Laws of Human Nature Dissected by Robert Greene

we’re living in times where people have
never been more self-obsessed but I
think that the source of most of the
pain that people feel in their life why
they hit a wall why they can’t get any
further in life is because they don’t
understand people when we read a book
like yours you’re reading getting your
saying yeah that other person’s like
this he’s talking about them these evil
people out there and then all of a
sudden BAM you hit me in the face then
you say I’m talking about you so what’s
the difference in your mind between a
meal on my skin – Jeff Bezos I think
he’s someone who’s a little bit out of
control there’s no one more dangerous
than than a person who has no self
awareness they can’t see who they are do
you think we almost need somebody else
who knows us very well to give us their
feedback with us willing to take it well
it’s a question of both it’s a great
question so today I’m sitting with a
good friend of mine Robert Greene you’ve
probably read some of his books if you
haven’t heard of his books forty laws of
power art of seduction mastery 50th law
33 strategies award and now
now the book he’s been working on for
years that we’ve been looking forward to
he sent me a copy in advance I didn’t
just read it if you look at what this
book looks like I shredded this book it
looks like a five-year-old book this is
this is the guy’s books I study I don’t
read his books I study his books it’s
called the laws of human nature and
we’re gonna get into it today really
really deep into this book hopefully if
you were here five minutes before us
doing this we just had a 45 minute
banter it was incredible maybe put some
glimpse of it into a but Robert thank
you so much for joining us you have a
passion it’s good to have you back it’s
good to have you back so loss of human
nature you know I read your book and one
of the things I like about the way you
you started a book is the fact that you
know we all think when we read a book
like yours as you’re going through it
you’re reading and you’re saying yeah
that other person’s like this oh no this
other person’s like that he’s talking
about her he’s talking about him he’s
talking about them these evil people out
there and then all of a sudden BAM you
hit me in the face and you say I’m
talking about you okay so you’re saying
they’re saying oh my gosh like you
we think we are so much more polish
superior and smarter and intelligent and
we really are and then you challenge
that perspective and you completely give
a spin to it so what inspired you to
want to write a book the laws of human
nature
well you know each of my books kind of
comes at a historical moment so the 48
laws of power was at a moment where I
think people were being really
hypocritical about power there were a
lot of self-help books out there that
were so soft and gentle and like
everything is sort of pollyannish about
power and you just need to be positive
and have an open attitude and be nice to
people and you’ll get ahead and it
really pissed me off because my
experiences in Hollywood it elsewhere
and in in in all the different jobs I’ve
had is that’s not what the world is like
so I felt angry and when I’m angry I
write a book and so mastery I was really
angry because I thought people don’t
know how to make things anymore
they’re so techno obsessed they’re so
into their algorithms they’re so think
they can get anything easily or quickly
and we’re gonna find ourselves in a
world where bridges are gonna fall apart
people don’t know how to design things
or make things or write a book anymore
and I was really worried about it so I
wrote I was angry so I wrote mastery so
the laws of human nature I think we’ve
lost a sense of psychology of what
really motivates people I think people
were living in times where people have
never been more self-obsessed so more
self-absorbed for whatever reasons
they’re maybe a little bit social media
plays a huge role in that and so people
are kind of locked into their own little
world you may not realize this but I
think that the source of most of the
pain that people feel in their life the
source of most of their failures in life
why they hit a wall why they can’t get
any further in life is because they
don’t understand people they don’t
understand what motivates they can’t get
inside the mind of the other person
they’re always thinking of themselves
and because of that they’re they don’t
have the ability to persuade or
influence people to get them to move in
the direction
they want their relationships with
people are very thin and brittle there’s
no real deep empathic connection
specifically to today’s times as which
was yes got it it’s getting worse and
worse out there but also a lack of a
self-awareness as you were pointing out
in the beginning everyone thinks it’s
the other person that’s narcissistic or
aggressive or is envious or has a dark
side or is repressed or is short side
not me
no so a lack of a self-awareness and the
lack of what really motivates people and
I encounter it all the time I do a lot
of consulting with very high-powered
people in business in politics all over
the world you would go to the Middle
East for a month because somebody was
hiring you to help him out with
decisions they were making yeah and I
was always shocked at how they could be
so smart about some things but be
absolutely ignorant about people like
they hired somebody who ended up being
the partner who stole the company as if
a person like that doesn’t leave traces
behind them in their past and they were
going to do that you know on and on and
on I could give you a hundred different
stories at the same thing so I’m always
shocked at how people don’t have a sense
of the psychology of the people they’re
dealing with they don’t know how to
judge people’s character they’re basing
their opinions of people on their
appearance whether someone’s charming or
good-looking or articulate and they’re
not looking behind this behind the
surface behind the mask so that anger
kind of fueled this book and was sort of
one of the main reasons I I’m hoping you
get angry every three years that’s what
I’m hoping hopefully three years when
are you getting angry again to keep
writing books for the next thirty years
okay but you know it’s interesting you
say that I read a book one time by a
British diplomat called leaderless or
revolution and he said some of the
biggest revolutions nowadays are
starting without a leader because it’s
becoming a complete different era were
living in revolutions are driven by
three different things something that
bothers you something you love something
that you hate and you’re angry about and
typically the biggest ones are obviously
number three hate and anger because you
want to do something about let me
to few pages I’ve marked off okay and I
don’t know how many them we’ll get into
with this interview but I will try to
get into some of them so you say here on
page 100 this is the section where you
Thomas see through people’s masks right
and you say realize the following the
word personality comes from the Latin
persona which means mask which means
we’re all wearing a mask right in the
public we all wore masks and this has a
positive function if we display exactly
who we are and spoke our minds
truthfully we would offend almost
everyone and reveal qualities that are
best concealed so does this mean that
we’re all living a life of you know lies
or does it mean that some of us actually
are those who are willing to surround
yourself with people who are willing to
tell you the truth and your sensitivity
doesn’t get into it to find your blind
spots you’re able to advance what does
it mean to you when you write something
like this well I’m basically challenging
this idea this notion that people have
that acting in life in being social and
in wearing that mask is a bad thing as
if we need to be more authentic and be
just who we are and I think that’s
completely bogus I think humans are
actors from the age of two years old
three years old we learned how to
manipulate our parents by crying when we
needed to cry being charming saying
certain things we learn how to act and
when we grow up I have in that chapter I
make the point if if you met a person
that said exactly what he felt every
time you know you would hate that person
he would never get a you would never
have any friends so let’s be honest
about this we’re all acting when we’re
in the office we’re not telling our boss
exactly what we think about his stupid
ideas or what he’s wearing or his
clothes or etc we say what we think is
appropriate for that situation we are
courtiers and I want to bring some
honesty into that and say stop fighting
that need to be an actor in fact what
you want to be is you want to be a
better actor
you want to be good at this so you you
are not saying be truthful
you’re saying learn to act better
because there’s some contradictions to
that within the book as well though
right well it depends on the situation
in which you’re being truthful you need
to be truthful about yourself you need
to be honest about who you are you need
to be honest that you have a dark side
that you have aggressive impulses that
