I’m Molly bloom do you know about me I’m
getting that you don’t think much of me
but what if every single one of your
ill-informed
so it’s January 1st okay we’re back
we’re relaxing we go to watch a movie
that night January 1st 2018 we watch
this movie called Molly’s game okay and
I leave I am so fascinated by this story
that I said I gotta find out who this
girl is so I go on Twitter I find your I
tweet her at 10:44 p.m. I get a message
two days that it would go back and forth
and here we are sitting down with Molly
in Colorado thank you for taking the
time so Molly you are known as the poker
princess that’s best I’m making they
didn’t write you ran this business they
call it a hundred million dollars
business you ran you had all these
people that would come into the biggest
poker game in America quarter million
down or buying how did this whole thing
get started I mean well how did you go
from who you read were you playing poker
at six years old eight years old with
daddy’s tell us that part of the story
it was really sort of an accident my
life plan was to go to the Olympics I
skied for the US Ski Team I was a very
serious student and I had just taken the
LSAT and done incredibly well I was in
the process of flying to law schools
when kind of a fluke accident happened
on my Olympic qualifier run
I literally tripped on a stick of pine
bough insert itself into my binding and
my ski pre-released I was really injured
and that was the end of my ski career
and it sort of it sort of made me
question everything that I was doing and
so I wanted to take a little bit of time
to really think that through to think if
this life plan was what I want to do so
I went to LA I got a bunch of jobs I was
a cocktail waitress I was
you know personal assistant and my boss
at the time said you know I’m gonna need
you to serve drinks to my poker game
and I remember googling like what kind
of music – poker players like to listen
to and like trying to understand them as
a species because I had zero exposure
not you never never put a hand of Poker
the only time I had seen anyone playing
poker was on the movies in the movies
we’ve all seen and I’m just like what
you know what am i walking into and so
when I showed up at the game really
quickly I realized this was not what I
thought it was I walked in the room and
some of the most famous wealthy and
powerful men are seated around the stage
that night that night so your first
night you go there you’re seeing
everybody there yes in that moment I was
a light bulb moment this is an
incredible way to go the network this is
not an opportunity that you know a 22
year old girl from Loveland Colorado
generally gets and then also they’re
speaking freely and I’m like this is
access to people this is access to
information and then at the end of the
night I made $3,000 which at that time
was a you know ecstatic right now so I
learned the game I learned as much as I
could about the game I studied the guys
for you know six months to kind of
understand what the draw was here how I
could turn this into a business for my
study what do you mean my stuff I
watched you study the way they were
playing are you doing research about
them with both so I’m learning about the
terminology so that I don’t seem like an
amateur god you know and I’m learning
how to talk shop with them and then I’m
sort of observing them I realized a
couple things first of all these guys
didn’t they didn’t want things anymore
right they could buy all the things that
they want they wanted experiences and
and this gambling it really took them
outside of themselves escapism so it was
this experience this transformational
experience this this you know escapism
and so when I ultimately took over the
game the first thing I did was I built
on that you know I built on like these
guys wanna feel like James Bond training
they want to be different when they walk
out of this so you made them feel like
James Bond for tonight
I tried yeah that’s so now some of the
names the names are on everybody in the
next round so you know one of the
players Ruderman ends up having a Ponzi
scheme from trying to get investments
from other people and he came out and
told that oh I think Tobey Maguire’s on
that list Leonardo DiCaprio’s on that
list Ben Affleck’s on that list I think
a rods on Ellis Alex Rodriguez and
there’s a few other guys that came out
on that list so now you have all these
personalities you’re 25 the one part
that I watch I really want to get into
the relationship with your father that
whole thing with Jeremy Jordan all that
means I’m dead such an incredible story
of your first question I asked you when
I came inside was about your dad but
yeah so do you think you are dealing
with all these big personalities Tobey
Maguire which is known as being a you
know there’s a lot of words in the
dictionary that are not an addiction
everything you that they use for telling
you got the camp Rio you got a half flag
you got a Ben Affleck you got Alex
riding these are strong personality
people you’re 25 how did you know how
how did you know how to lead and handle
people like this because I’m sure
they’re trying to bully you as well to
try to control everything how did that
relationship take place a large part of
it I think was instinctual through these
games through these experiences I
realized what I was actually good at and
I hadn’t really known that up until this
point I you know I guess my
I have a higher EQ then probably you
know like IQ like I am a really well
honed EQ and I also came at it from a
place of trying to understand humans
instead of just running a game and be
procedural about it and sort of you know
just trying to run it like in this very
procedural way I tried to really
understand people and what I saw so
often is when all these negative
manifestations of personality emerges
that what spirit yeah under watching
this yeah what’s behind it is fear
