well anti-virus software no longer works
and I don’t want the as the feds busting
down my doors so if you have a computer
and you have any kind of antivirus
software on your computer that says
McAfee I am sitting with the founder of
that antivirus software John McAfee and
a few other things to tell you about
John before we get into it he’s probably
got one of the most I mean there’s so
many ways stories you read about him
that’s just so interesting when you read
about him former presidential candidate
I think when you ran you ran on a
libertarian slash cyber party it was a
limited year Libertarian Party 1987
founded McAfee and in 1996 t-cells had
made a lot of money at that time if
social media was around 1994-1996 he’d
probably you probably have tens of
millions of people following you on your
you know views that you have in place so
again I can say a lot of things about
yourself you say let’s just keep it
simple and get into it John thank you so
much sir for taking the time for
visiting with us truly appreciate it if
we can get right into it you know so
right now you know you saw what happened
with last week two weeks ago everybody’s
curious to know what’s going on with
Mark Zuckerberg Facebook all of these
other things and I know you yourself
having been on the other side when
you’re running the software and you kind
of trying to protect us and in a space
like that one you were running at McAfee
was known as probably number one because
it was ran by people who were extremely
paranoid which is what you would want so
when you see that today and you see
what’s going on with Facebook what are
you thinking about
well I’m thinking people are foolish if
you believe you can go onto the internet
sign-on to a social media site and
expect to have privacy
that’s ridiculous how do these companies
make money seriously Google Google makes
money by knowing where you are what you
behind who you is who your contacts are
who you’re let’s talk to you where
you’re eating your your dinner this is
how everybody makes money and to think
that you’re going to get these free
services
seriously how valuable to you is Google
how often do you google something to
find out anything you know we’re the
next clothing super squats on the movies
you know something to help you children
with their homework constantly
invaluable or does it cost you
zero zero please nothing is free nothing
is free I mean my parents told me that I
told my children that what you are
paying is your privacy please
so to be shocked that Facebook is
selling your data or allowing people to
have access to it I’m sorry this is
foolish it’s utterly foolish so if you
want to use free services and you’re
paying nothing for them why then are you
upset that they’re taking the data that
you input in selling it I mean to expect
privacy in this world where hackers can
see anything the government can see
anything that our telephones our of our
smartphones are designed to spy on us
that serves as their designed pardon
they’re designed to spy on us of course
they are because how again do they make
money the they have application
interfaces that let them access your
location your contacts who you’re
calling what you’re buying
why because marketers pay a lot of money
for that no that’s okay if in fact all
you get from that is someone trying to
sell your shoes but when hackers use
those same facilities or the government
then we lose our privacy we have people
watching us because these operating
systems are designed to find out as much
about you as possible did you watch the
congressional hearing no I acted it
would be nonsense hey Mark Zuckerberg
got nothing to do with it it’s ourselves
you know we we want everything and we
expect everything well the world doesn’t
work out interesting different point of
view you know I don’t think it’s a
different I think that most
technologists would agree with me that
you know once you log on to the internet
your privacy is gone so you have a
choice keep your privacy or go okay well
I’m gonna be very careful about what I
input you know people ask me mark for my
I just don’t give it to them in a
certain information you do not get and
if I cannot get on to your site then
I’ll go somewhere else so the only are
you pretty active on all social media
sites right normally just Twitter are
you active on all social sites or –
where’s quick account I’m not too active
on I have a youtube channel
mostly it’s Twitter most least Twitter
okay
so whatever Mark Zuckerberg said or
doesn’t you know the informations going
to be used you know for whatever
organization is going to contact and so
that’s a consumer needs to know that if
you’re gonna do it if you don’t want to
do it get off and don’t share your stuff
with people that they can use against
you right okay don’t get on social media
sites but they are valuable so be me I
don’t expect privacy I was not at all
surprised at that Facebook you don’t
expect privacy of course I don’t I mean
if I want privacy I have to take care of
it I have to be careful about what I
input I have to be careful about what
what media sites I’m young what machine
I’m using to access those sites if you
input your name and your address your
age you better expect everybody in the
world to have access to that whatever
you put down on any media site you must
expect the entire world to see that so
I’m very careful with what I put down do
I care if the world noses no if I do
care and then I don’t go on so so let me
ask you when you were running McAfee for
that from 87 and 94 until you resigned
that seven year period was there ever
times when somebody really tried to
break into a computer system of
somebody’s and you got alerted where you
were so concerned we said I got to pick
up the phone and call the NSA or FBI did
that ever happen all the time all the
time said I was enorm
well of course I mean that was that was
on viruses the first coming out and they
were destroying people’s systems you
know destroying all of your data doing
terrible things so of course when you
got it into corporations people were
losing corporations were losing millions
of dollars so of course they call the
FBI gotta if you don’t mind us going
back who are you in high school I’m just
really curious if I went to high school
with you in tenth grade junior year who
was John McAfee in high school I don’t
know I was a crazy character I got
almost straight A’s I studied hard
and did not go out for sports that was
it I was a nerd truly you weren’t hurt
so you were not Hardy and you didn’t
have the girlfriend you weren’t playing
squirrel friends yeah I mean nerds had
girlfriends back then I know if you’re
smart got it
so after high school you know um when I
when I study some of this things things
that you you pursued you were I think
you were Xerox Lockheed and you were
nestled right prior to starting a McAfee
so at what point you said you know I
just think I want to start this
antivirus software what inspired you
want to start McAfee although that was
sort of an accident you know I had I was
living with our brother-in-law in Santa
Clara California and he was reading the
local newspaper about this thing called
brand-new thing computer virus and he
was reading it out loud get me that
paper so I could read the article I
thought good lord what is this thing I
mean a virus it could replicate itself
live moving from one machine to another
well that was fascinating so I said I
thought about it how on earth could
someone do this and then it occurred to
me how they did it and at the same time
it occurred to me how I could stop it
so I just wrote a little program and I
ran a bulletin board system that was
bulletin boards were the precursor to
the Internet you know I had 16 phone
lines coming into my house I mean I only
have 16 simultaneously users but people
would download software from one
bulletin board uploaded to another and
in a matter of days millions of people
could could access things sorry I wrote
a little program and two weeks later
revived me and people were using it two
weeks later three weeks later 1987 two
weeks later five million people were
using it yes you saw that kind of growth
in two weeks
yes that is unbelievable that is
unbelievable well I was the only one
that had a program for it at that time
at that time and so immediately
everybody said I need to have someone
like this to protect myself everybody
right God and I thought that was that
was that was the end of it but then two
weeks later another virus occurred
called The Jerusalem virus and then they
just started coming a hot and heavy and
I had to keep updated with all these
viruses so pretty soon everybody was
using the mcafee virusscan unbelievable
how this whole thing gets started so an
excellent or it’s a purely accidental
anything they have
I thought well he’s worried run this
program when you were going at that time
were you connected with the jobs and the
gates was there a relationship there or
not at all and where you were completely
that time not at that time
kada and and uh it didn’t Intel end up
buying McAfee in 2011 for some seven
point seven billion I think $48 a share
some number like that and now today you
can’t get on a computer without seeing
McAfee someone that’s your last name
that’s your name that’s all over the
place and so today you know you hear and
you read up on it how do you feel about
the product now since you’ve been away
from it since 1994 what do you think
about the product not twenty four years
later well antivirus software no longer
works that paradigm that I invented does
not work in the modern world of the
internet and hackers and the social
engineering new hacking techniques have
obviated virus scanning software that
it’s simpler it’s non-functional yet
everybody continues to buy it because
that’s all that they know but the
paradigm is is passed and I was the
first to say it you know five years ago
I went public and said virus scan
software is useless it cannot protect us
from modern modern threats it cannot
protect us ramada so what how do we
protect ourselves today well it’s not
the question I mean most hacking is
social engineering which is which is
problematic meaning it’s it’s using
people rather than hacking into a system
and trying to find passwords you start
calling secretaries or people in the
company and you have a story and they
suddenly give you the information rather
than you having to hack into it yourself
this is 99% of all hacks today 99% of
all this today got it so meaning that no
matter what I do if somebody really
wants to infiltrate my system and get
the information they want out of me
there’s really not much I can do about
it you know didn’t you say you designed
a phone that’s hack meaning hack proof
nobody can hack the phone that’s great
is that phone out for people to buy it
or not yet exactly well it was being
done through MGT I resigned from MGT a
couple months ago because I’m I was
bored it was you know I moved totally
into cryptocurrency but yeah the phone
is it’s pretty much hack truth
pretty much all the cloak phone and it
should be coming out in six months so
somebody could buy it six months from
now it’s eight so I said what will not
be my phone anymore belong to mgj to you
so you know yeah there was a book
written in the 80s called only the
paranoid survive you remember that book
I don’t is it was actually written by
the founder of Intel only the paranoid
survive do you think in a world like
this at benefits maybe not even benefits
it behooves people to be a little bit
more paranoid than they usually are yeah
you know I think I think paranoia serves
its purpose I mean it’s paranoia makes
you more aware of threats it makes you
pay attention I wouldn’t say people
should be paranoid people should be
cautious people should be aware that you
need to be aware of the threats you need
to be aware that when you log on to the
internet your expectation of privacy is
absurd you’re logged on to a system
where there are two billion computers
attached you know billion people who are
for interfacing and communicating and
watching you know a million hackers
trying to steal money family or
information or to find something that
they can blackmail you with this is the
world that you enter when you log on to
to the Internet and if you enter that
world thinking I’m perfectly safe
the world will take care of me well who
the hell is going to take care of you I
mean it’s my soccer Bergkamp Facebook
and Twitter can’t Google can’t I mean
Twitter they if you go onto Twitter
they’re probably 200 John McAfee zall
with my picture and everything else
there they’re all fake and this is gonna
news a couple of weeks ago Twitter has
tried to stop this and cannot too many
people are doing it they they they stop
one thing and they come in through
another avenue that kinda members a
different ID but the same photos how do
you feel about it well no feelings no
emotions or you either accept it or it
is what it is what it is you know it it
cannot be fixed Jesus live with it
so you
you think we’re going in the direction
of living a naked life which means you
know I can you know nowadays I can go
online within a five minute period I can
find out if you’re a Democrat Republican
what sports team you like married kids
how many kids age you know issues
frustrations you can pretty much find
that if somebody goes on there spends
five minutes do you think we’re going in
the direction where we are accepting our
privacy being taken away from us I
expect mine to be taken away well I
expect everything that I put into the
internet to be taken away if you put it
on the internet someone’s gonna get it
it’s a fact of life there’s no way to
prevent it so what you put into it you
better expect the world to know so III
use disinformation you know for example
I I bought a house and a new place in a
foreign country and I said it was in
Dominica put photographs in no no I’ve
never been to Dominica and I do not have
a house sir however those people who are
trying to find me are working for me I
mean you know you have to figure it out
yourself protect yourself by any means
possible disinformation no information
limited information but whatever you put
into the internet it’s it’s gone man
people gonna be looking at it and
reading and then watching it John when
you were running McAfee did because this
becomes one of my concerns you know how
they say whenever you have a computer
and you got the camera on the Apple
computer covered up and put a tape on it
yourself so they can’t see you because
they’re watching you all these other
conspiracies that you have to be looking
out for when when you went from zero to
five million customers have an interest
on the product your marketing within two
weeks d-did at that time the government
a government agency reached out to you
when they wanted to get information on