you can feel envious so you need to be
truthful about yourself but being a
social animal which is what we are means
that you have to mold what you say and
how you act to the situation that you’re
in
you can’t just simply blurt out what you
what you feel that’s not that’s being an
animal that’s not being a human being a
human being controls his emotions has
the ability to control what he or she
says I see a thousand times in business
situations the number one sin that
people make mistakes in in negotiations
or in meeting is they talk too much they
say things that they shouldn’t have said
they reveal things about themselves that
they shouldn’t you need to have more
self-control
you need to be better at wearing that
mask and you need to enjoy the sense of
being a good actor and playing the role
some of the best people who are the most
successful are really good at playing a
role are really good at this sort of an
acting aspect does this kind of go to
later on in the book when you talk about
how Hubert Humphrey story with Lyndon
Johnson and how he meets you know
Russell and Russell becomes like a
courtier or becomes a mentor to you no
Lyndon Johnson to take his ambitions and
say you’re a little bit too vocal your
ambitions are a little too crazy you’re
robbing people are wrong when he finds a
way to befriend Hubert Humphrey and at
least to who he becomes is that is that
kind of intertwined with that story or
no yes it is I mean all my books are
trying to make you the reader more outer
directed so as I said we’re increasingly
self-absorbed we’re always thinking
about ourselves to people like me did I
say the right thing you know am I being
respected and I want to flip the
scenario I want you to look and think
about the other person what they need
what their thinking their psychology
their background their problems and
starting from
position you have the ability to
influence them and that may lead into
some of this acting ability where you
know how to present the proper front for
them etc I know I get a lot of flack for
this in my books and I’ve had it since
the 48 loves the power and the art of
seduction but I’m saying to be a social
animal and to be able to get along with
people you of course if sometimes you
need to be honest I don’t think you
should be dishonest with your wife and
your children that’s those are personal
situations
I’m talking about in the business world
I’m sure you when you’re addressing your
thousands of employees at those I’ve
been to that in Vegas
you’re playing a role you’re wearing a
mask you’re showing them a kind of
persona that’s going to impress them
you’re being a leader being a leader
means being assertive being strong
talking a certain tone of voice carrying
yourself in a certain way you’re an
actor and the better you are in front of
a crowd in doing that the more people
will think of you as a person of
authority right that’s a different
perspective thinking about it now do you
think there’s partly some people who
struggle with that or maybe they don’t
struggle with that that we need to
improve in that because in the book you
talk about how one woman can meet a man
and a man can open up and say let me
tell you about the way I’ve always
raised my relationship my mother and he
starts crying and one woman can say wow
what an emotional guy I love this guy
sensitive sensitive man his heart I felt
him and another one we can say what a
pansy you are so weak right do you think
this struggle is to try to get everybody
to like us that becomes the issue where
eventually we don’t end up becoming who
we really can become or are you actually
saying that one has to learn how to wear
a different mask to deal with the person
that wants the sensitive side or this
side because that can become a very
complicated life because you become
bipolar having to become so many
different personalities so I’m really
curious to know if we can dig a little
deeper on what you’re saying here well
I’d say you know what I’m asking for I
think I do but I’m saying you need to be
aware of the person that you’re dealing
with now some
people are truly toxic and we’ve all
encountered them in our life there
they’re no good they’re gonna they can
ruin your life
they’re aggressive they’re they’re
selfish whatever it is and and my book
is full of stories of those types now
when you’re with them you need to be
able to suss them out you need to be
able to see the signs of this you’re
dealing with the toxic person so I’m
telling you to be aware in the moment
that every person you deal with in life
is different as an individual you
Patrick have a background that’s unique
right you’ve explained some of that to
me the more I know about your unique
background about who what makes you who
you are the better I’m able to deal with
you it doesn’t mean I have to become a
fake person with Patrick it just means
that when I know that you have these
particular sensitivities and these
particular values I have to be aware of
that and I have to not offend you you
know or do things that are gonna turn
you against me so it’s not like you have
to make everybody like you but you have
to understand every person that you deal
with and what makes them tick and what
makes them an individual sometimes you
do have to alter yourself and and how
you talk to a person depending on who
they are and I’m not you’re not bipolar
this is where the argument gets gets
sidelined and is and it’s not right when
you are in your daily life and you meet
Jordan Peterson for instance you talk to
him a certain way and when you meet
somebody else who maybe you don’t
respect as much you suddenly become
another person I’m saying you’re not
aware of how deeply you are acting in
your everyday religions I agree with
that
you’re always shifting your persona
depending on who you meet you’ll notice
in your own life there’ll be people you
meet who make you kind of aggressive
you’ll be very aggressive and assertive
in them and other people you meet will
make you very intimidated and you’ll be
the exact opposite you change depending
on the people that you’re with that’s
sort of natural that’s how we are but
you’re not aware of that you’re not
aware of how much you are actually are
you saying to be in the equilibrium the
most wins like regardless of what you’re
sitting with or still have to make
something
just missed no matter once it him with
yeah that’s what I’ve brought up the
Lyndon Johnson story the irradiance of
Lyndon Johnson as a communicator was
that he tailored his message to every
different person that he met he wasn’t
the same with Hubert Humphrey as he was
to dick Russell as he was to John F
Kennedy
he was a master that always sort of
shifting depending on on the
vulnerabilities and the values of the
person he was dealing with so you need
to deal with people as individuals
people are complex we like to simplify
that some more than others some more the
nervous but everyone is more flexing you
think yes and we like to simplify them
so when we’re dealing with someone we
think we have a snap judgment about them
they’re like this or that yeah but
they’re more complicated than you think
and so the more you can figure out what
makes them different what makes them an
individual the better your chances of
having the ability to influence them
influence is an important part of this
book and some people might think that
that’s kind of something evil that I’m
that I’m being very Machiavellian but as
I’ve made the point from the 48 laws of
power there’s no worse feeling in life
than the fact that you can have no
influence over the people around you
that you can influence your children or
your spouse or your boss or your
colleagues we all want the ability to
have to persuade people to have to be
able to move them in some direction so
there’s nothing evil about that in my
opinion you know I’m with you there so
I’m by the way Lyndon Johnson seems to
be a guy you like to write a lot about
because you’ve written about him before
it’s truly at how he went on a run and
he ran for office and how the day after
he got elected the next day he was
hospitalized from exhaustion because he
works hard I think he talked about that
in war in 33 strategies or chapter four
I think it’s maybe chapter four or five
one the first few chapters that you said
you know throw everything got one at
gold death ground Stern death cloud
strata which is a sickest ran out of all
of them that’s my favorite strategy that
you have I agree with that strategy but
do you think sometimes a person being
way too ambitious because you know Linda
knew from day one
to be a president yeah it wasn’t like it
was a unknown thing like everybody knew
he wanted to be president do you think
Russell sitting down with him and him
finally being able to trust somebody say
listen I don’t have a bigger motivation
than you I can’t I’m not trying to be a
president I can help you get to the next
level do you think the moment he felt
like Russell’s coming from a standpoint
of really wanted to give him some
direction and help him out
he put his guards down and say let me
just speak to this guy and allow him to
counsel me a little bit you think him
learning how to tame his ambitious in a