you know it’s fear and it’s fear because
they just lost a lot of money fear
because they have a rivalry with someone
and so I realized that if I could try to
reduce that fear and then I could try to
make them feel safe or try to you know
that that was generally the best way to
deal with people particularly like when
they would lose a lot of money you know
instead of going at them and being like
I need you to write that check right now
which is what a lot of people do just
giving people the space you know just be
like you know call me what you want and
you’ll just come back and win as much
what are some of the craziest things you
saw happen with this you know
personality-wise was it just regular
personality was it conversations weird a
fairly open with one another somebody’s
throwing a comment that been about JLo
or what what was that part yeah I mean
to tell you the truth I was really
focused on trying to preemptively squash
any drama before it had
you know and so like I was really
focused on that but I have to give it to
these guys for the amount of money that
was being gambled and you know sort of
the personalities they were really civil
with each other
there was never physical altercation
there was a lot of sort of getting angry
and stomping out you know but in terms
of of people fighting with each other or
physical altercations or whatever like
you really kept it pretty simple
interesting yeah it was was Toby’s
Toby’s personality the way that it’s you
know presented in the movie was it
fairly as accurate as it as it is in the
movie well would really want me to say
that the character player X it’s a
composite character and he’s a character
that Aaron wrote based on lots of
different stories that you know I told
him there’s a character in the book
that’s Laila where it’s Toby yeah and he
was difficult he was very difficult he
wanted to control and manage the
situation he wanted to make sure he had
edge in different ways you know he
wanted to be the only player at the
table that locked it down and that was
tight and he wanted everyone else to be
giving action and gambling and he you
know he put a couple players in and he
was doing all this stuff that in order
to gain edge and I shut it down and he
didn’t like that he didn’t like you know
now let me ask you how old was he at the
time because he’s got to be similarly
used to you similar age to me yeah I
think he’s like 2 years older than I am
so it’s not like he’s a 40 year old guy
try new you know and was he already the
gut was he already a he was already okay
his sort Fame and career and you know
he’s really smart like I had to give it
to him he’s extremely he’s extremely
bright and he also knew how to live
that Fame in that in that position to
gain power so do you think a part of why
you had a very easy time let’s just say
not easy time but a more than easy time
than an average person would in an
environment like this because you had a
father that was very tough you think
that helped out a lot I think having a
father that was really tough and from a
very young age taught me to overcome
fear risk early on yeah so what would
how would he shake your mind to not have
any fear if I was afraid of something he
would force me to do it
you know like mobile skiing I remember
he put me in the water to learn how to
get up on one ski and I was in color
till I got up you know it was a lot of
like teaching me how to suffer
constructively in the face of trying to
accomplish something it was a lot of
like standing on top of a cliff on my
skis being this big and seem like you’re
gonna conquer your fear and now you’re
gonna jump off that cliff you know
you’re kidding me no wow so so with you
like that with all of you with you
Jeremy oh yeah no we don’t my brothers
and I learned we had to from from an
early age conquer our fears and it was
never in unsafe context and really
listen like my dad’s got me some crap
because of the character that is
portrayed by Costner but I’m glad that
my dad did that and he was harder on me
because you’re saying that now yeah have
you told him that
oh yeah but you know he also said to me
look I’m a psychologist I know what the
world looks like and I particularly know
that it’s harder for for women and I
wanted you to be tough I wanted you to
be formidable he said that yeah but he
didn’t tell me that growing up so I just
thought he didn’t like me as much as my
brothers Wow so that because you know
you know the most emotional part of the
movie is the part where you know it’s at
the end of the movie you’re sitting it
with your dad and you know you’re going
back and forth you’re talking and he
asks you he says go ahead and Molly
asked me the question you mean
to ask me you know I know the movie was
that one scene but tell me how was in
real life when that happened yeah well
um it was it was in California we hadn’t
spoken for a year when I got arrested by
the FBI
my dad got mad about it but I was just
like what I mean I’m scared I mean my
dad what he was mad and it’s
understandable he warned me he told me I
was being reckless
you owe me five page letters you know
and and when I got federally indicted he
pissed and so he said get a public
defender cuz he was mad and I didn’t
have any money because feds had already
seized assets and so I’d sweep them for
a year then he he wrote me a letter and
he said I’m coming to California because
whether you want to speak to me or not
I’m your father you’re getting sentenced
in federal court and I want to talk to
you
he’s reaching out to you’re not
responding right so how I responded
after that so he comes so he comes you
know I I always wanted my dad to be
proud of me and I always felt like I
thought short of my brother’s and and I
don’t really think I never gotten real
with him you know I just I wanted to be
tough and I wanted to be what I thought
he wanted me to be and then you know in
