when you watch media right now who do
you trust
I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one to ask
it one way or the other there’s very few
people who bring the meat potatoes I
think a journalist is somebody that the
more division there is the more money
they make let’s just face the truth and
who holds them accountable do we hold
people accountable for exercising their
freedom of speech we have a relationship
you’re the expert I’m not the expert I
don’t have time to go run a research and
do everything your facts can all be
right but the story is still wrong the
truth is somewhere in the middle right
people are addicted to their outrage
they want to be angry every day I think
would freak the average person out to
have their emotions removed from their
political beliefs
that’s like tearing someone’s throat
weird you know whatever you have the
emotion not you the journalist I don’t
want you to have the emotion I want the
journalist to tell me the truth
[Music]
so today I’m sitting with somebody that
may be an anomaly and let me explain to
you why you see when you join the u.s.
army that one MOS that people that don’t
get good scores on their ass Webbys you
go become an 11 Bravo so I study on up
on this scanner so he sent eleven
probably not the smartest guy in the
world you know because I was a 63 Bravo
I wasn’t a smartest guy in the world and
then he goes in the army goes becomes a
ranger Special Forces serves for 10
years goes to Iraq Syria Afghanistan all
over got some crazy stories ten years
later decides to get out goes to
Columbia School Ivy League you know post
military and becomes a journalist and
then he writes a book that we’re gonna
talk about today called the Murphy’s
that with that being said Jack Murphy
good to have you on my team thanks for
having me yes so listen I know I’m a big
fan of the movie wedding crashers and I
don’t know if you see wedding crashers
or uh no absolutely awesome movies an
army right so wedding crashers and the
stories about Vince Vaughn and Owen
Wilson crashing weddings yeah and that’s
pretty epic on what they’ve done but in
the movie they never crash the
terrorists wedding you know what do you
do when you crash the terrorists winning
I read about you crashing a terrorist
win yeah what is that all about you kind
of say let’s go find the ladies at this
terrorists wedding or what is that would
have been one way to go I think she was
about 16 so it wasn’t probably us but it
was also an arranged marriage this is
different part of the world and you know
the difficulty in finding terrorists of
course is they’re trying to stay below
the surface and underground they’re
trying to do everything they can to stop
us from finding them this was 2009 in
Iraq so they had gotten used to being
hunted down by Special Forces teams but
we had intelligence information that
told us where and when he was getting
married his name was Abu Ghani he was a
terrorist facilitator doing IEDs strikes
all sorts of really nasty stuff and we
found out he was getting married in
Missoula so we came driving in and
Humvees crept right up to the compound
where he was getting married busted in
the front door raided it with our Iraqi
SWAT team counterparts there was a how
many people or this would it I’d say
something about maybe 25 people or so
the
malory the goat was sitting there in the
courtyard panting the entire team that’s
so many ten when I lived in Iran that
was very normal yeah yeah I’m very not
very common yeah the the bride they had
already been married the bride was in
the other room with the women the men
were out front they were getting ready
to start drinking it actually which is
another custom after they get married
but Abu Ghani had not consummated the
marriage yet as we came to discover so
we kind of got there in the nick of time
we detained him we also detained his
father who I didn’t know this until we
got him back to the base he was very
nonchalant like didn’t care at all
his wedding is his son’s wedding just
got raided by Special Forces and he
seems like he had not a care in the
world it’s weird when we got backed into
what way though and what not caring like
I’m used to so nothing like like
laughing joking like he didn’t take it
seriously
I don’t know fear no fear at all no none
at all and I don’t speak Arabic very
well at all so I couldn’t communicate
with him on that level but just for the
through the mannerisms and it was very
clear that firstly he thought it was a
joke when we got back to the compound in
the law firm you took both of them we
took both of them one of the Iraqi SWAT
team members was talking to me we’re
smoking cigarettes in the bunker and he
said yeah the old man he he killed my
cousin and I was like what what and he
said yeah yeah he killed my cousin he
killed a lot of people and tell afar
back in the day and I was like what are
you talking about me and he’s like yeah
the old man he’s even worse than the son
he was putting faith was on people
having police officers assassinated Wow
and we went back there and found it yeah
he wasn’t he was like a serial killer
and you didn’t know that no I know at
the time I had no idea interesting so
you went it for the Sun realizing the
the father was more vicious than to some
was the son was more active at the time
and terrorist networks but the the the
father was probably just as prolific
under the new Iraqi laws and the
American agreement with him how his
Status of Forces Agreement we had to
release both of them to Iraqi custody
pretty much immediately the father
disappeared I never saw him again
he because he’s now released into the
custody of the police force that he had
been terrorizing all those years never
saw that guy again meaning when you say
never saw him again what are you saying
are you saying it was are you saying
he’s free it was
intimated to me that he was disappeared
into the desert the son was handcuffed
to the cell and we would come back
months later and he would still be
wearing that same wedding suit
handcuffed standing get us out here no
months later yeah so so the entire said
he hated this these guys yes and there’s
a it was out of our hands was out of
America it’s not to excuse myself or
push the culpability elsewhere but under
the Status of Forces Agreement we could
object but we had no power to very
interesting well I mean that’s a
different kind of a wedding to crash but
you know more power to you so so let me
ask you let’s go back so sure you know
some people joined the army because the
family’s all army like I’m talking to
general McChrystal his dad’s a to stun
his uncle’s this everybody’s this
everybody’s the minister so you know
from the moment I was a kid I kind of
know was gonna join the army right so
I’m joined the army because of GI Bill
you know how I’m gonna go get my job
some joined the army for benefits I’m
joined the army because it’s a safe
place and then some join the army
because of an event took place that
inspired them to want to join the army
a movie and event a crisis what was the
reason why et cetera sir you know I
think I was one of those weird ones I
was one of those anomalies I came from
Westchester County New York my
graduating class I believe I was the
only person who joined the military
really it’s not a common thing around
here it’s not something that people do
but for me although I didn’t have any
family members who are in the military
it was something I always wanted to do
since I was a little kid I knew this is
who I wanted to do you know why do you
remember a movie do you remember like
any leg did you watch and will be over
and over again yeah well I was a big fan
of all kinds of predator I mean all
those classic films aliens the Space
Marines is so cool but there’s one thing
that got me interested in Special
Operations I think I was probably like
eight years old you remember the movie
Patriot Games with Harrison Ford whores
there’s that scene in the movie where
the British SAS comes out through the
desert and they raid this terrorist camp
in Libya and you know the guy back at
CIA headquarters is watching it on the
satellite feed you slip in his coffee
that’s a kill and my mind as a little
kid ah struggling to understand like
what this isn’t war like the world war
two movies yeah see what is this I’m
looking at
my mom I was watching it with and she’s
like secret mission I was like secret
mission you can do that and she was like
yeah of course and that was I think I
was like eight maybe eight or nine well
you remember this vividly different
visual oh yeah yeah and that was the
moment where I was like I want to be one
of those guys did your mom have any
problem when he joined the army was
there any mom son situation she was she
had trepidations about it of course I’m
you know her only son I can’t blame her
for that but she was very supportive my
family is always very supportive of me
so who are you in high school if I was
in high school with you who were you I’d
be the weird kid that put together
computers listen to electronic music
this antisocial weird kid yeah from that
to the army yeah for sure and you knew
you were gonna go in at some point
mm-hmm okay so now you go in the army
what at what point did you go 11 Bravo
range your Special Forces when did that
happen immediately because I signed it
what’s called an option 40 contract so
that puts you into the pipeline that go
to infantry basic training Airborne
School and then the Ranger
indoctrination program so it gives you a
shot at going to a range of the death so
pre MEPs when you sign your orders you
knew you were gonna go through that it
was well you did mention that you know a
catalyzing event um for me I had I knew
I wanted to be in the military I knew I
wanted to go to war yeah but before 9/11
that wasn’t happening we had a very
peacetime military so I was thinking
about joining the French Foreign Legion
and I was planning on that and then 9/11
happened and everything changed I was
like well US military’s going to war
it’s happening now so went in and yeah
did I juice you up when that happens
you’re like that I that pissed you what
was the emotion that you saw it made me
angry because the brutality of it and
the the number of civilian casualties
that’s an indicative of al Qaeda I mean
it’s a death cult they that’s what they
want and it’s almost killing just for
the sake of killing well you know how
you hear these stories like you know
football players film you know I you
know I saw it I couldn’t stand it I was
so I wanted to do something to serve my
country and I wanted to go get the enemy
was that where the fire came like I
cannot believe they just did this to my
soul you are not gonna do this to my
homeland was it that emotion at the risk
of maybe
ascribing more hindsight than foresight
even as a teenager I could see the
terrorism was escalating in the United
States we see these events the USS Cole
from Khobar towers to the first World
Trade Center bombing you see these
escalating events and it seems like our
government was not really taking it
seriously we weren’t aggressively
pursuing these guys these networks oh
yes these
so 9/11 that the fact that there was an
escalating a larger attack was not
necessarily a surprise you know I want I
want to come back to this because I want
I want to know one what could we have
done to prevent a 9/11 and number two
are we set up in a position to where
another 9/11 could happen today or are
we in a safer place where it can’t
happen today matter-of-factly if you
don’t mind just touching up on that
because I talked to Carrick I’ve talked
to a few people that were involved in
the whole 9/11 thing Bernard Kerik was
the Commissioner at that time when he
was involved with this but when you say
America wasn’t fully prepared or looking
for protecting against the tax like that
what could we have really done
differently at that time there’s been a
lot of information coming out of the
9/11 Commission report even recently
declassified documents about the Saudi
involvement and the Saudis were watching
these guys we were watching these guys
the CIA had some awareness of what they
that they were part of a cell and that
they were planning something that there
was these transfers of money through
Malaysia and elsewhere I think there
were many different opportunities to
disrupt the network had we tried but
again this is hindsight is twenty-twenty
and then of course we could have been
more aggressive in pursuing al-qaida
abroad there were opportunities to kill
Osama bin Laden in Sudan and elsewhere
and I think the Clinton administration
was a little risk averse and pursuing
some of those lines meaning meaning that
they didn’t want the potential political
fallout the 1990s comes on the tail end
of iran-contra a lot of consternation
about covert operations about
assassinations during the Reagan years
so I think the the administration saw
the end of the Cold War happened and
they didn’t want to go back down that
road
you know you know one of the things that
I wonder is from the outside it’s almost
like you know if you make the decision
and say we take somebody out or we go
extremely aggressive to prevent like for
instance I remember back in 76 77 Carter
was campaigning around about the whole
human rights thing right human rights
human rights human rights and they kept
talking about that the Shah has 3,000
political prisoners in Iran this was a
whole and I know you’re dealing with
something with Iran that Iran has 3,000
political prisoners and this dictator is
not being right and he’s not doing the
right thing and he should let him out
and at the same time Carter was kind of
pushing Cuba with the whole Merial
boatlift you know you you you have all
these prisoners you should let them out
and you know finally your Cuba’s like I
fine I’ll let them out your summary or
both I’ll give you all my prisoners and
I’ll go to Miami Miami next year
unemployment you know 50 percent and
Iran eventually they force those 3,000
political prisoners to come out and that
you know creates Osama bin Laden all
these Isis all these other groups so how
do we as you know citizens who are not
in it how do we differentiate between
the right decision and the wrong
decision I mean we’re never really gonna
know right right the president make the
right decision or now and very rarely is
there a clear right and wrong any
operation like the 1980 evil claw
operation to rescue American hostages
being held in Iran had that mission been
a success we all would have clapped our
hands you know these are our heroes you
know the administration’s so great but
you know something I talk about in the
book I mean it’s a fine line between
hero and zero and Annamma saying the men
who tried to execute that operation or
zeros a far from it they’re actually my
heroes because they had you know as one
one author who wrote a book about he
said they had the guts to try one Delta
Force officer who’s retired he told me
the worst thing that can ever happen to
us isn’t mission failure as bad as that
is the worst thing that could ever
happen to us is that all those people
out there come to believe that we’re too
chicken even try that’s the worst thing
that can happen to us that our public
comes to believe that we’re too chicken
to defend
has that ever happened I mean while
again with the risk aversion and these
opportunities we had to you know
assassinate bin Laden who pulls that out
dude that’s not the milk is from my time
in the military like you guys are
itching for things you know what I’m
saying it’s like yes the military has to
be held back oh yeah yeah if you have to
be held like it’s like a pitbull wanted
to fight me you’re like listen relax
relax right it’s it’s coming from a
different standpoint so I don’t know if
America has that perspective of that
happening maybe sometimes it is too much
brutality that maybe we don’t see you
know when you hear about the whole
waterboarding well I think they’re just
not being fair to the whole P or w code
that we have that you shouldn’t be doing
that and you shouldn’t be doing this and
then you talk to guys that are in the
moment they’re like you don’t even know
what this guy did to that city you don’t
even know how brutal human being this is
like the stuff we tell you what this guy
did wouldn’t even make it in movies it’s
the tactical versus strategic view and
tactically there may be something that
be gained from those sorts of
interrogations but strategically and
morally on the world stage we may lose
power or soft power or prestige and
those are all things that have to be
taken into account how do you process
tattoo though how do i decipher between
the two are there are some things that
are better known to public than knowing
about I mean I’m a total mess I know
what you’re asking but I I’m an advocate
for transparency and I believe there has
to be government accountability there
has to be oversight I think it’s
incumbent on the American public to know
about these things I think that they I
don’t think they can just wash their
hands and pretend like they can’t send
the Jack Murphy’s of the world to go and
do their dirty work and think their
hands are clean that’s not okay it will
come back on us and it will impact our
country I mean you can see what’s
happening now all these veterans are
coming home and a lot of them are
struggling struggling with PTSD TBI
joblessness homelessness we can’t just
turn around and pretend that we’re not
responsible for these things what
happened today with taking
responsibility for the aftermath of war
that’s that’s what I’m getting to the
human damage the psychological and
physical damage there’s no question I
did a podcast with a group of four