way that a lot other people to want to
counsel him helped him eventually become
a president you know some of the most
aggressive powerful people in history
had incredibly high levels of ambition
and they had to learn to control that on
their rise to the top that’s how people
become successful is by their ability to
channel their energy so you have to be
aware that the game is social that the
the winners in life have a wider base of
operation they have more supporters they
have more allies than other people
you’re not going to get very far in life
if you’re alienating everyone around you
right you have to learn self-control I
mean all my books are about learning how
to control yourself you’re asking me how
you learn to control yourself it’s baby
steps it’s little things it’s I mean I
have all sorts of lessons in all of my
books like if you’re angry about
something
you don’t act on your anger you wait 24
hours 48 hours before sending that email
before yelling at someone
these are little steps you take to learn
to control that if you’re highly
ambitious and you show too much of it
sometimes it’s good to show ambition but
you need to show a certain amount not
too much to frighten people well that’s
what these books are about they’re being
self-aware that in a certain situation
you enter an office 30 people and you’re
suddenly show that you want to be like
the number 1 person you’re gonna have
find your path really difficult in life
but if you show that you don’t have any
ambition no one will respect you so you
have to hit that problem
God and you learn how to do that you
learn by your mistakes you learn by the
people you’ve pissed off that you’ve
alienated and you learn self-control
powerful I’ve was the on the board of
directors of a publicly traded company
run by an entrepreneur who was very
successful but who had no self control
he couldn’t control himself in an
interview he when he was interviewed by
a reporter he would talk about his sex
life he would see had no he had no
ability to censor himself and he got
angry got angry he yelled at people he
baited so many enemies that he ended up
destroying himself I was part of the
group that got fired him as the CEO of
the company and then the company just
completely tanked because of that I see
that all the time he’s looking on that
with Elon Musk you have a person like
that who has no self control and it
becomes a problem and so what do you
what do you think I would Elon Musk is
do indeed are you saying Elon Musk is
somebody that has fully lost control or
is Elon Musk a person who is going
through logical people trying to tame
his creativity and they’re clashing
together because these guys are looking
at profits this guy’s thinking about
change in the world yeah but what
happens is like your ego gets in the way
I’ve seen people like that they think
that nothing they cannot be challenged
they think so highly of themselves that
they can’t stand anybody challenging
them so yeah you look you created a
publicly traded company now if you don’t
want people to challenge you if you
don’t want the difficulties that come
with a publicly traded company then
don’t do it it’s very simple if you
don’t want those kind of walls those
obstacles that people are gonna put up
then don’t do it but he made that
decision and once you make that decision
and you’re a strategist you’re not just
an entrepreneur but you’re a leader and
a business person you have to make
compromises you have to control what you
tweet the car business is an extremely
difficult business it depends on mass
producing something at a reasonable
price and so you have to have a scale
that you can that you can manage and he
never really had that
he didn’t build his company up in an
organic slow fashion he was too
ambitious he went too quickly I saw that
with the man who I was the I was on the
board of directors he expanded too
quickly she gets back to your ambition
thing so you have to be careful and you
have to be a strategist in life and I
think someone like Elon Musk lacks a
degree of self control so who would you
think would be a good strategist in the
business world are your opinions the
same way with a guy like Jeff Bezos yes
he’s extremely smart I read an article
recently about the guy who took over I
believe its Best Buy he’s really smart
he’s doing an incredible job in an
industry that’s that’s dying you know a
large store that selling technology
that’s terrible business to be in
he’s extremely wise and how he treats
his employees and how he built his
business slowly
I think Reed Hastings is a great example
he’s made some mistakes but he’s built I
think he’s quite a smart strategy would
he do my Bezos do you think Bezos is a
great strategist yeah he’s almost –
greatest strategist what does that mean
well that means I’m not necessarily in
favor of monopolies like that I think
there’s some dangers to it he understood
that you can go five ten years without
it making any money without any profit
but as long as you expand the brand and
you get people addicted to what you can
give them then he thought long term he
was a visionary he thought in terms of
10 to 15 years and if I have any fault
with business leaders as they don’t have
that ability to look past the quarterly
report he was willing to lose a lot of
money knowing that he was building
something extremely powerful he’s a
great strategy so what’s the difference
in your mind between an Elon Musk and a
Jeff Bezos Elon Musk is more of a
visionary but he’s not a practical
person he’s not he’s not an ABC type
person he’s not able to I think build
something that’s sustainable we’ll see
but I think he got – he was too much of
in a hurry
mm-hmm and he believed too much in his
own myth and he thinks that anything he
touches is gonna be brilliant and great
he doesn’t know his own limits
besos would make mistakes and he would
kind of learn from his mistakes
he’s a humbler person in a way although
it probably has a pretty big issue by
now
Elon Musk isn’t seem like somebody who’s
learning from his mistakes I don’t know
I could be wrong but I think he’s
someone who’s a little bit out of
control
why don’t we lead into the toxic
different toxic types if you don’t mind
I’m gonna read this part here this
chapter is determine the strength of
people’s characters so you talk about
the toxic characters and then you’re
going to a strong character I kind of
want to highlight that as well but uh
you know prior to doing that I want to
read this part to you and what you say
in the book you say the weak character
begins from the opposite side they are
easily overwhelmed by circumstances
making them hard to rely on they are
slippery and evasive worst of all they
cannot be taught because learning from
others implies criticism this means you
will eventually hit a wall and dealing
with them they may appear to listen to
your instructions but they will simply
revert to what they think is best you
talk about the hyper perfectionist then
he talked about the relentless rebel the
personalized er the drama magnet the big
talker the sexualize er the pampered
Prince pleaser Savior
the easy moralizer and I’m reading this
I’m like oh my gosh you know he I had a
little bit of that this phase of my life
and this was a little yeah I mean I’m
reading it it’s like a partner like
maybe this is a little bit of me and so
we said then I said sure which one he
thinks this is me and we’re going
through a nano planet I send the text
message of these eight pages they’re
like 40 people and I wanted them to me
and said what is your takeaway from this
and I saw some people’s response
sometimes you know I sent her to 40
people and I just said what do you think
about these pages and some people’s
respond was well it makes me know how to
deal with a few people in my life all
right and then some people’s respond was
I don’t see anyone as me okay
okay no problem and then some people
were like wow I can see some of my flaws
and it was so interesting on how people
read some of these pages so toxic types
why don’t you talk a little bit about
these different toxic types there’s no
one more dangerous than than a person
who has no self awareness that can’t see
who they are because that gives them
license to do whatever they want and
feel
justified so I want you to become aware
of perhaps you have these tendencies
yourself the ability to judge people’s
character maybe one of the most
important chapters in the book but one
of the most important skills you can
develop in life because think about it
you are constantly in a situation in
life in which you have to decide on
whether you want to associate with this
person or not you want to hire them as
an employee you want to vote for them
for president you want to marry them you
want them to be your friend we’ve all
been in situations where we thought
somebody was a certain way and then a
year later or a few months later we
discover a whole other side to their
personality and it’s not good and we’re
surprised and were disappointed and we
tend to blame them as if they were
fooling us people leave traces of who
they are
you’re just not picking up the signs I
say in this chapter nobody ever does
anything once if somebody has done a bad