my early 20s with this game I just broke
from all of that I just the held against
all of that and I was like you know what
he wanted me to make money on making
money you know and um so we sat down and
I think for the first time in my life
would got real and I I said to him why
didn’t you like me
the fact that I was brought in more
brats
tomorrow I believe that I I didn’t you
know I I was a teenager and I was you
know I was over rebelling against the
norms situation always having an answer
or not like he said will be an attorney
yeah he was like you like to read an
argument you mean attorney um so you
know then we had that real come to Jesus
and he was emotional you know that the
first time yeah yeah I mean the first
time it was the first time I got real
with him and I asked him foreign
language why didn’t he like me and you
know he got so emotional
I had wanted you to be a pain in the
world
I know how hard the world is and I
wanted you to be formidable and so from
that moment moving forward it was I mean
he’s my best friend five times a day
drastic yeah too big that’s right that’s
right and you couldn’t have said that
prior to that no that’s amazing
now let me ask you what role did Jeremy
and Jordan played ugly soso why don’t
you you know for some people that don’t
know what do your brother’s do so Jeremy
was a six-time world champion and I
might get some of the stats wrong but
two-time Olympian he went straight from
the Turin Olympics where he was ranked
number one in the world to the NFL
Combine got drafted fifth round to the
Eagles played in the NFL that’s why you
posted when the Eagles won you posted
Eagles and some people’s what does this
have to do with it I was trying to
figure that out yeah he said I remember
this phone call or something he always
was when Jeremy got a call from Andy
Reid yes yeah and and then you know he
left the world of sports and started a
charity and tech I mean he’s just he’s
in he’s extraordinary and then Jordan is
a harvard-educated cardiothoracic
surgeon and you know he was like winning
meeting my dad at chess at like five and
I’m just sitting there going why he was
you know there are both prodigies true
like I didn’t know what I wanted to do
you know and I didn’t have this these
skills that presented and but I had the
competitiveness and I had that just
needing approval like I needed air and
so it was a really kind of bad
combination and and my brothers our
extraordinary human beings are great
brothers but what they did is they
raised this bar so high that when I went
into the world and I and I stumbled into
this opportunity I was like this is this
is my chance to be significant and maybe
it’s not as flashy or shiny or whatever
as my brothers but like this is it this
may be my only chance that’s what I
thought you know I mean I honestly think
22 is the oldest I didn’t know how like
the day know what you were doing or not
but you didn’t know while you were doing
it yeah I have an idea yeah for sure and
I gave them a pg-13 by the way your mom
and dad did they only have three kids
yes say mom and dad you know who big
brown is big brown was a horse that
raced in a Kentucky Derby okay so they
went and they were selling you stud fees
for $400,000 per okay somebody should go
to your mom and dad and say listen I
will pay a hundred grand let’s freeze
this damn thing and put it away let’s
see what we can come up with cuz three
kids to do that at that level yeah you
know your brothers winning in chess at
five years old your that’s insanity you
think that so if you feel if your mom
and dad see this Hey props you know
props we were cheering you on for that
but so go back to what you were doing
East Coast West Coast East Coast it
sounds like you got it into the Russian
community and it was good so what was
the biggest difference you’re doing West
a smaller game it was a fit now it was
still a huge of still monsters $50,000
buy-in
let me came and people were winning and
losing high six figures and million
dollar super shirt east coast 215 it’s
like they’re just so used to the
fluctuation was it always casual is
Amina listen I don’t have cash I throw
my leg out well I’ll throw my condo and
here was a minute no I was gonna say his
son no it was um it was bank wires in
check okay so here’s my question for you
before we talk about the FBI felony all
that other stuff rice well I mean it was
legal for to do that yeah okay so
something was legal to because I wasn’t
taking a break I was just operating on
tips that’s the biggest challenge when
that happened is when things changed
right when there’s a train ticket and I
had retained criminal attorneys from
both coasts that were former federal
prosecutors and I was paying my taxes
and I was walking for a long time that
gray line and then I remember the exact
moment where I made that choice to step
up do you really like I can tell you
what it smelled like in the room I guess
I mean what you did it did you say shit
I should have done this or did you do it
saying let’s roll the dice I had that I
just like that that scary feeling and
then it was just like what a girl handle
it oh yeah my stomach you know I was
just I was I wanted I wanted more I
wanted to scale it more I went to games
to be bigger I wanted the games to be
you know
to move it to Europe I wanted more more
and more a night vision expansion I just
wanted expansion but it wasn’t the world
you know it wasn’t sustainable it’s just
me I didn’t have any financial partner
right um so I’m extending this crazy
credit every week I’m running seven
games a week so you didn’t think there
was any limits you’re like I want to
push a little bit more and a little more
so let’s go back to what you were
talking about the moment you know you
cross the line so you did that but then
what happened after that so things
started to fall apart really how quick
this quickly so I would say from the