Marines and they were talking about
Pat what do you think needs to happen
with this whole you know PTSD so many
people are experiencing I mean we got 30
million veterans right in America right
now and you don’t know how many tomorrow
going through the whole ETS a half the
part is not being able to adjust from
the military life yes civilian life
that’s very tough by the way most people
don’t realize like the difficulties with
that you’re accustomed to a system four
o’clock six o’clock formation chow
PT you know it’s like everything is
you’re being told what to do next and
you’re going to the civilian life so
we’ve you know we spend a lot of time
talking about PTSD on different podcasts
but the question I’m asking you is are
there some things that is better off
people not known about I guess let me
explain it this way parents they do
certain things they go through certain
things should kids know everything and
they protect their children yes should
kids know everything so should the
populace because I and I’m telling you
this being very transparent with you I
think a person who’s a president sits
there and says this is gonna create
havoc if we tell the media about it
they’re gonna go nuts
this gonna create havoc we’re better off
not disclosing this because if we do
it’s gonna lead to the enemy that we’re
trying to attack and no one about our
strategy our game rising public so how
do you decipher between the two well
there’s definitely a role for government
secrecy military secrecy all those
things are imperative I think for
carrying out successful operations but
as a veteran I don’t think it’s really
our role to come back home and sort of
shame our culture or try to make them
feel bad you know I deal with some
things that that I witnessed or was
involved in as does you know most of the
guys who are over there but do I want to
put that monkey on the back of you know
the people I wrote on the subway with to
get here today no of course not so I
think there is a role in protecting them
from that we don’t want those people to
have to live with the things that a lot
of our soldiers do it’s not necessarily
that we’re not willing to tell them the
truth it’s more that we’re not going to
just empty all of it onto them there are
moments where you’re in the
the battle right so there’s anxiety
levels or it Peaks okay you know your
first I’ll go into your first war and
your land in Iraq the first time maybe
there’s a little bit of a you know
anxiety jerk right or the first time you
do a jump okay and it’s a you know
whatever secret jump you’re doing late
night at two o’clock in the morning okay
you don’t know where you’re going you
have your night-vision goggles on it’s a
little bit of anxiety I don’t know if
they’re gonna see us if they see us am I
gonna die and I’m just gonna go down
like your imagination take a picture
takes all of you what was the moment for
you where you’re if there’s a Richter
scale like they do in football games of
how loud the audience is being when was
it when it just went off the charts and
you were fully so much heat in the
battery like I don’t know what the hell
is about to happen right now what was
that moment for you yeah there was there
was I mean when you say that there’s one
moment that jumps out at me it was my
first appointment to Afghanistan and it
was a situation where we were on a
reconnaissance patrol I was a sniper at
the time and we had been tasked with
tracking down the individual who who
planned the ambush that killed Pat
Tillman actually and we went out and I
was at what’s called a Mission Support
site it’s like a handful of guys who are
kind of stationary with a radio while a
six-man reconnaissance patrol is out
actually reconning the objective and
what the recon Patrol told us was that
there was a they had eyes on a 10-person
element like Taliban with heavy weapons
moving towards our location and what I
made the decision to do was to set in a
hasty near ambush on the road so that we
could ambush these guys before they got
to the MSS so we went down the road a
little bit I had one other American with
me and about ten Afghan paramilitary
soldiers who had been trained by the CIA
put them all down in the prone position
behind trees trying to get them down
behind cover even though they all wanted
to squat and fire from the hip trying to
get everybody down trying to get
everyone positioned trying to do the
Ranger school thing as difficult as that
is in real life and then I got down in
the prone
a tree and I remember sitting there
looking looking over the scope of my
sniper rifle down at the road it’s
probably like 15 meters in front of me
if that like man look like we’re really
gonna be on top of these guys and
they’re about to come down the road any
moment and that was a moment for me
where like fear just abject fear was
like a physical fear I don’t think was
even my mind was like my body telling me
you’re about to die and it just washed
over me it was a kind of a pivotal
moment for me I think in the sense that
I made a decision right then I knew I
was about to die and I said well I’m
gonna take as many of them with me as
possible and then I was calm like
whatever that was I just I had pushed
through it and I feel like something
changed inside me that day how long was
that process like as you’re going
through it you know what I’m saying
Michael not less than a minute
let’s stick yeah from high anxiety to
being calm yeah like you accept that in
fact I could die right now
screw it I’m gonna have to do my best
yeah and do what you know you were
trained to do and unfortunately this
story doesn’t have a happy ending but
amazingly it could have been much worse
it was a friendly fire incident because
what happened was that the ricotta
salata walked into the hasty ambush that
I had set up the result was a fairly
substantial firefight bullets shooing
into the tree that I was taking cover
behind dirt being kicked up in my face
the afghans started jumping up and down
talking on the radio there’s something
clearly wrong but we didn’t understand
what and eventually it came across no
shoot no shoot stop stop stop but
because of the language barrier we could
not we did not have communications with
our recon patrol or our MSS the mission
support site and because the language
barrier is difficult to talk to the
Afghans so at this point the only thing
to do which I was remiss to do because
you never stand up in an ambush but
somebody had to sort this thing out so I
told the one other American with me like
look I’m gonna stand up I’m gonna go
down there I’m gonna figure out what’s
going on yeah and I didn’t feel like you
know I had any other choice at the time
so I stood up walk down to the road
literally like this you have to hold up
the weapon or what are you doing because
if you go like this I’m thinking gonna
shoot me I held my weapon in my hand
because I didn’t know who’s down there
okay and I walked down to the road and
as I got down there I came face-to-face
with my good friend Paul who was on the
recon patrol and when he looked at me
and I looked at him and we both said
what the fuck just happened
anybody got cute no oh one person was
shot one person was shot I shot them
yeah you shot the one person as a sniper
Wow so how does the military handle
situations like that when you go back
like a meeting Kay what is wrong with
you guys I’m sorry to laugh because of
the seriousness of the situation and one
soldier was hurt although I was a flesh
wound thank God but the the military
doesn’t necessarily know how to handle
something like that they launched an
investigation you know right off the bat
yeah you know with cause there’s good
reason to so they sent an investigator
down and interviewed us and then they
made a determination they didn’t
necessarily fault me for it they
acknowledged that I made sensible
tactical decisions there were some
things that could have been done
differently both tactically and
communications wise that could have
stopped that incident from taking place
but I carried out the rest of the
deployment doing my job good for them
yeah yeah they had every reason to make
me a human sacrifice and they did it
well and it just tells you a Congress
your peers at something the story it’s
it’s something I’m very grateful to the
Ranger Regiment for giving me a second
chance because they didn’t have to do
that and and the regiment isn’t known
for giving second chain really no so it
that they gave me the opportunity to
prove myself or redeem myself as
something I’m very grateful to that how
many times were you in a situation where
you actually had to go up against the
enemy and and take the kill shot how
many times were you in situations like
many times I don’t think I necessarily
killed anyone but many times in
firefights the next deployment was 2005
to Iraq where it was a very hot
deployment we were in Missoula we were
doing what was called TS TS or
time-sensitive targets so the Intel
audience was being developed so quickly
the churn was handling so quickly that
sometimes we would get to go into a room
and have a brief and say okay this is
where we’re going this is a basic plan
of action scheme of maneuver a lot of
times it happens so quickly they just
gave us a grid here you go and you get
on the vehicles and go there were times
where they told us to just get on the
vehicles and go and I didn’t get a grid
until we were on the way there until we
were already outside the gate and I know
that because I was words the second half
of the deployment I was the what’s
called the TC the tactical command or
tank commanders when it comes from on
Stryker vehicles he’s eight wheeled you
know they’re like 25 tonne vehicles I
would have the laptop open with the GPS
and the map on it Galt is a program
called Falcon View and the grid would
come over the radio and I’d have to plug
it into the computer like okay that’s
where we’re going and then we’d the
convoy to the target so things were
happening so quickly and we’re getting
in a firefight so often it was three
months of it’s supposed to be a marathon
but it felt like a three-month sprint we
were just exhausted other pat tillman
was the NFL right for us I said Spillman
I don’t know why sit still maybe there
was another linebacker with that name
but Pat Tillman so so you know how much
of it today because when I think about
I’m like okay when you think about war
today how much of it is air strike is
the same idea with bayonets and you know
you would have to go do the bayonet
exercise and boot camp and you know
marksmanship and you know you’re an
expert you this how much does you know
foot on the ground still have the same
effect versus today it’s just an air
strike okay get the grid you know make
the shot you know attack the enemy in
it’s game over how much of it has
changed what air strike versus ground
yeah I mean I think even since the
Vietnam War things have changed
substantially because of the technology
precision guided munitions are ISR with
drones and satellite coverage and
everything else has improved things
significantly but with that said we find
ourselves fighting in urban built-up
areas we end up finding ourselves
fighting counterinsurgencies like I was
talking about before tsts or high value
target strikes
where you’re trying to capture the
leadership of these terrorist networks
or even things where you’re doing
something that involves hostage rescue
not that I was involved in that
specifically or if you’re trying to do
counter-proliferation and secure weapons
of mass destruction these are all things
that robots cannot do for us yeah so
there’s still a necessity to put boots
on the ground there’s things that only
human beings can do and going into you
know raiding a high-rise hotel and
pulling a terrorist out of a certain
room if something that you know robotics
and satellites and artificial
intelligence can’t do and probably
aren’t going to be able to do for at
least a few more decades at least a few
more decades okay but eventually you’re
thinking the whole thing is going to go
into a you know technology in the next
video I think so you can see Special
Operations Command right now is
developing what’s called the Talos suit
which is an exoskeleton runs off of at
least the last I knew it ran off a
combination of gasoline electric engine
it was designed to mitigate the fact
that we have operators we have soldiers
entering and clearing rooms and guys are
getting shot going through the doorway
guys are getting blown up when they go
into rooms by IEDs or suicide vests okay
so they had this idea will develop this
exoskeleton and it’ll help protect our
soldiers but if you think about the
exoskeleton itself is really just a
stepping stone to having autonomous
androids that do the room clearing for
us I mean that is the next logical step
after the exoskeleton I don’t think
we’re far off from it I don’t think it’s
something that we’re far off from it I
you know it’s so crazy you watch movies
and you say oh my gosh that’s crazy
it’ll never happen and you’re just 20 30
years later it’s becoming a reality it’s
in our lifetime yeah I agree I think so
I like that
so you know I talked to my buddies who
were in the military you know and I
asked him those who went to war and
actually experienced stuff and they were
part of stuff right whether it’s Osama
bin Laden or Saddam Hussein or any of
this stuff and I asked him I say so what
you saw when you were a part of it
versus what the media talked about how
do you feel about it and I’ve had
certain answers I’ve heard but I want to
hear from you how what is the level of
accuracy of what the media says versus
what actually happened well the media I
said that you’re part of the media right
yeah I work I work as a journalist but I
won’t parse my words on it I mean I
think the the American media overall
they’re fairly accurate with their facts
and this is the thing that you have to
explain to people a lot of times is that
your facts can all be right but the
story is still wrong because it’s
contextualized in a certain way
interesting and the the press a lot of
times misses that context sometimes it’s
because of a bias sometimes it’s just
because they’re in the moment they’re
they have to report that one story get
it in make their deadline move on to the
next story and they don’t have time for
that really like in-depth reporting so
you end up with something that’s sort of
a historical it doesn’t really give you
the context of what’s happening but as
far as you know my experience versus
what I see in the media that was
something I tried to capture a lot in
the book because I think there’s just
such a difference between what we
experienced in the moment in combat
versus how we come to feel about it in
the decades afterwards and and we know
we know more information in the decades
afterwards than we did at that time when
you’re you know you’re that guy on the
ambush line you know you have very
limited information but you know as you
come to learn more and more about what
was going on both tactical your
geopolitically you come to know a lot
more and sometimes as veterans what we
do is we use that information we’ve
acquired after the fact to color our
experiences and and that leads to maybe
an inaccurate perception of what was
happening at the time so when you watch
media right now who do you trust
I mean like for us there’s no explain to
what I mean so I don’t position it as
I’m trying to pigeonhole you to st. CNN
fox or MSNBC I’m that’s not what I’m
asking
let me preface what I’m asking sure so
back in the days you know you would hear
about in Iran we had a TV guy who was my
father-in-law my sister’s husband’s
father who passed off i-70 money he
would tell the news and it was just
telling the news here’s what happened
right
Cronkite would tell the news and here’s
what happened today it’s I’m telling my
news on what’s going on right because
I’m emotionally attached
to one side or I’m emotionally attached
to my own political beliefs and no one’s
that dumb everybody knows Fox leans to
the right
CNN leans to left the MSNBC’s maybe
further left and CNN is a New York Times
being here it’s pretty pretty much all
that Business Insider is probably gonna
be independent you know you can go
through all these things on where
they’re gonna be at time it’s gonna be
on the left New York Post is gonna be on
the right Washington Post is gonna be on
the Left all these things you look at
who is the fairest today that is
actually telling the news that when you
look at saying this person is being
being fair here who would you say it is
you know I don’t really put any stock in
any particular news outlet especially
you know the bigger ones are staffed by
many different editors many different
points of view many different you know
potential agendas so I wouldn’t put all
my eggs in one basket one way or the
other I think in the in the realm I work
in in the defense or special operations
news there’s very few people who bring
the meat and potatoes I think there are
a few out there that I’ve read that I
think are pretty good I think Shawn
Navarre is a pretty good journalist I
think Kevin Mauer is another guy who’s
done some really good work and I think
they do their best to tell the truth you
know of course what the truth is depends
on where we sit you know I might have a
different perspective than somebody else
but I think those are a few who do their
best yeah so you went to Columbia
University and your major was a
political science I believe yes the poly
SIA and why what happened what’s the
what’s the reason post-military to go
into journalism because you know for me
again what I’m curious to know is that
something happened for you to say I
