[Music]
if you want to be great at poker you
have to be able to read people you have
to look across the table and know
whether someone is weak did you see some
guys that you said that guy could be as
good as me if not better than me but he
doesn’t manage his finances his habits I
ended up playing Phil Ivey all night
long and I lost five hundred and thirty
six thousand dollars wins the
championship so you got four presidents
who would be the best poker player a lot
of people are fascinated by the game of
poker myself included and one of the
things about poker is you know when you
meet somebody that’s very good at it we
like the movie rounders because in that
movie Matt Damon goes against Johnny
Chan and he made him bluff and he had
nothing going on he threw his cards
we’re talking to the guy that at 24
years old
beats Johnny Chan in 1989 and he becomes
the champion and then from there he wins
15 bracelets by the way 15 bracelets his
first place number 2 is 10 I think it’s
Phil Ivey Doyle and he had Johnny Chen
left and he has 15 that’s 15 percent
fifty percent more than number two the
Michael Jordan’s got six this guy’s the
goat in his game and so we’re gonna get
into a lot of different topics today
with the game of poker some of it has to
do with business some of it has to do
with life some of it has to do with the
game so would that being said Phil
welcome to that retainment thanks
Patrick yes so Phil craziest guy you
played up against where you couldn’t
read him it was you know challenging
facing him who would it be their guy
named Elaine flack and when he was
really drunk he was so I always tell
people drunk lame flack because that guy
when he was drunk he was fearless it
seemed like he knew exactly what you had
when he was drunk and so drunk Layne
flack was always a challenge
Chuck some people play better when
they’re drunk so Phil let me ask you if
you decided to lock on to me and you
teach me how to play this game how good
could I get every great businessman I
believe can become great at poker really
you’re a great businessman Carl Icahn
I’m famous green male or he’s a hot
poker player a lot of the great ones in
as it translates it’s about managing
people around you which is trying to
read people it’s about managing your
assets
those are your chips it’s about
understanding when to go big and when
not to go big and so we find that if
you’re great at business you have a real
good chance to become fantastic poker
player obviously your business skills
eight-hundred proceed you call your
thinking about being a great businessmen
you have no fear you know what I mean
there’s what are you afraid of you used
to being successful your whole life
you’re playing against a bunch of people
that play poker for a living they’re
tough but you’ll discover that you have
some big edges you know what I mean you
as the businessmen or you as you as the
businessman got it yeah they’re
accustomed to the risk they’re
accustomed to starting all over and real
fear that’s the great thing about nice
and that’s the great thing about being a
businessman and entering our game a
great businessman you have no fear so
and and most businessmen are pretty
smart they’re not gonna sit down and
risk too much money they’re going to
feel comfortable and alliances are
formed where you can be with you know a
great poker player will will coach
somebody who’s a businessman and maybe
the businessmen stake some more pays
them for lessons or you know there’s a
nice quid pro quo between great
businessmen and great poker players I’ll
call I have a straight really yeah okay
said I got you yeah yep you got it now
if we were playing put in three thousand
two no you’re gonna get it of course you
gotta get it that was clean the
interesting thing about that and is if
we were playing for real money yeah I
think you might have folded there on the
end because you would have been like all
right you know I mean he probably has
maybe he’s probably not bluffing I would
have probably fold it I wanted to see
what you had exactly so there’s a
difference between because we’re not
playing for real money for me personally
since we’re filming I’m playing my best
game because it just comes natural
of lease oh I already folded but when
you’re not used to playing for free it’s
just easy to say all right I call I want
to see what you have Phil were you
always super competitive oh yeah always
since they won the reason I’m the poker
brat is because when I was young I
didn’t get good grades my brothers and
sisters all got straight A’s they all
played music instruments they were all
athletes and so I’m the oldest of five
what the heck did I have in my life
nothing right so my grades weren’t good
I had a TV I wasn’t a great athlete I
was good I didn’t play any musical
instruments so my parents showered
praise on the other four kids so what
did I have in my life I had to be the
best at all these games and so from an
early age I became the best and my mind
was always tuned towards I want to play
the games and I’m the oldest of five
mm-hmm
so I rarely lost a game and when I did
lose a game I’d be like oh my god I
can’t believe it you rolled double sixes
n double fives that’s the only way I
could lose and I’d storm out of there
like a poker brat meltdown because what
did I have in my life when I’m 14
nothing all I had was master of all
games Wow
and so from a very early age games were
the most important thing to me and I
don’t think that I was a lot of fun for
my brothers and sisters to play against
because I was just so intense and I
played so perfectly and it was hard for
them to beat me weird a intense like you
are now
personality-wise no I mean they’re just
there’s only one room for one guy to get
super intense they would try their
hardest but generally speaking I kind of
smashed everybody in my family games
wise so you know so that’s where the
poker brat meltdowns came from is when I
finally lost at a game to them then I
had absolutely nothing left so I’d be
like oh my god I played perfectly I
deserve this so you know you
fast-forward 30 years I’m still doing
the same stuff you know how did they see
you how does your family see you doing
when you see when you do it on
television my family you know sees a
familiar person on television but they
also know that you know my family loves
me my family I’m gonna bet eight my
family loves me they know they
they know that I’m a good guy you know I
help help them all pay for their college
law school everything all for yeah I
didn’t pay 100% of their way but I
helped all of them with their schooling
because if you’re gonna make all this
money in your 22 23 24 what are you
gonna do with it you know and so to me
the best thing I could do was to just
support my brothers and sisters in
education education has been important
to my family even though you know and
maybe that’s why I’m married to a doctor
you know education has been an important
thing but I chose a different route so
now what woody games you guys will play
oh you seem like monopoly clue is it is
it anything and everything not only clue
backgammon every game you can that you
were growing up you know we played hey
what do you got King high you beat me
Wow oh look give it you got to give me
some hey my sister Molly was a top 40
scientist in the world under 40 you know
my brother Dave has a law firm Hellmuth
in Johnson he has 50 attorneys working
for him I mean the success level for our
family’s kind of crazy my other sister
Keri finished her PhD she has her law
degree and she wrote in the joy of the
Italia you know she was a world-class
cyclist so we were all pretty who would
your parents to raise those kinds of
kids what did your mom and dad do well
my mom you know she had the saying in
our bathroom Marilyn who grow up you are
what you think you become what you think
what you think becomes reality and
that’s saying we saw every day so we
thought all right if we are what we
think and we become what we think and
what we think becomes reality then we
might as well think big yeah I know you
talked about that in the book so you
said you’d see it in the mirror you’d
see it everywhere and every day
seven people my parents five kids all
living on one floor was a big house we
all lived on one floor and we all use
the same bathroom this is Wisconsin and
there’s a saying you are what you think
you become what you think what you think
of is reality and after like nine months
this thing would be grungy you know and
and I’d look up the next day and and
there’d be a new one same sign and my
mom had that up for 10 years and I think
it was very influenced all of us to you
know to go for it eight or more five
more if I want to see it – not a big
deal Wow nicely played that’s a straight
dammit that was a very tricky you had
the best possible hand on the turn a
stranger I was trying to see what you
were gonna do you ran me yeah was
medicine against me damn it
and you raced enough where I had to call
on the river yeah I was gonna do 3,200
like you I’m like you know what I can’t
do that if you raise that much I just
fall yeah you played it perfect so it’s
1989 you are 24 years old you’re facing
Johnny Chan you’re at the last table I
mean you you are really wanting to come
out there make a statement you’ve been
coming to Vegas 10 times back and forth
every time you lost you won back
Wisconsin made your money came back your
loss 10 times now you’re facing this guy
this is the biggest tournament you win
it’s $755,000 we call that donkeys
donkeys where people you know people
make money they bring it to Vegas and
right before you became who you are
today
correct so you face this guy now
obviously a lot of people seen the movie
rounders and you know Matt Damon plays
the actor facing Johnny this is real
life he’s got I think in ace and seven
of spades you got pocket nines you’re
not expecting to raise it well the the
way it came down was like this first of
all I told everybody that I was going to
win
event we had back then we had answering
machines my answering machine was before
I left for Vegas I will be you’re
talking to the reigning world champion
of Poker this is before you won correct
so already in April before I left for
Vegas for the World Series I left a
message on machine you’re talking to the
reigning world champ yeah kind of like I
don’t know what you would call that
visualization sure thing or just putting
it out there yeah and I really felt like
I was gonna win it I was telling
everybody I was the best player in the
world I was 24 and Hold’em made sense to
me and I knew there weren’t if there
were one or two players better than me
in the world you could argue one or two
guys were better than me in the world
but I didn’t think anybody was at that
point and I was already starting to
crush No Limit Hold’em tournaments so
first I told everybody I was gonna win
it and then I told everybody that I
wasn’t gonna make a deal
now that’s gutsy 750,000 for first
300,000 for second that’s 450,000 in
1989 to a 24 year old see the only way
I’ll make a deal is somehow if I play
Johnny Chan heads up because he’d won it
in 87 and 88 and he was considered the
best player in the world and I knew Chan
was great but I’d been preparing for
this moment for a year how visualising I
was going to win it believing I was
going to win it telling everybody I was
gonna win it and it comes to pass we’re
heads up so four hands before the hand
you brought up I had a seven of diamonds
the blinds were five and 10,000 I made
it 35,000 thirty fives kind of a 3.5
we’d call that that’s a big raise and it
got to him he called the 35 and raced a
hundred and thirty thousand more and I’m
like what he so in other words there’s
like 70 out there he raised a hundred
and thirty more no one raises that
amount and I’m like man I don’t know
what’s going on here but he shifted and
I had whispered to him 20 minutes
earlier I’m gonna play perfect poker
you’re gonna have to get lucky to beat
me you tell him this I told him that and
and so exactly so I folded that one I’m
like all right I have to give him the
benefit of the doubt here I don’t want
four hands later I looked down at pocket
nines and it’s like this it was like the
future was lying in front of me I’m
gonna make it 35 he’s gonna raise a
hundred and thirty and I’m gonna go all
in
now ESPN was there filming a fledgling
little Network my dad is in the crowd
somewhere but I didn’t want him in my
sight for four days straight because I
figured I’d freak out or he’d freak out
and so the whole poker world is in the
stands watching and I’m all in and I’m
just like all right I just didn’t want
at that point I’m thinking don’t give
anything away this is your chance to win
the tournament or loose a turn but don’t
make any assumptions because I’d been in
spots where I’d made assumptions before
where you try to get somebody to fold
you try to get somebody to call and I
thought I’m not gonna do any of that I’m
just gonna sit back and wait you know
and I’m thinking to myself I don’t want
him to call with king/queen I don’t want
a coin flip for the main event where my
coin flip I mean if he is king queen and
I have nines I’m like 53% to win I don’t
want to be flipping a coin and after a
long long time he shrugs and puts in all
the money now there’s 1.2 million in the
pot at that point there had been no deal
made at that point if we just deal it
out and I thought I’d watched him hit
his cards over and over again now I know
I’m a to and after one favorite he is a
seven of spades I have two black nines
he’s gonna need to hit an ace mm-hmm but
I’d watched him hit that card he was
he’d won it in 87 he’d won it in 88 he’d
won two other big tournaments also he’s
the hottest player in the world but
every time he got his money and bad he
was hitting his card and I was like I
didn’t know anybody I’m at the Horseshoe
I’m like you know are you known at this
time were not yet I’m known in the poker
world okay
he’s known period you are known in your
world correct at that point we made a
small save one hundred and fifty
thousand two hundred thousand which is
horrible math on my part but it locked
me in to where i if I finished second I
was gonna get 450 and he was going to
get 650 and if I was gonna finish first
I was going to get 650 I was going to
give up a hundred to a hundred and fifty
thousand
so at least I was going to walk away
with 450 we’re outside talking and Jack
Binion comes running out he’s like
what’s going on here the press is
talking what are you guys doing and
Johnny said no big deal we’re making a
save and so we go back in and Jack’s
like okay whatever and Johnny said it
and I said are we on for the save and he
said yes I said we’re on for the save
then they dealt and so the flop comes
King King 10 good to flop for me but not
great now it needs a 10 or an ace the
turn is a queen now chanting yeah yeah
there’s three tens in the deck there’s
four jacks for them to make a straight
that’s seven there’s three Queens and
three aces
so he has 13 outs I have still have 31
outs I’m still two and a half to one
favorite but with one card to come to
decide my fate and the river was to six
of Spades and my hands go up like this
right away twice and there’s a camera
that catches it from above you can see
this on the internet I go like this
twice and immediately I turn around and
there’s they had like I’m their son
second on the table over a million in
cash this is 1989 so multiply that times
I don’t know 20 or whatever the heck it
is right and so there’s security
everywhere my dad’s running up the aisle
now you know and security stops I’m like
no no it’s my dad let him through Wow
and embrace my father had my father
there who was anti poker from day one
but it finally yielded and said all
right
you have a gift at this I can see one a
bunch of tournaments I’m gonna come and
support you to have him there to give
him a hug it’s all caught on camera was
the greatest moment of my life there I’m
winning the main event and then I bought
my dad a new Mercedes okay so he was
pretty happy about that
and then and then I met and married my
wife who’s a doctor
and so my dad who has a PhD who has a JD
who has an MBA and his into education
was pretty happy so loved my wife but
went to the University of Chicago so you
know all of a sudden all is forgiven I
can be a professional poker player
was there a sit-down with him just you
and your dad not not the winning part
I’m talking like a drive home you’re
staying at the hotel together you’re at
the house so I had told all my friends
that I was gonna win it and I told them
that I’m at 600 you need one car right
nine I told all my friends I’m gonna win
it and I’m gonna fly them all home on a
private jet but this is 1980 I didn’t
know what a private jet looked like you
know what I mean like I mean I’m a poker
player that’s never had a lot of money
but I told all my friends you know I
like to do things in style hang around
after I went to fly you home on a
private jet so for dinner that night we
went to the bacchanal at Caesar’s Palace
super and I spent 2,000 at dinner which
is a lot in 89 that’s the max I could
spend pretty much Dom Perignon
everything and my father post post post
we host yeah and my father’s like this
is awesome he’s like but you should save
the money for the jet and so I kind of
decided I would for an hour but
meanwhile they were looking into it the
Horseshoe Casino was looking into the
jet and I decided I have to I have to
fly home on the private jet but my dad
flew home commercial unfortunately but
everybody else was on the jet sweep
bought into the idea he bought in to do
the jet hey he was kind of saying I mean
come on you know my dad my dad his whole
life he grew up with some money but it
wasn’t like he was wealthy and so for
him the idea of spending $6,500 on a jet
you know he’s like don’t do it don’t do
it they’ll understand but of course I
did it and but unfortunately my dad
wasn’t on the jet he flew home earlier
that morning right took a red-eye home I
guess so the discussion my dad and I had
had already been settled by them and the
discussion was I want to be a freshman a
poker player
and he fought like hell against that
steel or be it did not work okay yes
before that and it took years of us
butting heads before he agreed to
actually go to the tournament but now
that he went to the tournament and he
saw me win the main event the World
Series of Poker Main
that there was never any question about
what I was gonna do for a living I’ve
bought him a new Mercedes and you know
and then I started you know but it’s not
straight up in my profession you’re
gonna have bad times so what I always
expend so obviously that’s a victory
what happens that what happens well then
you get cocky and you think you’re
better than you are and I started
playing in some high stakes cash games
that I wasn’t great at so I’d play seven
card stud for a lot of money I’d play
and so I started losing money the smart
thing that I did is I paid cash for a
penthouse condominium $200,000 I own my
cars outright and I paid my taxes early
I put away money to pay taxes but so
then when I lost like two or three
hundred thousand straight it basically
put me I was basically cash broke so I
was cash broke yes but I had a $200,000
condo that I could sell the next day I
had the cars and at that point I kind of
I’ve always been smart financially and
was able to kind of keep myself in a
position where you know I didn’t go and
borrow a bunch of money you know and so
I struggled and I played within my means
so my bankroll was suddenly this big
after being as big as this room my
bankroll was this big big pot coming
here I have a good hand three nines I
have a good hand man so how did you
emotion I was always conservative I was
always fiscally concerned is that
because of what father and mother taught
you is that just you you were you were
fiscally I just needed I knew that
people were gonna have up and downs
finance I mean I knew that there were
already stats out in the 80s talking
about the average millionaire had been
up to a million and broke ten times so
when I thought of myself as being
average you know why that is
most people are great at making money
but making it holding it are two
different skills that’s right and so I
knew this already and so I was very
conservative with my money I would go
and play very small stakes games and I
would drive for hours to play small
stakes games in Michigan for a couple of
years just to be able to pay my bills
that was smart you know not ball
but smart could I have gone and sold
everything or could I have gone and
barreled a couple hundred thousand
dollars in my house and started playing
big games of course I could but I wasn’t
gonna do that I was gonna maintain the
cash I had I was gonna maintain the net
worth I had until I figured it out
and so that was really smart but it
wasn’t easy it was a struggle for me ah
yes and living in a penthouse
condominium in Madison Wisconsin yes I’m
25 years old yes I have an amazing wife
an amazing cars but not a lot of money
but everything was paid for weird spot I
think did you see a lot of guys who were
because this is another part I mean I’ve
seen a lot of guys that were just as
talented and maybe even more talented
than I was coming up in business but
they were terrible with money so they
didn’t give themselves the life span to
be able to have the momentum catch up
because you know sometimes you get one
victory and you say maybe I can hang
with these guys but one doesn’t put you
into history books I know you’re a big
history books guy did you see some guys
that you said that could be as good as
me if not better than me but he doesn’t
manage his finances his habits properly