time I took a rake to the time that I
was completely shut down as probably six
months so six months it’s still less
than six months
um yeah so around the same time that I
started taking a rake I had let these
Russian guys start to play and there’s a
lot of people that this is New York this
is New York that said didn’t you know
they are Russian mob no the answer is
absolutely not I mean they showed up
they were well-dressed they have a
serious story that I offended out in
terms of what their business was they
were well-spoken educated they can mesh
well with the players they just gave a
ton of action turns out they are running
this 100 million dollar insurance fraud
scheme the biggest in New York City
history and the feds are onto them feds
are wiretapping them right so and
simultaneous you know this beds are
wiretapping them so simultaneously you
got the Ponzi scheme happening that gets
revealed so now they’re the feds here
and here’s what’s close and you know
through these wiretaps and through this
through the discovery they’re like oh my
god here’s this girl she’s got these
directions plane she’s got Wall Street
guys playing and you know how much the
Southern District loves of Wall Street
didn’t know and then the West Coast guys
the celebrity factor and it’s all
connected through this program like it’s
obvious it’s dangerous but like in my
heart
I don’t think I was ready to walk away
which is a crazy moment all of a sudden
now you’re putting this money in this
greed and this power over life and
liberty right because I’m breaking the
law and now my life’s in jeopardy and
I’m still choosing to go down this path
I look at the newspaper about ten days
later 125 guys really arrested the
biggest mob-related takedown in New York
City history
125 they had to land or like rent out a
gymnasium for process like a month or
two later to get a call from one of my
dealers at one of my smaller games um
you know don’t come here the FBI’s here
so I roll all my stuff in a suitcase I
on the phone with my travel agent and
I’m like I need to book a flight and um
she’s like your credit cards need to
cards give you one I looked at my
balances and they were all they all read
so all of my accounts are shut down it
was Easter so that was game over you
know so I went and moved home with my
mom in a bank account I started writing
this book I tried it bad bad all the
games are shut up that’s 42 years later
I kind of started to really make headway
and putting my life back together I
moved back to LA I’ve gotten a job I
almost finished my book and I was
starting to pitch to Hollywood and ten
days after moving back to LA 17 FBI
agents machine guns high beam
flashlights arrest me this is while you
pitching your story
yeah story yeah okay so this happens
then you’ve been indicted what happened
next
I was turning to a Russian mob mariko
indictment guy at the top of the
indictment was this guy known as Nakuru
go yes was this guy known as a board and
a foreign Russian organized crime is the
scariest like most dangerous human being
and he’s in Moscow and I’m like I don’t
know the four said 90 I said I was
looking at 90 years on the press release
I mean it was not only 90 years nine
years
the press release and I flew to New York
and I interviewed ten attorneys that day
and that next day and every one of them
said you don’t know anything like we can
my last meeting of the day I met Jim
Walden and he was a Gibson Dunn he was a
former federal prosecutor and I told him
my story and he’s like you need
representation and I would have never
indicted this case and like I need to
make sure that you’re okay so I walked
into that court room the next day with
these Russian mobsters and some gamblers
and that’s crazy
what was the biggest thing afterwards
once everything was finalized what was
the biggest thing that changed with the
afterwards truth is that fundamentally
nothing really changed inside and so
knowing that and knowing that that was
the case and also being decimated and
publicly decimated you know was
liberating to some degree I’d faced I
was you know I face my biggest fear I
was completely I failed on a huge level
and I’m still alive you know I’m still
breathing so I started building myself
my self-worth and sort of from the
inside you know and a lot of that was
like showing up for my family again and
like being a service or making my life
about something
myself now my drives is I still I’m
still ambitious and I still haven’t
drive but like my picture of success and
my motivation for success
looks very different that’s interesting
that’s great to hear
and then last but not least you watch
the movie what’s your reaction when you
watch the movie it is your story I mean
obviously she did a phenomenal job
representing you well I came I came at
this from a place up okay I’m gonna you
know I know that this is a long shot but
I think the best shot for coming out of
this massive mess that I’ve created both
financial and reputation and you know
now coming trying to navigate life as a
felon was to tell my story and to tell
it in the biggest way possible so I was
coming to this movie with such an
overwhelming sense of gratitude
it wasn’t like someone decided to write
a movie about my life and like I was
gonna have to watch it you know I knew
that the Sorkin and Jessica and idris
elba and the producers had taken you
know had were invested and that it
wasn’t just a movie it was a second
chance so I was already in a book and a
lot of gratitude and then when I saw the
movie I was just like just blown away
you know
I can tell you that’s exactly how I feel
and that’s why we reached out to you so
for me it’s hands-down the best one we
have seen unless last year I mean I
don’t think anything comes close to it I
was so blown away by this story and not
to sit with you and hear it from you
thank you so much for taking the time to visit us thank you yes definitely