think I can do it better I think the
truth needs to be told I think the
integrity of journalism is gone
what if spire do you want to go that
route I wish I could say that my reasons
were so noble but I really was something
that I kind of stumbled my way into I
came out of the military like a lot of
things like a lot of other veterans not
really necessarily knowing what I was
going to do with myself
my girlfriend was pregnant we were gonna
have a baby very excited about that but
now I have to completely refigure out
what I’m gonna do with myself so I
started college started at Mercy and
Dobbs Ferry which is just up the line
here
it’s good school did my first year there
but I figured I’d take advantage of my
GI Bill and do the best I possibly can
so I applied to Columbia and NYU and I
ended up going to Columbia went there
got my degree initially I was getting my
degree in history but I got kind of
frustrated with the history department
about in the in the book a bit and
changed my major to political science
which was good it was a good call I
enjoyed that
then I had written a novel I had this
idea that you know you have these
thriller writers out there and some of
them are very good but most of them
didn’t serve in the military at all and
you know Here I did all these things and
Rangers and Special Forces well and I
take a stab at it so I wrote a book the
novel and then that got me kind of found
by other people who asked me to start
writing like weapons reviews and gear
reviews you know basic stuff like that
that’s what kind of got me into online
media and then at a certain point I was
working with this former Navy SEAL who
proposed let’s go off on her own start
our own website own news and information
website I agreed and that was kind of
the genesis of it and as it evolved I
realized you know it’s like look we need
to do if we’re going to be credible we
need to do real news we need to start
going abroad not just writing about our
recollections telling war stories from
the good old days we have to start going
overseas when you start shaking hands
meeting people interviewing people and
doing some real reporting so it was a
progression that happened somewhat
accidentally every industry has a
certain set of guidelines that they’re
held accountable whether it’s a
fiduciary responsibility or whatever
they have what responsibilities and
guidelines do journalists have and who
holds them accountable like you know
financial we’re in an insurer side
you’re gonna be the you know state the
Department of Insurance holds you
accountable okay lawyers State Bar you
know is gonna hold you accountable
securities on securities you know SEC
FINRA holds you accountable who holds
journalists accountable yeah well that’s
a great question and the the question
also involves do we hold people
accountable for
exercising their freedom of speech and
that’s something that we can apply
across society at large yeah but but the
difference is I’m not a journalist let’s
just say right should this should the
CRB of course I mean for me first of all
if if you on your Twitter account if it
says journalists I have to hold you at a
higher standard cuz I’m here and paid
for it right somebody that’s not getting
paid for you know sharing their thoughts
that’s a different story but you are a
professional journalist who holds you
accountable you know in an ideal world I
think editors way to hold their
employees accountable publishers would
hold their editors and employees
accountable but at the end of the day I
think it’s the public that has to hold
journalism accountable and the public
right now is at a time in place where
they are addicted to the outrage and
they’re probably not at all well placed
to hold journalists accountable so yeah
we’re in a challenging time right now
for journalists and not to speak bad
about you know some of my peers I
suppose but journalists can be
incredibly self-indulgent self-involved
and self-righteous and in some ways
these journalistic interest institutions
come to resemble the power structures
that they claim to speak truth to they
engage in a lot of the same type of
behavior so I think we’re in a period
right now where of readjustment and you
know I don’t even know if our generation
is really going to figure that out that
might be our kids that are able to
grapple with the internet and social
media and finding some sort of sanity in
there you know what I’d like to see
here’s what I like to see how what am I
seeing this think about more you think
about if journalists you have a you know
how FICO score a body’s got a FICO score
you go Experian TransUnion Equifax okay
you got a 620 score I’m the bank I’m not
gonna give you a good rate but I’ll give
you six point one percent you got up a
25% down instead of 10% whatever you
know your credit score is a 20 no
problem what do you need finance in
here’s a million dollars you got your
house you’re good to go because your
credit score is good based on your last
ten years or seven years you’ve paid
everything on time you’re solid you paid
off one house another house you paid off
four car
you’re good we trust you I mean I would
love like you know how you have Yelp
holes businesses accountable you know
you got some of these places that whole
matter of fact it’s a business
opportunity if we if there was a website
like pew researchers middle like pew
doesn’t come out and lean right or left
right when CNSs post came out
president Trump State of Union speech
was horrible because you know and it Fox
comes out and Trump State of Union
speech historically is gonna be known as
the greatest state of Union speech of
all time okay the truth is somewhere in
the middle right okay Pew Research is
there I would be so curious to know
about a scoring system that scores the
validity of journalists and who’s
telling the truth and who is so
emotionally caught up on what they’re
telling so you can simply pull it up and
say oh now I realize who the guys that
scored the highest because these guys
tell the truth they don’t have their
opinion to it and this other guys
emotional I’m not gonna listen to this
guy anymore
yeah that’s an opportunity for business
just so you know but now you’re asking
to you know objectify truth that’s a do
you never meet or not necessarily not
necessarily I like for instance if you
put that barometer on Alex Jones okay if
it’s gonna be based on fire like you
know I don’t know if your sports guy or
sports or not particularly you know big
debate Oh who’s the greatest Michael
Jornal a bronze giant so like a modern
you’re right in everybody you shoot on
Jordan against M against Kobe today’s
Jordan you can look at their stats but
there are elements that you can’t look
at stats for instance who’s a better
teammate right you know some may say
what people like playing with LeBron
more well what does that really mean you
know they like playing with LeBron
because he’s a better locker room guy
he’s nicer it’s cool his Chili’s a guy
who can go hang out with but people saw
the killer instinct of Mg how the hell
you measure killer instinct you can’t
measure you can’t say here take my blood
on a positive K I what’s ki I’m killer
instinct I score at the highest level so
for me on the under journalism side I
think there’s gonna be some that’s going
to be here’s how many lies have been
told this year 97 okay and then the
other side will be some special
sensationalize what sensationalize you
probably put Alex Jones in there you’d
probably put a bunch of different guys
and they’re from both sides so I think
there’s got to be a way to hold your
industry accountable because it’s
getting very annoying when I’m telling
you it’s getting very annoying it’s
getting very annoying because I don’t
even want to turn on fox or CNN I turn
off all the notifications on my phone I
don’t want to see it anymore so I all
I’m and and again I’m giving you a rant
a little bit because every time I talk
to anybody from any industry I speak
freely on what I think about your
industry and then you can do whatever
you want one of my good friends Phil
Heath who’s a seven-time mr. Olympia he
and I were going back and forth on text
last night and just back and forth back
and forth back and forth and he brought
up and he says you know because of our
conversation we had on what you thought
about the mr. Olympia I have made these
different adjustments and here’s what
it’s led to it’s led to this business to
that to that business but you know I sit
there myself here’s what I want I want
somebody to do a news the following way
this is my this is in a perfect world
this is utopia for me this is Nirvana
right this is like I’m living with
unicorns flying all over the place for
me it would be a journalist to say hey
here’s what we’re at Democrats look at
this as the following five things
Democrats are gonna say he did this he
did that he did this he did it he did
that okay that’s what they’re saying
okay and that’s what they’re bothered by
Republicans are gonna say that that that
that that that that here’s what they’re
comfortable with here’s what they’re not
happy with here’s what Democrats gonna
say now let me give you some of the
stuff that neither is paying attention
to pop pop pop pop pop this is what
they’re not paying attention to these
are the things that we have to really
pay attention to I think Republicans
make good points on these two Democrats
make good points on these two but these
three points you may want to go research
for yourself a little bit more I don’t
see a lot of I couldn’t agree with you
more I’d love to see that the problem
right now is that the market is speaking
and the market doesn’t want that the
market could go and just read wire
reports off Reuters an APO about that I
said Mike Rowe you don’t want to talk
about dirty jobs yeah he would write
stuff on Facebook 600 thousand shares
yeah it’s just kind of telling you do
simple middle I don’t put the guy as
Republican I don’t put the guy as I put
the guy’s the middle and the market says
we like it I wish he you know he would
do more stuff that would you think they
would open their wallets for it do I
think they would open up their wall
would they pay for that content no I
think they don’t open up their wallet
not because they don’t want that to be
told and I’m being very honest with you
I think they don’t want to open up that
wallet because they personally don’t
want that to be told and I’ll explain to
you why okay journalists I tell you what
a journalist is here’s here’s how to
look at a journalist a journalist is
somebody that the more division there is
the more money they make let’s just face
the truth the more divisional publisher
the journalist isn’t getting a paycheck
increase what’s the guy at the top the
guy that runs the business the owner of
CA you know Turner right you know Fox
Ruby and what Paul is then that trickles
down and A’s yeah I’m looking for
division I don’t one United I don’t want
the United States of America I make
money when it’s two divided States of
America I’m killing it with
advertisement when everybody is you know
trying that when I create this image
that everybody hates each other it’s not
even the truth like we get along today
better than ever but let’s create this
image that there’s really a bigger war
going on so yeah for me they would pay
for micro because there would be viewers
look at Joe Rogan here’s what your Rogen
did Joe Rogan said screw everybody screw
all of you I don’t want to be on TV and
that I don’t need my own show I’m gonna
go put my own podcast and he’s killing
all of these other guy I think you’re
right that what you’re seeing with that
is that the tide is starting to turn and
that the public is ready for the sort of
long-form discussions that maybe they
weren’t ready for just three years ago
now they’re ready to sit down and listen
to you know a Joe Rogan interview for
three and a half hours I don’t think
people would have been ready for that
even just a few years ago and I think
that is an indicator that the tide is
starting to change yeah so now the whole
thing is going to be if YouTube is going
to be not comfortable with some of the
stuff we talked about you know we we’ve
had a couple interviews we’ve done words
you know all of a sudden get an email
saying this one’s not going to be accept
Yzerman’s many of them
emails we get like that more you this is
not for advertise huh did I say why oh
you’re like I brought onboard Jim
Jenkins Jim Jenkins was one of four
people in the room that was part of the
autopsy for John F Kennedy assassinated
and he hailed a brain he held the brain
and he told us and when you see this guy
Jim Jenkins for 50 years he’s never
wanted to have limelight
ever he said don’t bother me he is you
know how you meet somebody like you know
how you meet a girl and you’re like oh
she is extremely flirtatious holy moly I
know exactly what she’s doing right you
meet a guy and you know he’s a player
it’s not hard to figure out when you see
a guy you know he’s a player like he’s a
woman or as I call he was a little bit
too comfortable with those three girls
you know he can get it done pretty
easily and you know you meet a guy
you’re like guys just a good guy you
know I guess a simple guy that that
girl’s a simple girl that was you know
when you meet Jim Jenkins you’ll say wow
just a regular guy he’s been married to
the same wife 60 years just sit in the
55 years just she said she’s sitting
right hi how are you good to meet you
very innocent and he tells a story and
we take him to the whole Dealey Plaza
we show him the whole thing and he says
no I think the shot was from here and we
got 600,000 views for speak boom they
shut it down and then it stopped then I
was getting 200 views every other day
what happened there certain story so now
going back to you saying as the public
wanted to see it the public absolutely
wants to see it but who wants to block
it from it being seen that’s the
question
YouTube’s one of the best platforms out
there I love you too I love what you to
allows us to do
I think it’s Wonder Beth to me I’m more
YouTube than on Google Facebook I am on
YouTube I love like for me consuming
content it’s great but the point I’m
trying to make to you is the fun when
you say are people wanting to pay for it
number one screw what people are willing
to pay for people are willing to pay for
prostitution I’m not gonna go start a
business or prostitution I’m gonna start
a business because I want to
legitimately make a difference in
people’s lives and tell the truth or
long term I’m gonna gain credibility
where someone’s gonna say dude when that
guy talks it’s the truth that guy’s got
a lot of credibility so I think there is
market for it I just think what we’re
missing is some brass for somebody with
some brass to come out of
say I’m gonna cream my own media company
and the way we’re gonna do it as a
following way
we’re telling this and if you go off
story and you sensationalize you’re out
of here go work for CNN or Fox you’re
not gonna work we’ve done that for the
last seven years and I’ll tell you
though it’s an it’s an on you yeah it’s
an uphill struggle you know people are
addicted to their outrage they want to
be angry every day and there’s there are
statistics that they’ve done on at the
New York Times and elsewhere there’s a
called contagion that looked at it
pretty in-depth contagious yes yeah it’s
a great book whether they talk about you
know what gets people to click we’ve
read that and many many down it was last
month we read it yeah yeah it’s good
good book but I do think you’re right
that the tide is starting to change but
that’s gonna be a process it’s gonna
take a while yeah so here’s what I
believe in we open up an office I run a
business I run a financial forum and we
open up an office we originally started
with California and it was in San
Fernando Valley Glendale Northridge we
were in that market so then I decided to
go up and up an office and go complete
opposite side which is Miami so we
opened up the office in Miami when I go
to my Miami office this is what they
start telling me they say Pat let me
tell you Miami’s different I said what
it because everybody showed up late to
the meeting my wait a minute what was
this all about
Oh Miami’s different what do you mean my
man is different you don’t understand
Miami I said no no it’s not I don’t
understand people up Miami what do you
mean you don’t miami is different well
my name is more chill and people kind of
show up when they want and all of a
sudden
bs I said let me put it to you this way
open the blinds I open up the blinds was
this office I said how many buildings
you see out there a bunch of them how
many count them pana and not enough to
count give me a number 500 perfect those
buildings were built by a group of
people that had to be held accountable
and state this support to build those
buildings up yes or else no one’s gonna
trust the limb in that building because
it’s gonna come back yes or no yes so
they have to show up on time we’re also
gonna get fired yes yes and there’s
deadlines right yes everything you’re
saying I don’t agree with I told these
guys I said there’s always a market for
somebody that’s willing to do it right
now do what other people are willing
yeah and and and I’m telling you right
now my opinion my opinion today my
opinion today there is a massive
opportunity I’m not in your world like
I’m not saying
I’m gonna do it I’m telling you so maybe
this does something for you to you know
go and say look what this guy meant
today is an insurance cover here’s what
he said I think there’s a massive
opportunity for someone to say hey
here’s what’s going on here’s our