other people that they contact you did
you ever have moments where their
contact you knew saying hey we want to
know a little bit more about XYZ
thing is I didn’t know about XYZ I was
not in the business of gathering
information on my customers I didn’t
know who they were it was they
downloaded it for free it was free to
start with I only knew who someone was
if they called because they got a virus
sorry I didn’t have a database I had
nothing I could give to the government
now everybody in the government did in
fact contact me because they’re all
concerned
about viruses and the government was my
first major customer all aspects the
Defense Department the personnel
department everything so the US
government became really my largest
customer for the first year but I didn’t
have anything to give them I didn’t have
anything that’s a I knew nothing they
were just using your services what they
were using no nobody using my software
but back then software didn’t send home
where it was located who was using it
interesting so then there was we didn’t
sell information because there were no
buyers for it because no one had it back
Dinah’s sell information because it was
a buys for pardon there was no buyer
sport first of all we didn’t have it
even if we had it people didn’t know
what to do with it back then it was it
was a it was a brand new field personal
computers had just entered the world a
couple of years before so are you
certain like if you were to bet on this
one here are you certain that if a
government agency is a government agency
involved with a Google or Facebook or
some of these guys to get I mean that
smile says a lot but are you certain
certain of it that is taking place ah
absolutely yes please Lord would any
government allow Google Facebook Twitter
the can that has massive amounts of
information on everybody not just in
America but in the world do you think
they would allow that just to free go on
it on its way of course not please Lord
this is how governments work you think
I’m paranoid governments are paranoid
they’re all terrified of losing power of
change of revolution of the world
turning upside down so of course I mean
it makes it only makes sense if they are
not I then I don’t understand reality I
don’t understand how the world so you
are for what they’re doing no I’m not
saying for it I’m just saying of course
they’re doing it I’m not saying I’m for
it
I’m absolutely against it so what’s an
ideal situation I mean if they if
they’re worried about revolution or a
turning upside down what is the
alternative not doing anything about it
and leaving it alone well I mean you can
you can you can worry about these things
or or you can actually spy on your
people to make sure
doesn’t happen I’d much rather not worry
about either one let’s just continue as
America or is this London or as
Australia and and just let thing has
happened I don’t I don’t believe that a
government that spies on its people is
gonna stop people getting angry upset or
want to change the government I just
think about it this way I you know
because what you just said right now I’m
processing that I’m thinking about it so
if if you’re gonna come to fight me
tonight and I’m gonna bring 10 of my
guys you’re gonna bring 10 of your guys
and we’re meeting in pic at Clarksville
Kentucky okay or Clarksville Tennessee
and you know I’m coming with you know
semi-automatic weapons I got guns and
you’re coming with your you know okay
I’m a man’s man I’m just gonna fight you
with my knuckle you know I’m just gonna
fight you here my bare knuckles I mean
you know who’s gonna win that fight even
though it’s ten against us so if it’s me
I’m not gonna go I’m gonna have a dinner
with somebody you do have that choice
right but the point I’m trying to make
is if the government says well you know
we’re just not gonna do we leave
everybody to themselves a citizens gonna
do it and if a citizen does that those
gonna do what they’re gonna try to go
take some kind of control and you know
hack into people’s decision-making
process and see what they’re doing
wouldn’t that be happen if it isn’t
already of course that’s happening
that’s what the hackers is doing
constantly I mean let’s just look at
some of the major hacks now two and a
half years ago someone took 21 million
records from the United States first
Office of Personnel Management
that means everybody with top-secret
clearances everybody who has ever worked
for the US government for the past 50
years good God Almighty
do you realize what a what a major coup
that would have been in a war an act of
espionage of the scale of which has
never been attempted and it’s you know
some random person and in Russia or
China probably wandered and it just took
it it’s so easy to do is that why you
ran for presidential you know for
president you to be a president because
you said I think I heard you say one
time what we are worried about a nuclear
war is a last thing to worry about what
we need to be worried about is a cyber
war yeah is that what you’re referencing
that possibly that could happen one day
well of course I think it’s happening
today I think it’s already happening
we’re just since it is a cyber war we’re
not gonna see it we’re just gonna see
little little evidences here and there
because seriously a cyber war would be a
very inexpensive or I mean Korea has
2100 hackers it’s a group of government
hackers with the capacity to literally
take down any country in the world
including the US by any number of ways
hacking into our power grid shunting the
electricity in such a way that all of
our transformers burn out across America
now we have no electricity how do you
repair it
I don’t know Olivar of all of our repair
tools are electrically operated
everything goes south we don’t have any
electricity to run the plants to create
the food and can demand ship them so
that we can eat we don’t have the the
electricity to create fuel from raw oil
we have no nothing to run our cars on we
have no lights we have no heat
hospitals are down we have no emergency
services think about it now there’s no
nuclear war they could ever achieve that
there would always be pockets of we
would still have something but no so if
you were to if you were running for
office let’s just say you ran for office
and you got elected over Trump okay your
president what are you doing to make
sure that doesn’t happen
well you know number one I I had no
intention of ever getting elected no one
in the right mind I mean I could never
get elected president however running on
forum that allowed me to speak and to
tell what I think the problems in
America are and that’s that’s all I
asked for and that’s what I achieved but
boy if I was in Trump’s position I
wouldn’t I wouldn’t have a clue I mean
they’d have a clue I wouldn’t here and
here’s why it is so I mean I saw you
when you were talking about this it
sound like you were pretty you said and
I think you were speaking to was a lyric
it wasn’t lyric ink it was it was
somebody from Fox you were speaking you
said look I’m not just running because
I’m running I’m running because I really
feel this is an important issue with
cyber war and I feel I know what it
takes to be able to help you know
improve this situation so we’re talking
about one thing that
cyber war itself yeah number one I would
fire every every technician in the US
government because it what hang on there
every government agency and every
country in the world becomes a magnet
for people who want stability want
continuity wants security these aren’t
the people who design new creative
innovative systems now there are the
people that maintain the status quo well
the status quo is all up mmm
so no we we number one get rid of
everybody know that that’s gonna be very
hard number to restructure I would I
would go out and I would go to places
like DEFCON where all the hackers go to
conventions put up a US government booth
think we’re hiring alright and I’d hire
the people that we’re trying to fight
and they don’t look like government
employees these guys man smoke weed on
the job you know and they have Mohawks
and and Pierce tongues and that’s they
know whether they want yeah I could care
what people look like or how they act if
they can do the job and so so that’s not
going to happen either I mean it’s one
thing to say on Larry King or yes I know
what to do but in reality in reality I
mean that’s politics that’s the ability
for gogo I want to listen to what he
says next but in reality it’s it’s a
morass of of intertwined tiny evils of
the the tiny evils of Google and
Facebook we call them evils they you
know the the fact that we have no
privacy the fact that people are spying
the fact that the hackers can get into
anything and steal what they want the
fact that our financial system is is
very fragile in terms of factors really
wanted to attack America a couple of
thousand could bring us down financially
why don’t they we probably have the
ability to do the same thing to them but
know this this is you know we have let
things get out of control and we’ve done
it because we are lazy we are you know
why do we accept smart phones that have
the capacity find my location turn on my
camera turn on my microphone look at my
contacts see who our last called now
find out what I’m buying on
Amazon or what have you why do we accept
that because this makes our life easy so
you want to make your life easier you
you don’t want you probably don’t
remember time where phone numbers were
in your head what was your grandmother’s
phone number you know it right off the
bat
do you know anybody’s phone number now
other than your own and maybe your
wife’s I’m a math guy so for me I do but
most people don’t I fully understand
what you’re saying
Thanks pretty well for most people you
know contacts and I click that and so
that’s that is a great boon a great it
makes life easier
nothing is free again what do you think
that costs us let me let me ask you this
do you think we’re going to if so first
of all before me even asking this do you
think the election still is being
controlled by the people voting so do
you think we voted for or is there
enough you know it’s a little minute
later I’m on camera and you know I don’t
want the the feds busting down my door
but but no I don’t think we do control
who gets into office I think we are
deluding ourselves if we think that the
voting booths the union’s
the local people who control the voting
process do you think that if that is
truly absolutely 100% secure honest and
not tamper Abul with I am sorry if
you’re absolutely wrong and so if it can
be tampered with if it can be in any way
manipulated and it will be this is human
nature
so to think again that we actually have
control and we’re electing our presence
you might question that if I were you I
would I would seriously question the
reality of our voting system at this
pace that we’re going do you think we’re
gonna get to a point where a 35 year old
person or 36 your personal is going to
end up becoming the president because
they have a better easier way of what do
you call it have an easier way of you
know key words you know advertising
putting ads up and they get the word out
in a boom I got a 36-year president
because he knows how to be in the face
more than somebody else does do you what
Donald Trump doing now what is his is
his main tool for communicating with
America used to be the media you call
ins ever have a news conference in know
what is it he tweet something he tweets
something anybody was with 25 million
followers on anything whether it’s
Facebook or Twitter or you name it good
lord you have tremendous power and you
have tremendous influence because you
have the ear of your followers so of
course this can happen so do you think
we’re going in the direction of the
person that has the most followers ends
up becoming a president has the most
salient might be it might be wifey we
look we’re no longer it would reach the
point where we’re voting we go let’s
count okay so and so’s got 131 million
then you’re the president Wow so you
know I’m being facetious ya know I get
what you’re saying no not really and to
some degree can you not see that this is
this is a possibility so would that mean
that we would need to possibly possibly
reconsider our voting system if that’s
the direction we’re going because
somebody that has more reach you know
has a bigger voice that can get to a
bigger platform even if somebody else
has more sound values that’s going to
help protect the country better I don’t
think we will actually reach that point
because before then all of our board
voting will become electronic okay
computer controlled at that point it’s
the programmer who programs these
computers that will choose our
presidents I’m telling you the truth I
mean that’s a concern though Jeff please
god see you see the truth of this
because these are complex systems yeah
designed by hundreds or sometimes
thousands of people the man or woman who
understands the the internals the
connections the the the subroutines the
flow of logic the the most you can put
anything you want in there it can’t be
discovered it it’s too complex way to
con the bed they’re they’re called
backdoors for hackers for this I don’t
know what you’re going to call it but
you could put in there’s something where
where you
Thank You Jimmy where you um say okay
well you know we’re gonna decide who we
want to have present
when voting comes I’m just going to tell
all my machines you know give 51% to
this person there’s 49 to that person
yeah how trivial that would be that’s
what I’m saying I mean if that’s the
direction we’re going to right now where
the person with the biggest following
ends up winning you know then there may
be a time that we need to reconsider
ways and by the way just out of
curiosity how do you feel as it’s just
so viewer knows and I know how do you
feel about Trump as a president himself
I like to have okay god you’re not
saying anything we’re indirectly we’re
taking a shot at Trump saying because
he’s got a lot of followers
oh hell became a presidents not sure how
to think first of all I think the the
Twitter move was very smart he bypasses
because presidents are held hostage by
the media you gets into a press
conference they get to edit what they
want they get to put in their their own
skew their own color their own flavor to
what you have said but you can do it
easily enough for simply cutting things
out we organizing things in terms of
time sequence or whatever or focusing on
the biggest faux pas that you made well
know if you are doing it yourself in
these tiny bites of you know a hundred
and two hundred and eighty characters
the media is locked out the media is
shut out they have no more power no more
control thank God for that they hate
that thing well good they said you know