I don’t think this guy’s gonna last you
think that was an edge of yours that you
had maybe maybe I’m delusional but I
thought I was the best Hold’em player I
didn’t think anybody was in my category
as far as No Limit Hold’em tournaments
Phil do you believe that at 24 yeah well
I I proved it I mean I was winning more
no limit hold’em tournaments from the
time I was 23 at the time I was 2 today
I’ve had a bigger win percentage than
almost than anybody in history there’s a
few guys now that they talk about that
are great but there were a few guys 10
years ago and 20 years ago so when it
came to no limit hold him I thought I
was great but there were other games I
mean most of the most of the private
cash games were made up of lowball or 7
card stud those games I was not great at
and I was playing high stakes in those
games yes I saw talented people your
question is money management that’s the
part yes money management is number one
okay why is it number one because if you
can’t pay your bills you’re gonna be
miserable you can’t pay your bills
you’re gonna get phone calls you’re
gonna like I don’t know we’ve always
been able to kind of squeak
in the roughest times but I saw friends
they were getting phone calls because
they couldn’t pay their bills they’re
getting evicted all of this BS and all
they had to do when they had $100,000 in
cash is make sure that like 30 of it was
untouched and they didn’t have to worry
about bills for a year or two right but
they couldn’t do that instead they’d
fire it all at the table on a bad night
and so you have money management and you
have poker talent okay to me there are
two components of a pure mean you have
this pyramid money management’s more
important than poker Talent
because I can show you a player with
great money management that has 50% of
the skill level super comfortable life
they pay their bills on time they’re not
flashy they don’t win big tournaments
they just life is easy though you know
what I’m saying and then I can show you
a guy with extreme talent okay but no
money management skills and his life is
I have a million dollars in cash I’m a
ball or I’m out of the clubs or whatever
then somehow blow it all in like three
days for no reason right you’ve seen
this oh yeah and then they borrow money
so there’s this borrow system in poker
where you loan people money I never
engaged in the borrow system but very
easy for me to borrow money but I always
told myself if you start borrowing from
a hundred different people you’re gonna
have to loan those hundred different
people and you’re gonna figure it out
fill which means at the end of time
you’re gonna have a hundred people that
owe you money
mm-hmm because they’re just gonna all
crash and burn so let’s not engage in
this system let’s do it the hard way I
remember walking into a casino in 2004
poker was huge at the Commerce Casino I
walked into that room is this money
maker you know for his money maker right
is it money makers after a money maker
done I think but actually you might be
right it might be Oh for call it Oh five
I’m walking into this casino at the
Commerce and the big games over here and
the second big games here and there’s
two of those and the third big games
over here and when I walk in a poker
room everybody looks at me all right
because I’ve won all the titles I’m
flamboyant all the stuff whatever
there’s a little charisma and I walk in
and I had to swallow my pride I’m gonna
sit down in the fifth biggest game in
the room I’m worth a million dollars
okay and but it’s all in safe
investments but I’m walking down I’m
sitting in the fifth biggest game in the
room and everybody’s watching me wall
how do you do that how did you know the
cried and to do that because it was for
my wife and kids because I wanted to be
able to pay my bills on time and it was
proper for me to be playing at this
limit at this time well and I also knew
that ten years later 20 years later I’ll
be in the biggest game in the world
anyway but I’m gonna do it the right way
not the wrong way half of the guys in
the biggest game are playing other
people’s money half are broke
you know what I’m saying you look at
those games and I could tell you each
one of those guys and I was in better
shape than almost all of them but I’m
swallowing my proud and everybody’s like
wow look at Phillies playing in the
fifth biggest game in the room were they
talking behind your back weird insane
spreading rumors he’s really broke you
don’t know what’s he’s going hoarse
how did how you mentally and emotionally
taking that are you talking smack back
at him no I mean I talking behind my
back no bracelets I’m the guy with all
the bracelets right in all four you have
are you have you already been 7f
everything like by 2005 I was some
bracelet ly all-time leader okay o fibro
products but I’m the guy with all the
bracelets yes right I’m the guy that’s
like flashy
I’m the controversial guy right so
walking into those situations you know I
mean it but but I remember swallowing
the pride I remember driving around a
like a shit like this I mean I don’t
converse in there many times so I know
who goes to commerce that’s the commerce
you know you would have Morris chest not
every once in a while you would have
been F you know he would be there maybe
a couple time but a lot of the guys
would was played there for 15 years yeah
I drove around a minivan with like a
Charizard painting on the side and I did
that for my ego I said if you can drive
this car around
alright you have no ego it was all about
trying to control my ego so let’s talk
about that part so because a lot of
times like I remember myself is this
going to you I get out of the military
I’ve got work at Bally’s I get recruited
a way to go other sales hey won’t you
come to real estate
come do this so they recruit me at that
time to start selling websites it’s 1999
everybody wants to buy a website you
know five you know fifteen hundred bucks
so I started doing that and all of a
sudden I’m making twenty grand I’m doing
good I’m this rock star in in that game
and I’m the closing speaker on yachts in
Newport Beach I’m in Vegas twenty six
times a year I’m partying like you
wouldn’t believe I’m just running
through clubs and all this stuff and
then all of a sudden I lose everything
company shuts down it’s it’s a mess it’s
not a nice situation it’s not a nice
situation and I come back so I have to
go back to Bally’s and ask my boss for a
job and he doesn’t give me back my
manager job he gives me the morning
manager job which means you’re opening
the gym at four o’clock in the morning
so no one buys memberships before noon
that’s the position I have okay Phil can
you bring your wife at six in the
morning and by membership when’s the
last time you brought a membership Ryan
I thinking the best things that happen
there for me is I learned a lesson I
learned a lesson that you have to make
sure you keep your cash in place you
have to make sure you have your savings
I said the second chance I get I’m gonna
be completely different so second time
around I get into financial industry
Morgan Stanley trance all that stuff and
I started making money I saw everybody
bind a nice cars tour I was driving a
Ford Focus and had you know a three
hundred thousand dollars in a bank and
everybody seemed packed why don’t you
drive a nicer car I said I don’t need to
drive a nicer guy got 300 grand the bank
so when crap hit the fan and oh wait
mortgage crisis I didn’t stress and then
worried a lot of people started
panicking and that giving it so it’s
it’s amazing that you’re in a world
where it’s about gambling and you have
that kind of emotional control to be
able to keep your finances in place
which allows you now have 15 bracelets I
think number two is who Johnny Chan phil
ivey and loyal right they have ten yeah
that’s listen yeah you look at every
other sport it’s based on rings it’s
based on Super Bowls Brady’s got five
you know Montana’s got four Jordans got
six Russell’s got eleven you know all
these
names that you go through all four of
those guys I’ve had a chance to hang out
with too which is fun yeah I want to
hear some of those stories you got 15 of
them and you know these guys are at 10
and you’re saying your goal is to go to
24 I think you just recently won your 15
by the congratulations on that how are
you why are you keeping your motivation
now to say now that I’m the greatest not
I have the most and you look like you’re
40 but you told me your age yesterday
it’s on Wikipedia can’t no one would
guess your age and by the way you want
to know this there when I was going to
meet with them last night we were having
a conversation to eat together last
night at aria me him and Mario good
times that tequila was insane by the way
whatever that brand was it was insane
and everybody’s telling me Pat he’s six
seven I see he’s not six seven I’ve seen
this get play no he’s six seven he is
six seven that’s all I can tell you this
dude is six seven and I’m pretty tall so
where is your fire now to say not me
nowadays you’re no longer the Phil how
many the winning the first one you’re
hanging out with Michael Jordan Elon
Musk all these other guys they know
you’re playing with them you’re hanging
out with them because everybody all the
goats want to be with the ghosts no
matter what space it is where is your
fire to say I want to go get 24 why get
24 so what’s your vision of what you
want to do next it’s interesting because
I mean there’s two things I want to be
known for one is I want to win 24 world
championships
that’s a state of why 24 though 24 just
popped into my mind over nineteen
ninety-three after I won three in one
year I just thought I can get there
[Music]
interesting yeah I believe you
yeah I flopped three 5s by the way
hyperbole real money I will be winning a
lot of money I’ve had straits
dang it yeah you know people ask me
about the motivational thing it’s
interesting up for me like I just I
can’t even explain it except to say that
it’s just my life like my life is
designed that’s what I care about that’s
way back when I had the goal of becoming
the greatest poker player of all time
and in order to achieve that goal I have
to win more bracelets than anybody else
and so that’s been my goal that’s been
my path it’s been it’s been easy for me
to focus on that it’s
easy for me to make that are you going
right everything’s I know in the book
positivity you talk a lot about goals I
know and one of the pages you said so
his yearly goals this is one of them
when three World Series Poker bracelets
went to world poker tournaments make my
autobiography poker Brad hit New York
town bestseller get good time with Kathy
Filipina get good time with best friends
schemata bill and their families sign a
few big contracts walk 10,000 steps a
day finish my book positivity get the
television show load and think screen
lit I will produce and co-stars so do
you every year sit there and say next
year’s goal is a you big goal driven guy
huge goal driven guy and in this book
you know in this book positivity one of
the coals that was in there was that I
finished this book I did finish this
book you like this book I loved holy
robbing so I have Sheryl Sandberg on the
back I saw that ya gave me an amazing
quote and Tony Robbins an amazing quote
Tony Robbins recommends this book to his
classes which isn’t you it’s one thing
for him to say the great stuff that he
said about me on the on the jacket blurb
he recommends this book to his classes
which is amazing for me so he believes
in it it’s a very goal-oriented book but
one of my favorite things I mean it’s
eight chapters it takes seventy minutes
to read one of my favorite things about
this book is the yearly goals write down
your yearly goals and tape them to your
bathroom mirror that’s it that way every
day when you get up in the morning you
brush your teeth you you know you brush
your hair whatever it is guys we’re
pretty quick you know but it’s there and
you see this thing and whether you
acknowledge it or not it doesn’t matter
your mind knows that your goals are
right there concretely written I think
it’s important to have a place to head
you know and I think that the mind is
very powerful and will help you get to
that place and so to me this book is
gonna help millions of people think
bigger achieve more and and head towards
their dream you know this book I mean
you’re always in the right place at the
right time alright to me this is very
simple I talked about this on some other
podcast I’ve done I’ll check
you talked about handling losses I think
that’s the one thing that was
fascinating to me because a lot of times
it’s you know you got to have goals you
got to put in this you got to be driven
you got to do that you got to do this
but you went to one chapter we talked
about entitlement in a way I’ve never
heard anybody explain before you said
you were facing Scottie win right I
don’t know what year it was you were
going for your 7 you’re about to become
the all-time winner and you’re facing
Scottie and you’re the chip leader and
then while this whole thing is going on
all of a sudden internally you started
overthinking whether you deserve this
and and you said I wanna ask you myself
this question and then you lost that
tournament and then you have to come
back and ask why that happen so once you
walk me through well because I want to
hear a little bit more about that time I
had four hundred ninety five thousand
chips in front of me he had 50,000 chips
in front of him I’m playing to take the
all-time bracelet lead it’s kind of a
mindfuck you know and you know that
Doyle Brunson a Johnny Chan are
competing I mean in 2005 we want five
bracelets between the three of us there
was only like 20 events or something and
we’re just we’re playing for all time
history and I know these guys are
warriors and I’m on the precipice of
getting there and all of a sudden I
start freaking out I’m like wait a
minute do I deserve to become the
all-time greatest you’re saying that in
the moment so cracked when you started
saying that what was the next thing that
happened themselves every day the part
people sabotage themselves every day and
I and I saw this first when I saw poker
players in position to change their
lives for the better by winning a
tournament okay or by winning a large
amount of cash and they just kept
blowing it and I’m like why are they
blowing it and I do a little research
well he’s an alcoholic he doesn’t feel
good enough to take that step yet he
mistreats his kids and so I noticed
little things that would hold them back
and so after that moment I spent the
next month I wrote down all the reasons
I deserve to become the all-time
greatest I’m loyal I’ve never cheated on
my wife to this day okay that’s that’s a
debt check that’s a good thing
I’m a very loving father check that’s a
good thing
I give a lot of money to charity check
that’s a good thing I raise
a lot of money for charity fifty-two
million dollars I’ve raised for charity
now check that’s a good thing and so as
I’m looking down this list I’m loyal I’m
honest I’m authentic check check check
check check then the question is why not
me why shouldn’t I become the greatest
of all time and then next time I had
that opportunity boom I wanted and the
time after that boom I want it because I
felt like nothing was gonna hold me back
I didn’t want any excuses you know what
I’m saying we can so I sat down and
wrote that out yeah and so it’s weird
because I’m asked more now about that
chapter about entitlement see I say
entitlement is a good thing and right
now in the modern world people have
arguments that entitlement is not a good
thing that guy’s entitled well yes that
person’s entitled but should they be
entitled that’s the question how about
three ah I think you have a pair of
fives this time I’ll bet eight so the
question is entitlement good or bad
thing and so it’s interesting as I’m
doing some podcasts with Tim Ferriss and
guys like this they’re they’re always
freaked out by my concept of entitlement
and it’s a good thing to key on but if
you want to own a home and don’t do
anything in you’re entitled to you know
benefits from the government you’re
talking about I believe I deserve to win
corrected your time I’m talking about in
my book positivity I’m telling people
clean up their lives clean up your life
so that you’ll feel better about success
clean up your life so you can do great
things I wanted to make sure that I was
worthy of doing great things and so for
the people at home that are watching
this that are getting in their own way
that are holding themselves back you
people out there that are holding
yourselves back find a way to find your
worth find a way to say you know what
why not me and I think that’s an
important thing that I talked about in
my book why not me why shouldn’t I do it
and find all the reasons why you should
rather than focusing on the reasons why
you don’t succeed yeah that chapter the
way was explained was was a tremendous
on how to go about that let me ask you
another question so you go back but when
you when you’re faced off with Johnny
Chan have you already faced off with
anybody at this caliber like have you
played against Doyle have you gone
against Scottie how you played against
some of the guys at that time that were
I had already played against the
greatest players and I’d already played
against Johnny Chan both Johnny Chan was
the greatest player but I had already
faced door and Johnny Chan I had fake
yep and I’d faced Chan the year before
he busted me in the 1988 main event five
or six five raised I’ve tried to bluff
him raise ten yeah no I mean at least
five raise five okay okay looks like you
might be ahead in a big pot here let’s
see
I will check to you Johnny Chan had said
earlier that year an Esquire magazine
and we didn’t have a lot of poker back
then he had said Phil Hellmuth gonna win
the main event once he learns to bring
it in a little bit he’d already said
that in Esquire magazine and everybody
knew that article existed because poker
wasn’t talked about in the mainstream
and so Esquire magazine Johnny chance
talking about me whoa he says I’m gonna
win the main event someday woohoo you
checked yes God dang it that was a good
check if you bet I was gonna raise this
many yellow chips yeah yeah I have a
flush I know you do so you had already
kind of gotten idea to study them and
see did you find it was smaller back
then so when we had you know the four
big tournaments per year I mean yes you
know what yes penis to do so wasn’t like
it’s uh it’d be a hundred and fifty
players three hundred players but you
know who the great players were got it
and when the big tournaments came along
sometimes there’d be only 60 70 players
I knew them all I also knew that I was
the best No Limit Hold’em tournament
player in the world did they know that
they all knew something was going on
because I was winning everything in
sight well you did not just twenty
four-year-old coming up was it like I
don’t want to face this kid I was it was
just in that I was the poker brat but I
respected the people that came before
so you had already been identified as a
poker brat so everyone knew you were too
so your nickname poker brat was given
what year I gave myself that name in
like 2000 but but it was very apt
because whenever I got unlucky we talked
about this earlier in the young view
whenever I got unlucky I was like this
is a reflection of me not being good you
know what I mean like I went back to my
brothers and sisters are somehow beating
me when they’re not supposed to beat me
so let me let me ask you a feel you know
this whole thing when you watch poker
players and and in you know you see the
guys that are playing you know the great
ones you being worried about with 15
bracelets well how much of it is math
obviously math is a big element how much
of it is you reading me
and how much of it is you know playing
against me meaning you playing with my
mind and throwing me off of my element
how much of those three cuz you know
Matusow has a style of playing where he
kind of a screws with the other guy and
they come out with player abuse and
you’re messing with the other guys how
much of it was those three combined
together what would you say well I mean
there’s three elements right there’s
math and game theory okay which is
important but if we’re pure math and
game theory there’s there’s a bunch of
genius kids that studied this on the
internet that would beat me every time
and so they know they’re better at the
math and the game theory parts of the
game theory but they don’t have the
balance you can you can’t teach reading
people you have it or you don’t have it
so these guys the best they can do is
look at it you know when they’re
deciding whether to call or not those
when they look down at their watch if
it’s an odd time they’ll call if it’s an
even time they won’t like weird stuff
like superstitious to other stuff not
superstitious more like I know it’s a
50/50 shot I can’t read this person so
if it’s odd I call if it’s even I fold
you know they do stuff like that which
is elegant and kind of fun right and so
there’s great theories but if you want
to be great at poker you have to be able
to read people you have to look across
the table and know whether someone is
you handle to read them and that can’t
be taught is what you’re saying
you can’t teach reads so what do you
look for
is there anything if if I’m somebody I
soak you feel obviously I can’t read
like you but what are some things you
look for is there a certain elements oh
there you’re looking for body gesture
cuz you know the hotel’s the nose
nostril you know make a lot of money you
can make a living playing poker without