scoring system this is what we do we
make a bad score
our guys publicly we get a lower score
if I think there is it it’s a place
where the sensationalized journalists
would hate to work at but it would be a
place where I would pay $99 a month
every month I would pay for you to send
me an email on a daily basis with
everything that took place structured in
a way where I hear both sides I would
pay $99 a month and I’m willing to bet
thousands of people would also be
willing to pay $99 a month to understand
both sides and hold everybody
accountable to say okay fair this is
good there is an emerging market for
that but I think that you may be
overestimating the size of it right now
I don’t think the average person is
ready for that
I think would freak the average person
out actually to have their emotions
removed from their political beliefs
I mean that’s like tearing someone’s
religion oh let me have the emotion not
you judge the journalist I don’t want
you to have the emotion as a journalist
and what the journalists who tell me the
truth
let me have the emotion your job isn’t
to tell the emotion side the journalist
is to tell me what took place I if we
have a relationship you’re the expert
I’m not the expert I don’t have time to
go run a research and do everything by
the way I’m not calling you up I’m
telling it’s it important I want these
videos I saw your business insider
here’s the guns this is the one people
don’t like I like this one because this
one works this way but the most common
weapon is ak-47 because even until today
a case is the best one because it’s
simple it’s easy it’s duplicated but the
gun I would always carries a
nine-millimeter because you can always
find an Amal no matter where you’re i
watch this stuff and it makes sense I’m
not saying anything by your approach I’m
talking about the industry you represent
oh I mean these are valid criticism jobs
and I think it’s gonna take a while for
us to evolve out of this pit we’re in
right now I just hope we can do it
quickly enough before we we devour
cannibalize one another
I can talk to a guy like you a forever
I’m always curious and have so much
respect and admiration for somebody
that’s willing to put their life on the
line for me to be able to go build a
business and you know live my dream life
I can’t do without a guy like you every
time I see somebody in a military
uniform and the airport I just said say
hey c’mere c’mere I’m gonna tell you
listen you’re amazing what you’re doing
thank you for which oh that’s cool you
have to do it because I don’t think they
get enough but you know for me I think
there’s a massive opportunity today for
that world and I’ll explain to you who
would be your audience when you build a
business you look at who’s your audience
you don’t look at well you know
such-and-such people don’t have my
product I started selling insurance and
I was a middle-eastern and the first
thing that early stars would say is Pat
no Middle Eastern by his life insurance
why one – religion thing – they don’t
like it 3 the husband things that you’re
hooking up with the wife or there’s a
lack of trust 5 you know they’re not
Americanized so to them it’s like
wildlife insurance why would I want to
leave my wife money when I die no it’s
all this stuff I heard and I’m being
honest with you yeah yeah if I heard so
I set them like man maybe this isn’t for
me maybe I shouldn’t be doing this and
and I said you know what Pat no who’s
the customer who is your customer it
doesn’t have to be the Middle Eastern
you are Middle Eastern Phil Jackson is
60
he doesn’t recruit 60 or basketball
players so for me if the target for you
was executives and people who are so
super busy that are trying to get the
information who have influence over
others so so they don’t have to distill
all the half I’m telling you I would pay
for it and I’m telling you there are
hundreds of thousands of people I think
that would pay for it who don’t have
time and I just want to trust it’s all I
want so if you create and literally I’m
what I’m visualizing this like the email
comes this side
here’s what Democrats will say here’s
what Republicans will say and you quote
for Democrats
you know Maddow Cooper more whatever you
put here’s what Republicans are saying
Hannity Riley you know whatever you put
their names here but here’s what we’re
seeing on some policy and I am telling
you right now if you started something
like that I would
would subscribe your first car if you
took that approach and you held the
integrity that you are responsible for
not me
journalists are dividing this country
and that is a very big opportunity for
journalists to come out and say this is
not what we do if we screw up we talk
about it this was this and we create a
scoring system nowadays you go higher to
predictive analytics guy from Stanford
you pay him some money you raise a
couple million dollars your military guy
you have credibility you go to a few
guys you’re in New York I’m sure you can
put up to two to five ten million
dollars to raise over here
you can raise some money you get two
three four predictive analytics guys you
create a scoring system for journalists
that they’re gonna be not good or not
right and you put a top on hunters
scoring system every week I’m gonna be
checking that that gamification would
make that website one the top websites
for news in a world that you’d be
looking at so I think it’s more or less
like all I’m hoping for is for someone
to be inspired with this all I’m hoping
for is for somebody to say freaking hey
this makes sense let me see what I can
do with this go for it I don’t even want
their credit for this idea I’m just
telling you what I want I got three kids
I got a wife I got a two boys and a
daughter I want I want me to be able to
say go watch this and read this no
emotions read it then you’ll see exactly
why they say this why they say this you
would be the most hated the most hated
new site out there by everybody but who
would trust you is those people who are
EF Hutton who have influenced in their
own community I’m purely given my
opinion I may be absolutely wrong on
what I’m saying but it was just my
thoughts
there are centrists out there more than
people think who would definitely read
that I think there’s it I think there’s
a market for it so anyways if you don’t
do it someone I hope so
IIIi think I think hopefully something
will take place with that so what’s next
for you what are you up to nowadays as a
journalist I know you I see your stuff
with Business Insider I see your stuff
that you do with them the articles
you’re writing matter of fact you’re
working something right now with Iran
and to create the revolution there right
yeah talk a little bit about that what’s
going on with the research you’ve been
doing on that well yeah I’ve been
working on this article about Iran
lately
looking at the various contingency
planning that we’ve done because it
looks like the Trump administration and
his National Security Advisor John
Bolton have an interest in going back
and revisiting this topic so I’ve been
going through the reports I’ve been
talking to some sources about it and
it’s very very interesting and in my
opinion it’s a bit of a fool’s errand I
don’t think it would end very well but
why do you say that there’d have to be a
massive air campaign it would put
shocking on 2003 to shame and then you
have all these underground WMD
facilities that Special Operations
soldiers would have to go in and secure
these are quite complicated operations
to penetrate and raid these underground
facilities then there would have to be
some sort of transition in government
and when I talk to people about it I ask
the question is there a shadow
government in Iran waiting to take
control and bring forth democracy and I
know and that’s the main hold up to the
plan that’s why Obama said no to it in
2013 when it was offered to him and it
sounds very much like the sort of
situation we ran into an Iraq where
there’s that initial moment of
jubilation and mission accomplished and
then everything starts to fall apart so
I think we have to be very careful on
that subject but we’re still I’m still
working on that article and flushing it
all out is to worry that – it’s not a
good idea to have a revolution or it is
good to have a revolution for the regime
to change in Iran well I mean on one
hand yeah of course we’d like to see
democracy spread we’d like to see
freedom you know but the the question
becomes you know just like during the
Cold War is every anti-communist action
we take a pro America action this was
the question I asked when I visited
Damascus and I interviewed President
Assad a few years ago I came to this
conclusion that okay trying to topple
the government of Syria might be
anti-authoritarianism but it’s not
necessarily pro America to crash this
government and have Isis essentially
take control of of this entire country
that’s bad for us and I think you have
to look at it the same way in Iran that
no regime change you know we can we can
picture in our minds I as a sort of
thought experiment that it would be a
good thing to topple this regime and try
to transition it to a democracy but
we’ve seen how this plays out for us and
just right next door in Iraq and so I
think we have to be very careful and
we’ve been very skeptical about what we
can realistically accomplish are you
looking at some candidates that could be
revolutionary new leaders that could do
that are you looking at some names i I
have not made a in depth look at
opposition parties there are some
opposition groups in Iran but I’m more
looking at it from the American
perspective right now yeah okay got it
so to be involved or not to be involved
or to benefit if we do get involved and
mix it up over there to take back to
what it used to be with democracy I
think we need to ask ourselves all those
questions okay 1953 is a big date you
got to look at with Mossad bill yeah
yeah that’s the whole thing with oil
what happened with UK Britain was
bullying them because they owned all the
rights to the oil in abadan and then
when he was gone because they didn’t
like him do CIA was involved American
CIA was involved was a pretty some say
dirty
some say necessary and then the same
thing happened with the Shah during the
Carter regime which you’re probably 78
79 yeah right after the toast Carter did
with the Reza Pahlavi in Iran I think on
December 31st of 1977 next day he left
revolution got started in your arms
pretty ugly there’s a audio I suggest
you a book to read it’s called all the
Shahs men I’ve heard of it I’ve heard
about very very good and I think it’s a
given perspective on history on what to
do but the one guy right now that’s
creating his Instagram following his
growing his Twitter following his
growing his videos on Facebook are
growing on YouTube it’s growing he’s
being interviewed all over the world BBC
is the Shahs son Reza Pahlavi who lives
in DC Wow I the the Queen Farrah she’s
still alive if you can get a sit-down
with the Reza Pahlavi representing
business insta who you doing this
article for about the company I work for
news got it I think if you if you’re
able to speak to him he’ll give you a
complete
perspective of a pro and a con I sat
down with his campaign team that flew
into LA from France to meet with us and
we went to met with him rather we had a
three-hour meeting in DC with them and
we weren’t very very deep it was never
publicized it’s not a public video but I
think he would give you incredible
insight yeah because that yeah because
there are American Iranians who are pro
revolution some that are not some of how
many people some are sharp people some
hate the Shah some love – ah and you
have to know both reasons why it’s a
very sensitive subject and once you do
write it please send it to me I want to
be one of the first to read it I’m very
curious about what’s going on there
with Iran so final thoughts tell us a
lot about the book I mean obviously
we’ve been talking a lot about it but
what else should I expect
April 23rd it’s coming out yeah you can
already go on Amazon and pre-order it so
you’ll be one of the first to get it but
tell us a little bit about them you know
I’m pretty proud of the book I’m biased
of course but I’m proud of it I’ve spent
a lot of time on it I think it tells the
whole story of a young man joining the
military being popped down in countries
like Iraq or Afghanistan where you know
you you as a young guy you don’t have
the cultural or language knowledge to
really understand the full context of
what’s going on but suddenly in a very
violent world to be honest the
romanticism of being a young soldier and
going on this adventure and and the
challenges of trying to become a ranger
or a green beret and I think a lot of
the books out there tend to fall into
one or two categories because the this
has been turned into a genre this war
memoirs onre it’s either guys bragging
about how many people they killed in the
Middle East and waving the flag and
telling people that America wouldn’t be
there if not for them or you have these
sorts of works of literature that are
like war apologies like oh I was just a
young man and the system used and abused
me and left me broke in and threw me out
on the streets this book is neither of
those things I think it’s it’s from my
perspective that you know I’m very
patriotic I’m very Pro military but at
the same time I think my experiences
abroad have left me also deeply
skeptical about American foreign policy
and what we can realistically accomplish
when we send young
and women to try to police and govern
foreign populations who you know they
just don’t want us there you know they
don’t want a foreign imposition it’s
like my squad leader when I was a ranger
and we were in Iraq dealing with the
insurgency in 2005 he was like you know
I get it
he’s like imagine if the Chinese
government came in in in sent troops to
America and they were patrolling our
streets and they said hey we’re just
here to help you out don’t worry about
it and then they kick in your neighbor’s
front door they accidentally killed one
of their kids and now you’re in it and
the next thing you know you’re setting
off IEDs you know on convoys out on i-87
so I mean you just have to look at it
from their perspective so of course
there was an insurgency you know from
you know I love that story that Robert
McNamara told about when he went to
visit Vietnam after the war and the
Vietnamese general he met with was like
you were trying to turn Vietnam into an
American colony and he’s like no no that
was absolutely not what we were trying
to do there but from a Vietnamese
perspective there was what at the height
there was like hundreds of thousands of
American troops in South Vietnam
if that’s not colonialism what is no
doubt I mean you can see no doubt from
their perspective yeah yeah but that was
not what we were trying to accomplish
there so I think those nuances are
something I tried to capture in this
book and explain you know all the good
and all of the bad and I also wrote it
for the the perspective of the 18 year
old kid who’s in my position when I was
his age thinking of joining the military
I want there to be some actual content
in this book I talked about the mistakes
I made you know things like a friendly
fire incident because when that kid
who’s thinking about joining the
military reads the book I want there to
be like some practical hands-on lessons
that they can take away from that and
apply to their own military career and
hopefully avoid some of the things I got
into well first of all again thank you
for your service I simply went as a 63
Bravo you when I became a Special Forces
Ranger you went to war you protected
this country you put your life on the
line and I personally thank you for
doing that for those of you that are
military people a lot of people that
followed by atemi you know you there’s a
lot of Pro military guy
click on a link below to order his book
and it’ll be coming out again April 23rd
depending on when you see this readers
book you can send him a tweet as well I
know he’s on Twitter we’ll put his
handle over here mine’s over here I’m
actually curious to know what you took
away from today sit down that we have
with Jack Murphy we want to hear from
you on Twitter send Anna send us a
message with that being said buddy
thanks so much for joining us thank you
so much and happily and again it’s
really rare that you get to do these
long-form interviews so I really
appreciate the opportunity I appreciate
you being open to it and actually
sharing your story and your testimony with us truly thank you
you trust
I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one to ask
it one way or the other there’s very few
people who bring the meat potatoes I
think a journalist is somebody that the
more division there is the more money
they make let’s just face the truth and
who holds them accountable do we hold
people accountable for exercising their
freedom of speech we have a relationship
you’re the expert I’m not the expert I
don’t have time to go run a research and
do everything your facts can all be
right but the story is still wrong the
truth is somewhere in the middle right
people are addicted to their outrage
they want to be angry every day I think
would freak the average person out to
have their emotions removed from their
political beliefs
that’s like tearing someone’s throat
weird you know whatever you have the
emotion not you the journalist I don’t
want you to have the emotion I want the
journalist to tell me the truth
[Music]
so today I’m sitting with somebody that
may be an anomaly and let me explain to
you why you see when you join the u.s.