no no no disrespect to you and and you
guys but honestly this is what is wrong
with this country and every country the
the information flow funneled through a
few faces a few of agencies a few
stations Fox CNN CNBC that’s the problem
because if you watch the news is it news
and some stations are women with with
leather you know leather vests and and
low-cut blouse this is all it’s
a drama it’s entertainment is its self
you know self aggrandizement by the news
anchors who do you actually listen to is
there anybody where you say I respect
them value this person’s opinion anybody
in the media desi disguise
half-decent when he talks no nobody
nobody
so you’re valuing everything that’s
happening you’re trying to see what the
you know motive behind it is or how do
you and take it because again going back
to it going back to it you know like I
said earlier we trusted McAfee because
the guy running it was extremely
cautious and paranoid and he had to make
sure that hey you pay me for this
service because you don’t have to worry
about somebody hacking your computer
because I know exactly how hackers thing
so we said here you go 89 bucks here you
go six nine dollars we trust you keep
doing what you’re doing
as somebody that is as paranoid in its
wire the way you are I mean we’re
sitting in a place you got people
protect and you’ve got you got a piece
on the side so it’s not like we’re you
know you know it’s totally fine I was in
the military so we’re sitting here and
you know you are pretty protective of
your personal life and your liberties
and the choices that you’re making but
knowing that and if this is what we’re
going I mean what is the real solution
to it you know that that I am protecting
myself I have I have hired my security I
am carrying the keys I have structured
my life to protect myself the step one
is don’t ask someone else to do it for
you don’t expect the government don’t
expect your police short they are
designed to do this but if someone
breaks into my house puts a gun to my
head is there a magic button that I can
push that makes the policeman
immediately materialize between me and
the attacker no please God they are
there they’re not there to protect Eve
knows his protect and serve they come in
after the mess clean up and try to find
the perpetrator and prosecute him that’s
what this is all about nobody’s
protecting you you want Mark Zuckerberg
to protect your privacy good god please
he has no capacity to do so
neither is at his job right it’s our
jobs as citizens to make sure we take
care of ourselves that’s that’s as I see
it yeah if you’re over the age of 21
then please God don’t expect someone
else to make your decisions to weigh the
alternatives to protect yourself and
your family it’s your responsibility so
so let me ask you did you so again
follow up on this would you consume your
information from or do you at all
consume any content do you consume any
information yourself
I get it straight from the source if I
can I mean if I you know if if they’re
if they’re reporting on something that’s
happening in the Middle East I’m gonna
go to a Middle East station a Middle
East newspaper and find out from them
their their their their gutter you get
your source let’s let’s let’s get it
from multiple sources balance them out
but in most cases I just don’t care
because it’s all the same would you like
this one right here six yeah always
so in 1986 you’re not consuming any
content opinions you know Walter Cronk
somebody sent Buckley or good that
vedalam or not no not that I did not
keep my ear to the ground but I was
concerned with computer viruses and
security all those people I definitely I
was listening to them what did you
discover yesterday what about this virus
where do you think this is going do you
think I’ll let me tell you why please I
don’t want to sound cynical and and
obtuse but what is the purpose of the
media is it not to make money
mysteriously please God whoever you work
for they’re expecting you to make money
how do you make money by creating the
most interesting content if it’s news
the most interesting story if it’s not
interesting you damn well better make it
interesting and how do you make it
interesting you find some perspective
some weird strength perfectas I look at
this from this angle what a horrible
person want a horrible event why because
I thought we’re traveling down the
highway and there’s a massive accident
what happens everything stops withstand
so we all want to see it as though the
grandmother baking pies by the highway
do we give a now we do not it’s
human nature and so in order to make
money which is your job this you’re
doing this to make money are you doing
this for free this I’m not making money
on I run a financial firm this is just a
YouTube channel we have I don’t work for
Fox and I’m gonna ban so you expect to
make money off this somehow oh no
that’ll break for ya director sure
absolutely I mean it’s like you running
McAfee right you’re running it to make
money but partially I agree with what
you’re saying on the part that and so
that’s one of the reasons why I’m asked
you know I’m asking you to know if
somebody’s watching a scene so what do I
give my source where I can say you know
my opinion is always watch both sides to
kind of get the argument if somebody’s
building this side up study the others
have somebody’s building to side up
watch the other side but how do you know
what information is coming maybe someone
doesn’t have your liner we store common
sense so let’s start with the fact that
they’re there to make money so obviously
you’re going to try to beef up your
story in such a way that you make the
most money how you do that you get the
most fuse how do you get the most views
to have the most radical story or the
most unusual thing anybody would
disagree with that I think a so let’s
start with this let’s start with that so
I’m watching the news and somebody says
something and they’re focusing on this
my first question is that doesn’t sound
right I’m sorry it just doesn’t sound
like human nature I mean because what is
human nature we are loving people we are
we are hopeful we have dreams and and we
are compassionate we have grace but then
we also have anger and fear are we
jealous people aren’t we greedy people
I’ll take that package and you put that
inside I’ll put that in the guy who’s
telling you the story because that’s
who’s telling the story the guy who has
thank you sir the guy who has grace
compassion fear jealousy and greed
okay that’s he’s telling the story each
of these things are gonna manifest in
the story you’re getting a story through
this man you’re not getting the story
the story would be the man just shutting
the shutting up and just showing videos
this this and you figure it out no
instead we have a commentator someone
who will explain this to you
you’re over 21 do you need self
explained to you please if you do then
you know you you need to do something
with yourself if you don’t why are you
even watching this why are you even
watching someone tell you what’s really
happening so you’re actually saying
don’t consume content no what’s the
point okay complete different
perspective interesting so so let me ask
you to follow up on that do you do you
actually believe that Russia did have
any kind of involvement in it or no
that’s not new to you it’s I don’t think
had anything to do with the election I’m
almost certain that Platt least from a
hacking standpoint that Russia had
nothing to do with it from the hacking
stamp on the hacking of the DNC all of
these other things from elect no
absolutely why because everything
pointed to the Russians think about it
all right so the DNC they found the mail
where it had the Russian language it had
a compile time that matched the business
hours in Moscow it had a Cyrillic
keyboard it was used that’s the Russian
keyboard that’s that’s used to create
the program on and on and on please God
do you think that anyone in the Kremlin
anybody who is part of the Russian state
no imagine Igor you left your name in
the program oh yeah I’m sorry boss my my
wife was sick I ran home at lunch I
forgot do you think that actually
happens please god no you don’t leave
your language the time of the compile
names the type of keyboards you use
everything that points to you as Russia
do you actually think the CIA of the NSA
would do that yeah we’re going to Hank
Russia but we don’t care what what you
know leezar it leave the english
language in there put washington in
there no please god you hide it so
you’re not going to do something at that
level something that that horrific and
be lacks about writing the program that
actually does it this is the typical
thing that hackers do to point away from
themselves and toward their worst enemy
kind of like when you said the house you
bought a house recently and you said my
house is located in this area but i’ve
never been to that place but know why we
don’t we don’t know anywhere yeah yeah
so so so okay to follow up on that so
you I think at one point you worked with
Booz Allen as a on the top five
consulting firms and I think Snowden
also worked there at some point he
worked there as well himself obviously
different responsibilities but you know
they have a lot of credibility for what
they do what do you think a Snowden is
or some of these whistleblowers are for
the
please do you think they do good or do
you think do you think they do bad for
the information they’re giving it given
to us when we see all of sin you’re like
oh my gosh this is really what happened
should I believe it should I not believe
it MSNBC said you shouldn’t read it
anyways it’s private information it
shouldn’t be something you should you
should be embarrassing yourself you read
oh you should read it
what do you think about us snowed in the
marketplace first and foremost you’re
taking Snowden the definition the the
character that the person has created by
the media as the truth that he in fact
did well he didn’t think we’re for his
own he was a whistleblower if he ended
up in Russia tada tada do you guys how
many other alternatives there are they
yes that he still works for the CIA and
this is some massive disinformation
thing that is keeping the world occupied
while the CIA does something totally
different you think that’s not a
possibility do you think there are
10,000 there are 10,000 different ways
we can define what Edward Snowden is and
why he did what he did is it good for
the market well hell yes anything that
brings attention to any specific area of
life is good for that area of life
that’s a fact of life be whether it’s
good or whether it’s bad I mean the PT
Barnum said it the best there is no such
thing as bad press if they spell your
name right because in the end people
remember the name and everything else
gets lost in the shuffle of life but yes
to the read into it is that is that a
good thing is is it is is me the the the
person that’s trying to use my common
sense to come up with a proper opinion
an educated opinion should I take his
information and say I’m gonna consider
this when it comes out to poll time to
vote if you think is about sebuah then
you would take that information and use
it for the good if you think it’s it’s
disinformation there was planned
ten years ago by the CIA and Edward
Snowden is one of these great actors I
mean first and foremost please why
didn’t anybody ask how he ended up in
Russia if you could make him watch
things he was in Hong Kong alright I was
in Hong Kong I was really on the run
I’ve just fade into the back alleys of
Hong Kong
I’m a technician you know grab some cute
little you know Hong Kong girl and get
an apartment somewhere and live happy
ever after but he was on his way to
Ecuador keeps us in mind was he not
mm-hm he was on his way to Ecuador why
Ecuador’s the place that once you get
there you know you’re not gonna no one’s
gonna get you out how from Hong Kong he
goes to Russia to then go to Ecuador
and we get to Russia these not allowed
to leave now right off the bat Meyer you
know I travel a lot and I know the
routes that people take if I want to get
to to Ecuador from Hong Kong the last
country in the world I’d go through is
Russia
you’ve got 50 different options there
you can direct flights makan to Ecuador
so so I you know it’s hard for me to say
is it good is it bad I don’t have all
the facts and neither do you and neither
do any of you you have the facts that
the media has given you and the story
and the media as we are well aware will
modify stories according to how much
money they’re going to make from this
story and destroyed so you know James
Comey just came out with a new book it’s
called a higher loyalty what do you
think about James Comey in this whole
situation you know one minute he’s
saying here’s what happened another
minute he’s saying that’s what happened
what do you think about James comers
position right now or do you have an
opinion on it at all I only have
opinions on things I have personal
experience with my only personal
experience with James Comey is a year
and a half ago when the FBI wanted a
master key for the the iPhone that was
taken from the shooter in California he
the quote terrorists one of the master
key yeah I got up in arms because that
would be the worst thing that ever
happened in the world and so on a
Wednesday and this is all documented on
a Wednesday out of 15-minute debate with
the James Rogers who is the mouthpiece
of the FBI one of the slickest
as I’ve ever come up against so we had a
15 minute debate but but I really
researched his background no way to win
a debate on his terms and and because he
comes in saying you want privacy or
security so I changed the debate at the
at the table and said well I’m not I
don’t know anything about privacy versus
security I wish I did we could talk
about it but I’m one I don’t like to
talk about security versus less security
because if you get a master key
America’s gonna be less secure okay so
that sort of threw him off and at the
end he said well maybe we can work
together okay that was on a Wednesday on
a Monday James Comey and by the way I
said please give me the phone I will
unlock it and give it back to you
tomorrow
I’ve said that publicly more times than
than once
everybody knew on Monday James Comey is
testifying in Congress the specific
question was mr. Comey have you pursued
every offer of help he said yes we have
that sort of nobody ever called
me after that mmm nobody called me and
I’d been talking for two weeks saying I
will unlock the phone so no they did not
pursue my offer of help and to think
that mr. Comey would not be aware that I
had offered to help after this
CNN you know national broadcast it’s
it’s it’s untenable to think he did not
know that so in Congress he lied he lied
to Congress Joyce what an offense that