great reading ability but if you want to
be the greatest of the great you have to
be able to read people got it now you
can also influence people right you’re
good at that right so if I if I somehow
if I go like this if I go like this and
I have nothing okay and I put in the
chips exactly like that I put it back
like this my cards are right here I
memorize that motion for later for when
I actually have it because right now
when I go like this people’s minds then
they see me flip over do 7-nothing their
minds are saying they connect with that
whether they know it or not so then
later when I have it when I have aces
I’ll put in the chips exactly the same
way come back exactly like this so I’m
telling their mind
I’m telling their instincts that I have
that I don’t have it even though I have
it and so if they’re following their
intuition I’ve queered their intuition
in my favor you know what I’m saying so
there’s so much you can do at a poker
table if you do too much acting it’s bad
mm-hmm but if you can remember exactly
the way you acted when you were weak in
this case I’ll just call weak versus
strong it’s very interesting so so not
only can you read people you can
influence the way they play as well you
can influence the way they play as well
so is that through your doubt like I’m
playing doubt I don’t know if I have
something man I don’t know but you have
a stronger thing so you kind of throw me
off is that what you is that what you do
you play poker with me every time I have
it all day long I’ll show it to you I
have it I have it I have it I have it I
have it I have it and then when I put in
for Bluffs I won’t show those so your
mind is like I’ll even say things like
I’m Phil Hellmuth I always have it and
slam my card stuff people love that when
I say I’m Phil Hellmuth I always have it
they love that and they remember that
but I do that not only tip for
entertainment and good television I do
it to set their minds so when I’m
bluffing ten hands later okay
they automatically assume I have it I’ll
check check I have a feeling you have it
I don’t but I have a feeling the next
one you’re gonna have it so I can’t let
you have it got it so pro players
amateur players sometimes pro players
don’t like to play amateurs because you
can’t really read them and they’re all
over the place there’s not really a
trend you know it’s almost it’s easier
for you to play against a fellow because
you know his game then playing against a
John Doe first tournament he’s never
done anything he’s a CPA he’s a numbers
guy he’s gonna come in as a bean-counter
he’s gonna be able to get you right this
is it sometimes more difficult to play
against an amateur than a pro sometimes
for me for me it’s all about my reads
it’s all about the day so some days my
reads are just perfect and those that’s
why I have so many bracelets because
I’ll just know weak strong weak strong
weak strong and it’s like I’m dodging
bullets it’s like alright he’s strong I
fold I’m really strong but he’s super
strong I fold giving myself extra live
so that people don’t give themselves you
know what I’m saying and then some days
you just some days you’re not quite as
sharp as you’d like to be 9 how do you
read weakness right off the bat when
somebody sits and they don’t know what
they’re doing how easily do you read it
well is it just gesture how to handle
the chips yes I look at their card for
me it’s a complete picture so we have
this book out called read him and reap
ok that was a I think it was a New York
Times bestseller
we sold tons of copies where we have
specific ways to determine tells when
this guy’s weak this guy’s strong and
you’re one and and but for me I trust my
instincts and when my instincts are on
that I’m pretty pretty tough when my
instincts are off I’m not quite as tough
when your instincts are off is it
because of personal matters that are not
related to the game that’s kind of your
thing
about or even more you’re not in the
game you’re not like imagine you want
you know what I’m ask you like a
baseball yes okay so for one month why
does someone hit the cover off the ball
okay and then the next month they’re in
a slump is there any reason for that
that we know of people have been trying
to solve why their slumps in baseball
forever but to me it’s the same thing in
poker
sometimes I’m hitting the cover off the
ball and sometimes I’m not quite as
sharp as I’d like to be check Chuck ten
hi I got a higher got it got it got it
got it
so that analogy of hitting the cover off
the ball makes a lot of sense to me
versus a slump and so that’s the best I
can determine and there’s just so every
year at the World Series of Poker
someone wins two or three bracelets
every year someone’s super hot there’s
no mathematical reason for that there’s
no rhyme or reason behind that but when
they’re doing it they’re obviously doing
a bunch of stuff right so the year where
I win two bracelets the year why I win
three bracelets it seems like you’re
getting lucky it seems like you see
everything all the small things it seems
like you’re really informed for a lot of
right reasons
these things don’t happen randomly and
so you know that’s that’s what you hope
for is you’re coming into the World
Series of Poker and you hit your peak
and you win two bracelets that’s an
amazing year just winning one bracelet
these days is a nice little
accomplishment for Naha we both have
something this time I’m predicting my
instincts say that I’m supposed to check
this but I’m going to bet it for value
seven I don’t think you’re doing that I
don’t think you do I think you’re
stronger than stronger than you think
yes now I know yours your but if you got
what I think you got you’re on fire
today
and if you go what I think you got you
might win this possible I’m smiling
despite how much is over pot seven seven
eleven fifteen okay I have been on fire
today I will say that not necessarily
this hand I’m out of this one I had a
pair of tons
what’s your kicker eight okay do you
have any beat yeah you had me beat so so
going back to the whole reading people
in the math and you know being able to
push people around and you talked about
earlier with financial discipline and
where you’re at with that you know have
you yourself sat there and said you know
what if what if I got into investments I
know you doubt you’ve done some deals
yourself right you and I talked about
that last night what if you took that
same ability because you’re sitting
there in the boardroom and the boardroom
is the same exact game you know you got
to read who is BS and who’s not who’s a
money guy who’s Bou a fan who is trying
to act like they’re stronger but they’re
not have you thought about making that
shit because there’s a lot of
similarities between what you do the
thing with you that’s different is you
seem to have some kind of control with
the finances which most of the guys in
your world don’t and you seem to stay
away from the bad habits which not a lot
of guys in your world can do that
because when you’re playing you know
poker where are you are at a casino
what’s at a casino I mean anything you
want is at a casino you know you got I’m
not a drug guy but you can but if you
want drugs there you can probably get
drugs from somebody really close by
absolutely they’ll bring alcohol to you
there’s women around it’s very it’s a
very and then add to that the element of
being a celebrity right that’s that that
makes it more difficult right because
you know actresses and models and you
know are suddenly interested in somebody
like me why I’m just a professional
poker player right why would they be
interested in me it’s flattering
I got jacks just so you know I got a
pair of jacks just see the flop yeah I
had five jacks is what I had just
killing it man this is like new tricks
so how do you how do you not let it get
to your head
how do you not let the victors get to it
I mean obviously at 24 years old you
said the first time when you went to
major do get to your head and then it’s
a matter of developing strategies so you
know I talked about it in this book you
know how one thing that was important to
me is people right is this they show the
world how to think more clearly do more
move up all of these great things three
more but then they don’t give you a
strategy for when you get there so it
was important for me to have a chapter
there it’s the one thing that helps me
check ace Jack no it’s Jason the one
thing that helps me is in those
situations is is a chapter from is
another chapter from my book where I
write down I teach people to write down
their blessings okay and put them on
their bathroom mirror now if I’m happy
because of my blessings that’s great if
I’m happy because some model or actress
is after me and it’s flattering even
though I’ve never cheated on my wife I’m
still flattered if that’s what makes me
happy that I’m happy for the wrong
reasons
if I’m at me because I because because
I’m on ESPN all the time or other ego
driven things then that’s not as good as
focusing on the blessing so I’ll just
take a hard look at my bathroom mirror
raise it six more big rays I’ll get rid
of you right now William called big pot
coming let’s do it let’s see it I’ll
a thousand let’s Sammy you you made it
interesting so Annie Queen first-rate
twenty four fold okay
I had a sking one of the biggest hands
ooh turn a lot card I needed a queen
made a king but probably still lost that
was an interesting one
you beat me a big hand finally yeah
finally is the key ward have you said
you know what if I get into the
investment world have you thought about
that yes I have thought about that I’ve
been very lucky mm you have it huh have
a pretty good hand but not as good as
yours
he had a jack I have a good hand but the
last card that came out is is a concern
but I have a good hand if it’s game
money
I’m calling if it’s mine I’m not
crawling so I’m gonna take your hustle
cuz I did have two pair nines and force
yeah you had me I have been on fire I’m
kind of in the mix a lot so I have a
piece of a lot of different companies
that’s been fun one of my friends is you
know shamatha poly Hypatia
yep amazing guy amazing guy Billy who’s
a LAN must best friend bill is the best
angel investor in history and so you
know I just put money into their fund
and they they found they put it in bird
they put a bunch of money in bird and
bird it’s the fastest unicorn in history
they finally start their own fund 350
million and they hit the fastest unicorn
in history these guys are good very
lucky but good so I’ve had some fun you
know being a part of their successes but
could I go and raise could I go and
raise a hundred million dollars from my
friends I think they would give me the
money they trust me they trust my
instincts but it’s another job and I’m
happy you know I mean I know my life is
I would call my life perfect for me it’s
perfect
one thing you say gonna focus on the
bracelet John focus on you comes to the
World Poker Tour well I’m one of the
three commentators it comes to ESPN yeah
I’m one of the three commentators it
comes to being on advisory boards and
that’s a whole fun thing for me to be
involved in is predicting and helping
people decide the future of companies
that’s fun for me I have access my
friends are some of the most famous this
is meant in the world I can go to them
anytime and ask some advice that’s fun
for me I’m raising I’m still doing
events there’s a lot of television I was
filming I did an event with the
Kardashians the other day how was that
was fun for me yeah yeah did you
actually play was it a tournament was it
well the only thing I’d talk about when
it comes to the Kardashians is that we
had a charity poker tournament and I am
seated I also haven’t seen one for
President Clinton for Tiger Woods for
Eva Longoria nothing 9 hi Wow Jack’s
trapping me a little bit yeah you don’t
know me well no I didn’t bite in that at
all I was I didn’t bite I was
disappointed yeah so let me ask you a
technical question so you got four
presidents who would be the best poker
player ready
we got Trump we got Bush W we got Bill
Clinton and we have Obama who be the
best poker to Democrats to Republicans
who wins the game okay at the end times
out of ten ten tournaments they have two
plates only them for who wins the most
so Bill Clinton told me he brought his
own chipset to the White House so he’s a
player we all know that Obama’s a player
yes Obama’s a poker player I was also at
George Bush’s library opening which for
me was that easy how am i there I mean
there were two celebrities there was
governors and like the who’s who somehow
I’m in that room which was fun for me
and we’ve hosted events and and I will
say this about Bush my parents are my
family is very democratic and so you see
the highlight reels of George Bush
talking and making mistakes they’ve
George Bush I met was the most
charismatic smart guy
ever I was just freaked out by it
because you watch him on television you
seem in person I didn’t date night and
day and I was just like what is going on
here Trump actually was on the
microphone was on the television show
when I was playing so I there were three
of us left and he was doing some of the
commentary but he’s not a poker player
so I’d have to give it to Obama because
Obama you know played a lot of Poker
when he was a senator coming up in
Chicago so just by experience I’d give
it to him so who wins second final table
is to him and Bill yeah I mean because
they play they don’t crash Bluff the
best Democrats Republicans have no fear
yeah so that’s interesting to see how
that works out you ever played against
any presidents or no we’re there any
charity tournaments with anybody no
you’ve done some some stuff yourself
Bill Clinton’s I’ve ever seen Clinton’s
charity tournament three times raised
five million or something in three times
so he didn’t play but and so I’ve met
Bush at his opening we had a really nice
dialogue and they put us on the front
page of which was weird for me they put
us on the front page of the London Times
and the picture was too grainy to use
which they were supposed to be on the
front page the here’s Phil help me with
the guy that outlawed poker and costing
millions of dollars only the London
newspapers could do that so let me ask I
asked Kevin Hart I says he give me the
top five comedians of all time okay and
he gave this list who would you say are
the top five poker players of all time
you played against these guys taking my
name out of it taking your name out of
it I mean Johnny Chan’s a great player
to this day and like he makes a lot of
money playing Doyle Brunson you know he
just retired from poker but Doyle played
poker at the highest level until he was
88 years old he was making money last
month against the young guns at age 88
you know Danny on the grind when it
comes to tournaments is a great player
great player so there are some young
I’m coming guys but you can’t quite pull
the trigger and call them the greatest
time someone’s 25 yeah you don’t know
what they’re gonna do are they even
gonna continue display the game you know
what I mean who’s the dumb guy you
played against a Don what’s-his-name Don
or Dan you know what I’m talking about
the Internet young man jungle man damn
yes the internet gotta tell so cocky
he’s also dougie oak it’s pretty cocky
he’s pretty good
jungle man Dan he’s he’s pretty good
phaidor Holtz’s as a young guy that’s
one a lot there’s a couple of other
young guys you know if they continue on
their trajectory they’ll be great but
you asked me kind of the greatest
difficulty I won’t go in there yeah
so I’m going with Doyle Johnny Chan Phil
Ivey you put Phil as a top five yes cuz
Phil Ivy’s been there long enough he’s
also won ton bracelets he also wins a
lot of money playing in the high-stakes
cash games how different is that game
Bob within the tournament
different I mean these guys know
medically a lot of them spend their time
in McAllen God you know so they’re
playing high stakes in Macau and now the
Philippines is a hot spot interesting so
they’re they’re playing high-stakes
poker winning and losing $500,000 in one
night you know for me that’s not that’s
not the life I want I don’t want to be
spending my time in far-flung places
playing poker every day you know you
throw it in there like I have a nice
cleaner rocket ace is what I got I got a
set already I think you’re strong
listened no I think I think I am strong
but it depends on how strong a screams
Wow adding the flop tale I’m going to
I’m trying to bully a little bit see if
it works on camera is this guy a rookie
Patrick David entrepreneur guy can can
he bully this other legend guys notice
all the talking all of a sudden this am
I mean I’m a student there’s a huge
learning he has a huge change so yes you
think I’ve got a huge chance so explain
to me what a huge hand is I’m curious
cuz I’m I’m the amateur well I don’t
know Ace King ace Queen or
a nice pair Oh can say that’s nice pair
is what nice burgers are Bob hello it’s
herb oh okay then I do yes I have a nice
pair so I follow this hand I have a nice
pair I’ll give it to him I have a nice
so there’s a lesson there and in there’s
a lesson for you Patrick and when you
started talking and baiting a little bit
then I’m Louise obviously he’s after me
he suddenly wants to engage and
challenge me when he’s ready to go
listen when you have 60 straight hands
of seven to nine I don’t blame you but
I’m still gonna teach you I’m a student
man I’m all yours
so that’s a pretty good list Johnny Chan
Doyle Brunson Phil Ivey and you gotta
put in a grind you in there first like
tournament skills I’d say ten huh
yours worst bad beat of all time that
you still think about or that you
remember well I wouldn’t call it a bet I
just one night I was in Montecarlo and
Phil Ivy’s there and Patrick Antonius is
there another great young player and and
we start playing Chinese poker which is
a game and I lost I ended up playing
Phil Ivey all night long and I lost five
hundred and thirty six thousand dollars
to Phil hmm that was the worst day of my
life and poker you know and then I a
couple days earlier I had busted out of
a tournament in Montecarlo where I had
pocket kings and the other guy had
pocket aces and I picked up pocket
queens twice so it was a very unlucky
kind of stretch for me come on I’ve
always had so far it’s yours sometimes
nights like that occur when something
good happens financially yep so I’d had
I guess I had five million dollars at my
account which was a lot of money back
there was a lot of money for anybody
even today and I really hadn’t had a
chance to digest the money and then I go
and loose 530
6,000 ahem this is immediate this is the
right-of-way couple months later got it
and I was just like so disappointed
myself but I’ll tell you what I did do I
called my wife in Montecarlo and I said
I’m not going to bed I said honey I blew
five hundred thirty-six thousand dollars
today this is what I want you to do I’m
not going to bed until you give two
hundred thousand dollars to charity and
you pay off the mortgage two hundred and
seventy thousand or whatever it was so I
got to a million dollars but I gave two
hundred thousand maybe was a hundred and
fifty thousand to charity and if you’re
gonna be an idiot blow 536 you might as
well give some to charity and you might
as well pay off the mortgage mm-hmm and
I stayed with her on the phone for an
hour until she wrote out every check and
then I went to bed so I kind of turned
it around to like alright if you’re
gonna be stupid
you might as well take care of some
other people you know while you’re at it
how do you how do you handle tilt how do
you handle not going through you know
tilt cuz you see that all the time you
see guys who are on a bad beat and then
they go aggressive and double again and
double them all in all in again and then
they lose how do you like in that moment
are you aware you’re about to tell
there’s a hard thing and and you know
and obviously my nickname’s poker brat
so I tilt sometimes emotionally and I’m
like I can’t believe it you go look at
some of the views I have tens of
millions
I’ll see you yes it’s just you just have
to type in Phil Hellmuth blow that’s it
and some of those have 18 million views
26 million views of me just going crazy
and losing it and those times I mean I
just wish I could handle myself better
but again it goes back to me being the
poker brat me understanding I’m the best
player in the world and I played this
hand so well I didn’t deserve to lose
you know my brother rolling double sixes
and double fives to beat me at
backgammon and me going crazy that’s
what comes out you know and what I
should do is just say I shouldn’t be
able to handle it better and say of
course you were a big favorite because
you’re Phil but instead I’m like I can’t
believe he did that bub above above
above above a you know I t’s draymond
Green about that because check Queen
so draymond green you know have you
watched him when he loses it on the
court horse it’s great television
of course he’s walking around the court
nobody can stop him but other than your
people trying to hold them back and I’m
like that’s exactly me it cost them one
championship by the way well I’m not
gonna say that but I’ll just say that
I’ll just say that him losing it is very
similar I look at him like that’s me
yeah you know in the exact same spot
just unable to control himself for a
minute or two and then all the sudden
control comes do you think like in that
moment like I think it’s great
television when he loses it yeah I think
it’s great television when I lose it no
I’m not talking great television look
what I’m saying with you you know how
sometimes you sit with somebody and they