deed or you see them mistreating
somebody else and then they’ll come back
and say oh it just came over me I had
this happen once I’m not that’s not who
I am you’ll believe them you should not
ever believe them you should realize
that people have patterns when they do
something bad there probably have done
it before and we’ll do it again so these
are two types of people who have certain
patterns and I want you to be able to
pick them up
and you were making the distinction
between strong and weak characters a
weak character can’t stand any kind of
criticism they can’t learn from
situations their their ego is too
fragile and a strong person can adapt
and can take criticism let’s say you
sent that out to 40 employees and you I
thought what you said was you wanted
them to assess you as a leader through
the prism of no I did that with the
people I work with on a daily basis like
I did that with Mari I did that my wife
I did on what people I said which one
you think is me that’s a sign of a
strong character yeah and that’s a sign
of someone who was a good leader I have
a quote in there from Schopenhauer that
fools do not show up wearing a cap and
bells and evil destructive people don’t
have horns on their head they’ve learned
to disguise
himself so really toxic people have
learned since an early age that if they
just simply display their ugly behavior
they’ll turn off people and so they
learn to be charming and they learn to
be kind of seductive and they wear a
mask that disguises you from the reality
is it the fact that every by 100 percent
of people fall under one of these toxic
types no no so there are people that
don’t fall under any of these toxic
types we all have a little bit of look
that’s what I’m saying so I have a
little bit of the hyper perfectionist in
there I can see that I can see that
because I can see that cuz how many
years have you and I’ve been talking
about writing this book I mean I
remember one time you and I spoke and
you’re like Pat if I have one other
person your mother had just called you
that day and she said how you doing with
the book and you were upset you said if
my mother calls me one more time asking
me how the book is looking I’m gonna
lose it
I don’t want anybody asks me about the
book so you were at 300 books to write
this book over 300 books to write this
book I can see that but what I want to
know is the following okay one almost
all of us have a part of the toxic types
the perfection as a relentless rebel
personalized er drama magnum big talker
sexualized or pampered friends pleaser
Savior easy moralizer etc etc right we
all have it we do okay is the key
self-awareness and then have somebody
give counsel to you or is it self you
like can you address it yourself you
know what I’m saying is that something
not maybe I need to sit down and consult
with anybody because how I view myself
is obviously you know 9 out of 10 times
different than how other people view me
would you agree with that definitely so
do you think we almost need somebody
else who knows us very well to give us
their feedback with us willing to take
it well it’s a question of both it’s a
great question it’s good to get feedback
it’s just sometimes you can’t trust
people how you really like people will
be political with you particularly you
as a CEO of a great company they may not
be very honest they may be afraid to be
honest with you your wife maybe less so
but even she has her limits even she
knows that she doesn’t want to she needs
to please you or stay on your good side
so you need to have the ability to do
both
the the greatest sign is when you’ve had
an interaction with people and it didn’t
go the way you expected and the person
was colder than than you thought maybe
they were offended are you gonna go back
home and Gothica as an asshole him
what an idiot you know are you gonna go
home are you gonna say what did I do
wrong was I being too dramatic yeah was
I being too personal in this situation
was I moralizing too much can you go
home and self reflect and say well maybe
I have some of these problems that’s the
difference between you and the toxic
type the toxic type can’t go through
that process let’s say that the quality
in a person is almost like a metal
there’s the word tensile if you’re a
strong person you can bend a little bit
that metal if it if it bends a little
bit is actually stronger people who are
weak can’t take any kind of criticism
can’t look at themselves their ego is
very fragile they’re gonna wilt under
any kind of challenge okay so let’s go
through the process on when you talk
about the superior character right
because you talk about then it’s
incredible he explained it say I’m
somebody to have one of these toxic
personalities right masks that I wear
due to upbringing mother like when you
tell the story about how Howard Hughes
was raised with a mother that almost was
all over him and loved on him he
couldn’t do anything wrong and a dad
wanted him to have a certain set of
standards to continue the family legacy
and then he didn’t want to be dependent
and I don’t want to be in an end they
died in and boom he’s left to do this
and he’s a technical guy but he’s not
really a businessman and a visionary in
a leader you’re explaining all that
other stuff
but see I’m somebody I read it and I
said I got three of them and it concerns
me and I want to change and I see a
trend all the kind of people I attract
or the kind of people I keep losing in
my life right like I remember one time I
dated three girls in span of four years
they were all the same like why am i
attractive this problem in my life and I
said one day I’m sometimes like oh
describe these girls do nowadays I’m
like dude it’s not these girls nowadays
it’s you so then I came from this
standpoint then I said dude I am NOT
playing around I got a
who the hell this guy is right because I
wouldn’t let my own daughter marry a guy
like me that was my biggest challenge oh
hey so I’m staying single for a while I
gotta figure myself out how does
somebody who knows this to go to the
superior character so what processes do
I need to go through the main thing is
is knowing that you have that quality
see like if you don’t think that you
have they say you are a hyper
perfectionist and I have those
tendencies but you don’t know you’re not
aware of it you don’t think that you
have that problem you’re never gonna be
able to stop it you’re never gonna be
able to control it so 90% of the game is
your self-awareness so when you get in a
situation the next time where your
tendencies I said make it plain in the
book that we have a lower in the higher
self the lower self is this kind of
animal part of us that makes us act
without thinking that makes us fall into
patterns that makes us get emotional
that makes us take the path of least
resistance and we’re constantly falling
for that because it’s easier it’s the
animal part of our nature if you’re
aware of this part of you if you’re
aware that you have these tendencies
then you can begin to control them but I
don’t want people to think that this is
that you have to aim too high you’re not
trying to become Gandhi or something we
have our flaws and we have our
limitations so you are aware that you
have a pattern with certain women okay
three of them I can bet you that there
was probably a fourth woman that you
were about to fall for or maybe this
have solutely okay and maybe you did but
then at that point you realized oh here
I’m doing it again yes all right I get
to step in it takes time yeah when you
make mistake when you have a painful
relationship a painful a bad interaction
you step back and you say is this a
pattern in my life now with that
awareness you can begin to break that
pattern you talked about creativity and
you know having people give you some
counsel and feedback two days ago to a
chip Wilson I don’t know if you know
with chip Wilson is founder of Lululemon
oh he’s worth three point nine billion
dollars and so you know we get along
when we talk politically we may go at it
for a long time and have some
credible conversations together but I
always walk away saying this is my
friend we have a relationship together
the same way Patrick a hundred percent I
totally respect you and I’m 100 percent
great CEO and thank you you’re a wise
leader I appreciate a toxic type thank
you so much thank you so the party’s
said to me that was very interesting and
I walked away he said a true creative
person is never happy because whatever
product he creates he’s never happen
after you after he produces it but he
said the challenge sometimes is there’s
now there’s a Board of Directors
drive-away creativity in the company so
as the company gets around longer all
they want to do is profits or fire
people you know raise costs and do this
it’s almost like printing money to make
the economy look good but then you know
you’re gonna have ahead few years later
and so I asked them a question about how
to get the creative person to deal with
the logical people that are gonna tell
you trans look we can’t be doing this
last time we do we lost money all this
other stuff how do you having studied so
many different people and having studied
so many different things where do you