army that one MOS that people that don’t
get good scores on their ass Webbys you
go become an 11 Bravo so I study on up
on this scanner so he sent eleven
probably not the smartest guy in the
world you know because I was a 63 Bravo
I wasn’t a smartest guy in the world and
then he goes in the army goes becomes a
ranger Special Forces serves for 10
years goes to Iraq Syria Afghanistan all
over got some crazy stories ten years
later decides to get out goes to
Columbia School Ivy League you know post
military and becomes a journalist and
then he writes a book that we’re gonna
talk about today called the Murphy’s
that with that being said Jack Murphy
good to have you on my team thanks for
having me yes so listen I know I’m a big
fan of the movie wedding crashers and I
don’t know if you see wedding crashers
or uh no absolutely awesome movies an
army right so wedding crashers and the
stories about Vince Vaughn and Owen
Wilson crashing weddings yeah and that’s
pretty epic on what they’ve done but in
the movie they never crash the
terrorists wedding you know what do you
do when you crash the terrorists winning
I read about you crashing a terrorist
win yeah what is that all about you kind
of say let’s go find the ladies at this
terrorists wedding or what is that would
have been one way to go I think she was
about 16 so it wasn’t probably us but it
was also an arranged marriage this is
different part of the world and you know
the difficulty in finding terrorists of
course is they’re trying to stay below
the surface and underground they’re
trying to do everything they can to stop
us from finding them this was 2009 in
Iraq so they had gotten used to being
hunted down by Special Forces teams but
we had intelligence information that
told us where and when he was getting
married his name was Abu Ghani he was a
terrorist facilitator doing IEDs strikes
all sorts of really nasty stuff and we
found out he was getting married in
Missoula so we came driving in and
Humvees crept right up to the compound
where he was getting married busted in
the front door raided it with our Iraqi
SWAT team counterparts there was a how
many people or this would it I’d say
something about maybe 25 people or so
the
malory the goat was sitting there in the
courtyard panting the entire team that’s
so many ten when I lived in Iran that
was very normal yeah yeah I’m very not
very common yeah the the bride they had
already been married the bride was in
the other room with the women the men
were out front they were getting ready
to start drinking it actually which is
another custom after they get married
but Abu Ghani had not consummated the
marriage yet as we came to discover so
we kind of got there in the nick of time
we detained him we also detained his
father who I didn’t know this until we
got him back to the base he was very
nonchalant like didn’t care at all
his wedding is his son’s wedding just
got raided by Special Forces and he
seems like he had not a care in the
world it’s weird when we got backed into
what way though and what not caring like
I’m used to so nothing like like
laughing joking like he didn’t take it
seriously
I don’t know fear no fear at all no none
at all and I don’t speak Arabic very
well at all so I couldn’t communicate
with him on that level but just for the
through the mannerisms and it was very
clear that firstly he thought it was a
joke when we got back to the compound in
the law firm you took both of them we
took both of them one of the Iraqi SWAT
team members was talking to me we’re
smoking cigarettes in the bunker and he
said yeah the old man he he killed my
cousin and I was like what what and he
said yeah yeah he killed my cousin he
killed a lot of people and tell afar
back in the day and I was like what are
you talking about me and he’s like yeah
the old man he’s even worse than the son
he was putting faith was on people
having police officers assassinated Wow
and we went back there and found it yeah
he wasn’t he was like a serial killer
and you didn’t know that no I know at
the time I had no idea interesting so
you went it for the Sun realizing the
the father was more vicious than to some
was the son was more active at the time
and terrorist networks but the the the
father was probably just as prolific
under the new Iraqi laws and the
American agreement with him how his
Status of Forces Agreement we had to
release both of them to Iraqi custody
pretty much immediately the father
disappeared I never saw him again
he because he’s now released into the
custody of the police force that he had
been terrorizing all those years never
saw that guy again meaning when you say
never saw him again what are you saying
are you saying it was are you saying
he’s free it was
intimated to me that he was disappeared
into the desert the son was handcuffed
to the cell and we would come back
months later and he would still be
wearing that same wedding suit
handcuffed standing get us out here no
months later yeah so so the entire said
he hated this these guys yes and there’s
a it was out of our hands was out of
America it’s not to excuse myself or
push the culpability elsewhere but under
the Status of Forces Agreement we could
object but we had no power to very
interesting well I mean that’s a
different kind of a wedding to crash but
you know more power to you so so let me
ask you let’s go back so sure you know
some people joined the army because the
family’s all army like I’m talking to
general McChrystal his dad’s a to stun
his uncle’s this everybody’s this
everybody’s the minister so you know
from the moment I was a kid I kind of
know was gonna join the army right so
I’m joined the army because of GI Bill
you know how I’m gonna go get my job
some joined the army for benefits I’m
joined the army because it’s a safe
place and then some join the army
because of an event took place that
inspired them to want to join the army
a movie and event a crisis what was the
reason why et cetera sir you know I
think I was one of those weird ones I
was one of those anomalies I came from
Westchester County New York my
graduating class I believe I was the
only person who joined the military
really it’s not a common thing around
here it’s not something that people do
but for me although I didn’t have any
family members who are in the military
it was something I always wanted to do
since I was a little kid I knew this is
who I wanted to do you know why do you
remember a movie do you remember like
any leg did you watch and will be over
and over again yeah well I was a big fan
of all kinds of predator I mean all
those classic films aliens the Space
Marines is so cool but there’s one thing
that got me interested in Special
Operations I think I was probably like
eight years old you remember the movie
Patriot Games with Harrison Ford whores
there’s that scene in the movie where
the British SAS comes out through the
desert and they raid this terrorist camp
in Libya and you know the guy back at
CIA headquarters is watching it on the
satellite feed you slip in his coffee
that’s a kill and my mind as a little
kid ah struggling to understand like
what this isn’t war like the world war
two movies yeah see what is this I’m
looking at
my mom I was watching it with and she’s
like secret mission I was like secret
mission you can do that and she was like
yeah of course and that was I think I
was like eight maybe eight or nine well
you remember this vividly different
visual oh yeah yeah and that was the
moment where I was like I want to be one
of those guys did your mom have any
problem when he joined the army was
there any mom son situation she was she
had trepidations about it of course I’m
you know her only son I can’t blame her
for that but she was very supportive my
family is always very supportive of me
so who are you in high school if I was
in high school with you who were you I’d
be the weird kid that put together
computers listen to electronic music
this antisocial weird kid yeah from that
to the army yeah for sure and you knew
you were gonna go in at some point
mm-hmm okay so now you go in the army
what at what point did you go 11 Bravo
range your Special Forces when did that
happen immediately because I signed it
what’s called an option 40 contract so
that puts you into the pipeline that go
to infantry basic training Airborne
School and then the Ranger
indoctrination program so it gives you a
shot at going to a range of the death so
pre MEPs when you sign your orders you
knew you were gonna go through that it
was well you did mention that you know a
catalyzing event um for me I had I knew
I wanted to be in the military I knew I
wanted to go to war yeah but before 9/11
that wasn’t happening we had a very
peacetime military so I was thinking
about joining the French Foreign Legion
and I was planning on that and then 9/11
happened and everything changed I was
like well US military’s going to war
it’s happening now so went in and yeah
did I juice you up when that happens
you’re like that I that pissed you what
was the emotion that you saw it made me
angry because the brutality of it and
the the number of civilian casualties
that’s an indicative of al Qaeda I mean
it’s a death cult they that’s what they
want and it’s almost killing just for
the sake of killing well you know how
you hear these stories like you know
football players film you know I you
know I saw it I couldn’t stand it I was
so I wanted to do something to serve my
country and I wanted to go get the enemy
was that where the fire came like I
cannot believe they just did this to my
soul you are not gonna do this to my
homeland was it that emotion at the risk
of maybe
ascribing more hindsight than foresight
even as a teenager I could see the
terrorism was escalating in the United
States we see these events the USS Cole
from Khobar towers to the first World
Trade Center bombing you see these
escalating events and it seems like our
government was not really taking it
seriously we weren’t aggressively
pursuing these guys these networks oh
yes these
so 9/11 that the fact that there was an
escalating a larger attack was not
necessarily a surprise you know I want I
want to come back to this because I want
I want to know one what could we have
done to prevent a 9/11 and number two
are we set up in a position to where
another 9/11 could happen today or are
we in a safer place where it can’t
happen today matter-of-factly if you
don’t mind just touching up on that
because I talked to Carrick I’ve talked
to a few people that were involved in
the whole 9/11 thing Bernard Kerik was
the Commissioner at that time when he
was involved with this but when you say
America wasn’t fully prepared or looking
for protecting against the tax like that
what could we have really done
differently at that time there’s been a
lot of information coming out of the
9/11 Commission report even recently
declassified documents about the Saudi
involvement and the Saudis were watching
these guys we were watching these guys
the CIA had some awareness of what they
that they were part of a cell and that
they were planning something that there
was these transfers of money through
Malaysia and elsewhere I think there
were many different opportunities to
disrupt the network had we tried but
again this is hindsight is twenty-twenty
and then of course we could have been
more aggressive in pursuing al-qaida
abroad there were opportunities to kill
Osama bin Laden in Sudan and elsewhere
and I think the Clinton administration
was a little risk averse and pursuing
some of those lines meaning meaning that
they didn’t want the potential political
fallout the 1990s comes on the tail end
of iran-contra a lot of consternation
about covert operations about
assassinations during the Reagan years
so I think the the administration saw
the end of the Cold War happened and
they didn’t want to go back down that
road
you know you know one of the things that
I wonder is from the outside it’s almost
like you know if you make the decision
and say we take somebody out or we go
extremely aggressive to prevent like for
instance I remember back in 76 77 Carter
was campaigning around about the whole
human rights thing right human rights
human rights human rights and they kept
talking about that the Shah has 3,000
political prisoners in Iran this was a
whole and I know you’re dealing with
something with Iran that Iran has 3,000
political prisoners and this dictator is
not being right and he’s not doing the
right thing and he should let him out
and at the same time Carter was kind of
pushing Cuba with the whole Merial
boatlift you know you you you have all
these prisoners you should let them out
and you know finally your Cuba’s like I
fine I’ll let them out your summary or
both I’ll give you all my prisoners and
I’ll go to Miami Miami next year
unemployment you know 50 percent and
Iran eventually they force those 3,000
political prisoners to come out and that
you know creates Osama bin Laden all
these Isis all these other groups so how
do we as you know citizens who are not
in it how do we differentiate between
the right decision and the wrong
decision I mean we’re never really gonna
know right right the president make the
right decision or now and very rarely is
there a clear right and wrong any
operation like the 1980 evil claw
operation to rescue American hostages
being held in Iran had that mission been
a success we all would have clapped our
hands you know these are our heroes you
know the administration’s so great but
you know something I talk about in the
book I mean it’s a fine line between
hero and zero and Annamma saying the men
who tried to execute that operation or
zeros a far from it they’re actually my
heroes because they had you know as one
one author who wrote a book about he
said they had the guts to try one Delta
Force officer who’s retired he told me
the worst thing that can ever happen to
us isn’t mission failure as bad as that
is the worst thing that could ever
happen to us is that all those people
out there come to believe that we’re too
chicken even try that’s the worst thing
that can happen to us that our public
comes to believe that we’re too chicken
to defend
has that ever happened I mean while
again with the risk aversion and these
opportunities we had to you know
assassinate bin Laden who pulls that out
dude that’s not the milk is from my time
in the military like you guys are
itching for things you know what I’m
saying it’s like yes the military has to
be held back oh yeah yeah if you have to
be held like it’s like a pitbull wanted
to fight me you’re like listen relax
relax right it’s it’s coming from a
different standpoint so I don’t know if
America has that perspective of that
happening maybe sometimes it is too much
brutality that maybe we don’t see you
know when you hear about the whole
waterboarding well I think they’re just
not being fair to the whole P or w code
that we have that you shouldn’t be doing
that and you shouldn’t be doing this and
then you talk to guys that are in the
moment they’re like you don’t even know
what this guy did to that city you don’t
even know how brutal human being this is
like the stuff we tell you what this guy
did wouldn’t even make it in movies it’s
the tactical versus strategic view and
tactically there may be something that
be gained from those sorts of
interrogations but strategically and
morally on the world stage we may lose
power or soft power or prestige and
those are all things that have to be
taken into account how do you process
tattoo though how do i decipher between
the two are there are some things that
are better known to public than knowing
about I mean I’m a total mess I know
what you’re asking but I I’m an advocate
for transparency and I believe there has
to be government accountability there
has to be oversight I think it’s
incumbent on the American public to know
about these things I think that they I
don’t think they can just wash their
hands and pretend like they can’t send
the Jack Murphy’s of the world to go and
do their dirty work and think their
hands are clean that’s not okay it will
come back on us and it will impact our
country I mean you can see what’s
happening now all these veterans are
coming home and a lot of them are
struggling struggling with PTSD TBI
joblessness homelessness we can’t just
turn around and pretend that we’re not
responsible for these things what
happened today with taking
responsibility for the aftermath of war
that’s that’s what I’m getting to the
human damage the psychological and
physical damage there’s no question I
did a podcast with a group of four
Marines and they were talking about
Pat what do you think needs to happen
with this whole you know PTSD so many
people are experiencing I mean we got 30
million veterans right in America right
now and you don’t know how many tomorrow
going through the whole ETS a half the
part is not being able to adjust from
the military life yes civilian life
that’s very tough by the way most people
don’t realize like the difficulties with
that you’re accustomed to a system four
o’clock six o’clock formation chow
PT you know it’s like everything is
you’re being told what to do next and