say you’re a hothead you know you’re you
got a temper you know you’re so
competitive you’re so fierce
you gotta tone yourself down you get you
at home you gotta bring but you got to
bring it down you can’t be like this all
the time you are aware you’re not 22
anymore so when that happens to you in
your 40s 50s and you’re going through it
have you accepted yourself that’s how I
am but I’m never gonna get past the
point where I’m gonna lose X Y Z like
what are you telling yourself in that
moment you get better and better you get
better and better with it if you would
have saw me in the 1990s I was like that
every day
now I’m like that every fifth day or
something so you just get better and
smarter I mean my wife and I you know we
spend a lot of time together in therapy
and it’s just amazing for me it’s the
best couples therapy we’re in there she
can tell me you did this wrong you do
that wrong right and I can defend myself
or say you’re right but because my wife
and I have been doing couples therapy
for 20 years 20 years 20 years as well
and we’ll go we’ll go five hours six
hours a month and because it’s where we
can be supposed each other and we just
get better and smarter and better and
smarter and better and then you find
this this is your primary relationship
my primary relationship gets better and
better and better
well guess what every other relationship
and so to me that’s important and then
you you get better and better there are
years I think it was 2007 where I put in
like a ton of money with Kings and the
young Pro had Jack’s and he flopped the
jack and he had a jack on the river and
everybody was looking you could a pin
could drop they’re waiting for the Phil
Hellmuth blow up and I smiled and I
walked away and I said I guess that’s to
myself I thought I guess that’s why I’m
the best player in the world this guys
supposed to be really good he put it
away too much money with Jack’s that’s
why I’m me and that hole until that
whole month
I was super calm and I had a great World
Series of Poker a bunch of deep finishes
it’s probably good for me to be come
more often and I’m working on it we’re
gonna say that it’s probably better
probably better for me to be you know
you had a big blowup like last month
right was the last month what was it
when one day you know everybody was
saying I can’t believe you went off and
you were just what the you fully went
off right now there’s no player amuse
you did it out of position you know
what’s going on here all these articles
was written about that blow-up of yours
you know do you think because you are
Phil Hellmuth you’re forgiven well you
know sometime Michael Jordan he would
get to take that you know that the fouls
that nobody else is gonna get he would
get it and then as a LeBron is coming
ups like how come you guys are not
calling the fan son becoming a Jordan
car now they call it on everybody if you
touch LeBron you think you have a little
bit because you’re entitled as being the
goat so they gotta let you get away with
that because the television needs it as
well well so that’s interesting because
for like months and months and months
people come up to me and they say I love
random people on the street I love you
I’m like what is going on here love
really you know I mean I keep hearing
that and so that way but I took that in
a little bit too much maybe so now the
incident you’re talking about four
minutes left on day two of the main
event and four minutes left and we’re
all tired and exhausted excuse and this
guy’s been beating me all day excuse and
he a fireman from
Massachusetts super nice guy we had a
really good day together and I Bettany
moves in and I just starts swearing and
going off but there was a third person
who thought so I’m at fault I don’t
think anything of it until I start
seeing I I’m going to bed at 1:00 in the
morning 2:00 in the morning and this
thread starts about how out of line I
was and I’m like oh my god this is gonna
be big and there’s video evidence and
the tournament directors didn’t give me
a penalty didn’t give you a penalty
right which may or may not I deserved a
penalty didn’t matter I was gonna you
know it’s a 20 minute penalty
I didn’t the penalty wouldn’t didn’t
matter except the principle of whether
they gave me a fee or not and maybe
they’re right maybe I was supposed to
get a penalty but anyway because I acted
up the theory was this guy called
instead of folded I think this guy was
calling anyway and I think if he didn’t
call I was gonna call but it doesn’t
matter there’s a valid argument for me
losing it out of turn okay and so I bust
the next day in the main event Ace King
against ace 9 the last card is a 9 but
it’s live on ESPN and it’s being shown
into a casino at the Bellagio where
there’s a thousand people playing it’s
being shown at the Wynn where there’s a
thousand people playing and when the
nine comes everybody starts cheering
Phil’s busted and I when I read that at
3 in the morning
I almost started crying I’m like oh my
god everybody’s against me you know from
hearing love every day to 500 negative
tweets about how out of line I was all
this crazy shit and I’m and I’m reading
this at 3 in the morning that these two
rooms cheered and I’m like ah and this
is hurting it’s like painful and I’m
like oh my god I must have been way way
way out of line on this one so I said
alright how do I solve this and I said
here’s what I’ll do I will give the guy
James Campbell a $10,000 buy-in for next
year which everybody would say was above
and beyond the call of duty
but maybe the right to I think it’s the
right thing to do so I announced I’m
gonna buy him in the next year so I went
from the first time in my life
200 negative tweets I announced on
buying him in to the main event next
year I’m putting up $10,000 okay and all
of a sudden 500 positive tweets so the
worst day of my life
tweets wise and people rooting against
me the very next day I got 500 positive
Wow everybody’s crazy they’re like yes
phil was out of line but he manned up
and he bought him in all the great
players that had weighed in but now I’m
like now I’m fighting on social media in
the past I didn’t fight ok and I’m gonna
fight it and two guys that were
particularly out of line they were just
joining in on the piyo who attacked both
of them immediately after announcing
this I threw in the attack so I attacked
two guys who were out of line but
everybody else I let go and then the
weird thing was so after having 500
positive tweets and all kinds of
positive press and all these interviews
about this stuff then three days later I
want a bracelet and I had 3,000 positive
tweets so after the worst day of my life
three social media wise two or three
hundred negative tweets it went from one
day later 500 positive tweets to three
late days later 3,000 positive tweets
and it’s just like it’s just so fickle
the way things can change so was I out
of line in that moment against that guy
yes the reason why is because when he
raised me I reacted too quickly
I should have inwardly said fuck and
just shut up and waited for this guy to
act but instead I outwardly did it and
so it’s weird the very thing that made
me famous the very thing that people
love to watch on television the ratings
are always much higher when I’m on
television sometimes huge difference in
ratings when I’m on television people
are waiting for me to go off and lose it
in those moments and so everybody’s
secretly laughing at that kinda like god
this guy what’s wrong with them but we
love it because we care too we hate
losing that very thing backfired against
me cuz I went a little bit too far hmm
but then to like have the response but I
made up for it and it’s the first time
you don’t know about
is that is that uh is that something
going on there like well are you are you
like that’s restraint I mean the
straight and luyties to over money and
you don’t look happy
yes so okay well I’m gonna say I’m ahead
I’m gonna fault okay so I had fives with
a queen a good hand so let me ask you
there was a part in a book where you
talked about something that was it
happens in business all the time and
that’s betrayal right the whole concept
of betrayal you have this guy I don’t
know what’s the terminology guys using
poker where you fund me and I go play
and we do chop chop on whatever profits
I’m making I’m a pretty good player so
I’m working for you a lot of times you’d
go to commerce and they’d be these guys
with money and you know they’re handling
somebody else’s money and they’re
playing blackjack
because commerce allows you to be the
dealer I’ve seen that so impoetant
concept applies you give this one guy
apparently $28,000 and in a span of four
hands he loses the $28,000 and you’re
saying how did this thing captain so
maybe walk walk us through that
so this is from my book positivity it’s
a chapter hate hurts you which I think
could have the biggest impact if I’m
gonna help the world they hate heard she
was gonna be my favorite so this guy I
had twenty there was twenty eight
thousand dollars on a website now
understand I had been staking him I’d
been sending him a check to feed his
family very famous player never revealed
his name ever and he so there’s twenty
eight thousand dollars fourteen is his
fourteen thousand is his money fourteen
is mine and I get a phone call on a
Monday night and it’s the site ultimate
that and they say they say this guy just
lost twenty eight thousand dollars I say
I know who it is and they say but wait
in three hands now it was impossible to
lose more than three thousand dollars if
you ran as bad as you could imagine it
was a limit game the most you could lose
was maybe three thousand dollars and I’m
like twenty eight thousand and three
hands well because they just raised back
and forth raised back and forth until
all the money was in and then one of the
guys folded
check then one of the guys folded okay
so I’m like oh my god
tell me more and I know who the guy is
and I’m like this guy just robbed
$28,000 I talked to the people at the
said I said can you save the money they
said no it’s already been withdrawn from
the site the guy just stole $14,000 from
me and I’m so bummed out you know and I
call one of my friends up my friends
like fly him you have all the evidence I
call my other friend up fry em you have
all the evidence I could have pressed
the button send an email off and all of
it would have been public in this guy
would have his reputation would have
gone like this okay and instead I
thought I’d been studying Buddhism I
thought all right let me think about
this
after two hours I’m like wait a minute
you have the perfect life Phil you live
in an amazing house you have the perfect
wife you have two great kids you have
your health you have everything all
right
you do everything aboveboard you could
throw mud at him you know and he doesn’t
have anything to throw back but do you
really want to go down that path and
after three hours I said to my wife I
said honey I said this is what we’re
gonna go to the most expensive
restaurant that we can find and we’re
gonna buy a bottle of Chateau de Kem for
$500 we’re gonna celebrate our lives I’m
gonna forgive this guy I’m gonna forgive
him I’m gonna tell me owes me $14,000 I
talked to him on the phone he’s crying
you know I called up the site and I said
seal this we’re done with it
I don’t want it going public don’t tell
anybody this I know he’s a famous guy
but don’t tell anybody the site seals it
I called my friend up and I said listen
I don’t want you guys to ever talk about
this if you do I’m gonna be really
bummed out and we’re not gonna be
friends anymore
because um a guy that forgives and your
hatred of this person although natural
and normal I don’t want to be I don’t
want that called into play ever so I
can’t have either one of you guys
talking about this ever so they agree
not to talk
about it this was a Friday I mean a
Monday on Friday I find myself on the
East Coast now I live in California on
the East Coast I walk up to the guy in
the hallway and this is a nice way I
like to think about life if I walk
through a hallway of life and any one
person comes at me I will never turn
right or left because I’ve forgiven
everybody that slighted me and I don’t
hate anybody in life most people will
turn right or left if a certain person
comes not me and so you know the
metaphor and the reality is I walk right
up to the guy shook his hand he’s crying
again he’s like oh my god he’s like I
can’t believe he didn’t tell anybody you
saved my life and I’m like you owe me
$14,000 I shook his hand it was not easy
to shake his hand I’m not saying it felt
good but I shook his hand chose to
forgive him okay fast forward another so
the very next day we’re playing in a ten
thousand dollar buying tournament World
Poker Tour at Foxwoods if I had released
what I’d released about him every player
in that room comes up and asked me about
it individually
did this guy really do this so I’m
spending all this time throwing mud at
somebody else but instead I’m focusing
on the tournament I make it past day one
day two day three and all of a sudden at
the final table of this tournament now I
finish third but the interesting thing
to me is this I cashed for two hundred
and eighty thousand exactly ten times
and it’s like it was a sign forgiveness
is the way to go two hundred and eighty
thousand dollars I cashed for exactly
ten times you know and I guarantee you
if I had thrown the mud at this guy
there’s no way I’m gonna make it I’m
gonna spend all my energy telling the
truth about him I’m gonna spend all my
energy but instead forgiveness led to a
10x hit two hundred and eighty thousand
dollars and I said all right that’s the
way I’m going the rest of my life and so
I invented this three step process for
forgiveness I looked it up I couldn’t
find it anywhere on the internet some of
it I learned from the Lama Surya das but
a lot of it’s me step one for forgiving
somebody and it’s all in this book
positivity step one I think
about that person that you hate the most
so your people at home
visualize the person you hate the most
right now take 10 seconds you know who
that person is
okay step 1 imagine what they did to you
and why they did it do they have a good
reason most times there’s not a good
reason okay but try to put yourself in
their shoes number one okay step two try
to imagine something good about that
person are they a family man maybe they
completely screw everybody in life but
maybe they’re a family person maybe
you’re the only person that they’ve ever
slighted is there something good are
they a family person are they loyal I
mean do they give a lot of money to
charity can you find one good thing
about this person or maybe three or four
good things step 3 go to your go to go
to your house when there’s nobody in it
it’s important nobody’s in it or if
there is somebody there you tell your
wife honey I need 40 minutes you can’t
come upstairs I’m gonna deepen a
meditation go to your bed
lie down in your bed and close your eyes
and visualize the person you hate okay
and start sending them love it’s gonna
feel super weird super counterintuitive
you’re gonna be like what is this Ike
Ike but you’re sending this person love
love love love love and what I’m doing
that I can’t help but think of the
people that I actually love and I send
them love as well okay but now you’re
sending this person love I guarantee you
and you spend a half an hour doing this
the next time you see this person just
gonna be a totally different interaction
I’ve done this in three cases and when I
ran into that person all three times
it’s like they knew I’d sent them love
so maybe if you’re scientists you say
well there’s no reason that that
actually happened but if you’re a
scientist you might say well you you
looked at the person differently than
you’ve ever looked at them and they
noticed it that’s science you look at
them in a more forgiving nice way don’t
immediately attack them right that’s
science maybe they pick up on that but
the interaction is always different and
it’s just weird to me but I’ve used this
concept like I say at least three or
four times where I really needed to use
it and so
what’s happening your hate is
disappearing the people that you hate
the most your hate is gone what’s gonna
fill that void of you hating love right
or something else other than hate yep
and so to me this is a huge huge huge
lesson that I’ve taught a lot of my
friends and they just have more time for
positivity how old were you more time to
do great things
how old were you when you experienced
this 40 years old 40 years old Wow
so there’s not one person in this world
that I hate or even dislike because all
I have to do is do this three-step
process which really takes an hour to do
it twice and all of a sudden I don’t
hate that person this is one of the
hardest things to do you know you this
is by far one of the hardest things to
do in life and in business is
forgiveness no matter what books you
read in any religion whether CS Lewis
write in his book and he says the
toughest things to do is forgiveness and
you you gave the formula to it so you
know one or one of the things that will
says we’re wrapping up here I interview
a lot of people I don’t endorse a lot of
people’s books I say go buy their books
but I don’t endorse a lot of people’s
books and say I say here’s a great book
you can go what if you followed by a
tell me you know I’ll tell them this is
the book go buy the book but I don’t say
it’s a phenomenal book this book I was
flying out here to our conference Las
Vegas we had 5,000 people here at the
Venetian okay
we had Kevin Hart as one the performance
and good friend of mine Nick vucic was
here another guy named Joe Jordan was a
legend in the industry I read on the
flight I’m just sitting on like the rent
of my wife’s talking to me I’m like baby
you’re interrupting me babe I’m really
into this book and she keeps saying I’m
Blake babe read this part they read this
part in our marketing director meeting
which is our broker meeting okay in all
marketing he was in a meeting in our
marketing director meeting I reference
to stories from your book in all
marketing director meeting that only
happens if a book has an impact guys I’m
telling you right now this book smaller
the book nothing crazy about it
positivity I highly recommend you go buy
this book and read this book it is very
difficult to do the things he talks
about
here but it opens up to so many other
opportunities that can come to you if
you can go the entitlement positivity in
time and feeling like you belong there
the concept of forgiveness to hate you
know when you have somebody that betrays
you and there’s a few other things I
don’t want to say because I want you to
go read it yourself but I actually
endorse this book so I suggest you go by
this book positivity my man phenomenal
book Mario let’s put a link below that
they can go to the bitly for them to see
it so you can go down there and buy the
book we’ll put the link straight to it
and aside from that I mean obviously
this time if we look at the chips he
kicked my ass okay and and maybe maybe
we’re gonna do this another time and the
follow up the next game we do maybe
we’ll do real money and we’ll see how
this book takes seventy minutes to read
yeah this is my this is this I’ve been
meaning to write this book since 2000
okay and it’s it’s been on my mind my
autobiography came out in August last
year six or seven or eight years between
books I couldn’t wait
within six months this book was out
February 8th of this year because this
is the book where I think and I told my
wife for the first time in my life I
said honey if something happens to me on
an airplane or something weird happens
you have the responsibility to finish
this book I kept her on all the emails I
said this is important for the world
because I can leave a legacy and help
millions of people think bigger the
truths that I’ve learned after searching
so hard all these years are in this book
if something happens to me you need to
make sure you finish the book and she’s
like okay honey I said I think I’m gonna
be alright but I mean I need to get this
out it’s that important to me and by the
way here’s the one thing there’s guys
that go out there and pitch books
because they need to make money he
doesn’t need to make money
oh you don’t make money writing books
that’s what can I can tell you for a
fact you know you’re gonna make you know
some money but you know he plays one
game
he’s gonna make money Tenex than selling
these books the message is that powerful
I would suggest you divide until other
people also to go buy it as well but
Phil brother this has been a blast I
look forward to the next time we have a
sit-down like I said maybe the next time
gonna be some real money how I how I
match up against you with real money
rather than this kind of money again
thanks for your time in appreciate you
by the way if you haven’t subscribed
click on the sub button if you want to
send a message to fill out of what you
took away today he actually you heard
today that he does Twitter so he does
respond back if you have anything you
took away from the message here today
Phil what’s your handle on Twitter yeah
Phil underscore Hellmuth on Twitter and
I’m being the greatest I know it’s
cocking being the greatest his Instagram
is being the greatest by the way that’s
the name being literally is not being
cerca it’s called being the greatest but
sentiments we tagged me let us somewhere
you took away from this interview take
man oh man all right what do you get
Queen hi Queen how you got it oh you
tried to blow me gobble you can’t miss me oh my queen hi
if you want to be great at poker you