see the balance of a creative visionary
Elon Musk knows he needs data he knows
he needs to look at trends he knows he
needs to sit down and talk to the
logical people that they see numbers and
the logical people know they meet Elon
they need a guy that’s gonna cast a
vision of where to go next
how do you make those two personalities
work from the Elon Musk perspective he
has to be aware that he has limits that
he’s not great at certain things that he
knows how to come up with a great idea
for the Tesla car but how to make – how
to build it to a scale that it can
become like a General Motors he’s in
over his head he’s gonna need help he
decided to go to become a publicly
traded company so he could raise money
on a different level than if he were
private so you need to realize that
you’re dependent on other people alright
so if you’re Elan musk and you’re just
gone public you’re aware that you have
your limits you aware that you can be a
bit egocentric
alright Who am I gonna bring onto the
board that’s a key decision am I gonna
bring on a bunch of yes-men
we’re just gonna kowtow to everything I
say which I think he started off with a
board like that or am I gonna being
bring people on who were just numbers
people who are gonna make my life
miserable there were only about a
quarterly report and for boosting the
price on on Wall Street or am I gonna be
bringing smart strategic people who were
gonna cover for my flaws so a great
leader realizes and I talked a lot about
this in the war book for great generals
know that they have flaws and
limitations and the people they hire are
designed to cover those flaws so if I’m
not great at execution I’m gonna hire
people to serve on the board who are
practical who have a track record but
who are not meddlers so it’s a key
element there is who you choose to be on
your board that’s a tough thing and he
talked about that let me tell you it is
such a tights easier to say it then
tougher to be in a situation because
when you’re hiring a boy I’ve been in
the situation so I know how tough it is
because you could hire someone who is
like that and then they get on the board
and they feel the pressure from being a
publicly traded company and for getting
in trouble with shareholders yeah Who am
I beholden to the shareholders or to the
CEO and at some point you’re legally
responsible that’s shareholders and you
start changing who you were so it’s a
difficult decision and a lot of it’s
based on the character of the people
that you choose but the main thing would
be for the guy that I worked for and my
board was like Elon Musk and he could
not be aware of his own flaws and
limitations he thought he could do the
whole thing he built this company from
one store to hundreds of stores around
the world why should it why does anybody
know more than I do you know and I told
him beginning from day one look you have
limitations there are things that you’re
not good at let me hold them down yeah
that was his religion we held that
conversation he just wouldn’t listen he
loves me because of the 48 laws the
power he brought me onto that way
because he wanted more power he didn’t
want to he wanted a yes-man he wanted
something just to validate his ego so
the Elon Musk thing is who do you choose
to be your lieutenants it’s not a
science because once you get on the
board people change you know but you you
have to have a mix of people from
different backgrounds and and create
it’s like choosing a basketball team you
gotta have the right kind of migrant mix
and then from the board point of view
you have to understand that this is the
creative person this is the person who’s
driving the company
you can’t put straight jackets on them
you can’t tell them to be someone that
they’re not off to do for them it’s
extremely tough because you’re feeling
shareholder pressure so in my case the
guy who was this visionary CEO he was
brilliant he’s a brilliant entrepreneur
he’s knew he knew how to design clothes
and the board was trying to constrain
him and always like not giving him the
money that he needed he wanted to
constantly borrow more money to expand
etc they were putting all sorts of
limitations on him that were making so
he couldn’t use his strengths so it’s
the fact that the the board members and
the CEO are aware of their own
limitations now that’s easier said than
done doubt about it because I’m in these
meetings all the time but I won’t read
this part to you okay so two things and
then let’s go into envy and I got some
questions I want to ask you about
persuasion and possibly even an event
that happened in Argentina two weeks ago
when a guy got up and gave his opinion
about how Millennials should change and
they don’t understand this and they
don’t understand that and I’m like this
is this is a complete different
perspective he’s coming from maybe what
your opinions are about some
generational how everybody has certain
debt so you talk about here in the book
you obviously talk a lot about the
narcissistic leader but you say if
anyone dares to challenge the narcissist
they are more prone than others to go
into deep narcissistic rage they are
hyper sensitive they also like to stir
up constant drama as a means to justify
their power they are the only ones who
can solve problems they create constant
drama also give them more opportunities
to be center of attention the work place
is never stable under the door under
their direction how does one who is
going through this now you and I talked
about it earlier when we talk with
presidents and I said there’s not a
single president we’ve had that doesn’t
have a slight element of narcissism
you know Trump has it he’s CEO has to
see your hazard right and and there
could be a good thing but learning how
to control and come to the next level
how do you prevent this from happening
from constantly creating problems to
solve if there are not no problems okay
so I have a definition of narcissism
that’s a little different from other
people’s normally we think of a nurse’s
to someone who loves themself and I’m
actually saying that a narcissist is a
person who doesn’t love themself
sufficiently so in order to get through
life we have to have a degree of self
esteem we have to think that we’re
worthy of certain things we have to have
a sense of inner worth if we don’t have
that kind of bedrock from within we
constantly need attention and validation
from other people right I need attention
I need to stir trouble I need to feed my
ego I can’t get it from myself I have to
get it from other people
mm-hmm that’s a classic what I call it
deep narcissist and that’s why they
cause so many problems in life and I
measure it I say that imagine it like a
water line and here at the top is
someone who’s not a narcissist here at
the middle is kind of an average person
and as you sink deeper into narcissism
you’re more and more self-absorbed you
can never get up to that mid-level point
where you can start thinking about other
people at the high point you’re someone
who’s very empathetic you’re able to get
inside the mind of other people you
understand their moods their emotions
most of us fall at that range in maybe
60% 50 being the middle line we have
moments of narcissism where we get
self-absorbed particularly we have
problems and we we turn inward but then
we have enough self-esteem because of
our parents because of our background
that we raise ourselves back up and we
don’t keep continually sinking into that
narcissism we want to get higher we want
to get to that level where we’re able to
be more empathetic the deep narcissist
has sunk so far below that they can
never get up to even to that halfway
point there’s so self-absorbed they’re
so insecure they constantly must stir up
trouble they need to be the center of
attention if to be the center of
attention means to create a great work
of art that’s
but sometimes to be the center of
attention means to mess with people to
create problems to stir up trouble and
to be that at the center of that once
somebody is at that level like a twenty
or thirty I’m these are just arbitrary
now sure there’s nothing that’s gonna
raise them back up that’s who they are
there’s nothing they can do there’s
almost nothing other people can do they
are they are what’s the word they’re
damaged goods a lot of nothing that can
happen I don’t think so
Wow and so those are some strong words
right there well I have a story actually
a story that got cut from the book if
you got my bonus material if you
preorder the laws of human nature you
get some bonus material there’s a story
I cut that I gave you about Robert
Oppenheimer the physicist who was a deep
narcissist who managed to kind of cure
himself and the way he cured himself was
through work instead of absorbing
himself in getting attention he put all
of his energy into the Manhattan Project
and into later becoming a great
physicist sort of a public figure he
turned against nuclear arms etc he sort
of cured himself you can perhaps cure
yourself through your work through
getting out of this room getting your
attention through what you achieve
rather than through what you stir up
from other people but generally once you
get past that the low level there’s