is in America he said yes sir we have
pursued every happening not one FBI
agent no one not even a secretary called
me to say well what are your terms can
you really do it no they did not pursue
my offer of help that’s all I know about
mr. Comey that’s all I can say what
conclusion you come up with that would
you come up at anything the FBI like any
law enforcement agency from local police
on up that has enormous power will have
enormous corruption
I mean power corrupts it does if you’d
if you don’t see that or know that but
please read some of the philosophers or
you know just do some google search
power corrupts absolute power corrupts
absolutely
the FBI is a very powerful organization
so of course they have corruption now
it’s not Universal it’s not every agent
but it’s a lot it has to be and it
certainly affected mr. Comey this is all
I know personally about the man this is
not secondhand information this is my
observation having dealt with the FBI at
that level should the average citizen
trust the FBI based on what you’re
saying oh the average person Tim trusts
anybody I mean I don’t want to be
cynical again but please what does that
mean trust somebody I mean please let’s
get down to the nitty-gritty I mean
anybody in a time of war who’s ever been
tortured or was a torturer knows the
following you will talk you will turn in
your mother if the pain is intense
enough and long enough this is a fact of
life so do you trust your mother of
course you do to be a mother
but what does that mean trust someone
trust someone walk with your wallet yeah
I’d probably just coming with my wallet
I’m a friend to steal it would be too
obvious trust him with my wife maybe a
little bit less trust him with my life
trust him with what what does that mean
do you trust somebody trust with what
sir because there’s no such thing as
trust meaning whatever happens I trust
you in this situation and in all
situations you cannot do that I wish you
could interesting perspective so so
let’s let’s transition a little bit to
Bitcoin and then and then we’ll wrap up
so when it comes to pit Bitcoin you you
know you have been known as one of the
bigger voices if not the biggest voice
in the Bitcoin world and you’ve said I
think your prediction was by the end of
2018
you think bitcoin is gonna hit 78,000 I
think your projection was 78,000 by the
end of 2018 I think I think you said a
million dollars when I have that I
didn’t like the 20 year 2018 projections
I made a 2020 production projection of
of 1 million I think you said 78,000 to
somebody for 2018
I seen 78,000 if I’m wrong you may have
seen that then it may have been written
but I promise you I did not say that
quite a few people said 40 $50,000
you’re probably even higher than that in
your estimation if it’s going to get to
a million by 2020 they’re saying 40 50
thousand dollars by the end of 2018 is
what many people are expecting that’s
now no my my figures at seventy eight
thousand by the end of 2018 yes so are
you familiar with Jordan Bell for the
guy the wolf of Wall Street yeah of
course I interviewed him I was at his
place and we were sitting out talking
about Bitcoin and I said tell me what
you think about Bitcoin what’s gonna
happen he says I am Telling You there
are not a lot of things I have
guarantees of I guarantee you bitcoin is
gonna have a sudden from wherever it’s
gonna go to all of a sudden nothing and
everyone’s gonna lose their but lose
their tail they’re gonna lose everything
they have you have a complete different
perspective on bit for me because the
way they describe it tell me your point
of view on Bitcoin why you think bitcoin
is going to go to million dollars by
2020
Jois to do it the most common way is to
take the number of users a Bitcoin
because as Bitcoin expands and its user
base both people who who hold the coin
and people who accept the coin for
payment
it’s skyrocketing it’s skyrocketing so
it’s not going to disappear it can’t
possibly go to zero it can only grow as
the user base grows so it’s impossible
Belfort thought of how smart he is he’s
wrong he does not understand digital
currencies and how they worked
listen it’s it’s Pandora’s Box the box
has been open the spirits are invading
the room and they will not go back in
and you have to believe me
digital currencies will replace fiat
currencies why good god I have a wallet
on my phone which is an entire bank
lending money sending wires I don’t have
to go to the bank it takes me 10 seconds
to do a wire Tim I’ve got to go down to
the bank fill out a bunch of forms no
that’s nonsense
other than nonsense do you think that is
going to go to zero and are and we’re
going to go back to this incredibly dull
and bizarre way of using money with
banks please God so
I got a rebuttal for that one a question
for you so for me you know I’ve been in
the financial industry for a while
series 766 I’m you know I run an
insurance company we we do pretty well
for ourselves the part that concerns me
with Bitcoin I I really want to hear
your rebuttal on this when Jamie diamond
is touching 7 trillion dollars of money
per day of transactions that’s not just
money that’s a lot of political power
but a lot of countries that are
connected to that 7 trillion dollars yes
and so he is one phone call away from so
many different Prime Minister’s
presidents kings sheiks whatever you
want to call it because my he’s touching
all these mom and I’m not talking small
money we’re talking big money you know
what i’ma destroy seven trillion there’s
a lot of money okay so half of our gross
domestic product if it goes in the
direction of these 21 million
you know bitcoins being used and for
millions lost I think I don’t know the
number that was lost I think it’s four
million of them that was lost some
number like that don’t you think a guy
like that and these guys who control
elections and control all these other
things don’t you think they’re gonna
make a phone call and you know they’re
gonna say hey listen mr. congressman mr.
senator you want to do this again you
gotta make sure you take care of this
thing you you cannot let this Bitcoin
stuff take off the way that this is out
of control already don’t you think if
they’re gonna make those calls to figure
out a way to do what they’ve always done
which is listen small business owner
wants to compete with the big business
owner how do you beat them very simple
big business owner goes to somebody and
helps them up financially in a political
side and says listen make the barriers
to enter more difficult how do you do it
more regulations more licensing more
laws more rules more this stuff and so
the new guy cannot come and compete with
this guy he has in a sense a monopoly
with two other companies if you want to
call her monopoly so that is my only
concern with a the argument you’re
making is but you’re assuming that
Congress might whatever laws they want
obviously they can outlaw Bitcoin they
can about go on you’re assuming that
there is a possibility of enforcing
those laws that’s utter nonsense
you cannot stop a distributed system
that is worldwide there is no law that
you can make if you had one person per
we
for citizen in the country 400 million
enforcers you still couldn’t do it well
because you unfortunately have to sleep
for some it’s important it’s not
possible okay
no admittedly the way the things were
six months ago when does when the
exchanges were centralized he could shut
down in exchange you can’t do that
anymore they’ve now decentralized
exchanges you can’t stop it you can’t
shut it down and you can’t know anything
about it so tell me sir how will you
enforce these magical laws that Congress
is gonna make Jamie Dimon has no power
in this world so let me ask you this
then a follow-up to that you remember
what happened with China
right when the China was going through
there and and Bitcoin dropped I think
from 10,000 to 6,000 I came back up
obviously to 10,000 but it dropped and I
think in in in a event or an interview
you said it dropped that was one of the
reasons because China new euro we know
whatever it is I was linked to that and
and on top of that they made it
difficult for users to use Bitcoin to
buy things okay so go to that choice so
what if somebody says let’s make it
difficult for these guys use their
Bitcoin
I don’t accept Bitcoin so then what
happens to Bitcoin but how are you gonna
make it difficult what are you gonna do
to make it difficult that’s why I don’t
accept it that’s fine
then you’re not gonna do business
because the guy who does and you’re not
connote is even accepting these
advertisers on the dark web it’d be nice
so what if chase comes and says no
problem I want merchant services
authorize that net they own it I do
business what authorize that net guess
what your rates when you accept money
from American Express from Visa
MasterCard is 1.25 you know how the
numbers they up but if you take Bitcoin
6.75%
but the banks doesn’t even know what’s
happening this is not through the banks
the banks not involved the bank has
nothing to do with this they don’t even
see it’s it’s an undercurrent because
once you get the exchange is distributed
nobody sees it
the banks have nothing to do with it
they write in fact go ahead and do what
you want to get credit card we’re not
using credit cards we got bitcoins what
are this and that let me explain to
where I’m coming from I own Bitcoin
myself so I’m not coming from a point of
view among that you know I’m just
playing devil’s advocate but here’s the
misconception the misconception is that
legislation can have teeth it’s not
possible this is a distributed war
old there is no legislation that can
touch it you can’t change it you can’t
fix it you can’t stop it you can’t
control it you can’t direct it you have
no power I don’t make the laws like
whatever you want it will make no
difference you are that’s certain about
it well I’m gonna technologist for God’s
sake we’re talking technology a lot of
technology people have been wrong in the
past before though
but you’re that’s not the technology
this is technology I’m telling you
something just like I can tell you
antivirus software does not work because
it cannot stop the hackers in the world
I’d say I said that earlier why because
it technologically can’t nothing can
know
same thing with Bitcoin you can’t stop
Bitcoin this is a fact technologically
impossible cannot be done sir is your
number on the million dollars based on a
math and I know you’re a math guy I
think you got a major in mathematics
right yeah I think you got a major
mathematics and as somebody who’s a math
guy and your brain is wired everything
is math did you come up with a million
dollar based on a formula or did you
come up with a million dollars of
assumption of what you think is gonna
say I came out of two ways I looked at
the number of users the user growth and
I chose the mean because it has to be
more than a million I can guarantee it
I came in it that way it came out with
maybe between three and seven million I
came at it through the mining way okay
which I believe is a lot more valid the
last Bitcoin to be mined
okay there’s 10,000 – Thank You Jimmy
the difficulty for that last Bitcoin is
going to be almost infinite it’s going
to cost four to five billion dollars to
mine that last coin and mine isn’t gonna
do it the value that coin has got to be
more than the work put into mine the
so if it cost let’s say even 1
billion dollars alright so one billion
dollars the last one well I should work
backwards from there and find out what
the end of 2020 is gonna be so two ways
come up with the same number between
that’s five million that’s probably the
thing one mean it’s way outside the
lower range so I’m very safe it’s it’s
fascinating watching your level of
conviction that you have is a fraud I’m
a little conviction I look at reality is
objectively not with what I wish it
would be but what it actually is
and it is not just Bitcoin I’m talking
about the entire because there are two
thousand other coins Bitcoin it’s not
not it
you know Bitcoin it’s less than a third
of the total a market cap for
alternative currencies so no you cannot
stop them you cannot change them you
cannot control them accept them and try
to fix your life to get in line with
reality okay so let me ask you this last
question on the topic of Bitcoin what
would your what would your if you were
to be the devil’s advocate of that same
exact argument what is the best argument
that you’ve gotten that’s made you
question the Bitcoin side or have you
had any has anybody said anything to me
or not yet or what what what if
governments don’t like it and stop it
okay
please you haven’t thought that through
people hell no one has ever shown me a
way to stop it they show me ways to
create laws well the good Lord make all
the laws you want we do that all the
time in the 1930s you made it a law that
you could not drink alcohol we consumed
more alcohol per capita during that
periods and in any period in American
history today what are we doing it’s
illegal federally and in most states
just Moke weed you find me a random
person it doesn’t smoke weed sir well
you don’t perhaps but maybe you do
somebody had a good time with you guys
earlier by the way really really cool
team you got here well thank you so much
for taking the time I mean I’ve enjoyed
your perspective on different views that
you have and and it’s interesting from
the place that you come and what you’ve
experienced and if you have actually if
you haven’t studied his past and what
he’s been a part of you got a pretty
interesting story is it true that
they’re thinking about making a movie
about you but Johnny Depp or playing
your part is that actually is that they
got played The Hollywood Reporter
reported it everyone said that’s
actually taking place with Johnny Depp
playing you yeah it was interesting I
was with the Donnie Brasco you remember
Donnie Brasco Joe Pistone we were with
him
couple months ago and Johnny Depp also
played him and I Johnny Depp is playing
you Johnny Depp likes playing these
strange
Hunter Thompson and yeah and your name
but if you’re gonna have anybody play
maze well be the guy that’s the best at
playing those parts I was agreement to
do it you’re more of a Morgan Freeman
guy I wanted Morgan Freeman I said I
wanted you and a Morgan Freeman to play
you yeah that would have been very how
was gonna play that he’s a good actor
you could play anything say he’s looking
at the skin color you know how do you
know I’m not black for there’s some skin
disease right do you play poker or no
are you a big poker player now I’m not a
big poker player but I’ll be happy to
play with you I’m sure I would be very
happy to donate my money based on how
you’re wired I get a feeling I do thank
you so much for your time really Jordan truly thank you
