zero credit nothing on your name
nothing going on and so and you bought
this car from Gallup and Ford which is a
place I bought three cars off of Rosco
yeah you know a guy named Jaime Adina
sold me the car and right off the 405
right off the 405 I had a friend I was
dating at that time but you know sure I
know that Rosco and base at the area
very well so going back to it what do
you do now I mean I know you run
businesses as well you’ve done millions
of dollars and revenues as well so tell
me about your business life today when I
left in 2005 I had nothing my wife also
as well no high school diploma no we
didn’t do college we didn’t nothing we I
worked in the film industry in Hollywood
for a little bit yep doing a
post-production visual effects stuff and
then in 2007 I created an audio-visual
systems integration company and that
company is going strong to this day and
we do we basically design and install
audio-visual systems for museums so the
niche yeah we’ve worked on around the
world or is it mainly in the States
we’ve done a lot of work in the state
so far we have do have some projects
coming up in other countries but we’ve
done three presidential libraries we do
a lot of music libraries we do museums
all over the United States and then I
also have another company that my wife
runs which is a bookkeeping company so
she has basically staff all over the
United States and they do remote
bookkeeping so this was when I was doing
a lot of computer systems and we could
remote in I thought oh we should have a
thing we could do remote bookkeeping so
you don’t have to have a you do millions
per year it depends on the year but we
we my wife and I we have a competition
you’ve done well for you were so
financially we have done well when I
left Scientology in the first three
months that I was gone yeah I made more
in those first three months and I made
in 15 years and that’s when I realized I
can make a lot more here’s a crazy
question for you crazy question for you
how much of your current work ethic is
stemmed from your years with Scientology
well I was working 120 hours that’s what
I’m saying so I’m built I’m built for
stamina so do you see why I’m asking
that question because I lived in Iran
and yeah when I lived in Iran you know I
would say you know oh my gosh we grew a
bomb we were this we I was so paranoid
because anything could die and then I
went to military we’re working a hundred
hours a week in a military this is crazy
we’re making no money but then that’s
made me a couple hundred million dollars
right so but you also you right now your
life is a paradise Oh heaven on earth
that’s right that’s how mine is right I
if I work like when I first left at six
o’clock in the afternoon I was like but
what am I gonna do I got I’m gonna know
I’m I’m ready to go until midnight
I was working till 1:00 or 8 min I don’t
wanna get that are fellas craziness when
didn’t work I didn’t learn it I was I
was like a I was a slave I get it so
fully programmed to work so and also
there’s a policy that they have there
which is if you have a problem solve it
like you can’t say to your senior I have
a problem what other principles you
learned that helped your new career
because I’m telling you the stuff that
they would tell me the assists the audit
yeah this that that that’s all
and I have an eye from being there I
discount any of the technology I
discount okay I don’t think I learned
anything from them I think the lessons I
learned from being there or what I
learned like I put up with so much a
David Miscavige’s that when I
was working and I didn’t have my own
company there wasn’t a boss that I
worked for that I was like you know come
on this is the like like my boss came to
me when I first left my boss said hey
would you mind staying till 8:00 tonight
I’m thinking to myself you know it’s
like five o’clock okay like I get state
oh hey did you say he’s gonna punch me
in the face that okay you’re thinking
about but but that’s the thing I was
like if you ask a regular person can you
stay till 8:00 that’s a big ask
yeah we get it here all the time yeah I
mean that’s crisis but even one time
they said in order to make a deadline we
had to get a show edited and to the
channel and it had to air and we had to
get all these effects cut into the show
and it was there’s no way to get it done
unless we pulled an all-nighter and I
was the only one who could get all the
stuff together and get it and I pulled
an all-nighter and I was like it was
like do you fire the most awesome guy
ever in the world because you stayed all
night and I’m like dude I was pulling an
all-nighter maybe once or twice a week
for the last 15 years
you crazy question you think if you
didn’t have that experience there you’d
be making the kind of money you’re
making today I don’t think so okay
you’re kind of interesting I appreciate
the answer well yeah but because also
the obstacles that we had when I was
there was and and for a lot of the time
that I worked there I dabbled in
audio-visual systems even though it
wasn’t my assigned you were making
that’s right I was yes I was yes
saying oh we should use this we should
use that and then right before I left
that was my actual official post
interesting but so I had what now I
spend maybe a year or two planning and
designing and going through with
architects now I did that in a week yeah
and and it was always and it was always
messed up because we should have been
doing it a year or two when they were
planning the building not
well a week before we’re supposed to
install this right so everything was
always oh there’s no power here oh
there’s no conduit all these silly
things that would never have happened so
there’s a rule where it’s I think it’s
called a 10,000 hour rule mm-hmm I got
about 90,000 dollars okay so I’m good I
know so I know every wrong way from
being in Scientology yeah I know every
wrong way to do everything coordinate
systems everything I know the wrong way
to just made you millions believe me I
am NOT who I am if I didn’t go through
hell and back with my family and if I
didn’t go through hell and back living
in Iran living in the refugee camp
there’s no way in the world I am Who I
am today yeah no way some of the stories
I say people don’t even believe the
stuff that we went through yeah and so I
asked I asked that question because I
want to know how much of it reflected
off your success today and you were
transparent enough to say yes it did I
wouldn’t be the person I am today here’s
a question for you say David’s watching
this right now yeah okay he’s somewhere
in Clearwater you know one he’s got his