nothing you can do because you’re
addicted to that you’re addicted to
getting attention from other people when
you’re in the business world you have to
deal with so many different
personalities yeah and it first starts
off on you realizing K why am i
attracting people like this well maybe
because they’re like you right and
they’re true you’re attracting your own
self and then you change oh wow
attracting quality people what’s going
on over here well there’s a reflection
and that’s taking place as well and
sometimes as I’m coaching I’m sitting
and going through these conversations I
think about some of the things I saw
happening early on in my career one of
the things you wrote in this book page
47 okay you said moralize errs because
you know sometimes we tie my narcissism
bipolar and people say this person
they’re like this they’re narcissistic
they’re this moralizer to try to
separate themselves out and denounce the
narcissist in the world today are often
the biggest narcissist of them all
they love the sound of their voice as
they point fingers and preach we are all
on the spectrum of self-absorption
creating the self that we can love and
healthy development there should be no
stigma attached to it right the sole
idea of I’m above narcissism and I can’t
believe somebody would be some I like
this now I think they are some of the
biggest nor they are they are in other
words if I write about aggression or I
write about Envy or I write about
narcissism every single human being that
has ever lived is inside that circle we
all have that quality and the worst type
of people are those who say oh no it’s
not me I’m not a narcissist I’m not
aggressive
I never feel Envy it’s not possible I
explain why we are all narcissists why
we’re all self-absorbed it comes from
the way that we are raised as children
and how we need to feel validated for
ourselves so people who claim that
they’re not narcissistic are generally
very dangerous
I’ve seen them manipulate and divide in
ways that just makes no sense to me and
I think they’re extremely powerful when
it comes down to persuasion I was like
you had some personal experience yes
many of them can you share one so the
campaign let’s just say if I’m dealing
with you and you did something that you
have to make a tough decision okay
they’ll go campaign their sympathy and
not their sympathy their unfairness like
that word it’s so unfair and I don’t
know how to handle this and I’m coming
from this place and I’m trying to and
I’m you know going to church and I’m
going through this and I’m really and
then people like oh my gosh Patrick
you’re being unfair and I can’t believe
you’re doing this coming from that and
maybe you’re not understanding on this
and up and like wait a minute wait a
minute wait a minute this is an entirely
game being played and in a year and a
half late everybody realized it was a
game being played and this isn’t just
one instance this has happened multiple
different times here’s the crazy thing
these are good people
and typically the part that I seat for
moralize errs leads me to the chapter
that you’re talking about here next I
think I think more passive aggressive
hardcore but demoralize errs to me are
people that are driven by Envy
that’s the challenge for me with
moralizer x’ most people that come from
a place of moralizer x’ are now willing
to be that guy shoppin heimer or the guy
talk matter was a narcissist at the
highest level and says rather than me
being at a level 20 there you explained
it kind of like the book power versus
force I don’t know if you’ve read power
versus force I think you would love that
book so rather than me you know trying
to be this narcissist I’m gonna put all
my energy into work and see what I can
build and I look what he did later on he
was against nuclear all this other stuff
I think moralizer x’ are not willing to
put the work that’s the challenge they
want that same attention that some of
these people get in their lives with the
work but they’re frightened of putting
the work and so let’s talk about signs
of envy okay so again I read this and
one of my favorite things you do in this
book it’s like speaking to my father
when I go up and I say let me tell you
what this person said let me tell what
that person there let me tell you what
this person said a my dad would come
back and says but you did this but how
about what you did but you caused this
but what inside only how could you say
that I’m your son but you did this why
are you only looking at it from your
perspective right why are you thinking
it’s the other person right there’s a
part of it that’s on you as well and
that’s a tough place could be father oh
he is so when I read signs of envy it
takes me back on every element of myself
when I was being extremely lazy and
somebody was passing me up and I had
some signs I’m like oh my gosh all this
other stuff like when I was in high
school or certain ages my life and I’m
like I realize how much of this can
apply to everybody so here’s what you
talk about science of NV poisonous
praise backbiting the push-pull limit
right and then you go envious types the
leveler which is sick
I’m gonna read the leveller you say the
leveler is the following when you first
meet them
Levellers can seem rather entertaining
and interesting they tend to have a
wicked sense of humor they are good at
putting down those who are powerful and
deflating the pretensions the
pretentious they also seem to have a
keen nose for injustice and unfairness
in the world but where they differ from
the work from the people who are genuine
empathy for underdogs is that Levellers
cannot recognize or appreciate
excellence
almost anyone particularly those who are
life they have delicate egos those who
have achieved things in life make them
feel insecure they are highly sensitive
to feelings and inferiority they envy
initially feel like just when you
explain Levellers to me was like
unbelievable what what prompted you want
to write about this that’s one second
how does one watching this who maybe
secretly deals with envy but they don’t
want to publicly talk about the fact
they deal with their because it’s one of
the seven deadly sins Envy right how
does one handle that how does one deal
with that handle one’s own in theater
from other people no no no forget about
other people so first let’s address my
own I’m a moralizer right I keep playing
the card of well life is not all about
this you know my connection and it’s
this and I’m trying to be such a
moralizer type of human being right and
these people are too ambitious and these
people are too much about wanting all
the attention and I don’t I don’t want a
lot of it I most people who are like
that there’s not no advice I can give
them that’s who they are they’re locked
into that there are certain people who
are called envir types who because of
their childhood they feel that they
always deserve more they’re entitled to
have more from people they feel like
they are privileged somehow they’re not
willing to go out and do the work they
want other people to give give give more
nothing’s ever gonna change them it’s
best that you recognize them and stay
away from such types I saw you so they
can be very destructive in the end of
that chapter I have a key I have a
section on how to use in your own envy
so the number first point is to
recognize that you feel it to not be in
denial this book is about how you tend
to be in denial Envy is one emotion that
almost no one will ever admit to because
to admit to feeling envy is to admit
that you feel inferior to another person
we don’t like to do that we want to feel
superior so no one will ever admit that
they acted out of envy you Patrick
Amy Robert we have done things out of
life out of envy it’s natural team
nature chimpanzees they’ve done studies
chimps and primates showed signs of envy
what does it come from it comes from the
fact that we’re a social animal
and we’re constantly comparing ourselves
to others does he have more than I do is
he getting more respect than I’m getting
it’s his car better than mine is he have
more perks and privileges than I’m
getting how did you get into that
University and I didn’t we’re all doing
it stop denying that it’s happening it’s
how the brain functions once you’re
aware that you actually feel Envy and
you’re finally honest with yourself then
you can move beyond it instead of
constantly feeling Envy for someone
who’s powerful turn that into something
competitive instead of like being angry
and deciding to sabotage them why don’t
you work on becoming better than them
using the fact that you feel inferior to
this person should impale you to excel
to be become better than so you’re
saying let the feeling of envy make you
competitive to one out do and out
compete and out working out is you’re
not going to get rid of envy it’s the
silliest idea that you’re going to
somehow be Gandhi and you’re not gonna
feel it you’re gonna feel it
but turn it into something productive
and positive over you know where you
actually achieve something yeah instead
of tearing people down and criticizing
them and moralizing build something in
Excel use it as a force to make you
competitive you always tend to compare