have to be able to read people you have
to look across the table and know
whether someone is weak did you see some
guys that you said that guy could be as
good as me if not better than me but he
doesn’t manage his finances his habits I
ended up playing Phil Ivey all night
long and I lost five hundred and thirty
six thousand dollars wins the
championship so you got four presidents
who would be the best poker player a lot
of people are fascinated by the game of
poker myself included and one of the
things about poker is you know when you
meet somebody that’s very good at it we
like the movie rounders because in that
movie Matt Damon goes against Johnny
Chan and he made him bluff and he had
nothing going on he threw his cards
we’re talking to the guy that at 24
years old
beats Johnny Chan in 1989 and he becomes
the champion and then from there he wins
15 bracelets by the way 15 bracelets his
first place number 2 is 10 I think it’s
Phil Ivey Doyle and he had Johnny Chen
left and he has 15 that’s 15 percent
fifty percent more than number two the
Michael Jordan’s got six this guy’s the
goat in his game and so we’re gonna get
into a lot of different topics today
with the game of poker some of it has to
do with business some of it has to do
with life some of it has to do with the
game so would that being said Phil
welcome to that retainment thanks
Patrick yes so Phil craziest guy you
played up against where you couldn’t
read him it was you know challenging
facing him who would it be their guy
named Elaine flack and when he was
really drunk he was so I always tell
people drunk lame flack because that guy
when he was drunk he was fearless it
seemed like he knew exactly what you had
when he was drunk and so drunk Layne
flack was always a challenge
Chuck some people play better when
they’re drunk so Phil let me ask you if
you decided to lock on to me and you
teach me how to play this game how good
could I get every great businessman I
believe can become great at poker really
you’re a great businessman Carl Icahn
I’m famous green male or he’s a hot
poker player a lot of the great ones in
as it translates it’s about managing
people around you which is trying to
read people it’s about managing your
assets
those are your chips it’s about
understanding when to go big and when
not to go big and so we find that if
you’re great at business you have a real
good chance to become fantastic poker
player obviously your business skills
eight-hundred proceed you call your
thinking about being a great businessmen
you have no fear you know what I mean
there’s what are you afraid of you used
to being successful your whole life
you’re playing against a bunch of people
that play poker for a living they’re
tough but you’ll discover that you have
some big edges you know what I mean you
as the businessmen or you as you as the
businessman got it yeah they’re
accustomed to the risk they’re
accustomed to starting all over and real
fear that’s the great thing about nice
and that’s the great thing about being a
businessman and entering our game a
great businessman you have no fear so
and and most businessmen are pretty
smart they’re not gonna sit down and
risk too much money they’re going to
feel comfortable and alliances are
formed where you can be with you know a
great poker player will will coach
somebody who’s a businessman and maybe
the businessmen stake some more pays
them for lessons or you know there’s a
nice quid pro quo between great
businessmen and great poker players I’ll
call I have a straight really yeah okay
said I got you yeah yep you got it now
if we were playing put in three thousand
two no you’re gonna get it of course you
gotta get it that was clean the
interesting thing about that and is if
we were playing for real money yeah I
think you might have folded there on the
end because you would have been like all
right you know I mean he probably has
maybe he’s probably not bluffing I would
have probably fold it I wanted to see
what you had exactly so there’s a
difference between because we’re not
playing for real money for me personally
since we’re filming I’m playing my best
game because it just comes natural
of lease oh I already folded but when
you’re not used to playing for free it’s
just easy to say all right I call I want
to see what you have Phil were you
always super competitive oh yeah always
since they won the reason I’m the poker
brat is because when I was young I
didn’t get good grades my brothers and
sisters all got straight A’s they all
played music instruments they were all
athletes and so I’m the oldest of five
what the heck did I have in my life
nothing right so my grades weren’t good
I had a TV I wasn’t a great athlete I
was good I didn’t play any musical
instruments so my parents showered
praise on the other four kids so what
did I have in my life I had to be the
best at all these games and so from an
early age I became the best and my mind
was always tuned towards I want to play
the games and I’m the oldest of five
mm-hmm
so I rarely lost a game and when I did
lose a game I’d be like oh my god I
can’t believe it you rolled double sixes
n double fives that’s the only way I
could lose and I’d storm out of there
like a poker brat meltdown because what
did I have in my life when I’m 14
nothing all I had was master of all
games Wow
and so from a very early age games were
the most important thing to me and I
don’t think that I was a lot of fun for
my brothers and sisters to play against
because I was just so intense and I
played so perfectly and it was hard for
them to beat me weird a intense like you
are now
personality-wise no I mean they’re just
there’s only one room for one guy to get
super intense they would try their
hardest but generally speaking I kind of
smashed everybody in my family games
wise so you know so that’s where the
poker brat meltdowns came from is when I
finally lost at a game to them then I
had absolutely nothing left so I’d be
like oh my god I played perfectly I
deserve this so you know you
fast-forward 30 years I’m still doing
the same stuff you know how did they see
you how does your family see you doing
when you see when you do it on
television my family you know sees a
familiar person on television but they
also know that you know my family loves
me my family I’m gonna bet eight my
family loves me they know they
they know that I’m a good guy you know I
help help them all pay for their college
law school everything all for yeah I
didn’t pay 100% of their way but I
helped all of them with their schooling
because if you’re gonna make all this
money in your 22 23 24 what are you
gonna do with it you know and so to me
the best thing I could do was to just
support my brothers and sisters in
education education has been important
to my family even though you know and
maybe that’s why I’m married to a doctor
you know education has been an important
thing but I chose a different route so
now what woody games you guys will play
oh you seem like monopoly clue is it is
it anything and everything not only clue
backgammon every game you can that you
were growing up you know we played hey
what do you got King high you beat me
Wow oh look give it you got to give me
some hey my sister Molly was a top 40
scientist in the world under 40 you know
my brother Dave has a law firm Hellmuth
in Johnson he has 50 attorneys working
for him I mean the success level for our
family’s kind of crazy my other sister
Keri finished her PhD she has her law
degree and she wrote in the joy of the
Italia you know she was a world-class
cyclist so we were all pretty who would
your parents to raise those kinds of
kids what did your mom and dad do well
my mom you know she had the saying in
our bathroom Marilyn who grow up you are
what you think you become what you think
what you think becomes reality and
that’s saying we saw every day so we
thought all right if we are what we
think and we become what we think and
what we think becomes reality then we
might as well think big yeah I know you
talked about that in the book so you
said you’d see it in the mirror you’d
see it everywhere and every day
seven people my parents five kids all
living on one floor was a big house we
all lived on one floor and we all use
the same bathroom this is Wisconsin and
there’s a saying you are what you think
you become what you think what you think
of is reality and after like nine months
this thing would be grungy you know and
and I’d look up the next day and and
there’d be a new one same sign and my
mom had that up for 10 years and I think
it was very influenced all of us to you
know to go for it eight or more five
more if I want to see it – not a big
deal Wow nicely played that’s a straight
dammit that was a very tricky you had
the best possible hand on the turn a
stranger I was trying to see what you
were gonna do you ran me yeah was
medicine against me damn it
and you raced enough where I had to call
on the river yeah I was gonna do 3,200
like you I’m like you know what I can’t
do that if you raise that much I just
fall yeah you played it perfect so it’s
1989 you are 24 years old you’re facing
Johnny Chan you’re at the last table I
mean you you are really wanting to come
out there make a statement you’ve been
coming to Vegas 10 times back and forth
every time you lost you won back
Wisconsin made your money came back your
loss 10 times now you’re facing this guy
this is the biggest tournament you win
it’s $755,000 we call that donkeys
donkeys where people you know people
make money they bring it to Vegas and
right before you became who you are
today
correct so you face this guy now
obviously a lot of people seen the movie
rounders and you know Matt Damon plays
the actor facing Johnny this is real
life he’s got I think in ace and seven
of spades you got pocket nines you’re
not expecting to raise it well the the
way it came down was like this first of
all I told everybody that I was going to
win
event we had back then we had answering
machines my answering machine was before
I left for Vegas I will be you’re
talking to the reigning world champion
of Poker this is before you won correct
so already in April before I left for
Vegas for the World Series I left a
message on machine you’re talking to the
reigning world champ yeah kind of like I
don’t know what you would call that
visualization sure thing or just putting
it out there yeah and I really felt like
I was gonna win it I was telling
everybody I was the best player in the
world I was 24 and Hold’em made sense to
me and I knew there weren’t if there
were one or two players better than me
in the world you could argue one or two
guys were better than me in the world
but I didn’t think anybody was at that
point and I was already starting to
crush No Limit Hold’em tournaments so
first I told everybody I was gonna win
it and then I told everybody that I
wasn’t gonna make a deal
now that’s gutsy 750,000 for first
300,000 for second that’s 450,000 in
1989 to a 24 year old see the only way
I’ll make a deal is somehow if I play
Johnny Chan heads up because he’d won it
in 87 and 88 and he was considered the
best player in the world and I knew Chan
was great but I’d been preparing for
this moment for a year how visualising I
was going to win it believing I was
going to win it telling everybody I was
gonna win it and it comes to pass we’re
heads up so four hands before the hand
you brought up I had a seven of diamonds
the blinds were five and 10,000 I made
it 35,000 thirty fives kind of a 3.5
we’d call that that’s a big raise and it
got to him he called the 35 and raced a
hundred and thirty thousand more and I’m
like what he so in other words there’s
like 70 out there he raised a hundred
and thirty more no one raises that
amount and I’m like man I don’t know
what’s going on here but he shifted and
I had whispered to him 20 minutes
earlier I’m gonna play perfect poker
you’re gonna have to get lucky to beat
me you tell him this I told him that and
and so exactly so I folded that one I’m
like all right I have to give him the
benefit of the doubt here I don’t want
four hands later I looked down at pocket
nines and it’s like this it was like the
future was lying in front of me I’m
gonna make it 35 he’s gonna raise a
hundred and thirty and I’m gonna go all
in
now ESPN was there filming a fledgling
little Network my dad is in the crowd
somewhere but I didn’t want him in my
sight for four days straight because I
figured I’d freak out or he’d freak out
and so the whole poker world is in the
stands watching and I’m all in and I’m
just like all right I just didn’t want
at that point I’m thinking don’t give
anything away this is your chance to win
the tournament or loose a turn but don’t
make any assumptions because I’d been in
spots where I’d made assumptions before
where you try to get somebody to fold
you try to get somebody to call and I
thought I’m not gonna do any of that I’m
just gonna sit back and wait you know
and I’m thinking to myself I don’t want
him to call with king/queen I don’t want
a coin flip for the main event where my
coin flip I mean if he is king queen and
I have nines I’m like 53% to win I don’t
want to be flipping a coin and after a
long long time he shrugs and puts in all
the money now there’s 1.2 million in the
pot at that point there had been no deal
made at that point if we just deal it
out and I thought I’d watched him hit
his cards over and over again now I know
I’m a to and after one favorite he is a
seven of spades I have two black nines
he’s gonna need to hit an ace mm-hmm but
I’d watched him hit that card he was
he’d won it in 87 he’d won it in 88 he’d
won two other big tournaments also he’s
the hottest player in the world but
every time he got his money and bad he
was hitting his card and I was like I
didn’t know anybody I’m at the Horseshoe
I’m like you know are you known at this
time were not yet I’m known in the poker
world okay
he’s known period you are known in your
world correct at that point we made a
small save one hundred and fifty
thousand two hundred thousand which is
horrible math on my part but it locked
me in to where i if I finished second I
was gonna get 450 and he was going to
get 650 and if I was gonna finish first
I was going to get 650 I was going to
give up a hundred to a hundred and fifty
thousand
so at least I was going to walk away
with 450 we’re outside talking and Jack
Binion comes running out he’s like
what’s going on here the press is
talking what are you guys doing and
Johnny said no big deal we’re making a
save and so we go back in and Jack’s
like okay whatever and Johnny said it
and I said are we on for the save and he
said yes I said we’re on for the save
then they dealt and so the flop comes
King King 10 good to flop for me but not
great now it needs a 10 or an ace the
turn is a queen now chanting yeah yeah
there’s three tens in the deck there’s
four jacks for them to make a straight
that’s seven there’s three Queens and
three aces
so he has 13 outs I have still have 31
outs I’m still two and a half to one
favorite but with one card to come to
decide my fate and the river was to six
of Spades and my hands go up like this
right away twice and there’s a camera
that catches it from above you can see
this on the internet I go like this
twice and immediately I turn around and
there’s they had like I’m their son
second on the table over a million in
cash this is 1989 so multiply that times
I don’t know 20 or whatever the heck it
is right and so there’s security
everywhere my dad’s running up the aisle
now you know and security stops I’m like
no no it’s my dad let him through Wow
and embrace my father had my father
there who was anti poker from day one
but it finally yielded and said all
right
you have a gift at this I can see one a
bunch of tournaments I’m gonna come and
support you to have him there to give
him a hug it’s all caught on camera was
the greatest moment of my life there I’m
winning the main event and then I bought
my dad a new Mercedes okay so he was
pretty happy about that
and then and then I met and married my
wife who’s a doctor
and so my dad who has a PhD who has a JD
who has an MBA and his into education
was pretty happy so loved my wife but
went to the University of Chicago so you
know all of a sudden all is forgiven I
can be a professional poker player
was there a sit-down with him just you
and your dad not not the winning part
I’m talking like a drive home you’re
staying at the hotel together you’re at
the house so I had told all my friends
that I was gonna win it and I told them
that I’m at 600 you need one car right
nine I told all my friends I’m gonna win
it and I’m gonna fly them all home on a
private jet but this is 1980 I didn’t
know what a private jet looked like you
know what I mean like I mean I’m a poker
player that’s never had a lot of money
but I told all my friends you know I
like to do things in style hang around
after I went to fly you home on a
private jet so for dinner that night we
went to the bacchanal at Caesar’s Palace
super and I spent 2,000 at dinner which
is a lot in 89 that’s the max I could
spend pretty much Dom Perignon
everything and my father post post post
we host yeah and my father’s like this
is awesome he’s like but you should save
the money for the jet and so I kind of
decided I would for an hour but
meanwhile they were looking into it the
Horseshoe Casino was looking into the
jet and I decided I have to I have to
fly home on the private jet but my dad
flew home commercial unfortunately but
everybody else was on the jet sweep
bought into the idea he bought in to do
the jet hey he was kind of saying I mean
come on you know my dad my dad his whole
life he grew up with some money but it
wasn’t like he was wealthy and so for
him the idea of spending $6,500 on a jet
you know he’s like don’t do it don’t do
it they’ll understand but of course I
did it and but unfortunately my dad
wasn’t on the jet he flew home earlier
that morning right took a red-eye home I
guess so the discussion my dad and I had
had already been settled by them and the
discussion was I want to be a freshman a
poker player
and he fought like hell against that
steel or be it did not work okay yes
before that and it took years of us
butting heads before he agreed to
actually go to the tournament but now
that he went to the tournament and he
saw me win the main event the World
Series of Poker Main
that there was never any question about
what I was gonna do for a living I’ve
bought him a new Mercedes and you know
and then I started you know but it’s not
straight up in my profession you’re
gonna have bad times so what I always
expend so obviously that’s a victory
what happens that what happens well then
you get cocky and you think you’re
better than you are and I started
playing in some high stakes cash games
that I wasn’t great at so I’d play seven
card stud for a lot of money I’d play
and so I started losing money the smart
thing that I did is I paid cash for a
penthouse condominium $200,000 I own my
cars outright and I paid my taxes early
I put away money to pay taxes but so
then when I lost like two or three
hundred thousand straight it basically
put me I was basically cash broke so I
was cash broke yes but I had a $200,000
condo that I could sell the next day I
had the cars and at that point I kind of
I’ve always been smart financially and
was able to kind of keep myself in a
position where you know I didn’t go and
borrow a bunch of money you know and so
I struggled and I played within my means
so my bankroll was suddenly this big
after being as big as this room my
bankroll was this big big pot coming
here I have a good hand three nines I
have a good hand man so how did you
emotion I was always conservative I was
always fiscally concerned is that
because of what father and mother taught
you is that just you you were you were
fiscally I just needed I knew that
people were gonna have up and downs
finance I mean I knew that there were
already stats out in the 80s talking
about the average millionaire had been
up to a million and broke ten times so
when I thought of myself as being
average you know why that is
most people are great at making money
but making it holding it are two
different skills that’s right and so I
knew this already and so I was very
conservative with my money I would go
and play very small stakes games and I
would drive for hours to play small
stakes games in Michigan for a couple of
years just to be able to pay my bills
that was smart you know not ball
but smart could I have gone and sold
everything or could I have gone and
barreled a couple hundred thousand
dollars in my house and started playing
big games of course I could but I wasn’t
gonna do that I was gonna maintain the
cash I had I was gonna maintain the net
worth I had until I figured it out
and so that was really smart but it
wasn’t easy it was a struggle for me ah
yes and living in a penthouse
condominium in Madison Wisconsin yes I’m
25 years old yes I have an amazing wife
an amazing cars but not a lot of money
but everything was paid for weird spot I
think did you see a lot of guys who were
because this is another part I mean I’ve
seen a lot of guys that were just as
talented and maybe even more talented
than I was coming up in business but
they were terrible with money so they
didn’t give themselves the life span to
be able to have the momentum catch up
because you know sometimes you get one
victory and you say maybe I can hang
with these guys but one doesn’t put you
into history books I know you’re a big
history books guy did you see some guys
that you said that could be as good as
me if not better than me but he doesn’t
manage his finances his habits properly
I don’t think this guy’s gonna last you