and I don’t want the as the feds busting
down my doors so if you have a computer
and you have any kind of antivirus
software on your computer that says
McAfee I am sitting with the founder of
that antivirus software John McAfee and
a few other things to tell you about
John before we get into it he’s probably
got one of the most I mean there’s so
many ways stories you read about him
that’s just so interesting when you read
about him former presidential candidate
I think when you ran you ran on a
libertarian slash cyber party it was a
limited year Libertarian Party 1987
founded McAfee and in 1996 t-cells had
made a lot of money at that time if
social media was around 1994-1996 he’d
probably you probably have tens of
millions of people following you on your
you know views that you have in place so
again I can say a lot of things about
yourself you say let’s just keep it
simple and get into it John thank you so
much sir for taking the time for
visiting with us truly appreciate it if
we can get right into it you know so
right now you know you saw what happened
with last week two weeks ago everybody’s
curious to know what’s going on with
Mark Zuckerberg Facebook all of these
other things and I know you yourself
having been on the other side when
you’re running the software and you kind
of trying to protect us and in a space
like that one you were running at McAfee
was known as probably number one because
it was ran by people who were extremely
paranoid which is what you would want so
when you see that today and you see
what’s going on with Facebook what are
you thinking about
well I’m thinking people are foolish if
you believe you can go onto the internet
sign-on to a social media site and
expect to have privacy
that’s ridiculous how do these companies
make money seriously Google Google makes
money by knowing where you are what you
behind who you is who your contacts are
who you’re let’s talk to you where
you’re eating your your dinner this is
how everybody makes money and to think
that you’re going to get these free
services
seriously how valuable to you is Google
how often do you google something to
find out anything you know we’re the
next clothing super squats on the movies
you know something to help you children
with their homework constantly
invaluable or does it cost you
zero zero please nothing is free nothing
is free I mean my parents told me that I
told my children that what you are
paying is your privacy please
so to be shocked that Facebook is
selling your data or allowing people to
have access to it I’m sorry this is
foolish it’s utterly foolish so if you
want to use free services and you’re
paying nothing for them why then are you
upset that they’re taking the data that
you input in selling it I mean to expect
privacy in this world where hackers can
see anything the government can see
anything that our telephones our of our
smartphones are designed to spy on us
that serves as their designed pardon
they’re designed to spy on us of course
they are because how again do they make
money the they have application
interfaces that let them access your
location your contacts who you’re
calling what you’re buying
why because marketers pay a lot of money
for that no that’s okay if in fact all
you get from that is someone trying to
sell your shoes but when hackers use
those same facilities or the government
then we lose our privacy we have people
watching us because these operating
systems are designed to find out as much
about you as possible did you watch the
congressional hearing no I acted it
would be nonsense hey Mark Zuckerberg
got nothing to do with it it’s ourselves
you know we we want everything and we
expect everything well the world doesn’t
work out interesting different point of
view you know I don’t think it’s a
different I think that most
technologists would agree with me that
you know once you log on to the internet
your privacy is gone so you have a
choice keep your privacy or go okay well
I’m gonna be very careful about what I
input you know people ask me mark for my
I just don’t give it to them in a
certain information you do not get and
if I cannot get on to your site then
I’ll go somewhere else so the only are
you pretty active on all social media
sites right normally just Twitter are
you active on all social sites or –
where’s quick account I’m not too active
on I have a youtube channel
mostly it’s Twitter most least Twitter
okay
so whatever Mark Zuckerberg said or
doesn’t you know the informations going
to be used you know for whatever
organization is going to contact and so
that’s a consumer needs to know that if
you’re gonna do it if you don’t want to
do it get off and don’t share your stuff
with people that they can use against
you right okay don’t get on social media
sites but they are valuable so be me I
don’t expect privacy I was not at all
surprised at that Facebook you don’t
expect privacy of course I don’t I mean
if I want privacy I have to take care of
it I have to be careful about what I
input I have to be careful about what
what media sites I’m young what machine
I’m using to access those sites if you
input your name and your address your
age you better expect everybody in the
world to have access to that whatever
you put down on any media site you must
expect the entire world to see that so
I’m very careful with what I put down do
I care if the world noses no if I do
care and then I don’t go on so so let me
ask you when you were running McAfee for
that from 87 and 94 until you resigned
that seven year period was there ever
times when somebody really tried to
break into a computer system of
somebody’s and you got alerted where you
were so concerned we said I got to pick
up the phone and call the NSA or FBI did
that ever happen all the time all the
time said I was enorm
well of course I mean that was that was
on viruses the first coming out and they
were destroying people’s systems you
know destroying all of your data doing
terrible things so of course when you
got it into corporations people were
losing corporations were losing millions
of dollars so of course they call the
FBI gotta if you don’t mind us going
back who are you in high school I’m just
really curious if I went to high school
with you in tenth grade junior year who
was John McAfee in high school I don’t
know I was a crazy character I got
almost straight A’s I studied hard
and did not go out for sports that was
it I was a nerd truly you weren’t hurt
so you were not Hardy and you didn’t
have the girlfriend you weren’t playing
squirrel friends yeah I mean nerds had
girlfriends back then I know if you’re
smart got it
so after high school you know um when I
when I study some of this things things
that you you pursued you were I think
you were Xerox Lockheed and you were
nestled right prior to starting a McAfee
so at what point you said you know I
just think I want to start this
antivirus software what inspired you
want to start McAfee although that was
sort of an accident you know I had I was
living with our brother-in-law in Santa
Clara California and he was reading the
local newspaper about this thing called
brand-new thing computer virus and he
was reading it out loud get me that
paper so I could read the article I
thought good lord what is this thing I
mean a virus it could replicate itself
live moving from one machine to another
well that was fascinating so I said I
thought about it how on earth could
someone do this and then it occurred to
me how they did it and at the same time
it occurred to me how I could stop it
so I just wrote a little program and I
ran a bulletin board system that was
bulletin boards were the precursor to
the Internet you know I had 16 phone
lines coming into my house I mean I only
have 16 simultaneously users but people
would download software from one
bulletin board uploaded to another and
in a matter of days millions of people
could could access things sorry I wrote
a little program and two weeks later
revived me and people were using it two
weeks later three weeks later 1987 two
weeks later five million people were
using it yes you saw that kind of growth
in two weeks
yes that is unbelievable that is
unbelievable well I was the only one
that had a program for it at that time
at that time and so immediately
everybody said I need to have someone
like this to protect myself everybody
right God and I thought that was that
was that was the end of it but then two
weeks later another virus occurred
called The Jerusalem virus and then they
just started coming a hot and heavy and
I had to keep updated with all these
viruses so pretty soon everybody was
using the mcafee virusscan unbelievable
how this whole thing gets started so an
excellent or it’s a purely accidental
anything they have
I thought well he’s worried run this
program when you were going at that time
were you connected with the jobs and the
gates was there a relationship there or
not at all and where you were completely
that time not at that time
kada and and uh it didn’t Intel end up
buying McAfee in 2011 for some seven
point seven billion I think $48 a share
some number like that and now today you
can’t get on a computer without seeing
McAfee someone that’s your last name
that’s your name that’s all over the
place and so today you know you hear and
you read up on it how do you feel about
the product now since you’ve been away
from it since 1994 what do you think
about the product not twenty four years
later well antivirus software no longer
works that paradigm that I invented does
not work in the modern world of the
internet and hackers and the social
engineering new hacking techniques have
obviated virus scanning software that
it’s simpler it’s non-functional yet
everybody continues to buy it because
that’s all that they know but the
paradigm is is passed and I was the
first to say it you know five years ago
I went public and said virus scan
software is useless it cannot protect us
from modern modern threats it cannot
protect us ramada so what how do we
protect ourselves today well it’s not
the question I mean most hacking is
social engineering which is which is
problematic meaning it’s it’s using
people rather than hacking into a system
and trying to find passwords you start
calling secretaries or people in the
company and you have a story and they
suddenly give you the information rather
than you having to hack into it yourself
this is 99% of all hacks today 99% of
all this today got it so meaning that no
matter what I do if somebody really
wants to infiltrate my system and get
the information they want out of me
there’s really not much I can do about
it you know didn’t you say you designed
a phone that’s hack meaning hack proof
nobody can hack the phone that’s great
is that phone out for people to buy it
or not yet exactly well it was being
done through MGT I resigned from MGT a
couple months ago because I’m I was
bored it was you know I moved totally
into cryptocurrency but yeah the phone
is it’s pretty much hack truth
pretty much all the cloak phone and it
should be coming out in six months so
somebody could buy it six months from
now it’s eight so I said what will not
be my phone anymore belong to mgj to you
so you know yeah there was a book
written in the 80s called only the
paranoid survive you remember that book
I don’t is it was actually written by
the founder of Intel only the paranoid
survive do you think in a world like
this at benefits maybe not even benefits
it behooves people to be a little bit
more paranoid than they usually are yeah
you know I think I think paranoia serves
its purpose I mean it’s paranoia makes
you more aware of threats it makes you
pay attention I wouldn’t say people
should be paranoid people should be
cautious people should be aware that you
need to be aware of the threats you need
to be aware that when you log on to the
internet your expectation of privacy is
absurd you’re logged on to a system
where there are two billion computers
attached you know billion people who are
for interfacing and communicating and
watching you know a million hackers
trying to steal money family or
information or to find something that
they can blackmail you with this is the
world that you enter when you log on to
to the Internet and if you enter that
world thinking I’m perfectly safe
the world will take care of me well who
the hell is going to take care of you I
mean it’s my soccer Bergkamp Facebook
and Twitter can’t Google can’t I mean
Twitter they if you go onto Twitter
they’re probably 200 John McAfee zall
with my picture and everything else
there they’re all fake and this is gonna
news a couple of weeks ago Twitter has
tried to stop this and cannot too many
people are doing it they they they stop
one thing and they come in through
another avenue that kinda members a
different ID but the same photos how do
you feel about it well no feelings no
emotions or you either accept it or it
is what it is what it is you know it it
cannot be fixed Jesus live with it
so you
you think we’re going in the direction
of living a naked life which means you
know I can you know nowadays I can go
online within a five minute period I can
find out if you’re a Democrat Republican
what sports team you like married kids
how many kids age you know issues
frustrations you can pretty much find
that if somebody goes on there spends
five minutes do you think we’re going in
the direction where we are accepting our
privacy being taken away from us I
expect mine to be taken away well I
expect everything that I put into the
internet to be taken away if you put it
on the internet someone’s gonna get it
it’s a fact of life there’s no way to
prevent it so what you put into it you
better expect the world to know so III
use disinformation you know for example
I I bought a house and a new place in a
foreign country and I said it was in
Dominica put photographs in no no I’ve
never been to Dominica and I do not have
a house sir however those people who are
trying to find me are working for me I
mean you know you have to figure it out
yourself protect yourself by any means
possible disinformation no information
limited information but whatever you put
into the internet it’s it’s gone man
people gonna be looking at it and
reading and then watching it John when
you were running McAfee did because this
becomes one of my concerns you know how
they say whenever you have a computer
and you got the camera on the Apple
computer covered up and put a tape on it
yourself so they can’t see you because
they’re watching you all these other
conspiracies that you have to be looking
out for when when you went from zero to
five million customers have an interest
on the product your marketing within two
weeks d-did at that time the government
a government agency reached out to you
when they wanted to get information on
other people that they contact you did