yourself to people who are more powerful
than you why don’t you look down on the
scale and look at people who were less
powerful than you and compare yourself
to them so that you could begin to
appreciate what you have you know oh
he’s got so much better parents than I
do I wish I had a mother like that well
look at your friend who had the worst
kind of mother and feel appreciative of
what you have it wasn’t that bad so look
at the other side and compare yourself
to people who have a much worse than you
and also instead of feeling there’s a
thing called schadenfreude a– which is
a form of envy where if someone says
that they’ve had a bad experience it
almost makes you feel happy inside you
get joy from other people’s pain if your
friend doesn’t get hired for a job for a
moment you feel almost kind of happy
because what did you say that’s called
that’s clawed and fried a kind it’s
German for joy in pain feeling joy in
other people’s pain
it’s a very big component of envy you
like to read about other people’s
failings in social media was the most
popular subject some powerful person who
has a foible who fell everyone loves
that they feed off it’s a feeding frenzy
that’s schadenfreude well you want to
have the opposite you want to develop
what we call mid Friday which is if
somebody has good news
you actually feel joy for them you don’t
feel pain that you don’t feel envious
you actually share their joy you open up
your spirit these are not easy there no
no Joe Phil Hellmuth talked about that
Phil him you talked about how a poker
player poker player feel um you talked
about how guy stole money from them and
he sat there and start thinking about
positive thoughts about the guy and
eventually ended up being able to have a
relationship with this guy because he
conditioned himself to start liking this
guy rather than having to resent and it
was the hardest thing he had to overcome
and then once he overcame that then he
ended up becoming the biggest bracelet
winner he’s got 15 of them now so that
idea what you’re talking about as easier
said than done extremely different but
we work the right word conditioning you
yes dishing yourself to stand you can
train yourself to feel differently so so
now let’s talk about the other side so
one is how to handle my own MB that have
four others how about when there’s other
people that are envious of my game and
what I’m doing how do I handle that
because especially in a competitive
world when you come up I mean I’m sure a
lot of Arthur’s are not happy about the
fact that every time you put an ink on
paper you sell a New York Times
bestseller I’m sure a guy like you
experienced that as well I get it I get
tons of envy so how do you handle it
coming in as a person that’s growing and
doing bigger things in your life from
friends family peers competitors well
first of all you have to understand that
that’s what you’re experiencing you know
people will disguise their Envy they
will criticize you they will say oh
Patrick you you cheated your way to the
top or you did this out of the other
your power you got to where you are out
of some unfair means or you don’t really
deserve your success and you won’t
recognize that as envy they may be more
subtle with their criticisms you’ll
think that they’re just being critical
of you but they’re trying to be honest
but in fact they are feeling deep them
out of envy so the problem is
when envy is occurring oftentimes you
don’t recognize that that’s what’s going
on you think that people are just don’t
like you or criticizing you as opposed
to the fact that they are envious of
your success so half the game is to
recognize that people are feeling this
emotion and to not get dragged down on
to their level
the other thing is to recognize the
types of people who are toxic and Viers
so everybody feels Envy so if your
assistant or somebody or colleague has a
bitchy comment to you that hurts you and
that company you feel comes from envy
it’s probably best to just let it go by
to do the Phil Hellmuth’s strategy and
to not take it personally and to
recognize that Envy is like poison ivy
it’s out there it exists there’s nothing
you can do about it everybody feels it
just accept it in some people but then
they’re the toxic types who are gonna
ruin your life they’re gonna become your
partner or your friend in order to wound
you they feel Envy and they want it
their strategy is they’re gonna become
your assistant or your colleague or your
business partner or your wife do that
happens and they’re gonna end up trying
to sabotage you and ruin you that’s
their strategy so you have to recognize
people who were prone to feeling a lot
of envy and I give give you a kind of a
code for you give me a summary give me a
bit up because sometimes you have a
blind spot right love it love creates
blind spots right flattery creates blind
spot you know all of these things what a
blind spot so how do you what do you
look for okay well there’s there’s
there’s a very simple level I have a
chapter on nonverbal communication very
big on that because we humans
communicate a lot through our body
language and Vere’s
will reveal themselves through what we
call micro expressions and I have a
strategy you know this philosopher
advised if you tell somebody suddenly
you suspect that they’re an interview
and you tell them of some good news that
has happened to you for a split second
you will notice a slight frown on their
face a slight sign of unpleasantness
like they swallowed a lemon then of the
skies
the smile I swear if you’re aware of it
you’ll see it on the other hand if you
tell them something bad happened oh I
got that I didn’t get that job or I lost
you know the mortgage in my house for a
moment you’ll detect a slight smile us
might look of pleasure it only lasts for
half a second there’s a guy named Paul
Ekman who writes about emotions and he’s
coined the expression micro-expressions
and he literally can show you
photographs of what they look like
they’re very fast and very because
people can’t help but feel a little bit
of excitement when you tell them bad
news or feel a little bit of pain when
you tell them something good about
yourselves then they disguise it so
that’s one way another way is that
people are praising you and it’s too
effusive it doesn’t feel justified it’s
like they’ve you’ve only known them for
a week and they’re saying God Patrick
you were the greatest person I’ve ever
met you’re so wise you’re so it’s not
natural to say for people to be like
that it’s natural for us when we meet
someone to be a little wary around them
but if someone is suddenly praising you
and it doesn’t seem justified anything
that you’ve done or said they’re
probably disguising some Envy so if you
know somebody who tells you gossip
gossipers or envy types so they share
with you some gossip about somebody else
in the business and it’s okay everybody
gossips but if they’re there do it a
little too awful it’s a little too
strong a little too salacious they’re
probably it’s some point gonna be
gossiping about you and so that’s a sure
sign that that they feel Envy toward the
people that they’re trying to criticize
this is why I say this guy’s manure
watching the first one we gotta order
this book and read this entire book
cover to cover huh
I don’t read his books I study his books
I don’t just read this guy’s books in
the world of business if you don’t do
realize your number one product is
people you’re gonna be left behind so go
one more sign about the envy think when
somebody’s doing it to you look said the
whole thing your timing when you ask a
question and say you won’t believe what
just happened in my life and we just had
a big promotion to see that subtle half
a second or you know my wife and I just
had the worst argument ever I think
things are going in the wrong direction
in a subtle thing to see
right it could be a microexpression or
it could also be where they go with you
on that
no I’m talking about you can actually
test people’s n vehicle my wife and I
just had the worst argument she’s such a
bitch
and then they go and they try and subtly
make you feel even worse about your wife
they’re trying to sabotage you and
destroy you natural reaction for me if
you said I have this terrible fight with
my wife because I want to try and maybe
help you repair it
get over it deal with it this envir is
gonna want to make you feel worse and
you’re not gonna recognize that that’s
what they’re up to they’re gonna go god
your wife is such a bitch you really
should think about leaving her you know
even though you have children or
whatever or though they’re gonna find OD
she was like that in that argument I saw
her and she was like this and she’s
worse than you think so it’s not just
the microexpression fuel on fire it’s
what they do afterwards or if you have
some success it’s not just the
microexpression
they’ll find a way of devaluing it so
for instance for me personally I had
friends who I suddenly had success with
the 48 laws of power and they’ll go boy
that book is sure making a lot of money
and the implication was I mean they said
it differently was I wrote the book to
make money you know as a put-down
but they’re coining it as kind of half