you’re going to the civilian life so
we’ve you know we spend a lot of time
talking about PTSD on different podcasts
but the question I’m asking you is are
there some things that is better off
people not known about I guess let me
explain it this way parents they do
certain things they go through certain
things should kids know everything and
they protect their children yes should
kids know everything so should the
populace because I and I’m telling you
this being very transparent with you I
think a person who’s a president sits
there and says this is gonna create
havoc if we tell the media about it
they’re gonna go nuts
this gonna create havoc we’re better off
not disclosing this because if we do
it’s gonna lead to the enemy that we’re
trying to attack and no one about our
strategy our game rising public so how
do you decipher between the two well
there’s definitely a role for government
secrecy military secrecy all those
things are imperative I think for
carrying out successful operations but
as a veteran I don’t think it’s really
our role to come back home and sort of
shame our culture or try to make them
feel bad you know I deal with some
things that that I witnessed or was
involved in as does you know most of the
guys who are over there but do I want to
put that monkey on the back of you know
the people I wrote on the subway with to
get here today no of course not so I
think there is a role in protecting them
from that we don’t want those people to
have to live with the things that a lot
of our soldiers do it’s not necessarily
that we’re not willing to tell them the
truth it’s more that we’re not going to
just empty all of it onto them there are
moments where you’re in the
the battle right so there’s anxiety
levels or it Peaks okay you know your
first I’ll go into your first war and
your land in Iraq the first time maybe
there’s a little bit of a you know
anxiety jerk right or the first time you
do a jump okay and it’s a you know
whatever secret jump you’re doing late
night at two o’clock in the morning okay
you don’t know where you’re going you
have your night-vision goggles on it’s a
little bit of anxiety I don’t know if
they’re gonna see us if they see us am I
gonna die and I’m just gonna go down
like your imagination take a picture
takes all of you what was the moment for
you where you’re if there’s a Richter
scale like they do in football games of
how loud the audience is being when was
it when it just went off the charts and
you were fully so much heat in the
battery like I don’t know what the hell
is about to happen right now what was
that moment for you yeah there was there
was I mean when you say that there’s one
moment that jumps out at me it was my
first appointment to Afghanistan and it
was a situation where we were on a
reconnaissance patrol I was a sniper at
the time and we had been tasked with
tracking down the individual who who
planned the ambush that killed Pat
Tillman actually and we went out and I
was at what’s called a Mission Support
site it’s like a handful of guys who are
kind of stationary with a radio while a
six-man reconnaissance patrol is out
actually reconning the objective and
what the recon Patrol told us was that
there was a they had eyes on a 10-person
element like Taliban with heavy weapons
moving towards our location and what I
made the decision to do was to set in a
hasty near ambush on the road so that we
could ambush these guys before they got
to the MSS so we went down the road a
little bit I had one other American with
me and about ten Afghan paramilitary
soldiers who had been trained by the CIA
put them all down in the prone position
behind trees trying to get them down
behind cover even though they all wanted
to squat and fire from the hip trying to
get everybody down trying to get
everyone positioned trying to do the
Ranger school thing as difficult as that
is in real life and then I got down in
the prone
a tree and I remember sitting there
looking looking over the scope of my
sniper rifle down at the road it’s
probably like 15 meters in front of me
if that like man look like we’re really
gonna be on top of these guys and
they’re about to come down the road any
moment and that was a moment for me
where like fear just abject fear was
like a physical fear I don’t think was
even my mind was like my body telling me
you’re about to die and it just washed
over me it was a kind of a pivotal
moment for me I think in the sense that
I made a decision right then I knew I
was about to die and I said well I’m
gonna take as many of them with me as
possible and then I was calm like
whatever that was I just I had pushed
through it and I feel like something
changed inside me that day how long was
that process like as you’re going
through it you know what I’m saying
Michael not less than a minute
let’s stick yeah from high anxiety to
being calm yeah like you accept that in
fact I could die right now
screw it I’m gonna have to do my best
yeah and do what you know you were
trained to do and unfortunately this
story doesn’t have a happy ending but
amazingly it could have been much worse
it was a friendly fire incident because
what happened was that the ricotta
salata walked into the hasty ambush that
I had set up the result was a fairly
substantial firefight bullets shooing
into the tree that I was taking cover
behind dirt being kicked up in my face
the afghans started jumping up and down
talking on the radio there’s something
clearly wrong but we didn’t understand
what and eventually it came across no
shoot no shoot stop stop stop but
because of the language barrier we could
not we did not have communications with
our recon patrol or our MSS the mission
support site and because the language
barrier is difficult to talk to the
Afghans so at this point the only thing
to do which I was remiss to do because
you never stand up in an ambush but
somebody had to sort this thing out so I
told the one other American with me like
look I’m gonna stand up I’m gonna go
down there I’m gonna figure out what’s
going on yeah and I didn’t feel like you
know I had any other choice at the time
so I stood up walk down to the road
literally like this you have to hold up
the weapon or what are you doing because
if you go like this I’m thinking gonna
shoot me I held my weapon in my hand
because I didn’t know who’s down there
okay and I walked down to the road and
as I got down there I came face-to-face
with my good friend Paul who was on the
recon patrol and when he looked at me
and I looked at him and we both said
what the fuck just happened
anybody got cute no oh one person was
shot one person was shot I shot them
yeah you shot the one person as a sniper
Wow so how does the military handle
situations like that when you go back
like a meeting Kay what is wrong with
you guys I’m sorry to laugh because of
the seriousness of the situation and one
soldier was hurt although I was a flesh
wound thank God but the the military
doesn’t necessarily know how to handle
something like that they launched an
investigation you know right off the bat
yeah you know with cause there’s good
reason to so they sent an investigator
down and interviewed us and then they
made a determination they didn’t
necessarily fault me for it they
acknowledged that I made sensible
tactical decisions there were some
things that could have been done
differently both tactically and
communications wise that could have
stopped that incident from taking place
but I carried out the rest of the
deployment doing my job good for them
yeah yeah they had every reason to make
me a human sacrifice and they did it
well and it just tells you a Congress
your peers at something the story it’s
it’s something I’m very grateful to the
Ranger Regiment for giving me a second
chance because they didn’t have to do
that and and the regiment isn’t known
for giving second chain really no so it
that they gave me the opportunity to
prove myself or redeem myself as
something I’m very grateful to that how
many times were you in a situation where
you actually had to go up against the
enemy and and take the kill shot how
many times were you in situations like
many times I don’t think I necessarily
killed anyone but many times in
firefights the next deployment was 2005
to Iraq where it was a very hot
deployment we were in Missoula we were
doing what was called TS TS or
time-sensitive targets so the Intel
audience was being developed so quickly
the churn was handling so quickly that
sometimes we would get to go into a room
and have a brief and say okay this is
where we’re going this is a basic plan
of action scheme of maneuver a lot of
times it happens so quickly they just
gave us a grid here you go and you get
on the vehicles and go there were times
where they told us to just get on the
vehicles and go and I didn’t get a grid
until we were on the way there until we
were already outside the gate and I know
that because I was words the second half
of the deployment I was the what’s
called the TC the tactical command or
tank commanders when it comes from on
Stryker vehicles he’s eight wheeled you
know they’re like 25 tonne vehicles I
would have the laptop open with the GPS
and the map on it Galt is a program
called Falcon View and the grid would
come over the radio and I’d have to plug
it into the computer like okay that’s
where we’re going and then we’d the
convoy to the target so things were
happening so quickly and we’re getting
in a firefight so often it was three
months of it’s supposed to be a marathon
but it felt like a three-month sprint we
were just exhausted other pat tillman
was the NFL right for us I said Spillman
I don’t know why sit still maybe there
was another linebacker with that name
but Pat Tillman so so you know how much
of it today because when I think about
I’m like okay when you think about war
today how much of it is air strike is
the same idea with bayonets and you know
you would have to go do the bayonet
exercise and boot camp and you know
marksmanship and you know you’re an
expert you this how much does you know
foot on the ground still have the same
effect versus today it’s just an air
strike okay get the grid you know make
the shot you know attack the enemy in
it’s game over how much of it has
changed what air strike versus ground
yeah I mean I think even since the
Vietnam War things have changed
substantially because of the technology
precision guided munitions are ISR with
drones and satellite coverage and
everything else has improved things
significantly but with that said we find
ourselves fighting in urban built-up
areas we end up finding ourselves
fighting counterinsurgencies like I was
talking about before tsts or high value
target strikes
where you’re trying to capture the
leadership of these terrorist networks
or even things where you’re doing
something that involves hostage rescue
not that I was involved in that
specifically or if you’re trying to do
counter-proliferation and secure weapons
of mass destruction these are all things
that robots cannot do for us yeah so
there’s still a necessity to put boots
on the ground there’s things that only
human beings can do and going into you
know raiding a high-rise hotel and
pulling a terrorist out of a certain
room if something that you know robotics
and satellites and artificial
intelligence can’t do and probably
aren’t going to be able to do for at
least a few more decades at least a few
more decades okay but eventually you’re
thinking the whole thing is going to go
into a you know technology in the next
video I think so you can see Special
Operations Command right now is
developing what’s called the Talos suit
which is an exoskeleton runs off of at
least the last I knew it ran off a
combination of gasoline electric engine
it was designed to mitigate the fact
that we have operators we have soldiers
entering and clearing rooms and guys are
getting shot going through the doorway
guys are getting blown up when they go
into rooms by IEDs or suicide vests okay
so they had this idea will develop this
exoskeleton and it’ll help protect our
soldiers but if you think about the
exoskeleton itself is really just a
stepping stone to having autonomous
androids that do the room clearing for
us I mean that is the next logical step
after the exoskeleton I don’t think
we’re far off from it I don’t think it’s
something that we’re far off from it I
you know it’s so crazy you watch movies
and you say oh my gosh that’s crazy
it’ll never happen and you’re just 20 30
years later it’s becoming a reality it’s
in our lifetime yeah I agree I think so
I like that
so you know I talked to my buddies who
were in the military you know and I
asked him those who went to war and
actually experienced stuff and they were
part of stuff right whether it’s Osama
bin Laden or Saddam Hussein or any of
this stuff and I asked him I say so what
you saw when you were a part of it
versus what the media talked about how
do you feel about it and I’ve had
certain answers I’ve heard but I want to
hear from you how what is the level of
accuracy of what the media says versus
what actually happened well the media I
said that you’re part of the media right
yeah I work I work as a journalist but I
won’t parse my words on it I mean I
think the the American media overall
they’re fairly accurate with their facts
and this is the thing that you have to
explain to people a lot of times is that
your facts can all be right but the
story is still wrong because it’s
contextualized in a certain way
interesting and the the press a lot of
times misses that context sometimes it’s
because of a bias sometimes it’s just
because they’re in the moment they’re
they have to report that one story get
it in make their deadline move on to the
next story and they don’t have time for
that really like in-depth reporting so
you end up with something that’s sort of
a historical it doesn’t really give you
the context of what’s happening but as
far as you know my experience versus
what I see in the media that was
something I tried to capture a lot in
the book because I think there’s just
such a difference between what we
experienced in the moment in combat
versus how we come to feel about it in
the decades afterwards and and we know
we know more information in the decades
afterwards than we did at that time when
you’re you know you’re that guy on the
ambush line you know you have very
limited information but you know as you
come to learn more and more about what
was going on both tactical your
geopolitically you come to know a lot
more and sometimes as veterans what we
do is we use that information we’ve
acquired after the fact to color our
experiences and and that leads to maybe
an inaccurate perception of what was
happening at the time so when you watch
media right now who do you trust
I mean like for us there’s no explain to
what I mean so I don’t position it as
I’m trying to pigeonhole you to st. CNN
fox or MSNBC I’m that’s not what I’m
asking
let me preface what I’m asking sure so
back in the days you know you would hear
about in Iran we had a TV guy who was my
father-in-law my sister’s husband’s
father who passed off i-70 money he
would tell the news and it was just
telling the news here’s what happened
right
Cronkite would tell the news and here’s
what happened today it’s I’m telling my
news on what’s going on right because
I’m emotionally attached
to one side or I’m emotionally attached
to my own political beliefs and no one’s
that dumb everybody knows Fox leans to
the right
CNN leans to left the MSNBC’s maybe
further left and CNN is a New York Times
being here it’s pretty pretty much all
that Business Insider is probably gonna
be independent you know you can go
through all these things on where
they’re gonna be at time it’s gonna be
on the left New York Post is gonna be on
the right Washington Post is gonna be on
the Left all these things you look at
who is the fairest today that is
actually telling the news that when you
look at saying this person is being
being fair here who would you say it is
you know I don’t really put any stock in
any particular news outlet especially
you know the bigger ones are staffed by
many different editors many different
points of view many different you know
potential agendas so I wouldn’t put all
my eggs in one basket one way or the
other I think in the in the realm I work
in in the defense or special operations
news there’s very few people who bring
the meat and potatoes I think there are
a few out there that I’ve read that I
think are pretty good I think Shawn
Navarre is a pretty good journalist I
think Kevin Mauer is another guy who’s
done some really good work and I think
they do their best to tell the truth you
know of course what the truth is depends
on where we sit you know I might have a
different perspective than somebody else
but I think those are a few who do their
best yeah so you went to Columbia
University and your major was a
political science I believe yes the poly
SIA and why what happened what’s the
what’s the reason post-military to go
into journalism because you know for me
again what I’m curious to know is that
something happened for you to say I
think I can do it better I think the