think that was an edge of yours that you
had maybe maybe I’m delusional but I
thought I was the best Hold’em player I
didn’t think anybody was in my category
as far as No Limit Hold’em tournaments
Phil do you believe that at 24 yeah well
I I proved it I mean I was winning more
no limit hold’em tournaments from the
time I was 23 at the time I was 2 today
I’ve had a bigger win percentage than
almost than anybody in history there’s a
few guys now that they talk about that
are great but there were a few guys 10
years ago and 20 years ago so when it
came to no limit hold him I thought I
was great but there were other games I
mean most of the most of the private
cash games were made up of lowball or 7
card stud those games I was not great at
and I was playing high stakes in those
games yes I saw talented people your
question is money management that’s the
part yes money management is number one
okay why is it number one because if you
can’t pay your bills you’re gonna be
miserable you can’t pay your bills
you’re gonna get phone calls you’re
gonna like I don’t know we’ve always
been able to kind of squeak
in the roughest times but I saw friends
they were getting phone calls because
they couldn’t pay their bills they’re
getting evicted all of this BS and all
they had to do when they had $100,000 in
cash is make sure that like 30 of it was
untouched and they didn’t have to worry
about bills for a year or two right but
they couldn’t do that instead they’d
fire it all at the table on a bad night
and so you have money management and you
have poker talent okay to me there are
two components of a pure mean you have
this pyramid money management’s more
important than poker Talent
because I can show you a player with
great money management that has 50% of
the skill level super comfortable life
they pay their bills on time they’re not
flashy they don’t win big tournaments
they just life is easy though you know
what I’m saying and then I can show you
a guy with extreme talent okay but no
money management skills and his life is
I have a million dollars in cash I’m a
ball or I’m out of the clubs or whatever
then somehow blow it all in like three
days for no reason right you’ve seen
this oh yeah and then they borrow money
so there’s this borrow system in poker
where you loan people money I never
engaged in the borrow system but very
easy for me to borrow money but I always
told myself if you start borrowing from
a hundred different people you’re gonna
have to loan those hundred different
people and you’re gonna figure it out
fill which means at the end of time
you’re gonna have a hundred people that
owe you money
mm-hmm because they’re just gonna all
crash and burn so let’s not engage in
this system let’s do it the hard way I
remember walking into a casino in 2004
poker was huge at the Commerce Casino I
walked into that room is this money
maker you know for his money maker right
is it money makers after a money maker
done I think but actually you might be
right it might be Oh for call it Oh five
I’m walking into this casino at the
Commerce and the big games over here and
the second big games here and there’s
two of those and the third big games
over here and when I walk in a poker
room everybody looks at me all right
because I’ve won all the titles I’m
flamboyant all the stuff whatever
there’s a little charisma and I walk in
and I had to swallow my pride I’m gonna
sit down in the fifth biggest game in
the room I’m worth a million dollars
okay and but it’s all in safe
investments but I’m walking down I’m
sitting in the fifth biggest game in the
room and everybody’s watching me wall
how do you do that how did you know the
cried and to do that because it was for
my wife and kids because I wanted to be
able to pay my bills on time and it was
proper for me to be playing at this
limit at this time well and I also knew
that ten years later 20 years later I’ll
be in the biggest game in the world
anyway but I’m gonna do it the right way
not the wrong way half of the guys in
the biggest game are playing other
people’s money half are broke
you know what I’m saying you look at
those games and I could tell you each
one of those guys and I was in better
shape than almost all of them but I’m
swallowing my proud and everybody’s like
wow look at Phillies playing in the
fifth biggest game in the room were they
talking behind your back weird insane
spreading rumors he’s really broke you
don’t know what’s he’s going hoarse
how did how you mentally and emotionally
taking that are you talking smack back
at him no I mean I talking behind my
back no bracelets I’m the guy with all
the bracelets right in all four you have
are you have you already been 7f
everything like by 2005 I was some
bracelet ly all-time leader okay o fibro
products but I’m the guy with all the
bracelets yes right I’m the guy that’s
like flashy
I’m the controversial guy right so
walking into those situations you know I
mean it but but I remember swallowing
the pride I remember driving around a
like a shit like this I mean I don’t
converse in there many times so I know
who goes to commerce that’s the commerce
you know you would have Morris chest not
every once in a while you would have
been F you know he would be there maybe
a couple time but a lot of the guys
would was played there for 15 years yeah
I drove around a minivan with like a
Charizard painting on the side and I did
that for my ego I said if you can drive
this car around
alright you have no ego it was all about
trying to control my ego so let’s talk
about that part so because a lot of
times like I remember myself is this
going to you I get out of the military
I’ve got work at Bally’s I get recruited
a way to go other sales hey won’t you
come to real estate
come do this so they recruit me at that
time to start selling websites it’s 1999
everybody wants to buy a website you
know five you know fifteen hundred bucks
so I started doing that and all of a
sudden I’m making twenty grand I’m doing
good I’m this rock star in in that game
and I’m the closing speaker on yachts in
Newport Beach I’m in Vegas twenty six
times a year I’m partying like you
wouldn’t believe I’m just running
through clubs and all this stuff and
then all of a sudden I lose everything
company shuts down it’s it’s a mess it’s
not a nice situation it’s not a nice
situation and I come back so I have to
go back to Bally’s and ask my boss for a
job and he doesn’t give me back my
manager job he gives me the morning
manager job which means you’re opening
the gym at four o’clock in the morning
so no one buys memberships before noon
that’s the position I have okay Phil can
you bring your wife at six in the
morning and by membership when’s the
last time you brought a membership Ryan
I thinking the best things that happen
there for me is I learned a lesson I
learned a lesson that you have to make
sure you keep your cash in place you
have to make sure you have your savings
I said the second chance I get I’m gonna
be completely different so second time
around I get into financial industry
Morgan Stanley trance all that stuff and
I started making money I saw everybody
bind a nice cars tour I was driving a
Ford Focus and had you know a three
hundred thousand dollars in a bank and
everybody seemed packed why don’t you
drive a nicer car I said I don’t need to
drive a nicer guy got 300 grand the bank
so when crap hit the fan and oh wait
mortgage crisis I didn’t stress and then
worried a lot of people started
panicking and that giving it so it’s
it’s amazing that you’re in a world
where it’s about gambling and you have
that kind of emotional control to be
able to keep your finances in place
which allows you now have 15 bracelets I
think number two is who Johnny Chan phil
ivey and loyal right they have ten yeah
that’s listen yeah you look at every
other sport it’s based on rings it’s
based on Super Bowls Brady’s got five
you know Montana’s got four Jordans got
six Russell’s got eleven you know all
these
names that you go through all four of
those guys I’ve had a chance to hang out
with too which is fun yeah I want to
hear some of those stories you got 15 of
them and you know these guys are at 10
and you’re saying your goal is to go to
24 I think you just recently won your 15
by the congratulations on that how are
you why are you keeping your motivation
now to say now that I’m the greatest not
I have the most and you look like you’re
40 but you told me your age yesterday
it’s on Wikipedia can’t no one would
guess your age and by the way you want
to know this there when I was going to
meet with them last night we were having
a conversation to eat together last
night at aria me him and Mario good
times that tequila was insane by the way
whatever that brand was it was insane
and everybody’s telling me Pat he’s six
seven I see he’s not six seven I’ve seen
this get play no he’s six seven he is
six seven that’s all I can tell you this
dude is six seven and I’m pretty tall so
where is your fire now to say not me
nowadays you’re no longer the Phil how
many the winning the first one you’re
hanging out with Michael Jordan Elon
Musk all these other guys they know
you’re playing with them you’re hanging
out with them because everybody all the
goats want to be with the ghosts no
matter what space it is where is your
fire to say I want to go get 24 why get
24 so what’s your vision of what you
want to do next it’s interesting because
I mean there’s two things I want to be
known for one is I want to win 24 world
championships
that’s a state of why 24 though 24 just
popped into my mind over nineteen
ninety-three after I won three in one
year I just thought I can get there
[Music]
interesting yeah I believe you
yeah I flopped three 5s by the way
hyperbole real money I will be winning a
lot of money I’ve had straits
dang it yeah you know people ask me
about the motivational thing it’s
interesting up for me like I just I
can’t even explain it except to say that
it’s just my life like my life is
designed that’s what I care about that’s
way back when I had the goal of becoming
the greatest poker player of all time
and in order to achieve that goal I have
to win more bracelets than anybody else
and so that’s been my goal that’s been
my path it’s been it’s been easy for me
to focus on that it’s
easy for me to make that are you going
right everything’s I know in the book
positivity you talk a lot about goals I
know and one of the pages you said so
his yearly goals this is one of them
when three World Series Poker bracelets
went to world poker tournaments make my
autobiography poker Brad hit New York
town bestseller get good time with Kathy
Filipina get good time with best friends
schemata bill and their families sign a
few big contracts walk 10,000 steps a
day finish my book positivity get the
television show load and think screen
lit I will produce and co-stars so do
you every year sit there and say next
year’s goal is a you big goal driven guy
huge goal driven guy and in this book
you know in this book positivity one of
the coals that was in there was that I
finished this book I did finish this
book you like this book I loved holy
robbing so I have Sheryl Sandberg on the
back I saw that ya gave me an amazing
quote and Tony Robbins an amazing quote
Tony Robbins recommends this book to his
classes which isn’t you it’s one thing
for him to say the great stuff that he
said about me on the on the jacket blurb
he recommends this book to his classes
which is amazing for me so he believes
in it it’s a very goal-oriented book but
one of my favorite things I mean it’s
eight chapters it takes seventy minutes
to read one of my favorite things about
this book is the yearly goals write down
your yearly goals and tape them to your
bathroom mirror that’s it that way every
day when you get up in the morning you
brush your teeth you you know you brush
your hair whatever it is guys we’re
pretty quick you know but it’s there and
you see this thing and whether you
acknowledge it or not it doesn’t matter
your mind knows that your goals are
right there concretely written I think
it’s important to have a place to head
you know and I think that the mind is
very powerful and will help you get to
that place and so to me this book is
gonna help millions of people think
bigger achieve more and and head towards
their dream you know this book I mean
you’re always in the right place at the
right time alright to me this is very
simple I talked about this on some other
podcast I’ve done I’ll check
you talked about handling losses I think
that’s the one thing that was
fascinating to me because a lot of times
it’s you know you got to have goals you
got to put in this you got to be driven
you got to do that you got to do this
but you went to one chapter we talked
about entitlement in a way I’ve never
heard anybody explain before you said
you were facing Scottie win right I
don’t know what year it was you were
going for your 7 you’re about to become
the all-time winner and you’re facing
Scottie and you’re the chip leader and
then while this whole thing is going on
all of a sudden internally you started
overthinking whether you deserve this
and and you said I wanna ask you myself
this question and then you lost that
tournament and then you have to come
back and ask why that happen so once you
walk me through well because I want to
hear a little bit more about that time I
had four hundred ninety five thousand
chips in front of me he had 50,000 chips
in front of him I’m playing to take the
all-time bracelet lead it’s kind of a
mindfuck you know and you know that
Doyle Brunson a Johnny Chan are
competing I mean in 2005 we want five
bracelets between the three of us there
was only like 20 events or something and
we’re just we’re playing for all time
history and I know these guys are
warriors and I’m on the precipice of
getting there and all of a sudden I
start freaking out I’m like wait a
minute do I deserve to become the
all-time greatest you’re saying that in
the moment so cracked when you started
saying that what was the next thing that
happened themselves every day the part
people sabotage themselves every day and
I and I saw this first when I saw poker
players in position to change their
lives for the better by winning a
tournament okay or by winning a large
amount of cash and they just kept
blowing it and I’m like why are they
blowing it and I do a little research
well he’s an alcoholic he doesn’t feel
good enough to take that step yet he
mistreats his kids and so I noticed
little things that would hold them back
and so after that moment I spent the
next month I wrote down all the reasons
I deserve to become the all-time
greatest I’m loyal I’ve never cheated on
my wife to this day okay that’s that’s a
debt check that’s a good thing
I’m a very loving father check that’s a
good thing
I give a lot of money to charity check
that’s a good thing I raise
a lot of money for charity fifty-two
million dollars I’ve raised for charity
now check that’s a good thing and so as
I’m looking down this list I’m loyal I’m
honest I’m authentic check check check
check check then the question is why not
me why shouldn’t I become the greatest
of all time and then next time I had
that opportunity boom I wanted and the
time after that boom I want it because I
felt like nothing was gonna hold me back
I didn’t want any excuses you know what
I’m saying we can so I sat down and
wrote that out yeah and so it’s weird
because I’m asked more now about that
chapter about entitlement see I say
entitlement is a good thing and right
now in the modern world people have
arguments that entitlement is not a good
thing that guy’s entitled well yes that
person’s entitled but should they be
entitled that’s the question how about
three ah I think you have a pair of
fives this time I’ll bet eight so the
question is entitlement good or bad
thing and so it’s interesting as I’m
doing some podcasts with Tim Ferriss and
guys like this they’re they’re always
freaked out by my concept of entitlement
and it’s a good thing to key on but if
you want to own a home and don’t do
anything in you’re entitled to you know
benefits from the government you’re
talking about I believe I deserve to win
corrected your time I’m talking about in
my book positivity I’m telling people
clean up their lives clean up your life
so that you’ll feel better about success
clean up your life so you can do great
things I wanted to make sure that I was
worthy of doing great things and so for
the people at home that are watching
this that are getting in their own way
that are holding themselves back you
people out there that are holding
yourselves back find a way to find your
worth find a way to say you know what
why not me and I think that’s an
important thing that I talked about in
my book why not me why shouldn’t I do it
and find all the reasons why you should
rather than focusing on the reasons why
you don’t succeed yeah that chapter the
way was explained was was a tremendous
on how to go about that let me ask you
another question so you go back but when
you when you’re faced off with Johnny
Chan have you already faced off with
anybody at this caliber like have you
played against Doyle have you gone
against Scottie how you played against
some of the guys at that time that were
I had already played against the
greatest players and I’d already played
against Johnny Chan both Johnny Chan was
the greatest player but I had already
faced door and Johnny Chan I had fake
yep and I’d faced Chan the year before
he busted me in the 1988 main event five
or six five raised I’ve tried to bluff
him raise ten yeah no I mean at least
five raise five okay okay looks like you
might be ahead in a big pot here let’s
see
I will check to you Johnny Chan had said
earlier that year an Esquire magazine
and we didn’t have a lot of poker back
then he had said Phil Hellmuth gonna win
the main event once he learns to bring
it in a little bit he’d already said
that in Esquire magazine and everybody
knew that article existed because poker
wasn’t talked about in the mainstream
and so Esquire magazine Johnny chance
talking about me whoa he says I’m gonna
win the main event someday woohoo you
checked yes God dang it that was a good
check if you bet I was gonna raise this
many yellow chips yeah yeah I have a
flush I know you do so you had already
kind of gotten idea to study them and
see did you find it was smaller back
then so when we had you know the four
big tournaments per year I mean yes you
know what yes penis to do so wasn’t like
it’s uh it’d be a hundred and fifty
players three hundred players but you
know who the great players were got it
and when the big tournaments came along
sometimes there’d be only 60 70 players
I knew them all I also knew that I was
the best No Limit Hold’em tournament
player in the world did they know that
they all knew something was going on
because I was winning everything in
sight well you did not just twenty
four-year-old coming up was it like I
don’t want to face this kid I was it was
just in that I was the poker brat but I
respected the people that came before
so you had already been identified as a
poker brat so everyone knew you were too
so your nickname poker brat was given
what year I gave myself that name in
like 2000 but but it was very apt
because whenever I got unlucky we talked
about this earlier in the young view
whenever I got unlucky I was like this
is a reflection of me not being good you
know what I mean like I went back to my
brothers and sisters are somehow beating
me when they’re not supposed to beat me
so let me let me ask you a feel you know
this whole thing when you watch poker
players and and in you know you see the
guys that are playing you know the great
ones you being worried about with 15
bracelets well how much of it is math
obviously math is a big element how much
of it is you reading me
and how much of it is you know playing
against me meaning you playing with my
mind and throwing me off of my element
how much of those three cuz you know
Matusow has a style of playing where he
kind of a screws with the other guy and
they come out with player abuse and
you’re messing with the other guys how
much of it was those three combined
together what would you say well I mean
there’s three elements right there’s
math and game theory okay which is
important but if we’re pure math and
game theory there’s there’s a bunch of
genius kids that studied this on the
internet that would beat me every time
and so they know they’re better at the
math and the game theory parts of the
game theory but they don’t have the
balance you can you can’t teach reading
people you have it or you don’t have it
so these guys the best they can do is
look at it you know when they’re
deciding whether to call or not those
when they look down at their watch if
it’s an odd time they’ll call if it’s an
even time they won’t like weird stuff
like superstitious to other stuff not
superstitious more like I know it’s a
50/50 shot I can’t read this person so
if it’s odd I call if it’s even I fold
you know they do stuff like that which
is elegant and kind of fun right and so
there’s great theories but if you want
to be great at poker you have to be able
to read people you have to look across
the table and know whether someone is
you handle to read them and that can’t
be taught is what you’re saying
you can’t teach reads so what do you
look for
is there anything if if I’m somebody I
soak you feel obviously I can’t read
like you but what are some things you
look for is there a certain elements oh
there you’re looking for body gesture
cuz you know the hotel’s the nose
nostril you know make a lot of money you
can make a living playing poker without
great reading ability but if you want to