you ever have moments where their
contact you knew saying hey we want to
know a little bit more about XYZ
thing is I didn’t know about XYZ I was
not in the business of gathering
information on my customers I didn’t
know who they were it was they
downloaded it for free it was free to
start with I only knew who someone was
if they called because they got a virus
sorry I didn’t have a database I had
nothing I could give to the government
now everybody in the government did in
fact contact me because they’re all
concerned
about viruses and the government was my
first major customer all aspects the
Defense Department the personnel
department everything so the US
government became really my largest
customer for the first year but I didn’t
have anything to give them I didn’t have
anything that’s a I knew nothing they
were just using your services what they
were using no nobody using my software
but back then software didn’t send home
where it was located who was using it
interesting so then there was we didn’t
sell information because there were no
buyers for it because no one had it back
Dinah’s sell information because it was
a buys for pardon there was no buyer
sport first of all we didn’t have it
even if we had it people didn’t know
what to do with it back then it was it
was a it was a brand new field personal
computers had just entered the world a
couple of years before so are you
certain like if you were to bet on this
one here are you certain that if a
government agency is a government agency
involved with a Google or Facebook or
some of these guys to get I mean that
smile says a lot but are you certain
certain of it that is taking place ah
absolutely yes please Lord would any
government allow Google Facebook Twitter
the can that has massive amounts of
information on everybody not just in
America but in the world do you think
they would allow that just to free go on
it on its way of course not please Lord
this is how governments work you think
I’m paranoid governments are paranoid
they’re all terrified of losing power of
change of revolution of the world
turning upside down so of course I mean
it makes it only makes sense if they are
not I then I don’t understand reality I
don’t understand how the world so you
are for what they’re doing no I’m not
saying for it I’m just saying of course
they’re doing it I’m not saying I’m for
it
I’m absolutely against it so what’s an
ideal situation I mean if they if
they’re worried about revolution or a
turning upside down what is the
alternative not doing anything about it
and leaving it alone well I mean you can
you can you can worry about these things
or or you can actually spy on your
people to make sure
doesn’t happen I’d much rather not worry
about either one let’s just continue as
America or is this London or as
Australia and and just let thing has
happened I don’t I don’t believe that a
government that spies on its people is
gonna stop people getting angry upset or
want to change the government I just
think about it this way I you know
because what you just said right now I’m
processing that I’m thinking about it so
if if you’re gonna come to fight me
tonight and I’m gonna bring 10 of my
guys you’re gonna bring 10 of your guys
and we’re meeting in pic at Clarksville
Kentucky okay or Clarksville Tennessee
and you know I’m coming with you know
semi-automatic weapons I got guns and
you’re coming with your you know okay
I’m a man’s man I’m just gonna fight you
with my knuckle you know I’m just gonna
fight you here my bare knuckles I mean
you know who’s gonna win that fight even
though it’s ten against us so if it’s me
I’m not gonna go I’m gonna have a dinner
with somebody you do have that choice
right but the point I’m trying to make
is if the government says well you know
we’re just not gonna do we leave
everybody to themselves a citizens gonna
do it and if a citizen does that those
gonna do what they’re gonna try to go
take some kind of control and you know
hack into people’s decision-making
process and see what they’re doing
wouldn’t that be happen if it isn’t
already of course that’s happening
that’s what the hackers is doing
constantly I mean let’s just look at
some of the major hacks now two and a
half years ago someone took 21 million
records from the United States first
Office of Personnel Management
that means everybody with top-secret
clearances everybody who has ever worked
for the US government for the past 50
years good God Almighty
do you realize what a what a major coup
that would have been in a war an act of
espionage of the scale of which has
never been attempted and it’s you know
some random person and in Russia or
China probably wandered and it just took
it it’s so easy to do is that why you
ran for presidential you know for
president you to be a president because
you said I think I heard you say one
time what we are worried about a nuclear
war is a last thing to worry about what
we need to be worried about is a cyber
war yeah is that what you’re referencing
that possibly that could happen one day
well of course I think it’s happening
today I think it’s already happening
we’re just since it is a cyber war we’re
not gonna see it we’re just gonna see
little little evidences here and there
because seriously a cyber war would be a
very inexpensive or I mean Korea has
2100 hackers it’s a group of government
hackers with the capacity to literally
take down any country in the world
including the US by any number of ways
hacking into our power grid shunting the
electricity in such a way that all of
our transformers burn out across America
now we have no electricity how do you
repair it
I don’t know Olivar of all of our repair
tools are electrically operated
everything goes south we don’t have any
electricity to run the plants to create
the food and can demand ship them so
that we can eat we don’t have the the
electricity to create fuel from raw oil
we have no nothing to run our cars on we
have no lights we have no heat
hospitals are down we have no emergency
services think about it now there’s no
nuclear war they could ever achieve that
there would always be pockets of we
would still have something but no so if
you were to if you were running for
office let’s just say you ran for office
and you got elected over Trump okay your
president what are you doing to make
sure that doesn’t happen
well you know number one I I had no
intention of ever getting elected no one
in the right mind I mean I could never
get elected president however running on
forum that allowed me to speak and to
tell what I think the problems in
America are and that’s that’s all I
asked for and that’s what I achieved but
boy if I was in Trump’s position I
wouldn’t I wouldn’t have a clue I mean
they’d have a clue I wouldn’t here and
here’s why it is so I mean I saw you
when you were talking about this it
sound like you were pretty you said and
I think you were speaking to was a lyric
it wasn’t lyric ink it was it was
somebody from Fox you were speaking you
said look I’m not just running because
I’m running I’m running because I really
feel this is an important issue with
cyber war and I feel I know what it
takes to be able to help you know
improve this situation so we’re talking
about one thing that
cyber war itself yeah number one I would
fire every every technician in the US
government because it what hang on there
every government agency and every
country in the world becomes a magnet
for people who want stability want
continuity wants security these aren’t
the people who design new creative
innovative systems now there are the
people that maintain the status quo well
the status quo is all up mmm
so no we we number one get rid of
everybody know that that’s gonna be very
hard number to restructure I would I
would go out and I would go to places
like DEFCON where all the hackers go to
conventions put up a US government booth
think we’re hiring alright and I’d hire
the people that we’re trying to fight
and they don’t look like government
employees these guys man smoke weed on
the job you know and they have Mohawks
and and Pierce tongues and that’s they
know whether they want yeah I could care
what people look like or how they act if
they can do the job and so so that’s not
going to happen either I mean it’s one
thing to say on Larry King or yes I know
what to do but in reality in reality I
mean that’s politics that’s the ability
for gogo I want to listen to what he
says next but in reality it’s it’s a
morass of of intertwined tiny evils of
the the tiny evils of Google and
Facebook we call them evils they you
know the the fact that we have no
privacy the fact that people are spying
the fact that the hackers can get into
anything and steal what they want the
fact that our financial system is is
very fragile in terms of factors really
wanted to attack America a couple of
thousand could bring us down financially
why don’t they we probably have the
ability to do the same thing to them but
know this this is you know we have let
things get out of control and we’ve done
it because we are lazy we are you know
why do we accept smart phones that have
the capacity find my location turn on my
camera turn on my microphone look at my
contacts see who our last called now
find out what I’m buying on
Amazon or what have you why do we accept
that because this makes our life easy so
you want to make your life easier you
you don’t want you probably don’t
remember time where phone numbers were
in your head what was your grandmother’s
phone number you know it right off the
bat
do you know anybody’s phone number now
other than your own and maybe your
wife’s I’m a math guy so for me I do but
most people don’t I fully understand
what you’re saying
Thanks pretty well for most people you
know contacts and I click that and so
that’s that is a great boon a great it
makes life easier
nothing is free again what do you think
that costs us let me let me ask you this
do you think we’re going to if so first
of all before me even asking this do you
think the election still is being
controlled by the people voting so do
you think we voted for or is there
enough you know it’s a little minute
later I’m on camera and you know I don’t
want the the feds busting down my door
but but no I don’t think we do control
who gets into office I think we are
deluding ourselves if we think that the
voting booths the union’s
the local people who control the voting
process do you think that if that is
truly absolutely 100% secure honest and
not tamper Abul with I am sorry if
you’re absolutely wrong and so if it can
be tampered with if it can be in any way
manipulated and it will be this is human
nature
so to think again that we actually have
control and we’re electing our presence
you might question that if I were you I
would I would seriously question the
reality of our voting system at this
pace that we’re going do you think we’re
gonna get to a point where a 35 year old
person or 36 your personal is going to
end up becoming the president because
they have a better easier way of what do
you call it have an easier way of you
know key words you know advertising
putting ads up and they get the word out
in a boom I got a 36-year president
because he knows how to be in the face
more than somebody else does do you what
Donald Trump doing now what is his is
his main tool for communicating with
America used to be the media you call
ins ever have a news conference in know
what is it he tweet something he tweets
something anybody was with 25 million
followers on anything whether it’s
Facebook or Twitter or you name it good
lord you have tremendous power and you
have tremendous influence because you
have the ear of your followers so of
course this can happen so do you think
we’re going in the direction of the
person that has the most followers ends
up becoming a president has the most
salient might be it might be wifey we
look we’re no longer it would reach the
point where we’re voting we go let’s
count okay so and so’s got 131 million
then you’re the president Wow so you
know I’m being facetious ya know I get
what you’re saying no not really and to
some degree can you not see that this is
this is a possibility so would that mean
that we would need to possibly possibly
reconsider our voting system if that’s
the direction we’re going because
somebody that has more reach you know
has a bigger voice that can get to a
bigger platform even if somebody else
has more sound values that’s going to
help protect the country better I don’t
think we will actually reach that point
because before then all of our board
voting will become electronic okay
computer controlled at that point it’s
the programmer who programs these
computers that will choose our
presidents I’m telling you the truth I
mean that’s a concern though Jeff please
god see you see the truth of this
because these are complex systems yeah
designed by hundreds or sometimes
thousands of people the man or woman who
understands the the internals the
connections the the the subroutines the
flow of logic the the most you can put
anything you want in there it can’t be
discovered it it’s too complex way to
con the bed they’re they’re called
backdoors for hackers for this I don’t
know what you’re going to call it but
you could put in there’s something where
where you
Thank You Jimmy where you um say okay
well you know we’re gonna decide who we
want to have present
when voting comes I’m just going to tell
all my machines you know give 51% to
this person there’s 49 to that person
yeah how trivial that would be that’s
what I’m saying I mean if that’s the
direction we’re going to right now where
the person with the biggest following
ends up winning you know then there may
be a time that we need to reconsider
ways and by the way just out of
curiosity how do you feel as it’s just
so viewer knows and I know how do you
feel about Trump as a president himself
I like to have okay god you’re not
saying anything we’re indirectly we’re
taking a shot at Trump saying because
he’s got a lot of followers
oh hell became a presidents not sure how
to think first of all I think the the
Twitter move was very smart he bypasses
because presidents are held hostage by
the media you gets into a press
conference they get to edit what they
want they get to put in their their own
skew their own color their own flavor to
what you have said but you can do it
easily enough for simply cutting things
out we organizing things in terms of
time sequence or whatever or focusing on
the biggest faux pas that you made well
know if you are doing it yourself in
these tiny bites of you know a hundred
and two hundred and eighty characters
the media is locked out the media is
shut out they have no more power no more
control thank God for that they hate
that thing well good they said you know
no no no disrespect to you and and you