getting that you don’t think much of me
but what if every single one of your
ill-informed
so it’s January 1st okay we’re back
we’re relaxing we go to watch a movie
that night January 1st 2018 we watch
this movie called Molly’s game okay and
I leave I am so fascinated by this story
that I said I gotta find out who this
girl is so I go on Twitter I find your I
tweet her at 10:44 p.m. I get a message
two days that it would go back and forth
and here we are sitting down with Molly
in Colorado thank you for taking the
time so Molly you are known as the poker
princess that’s best I’m making they
didn’t write you ran this business they
call it a hundred million dollars
business you ran you had all these
people that would come into the biggest
poker game in America quarter million
down or buying how did this whole thing
get started I mean well how did you go
from who you read were you playing poker
at six years old eight years old with
daddy’s tell us that part of the story
it was really sort of an accident my
life plan was to go to the Olympics I
skied for the US Ski Team I was a very
serious student and I had just taken the
LSAT and done incredibly well I was in
the process of flying to law schools
when kind of a fluke accident happened
on my Olympic qualifier run
I literally tripped on a stick of pine
bough insert itself into my binding and
my ski pre-released I was really injured
and that was the end of my ski career
and it sort of it sort of made me
question everything that I was doing and
so I wanted to take a little bit of time
to really think that through to think if
this life plan was what I want to do so
I went to LA I got a bunch of jobs I was
a cocktail waitress I was
you know personal assistant and my boss
at the time said you know I’m gonna need
you to serve drinks to my poker game
and I remember googling like what kind
of music – poker players like to listen
to and like trying to understand them as
a species because I had zero exposure
not you never never put a hand of Poker
the only time I had seen anyone playing
poker was on the movies in the movies
we’ve all seen and I’m just like what
you know what am i walking into and so
when I showed up at the game really
quickly I realized this was not what I
thought it was I walked in the room and
some of the most famous wealthy and
powerful men are seated around the stage
that night that night so your first
night you go there you’re seeing
everybody there yes in that moment I was
a light bulb moment this is an
incredible way to go the network this is
not an opportunity that you know a 22
year old girl from Loveland Colorado
generally gets and then also they’re
speaking freely and I’m like this is
access to people this is access to
information and then at the end of the
night I made $3,000 which at that time
was a you know ecstatic right now so I
learned the game I learned as much as I
could about the game I studied the guys
for you know six months to kind of
understand what the draw was here how I
could turn this into a business for my
study what do you mean my stuff I
watched you study the way they were
playing are you doing research about
them with both so I’m learning about the
terminology so that I don’t seem like an
amateur god you know and I’m learning
how to talk shop with them and then I’m
sort of observing them I realized a
couple things first of all these guys
didn’t they didn’t want things anymore
right they could buy all the things that
they want they wanted experiences and
and this gambling it really took them
outside of themselves escapism so it was
this experience this transformational
experience this this you know escapism
and so when I ultimately took over the
game the first thing I did was I built
on that you know I built on like these
guys wanna feel like James Bond training
they want to be different when they walk
out of this so you made them feel like
James Bond for tonight
I tried yeah that’s so now some of the
names the names are on everybody in the
next round so you know one of the
players Ruderman ends up having a Ponzi
scheme from trying to get investments
from other people and he came out and
told that oh I think Tobey Maguire’s on
that list Leonardo DiCaprio’s on that
list Ben Affleck’s on that list I think
a rods on Ellis Alex Rodriguez and
there’s a few other guys that came out
on that list so now you have all these
personalities you’re 25 the one part
that I watch I really want to get into
the relationship with your father that
whole thing with Jeremy Jordan all that
means I’m dead such an incredible story
of your first question I asked you when
I came inside was about your dad but
yeah so do you think you are dealing
with all these big personalities Tobey
Maguire which is known as being a you
know there’s a lot of words in the
dictionary that are not an addiction
everything you that they use for telling
you got the camp Rio you got a half flag
you got a Ben Affleck you got Alex
riding these are strong personality
people you’re 25 how did you know how
how did you know how to lead and handle
people like this because I’m sure
they’re trying to bully you as well to
try to control everything how did that
relationship take place a large part of
it I think was instinctual through these
games through these experiences I
realized what I was actually good at and
I hadn’t really known that up until this
point I you know I guess my
I have a higher EQ then probably you
know like IQ like I am a really well
honed EQ and I also came at it from a
place of trying to understand humans
instead of just running a game and be
procedural about it and sort of you know
just trying to run it like in this very
procedural way I tried to really
understand people and what I saw so
often is when all these negative
manifestations of personality emerges
that what spirit yeah under watching
this yeah what’s behind it is fear
you know it’s fear and it’s fear because