be the greatest of the great you have to
be able to read people got it now you
can also influence people right you’re
good at that right so if I if I somehow
if I go like this if I go like this and
I have nothing okay and I put in the
chips exactly like that I put it back
like this my cards are right here I
memorize that motion for later for when
I actually have it because right now
when I go like this people’s minds then
they see me flip over do 7-nothing their
minds are saying they connect with that
whether they know it or not so then
later when I have it when I have aces
I’ll put in the chips exactly the same
way come back exactly like this so I’m
telling their mind
I’m telling their instincts that I have
that I don’t have it even though I have
it and so if they’re following their
intuition I’ve queered their intuition
in my favor you know what I’m saying so
there’s so much you can do at a poker
table if you do too much acting it’s bad
mm-hmm but if you can remember exactly
the way you acted when you were weak in
this case I’ll just call weak versus
strong it’s very interesting so so not
only can you read people you can
influence the way they play as well you
can influence the way they play as well
so is that through your doubt like I’m
playing doubt I don’t know if I have
something man I don’t know but you have
a stronger thing so you kind of throw me
off is that what you is that what you do
you play poker with me every time I have
it all day long I’ll show it to you I
have it I have it I have it I have it I
have it I have it and then when I put in
for Bluffs I won’t show those so your
mind is like I’ll even say things like
I’m Phil Hellmuth I always have it and
slam my card stuff people love that when
I say I’m Phil Hellmuth I always have it
they love that and they remember that
but I do that not only tip for
entertainment and good television I do
it to set their minds so when I’m
bluffing ten hands later okay
they automatically assume I have it I’ll
check check I have a feeling you have it
I don’t but I have a feeling the next
one you’re gonna have it so I can’t let
you have it got it so pro players
amateur players sometimes pro players
don’t like to play amateurs because you
can’t really read them and they’re all
over the place there’s not really a
trend you know it’s almost it’s easier
for you to play against a fellow because
you know his game then playing against a
John Doe first tournament he’s never
done anything he’s a CPA he’s a numbers
guy he’s gonna come in as a bean-counter
he’s gonna be able to get you right this
is it sometimes more difficult to play
against an amateur than a pro sometimes
for me for me it’s all about my reads
it’s all about the day so some days my
reads are just perfect and those that’s
why I have so many bracelets because
I’ll just know weak strong weak strong
weak strong and it’s like I’m dodging
bullets it’s like alright he’s strong I
fold I’m really strong but he’s super
strong I fold giving myself extra live
so that people don’t give themselves you
know what I’m saying and then some days
you just some days you’re not quite as
sharp as you’d like to be 9 how do you
read weakness right off the bat when
somebody sits and they don’t know what
they’re doing how easily do you read it
well is it just gesture how to handle
the chips yes I look at their card for
me it’s a complete picture so we have
this book out called read him and reap
ok that was a I think it was a New York
Times bestseller
we sold tons of copies where we have
specific ways to determine tells when
this guy’s weak this guy’s strong and
you’re one and and but for me I trust my
instincts and when my instincts are on
that I’m pretty pretty tough when my
instincts are off I’m not quite as tough
when your instincts are off is it
because of personal matters that are not
related to the game that’s kind of your
thing
about or even more you’re not in the
game you’re not like imagine you want
you know what I’m ask you like a
baseball yes okay so for one month why
does someone hit the cover off the ball
okay and then the next month they’re in
a slump is there any reason for that
that we know of people have been trying
to solve why their slumps in baseball
forever but to me it’s the same thing in
poker
sometimes I’m hitting the cover off the
ball and sometimes I’m not quite as
sharp as I’d like to be check Chuck ten
hi I got a higher got it got it got it
got it
so that analogy of hitting the cover off
the ball makes a lot of sense to me
versus a slump and so that’s the best I
can determine and there’s just so every
year at the World Series of Poker
someone wins two or three bracelets
every year someone’s super hot there’s
no mathematical reason for that there’s
no rhyme or reason behind that but when
they’re doing it they’re obviously doing
a bunch of stuff right so the year where
I win two bracelets the year why I win
three bracelets it seems like you’re
getting lucky it seems like you see
everything all the small things it seems
like you’re really informed for a lot of
right reasons
these things don’t happen randomly and
so you know that’s that’s what you hope
for is you’re coming into the World
Series of Poker and you hit your peak
and you win two bracelets that’s an
amazing year just winning one bracelet
these days is a nice little
accomplishment for Naha we both have
something this time I’m predicting my
instincts say that I’m supposed to check
this but I’m going to bet it for value
seven I don’t think you’re doing that I
don’t think you do I think you’re
stronger than stronger than you think
yes now I know yours your but if you got
what I think you got you’re on fire
today
and if you go what I think you got you
might win this possible I’m smiling
despite how much is over pot seven seven
eleven fifteen okay I have been on fire
today I will say that not necessarily
this hand I’m out of this one I had a
pair of tons
what’s your kicker eight okay do you
have any beat yeah you had me beat so so
going back to the whole reading people
in the math and you know being able to
push people around and you talked about
earlier with financial discipline and
where you’re at with that you know have
you yourself sat there and said you know
what if what if I got into investments I
know you doubt you’ve done some deals
yourself right you and I talked about
that last night what if you took that
same ability because you’re sitting
there in the boardroom and the boardroom
is the same exact game you know you got
to read who is BS and who’s not who’s a
money guy who’s Bou a fan who is trying
to act like they’re stronger but they’re
not have you thought about making that
shit because there’s a lot of
similarities between what you do the
thing with you that’s different is you
seem to have some kind of control with
the finances which most of the guys in
your world don’t and you seem to stay
away from the bad habits which not a lot
of guys in your world can do that
because when you’re playing you know
poker where are you are at a casino
what’s at a casino I mean anything you
want is at a casino you know you got I’m
not a drug guy but you can but if you
want drugs there you can probably get
drugs from somebody really close by
absolutely they’ll bring alcohol to you
there’s women around it’s very it’s a
very and then add to that the element of
being a celebrity right that’s that that
makes it more difficult right because
you know actresses and models and you
know are suddenly interested in somebody
like me why I’m just a professional
poker player right why would they be
interested in me it’s flattering
I got jacks just so you know I got a
pair of jacks just see the flop yeah I
had five jacks is what I had just
killing it man this is like new tricks
so how do you how do you not let it get
to your head
how do you not let the victors get to it
I mean obviously at 24 years old you
said the first time when you went to
major do get to your head and then it’s
a matter of developing strategies so you
know I talked about it in this book you
know how one thing that was important to
me is people right is this they show the
world how to think more clearly do more
move up all of these great things three
more but then they don’t give you a
strategy for when you get there so it
was important for me to have a chapter
there it’s the one thing that helps me
check ace Jack no it’s Jason the one
thing that helps me is in those
situations is is a chapter from is
another chapter from my book where I
write down I teach people to write down
their blessings okay and put them on
their bathroom mirror now if I’m happy
because of my blessings that’s great if
I’m happy because some model or actress
is after me and it’s flattering even
though I’ve never cheated on my wife I’m
still flattered if that’s what makes me
happy that I’m happy for the wrong
reasons
if I’m at me because I because because
I’m on ESPN all the time or other ego
driven things then that’s not as good as
focusing on the blessing so I’ll just
take a hard look at my bathroom mirror
raise it six more big rays I’ll get rid
of you right now William called big pot
coming let’s do it let’s see it I’ll
a thousand let’s Sammy you you made it
interesting so Annie Queen first-rate
twenty four fold okay
I had a sking one of the biggest hands
ooh turn a lot card I needed a queen
made a king but probably still lost that
was an interesting one
you beat me a big hand finally yeah
finally is the key ward have you said
you know what if I get into the
investment world have you thought about
that yes I have thought about that I’ve
been very lucky mm you have it huh have
a pretty good hand but not as good as
yours
he had a jack I have a good hand but the
last card that came out is is a concern
but I have a good hand if it’s game
money
I’m calling if it’s mine I’m not
crawling so I’m gonna take your hustle
cuz I did have two pair nines and force
yeah you had me I have been on fire I’m
kind of in the mix a lot so I have a
piece of a lot of different companies
that’s been fun one of my friends is you
know shamatha poly Hypatia
yep amazing guy amazing guy Billy who’s
a LAN must best friend bill is the best
angel investor in history and so you
know I just put money into their fund
and they they found they put it in bird
they put a bunch of money in bird and
bird it’s the fastest unicorn in history
they finally start their own fund 350
million and they hit the fastest unicorn
in history these guys are good very
lucky but good so I’ve had some fun you
know being a part of their successes but
could I go and raise could I go and
raise a hundred million dollars from my
friends I think they would give me the
money they trust me they trust my
instincts but it’s another job and I’m
happy you know I mean I know my life is
I would call my life perfect for me it’s
perfect
one thing you say gonna focus on the
bracelet John focus on you comes to the
World Poker Tour well I’m one of the
three commentators it comes to ESPN yeah
I’m one of the three commentators it
comes to being on advisory boards and
that’s a whole fun thing for me to be
involved in is predicting and helping
people decide the future of companies
that’s fun for me I have access my
friends are some of the most famous this
is meant in the world I can go to them
anytime and ask some advice that’s fun
for me I’m raising I’m still doing
events there’s a lot of television I was
filming I did an event with the
Kardashians the other day how was that
was fun for me yeah yeah did you
actually play was it a tournament was it
well the only thing I’d talk about when
it comes to the Kardashians is that we
had a charity poker tournament and I am
seated I also haven’t seen one for
President Clinton for Tiger Woods for
Eva Longoria nothing 9 hi Wow Jack’s
trapping me a little bit yeah you don’t
know me well no I didn’t bite in that at
all I was I didn’t bite I was
disappointed yeah so let me ask you a
technical question so you got four
presidents who would be the best poker
player ready
we got Trump we got Bush W we got Bill
Clinton and we have Obama who be the
best poker to Democrats to Republicans
who wins the game okay at the end times
out of ten ten tournaments they have two
plates only them for who wins the most
so Bill Clinton told me he brought his
own chipset to the White House so he’s a
player we all know that Obama’s a player
yes Obama’s a poker player I was also at
George Bush’s library opening which for
me was that easy how am i there I mean
there were two celebrities there was
governors and like the who’s who somehow
I’m in that room which was fun for me
and we’ve hosted events and and I will
say this about Bush my parents are my
family is very democratic and so you see
the highlight reels of George Bush
talking and making mistakes they’ve
George Bush I met was the most
charismatic smart guy
ever I was just freaked out by it
because you watch him on television you
seem in person I didn’t date night and
day and I was just like what is going on
here Trump actually was on the
microphone was on the television show
when I was playing so I there were three
of us left and he was doing some of the
commentary but he’s not a poker player
so I’d have to give it to Obama because
Obama you know played a lot of Poker
when he was a senator coming up in
Chicago so just by experience I’d give
it to him so who wins second final table
is to him and Bill yeah I mean because
they play they don’t crash Bluff the
best Democrats Republicans have no fear
yeah so that’s interesting to see how
that works out you ever played against
any presidents or no we’re there any
charity tournaments with anybody no
you’ve done some some stuff yourself
Bill Clinton’s I’ve ever seen Clinton’s
charity tournament three times raised
five million or something in three times
so he didn’t play but and so I’ve met
Bush at his opening we had a really nice
dialogue and they put us on the front
page of which was weird for me they put
us on the front page of the London Times
and the picture was too grainy to use
which they were supposed to be on the
front page the here’s Phil help me with
the guy that outlawed poker and costing
millions of dollars only the London
newspapers could do that so let me ask I
asked Kevin Hart I says he give me the
top five comedians of all time okay and
he gave this list who would you say are
the top five poker players of all time
you played against these guys taking my
name out of it taking your name out of
it I mean Johnny Chan’s a great player
to this day and like he makes a lot of
money playing Doyle Brunson you know he
just retired from poker but Doyle played
poker at the highest level until he was
88 years old he was making money last
month against the young guns at age 88
you know Danny on the grind when it
comes to tournaments is a great player
great player so there are some young
I’m coming guys but you can’t quite pull
the trigger and call them the greatest
time someone’s 25 yeah you don’t know
what they’re gonna do are they even
gonna continue display the game you know
what I mean who’s the dumb guy you
played against a Don what’s-his-name Don
or Dan you know what I’m talking about
the Internet young man jungle man damn
yes the internet gotta tell so cocky
he’s also dougie oak it’s pretty cocky
he’s pretty good
jungle man Dan he’s he’s pretty good
phaidor Holtz’s as a young guy that’s
one a lot there’s a couple of other
young guys you know if they continue on
their trajectory they’ll be great but
you asked me kind of the greatest
difficulty I won’t go in there yeah
so I’m going with Doyle Johnny Chan Phil
Ivey you put Phil as a top five yes cuz
Phil Ivy’s been there long enough he’s
also won ton bracelets he also wins a
lot of money playing in the high-stakes
cash games how different is that game
Bob within the tournament
different I mean these guys know
medically a lot of them spend their time
in McAllen God you know so they’re
playing high stakes in Macau and now the
Philippines is a hot spot interesting so
they’re they’re playing high-stakes
poker winning and losing $500,000 in one
night you know for me that’s not that’s
not the life I want I don’t want to be
spending my time in far-flung places
playing poker every day you know you
throw it in there like I have a nice
cleaner rocket ace is what I got I got a
set already I think you’re strong
listened no I think I think I am strong
but it depends on how strong a screams
Wow adding the flop tale I’m going to
I’m trying to bully a little bit see if
it works on camera is this guy a rookie
Patrick David entrepreneur guy can can
he bully this other legend guys notice
all the talking all of a sudden this am
I mean I’m a student there’s a huge
learning he has a huge change so yes you
think I’ve got a huge chance so explain
to me what a huge hand is I’m curious
cuz I’m I’m the amateur well I don’t
know Ace King ace Queen or
a nice pair Oh can say that’s nice pair
is what nice burgers are Bob hello it’s
herb oh okay then I do yes I have a nice
pair so I follow this hand I have a nice
pair I’ll give it to him I have a nice
so there’s a lesson there and in there’s
a lesson for you Patrick and when you
started talking and baiting a little bit
then I’m Louise obviously he’s after me
he suddenly wants to engage and
challenge me when he’s ready to go
listen when you have 60 straight hands
of seven to nine I don’t blame you but
I’m still gonna teach you I’m a student
man I’m all yours
so that’s a pretty good list Johnny Chan
Doyle Brunson Phil Ivey and you gotta
put in a grind you in there first like
tournament skills I’d say ten huh
yours worst bad beat of all time that
you still think about or that you
remember well I wouldn’t call it a bet I
just one night I was in Montecarlo and
Phil Ivy’s there and Patrick Antonius is
there another great young player and and
we start playing Chinese poker which is
a game and I lost I ended up playing
Phil Ivey all night long and I lost five
hundred and thirty six thousand dollars
to Phil hmm that was the worst day of my
life and poker you know and then I a
couple days earlier I had busted out of
a tournament in Montecarlo where I had
pocket kings and the other guy had
pocket aces and I picked up pocket
queens twice so it was a very unlucky
kind of stretch for me come on I’ve
always had so far it’s yours sometimes
nights like that occur when something
good happens financially yep so I’d had
I guess I had five million dollars at my
account which was a lot of money back
there was a lot of money for anybody
even today and I really hadn’t had a
chance to digest the money and then I go
and loose 530
6,000 ahem this is immediate this is the
right-of-way couple months later got it
and I was just like so disappointed
myself but I’ll tell you what I did do I
called my wife in Montecarlo and I said
I’m not going to bed I said honey I blew
five hundred thirty-six thousand dollars
today this is what I want you to do I’m
not going to bed until you give two
hundred thousand dollars to charity and
you pay off the mortgage two hundred and
seventy thousand or whatever it was so I
got to a million dollars but I gave two
hundred thousand maybe was a hundred and
fifty thousand to charity and if you’re
gonna be an idiot blow 536 you might as
well give some to charity and you might
as well pay off the mortgage mm-hmm and
I stayed with her on the phone for an
hour until she wrote out every check and
then I went to bed so I kind of turned
it around to like alright if you’re
gonna be stupid
you might as well take care of some
other people you know while you’re at it
how do you how do you handle tilt how do
you handle not going through you know
tilt cuz you see that all the time you
see guys who are on a bad beat and then
they go aggressive and double again and
double them all in all in again and then
they lose how do you like in that moment
are you aware you’re about to tell
there’s a hard thing and and you know
and obviously my nickname’s poker brat
so I tilt sometimes emotionally and I’m
like I can’t believe it you go look at
some of the views I have tens of
millions
I’ll see you yes it’s just you just have
to type in Phil Hellmuth blow that’s it
and some of those have 18 million views
26 million views of me just going crazy
and losing it and those times I mean I
just wish I could handle myself better
but again it goes back to me being the
poker brat me understanding I’m the best
player in the world and I played this
hand so well I didn’t deserve to lose
you know my brother rolling double sixes
and double fives to beat me at
backgammon and me going crazy that’s
what comes out you know and what I
should do is just say I shouldn’t be
able to handle it better and say of
course you were a big favorite because
you’re Phil but instead I’m like I can’t
believe he did that bub above above
above above a you know I t’s draymond
Green about that because check Queen
so draymond green you know have you
watched him when he loses it on the
court horse it’s great television
of course he’s walking around the court
nobody can stop him but other than your
people trying to hold them back and I’m
like that’s exactly me it cost them one
championship by the way well I’m not
gonna say that but I’ll just say that
I’ll just say that him losing it is very
similar I look at him like that’s me
yeah you know in the exact same spot
just unable to control himself for a
minute or two and then all the sudden
control comes do you think like in that
moment like I think it’s great
television when he loses it yeah I think
it’s great television when I lose it no
I’m not talking great television look
what I’m saying with you you know how
sometimes you sit with somebody and they
say you’re a hothead you know you’re you