guys but honestly this is what is wrong
with this country and every country the
the information flow funneled through a
few faces a few of agencies a few
stations Fox CNN CNBC that’s the problem
because if you watch the news is it news
and some stations are women with with
leather you know leather vests and and
low-cut blouse this is all it’s
a drama it’s entertainment is its self
you know self aggrandizement by the news
anchors who do you actually listen to is
there anybody where you say I respect
them value this person’s opinion anybody
in the media desi disguise
half-decent when he talks no nobody
nobody
so you’re valuing everything that’s
happening you’re trying to see what the
you know motive behind it is or how do
you and take it because again going back
to it going back to it you know like I
said earlier we trusted McAfee because
the guy running it was extremely
cautious and paranoid and he had to make
sure that hey you pay me for this
service because you don’t have to worry
about somebody hacking your computer
because I know exactly how hackers thing
so we said here you go 89 bucks here you
go six nine dollars we trust you keep
doing what you’re doing
as somebody that is as paranoid in its
wire the way you are I mean we’re
sitting in a place you got people
protect and you’ve got you got a piece
on the side so it’s not like we’re you
know you know it’s totally fine I was in
the military so we’re sitting here and
you know you are pretty protective of
your personal life and your liberties
and the choices that you’re making but
knowing that and if this is what we’re
going I mean what is the real solution
to it you know that that I am protecting
myself I have I have hired my security I
am carrying the keys I have structured
my life to protect myself the step one
is don’t ask someone else to do it for
you don’t expect the government don’t
expect your police short they are
designed to do this but if someone
breaks into my house puts a gun to my
head is there a magic button that I can
push that makes the policeman
immediately materialize between me and
the attacker no please God they are
there they’re not there to protect Eve
knows his protect and serve they come in
after the mess clean up and try to find
the perpetrator and prosecute him that’s
what this is all about nobody’s
protecting you you want Mark Zuckerberg
to protect your privacy good god please
he has no capacity to do so
neither is at his job right it’s our
jobs as citizens to make sure we take
care of ourselves that’s that’s as I see
it yeah if you’re over the age of 21
then please God don’t expect someone
else to make your decisions to weigh the
alternatives to protect yourself and
your family it’s your responsibility so
so let me ask you did you so again
follow up on this would you consume your
information from or do you at all
consume any content do you consume any
information yourself
I get it straight from the source if I
can I mean if I you know if if they’re
if they’re reporting on something that’s
happening in the Middle East I’m gonna
go to a Middle East station a Middle
East newspaper and find out from them
their their their their gutter you get
your source let’s let’s let’s get it
from multiple sources balance them out
but in most cases I just don’t care
because it’s all the same would you like
this one right here six yeah always
so in 1986 you’re not consuming any
content opinions you know Walter Cronk
somebody sent Buckley or good that
vedalam or not no not that I did not
keep my ear to the ground but I was
concerned with computer viruses and
security all those people I definitely I
was listening to them what did you
discover yesterday what about this virus
where do you think this is going do you
think I’ll let me tell you why please I
don’t want to sound cynical and and
obtuse but what is the purpose of the
media is it not to make money
mysteriously please God whoever you work
for they’re expecting you to make money
how do you make money by creating the
most interesting content if it’s news
the most interesting story if it’s not
interesting you damn well better make it
interesting and how do you make it
interesting you find some perspective
some weird strength perfectas I look at
this from this angle what a horrible
person want a horrible event why because
I thought we’re traveling down the
highway and there’s a massive accident
what happens everything stops withstand
so we all want to see it as though the
grandmother baking pies by the highway
do we give a now we do not it’s
human nature and so in order to make
money which is your job this you’re
doing this to make money are you doing
this for free this I’m not making money
on I run a financial firm this is just a
YouTube channel we have I don’t work for
Fox and I’m gonna ban so you expect to
make money off this somehow oh no
that’ll break for ya director sure
absolutely I mean it’s like you running
McAfee right you’re running it to make
money but partially I agree with what
you’re saying on the part that and so
that’s one of the reasons why I’m asked
you know I’m asking you to know if
somebody’s watching a scene so what do I
give my source where I can say you know
my opinion is always watch both sides to
kind of get the argument if somebody’s
building this side up study the others
have somebody’s building to side up
watch the other side but how do you know
what information is coming maybe someone
doesn’t have your liner we store common
sense so let’s start with the fact that
they’re there to make money so obviously
you’re going to try to beef up your
story in such a way that you make the
most money how you do that you get the
most fuse how do you get the most views
to have the most radical story or the
most unusual thing anybody would
disagree with that I think a so let’s
start with this let’s start with that so
I’m watching the news and somebody says
something and they’re focusing on this
my first question is that doesn’t sound
right I’m sorry it just doesn’t sound
like human nature I mean because what is
human nature we are loving people we are
we are hopeful we have dreams and and we
are compassionate we have grace but then
we also have anger and fear are we
jealous people aren’t we greedy people
I’ll take that package and you put that
inside I’ll put that in the guy who’s
telling you the story because that’s
who’s telling the story the guy who has
thank you sir the guy who has grace
compassion fear jealousy and greed
okay that’s he’s telling the story each
of these things are gonna manifest in
the story you’re getting a story through
this man you’re not getting the story
the story would be the man just shutting
the shutting up and just showing videos
this this and you figure it out no
instead we have a commentator someone
who will explain this to you
you’re over 21 do you need self
explained to you please if you do then
you know you you need to do something
with yourself if you don’t why are you
even watching this why are you even
watching someone tell you what’s really
happening so you’re actually saying
don’t consume content no what’s the
point okay complete different
perspective interesting so so let me ask
you to follow up on that do you do you
actually believe that Russia did have
any kind of involvement in it or no
that’s not new to you it’s I don’t think
had anything to do with the election I’m
almost certain that Platt least from a
hacking standpoint that Russia had
nothing to do with it from the hacking
stamp on the hacking of the DNC all of
these other things from elect no
absolutely why because everything
pointed to the Russians think about it
all right so the DNC they found the mail
where it had the Russian language it had
a compile time that matched the business
hours in Moscow it had a Cyrillic
keyboard it was used that’s the Russian
keyboard that’s that’s used to create
the program on and on and on please God
do you think that anyone in the Kremlin
anybody who is part of the Russian state
no imagine Igor you left your name in
the program oh yeah I’m sorry boss my my
wife was sick I ran home at lunch I
forgot do you think that actually
happens please god no you don’t leave
your language the time of the compile
names the type of keyboards you use
everything that points to you as Russia
do you actually think the CIA of the NSA
would do that yeah we’re going to Hank
Russia but we don’t care what what you
know leezar it leave the english
language in there put washington in
there no please god you hide it so
you’re not going to do something at that
level something that that horrific and
be lacks about writing the program that
actually does it this is the typical
thing that hackers do to point away from
themselves and toward their worst enemy
kind of like when you said the house you
bought a house recently and you said my
house is located in this area but i’ve
never been to that place but know why we
don’t we don’t know anywhere yeah yeah
so so so okay to follow up on that so
you I think at one point you worked with
Booz Allen as a on the top five
consulting firms and I think Snowden
also worked there at some point he
worked there as well himself obviously
different responsibilities but you know
they have a lot of credibility for what
they do what do you think a Snowden is
or some of these whistleblowers are for
the
please do you think they do good or do
you think do you think they do bad for
the information they’re giving it given
to us when we see all of sin you’re like
oh my gosh this is really what happened
should I believe it should I not believe
it MSNBC said you shouldn’t read it
anyways it’s private information it
shouldn’t be something you should you
should be embarrassing yourself you read
oh you should read it
what do you think about us snowed in the
marketplace first and foremost you’re
taking Snowden the definition the the
character that the person has created by
the media as the truth that he in fact
did well he didn’t think we’re for his
own he was a whistleblower if he ended
up in Russia tada tada do you guys how
many other alternatives there are they
yes that he still works for the CIA and
this is some massive disinformation
thing that is keeping the world occupied
while the CIA does something totally
different you think that’s not a
possibility do you think there are
10,000 there are 10,000 different ways
we can define what Edward Snowden is and
why he did what he did is it good for
the market well hell yes anything that
brings attention to any specific area of
life is good for that area of life
that’s a fact of life be whether it’s
good or whether it’s bad I mean the PT
Barnum said it the best there is no such
thing as bad press if they spell your
name right because in the end people
remember the name and everything else
gets lost in the shuffle of life but yes
to the read into it is that is that a
good thing is is it is is me the the the
person that’s trying to use my common
sense to come up with a proper opinion
an educated opinion should I take his
information and say I’m gonna consider
this when it comes out to poll time to
vote if you think is about sebuah then
you would take that information and use
it for the good if you think it’s it’s
disinformation there was planned
ten years ago by the CIA and Edward
Snowden is one of these great actors I
mean first and foremost please why
didn’t anybody ask how he ended up in
Russia if you could make him watch
things he was in Hong Kong alright I was
in Hong Kong I was really on the run
I’ve just fade into the back alleys of
Hong Kong
I’m a technician you know grab some cute
little you know Hong Kong girl and get
an apartment somewhere and live happy
ever after but he was on his way to
Ecuador keeps us in mind was he not
mm-hm he was on his way to Ecuador why
Ecuador’s the place that once you get
there you know you’re not gonna no one’s
gonna get you out how from Hong Kong he
goes to Russia to then go to Ecuador
and we get to Russia these not allowed
to leave now right off the bat Meyer you
know I travel a lot and I know the
routes that people take if I want to get
to to Ecuador from Hong Kong the last
country in the world I’d go through is
Russia
you’ve got 50 different options there
you can direct flights makan to Ecuador
so so I you know it’s hard for me to say
is it good is it bad I don’t have all
the facts and neither do you and neither
do any of you you have the facts that
the media has given you and the story
and the media as we are well aware will
modify stories according to how much
money they’re going to make from this
story and destroyed so you know James
Comey just came out with a new book it’s
called a higher loyalty what do you
think about James Comey in this whole
situation you know one minute he’s
saying here’s what happened another
minute he’s saying that’s what happened
what do you think about James comers
position right now or do you have an
opinion on it at all I only have
opinions on things I have personal
experience with my only personal
experience with James Comey is a year
and a half ago when the FBI wanted a
master key for the the iPhone that was
taken from the shooter in California he
the quote terrorists one of the master
key yeah I got up in arms because that
would be the worst thing that ever
happened in the world and so on a
Wednesday and this is all documented on
a Wednesday out of 15-minute debate with
the James Rogers who is the mouthpiece
of the FBI one of the slickest
as I’ve ever come up against so we had a
15 minute debate but but I really
researched his background no way to win
a debate on his terms and and because he
comes in saying you want privacy or
security so I changed the debate at the
at the table and said well I’m not I
don’t know anything about privacy versus
security I wish I did we could talk
about it but I’m one I don’t like to
talk about security versus less security
because if you get a master key
America’s gonna be less secure okay so
that sort of threw him off and at the
end he said well maybe we can work
together okay that was on a Wednesday on
a Monday James Comey and by the way I
said please give me the phone I will
unlock it and give it back to you
tomorrow
I’ve said that publicly more times than
than once
everybody knew on Monday James Comey is
testifying in Congress the specific
question was mr. Comey have you pursued
every offer of help he said yes we have
that sort of nobody ever called
me after that mmm nobody called me and
I’d been talking for two weeks saying I
will unlock the phone so no they did not
pursue my offer of help and to think
that mr. Comey would not be aware that I
had offered to help after this
CNN you know national broadcast it’s
it’s it’s untenable to think he did not
know that so in Congress he lied he lied
to Congress Joyce what an offense that
is in America he said yes sir we have