truth needs to be told I think the
integrity of journalism is gone
what if spire do you want to go that
route I wish I could say that my reasons
were so noble but I really was something
that I kind of stumbled my way into I
came out of the military like a lot of
things like a lot of other veterans not
really necessarily knowing what I was
going to do with myself
my girlfriend was pregnant we were gonna
have a baby very excited about that but
now I have to completely refigure out
what I’m gonna do with myself so I
started college started at Mercy and
Dobbs Ferry which is just up the line
here
it’s good school did my first year there
but I figured I’d take advantage of my
GI Bill and do the best I possibly can
so I applied to Columbia and NYU and I
ended up going to Columbia went there
got my degree initially I was getting my
degree in history but I got kind of
frustrated with the history department
about in the in the book a bit and
changed my major to political science
which was good it was a good call I
enjoyed that
then I had written a novel I had this
idea that you know you have these
thriller writers out there and some of
them are very good but most of them
didn’t serve in the military at all and
you know Here I did all these things and
Rangers and Special Forces well and I
take a stab at it so I wrote a book the
novel and then that got me kind of found
by other people who asked me to start
writing like weapons reviews and gear
reviews you know basic stuff like that
that’s what kind of got me into online
media and then at a certain point I was
working with this former Navy SEAL who
proposed let’s go off on her own start
our own website own news and information
website I agreed and that was kind of
the genesis of it and as it evolved I
realized you know it’s like look we need
to do if we’re going to be credible we
need to do real news we need to start
going abroad not just writing about our
recollections telling war stories from
the good old days we have to start going
overseas when you start shaking hands
meeting people interviewing people and
doing some real reporting so it was a
progression that happened somewhat
accidentally every industry has a
certain set of guidelines that they’re
held accountable whether it’s a
fiduciary responsibility or whatever
they have what responsibilities and
guidelines do journalists have and who
holds them accountable like you know
financial we’re in an insurer side
you’re gonna be the you know state the
Department of Insurance holds you
accountable okay lawyers State Bar you
know is gonna hold you accountable
securities on securities you know SEC
FINRA holds you accountable who holds
journalists accountable yeah well that’s
a great question and the the question
also involves do we hold people
accountable for
exercising their freedom of speech and
that’s something that we can apply
across society at large yeah but but the
difference is I’m not a journalist let’s
just say right should this should the
CRB of course I mean for me first of all
if if you on your Twitter account if it
says journalists I have to hold you at a
higher standard cuz I’m here and paid
for it right somebody that’s not getting
paid for you know sharing their thoughts
that’s a different story but you are a
professional journalist who holds you
accountable you know in an ideal world I
think editors way to hold their
employees accountable publishers would
hold their editors and employees
accountable but at the end of the day I
think it’s the public that has to hold
journalism accountable and the public
right now is at a time in place where
they are addicted to the outrage and
they’re probably not at all well placed
to hold journalists accountable so yeah
we’re in a challenging time right now
for journalists and not to speak bad
about you know some of my peers I
suppose but journalists can be
incredibly self-indulgent self-involved
and self-righteous and in some ways
these journalistic interest institutions
come to resemble the power structures
that they claim to speak truth to they
engage in a lot of the same type of
behavior so I think we’re in a period
right now where of readjustment and you
know I don’t even know if our generation
is really going to figure that out that
might be our kids that are able to
grapple with the internet and social
media and finding some sort of sanity in
there you know what I’d like to see
here’s what I like to see how what am I
seeing this think about more you think
about if journalists you have a you know
how FICO score a body’s got a FICO score
you go Experian TransUnion Equifax okay
you got a 620 score I’m the bank I’m not
gonna give you a good rate but I’ll give
you six point one percent you got up a
25% down instead of 10% whatever you
know your credit score is a 20 no
problem what do you need finance in
here’s a million dollars you got your
house you’re good to go because your
credit score is good based on your last
ten years or seven years you’ve paid
everything on time you’re solid you paid
off one house another house you paid off
four car
you’re good we trust you I mean I would
love like you know how you have Yelp
holes businesses accountable you know
you got some of these places that whole
matter of fact it’s a business
opportunity if we if there was a website
like pew researchers middle like pew
doesn’t come out and lean right or left
right when CNSs post came out
president Trump State of Union speech
was horrible because you know and it Fox
comes out and Trump State of Union
speech historically is gonna be known as
the greatest state of Union speech of
all time okay the truth is somewhere in
the middle right okay Pew Research is
there I would be so curious to know
about a scoring system that scores the
validity of journalists and who’s
telling the truth and who is so
emotionally caught up on what they’re
telling so you can simply pull it up and
say oh now I realize who the guys that
scored the highest because these guys
tell the truth they don’t have their
opinion to it and this other guys
emotional I’m not gonna listen to this
guy anymore
yeah that’s an opportunity for business
just so you know but now you’re asking
to you know objectify truth that’s a do
you never meet or not necessarily not
necessarily I like for instance if you
put that barometer on Alex Jones okay if
it’s gonna be based on fire like you
know I don’t know if your sports guy or
sports or not particularly you know big
debate Oh who’s the greatest Michael
Jornal a bronze giant so like a modern
you’re right in everybody you shoot on
Jordan against M against Kobe today’s
Jordan you can look at their stats but
there are elements that you can’t look
at stats for instance who’s a better
teammate right you know some may say
what people like playing with LeBron
more well what does that really mean you
know they like playing with LeBron
because he’s a better locker room guy
he’s nicer it’s cool his Chili’s a guy
who can go hang out with but people saw
the killer instinct of Mg how the hell
you measure killer instinct you can’t
measure you can’t say here take my blood
on a positive K I what’s ki I’m killer
instinct I score at the highest level so
for me on the under journalism side I
think there’s gonna be some that’s going
to be here’s how many lies have been
told this year 97 okay and then the
other side will be some special
sensationalize what sensationalize you
probably put Alex Jones in there you’d
probably put a bunch of different guys
and they’re from both sides so I think
there’s got to be a way to hold your
industry accountable because it’s
getting very annoying when I’m telling
you it’s getting very annoying it’s
getting very annoying because I don’t
even want to turn on fox or CNN I turn
off all the notifications on my phone I
don’t want to see it anymore so I all
I’m and and again I’m giving you a rant
a little bit because every time I talk
to anybody from any industry I speak
freely on what I think about your
industry and then you can do whatever
you want one of my good friends Phil
Heath who’s a seven-time mr. Olympia he
and I were going back and forth on text
last night and just back and forth back
and forth back and forth and he brought
up and he says you know because of our
conversation we had on what you thought
about the mr. Olympia I have made these
different adjustments and here’s what
it’s led to it’s led to this business to
that to that business but you know I sit
there myself here’s what I want I want
somebody to do a news the following way
this is my this is in a perfect world
this is utopia for me this is Nirvana
right this is like I’m living with
unicorns flying all over the place for
me it would be a journalist to say hey
here’s what we’re at Democrats look at
this as the following five things
Democrats are gonna say he did this he
did that he did this he did it he did
that okay that’s what they’re saying
okay and that’s what they’re bothered by
Republicans are gonna say that that that
that that that that here’s what they’re
comfortable with here’s what they’re not
happy with here’s what Democrats gonna
say now let me give you some of the
stuff that neither is paying attention
to pop pop pop pop pop this is what
they’re not paying attention to these
are the things that we have to really
pay attention to I think Republicans
make good points on these two Democrats
make good points on these two but these
three points you may want to go research
for yourself a little bit more I don’t
see a lot of I couldn’t agree with you
more I’d love to see that the problem
right now is that the market is speaking
and the market doesn’t want that the
market could go and just read wire
reports off Reuters an APO about that I
said Mike Rowe you don’t want to talk
about dirty jobs yeah he would write
stuff on Facebook 600 thousand shares
yeah it’s just kind of telling you do
simple middle I don’t put the guy as
Republican I don’t put the guy as I put
the guy’s the middle and the market says
we like it I wish he you know he would
do more stuff that would you think they
would open their wallets for it do I
think they would open up their wall
would they pay for that content no I
think they don’t open up their wallet
not because they don’t want that to be
told and I’m being very honest with you
I think they don’t want to open up that
wallet because they personally don’t
want that to be told and I’ll explain to
you why okay journalists I tell you what
a journalist is here’s here’s how to
look at a journalist a journalist is
somebody that the more division there is
the more money they make let’s just face
the truth the more divisional publisher
the journalist isn’t getting a paycheck
increase what’s the guy at the top the
guy that runs the business the owner of
CA you know Turner right you know Fox
Ruby and what Paul is then that trickles
down and A’s yeah I’m looking for
division I don’t one United I don’t want
the United States of America I make
money when it’s two divided States of
America I’m killing it with
advertisement when everybody is you know
trying that when I create this image
that everybody hates each other it’s not
even the truth like we get along today
better than ever but let’s create this
image that there’s really a bigger war
going on so yeah for me they would pay
for micro because there would be viewers
look at Joe Rogan here’s what your Rogen
did Joe Rogan said screw everybody screw
all of you I don’t want to be on TV and
that I don’t need my own show I’m gonna
go put my own podcast and he’s killing
all of these other guy I think you’re
right that what you’re seeing with that
is that the tide is starting to turn and
that the public is ready for the sort of
long-form discussions that maybe they
weren’t ready for just three years ago
now they’re ready to sit down and listen
to you know a Joe Rogan interview for
three and a half hours I don’t think
people would have been ready for that
even just a few years ago and I think
that is an indicator that the tide is
starting to change yeah so now the whole
thing is going to be if YouTube is going
to be not comfortable with some of the
stuff we talked about you know we we’ve
had a couple interviews we’ve done words
you know all of a sudden get an email
saying this one’s not going to be accept
Yzerman’s many of them
emails we get like that more you this is
not for advertise huh did I say why oh
you’re like I brought onboard Jim
Jenkins Jim Jenkins was one of four
people in the room that was part of the
autopsy for John F Kennedy assassinated
and he hailed a brain he held the brain
and he told us and when you see this guy
Jim Jenkins for 50 years he’s never
wanted to have limelight
ever he said don’t bother me he is you
know how you meet somebody like you know
how you meet a girl and you’re like oh
she is extremely flirtatious holy moly I
know exactly what she’s doing right you
meet a guy and you know he’s a player
it’s not hard to figure out when you see
a guy you know he’s a player like he’s a
woman or as I call he was a little bit
too comfortable with those three girls
you know he can get it done pretty
easily and you know you meet a guy
you’re like guys just a good guy you
know I guess a simple guy that that
girl’s a simple girl that was you know
when you meet Jim Jenkins you’ll say wow
just a regular guy he’s been married to
the same wife 60 years just sit in the
55 years just she said she’s sitting
right hi how are you good to meet you
very innocent and he tells a story and
we take him to the whole Dealey Plaza
we show him the whole thing and he says
no I think the shot was from here and we
got 600,000 views for speak boom they
shut it down and then it stopped then I
was getting 200 views every other day
what happened there certain story so now
going back to you saying as the public
wanted to see it the public absolutely
wants to see it but who wants to block
it from it being seen that’s the
question
YouTube’s one of the best platforms out
there I love you too I love what you to
allows us to do
I think it’s Wonder Beth to me I’m more
YouTube than on Google Facebook I am on
YouTube I love like for me consuming
content it’s great but the point I’m
trying to make to you is the fun when
you say are people wanting to pay for it
number one screw what people are willing
to pay for people are willing to pay for
prostitution I’m not gonna go start a
business or prostitution I’m gonna start
a business because I want to
legitimately make a difference in
people’s lives and tell the truth or
long term I’m gonna gain credibility
where someone’s gonna say dude when that
guy talks it’s the truth that guy’s got
a lot of credibility so I think there is
market for it I just think what we’re
missing is some brass for somebody with
some brass to come out of
say I’m gonna cream my own media company
and the way we’re gonna do it as a
following way
we’re telling this and if you go off
story and you sensationalize you’re out
of here go work for CNN or Fox you’re
not gonna work we’ve done that for the
last seven years and I’ll tell you
though it’s an it’s an on you yeah it’s
an uphill struggle you know people are
addicted to their outrage they want to
be angry every day and there’s there are
statistics that they’ve done on at the
New York Times and elsewhere there’s a
called contagion that looked at it
pretty in-depth contagious yes yeah it’s
a great book whether they talk about you
know what gets people to click we’ve
read that and many many down it was last
month we read it yeah yeah it’s good
good book but I do think you’re right
that the tide is starting to change but
that’s gonna be a process it’s gonna
take a while yeah so here’s what I
believe in we open up an office I run a
business I run a financial forum and we
open up an office we originally started
with California and it was in San
Fernando Valley Glendale Northridge we
were in that market so then I decided to
go up and up an office and go complete
opposite side which is Miami so we
opened up the office in Miami when I go
to my Miami office this is what they
start telling me they say Pat let me
tell you Miami’s different I said what
it because everybody showed up late to
the meeting my wait a minute what was
this all about
Oh Miami’s different what do you mean my
man is different you don’t understand
Miami I said no no it’s not I don’t
understand people up Miami what do you
mean you don’t miami is different well
my name is more chill and people kind of
show up when they want and all of a
sudden
bs I said let me put it to you this way
open the blinds I open up the blinds was
this office I said how many buildings
you see out there a bunch of them how
many count them pana and not enough to
count give me a number 500 perfect those
buildings were built by a group of
people that had to be held accountable
and state this support to build those
buildings up yes or else no one’s gonna
trust the limb in that building because
it’s gonna come back yes or no yes so
they have to show up on time we’re also
gonna get fired yes yes and there’s
deadlines right yes everything you’re
saying I don’t agree with I told these
guys I said there’s always a market for