got a temper you know you’re so
competitive you’re so fierce
you gotta tone yourself down you get you
at home you gotta bring but you got to
bring it down you can’t be like this all
the time you are aware you’re not 22
anymore so when that happens to you in
your 40s 50s and you’re going through it
have you accepted yourself that’s how I
am but I’m never gonna get past the
point where I’m gonna lose X Y Z like
what are you telling yourself in that
moment you get better and better you get
better and better with it if you would
have saw me in the 1990s I was like that
every day
now I’m like that every fifth day or
something so you just get better and
smarter I mean my wife and I you know we
spend a lot of time together in therapy
and it’s just amazing for me it’s the
best couples therapy we’re in there she
can tell me you did this wrong you do
that wrong right and I can defend myself
or say you’re right but because my wife
and I have been doing couples therapy
for 20 years 20 years 20 years as well
and we’ll go we’ll go five hours six
hours a month and because it’s where we
can be supposed each other and we just
get better and smarter and better and
smarter and better and then you find
this this is your primary relationship
my primary relationship gets better and
better and better
well guess what every other relationship
and so to me that’s important and then
you you get better and better there are
years I think it was 2007 where I put in
like a ton of money with Kings and the
young Pro had Jack’s and he flopped the
jack and he had a jack on the river and
everybody was looking you could a pin
could drop they’re waiting for the Phil
Hellmuth blow up and I smiled and I
walked away and I said I guess that’s to
myself I thought I guess that’s why I’m
the best player in the world this guys
supposed to be really good he put it
away too much money with Jack’s that’s
why I’m me and that hole until that
whole month
I was super calm and I had a great World
Series of Poker a bunch of deep finishes
it’s probably good for me to be come
more often and I’m working on it we’re
gonna say that it’s probably better
probably better for me to be you know
you had a big blowup like last month
right was the last month what was it
when one day you know everybody was
saying I can’t believe you went off and
you were just what the you fully went
off right now there’s no player amuse
you did it out of position you know
what’s going on here all these articles
was written about that blow-up of yours
you know do you think because you are
Phil Hellmuth you’re forgiven well you
know sometime Michael Jordan he would
get to take that you know that the fouls
that nobody else is gonna get he would
get it and then as a LeBron is coming
ups like how come you guys are not
calling the fan son becoming a Jordan
car now they call it on everybody if you
touch LeBron you think you have a little
bit because you’re entitled as being the
goat so they gotta let you get away with
that because the television needs it as
well well so that’s interesting because
for like months and months and months
people come up to me and they say I love
random people on the street I love you
I’m like what is going on here love
really you know I mean I keep hearing
that and so that way but I took that in
a little bit too much maybe so now the
incident you’re talking about four
minutes left on day two of the main
event and four minutes left and we’re
all tired and exhausted excuse and this
guy’s been beating me all day excuse and
he a fireman from
Massachusetts super nice guy we had a
really good day together and I Bettany
moves in and I just starts swearing and
going off but there was a third person
who thought so I’m at fault I don’t
think anything of it until I start
seeing I I’m going to bed at 1:00 in the
morning 2:00 in the morning and this
thread starts about how out of line I
was and I’m like oh my god this is gonna
be big and there’s video evidence and
the tournament directors didn’t give me
a penalty didn’t give you a penalty
right which may or may not I deserved a
penalty didn’t matter I was gonna you
know it’s a 20 minute penalty
I didn’t the penalty wouldn’t didn’t
matter except the principle of whether
they gave me a fee or not and maybe
they’re right maybe I was supposed to
get a penalty but anyway because I acted
up the theory was this guy called
instead of folded I think this guy was
calling anyway and I think if he didn’t
call I was gonna call but it doesn’t
matter there’s a valid argument for me
losing it out of turn okay and so I bust
the next day in the main event Ace King
against ace 9 the last card is a 9 but
it’s live on ESPN and it’s being shown
into a casino at the Bellagio where
there’s a thousand people playing it’s
being shown at the Wynn where there’s a
thousand people playing and when the
nine comes everybody starts cheering
Phil’s busted and I when I read that at
3 in the morning
I almost started crying I’m like oh my
god everybody’s against me you know from
hearing love every day to 500 negative
tweets about how out of line I was all
this crazy shit and I’m and I’m reading
this at 3 in the morning that these two
rooms cheered and I’m like ah and this
is hurting it’s like painful and I’m
like oh my god I must have been way way
way out of line on this one so I said
alright how do I solve this and I said
here’s what I’ll do I will give the guy
James Campbell a $10,000 buy-in for next
year which everybody would say was above
and beyond the call of duty
but maybe the right to I think it’s the
right thing to do so I announced I’m
gonna buy him in the next year so I went
from the first time in my life
200 negative tweets I announced on
buying him in to the main event next
year I’m putting up $10,000 okay and all
of a sudden 500 positive tweets so the
worst day of my life
tweets wise and people rooting against
me the very next day I got 500 positive
Wow everybody’s crazy they’re like yes
phil was out of line but he manned up
and he bought him in all the great
players that had weighed in but now I’m
like now I’m fighting on social media in
the past I didn’t fight ok and I’m gonna
fight it and two guys that were
particularly out of line they were just
joining in on the piyo who attacked both
of them immediately after announcing
this I threw in the attack so I attacked
two guys who were out of line but
everybody else I let go and then the
weird thing was so after having 500
positive tweets and all kinds of
positive press and all these interviews
about this stuff then three days later I
want a bracelet and I had 3,000 positive
tweets so after the worst day of my life
three social media wise two or three
hundred negative tweets it went from one
day later 500 positive tweets to three
late days later 3,000 positive tweets
and it’s just like it’s just so fickle
the way things can change so was I out
of line in that moment against that guy
yes the reason why is because when he
raised me I reacted too quickly
I should have inwardly said fuck and
just shut up and waited for this guy to
act but instead I outwardly did it and
so it’s weird the very thing that made
me famous the very thing that people
love to watch on television the ratings
are always much higher when I’m on
television sometimes huge difference in
ratings when I’m on television people
are waiting for me to go off and lose it
in those moments and so everybody’s
secretly laughing at that kinda like god
this guy what’s wrong with them but we
love it because we care too we hate
losing that very thing backfired against
me cuz I went a little bit too far hmm
but then to like have the response but I
made up for it and it’s the first time
you don’t know about
is that is that uh is that something
going on there like well are you are you
like that’s restraint I mean the
straight and luyties to over money and
you don’t look happy
yes so okay well I’m gonna say I’m ahead
I’m gonna fault okay so I had fives with
a queen a good hand so let me ask you
there was a part in a book where you
talked about something that was it
happens in business all the time and
that’s betrayal right the whole concept
of betrayal you have this guy I don’t
know what’s the terminology guys using
poker where you fund me and I go play
and we do chop chop on whatever profits
I’m making I’m a pretty good player so
I’m working for you a lot of times you’d
go to commerce and they’d be these guys
with money and you know they’re handling
somebody else’s money and they’re
playing blackjack
because commerce allows you to be the
dealer I’ve seen that so impoetant
concept applies you give this one guy
apparently $28,000 and in a span of four
hands he loses the $28,000 and you’re
saying how did this thing captain so
maybe walk walk us through that
so this is from my book positivity it’s
a chapter hate hurts you which I think
could have the biggest impact if I’m
gonna help the world they hate heard she
was gonna be my favorite so this guy I
had twenty there was twenty eight
thousand dollars on a website now
understand I had been staking him I’d
been sending him a check to feed his
family very famous player never revealed
his name ever and he so there’s twenty
eight thousand dollars fourteen is his
fourteen thousand is his money fourteen
is mine and I get a phone call on a
Monday night and it’s the site ultimate
that and they say they say this guy just
lost twenty eight thousand dollars I say
I know who it is and they say but wait
in three hands now it was impossible to
lose more than three thousand dollars if
you ran as bad as you could imagine it
was a limit game the most you could lose
was maybe three thousand dollars and I’m
like twenty eight thousand and three
hands well because they just raised back
and forth raised back and forth until
all the money was in and then one of the
guys folded
check then one of the guys folded okay
so I’m like oh my god
tell me more and I know who the guy is
and I’m like this guy just robbed
$28,000 I talked to the people at the
said I said can you save the money they
said no it’s already been withdrawn from
the site the guy just stole $14,000 from
me and I’m so bummed out you know and I
call one of my friends up my friends
like fly him you have all the evidence I
call my other friend up fry em you have
all the evidence I could have pressed
the button send an email off and all of
it would have been public in this guy
would have his reputation would have
gone like this okay and instead I
thought I’d been studying Buddhism I
thought all right let me think about
this
after two hours I’m like wait a minute
you have the perfect life Phil you live
in an amazing house you have the perfect
wife you have two great kids you have
your health you have everything all
right
you do everything aboveboard you could
throw mud at him you know and he doesn’t
have anything to throw back but do you
really want to go down that path and
after three hours I said to my wife I
said honey I said this is what we’re
gonna go to the most expensive
restaurant that we can find and we’re
gonna buy a bottle of Chateau de Kem for
$500 we’re gonna celebrate our lives I’m
gonna forgive this guy I’m gonna forgive
him I’m gonna tell me owes me $14,000 I
talked to him on the phone he’s crying
you know I called up the site and I said
seal this we’re done with it
I don’t want it going public don’t tell
anybody this I know he’s a famous guy
but don’t tell anybody the site seals it
I called my friend up and I said listen
I don’t want you guys to ever talk about
this if you do I’m gonna be really
bummed out and we’re not gonna be
friends anymore
because um a guy that forgives and your
hatred of this person although natural
and normal I don’t want to be I don’t
want that called into play ever so I
can’t have either one of you guys
talking about this ever so they agree
not to talk
about it this was a Friday I mean a
Monday on Friday I find myself on the
East Coast now I live in California on
the East Coast I walk up to the guy in
the hallway and this is a nice way I
like to think about life if I walk
through a hallway of life and any one
person comes at me I will never turn
right or left because I’ve forgiven
everybody that slighted me and I don’t
hate anybody in life most people will
turn right or left if a certain person
comes not me and so you know the
metaphor and the reality is I walk right
up to the guy shook his hand he’s crying
again he’s like oh my god he’s like I
can’t believe he didn’t tell anybody you
saved my life and I’m like you owe me
$14,000 I shook his hand it was not easy
to shake his hand I’m not saying it felt
good but I shook his hand chose to
forgive him okay fast forward another so
the very next day we’re playing in a ten
thousand dollar buying tournament World
Poker Tour at Foxwoods if I had released
what I’d released about him every player
in that room comes up and asked me about
it individually
did this guy really do this so I’m
spending all this time throwing mud at
somebody else but instead I’m focusing
on the tournament I make it past day one
day two day three and all of a sudden at
the final table of this tournament now I
finish third but the interesting thing
to me is this I cashed for two hundred
and eighty thousand exactly ten times
and it’s like it was a sign forgiveness
is the way to go two hundred and eighty
thousand dollars I cashed for exactly
ten times you know and I guarantee you
if I had thrown the mud at this guy
there’s no way I’m gonna make it I’m
gonna spend all my energy telling the
truth about him I’m gonna spend all my
energy but instead forgiveness led to a
10x hit two hundred and eighty thousand
dollars and I said all right that’s the
way I’m going the rest of my life and so
I invented this three step process for
forgiveness I looked it up I couldn’t
find it anywhere on the internet some of
it I learned from the Lama Surya das but
a lot of it’s me step one for forgiving
somebody and it’s all in this book
positivity step one I think
about that person that you hate the most
so your people at home
visualize the person you hate the most
right now take 10 seconds you know who
that person is
okay step 1 imagine what they did to you
and why they did it do they have a good
reason most times there’s not a good
reason okay but try to put yourself in
their shoes number one okay step two try
to imagine something good about that
person are they a family man maybe they
completely screw everybody in life but
maybe they’re a family person maybe
you’re the only person that they’ve ever
slighted is there something good are
they a family person are they loyal I
mean do they give a lot of money to
charity can you find one good thing
about this person or maybe three or four
good things step 3 go to your go to go
to your house when there’s nobody in it
it’s important nobody’s in it or if
there is somebody there you tell your
wife honey I need 40 minutes you can’t
come upstairs I’m gonna deepen a
meditation go to your bed
lie down in your bed and close your eyes
and visualize the person you hate okay
and start sending them love it’s gonna
feel super weird super counterintuitive
you’re gonna be like what is this Ike
Ike but you’re sending this person love
love love love love and what I’m doing
that I can’t help but think of the
people that I actually love and I send
them love as well okay but now you’re
sending this person love I guarantee you
and you spend a half an hour doing this
the next time you see this person just
gonna be a totally different interaction
I’ve done this in three cases and when I
ran into that person all three times
it’s like they knew I’d sent them love
so maybe if you’re scientists you say
well there’s no reason that that
actually happened but if you’re a
scientist you might say well you you
looked at the person differently than
you’ve ever looked at them and they
noticed it that’s science you look at
them in a more forgiving nice way don’t
immediately attack them right that’s
science maybe they pick up on that but
the interaction is always different and
it’s just weird to me but I’ve used this
concept like I say at least three or
four times where I really needed to use
it and so
what’s happening your hate is
disappearing the people that you hate
the most your hate is gone what’s gonna
fill that void of you hating love right
or something else other than hate yep
and so to me this is a huge huge huge
lesson that I’ve taught a lot of my
friends and they just have more time for
positivity how old were you more time to
do great things
how old were you when you experienced
this 40 years old 40 years old Wow
so there’s not one person in this world
that I hate or even dislike because all
I have to do is do this three-step
process which really takes an hour to do
it twice and all of a sudden I don’t
hate that person this is one of the
hardest things to do you know you this
is by far one of the hardest things to
do in life and in business is
forgiveness no matter what books you
read in any religion whether CS Lewis
write in his book and he says the
toughest things to do is forgiveness and
you you gave the formula to it so you
know one or one of the things that will
says we’re wrapping up here I interview
a lot of people I don’t endorse a lot of
people’s books I say go buy their books
but I don’t endorse a lot of people’s
books and say I say here’s a great book
you can go what if you followed by a
tell me you know I’ll tell them this is
the book go buy the book but I don’t say
it’s a phenomenal book this book I was
flying out here to our conference Las
Vegas we had 5,000 people here at the
Venetian okay
we had Kevin Hart as one the performance
and good friend of mine Nick vucic was
here another guy named Joe Jordan was a
legend in the industry I read on the
flight I’m just sitting on like the rent
of my wife’s talking to me I’m like baby
you’re interrupting me babe I’m really
into this book and she keeps saying I’m
Blake babe read this part they read this
part in our marketing director meeting
which is our broker meeting okay in all
marketing he was in a meeting in our
marketing director meeting I reference
to stories from your book in all
marketing director meeting that only
happens if a book has an impact guys I’m
telling you right now this book smaller
the book nothing crazy about it
positivity I highly recommend you go buy
this book and read this book it is very
difficult to do the things he talks
about
here but it opens up to so many other
opportunities that can come to you if
you can go the entitlement positivity in
time and feeling like you belong there
the concept of forgiveness to hate you
know when you have somebody that betrays
you and there’s a few other things I
don’t want to say because I want you to
go read it yourself but I actually
endorse this book so I suggest you go by
this book positivity my man phenomenal
book Mario let’s put a link below that
they can go to the bitly for them to see
it so you can go down there and buy the
book we’ll put the link straight to it
and aside from that I mean obviously
this time if we look at the chips he
kicked my ass okay and and maybe maybe
we’re gonna do this another time and the
follow up the next game we do maybe
we’ll do real money and we’ll see how
this book takes seventy minutes to read
yeah this is my this is this I’ve been
meaning to write this book since 2000
okay and it’s it’s been on my mind my
autobiography came out in August last
year six or seven or eight years between
books I couldn’t wait
within six months this book was out
February 8th of this year because this
is the book where I think and I told my
wife for the first time in my life I
said honey if something happens to me on
an airplane or something weird happens
you have the responsibility to finish
this book I kept her on all the emails I
said this is important for the world
because I can leave a legacy and help
millions of people think bigger the
truths that I’ve learned after searching
so hard all these years are in this book
if something happens to me you need to
make sure you finish the book and she’s
like okay honey I said I think I’m gonna
be alright but I mean I need to get this
out it’s that important to me and by the
way here’s the one thing there’s guys
that go out there and pitch books
because they need to make money he
doesn’t need to make money
oh you don’t make money writing books
that’s what can I can tell you for a
fact you know you’re gonna make you know
some money but you know he plays one
game
he’s gonna make money Tenex than selling
these books the message is that powerful
I would suggest you divide until other
people also to go buy it as well but
Phil brother this has been a blast I
look forward to the next time we have a
sit-down like I said maybe the next time
gonna be some real money how I how I
match up against you with real money
rather than this kind of money again
thanks for your time in appreciate you
by the way if you haven’t subscribed
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send a message to fill out of what you
took away today he actually you heard
today that he does Twitter so he does
respond back if you have anything you
took away from the message here today
Phil what’s your handle on Twitter yeah
Phil underscore Hellmuth on Twitter and
I’m being the greatest I know it’s
cocking being the greatest his Instagram
is being the greatest by the way that’s
the name being literally is not being
cerca it’s called being the greatest but
sentiments we tagged me let us somewhere
you took away from this interview take
man oh man all right what do you get
Queen hi Queen how you got it oh you
tried to blow me gobble you can’t miss me oh my queen hi
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