they just lost a lot of money fear
because they have a rivalry with someone
and so I realized that if I could try to
reduce that fear and then I could try to
make them feel safe or try to you know
that that was generally the best way to
deal with people particularly like when
they would lose a lot of money you know
instead of going at them and being like
I need you to write that check right now
which is what a lot of people do just
giving people the space you know just be
like you know call me what you want and
you’ll just come back and win as much
what are some of the craziest things you
saw happen with this you know
personality-wise was it just regular
personality was it conversations weird a
fairly open with one another somebody’s
throwing a comment that been about JLo
or what what was that part yeah I mean
to tell you the truth I was really
focused on trying to preemptively squash
any drama before it had
you know and so like I was really
focused on that but I have to give it to
these guys for the amount of money that
was being gambled and you know sort of
the personalities they were really civil
with each other
there was never physical altercation
there was a lot of sort of getting angry
and stomping out you know but in terms
of of people fighting with each other or
physical altercations or whatever like
you really kept it pretty simple
interesting yeah it was was Toby’s
Toby’s personality the way that it’s you
know presented in the movie was it
fairly as accurate as it as it is in the
movie well would really want me to say
that the character player X it’s a
composite character and he’s a character
that Aaron wrote based on lots of
different stories that you know I told
him there’s a character in the book
that’s Laila where it’s Toby yeah and he
was difficult he was very difficult he
wanted to control and manage the
situation he wanted to make sure he had
edge in different ways you know he
wanted to be the only player at the
table that locked it down and that was
tight and he wanted everyone else to be
giving action and gambling and he you
know he put a couple players in and he
was doing all this stuff that in order
to gain edge and I shut it down and he
didn’t like that he didn’t like you know
now let me ask you how old was he at the
time because he’s got to be similarly
used to you similar age to me yeah I
think he’s like 2 years older than I am
so it’s not like he’s a 40 year old guy
try new you know and was he already the
gut was he already a he was already okay
his sort Fame and career and you know
he’s really smart like I had to give it
to him he’s extremely he’s extremely
bright and he also knew how to live
that Fame in that in that position to
gain power so do you think a part of why
you had a very easy time let’s just say
not easy time but a more than easy time
than an average person would in an
environment like this because you had a
father that was very tough you think
that helped out a lot I think having a
father that was really tough and from a
very young age taught me to overcome
fear risk early on yeah so what would
how would he shake your mind to not have
any fear if I was afraid of something he
would force me to do it
you know like mobile skiing I remember
he put me in the water to learn how to
get up on one ski and I was in color
till I got up you know it was a lot of
like teaching me how to suffer
constructively in the face of trying to
accomplish something it was a lot of
like standing on top of a cliff on my
skis being this big and seem like you’re
gonna conquer your fear and now you’re
gonna jump off that cliff you know
you’re kidding me no wow so so with you
like that with all of you with you
Jeremy oh yeah no we don’t my brothers
and I learned we had to from from an
early age conquer our fears and it was
never in unsafe context and really
listen like my dad’s got me some crap
because of the character that is
portrayed by Costner but I’m glad that
my dad did that and he was harder on me
because you’re saying that now yeah have
you told him that
oh yeah but you know he also said to me
look I’m a psychologist I know what the
world looks like and I particularly know
that it’s harder for for women and I
wanted you to be tough I wanted you to
be formidable he said that yeah but he
didn’t tell me that growing up so I just
thought he didn’t like me as much as my
brothers Wow so that because you know
you know the most emotional part of the
movie is the part where you know it’s at
the end of the movie you’re sitting it
with your dad and you know you’re going
back and forth you’re talking and he
asks you he says go ahead and Molly
asked me the question you mean
to ask me you know I know the movie was
that one scene but tell me how was in
real life when that happened yeah well
um it was it was in California we hadn’t
spoken for a year when I got arrested by
the FBI
my dad got mad about it but I was just
like what I mean I’m scared I mean my
dad what he was mad and it’s
understandable he warned me he told me I
was being reckless
you owe me five page letters you know
and and when I got federally indicted he
pissed and so he said get a public
defender cuz he was mad and I didn’t
have any money because feds had already
seized assets and so I’d sweep them for
a year then he he wrote me a letter and
he said I’m coming to California because
whether you want to speak to me or not
I’m your father you’re getting sentenced
in federal court and I want to talk to
you
he’s reaching out to you’re not
responding right so how I responded
after that so he comes so he comes you
know I I always wanted my dad to be
proud of me and I always felt like I
thought short of my brother’s and and I
don’t really think I never gotten real
with him you know I just I wanted to be
tough and I wanted to be what I thought
he wanted me to be and then you know in
my early 20s with this game I just broke