somebody that’s willing to do it right
now do what other people are willing
yeah and and and I’m telling you right
now my opinion my opinion today my
opinion today there is a massive
opportunity I’m not in your world like
I’m not saying
I’m gonna do it I’m telling you so maybe
this does something for you to you know
go and say look what this guy meant
today is an insurance cover here’s what
he said I think there’s a massive
opportunity for someone to say hey
here’s what’s going on here’s our
scoring system this is what we do we
make a bad score
our guys publicly we get a lower score
if I think there is it it’s a place
where the sensationalized journalists
would hate to work at but it would be a
place where I would pay $99 a month
every month I would pay for you to send
me an email on a daily basis with
everything that took place structured in
a way where I hear both sides I would
pay $99 a month and I’m willing to bet
thousands of people would also be
willing to pay $99 a month to understand
both sides and hold everybody
accountable to say okay fair this is
good there is an emerging market for
that but I think that you may be
overestimating the size of it right now
I don’t think the average person is
ready for that
I think would freak the average person
out actually to have their emotions
removed from their political beliefs
I mean that’s like tearing someone’s
religion oh let me have the emotion not
you judge the journalist I don’t want
you to have the emotion as a journalist
and what the journalists who tell me the
truth
let me have the emotion your job isn’t
to tell the emotion side the journalist
is to tell me what took place I if we
have a relationship you’re the expert
I’m not the expert I don’t have time to
go run a research and do everything by
the way I’m not calling you up I’m
telling it’s it important I want these
videos I saw your business insider
here’s the guns this is the one people
don’t like I like this one because this
one works this way but the most common
weapon is ak-47 because even until today
a case is the best one because it’s
simple it’s easy it’s duplicated but the
gun I would always carries a
nine-millimeter because you can always
find an Amal no matter where you’re i
watch this stuff and it makes sense I’m
not saying anything by your approach I’m
talking about the industry you represent
oh I mean these are valid criticism jobs
and I think it’s gonna take a while for
us to evolve out of this pit we’re in
right now I just hope we can do it
quickly enough before we we devour
cannibalize one another
I can talk to a guy like you a forever
I’m always curious and have so much
respect and admiration for somebody
that’s willing to put their life on the
line for me to be able to go build a
business and you know live my dream life
I can’t do without a guy like you every
time I see somebody in a military
uniform and the airport I just said say
hey c’mere c’mere I’m gonna tell you
listen you’re amazing what you’re doing
thank you for which oh that’s cool you
have to do it because I don’t think they
get enough but you know for me I think
there’s a massive opportunity today for
that world and I’ll explain to you who
would be your audience when you build a
business you look at who’s your audience
you don’t look at well you know
such-and-such people don’t have my
product I started selling insurance and
I was a middle-eastern and the first
thing that early stars would say is Pat
no Middle Eastern by his life insurance
why one – religion thing – they don’t
like it 3 the husband things that you’re
hooking up with the wife or there’s a
lack of trust 5 you know they’re not
Americanized so to them it’s like
wildlife insurance why would I want to
leave my wife money when I die no it’s
all this stuff I heard and I’m being
honest with you yeah yeah if I heard so
I set them like man maybe this isn’t for
me maybe I shouldn’t be doing this and
and I said you know what Pat no who’s
the customer who is your customer it
doesn’t have to be the Middle Eastern
you are Middle Eastern Phil Jackson is
60
he doesn’t recruit 60 or basketball
players so for me if the target for you
was executives and people who are so
super busy that are trying to get the
information who have influence over
others so so they don’t have to distill
all the half I’m telling you I would pay
for it and I’m telling you there are
hundreds of thousands of people I think
that would pay for it who don’t have
time and I just want to trust it’s all I
want so if you create and literally I’m
what I’m visualizing this like the email
comes this side
here’s what Democrats will say here’s
what Republicans will say and you quote
for Democrats
you know Maddow Cooper more whatever you
put here’s what Republicans are saying
Hannity Riley you know whatever you put
their names here but here’s what we’re
seeing on some policy and I am telling
you right now if you started something
like that I would
would subscribe your first car if you
took that approach and you held the
integrity that you are responsible for
not me
journalists are dividing this country
and that is a very big opportunity for
journalists to come out and say this is
not what we do if we screw up we talk
about it this was this and we create a
scoring system nowadays you go higher to
predictive analytics guy from Stanford
you pay him some money you raise a
couple million dollars your military guy
you have credibility you go to a few
guys you’re in New York I’m sure you can
put up to two to five ten million
dollars to raise over here
you can raise some money you get two
three four predictive analytics guys you
create a scoring system for journalists
that they’re gonna be not good or not
right and you put a top on hunters
scoring system every week I’m gonna be
checking that that gamification would
make that website one the top websites
for news in a world that you’d be
looking at so I think it’s more or less
like all I’m hoping for is for someone
to be inspired with this all I’m hoping
for is for somebody to say freaking hey
this makes sense let me see what I can
do with this go for it I don’t even want
their credit for this idea I’m just
telling you what I want I got three kids
I got a wife I got a two boys and a
daughter I want I want me to be able to
say go watch this and read this no
emotions read it then you’ll see exactly
why they say this why they say this you
would be the most hated the most hated
new site out there by everybody but who
would trust you is those people who are
EF Hutton who have influenced in their
own community I’m purely given my
opinion I may be absolutely wrong on
what I’m saying but it was just my
thoughts
there are centrists out there more than
people think who would definitely read
that I think there’s it I think there’s
a market for it so anyways if you don’t
do it someone I hope so
IIIi think I think hopefully something
will take place with that so what’s next
for you what are you up to nowadays as a
journalist I know you I see your stuff
with Business Insider I see your stuff
that you do with them the articles
you’re writing matter of fact you’re
working something right now with Iran
and to create the revolution there right
yeah talk a little bit about that what’s
going on with the research you’ve been
doing on that well yeah I’ve been
working on this article about Iran
lately
looking at the various contingency
planning that we’ve done because it
looks like the Trump administration and
his National Security Advisor John
Bolton have an interest in going back
and revisiting this topic so I’ve been
going through the reports I’ve been
talking to some sources about it and
it’s very very interesting and in my
opinion it’s a bit of a fool’s errand I
don’t think it would end very well but
why do you say that there’d have to be a
massive air campaign it would put
shocking on 2003 to shame and then you
have all these underground WMD
facilities that Special Operations
soldiers would have to go in and secure
these are quite complicated operations
to penetrate and raid these underground
facilities then there would have to be
some sort of transition in government
and when I talk to people about it I ask
the question is there a shadow
government in Iran waiting to take
control and bring forth democracy and I
know and that’s the main hold up to the
plan that’s why Obama said no to it in
2013 when it was offered to him and it
sounds very much like the sort of
situation we ran into an Iraq where
there’s that initial moment of
jubilation and mission accomplished and
then everything starts to fall apart so
I think we have to be very careful on
that subject but we’re still I’m still
working on that article and flushing it
all out is to worry that – it’s not a
good idea to have a revolution or it is
good to have a revolution for the regime
to change in Iran well I mean on one
hand yeah of course we’d like to see
democracy spread we’d like to see
freedom you know but the the question
becomes you know just like during the
Cold War is every anti-communist action
we take a pro America action this was
the question I asked when I visited
Damascus and I interviewed President
Assad a few years ago I came to this
conclusion that okay trying to topple
the government of Syria might be
anti-authoritarianism but it’s not
necessarily pro America to crash this
government and have Isis essentially
take control of of this entire country
that’s bad for us and I think you have
to look at it the same way in Iran that
no regime change you know we can we can
picture in our minds I as a sort of
thought experiment that it would be a
good thing to topple this regime and try
to transition it to a democracy but
we’ve seen how this plays out for us and
just right next door in Iraq and so I
think we have to be very careful and
we’ve been very skeptical about what we
can realistically accomplish are you
looking at some candidates that could be
revolutionary new leaders that could do
that are you looking at some names i I
have not made a in depth look at
opposition parties there are some
opposition groups in Iran but I’m more
looking at it from the American
perspective right now yeah okay got it
so to be involved or not to be involved
or to benefit if we do get involved and
mix it up over there to take back to
what it used to be with democracy I
think we need to ask ourselves all those
questions okay 1953 is a big date you
got to look at with Mossad bill yeah
yeah that’s the whole thing with oil
what happened with UK Britain was
bullying them because they owned all the
rights to the oil in abadan and then
when he was gone because they didn’t
like him do CIA was involved American
CIA was involved was a pretty some say
dirty
some say necessary and then the same
thing happened with the Shah during the
Carter regime which you’re probably 78
79 yeah right after the toast Carter did
with the Reza Pahlavi in Iran I think on
December 31st of 1977 next day he left
revolution got started in your arms
pretty ugly there’s a audio I suggest
you a book to read it’s called all the
Shahs men I’ve heard of it I’ve heard
about very very good and I think it’s a
given perspective on history on what to
do but the one guy right now that’s
creating his Instagram following his
growing his Twitter following his
growing his videos on Facebook are
growing on YouTube it’s growing he’s
being interviewed all over the world BBC
is the Shahs son Reza Pahlavi who lives
in DC Wow I the the Queen Farrah she’s
still alive if you can get a sit-down
with the Reza Pahlavi representing
business insta who you doing this
article for about the company I work for
news got it I think if you if you’re
able to speak to him he’ll give you a
complete
perspective of a pro and a con I sat
down with his campaign team that flew
into LA from France to meet with us and
we went to met with him rather we had a
three-hour meeting in DC with them and
we weren’t very very deep it was never
publicized it’s not a public video but I
think he would give you incredible
insight yeah because that yeah because
there are American Iranians who are pro
revolution some that are not some of how
many people some are sharp people some
hate the Shah some love – ah and you
have to know both reasons why it’s a
very sensitive subject and once you do
write it please send it to me I want to
be one of the first to read it I’m very
curious about what’s going on there
with Iran so final thoughts tell us a
lot about the book I mean obviously
we’ve been talking a lot about it but
what else should I expect
April 23rd it’s coming out yeah you can
already go on Amazon and pre-order it so
you’ll be one of the first to get it but
tell us a little bit about them you know
I’m pretty proud of the book I’m biased
of course but I’m proud of it I’ve spent
a lot of time on it I think it tells the
whole story of a young man joining the
military being popped down in countries
like Iraq or Afghanistan where you know
you you as a young guy you don’t have
the cultural or language knowledge to
really understand the full context of
what’s going on but suddenly in a very
violent world to be honest the
romanticism of being a young soldier and
going on this adventure and and the
challenges of trying to become a ranger
or a green beret and I think a lot of
the books out there tend to fall into
one or two categories because the this
has been turned into a genre this war
memoirs onre it’s either guys bragging
about how many people they killed in the
Middle East and waving the flag and
telling people that America wouldn’t be
there if not for them or you have these
sorts of works of literature that are
like war apologies like oh I was just a
young man and the system used and abused
me and left me broke in and threw me out
on the streets this book is neither of
those things I think it’s it’s from my
perspective that you know I’m very
patriotic I’m very Pro military but at
the same time I think my experiences
abroad have left me also deeply
skeptical about American foreign policy
and what we can realistically accomplish
when we send young
and women to try to police and govern
foreign populations who you know they
just don’t want us there you know they
don’t want a foreign imposition it’s
like my squad leader when I was a ranger
and we were in Iraq dealing with the
insurgency in 2005 he was like you know
I get it
he’s like imagine if the Chinese
government came in in in sent troops to
America and they were patrolling our
streets and they said hey we’re just
here to help you out don’t worry about
it and then they kick in your neighbor’s
front door they accidentally killed one
of their kids and now you’re in it and
the next thing you know you’re setting
off IEDs you know on convoys out on i-87
so I mean you just have to look at it
from their perspective so of course
there was an insurgency you know from
you know I love that story that Robert
McNamara told about when he went to
visit Vietnam after the war and the
Vietnamese general he met with was like
you were trying to turn Vietnam into an
American colony and he’s like no no that
was absolutely not what we were trying
to do there but from a Vietnamese
perspective there was what at the height
there was like hundreds of thousands of
American troops in South Vietnam
if that’s not colonialism what is no
doubt I mean you can see no doubt from
their perspective yeah yeah but that was
not what we were trying to accomplish
there so I think those nuances are
something I tried to capture in this
book and explain you know all the good
and all of the bad and I also wrote it
for the the perspective of the 18 year
old kid who’s in my position when I was
his age thinking of joining the military
I want there to be some actual content
in this book I talked about the mistakes
I made you know things like a friendly
fire incident because when that kid
who’s thinking about joining the
military reads the book I want there to
be like some practical hands-on lessons
that they can take away from that and
apply to their own military career and
hopefully avoid some of the things I got
into well first of all again thank you
for your service I simply went as a 63
Bravo you when I became a Special Forces
Ranger you went to war you protected
this country you put your life on the
line and I personally thank you for
doing that for those of you that are
military people a lot of people that
followed by atemi you know you there’s a
lot of Pro military guy
click on a link below to order his book
and it’ll be coming out again April 23rd
depending on when you see this readers
book you can send him a tweet as well I
know he’s on Twitter we’ll put his
handle over here mine’s over here I’m
actually curious to know what you took
away from today sit down that we have
with Jack Murphy we want to hear from
you on Twitter send Anna send us a
message with that being said buddy
thanks so much for joining us thank you
so much and happily and again it’s
really rare that you get to do these
long-form interviews so I really
appreciate the opportunity I appreciate
you being open to it and actually
sharing your story and your testimony with us truly thank you
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