praise right well that’s a sure sign
because really what they’re saying is
you’re just a soulless hack who wrote
your book not because you believe in it
because you want to make money so those
kind of comments that get under your
skin that make you think about yourself
and maybe I’m not so good is actually
designed by the other we live in a
culture do you call it out do you call
it out well that happens or do you just
kind of put it store it and say got it
move on 95% of the time I store it and
move on but sometimes I give them a
comeback where I put it back on them and
I sort of turned the tables because I
don’t see you just taking it all the
time well sometimes you can’t help it
take it it’s like a friend or somebody
you don’t want to offend and there’s no
point in getting but I have my subtle
digs my way of getting
at them you know I don’t take it all the
time so you know here’s what I did I had
I had a person that we a long time ago I
work with and every time we had some
kind of button a good news it would be
like hey look at the email we just got
this person wants to partner with us and
do this yeah it’s probably fake email oh
look at this other person they want to
do this is odd they probably would never
do anything like yeah and then you know
what I realized I got together with a
couple of my teammates and I said listen
moving forward no good news goes to this
person yeah no good news goes to this
person just keep it we’ll deal with it
and we’ll move on because every time we
share it there’s a negativity that comes
back and we don’t know where it’s coming
from
it kind of adds up last thing here you
know you and I Robert we can sit down
two hours feels like five minutes and I
don’t even know time goes by right so a
couple weeks ago man Argentina and I’m
at this insurance conference and we’re
staying at this palace and it’s a nice
place born Osiris for being spoiled and
having a good time and all these seals
of insurance companies over there and on
one of the sessions they start asking
about working with Millennials and how
do you get insurance agents Millennials
to become insurance agent so first all
you have to realize life insurance is as
boring as it gets you know for us when
we do what we do it’s not the most
exciting industry and it’s been terrible
because a lot of people don’t how to
connect with the next generation that’s
been the biggest challenge the industry
is an insane industry more money’s made
in this industry and lives are changed
because that’s a great product today
insurance carriers are making products
that a person can take advantage of
while you’re alive so doctor tells you
got terminal illness or chronic illness
you had six hundred thousand dollar life
insurance policy now they’re giving you
the six hundred thousand dollars to
enjoy while you’re alive before you die
things have innovated but they don’t
know how to connect with the generations
right so you study generations and you
see what happens
boomers Gen X Millennials all these
other things what are you seeing
happening with a certain spirit that’s
with these generations that we ought to
pay attention to to you know be able to
know that next generation needs this so
we can communicate with these guys what
do we do with that people in a
generation
don’t are gonna think differently than
you are thinking it’s a natural process
this goes back thousands of years
the
oldest recorded bit of history on some
tablets from sumaré like 9,000 years ago
are these young people nowadays are so
worthless this is the worst generation
they’re not they’re gonna make our
country fall apart in other words the
present generation always thinks the
previous generation is screwed up not as
smart not as together soft whatever
mm-hmm and I think that the older
generation is all also a problematic
everyone thinks that their generation is
superior so you want to be aware of the
fact that if you’re dealing with
Millennials they’re not inferior they’re
not superior they’re just of a different
generation it’s like an animal that
evolves in a different way and so you
want to be aware of what makes their
life different and where their values
come from if you’re a gen Xer you valued
more than anything individualism you
grew up in that period where your
parents were from the 60s generation and
they tend to not be the best parents and
they often left you alone eh yours might
have been different but that was the
culture that we lived in so people in
the gen-x generation this has been
proven by studies attempted to be much
value individualism and self-reliance
Millennials are not like that at all
they grew up in the period of 9/11 and
the crash of 2008 they are very much
more fearful about it they don’t let
necessarily believe that they control
their own destiny they think that there
are a lot of forces out there that they
can’t control particularly when it comes
to like Wall Street and things like that
and so they’re very wary and they’re not
so so appealing to them as an individual
as its kind of a gen Xer will fall on
deaf ears they’re much more attuned to
the social realm to being around other
people to causes Millennials are really
big on causes so you have to know their
spirit and know that if you’re going to
try to appeal to them and sell life
insurance you’re gonna have to approach
them from a totally different angle than
you approach somebody who’s a boomer or
Gen X you have to adapt to their spirit
and not feel superior to them so I
explained in the book how you kind of
create a profile of that generation
they’re also great books written about
Millennials that you can get to
understand them and get out of yourself
and out of your way of thinking they
don’t think the way that you and I think
I when I grew up the first thing I
wanted to do was leave my parents house
when I was 18 get the hell out of the
house and be on my own in college have
everything for myself Millennials don’t
think that way they’d like to stay at
home they’re living in their house until
they’re 28 30 years old they’re afraid
of sometimes they’re afraid of
independence they don’t want to own a
car because it’s gonna bring them down
to make them more dependent they’re
afraid of it that’s not a moral judgment
and I if I were millennial I would
probably be the same way it’s just
different they have other positive
traits besides that they’re more
community oriented than a lot of people
from my generation or Gen Xers but you
have to recognize what makes them
different and not come at them from your
moralizing perspective it’s so amazing
you say that because chip Wilson two
days ago said the following he said I
said your ideal customer you are so
specific on who it is after research in
this guy it’s a 32 year old woman born
on September 28th who owns a cat isn’t
Mary takes care of her health but it’s
thinking about getting married but she
doesn’t have to
that’s his ideal customer and the
moments energy that’s his that’s his
customer yeah and the moment he
identified that to understand how
socially were changing all these things
and listening to everybody talking about
yoga help all these things he saw how
things are changing and he capitalized
on it yeah I think it’s important to to
know generationally one time
Time magazine did an article I think 25
years ago was titled a narcissistic
generation and he said you know the
Millennials are there says dad is this
six pages they’re saying all this other
stuff but then at the end it says if you
are saying that this generation is lazy
they don’t appreciate this they don’t
appreciate they don’t appreciate this
all you’re saying is that you’re getting
older yes at one point you were like
them yeah and I thought it was a great
ending to an article with Time magazine
so again Robert you and I can talk for
hours and I think everybody ought to
read this book laws of human nature and
matter of fact one of the things I would
want to do is if you wouldn’t mind
signing a couple copies of the book
anybody out there who goes buys the book
on Amazon and you post a picture of the
fact that you purchased a book and you
send it to us tweet it at Robert Greene
and myself his handle is right
underneath this picture and you see my
handle as well we’re gonna send how
about to sign copies we sent to folks as
long as they purchased a copy they tweet
you and I you’re like one of them and
we’ll send a copy to them if you’re okay
with that you okay with that okay and if
you haven’t watched the first sit-down
Robert and I did that had to do with 40
laws of power and 33 strategies of war I
highly recommend you click on the link
somewhere here on the page to go watch
that interview as well because it’ll go
different direction that we went with
his prior books that he’s read I think
you don’t need to just order one book I
think whoever that’s a true value Taner
go order those five books every single
one of them mass 333 strategies for T
lost art of seduction and this 150th lot
is a book I know you’ll like a lot but
I’m talking entrepreneurs those five I
recommend you order every single one I’m
slowly but surely start reading them
having said that brother thank you so
much every time truly thanks so much really enjoy it yes thank you