from all of that I just the held against
all of that and I was like you know what
he wanted me to make money on making
money you know and um so we sat down and
I think for the first time in my life
would got real and I I said to him why
didn’t you like me
the fact that I was brought in more
brats
tomorrow I believe that I I didn’t you
know I I was a teenager and I was you
know I was over rebelling against the
norms situation always having an answer
or not like he said will be an attorney
yeah he was like you like to read an
argument you mean attorney um so you
know then we had that real come to Jesus
and he was emotional you know that the
first time yeah yeah I mean the first
time it was the first time I got real
with him and I asked him foreign
language why didn’t he like me and you
know he got so emotional
I had wanted you to be a pain in the
world
I know how hard the world is and I
wanted you to be formidable and so from
that moment moving forward it was I mean
he’s my best friend five times a day
drastic yeah too big that’s right that’s
right and you couldn’t have said that
prior to that no that’s amazing
now let me ask you what role did Jeremy
and Jordan played ugly soso why don’t
you you know for some people that don’t
know what do your brother’s do so Jeremy
was a six-time world champion and I
might get some of the stats wrong but
two-time Olympian he went straight from
the Turin Olympics where he was ranked
number one in the world to the NFL
Combine got drafted fifth round to the
Eagles played in the NFL that’s why you
posted when the Eagles won you posted
Eagles and some people’s what does this
have to do with it I was trying to
figure that out yeah he said I remember
this phone call or something he always
was when Jeremy got a call from Andy
Reid yes yeah and and then you know he
left the world of sports and started a
charity and tech I mean he’s just he’s
in he’s extraordinary and then Jordan is
a harvard-educated cardiothoracic
surgeon and you know he was like winning
meeting my dad at chess at like five and
I’m just sitting there going why he was
you know there are both prodigies true
like I didn’t know what I wanted to do
you know and I didn’t have this these
skills that presented and but I had the
competitiveness and I had that just
needing approval like I needed air and
so it was a really kind of bad
combination and and my brothers our
extraordinary human beings are great
brothers but what they did is they
raised this bar so high that when I went
into the world and I and I stumbled into
this opportunity I was like this is this
is my chance to be significant and maybe
it’s not as flashy or shiny or whatever
as my brothers but like this is it this
may be my only chance that’s what I
thought you know I mean I honestly think
22 is the oldest I didn’t know how like
the day know what you were doing or not
but you didn’t know while you were doing
it yeah I have an idea yeah for sure and
I gave them a pg-13 by the way your mom
and dad did they only have three kids
yes say mom and dad you know who big
brown is big brown was a horse that
raced in a Kentucky Derby okay so they
went and they were selling you stud fees
for $400,000 per okay somebody should go
to your mom and dad and say listen I
will pay a hundred grand let’s freeze
this damn thing and put it away let’s
see what we can come up with cuz three
kids to do that at that level yeah you
know your brothers winning in chess at
five years old your that’s insanity you
think that so if you feel if your mom
and dad see this Hey props you know
props we were cheering you on for that
but so go back to what you were doing
East Coast West Coast East Coast it
sounds like you got it into the Russian
community and it was good so what was
the biggest difference you’re doing West
a smaller game it was a fit now it was
still a huge of still monsters $50,000
buy-in
let me came and people were winning and
losing high six figures and million
dollar super shirt east coast 215 it’s
like they’re just so used to the
fluctuation was it always casual is
Amina listen I don’t have cash I throw
my leg out well I’ll throw my condo and
here was a minute no I was gonna say his
son no it was um it was bank wires in
check okay so here’s my question for you
before we talk about the FBI felony all
that other stuff rice well I mean it was
legal for to do that yeah okay so
something was legal to because I wasn’t
taking a break I was just operating on
tips that’s the biggest challenge when
that happened is when things changed
right when there’s a train ticket and I
had retained criminal attorneys from
both coasts that were former federal
prosecutors and I was paying my taxes
and I was walking for a long time that
gray line and then I remember the exact
moment where I made that choice to step
up do you really like I can tell you
what it smelled like in the room I guess
I mean what you did it did you say shit
I should have done this or did you do it
saying let’s roll the dice I had that I
just like that that scary feeling and
then it was just like what a girl handle
it oh yeah my stomach you know I was
just I was I wanted I wanted more I
wanted to scale it more I went to games
to be bigger I wanted the games to be
you know
to move it to Europe I wanted more more
and more a night vision expansion I just
wanted expansion but it wasn’t the world
you know it wasn’t sustainable it’s just
me I didn’t have any financial partner
right um so I’m extending this crazy
credit every week I’m running seven
games a week so you didn’t think there
was any limits you’re like I want to
push a little bit more and a little more
so let’s go back to what you were
talking about the moment you know you
cross the line so you did that but then
what happened after that so things
started to fall apart really how quick
this quickly so I would say from the
time I took a rake to the time that I
was completely shut down as probably six