iPhone he’s in a bathroom he’s in his
office he’s in his bed he’s by himself
in his car somewhere parked no one knows
he’s watching this video he’s gonna
clear his history by the time he’s done
watching this yeah but he’s watching us
right now
okay and he’s seen the the show
Scientology the aftermath he’s seen some
of this and he’s gonna hear about it
24/7 because he’s the name he’s the face
right oh no they’ve created thousands
and thousands of websites about us sure
but here’s the question say he has a
moment and he says okay if there was
anything Scientology Church could do to
adjust and to positively continue its
course of what they want to do is there
anything the church could do and I know
you have a lot of a you know personal
experience that’s frustrated you is
there anything they could do to make the
church better from the internal side on
the external side based on what you’re
saying a lot of them have an experience
a lot of members haven’t seen it you
just kind of go to the courses this
course helped me I found another issue
I’ve overcome I’m getting better I feel
better I can’t believe who I’m becoming
one day I’m gonna be a great leader I
can create my own life my own you know
God all this other someone being ot8
great is there anything David who leads
the entire church could do
make Scientology an organization that’s
going to gain credibility and continue
growing anything and the abuse and hand
the disconnection policy
what’s the disconnection policy it’s
where they’re separating and destroying
families it’s not there their
excommunication policy so you’re saying
if they did those two things
Scientology would be a good organism
maybe they’re not a religion but they’d
be a good organization that they could
do good for society well no I think if
they ended those two policies then it
wouldn’t be they wouldn’t be hurting
people as much I think if they ended
those two policies and I also think that
it would self-destruct if they ended
those two policies and and so so
whatever you tell them they’re still
they’re not gonna be able to do because
if they do it around it self-destruct if
they didn’t disconnect people then
people would say what happened to them
and then those people get out of
Scientology and then it would be a fast
quick demise right now they’re they’re
they’re milking it for every second they
can get and trying to keep people that
are in there and ordering interrogations
and separating mothers and sons and
daughters and I mean when you hear these
but you watch this after you watch
Scientology the aftermath on A&E and
these stories if you can watch an
episode of not crying
then you get problems if those things
change is the content valuable enough
where it’s life-changing if those things
if let’s you say those two things change
is the content valuable enough where you
can last no it’s I’m telling you the l
ron Hubbard repurposed other stuff but a
lot of people say Tony Robbins that a
lot of people say a lot of authors today
that a lot of shooters say and they’ve
given their own you know because you
know everything’s written after the
Bible if you take the Bible a lot of the
principles come from problems well if
your prior to that you know if you go
back and look at a Sun Tzu and what he
wrote if you go back and study and
Confucius you know if you go so a lot it
that’s been said a lot of times yeah
every single religion and book and all
that you know you wrote a book you your
book copied this other book and this
financial copy this well in Scientology
you can’t do Scientology partway you
you’re either in it or you’re not and
they’re the first policy letter that you
read in Scientology is called keeping
Scientology working and in that policy
I’ll ron Hubbard says we’d rather have
you dead
than incapable so if you do the
relationship course it leads to Xenu if
you do the communications course it
leads to Xenu if you do the how to make
work easier course it leads to zina
there all those things are all gonna
lead to you spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars so you lured
yourself a space alien you are full for
the world is a better place without
Scientology absolutely okay so you’re
dead set on that okay very cool okay so
to wrap it up give us a you know a quick
plug for the book I know you give couple
of and then obviously more these stories
are gonna be probably in there so yeah
what am I going to pick up if I read the
book you’re gonna find out all there is
to know about the international
headquarters how the day-to-day workings
are the schedule what we did where we
ate you’re gonna find a whole bunch of
crazy stories about people that try to
escape and then we’re captured about how
I escaped with the help of the police
you’re gonna find out all kinds of
craziness about David Miscavige if you
know people that are in Scientology they
might even be in the book too because we
shot movies with people we did videos
films
audio recordings all kinds of craziness
that happened at the international
headquarters called golden era
productions and it was the propaganda
arm of Scientology so anything that was
made to make Scientology look good
that’s where we made it that’s what we
did it
and the books called blown for good
behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology
you can get it on Amazon you can go to
blown for good comm you can order a
direct from there I’ll even sign a copy
for you I thought it was interesting how
you self-publishing it and ended up
winning all these awards even there was
a self pub well that’s very interesting
on their level of interest well there it
is in heaven the reason I did that is
because a girl that wrote a book told me
that Scientology threatened to sue the
publisher and she actually had was at
the end base as well and she wrote a
book and they threatened to sue the
publisher and the publisher had already
paid her for the book and they never
published Wow
so I realized in order to get the book
published I had to start a publishing
company so if you listen to this whole
interview and this topic interests you
go buy his book we’re gonna leave the
link below you said it’s on Amazon
Kindle they can get it there and what I
want to hear
from use I actually want to hear from
you what was your take away if you’re
still watching this whole thing what was
your takeaway from the entire interview
you liked it you didn’t like it what’s
your opinions what are you thinking
comment below as well if you haven’t
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well mark thanks for coming up buddy thank you to me take everybody bye-bye