pursued every happening not one FBI
agent no one not even a secretary called
me to say well what are your terms can
you really do it no they did not pursue
my offer of help that’s all I know about
mr. Comey that’s all I can say what
conclusion you come up with that would
you come up at anything the FBI like any
law enforcement agency from local police
on up that has enormous power will have
enormous corruption
I mean power corrupts it does if you’d
if you don’t see that or know that but
please read some of the philosophers or
you know just do some google search
power corrupts absolute power corrupts
absolutely
the FBI is a very powerful organization
so of course they have corruption now
it’s not Universal it’s not every agent
but it’s a lot it has to be and it
certainly affected mr. Comey this is all
I know personally about the man this is
not secondhand information this is my
observation having dealt with the FBI at
that level should the average citizen
trust the FBI based on what you’re
saying oh the average person Tim trusts
anybody I mean I don’t want to be
cynical again but please what does that
mean trust somebody I mean please let’s
get down to the nitty-gritty I mean
anybody in a time of war who’s ever been
tortured or was a torturer knows the
following you will talk you will turn in
your mother if the pain is intense
enough and long enough this is a fact of
life so do you trust your mother of
course you do to be a mother
but what does that mean trust someone
trust someone walk with your wallet yeah
I’d probably just coming with my wallet
I’m a friend to steal it would be too
obvious trust him with my wife maybe a
little bit less trust him with my life
trust him with what what does that mean
do you trust somebody trust with what
sir because there’s no such thing as
trust meaning whatever happens I trust
you in this situation and in all
situations you cannot do that I wish you
could interesting perspective so so
let’s let’s transition a little bit to
Bitcoin and then and then we’ll wrap up
so when it comes to pit Bitcoin you you
know you have been known as one of the
bigger voices if not the biggest voice
in the Bitcoin world and you’ve said I
think your prediction was by the end of
2018
you think bitcoin is gonna hit 78,000 I
think your projection was 78,000 by the
end of 2018 I think I think you said a
million dollars when I have that I
didn’t like the 20 year 2018 projections
I made a 2020 production projection of
of 1 million I think you said 78,000 to
somebody for 2018
I seen 78,000 if I’m wrong you may have
seen that then it may have been written
but I promise you I did not say that
quite a few people said 40 $50,000
you’re probably even higher than that in
your estimation if it’s going to get to
a million by 2020 they’re saying 40 50
thousand dollars by the end of 2018 is
what many people are expecting that’s
now no my my figures at seventy eight
thousand by the end of 2018 yes so are
you familiar with Jordan Bell for the
guy the wolf of Wall Street yeah of
course I interviewed him I was at his
place and we were sitting out talking
about Bitcoin and I said tell me what
you think about Bitcoin what’s gonna
happen he says I am Telling You there
are not a lot of things I have
guarantees of I guarantee you bitcoin is
gonna have a sudden from wherever it’s
gonna go to all of a sudden nothing and
everyone’s gonna lose their but lose
their tail they’re gonna lose everything
they have you have a complete different
perspective on bit for me because the
way they describe it tell me your point
of view on Bitcoin why you think bitcoin
is going to go to million dollars by
2020
Jois to do it the most common way is to
take the number of users a Bitcoin
because as Bitcoin expands and its user
base both people who who hold the coin
and people who accept the coin for
payment
it’s skyrocketing it’s skyrocketing so
it’s not going to disappear it can’t
possibly go to zero it can only grow as
the user base grows so it’s impossible
Belfort thought of how smart he is he’s
wrong he does not understand digital
currencies and how they worked
listen it’s it’s Pandora’s Box the box
has been open the spirits are invading
the room and they will not go back in
and you have to believe me
digital currencies will replace fiat
currencies why good god I have a wallet
on my phone which is an entire bank
lending money sending wires I don’t have
to go to the bank it takes me 10 seconds
to do a wire Tim I’ve got to go down to
the bank fill out a bunch of forms no
that’s nonsense
other than nonsense do you think that is
going to go to zero and are and we’re
going to go back to this incredibly dull
and bizarre way of using money with
banks please God so
I got a rebuttal for that one a question
for you so for me you know I’ve been in
the financial industry for a while
series 766 I’m you know I run an
insurance company we we do pretty well
for ourselves the part that concerns me
with Bitcoin I I really want to hear
your rebuttal on this when Jamie diamond
is touching 7 trillion dollars of money
per day of transactions that’s not just
money that’s a lot of political power
but a lot of countries that are
connected to that 7 trillion dollars yes
and so he is one phone call away from so
many different Prime Minister’s
presidents kings sheiks whatever you
want to call it because my he’s touching
all these mom and I’m not talking small
money we’re talking big money you know
what i’ma destroy seven trillion there’s
a lot of money okay so half of our gross
domestic product if it goes in the
direction of these 21 million
you know bitcoins being used and for
millions lost I think I don’t know the
number that was lost I think it’s four
million of them that was lost some
number like that don’t you think a guy
like that and these guys who control
elections and control all these other
things don’t you think they’re gonna
make a phone call and you know they’re
gonna say hey listen mr. congressman mr.
senator you want to do this again you
gotta make sure you take care of this
thing you you cannot let this Bitcoin
stuff take off the way that this is out
of control already don’t you think if
they’re gonna make those calls to figure
out a way to do what they’ve always done
which is listen small business owner
wants to compete with the big business
owner how do you beat them very simple
big business owner goes to somebody and
helps them up financially in a political
side and says listen make the barriers
to enter more difficult how do you do it
more regulations more licensing more
laws more rules more this stuff and so
the new guy cannot come and compete with
this guy he has in a sense a monopoly
with two other companies if you want to
call her monopoly so that is my only
concern with a the argument you’re
making is but you’re assuming that
Congress might whatever laws they want
obviously they can outlaw Bitcoin they
can about go on you’re assuming that
there is a possibility of enforcing
those laws that’s utter nonsense
you cannot stop a distributed system
that is worldwide there is no law that
you can make if you had one person per
we
for citizen in the country 400 million
enforcers you still couldn’t do it well
because you unfortunately have to sleep
for some it’s important it’s not
possible okay
no admittedly the way the things were
six months ago when does when the
exchanges were centralized he could shut
down in exchange you can’t do that
anymore they’ve now decentralized
exchanges you can’t stop it you can’t
shut it down and you can’t know anything
about it so tell me sir how will you
enforce these magical laws that Congress
is gonna make Jamie Dimon has no power
in this world so let me ask you this
then a follow-up to that you remember
what happened with China
right when the China was going through
there and and Bitcoin dropped I think
from 10,000 to 6,000 I came back up
obviously to 10,000 but it dropped and I
think in in in a event or an interview
you said it dropped that was one of the
reasons because China new euro we know
whatever it is I was linked to that and
and on top of that they made it
difficult for users to use Bitcoin to
buy things okay so go to that choice so
what if somebody says let’s make it
difficult for these guys use their
Bitcoin
I don’t accept Bitcoin so then what
happens to Bitcoin but how are you gonna
make it difficult what are you gonna do
to make it difficult that’s why I don’t
accept it that’s fine
then you’re not gonna do business
because the guy who does and you’re not
connote is even accepting these
advertisers on the dark web it’d be nice
so what if chase comes and says no
problem I want merchant services
authorize that net they own it I do
business what authorize that net guess
what your rates when you accept money
from American Express from Visa
MasterCard is 1.25 you know how the
numbers they up but if you take Bitcoin
6.75%
but the banks doesn’t even know what’s
happening this is not through the banks
the banks not involved the bank has
nothing to do with this they don’t even
see it’s it’s an undercurrent because
once you get the exchange is distributed
nobody sees it
the banks have nothing to do with it
they write in fact go ahead and do what
you want to get credit card we’re not
using credit cards we got bitcoins what
are this and that let me explain to
where I’m coming from I own Bitcoin
myself so I’m not coming from a point of
view among that you know I’m just
playing devil’s advocate but here’s the
misconception the misconception is that
legislation can have teeth it’s not
possible this is a distributed war
old there is no legislation that can
touch it you can’t change it you can’t
fix it you can’t stop it you can’t
control it you can’t direct it you have
no power I don’t make the laws like
whatever you want it will make no
difference you are that’s certain about
it well I’m gonna technologist for God’s
sake we’re talking technology a lot of
technology people have been wrong in the
past before though
but you’re that’s not the technology
this is technology I’m telling you
something just like I can tell you
antivirus software does not work because
it cannot stop the hackers in the world
I’d say I said that earlier why because
it technologically can’t nothing can
know
same thing with Bitcoin you can’t stop
Bitcoin this is a fact technologically
impossible cannot be done sir is your
number on the million dollars based on a
math and I know you’re a math guy I
think you got a major in mathematics
right yeah I think you got a major
mathematics and as somebody who’s a math
guy and your brain is wired everything
is math did you come up with a million
dollar based on a formula or did you
come up with a million dollars of
assumption of what you think is gonna
say I came out of two ways I looked at
the number of users the user growth and
I chose the mean because it has to be
more than a million I can guarantee it
I came in it that way it came out with
maybe between three and seven million I
came at it through the mining way okay
which I believe is a lot more valid the
last Bitcoin to be mined
okay there’s 10,000 – Thank You Jimmy
the difficulty for that last Bitcoin is
going to be almost infinite it’s going
to cost four to five billion dollars to
mine that last coin and mine isn’t gonna
do it the value that coin has got to be
more than the work put into mine the
so if it cost let’s say even 1
billion dollars alright so one billion
dollars the last one well I should work
backwards from there and find out what
the end of 2020 is gonna be so two ways
come up with the same number between
that’s five million that’s probably the
thing one mean it’s way outside the
lower range so I’m very safe it’s it’s
fascinating watching your level of
conviction that you have is a fraud I’m
a little conviction I look at reality is
objectively not with what I wish it
would be but what it actually is
and it is not just Bitcoin I’m talking
about the entire because there are two
thousand other coins Bitcoin it’s not
not it
you know Bitcoin it’s less than a third
of the total a market cap for
alternative currencies so no you cannot
stop them you cannot change them you
cannot control them accept them and try
to fix your life to get in line with
reality okay so let me ask you this last
question on the topic of Bitcoin what
would your what would your if you were
to be the devil’s advocate of that same
exact argument what is the best argument
that you’ve gotten that’s made you
question the Bitcoin side or have you
had any has anybody said anything to me
or not yet or what what what if
governments don’t like it and stop it
okay
please you haven’t thought that through
people hell no one has ever shown me a
way to stop it they show me ways to
create laws well the good Lord make all
the laws you want we do that all the
time in the 1930s you made it a law that
you could not drink alcohol we consumed
more alcohol per capita during that
periods and in any period in American
history today what are we doing it’s
illegal federally and in most states
just Moke weed you find me a random
person it doesn’t smoke weed sir well
you don’t perhaps but maybe you do
somebody had a good time with you guys
earlier by the way really really cool
team you got here well thank you so much
for taking the time I mean I’ve enjoyed
your perspective on different views that
you have and and it’s interesting from
the place that you come and what you’ve
experienced and if you have actually if
you haven’t studied his past and what
he’s been a part of you got a pretty
interesting story is it true that
they’re thinking about making a movie
about you but Johnny Depp or playing
your part is that actually is that they
got played The Hollywood Reporter
reported it everyone said that’s
actually taking place with Johnny Depp
playing you yeah it was interesting I
was with the Donnie Brasco you remember
Donnie Brasco Joe Pistone we were with
him
couple months ago and Johnny Depp also
played him and I Johnny Depp is playing
you Johnny Depp likes playing these
strange
Hunter Thompson and yeah and your name
but if you’re gonna have anybody play
maze well be the guy that’s the best at
playing those parts I was agreement to
do it you’re more of a Morgan Freeman
guy I wanted Morgan Freeman I said I
wanted you and a Morgan Freeman to play
you yeah that would have been very how
was gonna play that he’s a good actor
you could play anything say he’s looking
at the skin color you know how do you
know I’m not black for there’s some skin
disease right do you play poker or no
are you a big poker player now I’m not a
big poker player but I’ll be happy to
play with you I’m sure I would be very
happy to donate my money based on how
you’re wired I get a feeling I do thank
you so much for your time really Jordan truly thank you
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