months so six months it’s still less
than six months
um yeah so around the same time that I
started taking a rake I had let these
Russian guys start to play and there’s a
lot of people that this is New York this
is New York that said didn’t you know
they are Russian mob no the answer is
absolutely not I mean they showed up
they were well-dressed they have a
serious story that I offended out in
terms of what their business was they
were well-spoken educated they can mesh
well with the players they just gave a
ton of action turns out they are running
this 100 million dollar insurance fraud
scheme the biggest in New York City
history and the feds are onto them feds
are wiretapping them right so and
simultaneous you know this beds are
wiretapping them so simultaneously you
got the Ponzi scheme happening that gets
revealed so now they’re the feds here
and here’s what’s close and you know
through these wiretaps and through this
through the discovery they’re like oh my
god here’s this girl she’s got these
directions plane she’s got Wall Street
guys playing and you know how much the
Southern District loves of Wall Street
didn’t know and then the West Coast guys
the celebrity factor and it’s all
connected through this program like it’s
obvious it’s dangerous but like in my
heart
I don’t think I was ready to walk away
which is a crazy moment all of a sudden
now you’re putting this money in this
greed and this power over life and
liberty right because I’m breaking the
law and now my life’s in jeopardy and
I’m still choosing to go down this path
I look at the newspaper about ten days
later 125 guys really arrested the
biggest mob-related takedown in New York
City history
125 they had to land or like rent out a
gymnasium for process like a month or
two later to get a call from one of my
dealers at one of my smaller games um
you know don’t come here the FBI’s here
so I roll all my stuff in a suitcase I
on the phone with my travel agent and
I’m like I need to book a flight and um
she’s like your credit cards need to
cards give you one I looked at my
balances and they were all they all read
so all of my accounts are shut down it
was Easter so that was game over you
know so I went and moved home with my
mom in a bank account I started writing
this book I tried it bad bad all the
games are shut up that’s 42 years later
I kind of started to really make headway
and putting my life back together I
moved back to LA I’ve gotten a job I
almost finished my book and I was
starting to pitch to Hollywood and ten
days after moving back to LA 17 FBI
agents machine guns high beam
flashlights arrest me this is while you
pitching your story
yeah story yeah okay so this happens
then you’ve been indicted what happened
next
I was turning to a Russian mob mariko
indictment guy at the top of the
indictment was this guy known as Nakuru
go yes was this guy known as a board and
a foreign Russian organized crime is the
scariest like most dangerous human being
and he’s in Moscow and I’m like I don’t
know the four said 90 I said I was
looking at 90 years on the press release
I mean it was not only 90 years nine
years
the press release and I flew to New York
and I interviewed ten attorneys that day
and that next day and every one of them
said you don’t know anything like we can
my last meeting of the day I met Jim
Walden and he was a Gibson Dunn he was a
former federal prosecutor and I told him
my story and he’s like you need
representation and I would have never
indicted this case and like I need to
make sure that you’re okay so I walked
into that court room the next day with
these Russian mobsters and some gamblers
and that’s crazy
what was the biggest thing afterwards
once everything was finalized what was
the biggest thing that changed with the
afterwards truth is that fundamentally
nothing really changed inside and so
knowing that and knowing that that was
the case and also being decimated and
publicly decimated you know was
liberating to some degree I’d faced I
was you know I face my biggest fear I
was completely I failed on a huge level
and I’m still alive you know I’m still
breathing so I started building myself
my self-worth and sort of from the
inside you know and a lot of that was
like showing up for my family again and
like being a service or making my life
about something
myself now my drives is I still I’m
still ambitious and I still haven’t
drive but like my picture of success and
my motivation for success
looks very different that’s interesting
that’s great to hear
and then last but not least you watch
the movie what’s your reaction when you
watch the movie it is your story I mean
obviously she did a phenomenal job
representing you well I came I came at
this from a place up okay I’m gonna you
know I know that this is a long shot but
I think the best shot for coming out of
this massive mess that I’ve created both
financial and reputation and you know
now coming trying to navigate life as a
felon was to tell my story and to tell
it in the biggest way possible so I was
coming to this movie with such an
overwhelming sense of gratitude
it wasn’t like someone decided to write
a movie about my life and like I was
gonna have to watch it you know I knew
that the Sorkin and Jessica and idris
elba and the producers had taken you
know had were invested and that it
wasn’t just a movie it was a second
chance so I was already in a book and a
lot of gratitude and then when I saw the
movie I was just like just blown away
you know
I can tell you that’s exactly how I feel
and that’s why we reached out to you so
for me it’s hands-down the best one we
have seen unless last year I mean I
don’t think anything comes close to it I
was so blown away by this story and not
to sit with you and hear it from you
thank you so much for taking the time to visit us thank you yes definitely
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